Fundamentalism tends to be centered on absolutes, but the road to
becoming a fundamentalist is most often a gradual one. Many followers of
fundamentalist religious sects don't actually start out in
fundamentalism, they follow a progression that leads them further and
further to an extreme. They usually have practiced in a mainstream area
of the religion before getting involved in the periphery of fundamentalism.

In a similar way, vegans usually start out with mainstream and
socially-accepted views of food and work their way to extremism. They
come from families whose views of diet are quite conventional and whose
diets include at least some meat. Over time, they become vegetarian and
wean themselves off meat while they continue to consume dairy products.
During this transition period, they may have a variety of outside
influences pressuring them to make even more drastic changes. Perhaps
they've read or watched videos propagandizing issues like veal
production and egg production. They become horrified and wean themselves
from dairy and eggs and become vegans. They become extremists,
impassioned by an aggressive and extremist agenda.

As is the case in fundamentalism, the zeal of vegans leads them to
challenge others' diets and beliefs. Offering vegans food which contains
animal ingredients is a form of blasphemy, an unforgivable affront to
them and to all they hold sacred. Rather than politely declining such
foods, the vegan must make a scene and assail the person offering the
food as a murderer or some other term of moral inferiority (just as
other religions call those not following it infidels, heathen, etc.).

Nor is it sufficient for vegans to have their own peculiar beliefs and
diets. They aggressively proseletyze others, starting with family and
friends and working their way to wait staff at restaurants and other
strangers. Like other religious fundamentalists, they dream of the day
when everyone is *just like them* in diet and belief; vegans, too, are
rigid in conformity to their belief system.

They suggest others take the same path of gradualism they themselves
took: "Just see if you can stop eating meat for a week. Then two weeks."
And so on. They further coerce others through the use of propaganda
videos and printed disinformation about farming techniques; much of the
stuff activists use is from old incidents which were prosecuted, but
they willfully lie that such is the norm in modern agriculture. Since
most people are urbanized and far removed from their food, they're
overly sensitive about such things and they're susceptible to the
distortions provided by the activists trying to convert them to veganism.

And when someone does convert, the cycle of gradualism starts all over.

That's funny, I thought I was in alt.food.vegan
not alt.religion.vegan.
--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Randon Link' button.

"usual suspect" > wrote in message
...
> Fundamentalism tends to be centered on absolutes, but the road to
[blah blah blah]

Vegan Holy Roller wrote:
> That's funny, I thought I was in alt.food.vegan
> not alt.religion.vegan.

That's because you're one of the unenlightened vegan holy rollers who
can't see the forest for the trees.

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 23:02:24 GMT, usual suspect > wrote:

>Vegan Holy Roller wrote:
>> That's funny, I thought I was in alt.food.vegan
>> not alt.religion.vegan.
>
>That's because you're one of the unenlightened vegan holy rollers who
>can't see the forest for the trees.

No, it isn't because of anything like that, liar. It's because
evidence in Google archives shows exactly where you've
categorically stated that veganism is not a religion.

[start - Bart to you]
> If one was to compare Veganism to a religious/spiritual brand,
> it would come close to Buddhism and Hinduism.
[you]
Sorry, but you're off in the wrong direction. Veganism is
not a religion or a spiritual issue for most people...
[end]
usual suspect 11 Jun 2002 http://tinyurl.com/4jtz8

Let's see you lie and back pedal your way out of this one.

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 23:02:24 GMT, usual suspect > wrote:

>Vegan Holy Roller wrote:
>> That's funny, I thought I was in alt.food.vegan
>> not alt.religion.vegan.
>
>That's because you're one of the unenlightened vegan holy rollers who
>can't see the forest for the trees.

No, it isn't because of anything like that, liar. It's because
evidence in Google archives shows exactly where you've
categorically stated that veganism is not a religion.

[start - Bart to you]
> If one was to compare Veganism to a religious/spiritual brand,
> it would come close to Buddhism and Hinduism.
[you]
Sorry, but you're off in the wrong direction. Veganism is
not a religion or a spiritual issue for most people...
[end]
usual suspect 11 Jun 2002 http://tinyurl.com/4jtz8

Let's see you lie and back pedal your way out of this one.

Veganism isn't recognised by any official body as a religion, although a
very loose definition of religion could include veganism, but then such a
definition would include many other things that are not thought to be
religions. If just a "cause" or "principle" is a religion, then organic
farming might be seen as a religion, and so would womens liberation - but
nobody is really claiming such are religions. Veganism is part of a broader
philosophy of extending the concept of rights, or at least
compassion/respect to animals where such is practical.

Veganism does not qualify by any realistic set of definitions as a
religion - see
http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQ...ef_problem.htm for
example.

Veganism has no great body of dogma, it simply has some basic ideas that are
not even easy to agree on in terms of what is or is not expected of one.

John

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 22:45:35 GMT, usual suspect > wrote:

[snipped rant]
>Nor is it sufficient for vegans to have their own peculiar beliefs and
>diets. They aggressively proseletyze others, starting with family

False. Since my youngest daughter (20) returned home
after living with her bloke for some years, I now have
meat stored and cooked in my kitchen every day. You
don't know what you're talking about, boy.

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 22:45:35 GMT, usual suspect > wrote:

[snipped rant]
>Nor is it sufficient for vegans to have their own peculiar beliefs and
>diets. They aggressively proseletyze others, starting with family

False. Since my youngest daughter (20) returned home
after living with her bloke for some years, I now have
meat stored and cooked in my kitchen every day. You
don't know what you're talking about, boy.

"John Coleman" > wrote in message
...
> Veganism isn't recognised by any official body as a religion, although a
> very loose definition of religion could include veganism, but then such a
> definition would include many other things that are not thought to be
> religions. If just a "cause" or "principle" is a religion, then organic
> farming might be seen as a religion, and so would womens liberation - but
> nobody is really claiming such are religions. Veganism is part of a
> broader
> philosophy of extending the concept of rights, or at least
> compassion/respect to animals where such is practical.
========================
Ummm, you just described a religion, thanks killer....


>
> Veganism does not qualify by any realistic set of definitions as a
> religion - see
> http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQ...ef_problem.htm for
> example.
>
> Veganism has no great body of dogma, it simply has some basic ideas that
> are
> not even easy to agree on in terms of what is or is not expected of one.
================
Yes, there is, the faith in your simple rule for your simple mind, 'eat no
meat.' Faith that that rule alone automatically causes no/fewer/less animal
deaths.

>
> John
>
>

"John Coleman" > wrote in message
...
> Veganism isn't recognised by any official body as a religion, although a
> very loose definition of religion could include veganism, but then such a
> definition would include many other things that are not thought to be
> religions. If just a "cause" or "principle" is a religion, then organic
> farming might be seen as a religion, and so would womens liberation - but
> nobody is really claiming such are religions. Veganism is part of a
> broader
> philosophy of extending the concept of rights, or at least
> compassion/respect to animals where such is practical.
========================
Ummm, you just described a religion, thanks killer....


>
> Veganism does not qualify by any realistic set of definitions as a
> religion - see
> http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQ...ef_problem.htm for
> example.
>
> Veganism has no great body of dogma, it simply has some basic ideas that
> are
> not even easy to agree on in terms of what is or is not expected of one.
================
Yes, there is, the faith in your simple rule for your simple mind, 'eat no
meat.' Faith that that rule alone automatically causes no/fewer/less animal
deaths.

>
> John
>
>

"usual suspect" > wrote in message
...
> Fundamentalism tends to be centered on absolutes, but the road to
> becoming a fundamentalist is most often a gradual one. Many followers of
> fundamentalist religious sects don't actually start out in
> fundamentalism, they follow a progression that leads them further and
> further to an extreme. They usually have practiced in a mainstream area
> of the religion before getting involved in the periphery of
fundamentalism.
>
> In a similar way, vegans usually start out with mainstream and
> socially-accepted views of food and work their way to extremism. They
> come from families whose views of diet are quite conventional and whose
> diets include at least some meat. Over time, they become vegetarian and
> wean themselves off meat while they continue to consume dairy products.
> During this transition period, they may have a variety of outside
> influences pressuring them to make even more drastic changes. Perhaps
> they've read or watched videos propagandizing issues like veal
> production and egg production. They become horrified and wean themselves
> from dairy and eggs and become vegans. They become extremists,
> impassioned by an aggressive and extremist agenda.
>
> As is the case in fundamentalism, the zeal of vegans leads them to
> challenge others' diets and beliefs. Offering vegans food which contains
> animal ingredients is a form of blasphemy, an unforgivable affront to
> them and to all they hold sacred. Rather than politely declining such
> foods, the vegan must make a scene and assail the person offering the
> food as a murderer or some other term of moral inferiority (just as
> other religions call those not following it infidels, heathen, etc.).
>
> Nor is it sufficient for vegans to have their own peculiar beliefs and
> diets. They aggressively proseletyze others, starting with family and
> friends and working their way to wait staff at restaurants and other
> strangers. Like other religious fundamentalists, they dream of the day
> when everyone is *just like them* in diet and belief; vegans, too, are
> rigid in conformity to their belief system.
>
> They suggest others take the same path of gradualism they themselves
> took: "Just see if you can stop eating meat for a week. Then two weeks."
> And so on. They further coerce others through the use of propaganda
> videos and printed disinformation about farming techniques; much of the
> stuff activists use is from old incidents which were prosecuted, but
> they willfully lie that such is the norm in modern agriculture. Since
> most people are urbanized and far removed from their food, they're
> overly sensitive about such things and they're susceptible to the
> distortions provided by the activists trying to convert them to veganism.
>
> And when someone does convert, the cycle of gradualism starts all over.

This is garbage. You are stereotyping all vegans as some kind of misbehaved
evangelists spreading propaganda in effort to convert carnivores everywhere.
Your reasoning is almost laughable if it weren't for the sad fact that you
are serious. Essentially, you endeavor to spread your version of hate in the
same way that you accuse vegans of spreading their cause, and in a most
mean-spirited and aggressive way. My comparison of you to Nazis was even
more valid than I realized. There's something very wrong with you.

Retard wrote:
>>Vegan Holy Roller wrote:
>>
>>>That's funny, I thought I was in alt.food.vegan
>>>not alt.religion.vegan.
>>
>>That's because you're one of the unenlightened vegan holy rollers who
>>can't see the forest for the trees.
>
> No,

Yes. It's a religion.

Retard wrote:
>>Vegan Holy Roller wrote:
>>
>>>That's funny, I thought I was in alt.food.vegan
>>>not alt.religion.vegan.
>>
>>That's because you're one of the unenlightened vegan holy rollers who
>>can't see the forest for the trees.
>
> No,

Yes. It's a religion.

John Coleman wrote:
> Veganism isn't recognised by any official body as a religion, although a
> very loose definition of religion could include veganism,

Words can have narrow and broad definitions. Veganism is a religion
under both broad and narrow views.

> but then such a
> definition would include many other things that are not thought to be
> religions.

One course at Rutgers University lumps it in with a variety of religious
movements:
the lighter side of millennial thinking: neo-Paganism, Veganism,
and other "New Age" phenomena
http://anthro.rutgers.edu/courses/308shapiro2004.htm

One vegan (and another retired professor) also debates the issue in the
wake of one judge's ruling that veganism isn't a religion and determines
it IS a religion:
http://www.veganvalues.org/veganism_religion.htm

<...>
> Veganism has no great body of dogma,

Bullshit. It is dogmatic and doctrinaire.

<...>

John Coleman wrote:
> Veganism isn't recognised by any official body as a religion, although a
> very loose definition of religion could include veganism,

Words can have narrow and broad definitions. Veganism is a religion
under both broad and narrow views.

> but then such a
> definition would include many other things that are not thought to be
> religions.

One course at Rutgers University lumps it in with a variety of religious
movements:
the lighter side of millennial thinking: neo-Paganism, Veganism,
and other "New Age" phenomena
http://anthro.rutgers.edu/courses/308shapiro2004.htm

One vegan (and another retired professor) also debates the issue in the
wake of one judge's ruling that veganism isn't a religion and determines
it IS a religion:
http://www.veganvalues.org/veganism_religion.htm

<...>
> Veganism has no great body of dogma,

Bullshit. It is dogmatic and doctrinaire.

<...>

Retard wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 22:45:35 GMT, usual suspect > wrote:
>
> [snipped rant]
>
>>Nor is it sufficient for vegans to have their own peculiar beliefs and
>>diets. They aggressively proseletyze others, starting with family
>
> False. Since my youngest daughter (20) returned home
> after living with her bloke for some years, I now have
> meat stored and cooked in my kitchen every day.

I suspect that's been the case all along. You didn't balloon from eating
brown rice, veggies, and beans.

C. James Strutz wrote:
>>Fundamentalism tends to be centered on absolutes, but the road to
>>becoming a fundamentalist is most often a gradual one. Many followers of
>>fundamentalist religious sects don't actually start out in
>>fundamentalism, they follow a progression that leads them further and
>>further to an extreme. They usually have practiced in a mainstream area
>>of the religion before getting involved in the periphery of
>> fundamentalism.
>
>>In a similar way, vegans usually start out with mainstream and
>>socially-accepted views of food and work their way to extremism. They
>>come from families whose views of diet are quite conventional and whose
>>diets include at least some meat. Over time, they become vegetarian and
>>wean themselves off meat while they continue to consume dairy products.
>>During this transition period, they may have a variety of outside
>>influences pressuring them to make even more drastic changes. Perhaps
>>they've read or watched videos propagandizing issues like veal
>>production and egg production. They become horrified and wean themselves
>>from dairy and eggs and become vegans. They become extremists,
>>impassioned by an aggressive and extremist agenda.
>>
>>As is the case in fundamentalism, the zeal of vegans leads them to
>>challenge others' diets and beliefs. Offering vegans food which contains
>>animal ingredients is a form of blasphemy, an unforgivable affront to
>>them and to all they hold sacred. Rather than politely declining such
>>foods, the vegan must make a scene and assail the person offering the
>>food as a murderer or some other term of moral inferiority (just as
>>other religions call those not following it infidels, heathen, etc.).
>>
>>Nor is it sufficient for vegans to have their own peculiar beliefs and
>>diets. They aggressively proseletyze others, starting with family and
>>friends and working their way to wait staff at restaurants and other
>>strangers. Like other religious fundamentalists, they dream of the day
>>when everyone is *just like them* in diet and belief; vegans, too, are
>>rigid in conformity to their belief system.
>>
>>They suggest others take the same path of gradualism they themselves
>>took: "Just see if you can stop eating meat for a week. Then two weeks."
>>And so on. They further coerce others through the use of propaganda
>>videos and printed disinformation about farming techniques; much of the
>>stuff activists use is from old incidents which were prosecuted, but
>>they willfully lie that such is the norm in modern agriculture. Since
>>most people are urbanized and far removed from their food, they're
>>overly sensitive about such things and they're susceptible to the
>>distortions provided by the activists trying to convert them to veganism.
>>
>>And when someone does convert, the cycle of gradualism starts all over.
>
> This is garbage.

Ipse dixit.

> You are stereotyping all vegans as some kind of misbehaved
> evangelists spreading propaganda in effort to convert carnivores everywhere.

http://www.goveg.com/
http://www.meetyourmeat.com/
http://www.lettuceladies.com/Peta01sm.jpg

Oh yeah, and I forgot: many of the deluded vegan morons try to force
other species to eat according to vegan ideals:
http://www.veganpet.com.au/whyvegan1.htm

> Your reasoning is almost laughable if it weren't for the sad fact that you
> are serious.

So are the evangelists at PeTA. Are their appeals to "Go Vegan" jokes?
How about when they encourage violent protest? How about when they buy
ad space on billboards to say that Jesus would be a vegan?

> Essentially, you endeavor to spread your version of hate

No, not hate. I love humans. I love animals. In that order. Veganism is
the "version of hate" you should be concerned about, because its hatred
is of all mankind.

> in the
> same way that you accuse vegans of spreading their cause, and in a most
> mean-spirited and aggressive way. My comparison of you to Nazis was even
> more valid than I realized. There's something very wrong with you.

Godwin! Do not pass Go, do not collect $200. I win!
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/legends/godwin/

C. James Strutz wrote:
>>Fundamentalism tends to be centered on absolutes, but the road to
>>becoming a fundamentalist is most often a gradual one. Many followers of
>>fundamentalist religious sects don't actually start out in
>>fundamentalism, they follow a progression that leads them further and
>>further to an extreme. They usually have practiced in a mainstream area
>>of the religion before getting involved in the periphery of
>> fundamentalism.
>
>>In a similar way, vegans usually start out with mainstream and
>>socially-accepted views of food and work their way to extremism. They
>>come from families whose views of diet are quite conventional and whose
>>diets include at least some meat. Over time, they become vegetarian and
>>wean themselves off meat while they continue to consume dairy products.
>>During this transition period, they may have a variety of outside
>>influences pressuring them to make even more drastic changes. Perhaps
>>they've read or watched videos propagandizing issues like veal
>>production and egg production. They become horrified and wean themselves
>>from dairy and eggs and become vegans. They become extremists,
>>impassioned by an aggressive and extremist agenda.
>>
>>As is the case in fundamentalism, the zeal of vegans leads them to
>>challenge others' diets and beliefs. Offering vegans food which contains
>>animal ingredients is a form of blasphemy, an unforgivable affront to
>>them and to all they hold sacred. Rather than politely declining such
>>foods, the vegan must make a scene and assail the person offering the
>>food as a murderer or some other term of moral inferiority (just as
>>other religions call those not following it infidels, heathen, etc.).
>>
>>Nor is it sufficient for vegans to have their own peculiar beliefs and
>>diets. They aggressively proseletyze others, starting with family and
>>friends and working their way to wait staff at restaurants and other
>>strangers. Like other religious fundamentalists, they dream of the day
>>when everyone is *just like them* in diet and belief; vegans, too, are
>>rigid in conformity to their belief system.
>>
>>They suggest others take the same path of gradualism they themselves
>>took: "Just see if you can stop eating meat for a week. Then two weeks."
>>And so on. They further coerce others through the use of propaganda
>>videos and printed disinformation about farming techniques; much of the
>>stuff activists use is from old incidents which were prosecuted, but
>>they willfully lie that such is the norm in modern agriculture. Since
>>most people are urbanized and far removed from their food, they're
>>overly sensitive about such things and they're susceptible to the
>>distortions provided by the activists trying to convert them to veganism.
>>
>>And when someone does convert, the cycle of gradualism starts all over.
>
> This is garbage.

Ipse dixit.

> You are stereotyping all vegans as some kind of misbehaved
> evangelists spreading propaganda in effort to convert carnivores everywhere.

http://www.goveg.com/
http://www.meetyourmeat.com/
http://www.lettuceladies.com/Peta01sm.jpg

Oh yeah, and I forgot: many of the deluded vegan morons try to force
other species to eat according to vegan ideals:
http://www.veganpet.com.au/whyvegan1.htm

> Your reasoning is almost laughable if it weren't for the sad fact that you
> are serious.

So are the evangelists at PeTA. Are their appeals to "Go Vegan" jokes?
How about when they encourage violent protest? How about when they buy
ad space on billboards to say that Jesus would be a vegan?

> Essentially, you endeavor to spread your version of hate

No, not hate. I love humans. I love animals. In that order. Veganism is
the "version of hate" you should be concerned about, because its hatred
is of all mankind.

> in the
> same way that you accuse vegans of spreading their cause, and in a most
> mean-spirited and aggressive way. My comparison of you to Nazis was even
> more valid than I realized. There's something very wrong with you.

Godwin! Do not pass Go, do not collect $200. I win!
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/legends/godwin/

Retard wrote:
> I now have meat stored and cooked in my kitchen every day.

First, you're a compulsive eater who drowned his food in Worcestershire
sauce, which you didn't realize had "fish parts" in it until Mr Ball
informed you. Second, you couldn't break free from your addiction to
pain pills despite your protests against the pharmaceutical companies.
Now this admission. I knew it was just a matter of time.

Retard wrote:
> I now have meat stored and cooked in my kitchen every day.

First, you're a compulsive eater who drowned his food in Worcestershire
sauce, which you didn't realize had "fish parts" in it until Mr Ball
informed you. Second, you couldn't break free from your addiction to
pain pills despite your protests against the pharmaceutical companies.
Now this admission. I knew it was just a matter of time.

It is a spiritual thing for me. However, I love my parents, my brother,
my relatives, none of which are vegetarian. I accept them for who they are.

My father thanked me for keeping him alive by buying him a bike and
getting him to cut back on meat. Or at least, his cardio doctors agree
with me on that. I'm very proud, at 78 he rides his bike every day.

I don't expect him to ever become a vegetarian. Or my brother.
It's interesting, if you read The Bone Density Diet, by Dr. Kessler,
voted the best professor at Albert Einstein School of Medicine, it has
many vegetarian recipes for improving bone health.

Of course, because most children drank so much soda, we have a silent
epidemic of osteoporosis in this nation, and everyone should have a dexa
scan. The phosphoric acid in soda is the problem. Interestingly, in
countries that don't use dairy, osteoporosis is virtually unknown.

I urge everyone to get a baseline dexa scan, even if you hate me for
being a vegan. You might just thank me for it.


C. James Strutz wrote:

> "usual suspect" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Fundamentalism tends to be centered on absolutes, but the road to
>>becoming a fundamentalist is most often a gradual one. Many followers of
>>fundamentalist religious sects don't actually start out in
>>fundamentalism, they follow a progression that leads them further and
>>further to an extreme. They usually have practiced in a mainstream area
>>of the religion before getting involved in the periphery of
>
> fundamentalism.
>
>>In a similar way, vegans usually start out with mainstream and
>>socially-accepted views of food and work their way to extremism. They
>>come from families whose views of diet are quite conventional and whose
>>diets include at least some meat. Over time, they become vegetarian and
>>wean themselves off meat while they continue to consume dairy products.
>>During this transition period, they may have a variety of outside
>>influences pressuring them to make even more drastic changes. Perhaps
>>they've read or watched videos propagandizing issues like veal
>>production and egg production. They become horrified and wean themselves
>>from dairy and eggs and become vegans. They become extremists,
>>impassioned by an aggressive and extremist agenda.
>>
>>As is the case in fundamentalism, the zeal of vegans leads them to
>>challenge others' diets and beliefs. Offering vegans food which contains
>>animal ingredients is a form of blasphemy, an unforgivable affront to
>>them and to all they hold sacred. Rather than politely declining such
>>foods, the vegan must make a scene and assail the person offering the
>>food as a murderer or some other term of moral inferiority (just as
>>other religions call those not following it infidels, heathen, etc.).
>>
>>Nor is it sufficient for vegans to have their own peculiar beliefs and
>>diets. They aggressively proseletyze others, starting with family and
>>friends and working their way to wait staff at restaurants and other
>>strangers. Like other religious fundamentalists, they dream of the day
>>when everyone is *just like them* in diet and belief; vegans, too, are
>>rigid in conformity to their belief system.
>>
>>They suggest others take the same path of gradualism they themselves
>>took: "Just see if you can stop eating meat for a week. Then two weeks."
>>And so on. They further coerce others through the use of propaganda
>>videos and printed disinformation about farming techniques; much of the
>>stuff activists use is from old incidents which were prosecuted, but
>>they willfully lie that such is the norm in modern agriculture. Since
>>most people are urbanized and far removed from their food, they're
>>overly sensitive about such things and they're susceptible to the
>>distortions provided by the activists trying to convert them to veganism.
>>
>>And when someone does convert, the cycle of gradualism starts all over.
>
>
> This is garbage. You are stereotyping all vegans as some kind of misbehaved
> evangelists spreading propaganda in effort to convert carnivores everywhere.
> Your reasoning is almost laughable if it weren't for the sad fact that you
> are serious. Essentially, you endeavor to spread your version of hate in the
> same way that you accuse vegans of spreading their cause, and in a most
> mean-spirited and aggressive way. My comparison of you to Nazis was even
> more valid than I realized. There's something very wrong with you.
>
>

It is a spiritual thing for me. However, I love my parents, my brother,
my relatives, none of which are vegetarian. I accept them for who they are.

My father thanked me for keeping him alive by buying him a bike and
getting him to cut back on meat. Or at least, his cardio doctors agree
with me on that. I'm very proud, at 78 he rides his bike every day.

I don't expect him to ever become a vegetarian. Or my brother.
It's interesting, if you read The Bone Density Diet, by Dr. Kessler,
voted the best professor at Albert Einstein School of Medicine, it has
many vegetarian recipes for improving bone health.

Of course, because most children drank so much soda, we have a silent
epidemic of osteoporosis in this nation, and everyone should have a dexa
scan. The phosphoric acid in soda is the problem. Interestingly, in
countries that don't use dairy, osteoporosis is virtually unknown.

I urge everyone to get a baseline dexa scan, even if you hate me for
being a vegan. You might just thank me for it.


C. James Strutz wrote:

> "usual suspect" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Fundamentalism tends to be centered on absolutes, but the road to
>>becoming a fundamentalist is most often a gradual one. Many followers of
>>fundamentalist religious sects don't actually start out in
>>fundamentalism, they follow a progression that leads them further and
>>further to an extreme. They usually have practiced in a mainstream area
>>of the religion before getting involved in the periphery of
>
> fundamentalism.
>
>>In a similar way, vegans usually start out with mainstream and
>>socially-accepted views of food and work their way to extremism. They
>>come from families whose views of diet are quite conventional and whose
>>diets include at least some meat. Over time, they become vegetarian and
>>wean themselves off meat while they continue to consume dairy products.
>>During this transition period, they may have a variety of outside
>>influences pressuring them to make even more drastic changes. Perhaps
>>they've read or watched videos propagandizing issues like veal
>>production and egg production. They become horrified and wean themselves
>>from dairy and eggs and become vegans. They become extremists,
>>impassioned by an aggressive and extremist agenda.
>>
>>As is the case in fundamentalism, the zeal of vegans leads them to
>>challenge others' diets and beliefs. Offering vegans food which contains
>>animal ingredients is a form of blasphemy, an unforgivable affront to
>>them and to all they hold sacred. Rather than politely declining such
>>foods, the vegan must make a scene and assail the person offering the
>>food as a murderer or some other term of moral inferiority (just as
>>other religions call those not following it infidels, heathen, etc.).
>>
>>Nor is it sufficient for vegans to have their own peculiar beliefs and
>>diets. They aggressively proseletyze others, starting with family and
>>friends and working their way to wait staff at restaurants and other
>>strangers. Like other religious fundamentalists, they dream of the day
>>when everyone is *just like them* in diet and belief; vegans, too, are
>>rigid in conformity to their belief system.
>>
>>They suggest others take the same path of gradualism they themselves
>>took: "Just see if you can stop eating meat for a week. Then two weeks."
>>And so on. They further coerce others through the use of propaganda
>>videos and printed disinformation about farming techniques; much of the
>>stuff activists use is from old incidents which were prosecuted, but
>>they willfully lie that such is the norm in modern agriculture. Since
>>most people are urbanized and far removed from their food, they're
>>overly sensitive about such things and they're susceptible to the
>>distortions provided by the activists trying to convert them to veganism.
>>
>>And when someone does convert, the cycle of gradualism starts all over.
>
>
> This is garbage. You are stereotyping all vegans as some kind of misbehaved
> evangelists spreading propaganda in effort to convert carnivores everywhere.
> Your reasoning is almost laughable if it weren't for the sad fact that you
> are serious. Essentially, you endeavor to spread your version of hate in the
> same way that you accuse vegans of spreading their cause, and in a most
> mean-spirited and aggressive way. My comparison of you to Nazis was even
> more valid than I realized. There's something very wrong with you.
>
>

Beach Runner wrote:
> It is a spiritual thing for me.

It's your religion.

> However, I love my parents, my brother,
> my relatives, none of which are vegetarian. I accept them for who they
> are.

That's swell of you.

> My father thanked me for keeping him alive by buying him a bike and
> getting him to cut back on meat. Or at least, his cardio doctors agree
> with me on that. I'm very proud, at 78 he rides his bike every day.

Good for him. The bike's probably done more than changes in diet,
especially if he wasn't getting much exercise before. Exercise has a
very beneficial effect on cardiac health, cholesterol levels, metabolic
rate, etc.

> I don't expect him to ever become a vegetarian. Or my brother.

The question is, Do you ever suggest or recommend they alter their
diets? You just admitted that you have, at least to your father.

> It's interesting, if you read The Bone Density Diet, by Dr. Kessler,

Not interesting.

> voted the best professor at Albert Einstein School of Medicine, it has
> many vegetarian recipes for improving bone health.
>
> Of course, because most children drank so much soda, we have a silent
> epidemic of osteoporosis in this nation, and everyone should have a dexa
> scan.

Not everyone needs to be exposed to x-rays. People who are at risk of
osteoporosis or other bone afflictions should discuss it with their
doctors. They don't need someone in a newsgroup telling them they should
have what is, for most people, an unnecessary medical test.

> The phosphoric acid in soda is the problem.

That can be a CONTRIBUTING factor, but it is not the root cause. If
phosphoric acid were the main cause, males would be at the same risk of
developing osteoporosis at nearly the same stages of live. That's not
the case. See the following article about a possible genetic breakthrough.

http://www.forbes.com/execpicks/2003...103decode.html

> Interestingly, in
> countries that don't use dairy, osteoporosis is virtually unknown.

The average lifespan in those countries is so short that many diseases
and conditions which affect us in old age never affect them.

> I urge everyone to get a baseline dexa scan, even if you hate me for
> being a vegan. You might just thank me for it.

Okay, and I urge all you vegans to get some Rorschach testing. And some
couch time for your eating disorder.

> C. James Strutz wrote:
>
>> "usual suspect" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> Fundamentalism tends to be centered on absolutes, but the road to
>>> becoming a fundamentalist is most often a gradual one. Many followers of
>>> fundamentalist religious sects don't actually start out in
>>> fundamentalism, they follow a progression that leads them further and
>>> further to an extreme. They usually have practiced in a mainstream area
>>> of the religion before getting involved in the periphery of
>>
>>
>> fundamentalism.
>>
>>> In a similar way, vegans usually start out with mainstream and
>>> socially-accepted views of food and work their way to extremism. They
>>> come from families whose views of diet are quite conventional and whose
>>> diets include at least some meat. Over time, they become vegetarian and
>>> wean themselves off meat while they continue to consume dairy products.
>>> During this transition period, they may have a variety of outside
>>> influences pressuring them to make even more drastic changes. Perhaps
>>> they've read or watched videos propagandizing issues like veal
>>> production and egg production. They become horrified and wean themselves
>>> from dairy and eggs and become vegans. They become extremists,
>>> impassioned by an aggressive and extremist agenda.
>>>
>>> As is the case in fundamentalism, the zeal of vegans leads them to
>>> challenge others' diets and beliefs. Offering vegans food which contains
>>> animal ingredients is a form of blasphemy, an unforgivable affront to
>>> them and to all they hold sacred. Rather than politely declining such
>>> foods, the vegan must make a scene and assail the person offering the
>>> food as a murderer or some other term of moral inferiority (just as
>>> other religions call those not following it infidels, heathen, etc.).
>>>
>>> Nor is it sufficient for vegans to have their own peculiar beliefs and
>>> diets. They aggressively proseletyze others, starting with family and
>>> friends and working their way to wait staff at restaurants and other
>>> strangers. Like other religious fundamentalists, they dream of the day
>>> when everyone is *just like them* in diet and belief; vegans, too, are
>>> rigid in conformity to their belief system.
>>>
>>> They suggest others take the same path of gradualism they themselves
>>> took: "Just see if you can stop eating meat for a week. Then two weeks."
>>> And so on. They further coerce others through the use of propaganda
>>> videos and printed disinformation about farming techniques; much of the
>>> stuff activists use is from old incidents which were prosecuted, but
>>> they willfully lie that such is the norm in modern agriculture. Since
>>> most people are urbanized and far removed from their food, they're
>>> overly sensitive about such things and they're susceptible to the
>>> distortions provided by the activists trying to convert them to
>>> veganism.
>>>
>>> And when someone does convert, the cycle of gradualism starts all over.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is garbage. You are stereotyping all vegans as some kind of
>> misbehaved
>> evangelists spreading propaganda in effort to convert carnivores
>> everywhere.
>> Your reasoning is almost laughable if it weren't for the sad fact that
>> you
>> are serious. Essentially, you endeavor to spread your version of hate
>> in the
>> same way that you accuse vegans of spreading their cause, and in a most
>> mean-spirited and aggressive way. My comparison of you to Nazis was even
>> more valid than I realized. There's something very wrong with you.
>>
>>

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 18:26:55 GMT, usual suspect > wrote:

>Reynard wrote:
>>>Vegan Holy Roller wrote:
>>>
>>>>That's funny, I thought I was in alt.food.vegan
>>>>not alt.religion.vegan.
>>>
>>>That's because you're one of the unenlightened vegan holy rollers who
>>>can't see the forest for the trees.
>>
>> No,
>
>Yes. It's a religion.

[start - Bart to you]
> If one was to compare Veganism to a religious/spiritual brand,
> it would come close to Buddhism and Hinduism.
[you]
Sorry, but you're off in the wrong direction. Veganism is
not a religion or a spiritual issue for most people...
[end]
usual suspect 11 Jun 2002 http://tinyurl.com/4jtz8

But now you're trying to assert that it is a religion. When
did Jon start telling you how to think about your religion,
Christian? Have you no mind of your own, or even the
religious beliefs you once held since Jon forced you into
thinking his way?

It clear to me now that your current position on ALL the
issues raised here carry as little weight as your older one,
seeing as you can't make up your mind which to hold. Like
Jon, Rick and Dutch, you're only here to heckle. You've
nothing substantial to offer any would-be arguer. I think
that even you realise you're nothing but a joke.

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 18:26:55 GMT, usual suspect > wrote:

>Reynard wrote:
>>>Vegan Holy Roller wrote:
>>>
>>>>That's funny, I thought I was in alt.food.vegan
>>>>not alt.religion.vegan.
>>>
>>>That's because you're one of the unenlightened vegan holy rollers who
>>>can't see the forest for the trees.
>>
>> No,
>
>Yes. It's a religion.

[start - Bart to you]
> If one was to compare Veganism to a religious/spiritual brand,
> it would come close to Buddhism and Hinduism.
[you]
Sorry, but you're off in the wrong direction. Veganism is
not a religion or a spiritual issue for most people...
[end]
usual suspect 11 Jun 2002 http://tinyurl.com/4jtz8

But now you're trying to assert that it is a religion. When
did Jon start telling you how to think about your religion,
Christian? Have you no mind of your own, or even the
religious beliefs you once held since Jon forced you into
thinking his way?

It clear to me now that your current position on ALL the
issues raised here carry as little weight as your older one,
seeing as you can't make up your mind which to hold. Like
Jon, Rick and Dutch, you're only here to heckle. You've
nothing substantial to offer any would-be arguer. I think
that even you realise you're nothing but a joke.

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 19:07:58 GMT, usual suspect > wrote:

>Reynard wrote:
>> On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 22:45:35 GMT, usual suspect > wrote:
>>
>> [snipped rant]
>>
>>>Nor is it sufficient for vegans to have their own peculiar beliefs and
>>>diets. They aggressively proseletyze

Learn how to spell these long words if you're going to
try impressing with me them, Mr. Sesquipedalian.

>>>others, starting with family
>>
>> False. Since my youngest daughter (20) returned home
>> after living with her bloke for some years, I now have
>> meat stored and cooked in my kitchen every day.
>
>I suspect that's been the case all along. You didn't balloon from eating
>brown rice, veggies, and beans.

Despite your unsupported assumptions concerning my diet,
what I've shown here is that, contrary to what you wrote
in that long and windy post, vegans can be and are tolerant
with meatarians. My daughter stores all meats and cheeses
in my fridge, roasts it on my stove, and eats it off my plates
up my table. But according to you all vegans, "aggressively
proselytise others, starting with family...". You don't know
what you're talking about.

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 19:07:58 GMT, usual suspect > wrote:

>Reynard wrote:
>> On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 22:45:35 GMT, usual suspect > wrote:
>>
>> [snipped rant]
>>
>>>Nor is it sufficient for vegans to have their own peculiar beliefs and
>>>diets. They aggressively proseletyze

Learn how to spell these long words if you're going to
try impressing with me them, Mr. Sesquipedalian.

>>>others, starting with family
>>
>> False. Since my youngest daughter (20) returned home
>> after living with her bloke for some years, I now have
>> meat stored and cooked in my kitchen every day.
>
>I suspect that's been the case all along. You didn't balloon from eating
>brown rice, veggies, and beans.

Despite your unsupported assumptions concerning my diet,
what I've shown here is that, contrary to what you wrote
in that long and windy post, vegans can be and are tolerant
with meatarians. My daughter stores all meats and cheeses
in my fridge, roasts it on my stove, and eats it off my plates
up my table. But according to you all vegans, "aggressively
proselytise others, starting with family...". You don't know
what you're talking about.

"usual suspect" > wrote in message
news
> Retard wrote:
>> I now have meat stored and cooked in my kitchen every day.
>
> First, you're a compulsive eater who drowned his food in Worcestershire
> sauce, which you didn't realize had "fish parts" in it until Mr Ball
> informed you. Second, you couldn't break free from your addiction to pain
> pills despite your protests against the pharmaceutical companies. Now this
> admission. I knew it was just a matter of time.

Racist Ray wrote:

What a load of crapola (Your own word) you write Mr. Suspect.
If you are going to make such statements please, at least, give date/time
details of the posting.

Secondly, the mistake in the consumption of Worcestershire sauce is common,
I made the same mistake myself and was corrected on these groups. (One of
the few things I have learned via "genuine posters"). Fortunately it is easy
to obtain the said product without the inclusion of "Fish parts".

Painkillers, like nearly every product you purchase or consume has, at one
time or another, undergone testing on animals, but not at my request. The
same applies to us all.

A little like the postings of Rick Etter, we are all "Killers", but not by
choice.

I have just counted the number of cans of meat in my two fridges (36), all
catfood. Unlike some, I do not inflict my diet on animals. However I will
not allow meat to be consumed by people in my our house. Friends know of our
convictions, if they can't respect our standards they can stay at home, for
they are not true friends.

Another thing, like some posters on these groups, you should learn the
difference between conviction and religion.

Now this posting contains enough holes to to keep you going for the next few
weeks, so you have no need to end every posting with the word "Discuss".

If you are not Jon Ball, why did your postings to the groups stop and start
at the same time? Not important, just an observation.

"usual suspect" > wrote in message
news
> Retard wrote:
>> I now have meat stored and cooked in my kitchen every day.
>
> First, you're a compulsive eater who drowned his food in Worcestershire
> sauce, which you didn't realize had "fish parts" in it until Mr Ball
> informed you. Second, you couldn't break free from your addiction to pain
> pills despite your protests against the pharmaceutical companies. Now this
> admission. I knew it was just a matter of time.

Racist Ray wrote:

What a load of crapola (Your own word) you write Mr. Suspect.
If you are going to make such statements please, at least, give date/time
details of the posting.

Secondly, the mistake in the consumption of Worcestershire sauce is common,
I made the same mistake myself and was corrected on these groups. (One of
the few things I have learned via "genuine posters"). Fortunately it is easy
to obtain the said product without the inclusion of "Fish parts".

Painkillers, like nearly every product you purchase or consume has, at one
time or another, undergone testing on animals, but not at my request. The
same applies to us all.

A little like the postings of Rick Etter, we are all "Killers", but not by
choice.

I have just counted the number of cans of meat in my two fridges (36), all
catfood. Unlike some, I do not inflict my diet on animals. However I will
not allow meat to be consumed by people in my our house. Friends know of our
convictions, if they can't respect our standards they can stay at home, for
they are not true friends.

Another thing, like some posters on these groups, you should learn the
difference between conviction and religion.

Now this posting contains enough holes to to keep you going for the next few
weeks, so you have no need to end every posting with the word "Discuss".

If you are not Jon Ball, why did your postings to the groups stop and start
at the same time? Not important, just an observation.

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 14:08:09 +0000 (UTC), "Ray" > wrote:
>"usual suspect" > wrote in message news
>> Retard wrote:
>>> I now have meat stored and cooked in my kitchen every day.
>>
>> First, you're a compulsive eater who drowned his food in Worcestershire
>> sauce, which you didn't realize had "fish parts" in it until Mr Ball
>> informed you. Second, you couldn't break free from your addiction to pain
>> pills despite your protests against the pharmaceutical companies. Now this
>> admission. I knew it was just a matter of time.
>
>Racist Ray wrote:
>
>What a load of crapola (Your own word) you write Mr. Suspect.
>If you are going to make such statements please, at least, give date/time
>details of the posting.

He won't because it was Zakhar who told me about
Worcester sauce - not Jonathan Ball, as he claims.

>Secondly, the mistake in the consumption of Worcestershire sauce is common,
>I made the same mistake myself and was corrected on these groups. (One of
>the few things I have learned via "genuine posters"). Fortunately it is easy
>to obtain the said product without the inclusion of "Fish parts".
>
>Painkillers, like nearly every product you purchase or consume has, at one
>time or another, undergone testing on animals, but not at my request. The
>same applies to us all.
>
>A little like the postings of Rick Etter, we are all "Killers", but not by
>choice.
>
>I have just counted the number of cans of meat in my two fridges (36), all
>catfood. Unlike some, I do not inflict my diet on animals. However I will
>not allow meat to be consumed by people in my our house. Friends know of our
>convictions, if they can't respect our standards they can stay at home, for
>they are not true friends.
>
>Another thing, like some posters on these groups, you should learn the
>difference between conviction and religion.
>
>Now this posting contains enough holes to to keep you going for the next few
>weeks, so you have no need to end every posting with the word "Discuss".
>
>If you are not Jon Ball, why did your postings to the groups stop and start
>at the same time? Not important, just an observation.
>
>

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 14:08:09 +0000 (UTC), "Ray" > wrote:
>"usual suspect" > wrote in message news
>> Retard wrote:
>>> I now have meat stored and cooked in my kitchen every day.
>>
>> First, you're a compulsive eater who drowned his food in Worcestershire
>> sauce, which you didn't realize had "fish parts" in it until Mr Ball
>> informed you. Second, you couldn't break free from your addiction to pain
>> pills despite your protests against the pharmaceutical companies. Now this
>> admission. I knew it was just a matter of time.
>
>Racist Ray wrote:
>
>What a load of crapola (Your own word) you write Mr. Suspect.
>If you are going to make such statements please, at least, give date/time
>details of the posting.

He won't because it was Zakhar who told me about
Worcester sauce - not Jonathan Ball, as he claims.

>Secondly, the mistake in the consumption of Worcestershire sauce is common,
>I made the same mistake myself and was corrected on these groups. (One of
>the few things I have learned via "genuine posters"). Fortunately it is easy
>to obtain the said product without the inclusion of "Fish parts".
>
>Painkillers, like nearly every product you purchase or consume has, at one
>time or another, undergone testing on animals, but not at my request. The
>same applies to us all.
>
>A little like the postings of Rick Etter, we are all "Killers", but not by
>choice.
>
>I have just counted the number of cans of meat in my two fridges (36), all
>catfood. Unlike some, I do not inflict my diet on animals. However I will
>not allow meat to be consumed by people in my our house. Friends know of our
>convictions, if they can't respect our standards they can stay at home, for
>they are not true friends.
>
>Another thing, like some posters on these groups, you should learn the
>difference between conviction and religion.
>
>Now this posting contains enough holes to to keep you going for the next few
>weeks, so you have no need to end every posting with the word "Discuss".
>
>If you are not Jon Ball, why did your postings to the groups stop and start
>at the same time? Not important, just an observation.
>
>

"usual suspect" > wrote in message
...
> C. James Strutz wrote:

> > Essentially, you endeavor to spread your version of hate
>
> No, not hate. I love humans.

If you love people so much, then why are you so mean and abusive to people
here?

> > in the
> > same way that you accuse vegans of spreading their cause, and in a most
> > mean-spirited and aggressive way. My comparison of you to Nazis was even
> > more valid than I realized. There's something very wrong with you.
>
> Godwin! Do not pass Go, do not collect $200. I win!
> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/legends/godwin/

You apparently didn't even read the ffirst paragraph of your own link.

"One of the most famous pieces of Usenet trivia out there is "if you mention
Hitler or Nazis in a post, you've automatically ended whatever discussion
you were taking part in". Known as Godwin's Law, this rule of Usenet has a
long and sordid history on the network - and is absolutely wrong."

"usual suspect" > wrote in message
...
> C. James Strutz wrote:

> > Essentially, you endeavor to spread your version of hate
>
> No, not hate. I love humans.

If you love people so much, then why are you so mean and abusive to people
here?

> > in the
> > same way that you accuse vegans of spreading their cause, and in a most
> > mean-spirited and aggressive way. My comparison of you to Nazis was even
> > more valid than I realized. There's something very wrong with you.
>
> Godwin! Do not pass Go, do not collect $200. I win!
> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/legends/godwin/

You apparently didn't even read the ffirst paragraph of your own link.

"One of the most famous pieces of Usenet trivia out there is "if you mention
Hitler or Nazis in a post, you've automatically ended whatever discussion
you were taking part in". Known as Godwin's Law, this rule of Usenet has a
long and sordid history on the network - and is absolutely wrong."

"C. James Strutz" > wrote in message
...
>
> "usual suspect" > wrote in message
> ...
>> C. James Strutz wrote:
>
>> > Essentially, you endeavor to spread your version of hate
>>
>> No, not hate. I love humans.
>
> If you love people so much, then why are you so mean and abusive to people
> here?
==================
Only the terminally ignorant that need to be shocked into reality. many,
like you, are beyond the reach of reason. Dogma, lys, and hate are all you
have left.


>
>> > in the
>> > same way that you accuse vegans of spreading their cause, and in a most
>> > mean-spirited and aggressive way. My comparison of you to Nazis was
>> > even
>> > more valid than I realized. There's something very wrong with you.
>>
>> Godwin! Do not pass Go, do not collect $200. I win!
>> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/legends/godwin/
>
> You apparently didn't even read the ffirst paragraph of your own link.
>
> "One of the most famous pieces of Usenet trivia out there is "if you
> mention
> Hitler or Nazis in a post, you've automatically ended whatever discussion
> you were taking part in". Known as Godwin's Law, this rule of Usenet has
> a
> long and sordid history on the network - and is absolutely wrong."
>
>
>

usual suspect wrote:
> Beach Runner wrote:
>
>> It is a spiritual thing for me.
>
>
> It's your religion.
>
>> However, I love my parents, my brother,
>> my relatives, none of which are vegetarian. I accept them for who
>> they are.
>
>
> That's swell of you.
>
>> My father thanked me for keeping him alive by buying him a bike and
>> getting him to cut back on meat. Or at least, his cardio doctors
>> agree with me on that. I'm very proud, at 78 he rides his bike every
>> day.
>
>
> Good for him. The bike's probably done more than changes in diet,
> especially if he wasn't getting much exercise before. Exercise has a
> very beneficial effect on cardiac health, cholesterol levels, metabolic
> rate, etc.
>
>> I don't expect him to ever become a vegetarian. Or my brother.
>
>
> The question is, Do you ever suggest or recommend they alter their
> diets? You just admitted that you have, at least to your father.
Yes, I recommend more greens, whole grains, and a varied diet. Basically
I reinforce heart association recommends.
>

Yes, especially my mother who eats so much artificial garbage because it
tastes good. Also, she cosumes far too much processed flower with sugar
in it. I'd like to have her around.
>> It's interesting, if you read The Bone Density Diet, by Dr. Kessler,
>
>
> Not interesting.
>
>> voted the best professor at Albert Einstein School of Medicine, it has
>> many vegetarian recipes for improving bone health.

I would consider the foremost expert in Osteoporosis worth investigating.

>>
>> Of course, because most children drank so much soda, we have a silent
>> epidemic of osteoporosis in this nation, and everyone should have a
>> dexa scan.
>
It's very low density.
>
> Not everyone needs to be exposed to x-rays. People who are at risk of
> osteoporosis or other bone afflictions should discuss it with their
> doctors. They don't need someone in a newsgroup telling them they should
> have what is, for most people, an unnecessary medical test.
>
There are no warnings until you break a bone. The earlier the baseline
and diagnoses, the better.
>> The phosphoric acid in soda is the problem.
>
Because I had osteoporosis, my non vegetarian had the test, and it was
far worse. He thanked me for having flimsy toes. Now treatment can
begun at an early age.

>
> That can be a CONTRIBUTING factor, but it is not the root cause. If
> phosphoric acid were the main cause, males would be at the same risk of
> developing osteoporosis at nearly the same stages of live. That's not
> the case. See the following article about a possible genetic breakthrough.
>
We are finding many males do have it. Much more than thought. Read the
book.

> http://www.forbes.com/execpicks/2003...103decode.html
>
>> Interestingly, in countries that don't use dairy, osteoporosis is
>> virtually unknown.
>
In some the life span is longer than the US. In others, there's a
problem with infant mortality, but that still doesn't account for the
lack of osteoporosis. Read Dr. Kessler for his hypothesis. He also has
the leading center for Osteoporosis research.
>
> The average lifespan in those countries is so short that many diseases
> and conditions which affect us in old age never affect them.
>
Not all by any means.
>> I urge everyone to get a baseline dexa scan, even if you hate me for
>> being a vegan. You might just thank me for it.
>
>
So don't.