Starting to plan my holiday meal and wondering if there are any brands out
there other than Tofurkey for a tofu or seitan turkey that anyone could
recommend. Personally, I enjoyed the Tofurkey myself, but other family
members aren't too keen on it.
Thanks!
J>

"babychxhed" > wrote in message
...
> Starting to plan my holiday meal and wondering if there are any brands out
> there other than Tofurkey for a tofu or seitan turkey that anyone could
> recommend. Personally, I enjoyed the Tofurkey myself, but other family
> members aren't too keen on it.
> Thanks!
> J>
=======================
Do you really want to save the most number of animals from unnecessary death
and suffreing? I doubt it, but just in case, then just for one meal,
splurge and get a real turkey. get a free-range or wild turkey. Fresh,
local and it will cause far less suffering to animals overall, and have far
less impact on the environment. Plus, your family will love it. I could
never understand the fascination with making veggie mush look and taste like
meat. especially when the real thing is available in types that will cause
less death and suffering of animals overall. Soy beans are a process
intensive crop to make into those fake meats. Every step of its production,
processing, storage, and transportation cause animals to die unnecessarily.




>
>

babychxhed wrote:
> Starting to plan my holiday meal

Three weeks early? Do you have OCD?

> and wondering if there are any brands out
> there other than Tofurkey for a tofu or seitan turkey that anyone could
> recommend.

All you're showing is that vegans never truly get over their love for
the flavor of dead animal flesh. How is it compassionate when you
willingly seek out substitutes for the very thing you say you abhor and
that you think is an injustice? If you enjoy the *taste* of dead meat,
just eat dead meat. It's more compassionate to animals and less wasteful
of resources when you do that. It takes less than three pounds of feed
to make a pound of turkey. It takes more wheat and soy to make fake turkey.

Before one ends up with edible seitan, whole wheat has to be milled into
flour and then gluten is extracted by "washing" the starch out of dough.
Gluten makes up a small portion of wheat flour, so seitan is a very
inefficient use of wheat flour. It takes six to eight pounds of flour to
make one pound of seitan, or more than twice the amount of feed it takes
to make the same amount of turkey. The resulting protein in the seitan
isn't even complete, meaning it lacks certain essential amino acids.

The same is true with tofu. The finished product doesn't equate to a
pound-for-pound use of soybeans. Soybeans are boiled, milled, and
strained to make soy milk; the pulp, often called okara, can be consumed
in other products, but many tofu makers discard it (including to meat
producers). A coagulant is added to the soy milk. The curdle is pressed.
The water remaining from the coagulation and pressing is discarded. It's
a wasteful process. Tofu, like seitan, lacks certain essential amino
acids.

> Personally, I enjoyed the Tofurkey myself,

Only because you enjoy sanctimoniously thinking that you're a better
steward of resources and infinitely more compassionate to animals than
everyone else. All that wheat and soy result in multiple INTENTIONAL
animal deaths from pesticide use (in the fields and at storage
facilities) and multiple deaths from being sliced and run over by farm
machinery. You object only to the death of a turkey -- one animal -- yet
bury your head about all the mice, rats, birds, frogs, snakes, etc.,
killed in mechanized farming, transportation, and storage of your phony
meat substitutes.

Now that you know how wasteful seitan and tofu are, will you continue
eating food that results in more animal brutality?

> but other family members aren't too keen on it.

*sarcastically* Gee, I wonder why not. Could it be that they actually
prefer the taste of real turkey to fake?

rick etter wrote:
>>Starting to plan my holiday meal and wondering if there are any brands out
>>there other than Tofurkey for a tofu or seitan turkey that anyone could
>>recommend. Personally, I enjoyed the Tofurkey myself, but other family
>>members aren't too keen on it.
>>Thanks!
>
> =======================
> Do you really want to save the most number of animals from unnecessary death
> and suffreing? I doubt it, but just in case, then just for one meal,
> splurge and get a real turkey. get a free-range or wild turkey.

Or buy some turkey poults and raise your own. That way you know exactly
what it was fed, how it was treated, and when it was slaughtered. You
can get wild or domestic breeds, too.
http://www.strombergschickens.com/stock/turkeys.htm
http://www.townlinehatchery.com/fowl.html
http://www.welphatchery.com/turkeys/rio_grande.asp
http://www.welphatchery.com/turkeys/bronze.asp

> Fresh,
> local and it will cause far less suffering to animals overall, and have far
> less impact on the environment.

Plenty of local farmers offer fresh poultry, slaughtered on the spot or
sold live. The OP should look online or at a local farmer's market.
He/she can get turkey, duck, pheasant, or whatever his/her family enjoys.

> Plus, your family will love it.

They'll enjoy it much more than that phony, over-processed soy-gluten shit.

> I could
> never understand the fascination with making veggie mush look and taste like
> meat.

That's what's always been strange about vegans to me: they whine and
bitch about "icky" flesh but still long for the taste of meat
substitutes like Tofurkey and Yves products. It's hypocritical. If you
really object to eating dead flesh, eat some beans instead of fake dead
flesh or stop nagging others about the flavor of "rotting" flesh.

> especially when the real thing is available in types that will cause
> less death and suffering of animals overall. Soy beans are a process
> intensive crop to make into those fake meats. Every step of its production,
> processing, storage, and transportation cause animals to die unnecessarily.

I was a bit conservative in my description of seitan processing. Average
wheat flour contains about 13% protein, and gluten accounts for 80% of
that. A pound of vital gluten, then, would require over 9.5 pounds of
flour. It would then have to be hyrated if it were purchased already
processed. Much of the weight of seitan is going to be water, but one
uses a tremendous amount of water when washing out the starch to make
seitan on one's own. No matter how you cut it, it's wasteful of grain
and water resources and requires more water and grain per pound than a
turkey would.

http://www.vegan-food.net/index.cgi?889

If you are up for making one yourself, I have found the one linked
above tastes better by leaps and bounds over the store bought ones.

usual suspect > wrote in
:

> babychxhed wrote:
>> Starting to plan my holiday meal
>
> Three weeks early? Do you have OCD?
>
>> and wondering if there are any brands out
>> there other than Tofurkey for a tofu or seitan turkey that anyone
>> could recommend.
>
> All you're showing is that vegans never truly get over their love for
> the flavor of dead animal flesh. How is it compassionate when you
> willingly seek out substitutes for the very thing you say you abhor
> and that you think is an injustice? If you enjoy the *taste* of dead
> meat, just eat dead meat. It's more compassionate to animals and less
> wasteful of resources when you do that. It takes less than three
> pounds of feed to make a pound of turkey. It takes more wheat and soy
> to make fake turkey.
>
> Before one ends up with edible seitan, whole wheat has to be milled
> into flour and then gluten is extracted by "washing" the starch out of
> dough. Gluten makes up a small portion of wheat flour, so seitan is a
> very inefficient use of wheat flour. It takes six to eight pounds of
> flour to make one pound of seitan, or more than twice the amount of
> feed it takes to make the same amount of turkey. The resulting protein
> in the seitan isn't even complete, meaning it lacks certain essential
> amino acids.
>
> The same is true with tofu. The finished product doesn't equate to a
> pound-for-pound use of soybeans. Soybeans are boiled, milled, and
> strained to make soy milk; the pulp, often called okara, can be
> consumed in other products, but many tofu makers discard it (including
> to meat producers). A coagulant is added to the soy milk. The curdle
> is pressed. The water remaining from the coagulation and pressing is
> discarded. It's a wasteful process. Tofu, like seitan, lacks certain
> essential amino acids.
>
>> Personally, I enjoyed the Tofurkey myself,
>
> Only because you enjoy sanctimoniously thinking that you're a better
> steward of resources and infinitely more compassionate to animals than
> everyone else. All that wheat and soy result in multiple INTENTIONAL
> animal deaths from pesticide use (in the fields and at storage
> facilities) and multiple deaths from being sliced and run over by farm
> machinery. You object only to the death of a turkey -- one animal --
> yet bury your head about all the mice, rats, birds, frogs, snakes,
> etc., killed in mechanized farming, transportation, and storage of
> your phony meat substitutes.
>
> Now that you know how wasteful seitan and tofu are, will you continue
> eating food that results in more animal brutality?
>
>> but other family members aren't too keen on it.
>
> *sarcastically* Gee, I wonder why not. Could it be that they actually
> prefer the taste of real turkey to fake?
>

good god, now I remember why I stopped looking at this newsgroup

I dont understand why you post in here when you know no one likes it ...
dont bother replying, you're on the off list

"lostcherree" > wrote in message
...
> usual suspect > wrote in
> :
>
>> babychxhed wrote:
>>> Starting to plan my holiday meal
>>
>> Three weeks early? Do you have OCD?
>>
>>> and wondering if there are any brands out
>>> there other than Tofurkey for a tofu or seitan turkey that anyone
>>> could recommend.
>>
>> All you're showing is that vegans never truly get over their love for
>> the flavor of dead animal flesh. How is it compassionate when you
>> willingly seek out substitutes for the very thing you say you abhor
>> and that you think is an injustice? If you enjoy the *taste* of dead
>> meat, just eat dead meat. It's more compassionate to animals and less
>> wasteful of resources when you do that. It takes less than three
>> pounds of feed to make a pound of turkey. It takes more wheat and soy
>> to make fake turkey.
>>
>> Before one ends up with edible seitan, whole wheat has to be milled
>> into flour and then gluten is extracted by "washing" the starch out of
>> dough. Gluten makes up a small portion of wheat flour, so seitan is a
>> very inefficient use of wheat flour. It takes six to eight pounds of
>> flour to make one pound of seitan, or more than twice the amount of
>> feed it takes to make the same amount of turkey. The resulting protein
>> in the seitan isn't even complete, meaning it lacks certain essential
>> amino acids.
>>
>> The same is true with tofu. The finished product doesn't equate to a
>> pound-for-pound use of soybeans. Soybeans are boiled, milled, and
>> strained to make soy milk; the pulp, often called okara, can be
>> consumed in other products, but many tofu makers discard it (including
>> to meat producers). A coagulant is added to the soy milk. The curdle
>> is pressed. The water remaining from the coagulation and pressing is
>> discarded. It's a wasteful process. Tofu, like seitan, lacks certain
>> essential amino acids.
>>
>>> Personally, I enjoyed the Tofurkey myself,
>>
>> Only because you enjoy sanctimoniously thinking that you're a better
>> steward of resources and infinitely more compassionate to animals than
>> everyone else. All that wheat and soy result in multiple INTENTIONAL
>> animal deaths from pesticide use (in the fields and at storage
>> facilities) and multiple deaths from being sliced and run over by farm
>> machinery. You object only to the death of a turkey -- one animal --
>> yet bury your head about all the mice, rats, birds, frogs, snakes,
>> etc., killed in mechanized farming, transportation, and storage of
>> your phony meat substitutes.
>>
>> Now that you know how wasteful seitan and tofu are, will you continue
>> eating food that results in more animal brutality?
>>
>>> but other family members aren't too keen on it.
>>
>> *sarcastically* Gee, I wonder why not. Could it be that they actually
>> prefer the taste of real turkey to fake?
>>
>
> good god, now I remember why I stopped looking at this newsgroup
================
What? You just got reminded of the stupidity and lys behind all your vegan
ignorance?


>
> I dont understand why you post in here when you know no one likes it ...
> dont bother replying, you're on the off list
=================
So what? The braindead, like you, are already too far gone.... Maybe
though the newer ones can still be 'saved' from the ignorance of the vegan
religion.

lostcherree wrote:
>>>Starting to plan my holiday meal
>>
>>Three weeks early? Do you have OCD?
>>
>>
>>>and wondering if there are any brands out
>>>there other than Tofurkey for a tofu or seitan turkey that anyone
>>>could recommend.
>>
>>All you're showing is that vegans never truly get over their love for
>>the flavor of dead animal flesh. How is it compassionate when you
>>willingly seek out substitutes for the very thing you say you abhor
>>and that you think is an injustice? If you enjoy the *taste* of dead
>>meat, just eat dead meat. It's more compassionate to animals and less
>>wasteful of resources when you do that. It takes less than three
>>pounds of feed to make a pound of turkey. It takes more wheat and soy
>>to make fake turkey.
>>
>>Before one ends up with edible seitan, whole wheat has to be milled
>>into flour and then gluten is extracted by "washing" the starch out of
>>dough. Gluten makes up a small portion of wheat flour, so seitan is a
>>very inefficient use of wheat flour. It takes six to eight pounds of
>>flour to make one pound of seitan, or more than twice the amount of
>>feed it takes to make the same amount of turkey. The resulting protein
>>in the seitan isn't even complete, meaning it lacks certain essential
>>amino acids.
>>
>>The same is true with tofu. The finished product doesn't equate to a
>>pound-for-pound use of soybeans. Soybeans are boiled, milled, and
>>strained to make soy milk; the pulp, often called okara, can be
>>consumed in other products, but many tofu makers discard it (including
>>to meat producers). A coagulant is added to the soy milk. The curdle
>>is pressed. The water remaining from the coagulation and pressing is
>>discarded. It's a wasteful process. Tofu, like seitan, lacks certain
>>essential amino acids.
>>
>>
>>>Personally, I enjoyed the Tofurkey myself,
>>
>>Only because you enjoy sanctimoniously thinking that you're a better
>>steward of resources and infinitely more compassionate to animals than
>>everyone else. All that wheat and soy result in multiple INTENTIONAL
>>animal deaths from pesticide use (in the fields and at storage
>>facilities) and multiple deaths from being sliced and run over by farm
>>machinery. You object only to the death of a turkey -- one animal --
>>yet bury your head about all the mice, rats, birds, frogs, snakes,
>>etc., killed in mechanized farming, transportation, and storage of
>>your phony meat substitutes.
>>
>>Now that you know how wasteful seitan and tofu are, will you continue
>>eating food that results in more animal brutality?
>>
>>
>>>but other family members aren't too keen on it.
>>
>>*sarcastically* Gee, I wonder why not. Could it be that they actually
>>prefer the taste of real turkey to fake?
>
> good god, now I remember why I stopped looking at this newsgroup

Hey sweeeeeeeeeeeet thaaaaaaaaang!

> I dont understand why you post in here when you know no one likes it ...
> dont bother replying, you're on the off list

Already? Damn. That only took four days.

usual suspect wrote:

> rick etter wrote:
>
>>> Starting to plan my holiday meal and wondering if there are any
>>> brands out
>>> there other than Tofurkey for a tofu or seitan turkey that anyone could
>>> recommend. Personally, I enjoyed the Tofurkey myself, but other family
>>> members aren't too keen on it.
>>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>> =======================
>> Do you really want to save the most number of animals from unnecessary
>> death and suffreing? I doubt it, but just in case, then just for one
>> meal, splurge and get a real turkey. get a free-range or wild turkey.
>
People who don't eat meat and suddenly eat meat get sick. It's also
against my philosophy. Incidentally, by wife's gastrologist recommended
a vegetarian diet for various reasons. It has helped significantly.

Beached Runt wrote:
<...>
> People who don't eat meat and suddenly eat meat get sick.

Bullshit. Some people may have psychosomatic reactions from
self-conditioning themselves to think eating meat is wrong or "gross,"
but most people are able to eat it without any ill feeling.

Just consider how many posters here over the years have been shocked to
learn that something they ate contained meat or micrograms of animal
parts, but who never got sick at the time they actually ate it. Indeed,
many of them continued consuming the same food(s) without ill effect. Or
consider when Aunt Betty has a guilty conscience and tells her niece a
week after the fact that she used real ground beef instead of the fake
stuff she meant to use in the lasanga. The niece doesn't have any bad
feelings UNTIL Aunt Betty tells her.

> It's also against my philosophy.

Stupid people like you have stupid philosophies.

> Incidentally,

Oh, an anecdote. The vegan's favorite "proof."

> by wife's gastrologist recommended
> a vegetarian diet for various reasons. It has helped significantly.

Post hoc fallacy. Your wife was seeing a *specialist*. You shouldn't
recommend others follow what your ailing wife was prescribed by a
specialist.

lostcherree wrote:
>>>Starting to plan my holiday meal
>>
>>Three weeks early? Do you have OCD?
>>
>>
>>>and wondering if there are any brands out
>>>there other than Tofurkey for a tofu or seitan turkey that anyone
>>>could recommend.
>>
>>All you're showing is that vegans never truly get over their love for
>>the flavor of dead animal flesh. How is it compassionate when you
>>willingly seek out substitutes for the very thing you say you abhor
>>and that you think is an injustice? If you enjoy the *taste* of dead
>>meat, just eat dead meat. It's more compassionate to animals and less
>>wasteful of resources when you do that. It takes less than three
>>pounds of feed to make a pound of turkey. It takes more wheat and soy
>>to make fake turkey.
>>
>>Before one ends up with edible seitan, whole wheat has to be milled
>>into flour and then gluten is extracted by "washing" the starch out of
>>dough. Gluten makes up a small portion of wheat flour, so seitan is a
>>very inefficient use of wheat flour. It takes six to eight pounds of
>>flour to make one pound of seitan, or more than twice the amount of
>>feed it takes to make the same amount of turkey. The resulting protein
>>in the seitan isn't even complete, meaning it lacks certain essential
>>amino acids.
>>
>>The same is true with tofu. The finished product doesn't equate to a
>>pound-for-pound use of soybeans. Soybeans are boiled, milled, and
>>strained to make soy milk; the pulp, often called okara, can be
>>consumed in other products, but many tofu makers discard it (including
>>to meat producers). A coagulant is added to the soy milk. The curdle
>>is pressed. The water remaining from the coagulation and pressing is
>>discarded. It's a wasteful process. Tofu, like seitan, lacks certain
>>essential amino acids.
>>
>>
>>>Personally, I enjoyed the Tofurkey myself,
>>
>>Only because you enjoy sanctimoniously thinking that you're a better
>>steward of resources and infinitely more compassionate to animals than
>>everyone else. All that wheat and soy result in multiple INTENTIONAL
>>animal deaths from pesticide use (in the fields and at storage
>>facilities) and multiple deaths from being sliced and run over by farm
>>machinery. You object only to the death of a turkey -- one animal --
>>yet bury your head about all the mice, rats, birds, frogs, snakes,
>>etc., killed in mechanized farming, transportation, and storage of
>>your phony meat substitutes.
>>
>>Now that you know how wasteful seitan and tofu are, will you continue
>>eating food that results in more animal brutality?
>>
>>
>>>but other family members aren't too keen on it.
>>
>>*sarcastically* Gee, I wonder why not. Could it be that they actually
>>prefer the taste of real turkey to fake?
>
> good god, now I remember why I stopped looking at this newsgroup

Because you like wasting resources and being cruel to animals?

> I dont understand why you post in here when you know no one likes it ...
> dont bother replying, you're on the off list

If your family didn't like fake meat, would you still demand they eat it
or would you be a gracious and hospitable hostess and cater to their
personal tastes? Or do you just expect everyone else to be hospitable
and cater to your weird demands?