OUr trolls have a point. Plant manufacturing, with mono plants poured
with chemical fertilizer is definitely a problems. As such, I try and
purchase as much organic produce as possible. During the depression huge
conglomerates purchased most farms. Back at the turn of the century most
people were farmers. No longer of course.

During WW II we had victory gardens, a great habit.
Sprouting is a great source of food.
And of course, organic produce should we composted. While there are
fancy compost machines, piles of compost work well, just slower and
require turning.

The reality is the US is losing huge amounts of top soil per year and as
individuals we can help protect it.

Beach Runner wrote:
> OUr trolls have a point.

Which makes them participants, NOT trolls.

> Plant manufacturing,

It's called FARMING, nitwit.

> with mono plants poured
> with chemical fertilizer is definitely a problems.

Is English your second language?

> As such, I try and
> purchase as much organic produce as possible.

Organic does not mean free of pesticides or chemicals -- it means free
of SYNTHETIC substances. Organic farmers (or "plant manufacturers" if
that makes you happy) still use natural versions of the very same
substances on their crops.

IF you buy organic food because you think it's free of the
cancer-causing pesticides used on other farms, think again.
"Organic" farmers routinely spray their crops with naturally
occurring pesticides - and the U.S. Environmental Protection
Agency has classified pyrethrum, a top organic pesticide, as a
"likely human carcinogen."

Feeling paranoid yet? Well, in fact, the EPA made that call in
secret, almost two years ago! The revelation about pyrethrum,
with other recent findings, calls into question the superiority
of organic farming.

For decades, activists have claimed that organic food is
healthier and kinder to the environment than "chemically farmed"
food. Organic farmers, for example, didn't use synthetic
pesticides.

What most people don't realize - and activists try to hide - is
that organic farmers are allowed to use a wide array of natural
chemicals as pest killers. Moreover, these natural poisons pose
the same theoretical (but remote) dangers as the synthetic
pesticides so hated by organic devotees.
http://www.hudson.org/index.cfm?fuse...etails&id=1107

Check out the information at that link. You're buying stuff that may
have been exposed to 2-7 times the amount of pesticide as is used on
conventionally-grown produce. Conventional produce is also tested for
residue -- organic isn't even with the potential of more applications of
pesticide. Is it really safer for you or the environment?

> During the depression huge
> conglomerates purchased most farms.

Bullshit.

> Back at the turn of the century most
> people were farmers. No longer of course.

Non sequitur. It has to do with technology, you dipstick. You may as
well have pointed out that EVERYONE hunted and gathered a few milennia ago.

> During WW II we had victory gardens, a great habit.

Nobody's forbidding you from growing your own food. It would be a noble
endeavor.

> Sprouting is a great source of food.

It's also a great source of food borne illness!
http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~lrd/hhssprts.html
http://www.foodnavigator.com/news/ne...outs-linked-to
Etc.

> And of course, organic produce should we composted. While there are
> fancy compost machines, piles of compost work well, just slower and
> require turning.

Conventional stuff can be composted, too. The halflives of synthetic
pesticides are similar to the halflives of natural ones used by organic
farmers.

> The reality is the US is losing huge amounts of top soil per year and as
> individuals we can help protect it.

Beach Runner wrote:
> OUr trolls have a point.

Which makes them participants, NOT trolls.

> Plant manufacturing,

It's called FARMING, nitwit.

> with mono plants poured
> with chemical fertilizer is definitely a problems.

Is English your second language?

> As such, I try and
> purchase as much organic produce as possible.

Organic does not mean free of pesticides or chemicals -- it means free
of SYNTHETIC substances. Organic farmers (or "plant manufacturers" if
that makes you happy) still use natural versions of the very same
substances on their crops.

IF you buy organic food because you think it's free of the
cancer-causing pesticides used on other farms, think again.
"Organic" farmers routinely spray their crops with naturally
occurring pesticides - and the U.S. Environmental Protection
Agency has classified pyrethrum, a top organic pesticide, as a
"likely human carcinogen."

Feeling paranoid yet? Well, in fact, the EPA made that call in
secret, almost two years ago! The revelation about pyrethrum,
with other recent findings, calls into question the superiority
of organic farming.

For decades, activists have claimed that organic food is
healthier and kinder to the environment than "chemically farmed"
food. Organic farmers, for example, didn't use synthetic
pesticides.

What most people don't realize - and activists try to hide - is
that organic farmers are allowed to use a wide array of natural
chemicals as pest killers. Moreover, these natural poisons pose
the same theoretical (but remote) dangers as the synthetic
pesticides so hated by organic devotees.
http://www.hudson.org/index.cfm?fuse...etails&id=1107

Check out the information at that link. You're buying stuff that may
have been exposed to 2-7 times the amount of pesticide as is used on
conventionally-grown produce. Conventional produce is also tested for
residue -- organic isn't even with the potential of more applications of
pesticide. Is it really safer for you or the environment?

> During the depression huge
> conglomerates purchased most farms.

Bullshit.

> Back at the turn of the century most
> people were farmers. No longer of course.

Non sequitur. It has to do with technology, you dipstick. You may as
well have pointed out that EVERYONE hunted and gathered a few milennia ago.

> During WW II we had victory gardens, a great habit.

Nobody's forbidding you from growing your own food. It would be a noble
endeavor.

> Sprouting is a great source of food.

It's also a great source of food borne illness!
http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~lrd/hhssprts.html
http://www.foodnavigator.com/news/ne...outs-linked-to
Etc.

> And of course, organic produce should we composted. While there are
> fancy compost machines, piles of compost work well, just slower and
> require turning.

Conventional stuff can be composted, too. The halflives of synthetic
pesticides are similar to the halflives of natural ones used by organic
farmers.

> The reality is the US is losing huge amounts of top soil per year and as
> individuals we can help protect it.

"Beach Runner" > wrote in message
news
> OUr trolls have a point. Plant manufacturing, with mono plants poured with
> chemical fertilizer is definitely a problems. As such, I try and purchase
> as much organic produce as possible. During the depression huge
> conglomerates purchased most farms. Back at the turn of the century most
> people were farmers. No longer of course.
========================
What part of organic "plant production" don't you understand. Organic does
not mean cruelty-free or chemical free, killer. In fact, some organic
pesticides are more deadly and toxic than synthetics. Plus in some cases
they have to be spread more often, and at larger levels than synthetics.
With organic farming at 3% of total farming, they use over 25% of all
pesticides from all farms in the US.

see this site:
http://www.cgfi.org/materials/key_pu...oxic_Tools.pdf


>
> During WW II we had victory gardens, a great habit.
> Sprouting is a great source of food.
> And of course, organic produce should we composted. While there are fancy
> compost machines, piles of compost work well, just slower and require
> turning.
>
> The reality is the US is losing huge amounts of top soil per year and as
> individuals we can help protect it.
=================
Yep, get out of the crop eating business and eat grass-fed beef, free-range
animals, and game!

"Beach Runner" > wrote in message
news
> OUr trolls have a point. Plant manufacturing, with mono plants poured with
> chemical fertilizer is definitely a problems. As such, I try and purchase
> as much organic produce as possible. During the depression huge
> conglomerates purchased most farms. Back at the turn of the century most
> people were farmers. No longer of course.
========================
What part of organic "plant production" don't you understand. Organic does
not mean cruelty-free or chemical free, killer. In fact, some organic
pesticides are more deadly and toxic than synthetics. Plus in some cases
they have to be spread more often, and at larger levels than synthetics.
With organic farming at 3% of total farming, they use over 25% of all
pesticides from all farms in the US.

see this site:
http://www.cgfi.org/materials/key_pu...oxic_Tools.pdf


>
> During WW II we had victory gardens, a great habit.
> Sprouting is a great source of food.
> And of course, organic produce should we composted. While there are fancy
> compost machines, piles of compost work well, just slower and require
> turning.
>
> The reality is the US is losing huge amounts of top soil per year and as
> individuals we can help protect it.
=================
Yep, get out of the crop eating business and eat grass-fed beef, free-range
animals, and game!

usual suspect wrote:
> Beach Runner wrote:
>
>> OUr trolls have a point.
>
>
> Which makes them participants, NOT trolls.
No you attack everything vegan in a vegan group.
>
>> Plant manufacturing,
>
>
> It's called FARMING, nitwit.
>
No, organic farming generally mixes plant varieties using natural defenses.
>> with mono plants poured with chemical fertilizer is definitely a
>> problems.
>
>
> Is English your second language?
>
No, and the language is clear. Mono plant culture uses vast quantities
of phosphates and other chemical fertilizer. You can't read as a second
language?
>> As such, I try and purchase as much organic produce as possible.
>
>
> Organic does not mean free of pesticides or chemicals -- it means free
> of SYNTHETIC substances. Organic farmers (or "plant manufacturers" if
> that makes you happy) still use natural versions of the very same
> substances on their crops.
>
Yes, free of artificial chemicals, and the use of mixed flora.
> IF you buy organic food because you think it's free of the
> cancer-causing pesticides used on other farms, think again.
> "Organic" farmers routinely spray their crops with naturally
> occurring pesticides - and the U.S. Environmental Protection
> Agency has classified pyrethrum, a top organic pesticide, as a
> "likely human carcinogen."
>
> Feeling paranoid yet? Well, in fact, the EPA made that call in
> secret, almost two years ago! The revelation about pyrethrum,
> with other recent findings, calls into question the superiority
> of organic farming.
The EPA chief resigned because of the Bush administration anti
environmental regulations.
>
> For decades, activists have claimed that organic food is
> healthier and kinder to the environment than "chemically farmed"
> food. Organic farmers, for example, didn't use synthetic
> pesticides.
>
> What most people don't realize - and activists try to hide - is
> that organic farmers are allowed to use a wide array of natural
> chemicals as pest killers. Moreover, these natural poisons pose
> the same theoretical (but remote) dangers as the synthetic
> pesticides so hated by organic devotees.
> http://www.hudson.org/index.cfm?fuse...etails&id=1107
>
> Check out the information at that link. You're buying stuff that may
> have been exposed to 2-7 times the amount of pesticide as is used on
> conventionally-grown produce. Conventional produce is also tested for
> residue -- organic isn't even with the potential of more applications of
> pesticide. Is it really safer for you or the environment?
>
Yes, it has been proven versus artificial chemicals and broad and
pesticides. Like Roundup Ready produce by Monsanto.
>> During the depression huge conglomerates purchased most farms.
>
>
> Bullshit.
>
Not bullshit. History. Read history.
>> Back at the turn of the century most people were farmers. No longer of
>> course.
>
>
> Non sequitur. It has to do with technology, you dipstick. You may as
> well have pointed out that EVERYONE hunted and gathered a few milennia ago.
>
Read your history.
>> During WW II we had victory gardens, a great habit.
>
>
> Nobody's forbidding you from growing your own food. It would be a noble
> endeavor.

> I do. with no pesitcides.

>> Sprouting is a great source of food.
>
>
> It's also a great source of food borne illness!
> http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~lrd/hhssprts.html
> http://www.foodnavigator.com/news/ne...outs-linked-to
> Etc.
and very healthy food. Just change the water daily.
too bad you go to a vegan new group to stir up trouble.

>
>> And of course, organic produce should we composted. While there are
>> fancy compost machines, piles of compost work well, just slower and
>> require turning.
>
>
> Conventional stuff can be composted, too. The halflives of synthetic
> pesticides are similar to the halflives of natural ones used by organic
> farmers.
>
>> The reality is the US is losing huge amounts of top soil per year and
>> as individuals we can help protect it.

Beach Runner wrote:
<...>
>>> with mono plants poured with chemical fertilizer is definitely a
>>> problems.
>>
>> Is English your second language?
>>
> No, and the language is clear.

Your grammar is atrocious. My six year-old niece writes better than you.

> Mono plant culture uses vast quantities
> of phosphates and other chemical fertilizer.

Commercial organic uses vast quantities of phosphates, too, just in
different forms. The only differences between conventional and organic
are that conventional allows for the use of certain quantities of
synthetics and residues are tested, while organics have no restrictions
on the natural forms of the same pesticides and fertilizers and are
never tested for residues. Pyrethrum, a NATURAL and ORGANIC pesticide
applied widely to organic crops in the US, is listed by EPA as a carcinogen.

<...>
>> Organic does not mean free of pesticides or chemicals -- it means free
>> of SYNTHETIC substances. Organic farmers (or "plant manufacturers" if
>> that makes you happy) still use natural versions of the very same
>> substances on their crops.
>
> Yes, free of artificial chemicals, and the use of mixed flora.

Are you on LSD or something? They're the same ****ing chemicals.

Conventional: Pyrethrin (carcinogen)
Organic: Pyrethrum (carcinogen)

One comes from 'natural' sources and the other is synthesized. Both are
lethal to man, beast, and pest. Application of the conventional form
is highly regulated. Application of the organic form is entirely
unregulated. The conventional form is standardized so multiple
applications are minimized. The organic form is not standardized, and
organic farmers use 2-7 times as much pyrethrum as a conventional farmer
would use pyrethrin. Only conventional produce is tested for residues
despite the fact that organic farmers use 2-7 times the amount of the
same chemical -- just a natural version rather than a synthesized one.

Keep consuming the untested stuff, but remember who warned you that it
has the same chemical on it as the stuff you ignorantly avoid.

>> IF you buy organic food because you think it's free of the
>> cancer-causing pesticides used on other farms, think again.
>> "Organic" farmers routinely spray their crops with naturally
>> occurring pesticides - and the U.S. Environmental Protection
>> Agency has classified pyrethrum, a top organic pesticide, as a
>> "likely human carcinogen."
>>
>> Feeling paranoid yet? Well, in fact, the EPA made that call in
>> secret, almost two years ago! The revelation about pyrethrum,
>> with other recent findings, calls into question the superiority
>> of organic farming.
>
> The EPA chief resigned because of the Bush administration anti
> environmental regulations.

Do you get your news from Phil Hendrie's "News Even Football Players Can
Understand"? Christie Todd Whitman left her post at EPA to spend more
time with family:

As rewarding as the past two-and-a-half years have been for me
professionally, it is time to return to my home and husband in
New Jersey, which I love just as you do your home state of
Texas. I leave knowing that we have made a positive difference
and that we have set the Agency on a course that will result in
continued environmental improvement. Please accept my deepest
thanks for the opportunity to serve our country in your
Administration and my every good wish for continued success in
leading the Nation in these challenging times.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/...ter/index.html

You bungling twit.

>> For decades, activists have claimed that organic food is
>> healthier and kinder to the environment than "chemically farmed"
>> food. Organic farmers, for example, didn't use synthetic
>> pesticides.
>>
>> What most people don't realize - and activists try to hide - is
>> that organic farmers are allowed to use a wide array of natural
>> chemicals as pest killers. Moreover, these natural poisons pose
>> the same theoretical (but remote) dangers as the synthetic
>> pesticides so hated by organic devotees.
>> http://www.hudson.org/index.cfm?fuse...etails&id=1107
>>
>> Check out the information at that link. You're buying stuff that may
>> have been exposed to 2-7 times the amount of pesticide as is used on
>> conventionally-grown produce. Conventional produce is also tested for
>> residue -- organic isn't even with the potential of more applications
>> of pesticide. Is it really safer for you or the environment?
>
> Yes, it has been proven versus artificial chemicals and broad and
> pesticides. Like Roundup Ready produce by Monsanto.

Organic produce isn't tested for residue. How can you make a claim that
it's "proven"?!

>>> During the depression huge conglomerates purchased most farms.
>>
>> Bullshit.
>>
> Not bullshit. History. Read history.

It's bullshit.

>>> Back at the turn of the century most people were farmers. No longer
>>> of course.
>>
>> Non sequitur. It has to do with technology, you dipstick. You may as
>> well have pointed out that EVERYONE hunted and gathered a few milennia
>> ago.
>
> Read your history.

I have. That's why I corrected you that technological advances meant
fewer people actually had to work the fields. The transition from
farming to manufacturing (and now to the information age) began long
before the Depression.

>>> During WW II we had victory gardens, a great habit.
>>
>> Nobody's forbidding you from growing your own food. It would be a
>> noble endeavor.
>
>> I do. with no pesitcides.

Good for you. Most people, though, purchase organic produce thinking
it's free of pesticides. It isn't free of pesticides, just free of the
synthetic versions of the same cancer-causing chemicals organic farmers
apply to their crops more frequently.

>>> Sprouting is a great source of food.
>>
>> It's also a great source of food borne illness!
>> http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~lrd/hhssprts.html
>> http://www.foodnavigator.com/news/ne...outs-linked-to
>> Etc.
>
> and very healthy food. Just change the water daily.

Read the links. Just changing the water doesn't create sterile growing
conditions.

> too bad you go to a vegan new group to stir up trouble.

You mean too bad I keep having to correct morons like you who peddle
misinformation and disinformation. I'll remember you for willfully lying
about the ADA and UCS advocating a vegan diet and then saying it was a
****ing typo (lol) if for nothing else. You're a clueless jellyhead. You
should count your blessings that other people are willing to point you
to the truth.

>>> And of course, organic produce should we composted. While there are
>>> fancy compost machines, piles of compost work well, just slower and
>>> require turning.
>>
>> Conventional stuff can be composted, too. The halflives of synthetic
>> pesticides are similar to the halflives of natural ones used by
>> organic farmers.
>>
>>> The reality is the US is losing huge amounts of top soil per year and
>>> as individuals we can help protect it.

usual suspect wrote:
> Beach Runner wrote:
>>>> with mono plants poured with chemical fertilizer is definitely a
>>>> problems.
>>>
>>> Is English your second language?
>>>
>> No, and the language is clear.
>
> Your grammar is atrocious. My six year-old niece writes better than you.

Your posts look like you learned to write from reading Chinglish
instructions or from playing video games.
http://www.planettribes.com/allyourbase/story.shtml

"usual suspect" > wrote in message
...
> Beach Runner wrote:


> > Mono plant culture uses vast quantities
> > of phosphates and other chemical fertilizer.
>
> Commercial organic uses vast quantities of phosphates, too, just in
> different forms. The only differences between conventional and organic
> are that conventional allows for the use of certain quantities of
> synthetics and residues are tested, while organics have no restrictions
> on the natural forms of the same pesticides and fertilizers and are
> never tested for residues. Pyrethrum, a NATURAL and ORGANIC pesticide
> applied widely to organic crops in the US, is listed by EPA as a
carcinogen.

While you are correct is saying that pyrethrum is an approved organic
pesticide, only a very small percentage of organic farmers actually use it.
It's considered a "last resort" among organic pesticides. Your statement
that it is "applied widely to organic crops in the US" is misleading.

One of Rick Etters most bizarre unsupported claims is that organic farmers use disproportionate amounts of pesticides compared to agrochem farmers. In fact organic produce has about 1 third the number of pesticide residues or agrochem food*, and in lower amounts.

The article below explains why this is.

http://www.mindfully.org/Food/Organi...ides8may02.htm

John



*Frequency of pesticide residues in fresh fruits and vegetables by market claim Pesticide Data Program, 1994-99.
KEY .
A Number of samples
B Number of positives
C Per cent positive
Organic IPM/NDR No market claim .
A B C A B C A B C
Fruits
Apples 1 0 - 20 10 50 2294 2150 94
Bananas 1 0 - 11 4 36 1134 658 58
Cantaloupe 3 1 33 0 0 - 1242 603 49
Grapes 4 1 25 12 4 33 1891 1481 78
Oranges 7 1 14 13 7 54 1899 1616 85
Peaches 2 1 50 10 5 50 1107 1035 93
Pears 4 1 25 0 0 - 1777 1689 95
Strawberries 8 2 25 5 5 100 1268 1160 91
All fruit 30 7 23 71 35 49 12612 10392 82

Vegetables
Broccoli 2 1 50 18 7 39 674 171 25
Carrots 18 4 22 21 7 33 1874 1359 73
Celery 2 1 50 4 2 50 173 166 96
Cucumbers 10 2 20 1 0 - 723 533 74
Green beans 3 0 - 24 10 42 1169 689 59
Lettuce 3 1 33 21 8 38 860 428 50
Potatoes 4 1 25 20 10 50 1386 1117 81
Spinach 19 9 47 7 7 100 1645 1380 84
Sweet bell peppers 11 1 9 0 0 - 722 500 69
Sweet potatoes 6 1 17 1 1 100 1557 999 64
Tomatoes 10 0 - 5 4 80 1971 1254 64
Winter squash 9 1 11 2 0 0 1205 497 41
All vegetables 97 22 23 124 56 45 13959 9093 65
All fresh foods 127 29 23 195 91 47 26571 19485 73'IPM/NDR' includes 'No Detectable Residues' samples with the market claims 'PDP No Pesticides Detected', 'PDP Pesticide Free', 'SpecialityNo Pesticides Detected' and 'SpecialityPesticide Free'. These market claims are typicallyaccompanied bya requirement that integrated pest management
systems also be used. 'Organic' includes samples with the market claims 'PDP Organic' and 'SpecialityOrganic'.

Source:
B. P. Baker, C. M. Benbrook, E. Groth III and K. Lutz Benbrook. Pesticide residues in conventional, integrated pest management (IPM)-grown and organic foods: insights from three US data sets. Food Additives and Contaminants, 2002, Vol. 19, No. 5, 427-446

One of Rick Etters most bizarre unsupported claims is that organic farmers use disproportionate amounts of pesticides compared to agrochem farmers. In fact organic produce has about 1 third the number of pesticide residues or agrochem food*, and in lower amounts.

The article below explains why this is.

http://www.mindfully.org/Food/Organi...ides8may02.htm

John



*Frequency of pesticide residues in fresh fruits and vegetables by market claim Pesticide Data Program, 1994-99.
KEY .
A Number of samples
B Number of positives
C Per cent positive
Organic IPM/NDR No market claim .
A B C A B C A B C
Fruits
Apples 1 0 - 20 10 50 2294 2150 94
Bananas 1 0 - 11 4 36 1134 658 58
Cantaloupe 3 1 33 0 0 - 1242 603 49
Grapes 4 1 25 12 4 33 1891 1481 78
Oranges 7 1 14 13 7 54 1899 1616 85
Peaches 2 1 50 10 5 50 1107 1035 93
Pears 4 1 25 0 0 - 1777 1689 95
Strawberries 8 2 25 5 5 100 1268 1160 91
All fruit 30 7 23 71 35 49 12612 10392 82

Vegetables
Broccoli 2 1 50 18 7 39 674 171 25
Carrots 18 4 22 21 7 33 1874 1359 73
Celery 2 1 50 4 2 50 173 166 96
Cucumbers 10 2 20 1 0 - 723 533 74
Green beans 3 0 - 24 10 42 1169 689 59
Lettuce 3 1 33 21 8 38 860 428 50
Potatoes 4 1 25 20 10 50 1386 1117 81
Spinach 19 9 47 7 7 100 1645 1380 84
Sweet bell peppers 11 1 9 0 0 - 722 500 69
Sweet potatoes 6 1 17 1 1 100 1557 999 64
Tomatoes 10 0 - 5 4 80 1971 1254 64
Winter squash 9 1 11 2 0 0 1205 497 41
All vegetables 97 22 23 124 56 45 13959 9093 65
All fresh foods 127 29 23 195 91 47 26571 19485 73'IPM/NDR' includes 'No Detectable Residues' samples with the market claims 'PDP No Pesticides Detected', 'PDP Pesticide Free', 'SpecialityNo Pesticides Detected' and 'SpecialityPesticide Free'. These market claims are typicallyaccompanied bya requirement that integrated pest management
systems also be used. 'Organic' includes samples with the market claims 'PDP Organic' and 'SpecialityOrganic'.

Source:
B. P. Baker, C. M. Benbrook, E. Groth III and K. Lutz Benbrook. Pesticide residues in conventional, integrated pest management (IPM)-grown and organic foods: insights from three US data sets. Food Additives and Contaminants, 2002, Vol. 19, No. 5, 427-446

"C. James Strutz" > wrote in message
...
>
> "usual suspect" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Beach Runner wrote:
>
>
>> > Mono plant culture uses vast quantities
>> > of phosphates and other chemical fertilizer.
>>
>> Commercial organic uses vast quantities of phosphates, too, just in
>> different forms. The only differences between conventional and organic
>> are that conventional allows for the use of certain quantities of
>> synthetics and residues are tested, while organics have no restrictions
>> on the natural forms of the same pesticides and fertilizers and are
>> never tested for residues. Pyrethrum, a NATURAL and ORGANIC pesticide
>> applied widely to organic crops in the US, is listed by EPA as a
> carcinogen.
>
> While you are correct is saying that pyrethrum is an approved organic
> pesticide, only a very small percentage of organic farmers actually use
> it.
> It's considered a "last resort" among organic pesticides. Your statement
> that it is "applied widely to organic crops in the US" is misleading.
> =============================
Why? Can you prove you claim?
"...In 1995, USDA statistics indicate that Kenya produced over 100,000 tons
of dry flower petals, indicating a significant increase in pyrethrum
production since 1981..."

!00,000 TONS of DRIED flower petals! Can you imagine the land used just to
grow that? And to throw anyother whrench into your organic idiocy, it's
mostly grown in 'sweatshop' type operations in poor countries. Welcome to
slavery, fool. Nice of you to support that too!

Oh, in case you're too stupid to know, that's where the Pyrethrum comes
from.



>

What kind of idiotic spew are you trying to post now, stupid? Try plain
text....




.."John Coleman" > wrote in message
...
..One of Rick Etters most bizarre unsupported claims is that organic farmers
use disproportionate amounts of pesticides compared to grochemfarmers.n
..fact .organic produce has about 1 third the number of pesticide residues or
agrochem food*, and in lower amounts.
======================
The fact that organic pesticides are applied more often, in greater amounts
is supported by the cites I have given. Johnny boy has not provided facts
for his claims, ever....
No where have I talked about residues, but if Johnny-boy wants that then
fine. His site below is fine, only problem is is that explains why organic
pesticides are applied in greater amounts and more often. Their great for
low persistance, but that's what makes them need the extra amounts and
applications. That Johnny-boy is too stupid to understand is no surprise.



..The article below explains why this is.

..http://www.mindfully.org/Food/Organi...ides8may02.htm

..John



snippage

of data that wasn't being discussed, but trotted out as a Johnny-boy
strawman. One that got shot down because it ex[plains why my claims are
true. Way to go Johnny-boy!!!

John Coleman wrote:
> One of Rick Etters most bizarre unsupported claims is that organic
> farmers use disproportionate amounts of pesticides compared to agrochem
> farmers. In fact organic produce has about 1 third the number of
> pesticide residues or agrochem food*, and in lower amounts.
>
> The article below explains why this is.
>
> http://www.mindfully.org/Food/Organi...ides8may02.htm
>
> John

He also ignored the concept I was stating, Not using mono farming, but
rather using a combination of crops. Certain crops do well together.
That is a part of organic gardening.
>
>
>
> *Frequency of pesticide residues in fresh fruits and vegetables by
> market claim Pesticide Data Program, 1994–99.
>
> KEY .
> A Number of samples
> B Number of positives
> C Per cent positive
> Organic IPM/NDR No market claim .
> A B C A B C A B C
> Fruits
> Apples 1 0 – 20 10 50 2294 2150 94
> Bananas 1 0 – 11 4 36 1134 658 58
> Cantaloupe 3 1 33 0 0 – 1242 603 49
> Grapes 4 1 25 12 4 33 1891 1481 78
> Oranges 7 1 14 13 7 54 1899 1616 85
> Peaches 2 1 50 10 5 50 1107 1035 93
> Pears 4 1 25 0 0 – 1777 1689 95
> Strawberries 8 2 25 5 5 100 1268 1160 91
> All fruit 30 7 23 71 35 49 12612 10392 82
>
> Vegetables
> Broccoli 2 1 50 18 7 39 674 171 25
> Carrots 18 4 22 21 7 33 1874 1359 73
> Celery 2 1 50 4 2 50 173 166 96
> Cucumbers 10 2 20 1 0 – 723 533 74
> Green beans 3 0 – 24 10 42 1169 689 59
> Lettuce 3 1 33 21 8 38 860 428 50
> Potatoes 4 1 25 20 10 50 1386 1117 81
> Spinach 19 9 47 7 7 100 1645 1380 84
> Sweet bell peppers 11 1 9 0 0 – 722 500 69
> Sweet potatoes 6 1 17 1 1 100 1557 999 64
> Tomatoes 10 0 – 5 4 80 1971 1254 64
> Winter squash 9 1 11 2 0 0 1205 497 41
> All vegetables 97 22 23 124 56 45 13959 9093 65
> All fresh foods 127 29 23 195 91 47 26571 19485 73
>
> ‘IPM/NDR’ includes ‘No Detectable Residues’ samples with the market
> claims ‘PDP No Pesticides Detected’, ‘PDP Pesticide Free’, ‘SpecialityNo
> Pesticides Detected’ and ‘SpecialityPesticide Free’. These market claims
> are typicallyaccompanied bya requirement that integrated pest management
> systems also be used. ‘Organic’ includes samples with the market claims
> ‘PDP Organic’ and ‘SpecialityOrganic’.
>
> Source:
> B. P. Baker, C. M. Benbrook, E. Groth III and K. Lutz Benbrook.
> Pesticide residues in conventional, integrated pest management
> (IPM)-grown and organic foods: insights from three US data sets. Food
> Additives and Contaminants, 2002, Vol. 19, No. 5, 427–446
>

"Beach Runner" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> John Coleman wrote:
>> One of Rick Etters most bizarre unsupported claims is that organic
>> farmers use disproportionate amounts of pesticides compared to agrochem
>> farmers. In fact organic produce has about 1 third the number of
>> pesticide residues or agrochem food*, and in lower amounts.
>> The article below explains why this is.
>> http://www.mindfully.org/Food/Organi...ides8may02.htm
>> John
>
> He also ignored the concept I was stating, Not using mono farming, but
> rather using a combination of crops. Certain crops do well together.
> That is a part of organic gardening.
====================
Which, like vegans are fond of pointing out about grass-fed beef, you can't
feed the world on your so-called organic gardens



>> *Frequency of pesticide residues in fresh fruits and vegetables by
>> market claim Pesticide Data Program, 1994–99. KEY .
>> A Number of samples
>> B Number of positives
>> C Per cent positive
>> Organic IPM/NDR No market claim .
>> A B C A B C A B C
>> Fruits
>> Apples 1 0 – 20 10 50 2294 2150 94
>> Bananas 1 0 – 11 4 36 1134 658 58
>> Cantaloupe 3 1 33 0 0 – 1242 603 49
>> Grapes 4 1 25 12 4 33 1891 1481 78
>> Oranges 7 1 14 13 7 54 1899 1616 85
>> Peaches 2 1 50 10 5 50 1107 1035 93
>> Pears 4 1 25 0 0 – 1777 1689 95
>> Strawberries 8 2 25 5 5 100 1268 1160 91
>> All fruit 30 7 23 71 35 49 12612 10392 82
>>
>> Vegetables
>> Broccoli 2 1 50 18 7 39 674 171 25
>> Carrots 18 4 22 21 7 33 1874 1359 73
>> Celery 2 1 50 4 2 50 173 166 96
>> Cucumbers 10 2 20 1 0 – 723 533 74
>> Green beans 3 0 – 24 10 42 1169 689 59
>> Lettuce 3 1 33 21 8 38 860 428 50
>> Potatoes 4 1 25 20 10 50 1386 1117 81
>> Spinach 19 9 47 7 7 100 1645 1380 84
>> Sweet bell peppers 11 1 9 0 0 – 722 500 69
>> Sweet potatoes 6 1 17 1 1 100 1557 999 64
>> Tomatoes 10 0 – 5 4 80 1971 1254 64
>> Winter squash 9 1 11 2 0 0 1205 497 41
>> All vegetables 97 22 23 124 56 45 13959 9093 65
>> All fresh foods 127 29 23 195 91 47 26571 19485 73
>>
>> ‘IPM/NDR’ includes ‘No Detectable Residues’ samples with the market
>> claims ‘PDP No Pesticides Detected’, ‘PDP Pesticide Free’, ‘SpecialityNo
>> Pesticides Detected’ and ‘SpecialityPesticide Free’. These market claims
>> are typicallyaccompanied bya requirement that integrated pest management
>> systems also be used. ‘Organic’ includes samples with the market claims
>> ‘PDP Organic’ and ‘SpecialityOrganic’.
>>
>> Source:
>> B. P. Baker, C. M. Benbrook, E. Groth III and K. Lutz Benbrook. Pesticide
>> residues in conventional, integrated pest management (IPM)-grown and
>> organic foods: insights from three US data sets. Food Additives and
>> Contaminants, 2002, Vol. 19, No. 5, 427–446
>>