Vegan (alt.food.vegan) This newsgroup exists to share ideas and issues of concern among vegans. We are always happy to share our recipes- perhaps especially with omnivores who are simply curious- or even better, accomodating a vegan guest for a meal!

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  #1486 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-02-2005, 04:33 AM
Dutch
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Ron" wrote in message
...
In article , "Dutch"
wrote:

"Ron" wrote in message
...
In article , "Dutch"
wrote:

I thought you said professionals were dupes and we should just be
locking
them up and throwing away the key. There's that famous Ron
inconsistency
again. Maybe you should attempt to remember what you say on a subject
as
a
reference for next time.

A misdirection of attention. We were discussing your views Dutch.


I explained my views. I do not feel compelled to intervene in a
discussion
engaged in voluntarily between two adults. I find it very odd indeed that
you would imply that I should when you advocate letting anorexics who
plead
for help starve to death. I see Rudy's assault on SN's views as a
possible
ray of hope for her. You are free to allow her to wallow, but don't
presume
that the rest of us must do so.


Please don't confuse our views. I was addressing your reactions as
compared to your stated position. Based on your response here, I should
be verbally abusive to any anorexic that I meet as means to "help" them.


Why not? It might help. If it's true that they are simply putting a game on
then perhaps a little nasty attitude might shame them out of it. If they are
starving to death it's not going to hurt them any more than they're hurting
themself already.

You seem to suggest above that this is what Rudy is doing for SN.


I find it a reasonable interpretation. Of course she must *take* it that way
at some point or it won't work.

My view remains as stated, where some expresses behaviour consistent
with a desire to die, I believe that all people should be supported in
what they want.


What if they want YOUR money, your life?

If you want me to accept your viewpoint that the anorexic has no ability
to control their thoughts, emotions or behaivours then,
institutionalized life until they can demonstrate a cure is certainly a
reasonable response for a society.


Yes, some sort of facility would be helpful. We could play them tapes of
Rudy calling them filthy skanks and you calling them self-indulgent whiners.
That should work up an appetite.



  #1487 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-02-2005, 06:07 AM
Scented Nectar
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I explained my views. I do not feel compelled to intervene in a
discussion
engaged in voluntarily between two adults. I find it very odd indeed

that
you would imply that I should when you advocate letting anorexics who

plead
for help starve to death. I see Rudy's assault on SN's views as a

possible
ray of hope for her. You are free to allow her to wallow, but don't

presume
that the rest of us must do so.



A ray of hope? Are you nuts? His mannerisms and
insulting ways are not a ray of hope. They are more
like glistening waste material.

--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.


  #1488 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-02-2005, 09:25 AM
Ron
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article , "Dutch"
wrote:

"Ron" wrote in message
...
In article , "Dutch"
wrote:

"Ron" wrote in message
...
In article , "Dutch"
wrote:

"Ron" wrote

You've wanted to separate yourself as
a caring individual and me as uncaring one. Is your behaviour
consistent
with that of a caring person. Does a caring person sit back and
follow
along while another they have some sort of social relations with
(ie,
fellow poster) verbally abuses another.

In polite society, silence is sometimes said to indicate
agreement.

What does usenet have to do with polite society?

There is a quite a bit of research on transference on the internet.
It
might interest you.

The common theme seems to be the suspension or disinhibition of
social
practices.

I see. Would an example of that be refusing to remove rec.boats from
one's
newsgroup list after being politely asked to do so?

It could be perceived this way. However, to bow to such
passive-aggressive games as this, Rudy could keep me occupied day and
night trimming headers that he has placed there. I leave it as his
responsibility. The informal social practice of trimming headers
presumes that people are of goodwill and not shit disturbing. Being
morally relativistically, I can adjust my behaviour to suit the
occasion, situation, or event.

I perceive plain vanilla laziness, according to Occam's Razor.


I allow for a certain amount of laziness everyday. That you attribute my
lazy period to this is mistaken, but oh well, what you believe of what I
state as my opinion is relatively rare.


That makes no sense, please review your entries before submitting them.


I would find it helpful if you would clarify what you don't understand
so that I can help you.
  #1489 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-02-2005, 09:39 AM
Ron
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article , "Dutch"
wrote:

"Ron" wrote in message
...
In article , "Dutch"
wrote:

"Ron" wrote in message
...
In article , "Dutch"
wrote:

I thought you said professionals were dupes and we should just be
locking
them up and throwing away the key. There's that famous Ron
inconsistency
again. Maybe you should attempt to remember what you say on a subject
as
a
reference for next time.

A misdirection of attention. We were discussing your views Dutch.

I explained my views. I do not feel compelled to intervene in a
discussion
engaged in voluntarily between two adults. I find it very odd indeed that
you would imply that I should when you advocate letting anorexics who
plead
for help starve to death. I see Rudy's assault on SN's views as a
possible
ray of hope for her. You are free to allow her to wallow, but don't
presume
that the rest of us must do so.


Please don't confuse our views. I was addressing your reactions as
compared to your stated position. Based on your response here, I should
be verbally abusive to any anorexic that I meet as means to "help" them.


Why not? It might help. If it's true that they are simply putting a game on
then perhaps a little nasty attitude might shame them out of it. If they are
starving to death it's not going to hurt them any more than they're hurting
themself already.


Which game are you referring to here? Is the suggestion that an eating
disorder is the game, or that their interactions are a game, or Rudy's
involvement with his posts direct at SN are part of a game?

This however doesn't remove responsibility for you position, or more
correctly to be considered an honest and intellectually honest
individual. If the claim is that vegans are eating disordered, my
question was quite clear: is this how you view those who you have deemed
medically ill should be treated in the community?

You seem to suggest above that this is what Rudy is doing for SN.


I find it a reasonable interpretation. Of course she must *take* it that way
at some point or it won't work.


I think then we now have a solution to eating "disorders". We can now
establish treatment programs where people come in for regular doses of
verbal abuse. I think we should then petition the medical community to
incorporate expressions such as "****hair" and "****wit" into their
bedside manner.

My view remains as stated, where some expresses behaviour consistent
with a desire to die, I believe that all people should be supported in
what they want.


What if they want YOUR money, your life?


That's the beauty of being morally bankrupt, amoral and morally
relativistic. I can support whatever other wants so long as it doesn't
interfere in what I want.

If you want me to accept your viewpoint that the anorexic has no ability
to control their thoughts, emotions or behaivours then,
institutionalized life until they can demonstrate a cure is certainly a
reasonable response for a society.


Yes, some sort of facility would be helpful. We could play them tapes of
Rudy calling them filthy skanks and you calling them self-indulgent whiners.
That should work up an appetite.


You used these terms. I used the term passive-aggressive which refers to
an inability to manage one's anger. One can coddle the passive
aggressive, or the passive aggressive can choose to learn ways to become
assertive as one possible solution. The passive aggressive (anorexic)
could also be honest. The anorexic does what they do because they want
to and because they like or derive some happiness from their choices.
I've mentioned previously the paradoxical theory of change. Until the
anorexic can be honest with who they are and what they do they seal
their own fate. A consistent and persistent desire to be dishonest about
the fact that they are starving themselves and to die means that are
just dragging the rest of down with them.
  #1490 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-02-2005, 08:39 PM
Dutch
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Scented Nectar" wrote
I explained my views. I do not feel compelled to intervene in a

discussion
engaged in voluntarily between two adults. I find it very odd indeed

that
you would imply that I should when you advocate letting anorexics who

plead
for help starve to death. I see Rudy's assault on SN's views as a

possible
ray of hope for her. You are free to allow her to wallow, but don't

presume
that the rest of us must do so.



A ray of hope? Are you nuts? His mannerisms and
insulting ways are not a ray of hope. They are more
like glistening waste material.


Ever heard of a diamond ring being found inside a turd?




  #1491 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-02-2005, 08:54 PM
Dutch
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Ron" wrote

I allow for a certain amount of laziness everyday. That you attribute

my
lazy period to this is mistaken, but oh well, what you believe of what

I
state as my opinion is relatively rare.


That makes no sense, please review your entries before submitting them.


I would find it helpful if you would clarify what you don't understand
so that I can help you.


"what you believe of what I state as my opinion is relatively rare."




  #1492 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-02-2005, 09:12 PM
Scented Nectar
 
Posts: n/a
Default

A ray of hope? Are you nuts? His mannerisms and
insulting ways are not a ray of hope. They are more
like glistening waste material.


Ever heard of a diamond ring being found inside a turd?


I doubt you're a diamond under all that turd.

--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.



  #1493 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-02-2005, 10:39 PM
Dutch
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Scented Nectar" wrote

A ray of hope? Are you nuts? His mannerisms and
insulting ways are not a ray of hope. They are more
like glistening waste material.


Ever heard of a diamond ring being found inside a turd?


I doubt you're a diamond under all that turd.


I realize that you doubt. You don't believe that I have altruistic motives.


  #1494 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-02-2005, 10:53 PM
Scented Nectar
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I doubt you're a diamond under all that turd.

I realize that you doubt. You don't believe that I have altruistic

motives.

You have annoyance motives. You like to
**** people off. If you were altruistic in the
slightest, you would come across as a nicer
person.


--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.





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