Vegan (alt.food.vegan) This newsgroup exists to share ideas and issues of concern among vegans. We are always happy to share our recipes- perhaps especially with omnivores who are simply curious- or even better, accomodating a vegan guest for a meal!

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  #61 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-01-2005, 02:21 AM
rick etter
 
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"Scented Nectar" wrote in message
...
"rick etter" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Scented Nectar" wrote in message
...
I know that the farmer killed less animals then they
would have for the same poundage of pork or
poultry, etc.
=====================
Let's see the proof of your claims, killer. You never have, and
never will
be able to prove your delusions.

I've already proven this point. Read my previous posts
in many, many threads.

================
I have read your posts. Many, many of them. Not one of them has ever
provided any proof of the claims you make. Repeating your claims

doesn't
constitute proof, killer. Now, provide proof that your claims are

valid,
hypocrite.


If I have to repeat the stuff you don't understand any
more times, I'll be overly repetitious.

=====================
ROTFLMAO What a hoot! The next time you post any 'proof' of your
delusions will be the *first* time, killer.


So sorry, tricky
Dicky, I'm not proving it again.

====================
You haven't proven it once, yet hypocrite.




--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.
Irony, hypocrisy, stupidity, and ignorance all in one big bundle...




  #62 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-01-2005, 02:25 AM
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
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"Scented Nectar" wrote in message
...
I know that the farmer killed less animals then they
would have for the same poundage of pork or
poultry, etc.


So if a person was able to access meat, fish or fowl from a source

that they
believe killed even fewer animals than commercial produce that would

be even
better, right?


Does this source have the potential of extinction, like wild
game, or is it a meat that has a fringe following like free
range organic beef? The first I wouldn't even recommend
to a meat eater, and the second is bought by meat eating
friends already.

Of course the best alternative is to just stick to vegetarian
food.

==================
And your proof of that is?
\

Takes less resources to produce.
====================
False, and demostratedbly so. It has been proven yto you time and again,
killer.


That means
less collateral deaths, and of course the intentional death.

================
No less intentional than the animals you kill for clean, cheap veggies,
hypocrite. Only you kill more of them...


For a meat eater, your suggestions would be better than
factory farmed, healthwise for the eater. Not so good for
the animal itself. Also, wild game and free range beef
can't satisfy the demand of meat eaters worldwide.

==================
Nice strawman, killer. Your garden plot mythical veganic cannot feed the
world either. You lose, yet again. Because you will never dare compare
your actual diet to somebody elses. All you can do is focus on what you
think everybody else in the world is doing in an attempt to assuage your own
guilt, killer.



There are always vegetarian foods that cause less deaths.
If grown with no cds, it will always be the best of all the foods.

=====================
You don't eat any of that, as it is mythical delusions....




--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.
Irony, hypocrisy, stupidity, and ignorance all in one big bundle...




  #63 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-01-2005, 02:27 AM
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Scented Nectar" wrote in message
...
There are always vegetarian foods that cause less deaths.


In the case I am citing there are only imported, commercially grown

plant
foods available.


Why would you compare the worst of the produce to the
'best' of the meats?

If grown with no cds, it will always be the best of all the foods.


Agreed, but that is not the question I am asking.


Then we agree. What are you asking exactly?
Exactly which foods are you comparing and
why?

==================
Your diet and mine. Two real diets. Not some mythical source that you
don't use, and never will. Why can't you discuss anything except the rst of
the world, hypocrite? Have you realized that you own attempts are falling
far short of your claims?




--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.
Irony, hypocrisy, stupidity, and ignorance all in one big bundle...



  #64 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-01-2005, 02:27 AM
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Scented Nectar" wrote in message
...
There are always vegetarian foods that cause less deaths.


In the case I am citing there are only imported, commercially grown

plant
foods available.


Why would you compare the worst of the produce to the
'best' of the meats?

If grown with no cds, it will always be the best of all the foods.


Agreed, but that is not the question I am asking.


Then we agree. What are you asking exactly?
Exactly which foods are you comparing and
why?

==================
Your diet and mine. Two real diets. Not some mythical source that you
don't use, and never will. Why can't you discuss anything except the rst of
the world, hypocrite? Have you realized that you own attempts are falling
far short of your claims?




--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.
Irony, hypocrisy, stupidity, and ignorance all in one big bundle...



  #65 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-01-2005, 02:42 AM
Scented Nectar
 
Posts: n/a
Default

If grown with no cds, it will always be the best of all the
foods.

Agreed, but that is not the question I am asking.


Then we agree. What are you asking exactly?
Exactly which foods are you comparing and
why?

==================
Your diet and mine. Two real diets. Not some mythical source that

you
don't use, and never will. Why can't you discuss anything except the

rst of
the world, hypocrite? Have you realized that you own attempts are

falling
far short of your claims?



Um, Ricky, I was asking Dutch. But despite that,
I'll not compare my personal diet to anyone else's.
You can't tell if the other person is telling the truth.
It also means you have to jot down everything you
eat for a week or however long. That sounds like
a royal pain. Also, such a comparison assumes
that the sample compared is indicative of the
person's diet, when in fact, that can change
drastically from week to week.


--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.




  #66 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-01-2005, 02:42 AM
Scented Nectar
 
Posts: n/a
Default

If grown with no cds, it will always be the best of all the
foods.

Agreed, but that is not the question I am asking.


Then we agree. What are you asking exactly?
Exactly which foods are you comparing and
why?

==================
Your diet and mine. Two real diets. Not some mythical source that

you
don't use, and never will. Why can't you discuss anything except the

rst of
the world, hypocrite? Have you realized that you own attempts are

falling
far short of your claims?



Um, Ricky, I was asking Dutch. But despite that,
I'll not compare my personal diet to anyone else's.
You can't tell if the other person is telling the truth.
It also means you have to jot down everything you
eat for a week or however long. That sounds like
a royal pain. Also, such a comparison assumes
that the sample compared is indicative of the
person's diet, when in fact, that can change
drastically from week to week.


--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.


  #67 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-01-2005, 05:16 AM
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Scented Nectar" wrote in message
...
If grown with no cds, it will always be the best of all the

foods.

Agreed, but that is not the question I am asking.

Then we agree. What are you asking exactly?
Exactly which foods are you comparing and
why?

==================
Your diet and mine. Two real diets. Not some mythical source that

you
don't use, and never will. Why can't you discuss anything except the

rst of
the world, hypocrite? Have you realized that you own attempts are

falling
far short of your claims?



Um, Ricky, I was asking Dutch. But despite that,
I'll not compare my personal diet to anyone else's.

=====================
Of course you won't, it would lay bare the hypocrisy you spew every post...


You can't tell if the other person is telling the truth.

================
We already know that you aren't, killer.


It also means you have to jot down everything you
eat for a week or however long. That sounds like
a royal pain. Also, such a comparison assumes
that the sample compared is indicative of the
person's diet, when in fact, that can change
drastically from week to week.

=====================
Not if you were really focused on the claims you keep making about caring
about animals. But then, every inane post you make to usenet proves that
animals are of no concern to you.



--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.
Irony, hypocrisy, stupidity, and ignorance all in one big bundle...



  #68 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-01-2005, 05:44 AM
Dutch
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Scented Nectar" wrote

There are always vegetarian foods that cause less deaths.


In the case I am citing there are only imported, commercially grown

plant
foods available.


Why would you compare the worst of the produce to the
'best' of the meats?


Why not? It is a choice consumers face.

If grown with no cds, it will always be the best of all the foods.


Agreed, but that is not the question I am asking.


Then we agree. What are you asking exactly?


Simply put, is it ALWAYS better to try to reduce animal deaths, or is only
better when it is done via the vegan formula, eliminating animal products?

Exactly which foods are you comparing and
why?


The foods are commercially grown and manufactured rice, beans, vegetables
and fruit compared to beef grown in a local community, pastured and not
finished with grain.

The reason I am doing it is that I am using your refusal to make the
comparison as an illustration of vegetarian narrow-mindedness, or
alternately, you could view it as an opportunity to prove me wrong about
that by acknowledging that my proposition is a plausible one. By doing so
you also release yourself from the fantasy that the vegan drive to eliminate
animal products from one's diet is a foolproof way to reduce animal deaths.


  #69 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-01-2005, 05:44 AM
Dutch
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Scented Nectar" wrote

There are always vegetarian foods that cause less deaths.


In the case I am citing there are only imported, commercially grown

plant
foods available.


Why would you compare the worst of the produce to the
'best' of the meats?


Why not? It is a choice consumers face.

If grown with no cds, it will always be the best of all the foods.


Agreed, but that is not the question I am asking.


Then we agree. What are you asking exactly?


Simply put, is it ALWAYS better to try to reduce animal deaths, or is only
better when it is done via the vegan formula, eliminating animal products?

Exactly which foods are you comparing and
why?


The foods are commercially grown and manufactured rice, beans, vegetables
and fruit compared to beef grown in a local community, pastured and not
finished with grain.

The reason I am doing it is that I am using your refusal to make the
comparison as an illustration of vegetarian narrow-mindedness, or
alternately, you could view it as an opportunity to prove me wrong about
that by acknowledging that my proposition is a plausible one. By doing so
you also release yourself from the fantasy that the vegan drive to eliminate
animal products from one's diet is a foolproof way to reduce animal deaths.


  #70 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-01-2005, 10:20 AM
Rubystars
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"usual suspect" wrote in message
snip
Carrageanan is what gives soy milk and a lot of other soy and dairy
products (fat free yogurt, for example) a creamy mouthfeel. Soy milk
without carrageanan is as vile as rice milk, and it has a nasty soy
aftertaste to boot.


Offbrand soy milk has a bit of that beany aftertaste, I noticed. If
Carageenan helps so much I have to wonder why they don't add it to the other
"milks."

-Rubystars




  #71 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-01-2005, 10:20 AM
Rubystars
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"usual suspect" wrote in message
snip
Carrageanan is what gives soy milk and a lot of other soy and dairy
products (fat free yogurt, for example) a creamy mouthfeel. Soy milk
without carrageanan is as vile as rice milk, and it has a nasty soy
aftertaste to boot.


Offbrand soy milk has a bit of that beany aftertaste, I noticed. If
Carageenan helps so much I have to wonder why they don't add it to the other
"milks."

-Rubystars


  #72 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-01-2005, 03:10 PM
Scented Nectar
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Why would you compare the worst of the produce to the
'best' of the meats?


Why not? It is a choice consumers face.


No it's not

If grown with no cds, it will always be the best of all the

foods.

Agreed, but that is not the question I am asking.


Then we agree. What are you asking exactly?


Simply put, is it ALWAYS better to try to reduce animal deaths, or is

only
better when it is done via the vegan formula, eliminating animal

products?

I personally think it's best to reduce what deaths
you reasonably can, and to do it while following
the 'formula' of eliminating animal products. The
intentional death involved in meat makes eating
meat a very repusive choice. Even if a fringe
meat has a total of less deaths than a 'worst of
the produce' food, the intentional death is very
in your face (pun intended) when you eat meat.
The act of eating dead body parts is too
repulsive to do. Some people become vegetarian
for no other reason in fact. It's not always about
animal rights. There's health and other reasons
people go vegetarian. Going vegan reduces
animal deaths a great deal so it's a good choice
if ones goal is that.

Exactly which foods are you comparing and
why?


The foods are commercially grown and manufactured rice, beans,

vegetables
and fruit compared to beef grown in a local community, pastured and

not
finished with grain.


I don't want to compare the best of meats to the
worst of veggies. I wouldn't want to compare the
best of veggies to the worst of meats either. Both
are apples and oranges.

The reason I am doing it is that I am using your refusal to make the
comparison as an illustration of vegetarian narrow-mindedness, or
alternately, you could view it as an opportunity to prove me wrong

about
that by acknowledging that my proposition is a plausible one. By doing

so
you also release yourself from the fantasy that the vegan drive to

eliminate
animal products from one's diet is a foolproof way to reduce animal

deaths.

Who ever claimed it's foolproof? In overall averages it's better, but
not
foolproof.



  #73 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-01-2005, 03:10 PM
Scented Nectar
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Why would you compare the worst of the produce to the
'best' of the meats?


Why not? It is a choice consumers face.


No it's not

If grown with no cds, it will always be the best of all the

foods.

Agreed, but that is not the question I am asking.


Then we agree. What are you asking exactly?


Simply put, is it ALWAYS better to try to reduce animal deaths, or is

only
better when it is done via the vegan formula, eliminating animal

products?

I personally think it's best to reduce what deaths
you reasonably can, and to do it while following
the 'formula' of eliminating animal products. The
intentional death involved in meat makes eating
meat a very repusive choice. Even if a fringe
meat has a total of less deaths than a 'worst of
the produce' food, the intentional death is very
in your face (pun intended) when you eat meat.
The act of eating dead body parts is too
repulsive to do. Some people become vegetarian
for no other reason in fact. It's not always about
animal rights. There's health and other reasons
people go vegetarian. Going vegan reduces
animal deaths a great deal so it's a good choice
if ones goal is that.

Exactly which foods are you comparing and
why?


The foods are commercially grown and manufactured rice, beans,

vegetables
and fruit compared to beef grown in a local community, pastured and

not
finished with grain.


I don't want to compare the best of meats to the
worst of veggies. I wouldn't want to compare the
best of veggies to the worst of meats either. Both
are apples and oranges.

The reason I am doing it is that I am using your refusal to make the
comparison as an illustration of vegetarian narrow-mindedness, or
alternately, you could view it as an opportunity to prove me wrong

about
that by acknowledging that my proposition is a plausible one. By doing

so
you also release yourself from the fantasy that the vegan drive to

eliminate
animal products from one's diet is a foolproof way to reduce animal

deaths.

Who ever claimed it's foolproof? In overall averages it's better, but
not
foolproof.



  #74 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-01-2005, 05:55 PM
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Scented Nectar wrote:
As it appears that (at least unfermented) soya is best
avoided

In moderation, or consumed on occasion, it's not going to kill you.

Twit.


Glad you agree.


Have you taken to editing,


No editing was required.

Soya milk is definately more 'creamy' than
starchy.


The one I used for this recipe contained only
soy beans and water. No thickeners or sugar
like some do. I never tried it on its own though,
but it was great in the soup.


You wouldn't know the difference. The creaminess or smoothness of the
soup was most likely because of the potatoes, which are very starchy and
thicken cooking liquids, and cauliflower, which has a very smooth,
creamy mouthfeel when pureed. Soy milk isn't particularly creamy or
starchy, unless it has carrageanan or another thickening agent in it.

The soup's texture might change a bit


Entirely undetectable to an unenlightened palate like yours.


How could you possibly know my palette?


By reviewing your recipes. Major league ick.

If substituting a different broth than the one I used,
try to get one heavy on the celery onion and garlic.


What do you consider heavy?


Ok, lesson for the cooking-challenged.


Look who's talking! I sure as hell don't need lessons in anything from
some urban hag who thinks spaghetti sauce and beans is chili. Geeeeez.

For an example of real cuisine, contrasted with your mushy boiled and
pureed vegetables, consider some of my own recipes.

Tamales: http://tinyurl.com/6gop2
Meatless meat balls: http://tinyurl.com/4z7tf
Spicy lentil soup: http://tinyurl.com/6yuqa
Dirty rice: http://tinyurl.com/66v9l

Heavy in this case meaning that those are the primary
flavours of the broth.


In that case, I'd go *easy* on the celery and add more carrots. You can
have too much celery in a dish, especially in a stock.
  #75 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-01-2005, 06:14 PM
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Scented Nectar wrote:
Good. None for you. And you won't mind then.


You're doing me a favor.


I'm getting the feeling that you wouldn't like
any recipe I post.


Especially if in contains beans and spaghetti sauce and you try to pass
it off as chili. Call it what it is: Skunky's Spaghetti Sauce and Beans.

I've got an alibi. I wasn't even in the province they
were grown in.


That's not an alibi. You still bought them knowing the farmer was
killing animals. That makes you a hypocrite.


I know


No, Skunky, you don't. You ASSUME. You assume WRONGLY.

that the farmer killed less animals then they
would have for the same poundage of pork or
poultry, etc.


Ipse dixit. The death of one pig provides a lot of meals. Your soy milk
is a very wasteful product -- a lot of soybeans go into it for what you
get out, and soy is a high-CD cro: a lot of animal deaths, no meals.

They just didn't. Turns out the soup was delicious.
Me and a friend polished off the whole potload.


Gluttons.


No, just very happy munchies time. Gluttony would
be doing it all the time.


Gluttony pertains to overindulgence, period. There is no timeframe
required for something to be called gluttony. You don't have to be like
Dreck (aka Retard) to be a fat-assed glutton, but he's mastered it (not
a good thing at all).

None left for you


Thank goodness.


I could have posted ANY recipe and you'd find something
against it.


Your recipes are, for the most part, offensive to good taste. Post a
good one and you'll be praised for it.


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