tofu and dementia
 

I remember a study (2000?) done at the University of Hawaii by Dr. White
regarding an association between the consumption of tofu in mid life and
dementia in old age. Later I heard a rumor that this was caused by the
metal containers the tofu was fermented in, but I have never been able
to follow it up. Is there any site or source that addresses this? Do
you know of any brand of tofu that is not fermented in metal pans?

May Fly wrote:
> I remember a study (2000?) done at the University of Hawaii by Dr. White
> regarding an association between the consumption of tofu in mid life and
> dementia in old age. Later I heard a rumor that this was caused by the
> metal containers the tofu was fermented in, but I have never been able
> to follow it up. Is there any site or source that addresses this? Do
> you know of any brand of tofu that is not fermented in metal pans?
>
It was just foolish science. The reality is we've had test subjects
with no ill effects using soy products for thousands of years. They're
called Asians.

"Beach Runner" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> May Fly wrote:
>> I remember a study (2000?) done at the University of Hawaii by Dr. White
>> regarding an association between the consumption of tofu in mid life and
>> dementia in old age. Later I heard a rumor that this was caused by the
>> metal containers the tofu was fermented in, but I have never been able
>> to follow it up. Is there any site or source that addresses this? Do
>> you know of any brand of tofu that is not fermented in metal pans?
>>
> It was just foolish science. The reality is we've had test subjects with
> no ill effects using soy products for thousands of years. They're called
> Asians.
===============
LOL Keep showing your ignorance, killer. They didn't eat the same
amounts, or process it the same way. It wasn't the "main" course as in
turkey substitutes and such.

"...Industrial methods for the production of soymilk leave out the
all-important squeezing and skimming steps. The presoaking is shortened by
using an alkaline solution. This process helps deactivate some of the enzyme
inhibitors, but not the other antinutrients. The high pH value of the
soaking solution results in a decrease in cystine content when the beverage
is heated, thus lowering total protein availability and soymilk's usefulness
as a protein source.5 Various refined sweeteners, preservatives and
stabilizers may then be added. ..."

"Beach Runner" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> May Fly wrote:
>> I remember a study (2000?) done at the University of Hawaii by Dr. White
>> regarding an association between the consumption of tofu in mid life and
>> dementia in old age. Later I heard a rumor that this was caused by the
>> metal containers the tofu was fermented in, but I have never been able
>> to follow it up. Is there any site or source that addresses this? Do
>> you know of any brand of tofu that is not fermented in metal pans?
>>
> It was just foolish science. The reality is we've had test subjects with
> no ill effects using soy products for thousands of years. They're called
> Asians.
===============
LOL Keep showing your ignorance, killer. They didn't eat the same
amounts, or process it the same way. It wasn't the "main" course as in
turkey substitutes and such.

"...Industrial methods for the production of soymilk leave out the
all-important squeezing and skimming steps. The presoaking is shortened by
using an alkaline solution. This process helps deactivate some of the enzyme
inhibitors, but not the other antinutrients. The high pH value of the
soaking solution results in a decrease in cystine content when the beverage
is heated, thus lowering total protein availability and soymilk's usefulness
as a protein source.5 Various refined sweeteners, preservatives and
stabilizers may then be added. ..."

May Fly wrote:
> I remember a study (2000?) done at the University of Hawaii by Dr. White
> regarding an association between the consumption of tofu in mid life and
> dementia in old age. Later I heard a rumor that this was caused by the
> metal containers the tofu was fermented in, but I have never been able
> to follow it up. Is there any site or source that addresses this? Do
> you know of any brand of tofu that is not fermented in metal pans?
>

I was at talk this summer with vegan nutrtionist Brenda Davis RD (
former head of some Canadian Nutritional Council and author of about 1/2
dozen books ).

She described about a half dozen ways that study was flawed. It was so
seriously flawed that we lay people in the audience didn't need to have
the flaws explained to us.

I wish I could remember more.....dam, it must have been that tofu I had
last week! :)

The thing to remember when you hear anything about soy is that the soy
industry is huge and is threatening to take profits away from the animal
food industry which is also huge.

You have two industrial giants pumping money into studies/propaganda.



Steve

"Steve" > wrote in message
...
> May Fly wrote:
>> I remember a study (2000?) done at the University of Hawaii by Dr. White
>> regarding an association between the consumption of tofu in mid life and
>> dementia in old age. Later I heard a rumor that this was caused by the
>> metal containers the tofu was fermented in, but I have never been able
>> to follow it up. Is there any site or source that addresses this? Do
>> you know of any brand of tofu that is not fermented in metal pans?
>>
>
> I was at talk this summer with vegan nutrtionist Brenda Davis RD ( former
> head of some Canadian Nutritional Council and author of about 1/2 dozen
> books ).
>
> She described about a half dozen ways that study was flawed. It was so
> seriously flawed that we lay people in the audience didn't need to have
> the flaws explained to us.
>
> I wish I could remember more.....dam, it must have been that tofu I had
> last week! :)
>
> The thing to remember when you hear anything about soy is that the soy
> industry is huge and is threatening to take profits away from the animal
> food industry which is also huge.
====================
LOL Remember that when the idiots post how great soy is, and point to
wonderful sites that say so. All of course promoted by the soy industry.

The fact remains that the soy we eat is not made the same as it was
traditionally. Plus, it wasn't used as the "main" course as in turkey
substitutes.


>
> You have two industrial giants pumping money into studies/propaganda.
>
>
>
> Steve

"Steve" > wrote in message
...
> May Fly wrote:
>> I remember a study (2000?) done at the University of Hawaii by Dr. White
>> regarding an association between the consumption of tofu in mid life and
>> dementia in old age. Later I heard a rumor that this was caused by the
>> metal containers the tofu was fermented in, but I have never been able
>> to follow it up. Is there any site or source that addresses this? Do
>> you know of any brand of tofu that is not fermented in metal pans?
>>
>
> I was at talk this summer with vegan nutrtionist Brenda Davis RD ( former
> head of some Canadian Nutritional Council and author of about 1/2 dozen
> books ).
>
> She described about a half dozen ways that study was flawed. It was so
> seriously flawed that we lay people in the audience didn't need to have
> the flaws explained to us.
>
> I wish I could remember more.....dam, it must have been that tofu I had
> last week! :)
>
> The thing to remember when you hear anything about soy is that the soy
> industry is huge and is threatening to take profits away from the animal
> food industry which is also huge.
====================
LOL Remember that when the idiots post how great soy is, and point to
wonderful sites that say so. All of course promoted by the soy industry.

The fact remains that the soy we eat is not made the same as it was
traditionally. Plus, it wasn't used as the "main" course as in turkey
substitutes.


>
> You have two industrial giants pumping money into studies/propaganda.
>
>
>
> Steve

"May Fly" > wrote in message
...
>I remember a study (2000?) done at the University of Hawaii by Dr. White
> regarding an association between the consumption of tofu in mid life and
> dementia in old age.
Links on the hazards of eating soy: http://ecologos.org/ttdd.html

Laurie

Asians typically eat only 6 grams per day of soy products, nothing like the
larger quantities eaten by Westerners.

John

"Beach Runner" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> May Fly wrote:
> > I remember a study (2000?) done at the University of Hawaii by Dr. White
> > regarding an association between the consumption of tofu in mid life and
> > dementia in old age. Later I heard a rumor that this was caused by the
> > metal containers the tofu was fermented in, but I have never been able
> > to follow it up. Is there any site or source that addresses this? Do
> > you know of any brand of tofu that is not fermented in metal pans?
> >
> It was just foolish science. The reality is we've had test subjects
> with no ill effects using soy products for thousands of years. They're
> called Asians.

link for Trouble With Tofu: Soy and the Brain has been removed at Mercola

"Laurie" > wrote in message
...
>
> "May Fly" > wrote in message
> ...
> >I remember a study (2000?) done at the University of Hawaii by Dr. White
> > regarding an association between the consumption of tofu in mid life and
> > dementia in old age.
> Links on the hazards of eating soy: http://ecologos.org/ttdd.html
>
> Laurie
>
>

link for Trouble With Tofu: Soy and the Brain has been removed at Mercola

"Laurie" > wrote in message
...
>
> "May Fly" > wrote in message
> ...
> >I remember a study (2000?) done at the University of Hawaii by Dr. White
> > regarding an association between the consumption of tofu in mid life and
> > dementia in old age.
> Links on the hazards of eating soy: http://ecologos.org/ttdd.html
>
> Laurie
>
>

John Coleman wrote:

> link for Trouble With Tofu: Soy and the Brain has been removed at Mercola
>
> "Laurie" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>"May Fly" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>I remember a study (2000?) done at the University of Hawaii by Dr. White
>>>regarding an association between the consumption of tofu in mid life and
>>>dementia in old age.


It conjecture, never shown with people.

>>
>> Links on the hazards of eating soy: http://ecologos.org/ttdd.html
>>
>> Laurie
>>
>>
>
>
>

"rick etter" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "John Coleman" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Asians typically eat only 6 grams per day of soy products, nothing like
> > the
> > larger quantities eaten by Westerners.
> > ==================
> Plus they didn't try to make it look like, or taste like, turkey...

Indeed - Asians eat little quantity of animal products, they often flavour
them with spices, or let them take on the flavour from the rest of the
ingedients. In short, they don't really do "the meat thing" like Westerners.
Of course, even Western turkey eaters like to flavour their meat with plant
products like herbs and spices.

John

thanks for the link

I know that there are always commercial interest groups who try to skew
research results to match their own agendas; but I don't feel that's
sufficient reason to reject data out of hand. On the contrary, I think
any study that attracts such attention should be reviewed even more
closely. And those who reject it without examination (pro and con)
stand to suffer if the study is correct (in this case).

Meanwhile, I'm still sifting through what I've read, trying to determine
if this is sufficient motive to make me want to limit soy intake in my
diet to two servings a week.

"John Coleman" > wrote in message
...
>
> "rick etter" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>>
>> "John Coleman" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Asians typically eat only 6 grams per day of soy products, nothing like
>> > the
>> > larger quantities eaten by Westerners.
>> > ==================
>> Plus they didn't try to make it look like, or taste like, turkey...
>
> Indeed - Asians eat little quantity of animal products, they often flavour
> them with spices, or let them take on the flavour from the rest of the
> ingedients. In short, they don't really do "the meat thing" like
> Westerners.
==================
No, they don't, but they are not vegan or vegitarian by any stretch, which
is what vegans here try to imply.

> Of course, even Western turkey eaters like to flavour their meat with
> plant
> products like herbs and spices.
>
> John
>
>

John Coleman wrote:
<...>
>>>Asians typically eat only 6 grams per day of soy products, nothing like
>>>the
>>>larger quantities eaten by Westerners.
>>>==================
>>
>>Plus they didn't try to make it look like, or taste like, turkey...
>
> Indeed - Asians eat little quantity of animal products,

Perhaps it's more accurate to say something that they eat relatively smaller
quantities. They sure as hell don't shy away from meat the way urban vegans do,
so it's time you stop making them some kind of poster child for veganism.

> they often flavour
> them with spices, or let them take on the flavour from the rest of the
> ingedients. In short, they don't really do "the meat thing" like Westerners.

I'll try to remember that next time some nitwit at AAEV or TPA posts links to
anti-Korean websites showing a line of skinned dogs and cats hanging in market
stalls.

> Of course, even Western turkey eaters like to flavour their meat with plant
> products like herbs and spices.

What's your point?

rick etter wrote:
>>Asians typically eat only 6 grams per day of soy products, nothing like
>>the
>>larger quantities eaten by Westerners.
>>==================
>
> Plus they didn't try to make it look like, or taste like, turkey...

Correct, and they primarily use it fermented (miso, tamari, natto, tempeh, etc.)
and in only modest portions unfermented (tofu, edamame).

John Coleman wrote:
<...>
> Of course, even Western turkey eaters like to flavour their meat with plant
> products like herbs and spices.

I know I replied to this already, but I thought of something that makes your
point even more ridiculous.

Various cultures like to flavor vegetables and legumes with meat. For instance,
it's common to find bacon (whole or drippings) or ham (prosciutto, etc) used to
flavor all kinds of vegetables and other side dishes in Italian and French cuisine.

The same is also true in British cuisine (an oxymoron) with dishes like bubble
and squeak, using at the very least drippings -- and some cooks are a bit more
generous and just leave the streaky bacon *in* the dish.

In American cuisine, it's quite common to flavor beans with ham hocks, bacon,
smoked sausage, or other smoked meats or bones. It's also common to season
greens (turnip, mustard, collard, kale, etc) with ham, bacon, or smoked neckbones.

What does it mean for your implied thesis that meat is used in so many cultures
and regions to season vegetables just as "plant products" are used to season meats?

"rick etter" > wrote in message
ink.net...
8<
> > Indeed - Asians eat little quantity of animal products, they often
flavour
> > them with spices, or let them take on the flavour from the rest of the
> > ingedients. In short, they don't really do "the meat thing" like
> > Westerners.
> ==================
> No, they don't, but they are not vegan or vegitarian by any stretch, which
> is what vegans here try to imply.

I see no one trying to imply this, however it is true on average that they
eat little in the way of animal products.

Interestingly Okinawans (an exception) have a very high intake of soy and
have great longevity and resistence from degenerative diseases.
http://www.foodrevolution.org/mothering.htm

I don't think they have been noted for excessive dementia either.

John

John Coleman wrote:
> "rick etter" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> >
> > "John Coleman" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Asians typically eat only 6 grams per day of soy products,
nothing like
> > > the
> > > larger quantities eaten by Westerners.
> > > ==================
> > Plus they didn't try to make it look like, or taste like, turkey...
>
> Indeed - Asians eat little quantity of animal products,

Says you, with your pimply fat ass parked in the UK somewhere.

In fact, as they're growing richer, Asians are increasing the amount of
meat in their diets.

> they often flavour
> them with spices, or let them take on the flavour from the rest of
the
> ingedients. In short, they don't really do "the meat thing" like
Westerners.
> Of course, even Western turkey eaters like to flavour their meat with
plant
> products like herbs and spices.
>
> John

John Coleman wrote:
> "rick etter" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> >
> > "John Coleman" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Asians typically eat only 6 grams per day of soy products,
nothing like
> > > the
> > > larger quantities eaten by Westerners.
> > > ==================
> > Plus they didn't try to make it look like, or taste like, turkey...
>
> Indeed - Asians eat little quantity of animal products,

Says you, with your pimply fat ass parked in the UK somewhere.

In fact, as they're growing richer, Asians are increasing the amount of
meat in their diets.

> they often flavour
> them with spices, or let them take on the flavour from the rest of
the
> ingedients. In short, they don't really do "the meat thing" like
Westerners.
> Of course, even Western turkey eaters like to flavour their meat with
plant
> products like herbs and spices.
>
> John

"rick etter" > wrote in message
nk.net...
8<

The Okinawans eat loads of tofu
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...at-okinawa.htm, the thread
asserts this causes dementia, yet Okinawans are healthy into old age despite
their high tofu intake. This discredits the assertion.

The Innuit eat the most fish, and are not noted for longevity. Studies of
fish eaters only compare them to SAD eaters, so are bound to find that fish
eating is preferable.

John

"rick etter" > wrote in message
nk.net...
8<

The Okinawans eat loads of tofu
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...at-okinawa.htm, the thread
asserts this causes dementia, yet Okinawans are healthy into old age despite
their high tofu intake. This discredits the assertion.

The Innuit eat the most fish, and are not noted for longevity. Studies of
fish eaters only compare them to SAD eaters, so are bound to find that fish
eating is preferable.

John

> wrote in message
oups.com...
8<
> Says you, with your pimply fat ass parked in the UK somewhere.

You've never seen my butt, if you had you would know it is slim and spot
free, but of course these kind of offensive personal remarks are only made
by fools to distract from the facts, i.e. "The Asian diet is relatively low
in meat and dairy foods." http://www.gicare.com/pated/edtot36.htm

> In fact, as they're growing richer, Asians are increasing the amount of
> meat in their diets.

....and dying sooner.

"In contrast, middle-aged Okinawans (age 50) who have a less traditional
lifestyle have a BMI of 26, the highest in Japan and similar to Americans. A
BMI greater than 25 is considered overweight and places you at greater risk
for chronic diseases, especially cardiovascular disease (heart disease and
stroke). "
http://okinawaprogram.com/study.html

John

"John Coleman" > wrote in message
...
>
> "rick etter" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> 8<
>
> The Okinawans eat loads of tofu
======================
No, it doesn't say quite that at all, idiot. And, besides, why did you
dishonestly snip what I posted about the differences between the tofu they
do eat, and what is produced in the US? Afraid to admit that it's not the
healthy utopian food you like to portray?

Here, I restore it for you, in case you somehow missed it, what with you
lack of comprehension and all...

"...In the U.S., the soybean industry is filling our shelves with soy
derivatives such as soy flour, textured soy protein, partially hydrogenated
soybean oil, and soy protein isolate - none of which were part of the
traditional Japanese diet. They are found in soy cheese, milk, margarine,
vegetable oils, burgers and hot dogs, baby formula, and flour, to name just
a few. These soy derivatives have become a major (often-unrecognized)
ingredient in fast foods and prepackaged frozen meals. They should not be
confused with the natural and fermented soy components of the traditional
Japanese diet...."
http://www.johnleemd.net/articles/soy-01.html




> http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...at-okinawa.htm, the
> thread
> asserts this causes dementia, yet Okinawans are healthy into old age
> despite
> their high tofu intake. This discredits the assertion.
==================
No, it does not fool. Because the assertion was that the tofu they do eat
isn't what you have available here. Try again, this time try reading
without the dogma....
And, if you'll read the first anecdote, the woman quoted was a lush? She
couldn't sleep without drinking! And they attributed that to her good
health too!
And, if you actually read the article, it doesn't cite tofu as their
saviour, just a moderate, healthy overall diet. Oh, and with lots of
fish... Again, fool, you can hardly point to them as a vegan ideal.

>
> The Innuit eat the most fish, and are not noted for longevity. Studies of
> fish eaters only compare them to SAD eaters, so are bound to find that
> fish
> eating is preferable.
>
> John
>
>

"John Coleman" > wrote in message
...
>
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> 8<
>> Says you, with your pimply fat ass parked in the UK somewhere.
>
> You've never seen my butt, if you had you would know it is slim and spot
> free, but of course these kind of offensive personal remarks are only made
> by fools to distract from the facts, i.e. "The Asian diet is relatively
> low
> in meat and dairy foods." http://www.gicare.com/pated/edtot36.htm
==================
I reat my case. hardly a vegan utopia, eh killer?


snippage...

"John Coleman" > wrote in message
...
> link for Trouble With Tofu: Soy and the Brain has been
> removed at Mercola
Not removed, but moved to
http://www.mercola.com/2000/sep/17/soy_brain.htm

Thanks for the link check...

Laurie

"usual suspect" > wrote in message
...
> John Coleman wrote:
> <...>
>> Of course, even Western turkey eaters like to flavour their meat with
>> plant
>> products like herbs and spices.
>
> I know I replied to this already, but I thought of something that makes
> your point even more ridiculous.
>
> Various cultures like to flavor vegetables and legumes with meat.

Don't forget chicken broth used to flavor mashed potatoes. :)

Of course, I think they are trying to convince themselves that meat is
flavorless so they're less tempted to eat it. If meat was so flavorless, and
vegetable so good, then young children would be saying "yuck" and NO to
hamburgers and chicken nuggets instead of spinach.

-Rubystars

But hamburgers and chicken nuggets are not plain meat, they are flavoured
with plant products, and then usually have salt added.

Kids do turn their noses up at pork chops and beef slices, even adults
regularly flavour them with plant products.

The blood and other body fluids in meat has little that appeals to most
people in the flavour department. If it did, game would be more popular,
instead most people get the most tasteless meat they can and flavour it with
spices.

John

"Rubystars" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> "usual suspect" > wrote in message
> ...
> > John Coleman wrote:
> > <...>
> >> Of course, even Western turkey eaters like to flavour their meat with
> >> plant
> >> products like herbs and spices.
> >
> > I know I replied to this already, but I thought of something that makes
> > your point even more ridiculous.
> >
> > Various cultures like to flavor vegetables and legumes with meat.
>
> Don't forget chicken broth used to flavor mashed potatoes. :)
>
> Of course, I think they are trying to convince themselves that meat is
> flavorless so they're less tempted to eat it. If meat was so flavorless,
and
> vegetable so good, then young children would be saying "yuck" and NO to
> hamburgers and chicken nuggets instead of spinach.
>
> -Rubystars
>
>

"John Coleman" > wrote in message
...
> But hamburgers and chicken nuggets are not plain meat, they are flavoured
> with plant products, and then usually have salt added.
=======================
And most people flavor everything else they eat too! Including other plant
dishes, fool.

>
> Kids do turn their noses up at pork chops and beef slices, even adults
> regularly flavour them with plant products.
========================
They turn their noses up at asparagus and brocolli too. Most people
disguise their tastes with spices or even cheese, idiot. What's your point?


>
> The blood and other body fluids in meat has little that appeals to most
> people in the flavour department. If it did, game would be more popular,
> instead most people get the most tasteless meat they can and flavour it
> with
> spices.
=================
And you're still tainted with ignorance, killer.

>
> John
>
> "Rubystars" > wrote in message
> .. .
>>
>> "usual suspect" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > John Coleman wrote:
>> > <...>
>> >> Of course, even Western turkey eaters like to flavour their meat with
>> >> plant
>> >> products like herbs and spices.
>> >
>> > I know I replied to this already, but I thought of something that makes
>> > your point even more ridiculous.
>> >
>> > Various cultures like to flavor vegetables and legumes with meat.
>>
>> Don't forget chicken broth used to flavor mashed potatoes. :)
>>
>> Of course, I think they are trying to convince themselves that meat is
>> flavorless so they're less tempted to eat it. If meat was so flavorless,
> and
>> vegetable so good, then young children would be saying "yuck" and NO to
>> hamburgers and chicken nuggets instead of spinach.
>>
>> -Rubystars
>>
>>
>
>

"John Coleman" > wrote in message
...
> But hamburgers and chicken nuggets are not plain meat, they are flavoured
> with plant products, and then usually have salt added.
=======================
And most people flavor everything else they eat too! Including other plant
dishes, fool.

>
> Kids do turn their noses up at pork chops and beef slices, even adults
> regularly flavour them with plant products.
========================
They turn their noses up at asparagus and brocolli too. Most people
disguise their tastes with spices or even cheese, idiot. What's your point?


>
> The blood and other body fluids in meat has little that appeals to most
> people in the flavour department. If it did, game would be more popular,
> instead most people get the most tasteless meat they can and flavour it
> with
> spices.
=================
And you're still tainted with ignorance, killer.

>
> John
>
> "Rubystars" > wrote in message
> .. .
>>
>> "usual suspect" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > John Coleman wrote:
>> > <...>
>> >> Of course, even Western turkey eaters like to flavour their meat with
>> >> plant
>> >> products like herbs and spices.
>> >
>> > I know I replied to this already, but I thought of something that makes
>> > your point even more ridiculous.
>> >
>> > Various cultures like to flavor vegetables and legumes with meat.
>>
>> Don't forget chicken broth used to flavor mashed potatoes. :)
>>
>> Of course, I think they are trying to convince themselves that meat is
>> flavorless so they're less tempted to eat it. If meat was so flavorless,
> and
>> vegetable so good, then young children would be saying "yuck" and NO to
>> hamburgers and chicken nuggets instead of spinach.
>>
>> -Rubystars
>>
>>
>
>

Rubystars wrote:
>>>Of course, even Western turkey eaters like to flavour their meat with
>>>plant
>>>products like herbs and spices.
>>
>>I know I replied to this already, but I thought of something that makes
>>your point even more ridiculous.
>>
>>Various cultures like to flavor vegetables and legumes with meat.
>
> Don't forget chicken broth used to flavor mashed potatoes. :)
>
> Of course, I think they are trying to convince themselves that meat is
> flavorless so they're less tempted to eat it. If meat was so flavorless, and
> vegetable so good, then young children would be saying "yuck" and NO to
> hamburgers and chicken nuggets instead of spinach.

True, but I wanted the lame-brain Coleman to address the fact that his
little theory about flavoring meat with 'plants' works in reverse, too
(he's killfiled me, though). Seasoning food with a variety of
ingredients -- herbs, spices, oils, vinegar, booze, meat, etc. -- is
pretty universal. Some people put bacon on their cheeseburgers for the
extra flavor -- meat on meat flavoring. So much for the fairy's theory.

Rubystars wrote:
>>>Of course, even Western turkey eaters like to flavour their meat with
>>>plant
>>>products like herbs and spices.
>>
>>I know I replied to this already, but I thought of something that makes
>>your point even more ridiculous.
>>
>>Various cultures like to flavor vegetables and legumes with meat.
>
> Don't forget chicken broth used to flavor mashed potatoes. :)
>
> Of course, I think they are trying to convince themselves that meat is
> flavorless so they're less tempted to eat it. If meat was so flavorless, and
> vegetable so good, then young children would be saying "yuck" and NO to
> hamburgers and chicken nuggets instead of spinach.

True, but I wanted the lame-brain Coleman to address the fact that his
little theory about flavoring meat with 'plants' works in reverse, too
(he's killfiled me, though). Seasoning food with a variety of
ingredients -- herbs, spices, oils, vinegar, booze, meat, etc. -- is
pretty universal. Some people put bacon on their cheeseburgers for the
extra flavor -- meat on meat flavoring. So much for the fairy's theory.

John Coleman wrote:
> But hamburgers and chicken nuggets are not plain meat, they are flavoured
> with plant products,

Double bacon cheeseburger, hold the lettuce and tomatoes. How about that
one, dummy?

> and then usually have salt added.

Most people salt their veggies, too, idiot.

> Kids do turn their noses up at pork chops and beef slices,

Which kids? The kids in my family turn down sprouts and broccoli.

> even adults regularly flavour them with plant products.

Adults regularly season beans and vegetable dishes with bacon, smoked
sausage, smoked ham, smoked hocks, smoked neckbones, etc.

> The blood and other body fluids in meat has little that appeals to most
> people in the flavour department. If it did, game would be more popular,
> instead most people get the most tasteless meat they can and flavour it with
> spices.

Ipse dixit. Most people flavor their veggies, often with meat, and that
cuts across cultures.

John Coleman wrote:
> But hamburgers and chicken nuggets are not plain meat, they are flavoured
> with plant products,

Double bacon cheeseburger, hold the lettuce and tomatoes. How about that
one, dummy?

> and then usually have salt added.

Most people salt their veggies, too, idiot.

> Kids do turn their noses up at pork chops and beef slices,

Which kids? The kids in my family turn down sprouts and broccoli.

> even adults regularly flavour them with plant products.

Adults regularly season beans and vegetable dishes with bacon, smoked
sausage, smoked ham, smoked hocks, smoked neckbones, etc.

> The blood and other body fluids in meat has little that appeals to most
> people in the flavour department. If it did, game would be more popular,
> instead most people get the most tasteless meat they can and flavour it with
> spices.

Ipse dixit. Most people flavor their veggies, often with meat, and that
cuts across cultures.

"Rubystars" > wrote in message
.. .
>

> Of course, I think they are trying to convince themselves that meat is
> flavorless so they're less tempted to eat it.
Raw meat, the way ALL NATURAL flesh-eaters consume it is quite
tasteless.
Humans cook it at high temperatures and that produces Maillard reaction
chemicals, some quite toxic, others quite carcinogenic.
http://www.exploratorium.edu/cooking...es-flavor.html

"creating carcinogenic heterocyclic amines, which are formed during high
temperature cooking of foods like meat and chicken that contain high amounts
of protein"
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/fw04/browning.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

> If meat was so flavorless, and vegetable so good, then young children
> would be saying "yuck" and NO ...
Young children are conditioned to eat the same items as their ignorant
parents; that is why you eat meat!! Conditioning, pure and simple. You did
not intelligently choose to do so. Neither did they.

Laurie