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  #46 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 13-01-2005, 08:00 PM
Scented Nectar
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I know that the farmer killed less animals then they
would have for the same poundage of pork or
poultry, etc.

=====================
Let's see the proof of your claims, killer. You never have, and

never will
be able to prove your delusions.


I've already proven this point. Read my previous posts
in many, many threads.

You trolls are just going to have to
accept that I am content with reduction of
deaths,

==================
No, you are content with your delusions of causes fewer. You haven't

proven
that you have done anything to save animals, killer.


I've already proven this point. Read my previous posts
in many, many threads.

and that I realize that it's not within
my powers to eliminate them completely.
No hypocrasy

=================
Yes, magnitudes of hypocrisy, killer. All you follow is your simple

rule
for your simple mind, despite being shown that it doesn't hold any

water.
But even at that, you do *nothing* to choose between foods that you do

eat,
thus making your claims of caring false and hypocritical.


You've not shown it not to hold water. You've proven
nothing to me. You've convinced me of nothing.




--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.







  #47 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 13-01-2005, 10:33 PM
Scented Nectar
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hahaha. When did you start stipulating which produce you consume is
organic?


Organic was brought up earlier in the thread. I was quite happy
to find the organic broccoli and cauliflower.


Interestingly, both are on the Environmental Working Group's list of
"safest" produce from the standpoint of pesticide residues. Those are
two examples where buying organic is a complete waste of money.

http://www.foodnews.org/reportcard.php


Organic varieties of tomato ketchup contain three times
as much of a cancer-fighting chemical called lycopene as
non-organic brands.

In the US, tomato ketchup comes in purple and green
varieties as well as the traditional red. Betty Ishida and
Mary Chapman at the Agricultural Research Service in
Albany, California, US, wondered if the colouring might
be indicative of low levels of lycopene, the pigment that
makes tomatoes red.

The chemical has been shown to help protect against
breast, pancreatic, prostate and intestinal cancer,
especially when eaten with fatty foods. There is also
evidence that lycopene can reduce the risk of heart
attacks (New Scientist print edition, 23 December 2000).

The researchers tested lycopene levels and antioxidant
activity in 13 ketchup brands: six popular ones, three
organic, two store brands and two from fast-food chains.
Purple and green ketchups had a similar lycopene
content to their plain red counterparts.

But organic ketchups excelled, with one brand containing
183 micrograms of lycopene per gram of ketchup, about
five times as much per weight as a tomato. Non-organic
brands averaged 100 micrograms per gram, with one
fast-food sample containing just 60 micrograms per gram.

If you want high lycopene levels, says Ishida, the rule of
thumb is to pick the darkest red ketchup.

Journal reference: Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry (DOI:
10.1021/jf0401540)

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6844





--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.


  #48 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 13-01-2005, 10:33 PM
Scented Nectar
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hahaha. When did you start stipulating which produce you consume is
organic?


Organic was brought up earlier in the thread. I was quite happy
to find the organic broccoli and cauliflower.


Interestingly, both are on the Environmental Working Group's list of
"safest" produce from the standpoint of pesticide residues. Those are
two examples where buying organic is a complete waste of money.

http://www.foodnews.org/reportcard.php


Organic varieties of tomato ketchup contain three times
as much of a cancer-fighting chemical called lycopene as
non-organic brands.

In the US, tomato ketchup comes in purple and green
varieties as well as the traditional red. Betty Ishida and
Mary Chapman at the Agricultural Research Service in
Albany, California, US, wondered if the colouring might
be indicative of low levels of lycopene, the pigment that
makes tomatoes red.

The chemical has been shown to help protect against
breast, pancreatic, prostate and intestinal cancer,
especially when eaten with fatty foods. There is also
evidence that lycopene can reduce the risk of heart
attacks (New Scientist print edition, 23 December 2000).

The researchers tested lycopene levels and antioxidant
activity in 13 ketchup brands: six popular ones, three
organic, two store brands and two from fast-food chains.
Purple and green ketchups had a similar lycopene
content to their plain red counterparts.

But organic ketchups excelled, with one brand containing
183 micrograms of lycopene per gram of ketchup, about
five times as much per weight as a tomato. Non-organic
brands averaged 100 micrograms per gram, with one
fast-food sample containing just 60 micrograms per gram.

If you want high lycopene levels, says Ishida, the rule of
thumb is to pick the darkest red ketchup.

Journal reference: Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry (DOI:
10.1021/jf0401540)

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6844





--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.


  #49 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 13-01-2005, 11:15 PM
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Scented Nectar" wrote in message
...
I know that the farmer killed less animals then they
would have for the same poundage of pork or
poultry, etc.

=====================
Let's see the proof of your claims, killer. You never have, and

never will
be able to prove your delusions.


I've already proven this point. Read my previous posts
in many, many threads.

================
I have read your posts. Many, many of them. Not one of them has ever
provided any proof of the claims you make. Repeating your claims doesn't
constitute proof, killer. Now, provide proof that your claims are valid,
hypocrite.





You trolls are just going to have to
accept that I am content with reduction of
deaths,

==================
No, you are content with your delusions of causes fewer. You haven't

proven
that you have done anything to save animals, killer.


I've already proven this point. Read my previous posts
in many, many threads.

================
I have read your posts. Many, many of them. Not one of them has ever
provided any proof of the claims you make. Repeating your claims doesn't
constitute proof, killer. Now, provide proof that your claims are valid,
hypocrite.




and that I realize that it's not within
my powers to eliminate them completely.
No hypocrasy

=================
Yes, magnitudes of hypocrisy, killer. All you follow is your simple

rule
for your simple mind, despite being shown that it doesn't hold any

water.
But even at that, you do *nothing* to choose between foods that you do

eat,
thus making your claims of caring false and hypocritical.


You've not shown it not to hold water. You've proven
nothing to me. You've convinced me of nothing.

====================
Because you snip and run whenever I do post proof, killer. Proof that you
cannot refute, so you delete it.





--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.
Ignoranc, irony, and hypocrisy run amok....







  #50 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 13-01-2005, 11:15 PM
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Scented Nectar" wrote in message
...
I know that the farmer killed less animals then they
would have for the same poundage of pork or
poultry, etc.

=====================
Let's see the proof of your claims, killer. You never have, and

never will
be able to prove your delusions.


I've already proven this point. Read my previous posts
in many, many threads.

================
I have read your posts. Many, many of them. Not one of them has ever
provided any proof of the claims you make. Repeating your claims doesn't
constitute proof, killer. Now, provide proof that your claims are valid,
hypocrite.





You trolls are just going to have to
accept that I am content with reduction of
deaths,

==================
No, you are content with your delusions of causes fewer. You haven't

proven
that you have done anything to save animals, killer.


I've already proven this point. Read my previous posts
in many, many threads.

================
I have read your posts. Many, many of them. Not one of them has ever
provided any proof of the claims you make. Repeating your claims doesn't
constitute proof, killer. Now, provide proof that your claims are valid,
hypocrite.




and that I realize that it's not within
my powers to eliminate them completely.
No hypocrasy

=================
Yes, magnitudes of hypocrisy, killer. All you follow is your simple

rule
for your simple mind, despite being shown that it doesn't hold any

water.
But even at that, you do *nothing* to choose between foods that you do

eat,
thus making your claims of caring false and hypocritical.


You've not shown it not to hold water. You've proven
nothing to me. You've convinced me of nothing.

====================
Because you snip and run whenever I do post proof, killer. Proof that you
cannot refute, so you delete it.





--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.
Ignoranc, irony, and hypocrisy run amok....









  #51 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 13-01-2005, 11:31 PM
Scented Nectar
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"rick etter" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Scented Nectar" wrote in message
...
I know that the farmer killed less animals then they
would have for the same poundage of pork or
poultry, etc.
=====================
Let's see the proof of your claims, killer. You never have, and

never will
be able to prove your delusions.


I've already proven this point. Read my previous posts
in many, many threads.

================
I have read your posts. Many, many of them. Not one of them has ever
provided any proof of the claims you make. Repeating your claims

doesn't
constitute proof, killer. Now, provide proof that your claims are

valid,
hypocrite.


If I have to repeat the stuff you don't understand any
more times, I'll be overly repetitious. So sorry, tricky
Dicky, I'm not proving it again.



--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.


  #52 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-01-2005, 01:20 AM
Dutch
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Scented Nectar" wrote

I know that the farmer killed less animals then they
would have for the same poundage of pork or
poultry, etc.


So if a person was able to access meat, fish or fowl from a source that they
believe killed even fewer animals than commercial produce that would be even
better, right?



  #53 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-01-2005, 01:20 AM
Dutch
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Scented Nectar" wrote

I know that the farmer killed less animals then they
would have for the same poundage of pork or
poultry, etc.


So if a person was able to access meat, fish or fowl from a source that they
believe killed even fewer animals than commercial produce that would be even
better, right?



  #54 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-01-2005, 01:47 AM
Scented Nectar
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I know that the farmer killed less animals then they
would have for the same poundage of pork or
poultry, etc.


So if a person was able to access meat, fish or fowl from a source

that they
believe killed even fewer animals than commercial produce that would

be even
better, right?


Does this source have the potential of extinction, like wild
game, or is it a meat that has a fringe following like free
range organic beef? The first I wouldn't even recommend
to a meat eater, and the second is bought by meat eating
friends already.

Of course the best alternative is to just stick to vegetarian
food. Takes less resources to produce. That means
less collateral deaths, and of course the intentional death.

For a meat eater, your suggestions would be better than
factory farmed, healthwise for the eater. Not so good for
the animal itself. Also, wild game and free range beef
can't satisfy the demand of meat eaters worldwide.

There are always vegetarian foods that cause less deaths.
If grown with no cds, it will always be the best of all the foods.


--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.



  #55 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-01-2005, 01:47 AM
Scented Nectar
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I know that the farmer killed less animals then they
would have for the same poundage of pork or
poultry, etc.


So if a person was able to access meat, fish or fowl from a source

that they
believe killed even fewer animals than commercial produce that would

be even
better, right?


Does this source have the potential of extinction, like wild
game, or is it a meat that has a fringe following like free
range organic beef? The first I wouldn't even recommend
to a meat eater, and the second is bought by meat eating
friends already.

Of course the best alternative is to just stick to vegetarian
food. Takes less resources to produce. That means
less collateral deaths, and of course the intentional death.

For a meat eater, your suggestions would be better than
factory farmed, healthwise for the eater. Not so good for
the animal itself. Also, wild game and free range beef
can't satisfy the demand of meat eaters worldwide.

There are always vegetarian foods that cause less deaths.
If grown with no cds, it will always be the best of all the foods.


--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.





  #56 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-01-2005, 01:47 AM
Scented Nectar
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I know that the farmer killed less animals then they
would have for the same poundage of pork or
poultry, etc.


So if a person was able to access meat, fish or fowl from a source

that they
believe killed even fewer animals than commercial produce that would

be even
better, right?


Does this source have the potential of extinction, like wild
game, or is it a meat that has a fringe following like free
range organic beef? The first I wouldn't even recommend
to a meat eater, and the second is bought by meat eating
friends already.

Of course the best alternative is to just stick to vegetarian
food. Takes less resources to produce. That means
less collateral deaths, and of course the intentional death.

For a meat eater, your suggestions would be better than
factory farmed, healthwise for the eater. Not so good for
the animal itself. Also, wild game and free range beef
can't satisfy the demand of meat eaters worldwide.

There are always vegetarian foods that cause less deaths.
If grown with no cds, it will always be the best of all the foods.


--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.



  #57 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-01-2005, 02:12 AM
Dutch
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Scented Nectar" wrote

I know that the farmer killed less animals then they
would have for the same poundage of pork or
poultry, etc.


So if a person was able to access meat, fish or fowl from a source

that they
believe killed even fewer animals than commercial produce that would

be even
better, right?


Does this source have the potential of extinction, like wild
game, or is it a meat that has a fringe following like free
range organic beef?


No risk of extinction..

The first I wouldn't even recommend
to a meat eater,


Let's just rule out endangered species, OK? Nobody here wants to be killing
them.

and the second is bought by meat eating
friends already.


I'm not talking about anyone's current dietary preferences, I talking about
ANY person who is striving to cause the least amount of animal death and
suffering they possibly can.

Of course the best alternative is to just stick to vegetarian
food. Takes less resources to produce. That means
less collateral deaths, and of course the intentional death.


You are changing the question I posed to you. I stipulated that a person,
according to the best of their ability, evaluated foods available to them
and *determined* that substituting carefully selected meat products, e.g.
hunted, free range or what-have-you, for certain plant products, represents
a net *decrease* in the amount of overall animal suffering caused by their
diet. These are the given parameters for the question.

Now, regardless of their personal preference for food types, would it not be
a better choice for animals overall that they make that choice?

For a meat eater, your suggestions would be better than
factory farmed, healthwise for the eater.


I did not specify whether the person currently had meat in his or her diet
or not, it is not relevant to this particular question.

Not so good for
the animal itself.


Perhaps not for the actual animal being eaten, but remember the question
stipulated that the change in the diet actually caused less animal harm.

Also, wild game and free range beef
can't satisfy the demand of meat eaters worldwide.


Again, not part of the question. I am talking about one person making a
choice about what foods to include in their diet.

There are always vegetarian foods that cause less deaths.


In the case I am citing there are only imported, commercially grown plant
foods available.

If grown with no cds, it will always be the best of all the foods.


Agreed, but that is not the question I am asking.


  #58 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-01-2005, 02:12 AM
Dutch
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Scented Nectar" wrote

I know that the farmer killed less animals then they
would have for the same poundage of pork or
poultry, etc.


So if a person was able to access meat, fish or fowl from a source

that they
believe killed even fewer animals than commercial produce that would

be even
better, right?


Does this source have the potential of extinction, like wild
game, or is it a meat that has a fringe following like free
range organic beef?


No risk of extinction..

The first I wouldn't even recommend
to a meat eater,


Let's just rule out endangered species, OK? Nobody here wants to be killing
them.

and the second is bought by meat eating
friends already.


I'm not talking about anyone's current dietary preferences, I talking about
ANY person who is striving to cause the least amount of animal death and
suffering they possibly can.

Of course the best alternative is to just stick to vegetarian
food. Takes less resources to produce. That means
less collateral deaths, and of course the intentional death.


You are changing the question I posed to you. I stipulated that a person,
according to the best of their ability, evaluated foods available to them
and *determined* that substituting carefully selected meat products, e.g.
hunted, free range or what-have-you, for certain plant products, represents
a net *decrease* in the amount of overall animal suffering caused by their
diet. These are the given parameters for the question.

Now, regardless of their personal preference for food types, would it not be
a better choice for animals overall that they make that choice?

For a meat eater, your suggestions would be better than
factory farmed, healthwise for the eater.


I did not specify whether the person currently had meat in his or her diet
or not, it is not relevant to this particular question.

Not so good for
the animal itself.


Perhaps not for the actual animal being eaten, but remember the question
stipulated that the change in the diet actually caused less animal harm.

Also, wild game and free range beef
can't satisfy the demand of meat eaters worldwide.


Again, not part of the question. I am talking about one person making a
choice about what foods to include in their diet.

There are always vegetarian foods that cause less deaths.


In the case I am citing there are only imported, commercially grown plant
foods available.

If grown with no cds, it will always be the best of all the foods.


Agreed, but that is not the question I am asking.


  #59 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-01-2005, 02:42 AM
Scented Nectar
 
Posts: n/a
Default

There are always vegetarian foods that cause less deaths.

In the case I am citing there are only imported, commercially grown

plant
foods available.


Why would you compare the worst of the produce to the
'best' of the meats?

If grown with no cds, it will always be the best of all the foods.


Agreed, but that is not the question I am asking.


Then we agree. What are you asking exactly?
Exactly which foods are you comparing and
why?


--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.


  #60 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-01-2005, 02:42 AM
Scented Nectar
 
Posts: n/a
Default

There are always vegetarian foods that cause less deaths.

In the case I am citing there are only imported, commercially grown

plant
foods available.


Why would you compare the worst of the produce to the
'best' of the meats?

If grown with no cds, it will always be the best of all the foods.


Agreed, but that is not the question I am asking.


Then we agree. What are you asking exactly?
Exactly which foods are you comparing and
why?


--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.




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