Vegan (alt.food.vegan) This newsgroup exists to share ideas and issues of concern among vegans. We are always happy to share our recipes- perhaps especially with omnivores who are simply curious- or even better, accomodating a vegan guest for a meal!

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 18-12-2004, 08:53 PM
Kay
 
Posts: n/a
Default Cds and Everyday Life

I have been lurking and lurking and thinking. I have read about the cds
and food processing. I have read some vegans eating eggs, cheese and
animal products. Which I thought was vegetarian.

If being Vegan is avoiding Cds, then of coarse its more than just food.
So I have questions. If anyone wants to answer them I will throw out
a few questions.

Pet Ownership.

Cats - Food = cd I read the ingredients in my cat's food and now
realize that cat food = cd cd cd

Dogs - Food =cd I have read my dog's food ingredients and I realize that
dog's food = cd cd cd

Keeping Aquariums = cd I keep and breed aquarium tropical fish. I know
that if you buy a fish that some are caught which is cd, and some are
raised on fish farms. Fish farms sort the fish on a sorting table and
any that don't seem quite right are put in hole B and the ones that seem
right are put in hole A. Hole B is shredded and fed to hole A's Fish so
thats cd cd cd cd cd cd cd to infinity!

With the Dogs and Cats am I to assume that because they are animals they
deserve meat? and the Cds don't count?

There is also other things on my mind. Like paper. wouldn't paper be a
cd because of chopping down trees and taking away homes of animals?

Or Cars, wouldn't cars cause cds by using gas made from fossil fuels
that cause cds where they drill or oil spills?

If people think that being totally vegan is doing the best you can then
wouldn't that mean picking and choosing parts of vegan? Wouldn't
choosing certain parts (the easy parts) be unfair to say Tropical fish
cds? If everyone does the best they can picking certain things I would
think that as a movement it would be chaos and confusing.

Is being vegan against having pets like peta? Or are they one and the same?

The more I look around my house, city and such it seems to me everything
causes cds. And if that is true, then there is no total vegan only parts
and pieces.

I am not trying to start a fight, but am really wondering these things.
I wonder if a vegan is proud not to eat meat or use any animal products
and own an aquarium or a dog or cat, if they do, isn't it like one
canceling the other out?

Kay

  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 18-12-2004, 09:51 PM
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Kay wrote:
I have been lurking and lurking and thinking. I have read about the cds
and food processing. I have read some vegans eating eggs, cheese and
animal products. Which I thought was vegetarian.


Eggs, cheese, and animal products aren't vegan, nor are they CDs. CD is
short for collateral deaths. Those would be the animals killed (and even
injured) in the normal course of food production. They include all the
rodents, birds, amphibians, reptiles, or even larger mammals like deer,
that are run over, sliced and diced, left vulnerable to predation,
poisoned, etc., during planting, harvesting, transportation, and storage.

Some will argue that such animal deaths are accidental. The fact
remains, though, that commercial food production (including crop
production as well as storage and processing facilities) uses pesticides
-- and those deaths are very much intentional.

Most vegans cavalierly dismiss the entire issue of CDs, either outright
or through a game of moral relativity. I've explained the latter as
"objecting only to the 1001st death" because vegans object to the death
of one cow but seem to have no problem with the first thousand so long
as they don't end up on plates.

If being Vegan is avoiding Cds, then of coarse its more than just food.
So I have questions. If anyone wants to answer them I will throw out a
few questions.

Pet Ownership.

Cats - Food = cd I read the ingredients in my cat's food and now
realize that cat food = cd cd cd

Dogs - Food =cd I have read my dog's food ingredients and I realize that
dog's food = cd cd cd

Keeping Aquariums = cd I keep and breed aquarium tropical fish. I know
that if you buy a fish that some are caught which is cd, and some are
raised on fish farms. Fish farms sort the fish on a sorting table and
any that don't seem quite right are put in hole B and the ones that seem
right are put in hole A. Hole B is shredded and fed to hole A's Fish so
thats cd cd cd cd cd cd cd to infinity!

With the Dogs and Cats am I to assume that because they are animals they
deserve meat? and the Cds don't count?


Actually, some very cruel vegans try to force their peculiar values onto
other species. You can do your own Google search on "vegan pets" and see
how these people abuse their own pets and advocate others to do likewise.

There is also other things on my mind. Like paper. wouldn't paper be a
cd because of chopping down trees and taking away homes of animals?


That's true, but it can also lead to immediate CDs of fledglings and
baby squirrels and other animals nearby. Don't forget to count up all
the skunks, possum, deer, and other animals run over by all the trucks
carrying trees out of the forest for processing, nor all the animals
killed from pollution of paper mills (another Google search: "paper mill
pollution).

Or Cars, wouldn't cars cause cds by using gas made from fossil fuels
that cause cds where they drill or oil spills?


Cars run over animals. They pollute, and the pollution kills animals. Etc.

If people think that being totally vegan is doing the best you can then
wouldn't that mean picking and choosing parts of vegan?


Being vegan does nothing to benefit animals or protect animal welfare.
It means more animals die needlessly because, with respect to diet
anyway, more animals are killed than are ever eaten. Many animals are
killed due to production of a field of grain or legumes. If one eats
meat, otoh, the death of one animal feeds many people. One professor,
Steven Davis formerly of Oregon State University, concluded that what a
diet that causes the least harm to animals would consist of grazed
(rather than grain-fed) meat and locally-grown produce; one would also
avoid or minimize use of grains and legumes.

Wouldn't
choosing certain parts (the easy parts) be unfair to say Tropical fish
cds? If everyone does the best they can picking certain things I would
think that as a movement it would be chaos and confusing.


All that picking and choosing should tell you a lot about a group of
people who are best known for making categorical statements about their
own moral superiority. It shows them to be rank hypocrites.

Is being vegan against having pets like peta? Or are they one and the same?


Many vegans refuse to use words like "pets" because it demonstrates
ownership, slavery, etc. Vegans and other animal rights activists are
the loons who coined the more politically-correct term "animal
companion." You'll find a range of thought on the issue among vegans and
ARAs, with some thinking the idea of having pets (regardless of what
they're called) as a social ill and some thinking it's mutually
beneficial. And as noted above, you'll find many who think it's laudable
to force a peculiar human diet onto another species for which it's
entirely foreign. It's nothing but misguided bullying of the natural order.

The more I look around my house, city and such it seems to me everything
causes cds. And if that is true, then there is no total vegan only parts
and pieces.


That's because veganism is a big, stinkin' load crap. There are valid
reasons for having a vegetarian diet, particularly a well-planned one.
But the self-righteousness and sanctimony of veganism are a false piety,
and for many more reasons than the ones you've rightly noted.

I am not trying to start a fight, but am really wondering these things.
I wonder if a vegan is proud not to eat meat or use any animal products
and own an aquarium or a dog or cat, if they do, isn't it like one
canceling the other out?


Yes, and you're too sharp to ever be a vegan.
  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 18-12-2004, 09:51 PM
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Kay wrote:
I have been lurking and lurking and thinking. I have read about the cds
and food processing. I have read some vegans eating eggs, cheese and
animal products. Which I thought was vegetarian.


Eggs, cheese, and animal products aren't vegan, nor are they CDs. CD is
short for collateral deaths. Those would be the animals killed (and even
injured) in the normal course of food production. They include all the
rodents, birds, amphibians, reptiles, or even larger mammals like deer,
that are run over, sliced and diced, left vulnerable to predation,
poisoned, etc., during planting, harvesting, transportation, and storage.

Some will argue that such animal deaths are accidental. The fact
remains, though, that commercial food production (including crop
production as well as storage and processing facilities) uses pesticides
-- and those deaths are very much intentional.

Most vegans cavalierly dismiss the entire issue of CDs, either outright
or through a game of moral relativity. I've explained the latter as
"objecting only to the 1001st death" because vegans object to the death
of one cow but seem to have no problem with the first thousand so long
as they don't end up on plates.

If being Vegan is avoiding Cds, then of coarse its more than just food.
So I have questions. If anyone wants to answer them I will throw out a
few questions.

Pet Ownership.

Cats - Food = cd I read the ingredients in my cat's food and now
realize that cat food = cd cd cd

Dogs - Food =cd I have read my dog's food ingredients and I realize that
dog's food = cd cd cd

Keeping Aquariums = cd I keep and breed aquarium tropical fish. I know
that if you buy a fish that some are caught which is cd, and some are
raised on fish farms. Fish farms sort the fish on a sorting table and
any that don't seem quite right are put in hole B and the ones that seem
right are put in hole A. Hole B is shredded and fed to hole A's Fish so
thats cd cd cd cd cd cd cd to infinity!

With the Dogs and Cats am I to assume that because they are animals they
deserve meat? and the Cds don't count?


Actually, some very cruel vegans try to force their peculiar values onto
other species. You can do your own Google search on "vegan pets" and see
how these people abuse their own pets and advocate others to do likewise.

There is also other things on my mind. Like paper. wouldn't paper be a
cd because of chopping down trees and taking away homes of animals?


That's true, but it can also lead to immediate CDs of fledglings and
baby squirrels and other animals nearby. Don't forget to count up all
the skunks, possum, deer, and other animals run over by all the trucks
carrying trees out of the forest for processing, nor all the animals
killed from pollution of paper mills (another Google search: "paper mill
pollution).

Or Cars, wouldn't cars cause cds by using gas made from fossil fuels
that cause cds where they drill or oil spills?


Cars run over animals. They pollute, and the pollution kills animals. Etc.

If people think that being totally vegan is doing the best you can then
wouldn't that mean picking and choosing parts of vegan?


Being vegan does nothing to benefit animals or protect animal welfare.
It means more animals die needlessly because, with respect to diet
anyway, more animals are killed than are ever eaten. Many animals are
killed due to production of a field of grain or legumes. If one eats
meat, otoh, the death of one animal feeds many people. One professor,
Steven Davis formerly of Oregon State University, concluded that what a
diet that causes the least harm to animals would consist of grazed
(rather than grain-fed) meat and locally-grown produce; one would also
avoid or minimize use of grains and legumes.

Wouldn't
choosing certain parts (the easy parts) be unfair to say Tropical fish
cds? If everyone does the best they can picking certain things I would
think that as a movement it would be chaos and confusing.


All that picking and choosing should tell you a lot about a group of
people who are best known for making categorical statements about their
own moral superiority. It shows them to be rank hypocrites.

Is being vegan against having pets like peta? Or are they one and the same?


Many vegans refuse to use words like "pets" because it demonstrates
ownership, slavery, etc. Vegans and other animal rights activists are
the loons who coined the more politically-correct term "animal
companion." You'll find a range of thought on the issue among vegans and
ARAs, with some thinking the idea of having pets (regardless of what
they're called) as a social ill and some thinking it's mutually
beneficial. And as noted above, you'll find many who think it's laudable
to force a peculiar human diet onto another species for which it's
entirely foreign. It's nothing but misguided bullying of the natural order.

The more I look around my house, city and such it seems to me everything
causes cds. And if that is true, then there is no total vegan only parts
and pieces.


That's because veganism is a big, stinkin' load crap. There are valid
reasons for having a vegetarian diet, particularly a well-planned one.
But the self-righteousness and sanctimony of veganism are a false piety,
and for many more reasons than the ones you've rightly noted.

I am not trying to start a fight, but am really wondering these things.
I wonder if a vegan is proud not to eat meat or use any animal products
and own an aquarium or a dog or cat, if they do, isn't it like one
canceling the other out?


Yes, and you're too sharp to ever be a vegan.
  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 19-12-2004, 05:40 AM
Kay
 
Posts: n/a
Default




Yes, and you're too sharp to ever be a vegan.


Thank you! For the compliment, and answering my post. I have been
reading for a few months now and I think you make sense and I see others
explaining veganism contradicting. I came here eager to learn about it
and I'm glad you guys are here. I think its important to see all sides
of an issue.

Kay
  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 19-12-2004, 05:40 AM
Kay
 
Posts: n/a
Default




Yes, and you're too sharp to ever be a vegan.


Thank you! For the compliment, and answering my post. I have been
reading for a few months now and I think you make sense and I see others
explaining veganism contradicting. I came here eager to learn about it
and I'm glad you guys are here. I think its important to see all sides
of an issue.

Kay


  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 19-12-2004, 07:54 PM
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 19:53:19 GMT, Kay wrote:

I have been lurking and lurking and thinking.


That last part is unusual. Much of what people want to "teach"
around here, is what *not!* to think about.

I have read about the cds
and food processing.


· Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
What they try to avoid are products which provide life
(and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
to avoid the following in order to be successful:

Tires, Surgical sutures, Matches, Soaps, Photographic film,
Cosmetics, Shaving cream, Paints, Candles, Crayon/Chalk,
Toothpaste, Deodorants, Mouthwash, Paper, Upholstery,
Floor waxes, Glass, Water Filters, Rubber, Fertilizer,
Antifreeze, Ceramics, Insecticides, Insulation, Linoleum,
Plastic, Textiles, Blood factors, Collagen, Heparin, Insulin,
Pancreatin, Thrombin, Vasopressin, Vitamin B-12, Asphalt,
auto and jet lubricants, outboard engine oil, high-performance
greases, brake fluid, contact-lens care products, glues for paper
and cardboard cartons, bookbinding glue, clarification of wines,
Hemostats, sunscreens and sunblocks, dental floss, hairspray,
inks, PVC Explosives, Solvents, Industrial Oils, Industrial Lubricants,
Stearic Acid, Biodegradable Detergents, Herbicides, Syringes,
Gelatin Capsules, Bandage Strips, Combs and Toothbrushes,
Emery Boards and Cloth, Adhesive Tape, Laminated Wood Products,
Plywood and Paneling, Wallpaper and Wallpaper Paste, Cellophane
Wrap and Tape, Adhesive Tape, Abrasives, Bone Charcoal for High
Grade Steel, Steel Ball Bearings

The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
slaughters, and the animals live and die in it as they do
in any other habitat. They also depend on it for their
lives like the animals in any other habitat. If people
consume animal products from animals they think are
raised in decent ways, they will be promoting life for
more such animals in the future. ·

[...]
If people think that being totally vegan is doing the best you can then
wouldn't that mean picking and choosing parts of vegan? Wouldn't
choosing certain parts (the easy parts) be unfair to say Tropical fish
cds? If everyone does the best they can picking certain things I would
think that as a movement it would be chaos and confusing.

Is being vegan against having pets like peta? Or are they one and the same?


PeTA is an "Animal Rights" group. "ARAs" want to eliminate
domestic animals:
__________________________________________________ _______
[...]
"One generation and out. We have no problem with the extinction of domestic
animals. They are creations of human selective breeding...We have no ethical
obligation to preserve the different breeds of livestock produced through
selective breeding." (Wayne Pacelle, HSUS, former director of the Fund for
Animals, Animal People, May 1993)
[...]
Tom Regan, Animal Rights Author and Philosopher, North Carolina State
University

"It is not larger, cleaner cages that justice demands...but empty cages."
(Regan, The Philosophy of Animal Rights, 1989)

http://www.agcouncil.com/leaders.htm
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
__________________________________________________ _______
[...]
"Pet ownership is an absolutely abysmal situation brought about
by human manipulation." -- Ingrid Newkirk, national director,
People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA), Just Like Us?
Toward a Nation of Animal Rights" (symposium), Harper's, August
1988, p. 50.

"Liberating our language by eliminating the word 'pet' is the
first step... In an ideal society where all exploitation and
oppression has been eliminated, it will be NJARA's policy to
oppose the keeping of animals as 'pets.'" --New Jersey Animal
Rights Alliance, "Should Dogs Be Kept As Pets? NO!" Good Dog!
February 1991, p. 20.

"Let us allow the dog to disappear from our brick and concrete
jungles--from our firesides, from the leather nooses and chains
by which we enslave it." --John Bryant, Fettered Kingdoms: An
Examination of A Changing Ethic (Washington, DC: People for the
Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA), 1982), p. 15.

"The cat, like the dog, must disappear... We should cut the
domestic cat free from our dominance by neutering, neutering, and
more neutering, until our pathetic version of the cat ceases to
exist." --John Bryant, Fettered Kingdoms: An Examination of A
Changing Ethic (Washington, DC: People for the Ethical Treatment
of Animals (PeTA), 1982), p. 15.
[...]
"We are not especially 'interested in' animals. Neither of us had
ever been inordinately fond of dogs, cats, or horses in the way
that many people are. We didn't 'love' animals." --Peter Singer,
Animal Liberation: A New Ethic for Our Treatment of Animals, 2nd
ed. (New York Review of Books, 1990), Preface, p. ii.

"The theory of animal rights simply is not consistent with the
theory of animal welfare... Animal rights means dramatic social
changes for humans and non-humans alike; if our bourgeois values
prevent us from accepting those changes, then we have no right to
call ourselves advocates of animal rights." --Gary Francione,
The Animals' Voice, Vol. 4, No. 2 (undated), pp. 54-55.

"Not only are the philosophies of animal rights and animal
welfare separated by irreconcilable differences... the enactment
of animal welfare measures actually impedes the achievement of
animal rights... Welfare reforms, by their very nature, can only
serve to retard the pace at which animal rights goals are
achieved." --Gary Francione and Tom Regan, "A Movement's Means
Create Its Ends," The Animals' Agenda, January/February 1992,
pp. 40-42.
[...]
http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/~powlesla...ights/pets.txt
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
Animal Welfare is a completely different thing, because it allows
for the animals:
__________________________________________________ _______
AVMA Policy on Animal Welfare and Animal Rights

Animal welfare is a human responsibility that encompasses all aspects
of animal well-being, from proper housing and nutrition to preventive
care, treatment of disease, and when necessary, humane euthanasia.
The AVMA's commitment to animal welfare is unsurpassed.

However, animal welfare and animal rights are not the same. AVMA cannot
endorse the philosophical views and personal values of animal rights
advocates when they are incompatible with the responsible use of animals
for human purposes, such as food and fiber, and for research conducted
to benefit both humans and animals.

http://www.avma.org/policies/animalwelfare.asp
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
__________________________________________________ _______
[...]
As two recent issues of Alternatives in Philanthropy discussed
("Animal Welfare vs. Animal Rights: The Case of PETA," July 1997,
and "The Humane Society of the U.S.: It’s Not about Animal
Shelters," October 1997), animal rights organizations seek to end
traditional uses of animals. By contrast, animal welfare organizations
seek to improve the treatment of animals. Animal lovers who wish
to support animal-interest organizations should keep this distinction in
mind.
[...]
http://www.responsiblewildlifemanage...mal_rights.htm
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
The more I look around my house, city and such it seems to me everything
causes cds. And if that is true, then there is no total vegan only parts
and pieces.


· From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
draining of fields, one meal of soy or rice based product is
likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of meals
derived from grass raised cattle. Grass raised animal products
contribute to less wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
better lives for livestock than soy or rice products. ·

I am not trying to start a fight, but am really wondering these things.
I wonder if a vegan is proud not to eat meat or use any animal products
and own an aquarium or a dog or cat, if they do, isn't it like one
canceling the other out?

Kay


If you want to contribute to decent lives for animals with
your lifestyle, you need to be a conscientious comsumer
of animal products because you can't do it by being a vegan.
If you are providing a decent home for your pets then you can
feel good about that, and don't let anything make you feel
otherwise. You are their life, and if you were not then the only
options would be for them to die, or for someone else to care for
them instead of you. I'd bet that you're the best thing for them,
and hopefully you can happily feel the same way.
  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 19-12-2004, 07:54 PM
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 19:53:19 GMT, Kay wrote:

I have been lurking and lurking and thinking.


That last part is unusual. Much of what people want to "teach"
around here, is what *not!* to think about.

I have read about the cds
and food processing.


· Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
What they try to avoid are products which provide life
(and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
to avoid the following in order to be successful:

Tires, Surgical sutures, Matches, Soaps, Photographic film,
Cosmetics, Shaving cream, Paints, Candles, Crayon/Chalk,
Toothpaste, Deodorants, Mouthwash, Paper, Upholstery,
Floor waxes, Glass, Water Filters, Rubber, Fertilizer,
Antifreeze, Ceramics, Insecticides, Insulation, Linoleum,
Plastic, Textiles, Blood factors, Collagen, Heparin, Insulin,
Pancreatin, Thrombin, Vasopressin, Vitamin B-12, Asphalt,
auto and jet lubricants, outboard engine oil, high-performance
greases, brake fluid, contact-lens care products, glues for paper
and cardboard cartons, bookbinding glue, clarification of wines,
Hemostats, sunscreens and sunblocks, dental floss, hairspray,
inks, PVC Explosives, Solvents, Industrial Oils, Industrial Lubricants,
Stearic Acid, Biodegradable Detergents, Herbicides, Syringes,
Gelatin Capsules, Bandage Strips, Combs and Toothbrushes,
Emery Boards and Cloth, Adhesive Tape, Laminated Wood Products,
Plywood and Paneling, Wallpaper and Wallpaper Paste, Cellophane
Wrap and Tape, Adhesive Tape, Abrasives, Bone Charcoal for High
Grade Steel, Steel Ball Bearings

The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
slaughters, and the animals live and die in it as they do
in any other habitat. They also depend on it for their
lives like the animals in any other habitat. If people
consume animal products from animals they think are
raised in decent ways, they will be promoting life for
more such animals in the future. ·

[...]
If people think that being totally vegan is doing the best you can then
wouldn't that mean picking and choosing parts of vegan? Wouldn't
choosing certain parts (the easy parts) be unfair to say Tropical fish
cds? If everyone does the best they can picking certain things I would
think that as a movement it would be chaos and confusing.

Is being vegan against having pets like peta? Or are they one and the same?


PeTA is an "Animal Rights" group. "ARAs" want to eliminate
domestic animals:
__________________________________________________ _______
[...]
"One generation and out. We have no problem with the extinction of domestic
animals. They are creations of human selective breeding...We have no ethical
obligation to preserve the different breeds of livestock produced through
selective breeding." (Wayne Pacelle, HSUS, former director of the Fund for
Animals, Animal People, May 1993)
[...]
Tom Regan, Animal Rights Author and Philosopher, North Carolina State
University

"It is not larger, cleaner cages that justice demands...but empty cages."
(Regan, The Philosophy of Animal Rights, 1989)

http://www.agcouncil.com/leaders.htm
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
__________________________________________________ _______
[...]
"Pet ownership is an absolutely abysmal situation brought about
by human manipulation." -- Ingrid Newkirk, national director,
People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA), Just Like Us?
Toward a Nation of Animal Rights" (symposium), Harper's, August
1988, p. 50.

"Liberating our language by eliminating the word 'pet' is the
first step... In an ideal society where all exploitation and
oppression has been eliminated, it will be NJARA's policy to
oppose the keeping of animals as 'pets.'" --New Jersey Animal
Rights Alliance, "Should Dogs Be Kept As Pets? NO!" Good Dog!
February 1991, p. 20.

"Let us allow the dog to disappear from our brick and concrete
jungles--from our firesides, from the leather nooses and chains
by which we enslave it." --John Bryant, Fettered Kingdoms: An
Examination of A Changing Ethic (Washington, DC: People for the
Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA), 1982), p. 15.

"The cat, like the dog, must disappear... We should cut the
domestic cat free from our dominance by neutering, neutering, and
more neutering, until our pathetic version of the cat ceases to
exist." --John Bryant, Fettered Kingdoms: An Examination of A
Changing Ethic (Washington, DC: People for the Ethical Treatment
of Animals (PeTA), 1982), p. 15.
[...]
"We are not especially 'interested in' animals. Neither of us had
ever been inordinately fond of dogs, cats, or horses in the way
that many people are. We didn't 'love' animals." --Peter Singer,
Animal Liberation: A New Ethic for Our Treatment of Animals, 2nd
ed. (New York Review of Books, 1990), Preface, p. ii.

"The theory of animal rights simply is not consistent with the
theory of animal welfare... Animal rights means dramatic social
changes for humans and non-humans alike; if our bourgeois values
prevent us from accepting those changes, then we have no right to
call ourselves advocates of animal rights." --Gary Francione,
The Animals' Voice, Vol. 4, No. 2 (undated), pp. 54-55.

"Not only are the philosophies of animal rights and animal
welfare separated by irreconcilable differences... the enactment
of animal welfare measures actually impedes the achievement of
animal rights... Welfare reforms, by their very nature, can only
serve to retard the pace at which animal rights goals are
achieved." --Gary Francione and Tom Regan, "A Movement's Means
Create Its Ends," The Animals' Agenda, January/February 1992,
pp. 40-42.
[...]
http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/~powlesla...ights/pets.txt
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
Animal Welfare is a completely different thing, because it allows
for the animals:
__________________________________________________ _______
AVMA Policy on Animal Welfare and Animal Rights

Animal welfare is a human responsibility that encompasses all aspects
of animal well-being, from proper housing and nutrition to preventive
care, treatment of disease, and when necessary, humane euthanasia.
The AVMA's commitment to animal welfare is unsurpassed.

However, animal welfare and animal rights are not the same. AVMA cannot
endorse the philosophical views and personal values of animal rights
advocates when they are incompatible with the responsible use of animals
for human purposes, such as food and fiber, and for research conducted
to benefit both humans and animals.

http://www.avma.org/policies/animalwelfare.asp
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
__________________________________________________ _______
[...]
As two recent issues of Alternatives in Philanthropy discussed
("Animal Welfare vs. Animal Rights: The Case of PETA," July 1997,
and "The Humane Society of the U.S.: It’s Not about Animal
Shelters," October 1997), animal rights organizations seek to end
traditional uses of animals. By contrast, animal welfare organizations
seek to improve the treatment of animals. Animal lovers who wish
to support animal-interest organizations should keep this distinction in
mind.
[...]
http://www.responsiblewildlifemanage...mal_rights.htm
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
The more I look around my house, city and such it seems to me everything
causes cds. And if that is true, then there is no total vegan only parts
and pieces.


· From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
draining of fields, one meal of soy or rice based product is
likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of meals
derived from grass raised cattle. Grass raised animal products
contribute to less wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
better lives for livestock than soy or rice products. ·

I am not trying to start a fight, but am really wondering these things.
I wonder if a vegan is proud not to eat meat or use any animal products
and own an aquarium or a dog or cat, if they do, isn't it like one
canceling the other out?

Kay


If you want to contribute to decent lives for animals with
your lifestyle, you need to be a conscientious comsumer
of animal products because you can't do it by being a vegan.
If you are providing a decent home for your pets then you can
feel good about that, and don't let anything make you feel
otherwise. You are their life, and if you were not then the only
options would be for them to die, or for someone else to care for
them instead of you. I'd bet that you're the best thing for them,
and hopefully you can happily feel the same way.


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Everyday Meals Terry Pulliam Burd General Cooking 10 24-07-2005 06:09 PM
Everyday Italian Jarkat2002 General Cooking 3 30-09-2004 02:35 PM
Everyday wines/ everyday foods TB Wine 0 26-05-2004 05:28 PM
Everyday Wines, Everyday food Rich R Wine 4 03-03-2004 04:33 AM
Everyday Wines, Everyday Foods Rich R Wine 5 16-02-2004 05:42 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:15 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright İ2004-2020 FoodBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Food and drink"

 

Copyright © 2017