Vegan (alt.food.vegan) This newsgroup exists to share ideas and issues of concern among vegans. We are always happy to share our recipes- perhaps especially with omnivores who are simply curious- or even better, accomodating a vegan guest for a meal!

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  #121 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-10-2012, 04:06 PM posted to alt.creative+cooking,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,rec.sport.football.college,alt.food.vegan,rec.food.cooking
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On Oct 10, 1:06*pm, [email protected] wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 07:18:10 -0700 (PDT), Rupert
wrote:


and I also think that I enjoy my food now about as much
as I used to before I became vegan. And I also believe that by being
vegan I'm reducing my expected contribution to animal suffering.


* * It depends how a person does it. I feel certain there are vegans who buy
rice milk when even regular cow milk almost certainly involves fewer deaths, and
grass raised dairy undoubtedly does.


Arsenic soup. Vegans who drink rice milk contribute to their own
animal suffering.

http://www.foodsmatter.com/foodsmatt...nic-panic-134/

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Old 11-10-2012, 06:16 PM posted to alt.creative+cooking,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan,rec.food.cooking
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On okt. 11, 16:46, George Plimpton wrote:
On 10/11/2012 1:16 AM, Rupert wrote:









On Oct 11, 10:12 am, George Plimpton wrote:
On 10/11/2012 12:40 AM, Rupert wrote:


On Oct 10, 6:08 pm, George Plimpton wrote:
On 10/10/2012 7:31 AM, Rupert wrote:


On Oct 10, 4:27 pm, George Plimpton wrote:
On 10/10/2012 7:22 AM, Rupert wrote:


On Oct 10, 4:21 pm, George Plimpton wrote:
On 10/10/2012 1:24 AM, Rupert wrote:


On Oct 9, 5:43 pm, George Plimpton wrote:
On 10/9/2012 8:12 AM, Rupert wrote:


On Oct 9, 5:03 pm, George Plimpton wrote:
On 10/9/2012 3:34 AM, Rupert wrote:


On Oct 8, 7:07 pm, George Plimpton wrote:
On 10/8/2012 9:37 AM, spamtrap1888 wrote:


On Oct 8, 9:01 am, Rupert wrote:
On Oct 8, 5:45 pm, spamtrap1888 wrote:


On Oct 8, 4:50 am, Rupert wrote:


On Sep 21, 8:00 am, George Plimpton wrote:


On 9/20/2012 3:04 PM, Just.Some.guy wrote:


Check this out Its great
http://youtu.be/1LIyVBWaE_A


It's shit. *It's unpalatable shit.


How would you be in a position to know?


Why are "vegans" continually trying to make stuff look like and taste
like meat? **Extremely* suspicious.


Why?


Why do you think they call vegan meat Satan?


I didn't realize they did call it that.


They changed the spelling to throw people off the track.:


http://www.vrg.org/recipes/vjseitan.htm


Ha ha ha ha ha - good one!


You thought it was a good joke?


It was a great joke, especially because you fell for it.


I don't really understand why you think I fell for it.


Because I saw you fall for it. *You fell right over.


I don't understand what you mean. What happened was that I said I
didn't realize that they called vegan meat Satan, which is of course
true. At that stage I didn't realize that he wanted to make a pun on
the names of one of the mock meats, but then he explained himself.


chortle


You don't seem to be willing to explain yourself.


What's to explain? *You're a dope, that's all.


So you obviously believe, but I fail to understand what reasons you
think you have in favour of this view.


Ha ha ha! *You just gave yet another reason!


So, Ball, you seem to be trying to sell me this idea that even though
I have a few accomplishments in the field of mathematics, in all other
areas I'm just not that bright. Would that be correct?


It's more that you choose to be a dope, much as ****wit David Harrison
chooses to be stupid.


I see.


Probably not, but it was worth a try.


So, do you have any thoughts about what motivates my choice to be a
dope?
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Old 11-10-2012, 06:17 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,rec.sport.football.college,alt.food.vegan,rec.food.cooking,alt.gothic
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On okt. 11, 16:06, "The Undead Edward M. Kennedy" wrote:
"Rupert" wrote

You are aware of the existence of quite a few vegans who are world-
class athletes, right? Or not?

Well, now all you have to do is list all the "word class athletes" and
the miniscule percentagae who are vegans. *Then you get to list the
comprehensive figures of who is vegan, who is not, and why vegans
are a proper perecentage of "world class athletes".

It's your assertion. *Good luck with that.

--Tedward


My assertion was perfectly correct. I don't need to do any kind of
analysis of how vegans are represented among world-class atheletes in
order to justify that assertion.
  #124 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-10-2012, 06:35 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,rec.sport.football.college,alt.food.vegan,rec.food.cooking,alt.gothic
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"Rupert" wrote

You are aware of the existence of quite a few vegans who are world-
class athletes, right? Or not?

Well, now all you have to do is list all the "word class athletes" and
the miniscule percentagae who are vegans. Then you get to list the
comprehensive figures of who is vegan, who is not, and why vegans
are a proper perecentage of "world class athletes".

It's your assertion. Good luck with that.


My assertion was perfectly correct. I don't need to do any kind of
analysis of how vegans are represented among world-class atheletes in
order to justify that assertion.

You are aware of the existence of quite a few unicorns, right?
Or not?

--Tedward


  #125 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-10-2012, 07:03 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,rec.sport.football.college,alt.food.vegan,rec.food.cooking,alt.gothic
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On 10/11/2012 1:27 AM, Rupert wrote:
On Oct 10, 5:53 pm, "Mr. N.A.Cho" wrote:



You are aware of the existence of quite a few vegans who are world-
class athletes, right?


No, and neither are you. The percentage of "vegans" among world class
athletes is even smaller than the already minuscule percentage they
comprise in the general population.

Here's a list by someone purporting to show vegetarian and 'vegan'
"world class" athletes. Note that the majority of them a) are
vegetarian, not 'vegan', and b) are long retired from sports. Note also
that most of the ones who are retired were not vegetarian at all during
their active sports careers.

This is an example of your actively working to be a dope.



  #126 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-10-2012, 07:56 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,rec.sport.football.college,alt.food.vegan,rec.food.cooking,alt.gothic
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On Oct 11, 4:27*am, Rupert wrote:
On Oct 10, 5:53*pm, "Mr. N.A.Cho" wrote:





On Oct 10, 11:47*am, "The Undead Edward M. Kennedy"
wrote:


"Rupert" wrote


Check this out Its great
http://youtu.be/1LIyVBWaE_A


It's shit. It's unpalatable shit.


Why are "vegans" continually trying to make stuff look like and taste like meat? *Extremely* suspicious.


It's mostly for people who like meat but are trying to eat "healthy".


No one likes "vegan" food - no one.


Some actually do, the problem is none of them are healthy..


This isn't true. Just about everyone enjoys some food which is
suitable for vegans. And a significant majority of those people are
healthy. Furthermore a significant majority of those who consume an
exclusively vegan diet are quite healthy. The American Dietetic
Association has endorsed the position that appropriately-planned vegan
diets are nutritionally adequate at all stages of life, and carry many
significant health benefits.


-----


I was talking about vegans. While technically you and the ADD are
correct, it's like claiming unicorn farts are part of your diet. Show
me the vegan who can appropriate plan a diet at all stages of life,
and I'll show you a unicorn because people need meat and dairy.


--Tedward


You're an idiot.- Hide quoted text -



I'd like to see the type of person that's a cradle to grave vegan.


The kid would break his hip taking the first step...


--Tedward


Two friends of mine have been bringing up their children as vegan
since birth (with the possible exception of breast milk, I am not
sure). The children are perfectly well. One of them is about seven
years old, I think.


-----


"exception of breast milk" indeed. A is A. Not A is not A.


You got two imaginary friends and Mr. Cho provided an actual picture.


--Tedward


They are not imaginary friends. The fact that I don't have photos of
them to hand is irrelevant; photos would prove nothing. An image of an
anorexic person has no bearing on the issue.


Your opinions are ignorant prejudices; you don't have any idea of what
you're talking about. If you did you would provide some real evidence.


-----


Now you're resorting to Ad Hominid attacks, a sure sign you've lost
the argument.


It's not an ad hominem argument. I am not basing my counter-argument
on the assertion that your opinions are ignorant prejudices, I have
given you plenty of good evidence to support my claims. The assertion
that your opinions are ignorant prejudices is just a factual
observation which I choose to put in there as well. It is quite
obviously true because you have shown yourself to be incapable of
producing any evidence to support your ill-founded beliefs.


If you insist on remaining ignorant then it's no skin off my nose; I
really couldn't care less.


-----


Evidence? *We've provided a ton. *You admit backhandedly that
children need milk. *We have canines. *We've all seen sickly looking
vegans (who BTW overlap with goths heavily).


maybe I'm shallow, hell I'll admit that I probably am - but you don't
see many (ANY?) decent looking vegans. *They all look pasty and
malnourished. * ****, comparing them to goths is being kind, I'd
compare them to zombies.


How would you know? Do you have some special faculty whereby whenever
you see someone walking down the street you can instantly tell whether
or not they are vegan?


you can make educated guesses - gaunt, pasty-complexion, no muscle
tone, stringy hair, veggie body odor, listless eyes, etc

  #127 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-10-2012, 08:06 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,rec.sport.football.college,alt.food.vegan,rec.food.cooking,alt.gothic
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On 10/11/2012 11:56 AM, Mr. N.A.Cho wrote:
On Oct 11, 4:27 am, Rupert wrote:
On Oct 10, 5:53 pm, "Mr. N.A.Cho" wrote:





On Oct 10, 11:47 am, "The Undead Edward M. Kennedy"
wrote:


"Rupert" wrote


Check this out Its great
http://youtu.be/1LIyVBWaE_A


It's shit. It's unpalatable shit.


Why are "vegans" continually trying to make stuff look like and taste like meat? *Extremely* suspicious.


It's mostly for people who like meat but are trying to eat "healthy".


No one likes "vegan" food - no one.


Some actually do, the problem is none of them are healthy.


This isn't true. Just about everyone enjoys some food which is
suitable for vegans. And a significant majority of those people are
healthy. Furthermore a significant majority of those who consume an
exclusively vegan diet are quite healthy. The American Dietetic
Association has endorsed the position that appropriately-planned vegan
diets are nutritionally adequate at all stages of life, and carry many
significant health benefits.


-----


I was talking about vegans. While technically you and the ADD are
correct, it's like claiming unicorn farts are part of your diet. Show
me the vegan who can appropriate plan a diet at all stages of life,
and I'll show you a unicorn because people need meat and dairy.


--Tedward


You're an idiot.- Hide quoted text -



I'd like to see the type of person that's a cradle to grave vegan.


The kid would break his hip taking the first step...


--Tedward


Two friends of mine have been bringing up their children as vegan
since birth (with the possible exception of breast milk, I am not
sure). The children are perfectly well. One of them is about seven
years old, I think.


-----


"exception of breast milk" indeed. A is A. Not A is not A.


You got two imaginary friends and Mr. Cho provided an actual picture.


--Tedward


They are not imaginary friends. The fact that I don't have photos of
them to hand is irrelevant; photos would prove nothing. An image of an
anorexic person has no bearing on the issue.


Your opinions are ignorant prejudices; you don't have any idea of what
you're talking about. If you did you would provide some real evidence.


-----


Now you're resorting to Ad Hominid attacks, a sure sign you've lost
the argument.


It's not an ad hominem argument. I am not basing my counter-argument
on the assertion that your opinions are ignorant prejudices, I have
given you plenty of good evidence to support my claims. The assertion
that your opinions are ignorant prejudices is just a factual
observation which I choose to put in there as well. It is quite
obviously true because you have shown yourself to be incapable of
producing any evidence to support your ill-founded beliefs.


If you insist on remaining ignorant then it's no skin off my nose; I
really couldn't care less.


-----


Evidence? We've provided a ton. You admit backhandedly that
children need milk. We have canines. We've all seen sickly looking
vegans (who BTW overlap with goths heavily).


maybe I'm shallow, hell I'll admit that I probably am - but you don't
see many (ANY?) decent looking vegans. They all look pasty and
malnourished. ****, comparing them to goths is being kind, I'd
compare them to zombies.


How would you know? Do you have some special faculty whereby whenever
you see someone walking down the street you can instantly tell whether
or not they are vegan?


you can make educated guesses - gaunt, pasty-complexion, no muscle
tone, stringy hair, veggie body odor, listless eyes, etc


I think it's obviously possible to make some wrong guesses, just as it's
possible to guess wrong about who's a queer and who isn't, but I think
it's not all that hard to be right more often than not. The reason is
that there are a lot of other "tells" available. All "vegans" are
left-wingers, although not all left-wingers are "vegans"; but if you see
a car plastered with a lot of ecotopian slogans and other left-wing
blabber, there's a pretty good chance that the owner is at least an
extreme vegetarian, if not "vegan". Also, if the driver gets out of the
car and is wearing Birkenstocks, that's another good "tell".

  #128 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-10-2012, 08:11 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,rec.sport.football.college,alt.food.vegan,rec.food.cooking,alt.gothic
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On Oct 11, 3:06*pm, George Plimpton wrote:
On 10/11/2012 11:56 AM, Mr. N.A.Cho wrote:





On Oct 11, 4:27 am, Rupert wrote:
On Oct 10, 5:53 pm, "Mr. N.A.Cho" wrote:


On Oct 10, 11:47 am, "The Undead Edward M. Kennedy"
wrote:


"Rupert" wrote


Check this out Its great
http://youtu.be/1LIyVBWaE_A


It's shit. It's unpalatable shit.


Why are "vegans" continually trying to make stuff look like and taste like meat? *Extremely* suspicious.


It's mostly for people who like meat but are trying to eat "healthy".


No one likes "vegan" food - no one.


Some actually do, the problem is none of them are healthy.


This isn't true. Just about everyone enjoys some food which is
suitable for vegans. And a significant majority of those people are
healthy. Furthermore a significant majority of those who consume an
exclusively vegan diet are quite healthy. The American Dietetic
Association has endorsed the position that appropriately-planned vegan
diets are nutritionally adequate at all stages of life, and carry many
significant health benefits.


-----


I was talking about vegans. While technically you and the ADD are
correct, it's like claiming unicorn farts are part of your diet.. Show
me the vegan who can appropriate plan a diet at all stages of life,
and I'll show you a unicorn because people need meat and dairy.


--Tedward


You're an idiot.- Hide quoted text -



I'd like to see the type of person that's a cradle to grave vegan.

  #129 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-10-2012, 08:53 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,rec.sport.football.college,alt.food.vegan,rec.food.cooking,alt.gothic
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On Oct 11, 2:06*pm, George Plimpton wrote:
On 10/11/2012 11:56 AM, Mr. N.A.Cho wrote:









On Oct 11, 4:27 am, Rupert wrote:
On Oct 10, 5:53 pm, "Mr. N.A.Cho" wrote:


On Oct 10, 11:47 am, "The Undead Edward M. Kennedy"
wrote:


"Rupert" wrote


Check this out Its great
http://youtu.be/1LIyVBWaE_A


It's shit. It's unpalatable shit.


Why are "vegans" continually trying to make stuff look like and taste like meat? *Extremely* suspicious.


It's mostly for people who like meat but are trying to eat "healthy".


No one likes "vegan" food - no one.


Some actually do, the problem is none of them are healthy.


This isn't true. Just about everyone enjoys some food which is
suitable for vegans. And a significant majority of those people are
healthy. Furthermore a significant majority of those who consume an
exclusively vegan diet are quite healthy. The American Dietetic
Association has endorsed the position that appropriately-planned vegan
diets are nutritionally adequate at all stages of life, and carry many
significant health benefits.


-----


I was talking about vegans. While technically you and the ADD are
correct, it's like claiming unicorn farts are part of your diet.. Show
me the vegan who can appropriate plan a diet at all stages of life,
and I'll show you a unicorn because people need meat and dairy.


--Tedward


You're an idiot.- Hide quoted text -



I'd like to see the type of person that's a cradle to grave vegan.

  #130 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-10-2012, 08:56 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,rec.sport.football.college,alt.food.vegan,rec.food.cooking,alt.gothic
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On 10/11/2012 12:53 PM, Bryan wrote:
On Oct 11, 2:06 pm, George Plimpton wrote:
On 10/11/2012 11:56 AM, Mr. N.A.Cho wrote:









On Oct 11, 4:27 am, Rupert wrote:
On Oct 10, 5:53 pm, "Mr. N.A.Cho" wrote:


On Oct 10, 11:47 am, "The Undead Edward M. Kennedy"
wrote:


"Rupert" wrote


Check this out Its great
http://youtu.be/1LIyVBWaE_A


It's shit. It's unpalatable shit.


Why are "vegans" continually trying to make stuff look like and taste like meat? *Extremely* suspicious.


It's mostly for people who like meat but are trying to eat "healthy".


No one likes "vegan" food - no one.


Some actually do, the problem is none of them are healthy.


This isn't true. Just about everyone enjoys some food which is
suitable for vegans. And a significant majority of those people are
healthy. Furthermore a significant majority of those who consume an
exclusively vegan diet are quite healthy. The American Dietetic
Association has endorsed the position that appropriately-planned vegan
diets are nutritionally adequate at all stages of life, and carry many
significant health benefits.


-----


I was talking about vegans. While technically you and the ADD are
correct, it's like claiming unicorn farts are part of your diet. Show
me the vegan who can appropriate plan a diet at all stages of life,
and I'll show you a unicorn because people need meat and dairy.


--Tedward


You're an idiot.- Hide quoted text -



I'd like to see the type of person that's a cradle to grave vegan.


The kid would break his hip taking the first step...


--Tedward


Two friends of mine have been bringing up their children as vegan
since birth (with the possible exception of breast milk, I am not
sure). The children are perfectly well. One of them is about seven
years old, I think.


-----


"exception of breast milk" indeed. A is A. Not A is not A.


You got two imaginary friends and Mr. Cho provided an actual picture.


--Tedward


They are not imaginary friends. The fact that I don't have photos of
them to hand is irrelevant; photos would prove nothing. An image of an
anorexic person has no bearing on the issue.


Your opinions are ignorant prejudices; you don't have any idea of what
you're talking about. If you did you would provide some real evidence.


-----


Now you're resorting to Ad Hominid attacks, a sure sign you've lost
the argument.


It's not an ad hominem argument. I am not basing my counter-argument
on the assertion that your opinions are ignorant prejudices, I have
given you plenty of good evidence to support my claims. The assertion
that your opinions are ignorant prejudices is just a factual
observation which I choose to put in there as well. It is quite
obviously true because you have shown yourself to be incapable of
producing any evidence to support your ill-founded beliefs.


If you insist on remaining ignorant then it's no skin off my nose; I
really couldn't care less.


-----


Evidence? We've provided a ton. You admit backhandedly that
children need milk. We have canines. We've all seen sickly looking
vegans (who BTW overlap with goths heavily).


maybe I'm shallow, hell I'll admit that I probably am - but you don't
see many (ANY?) decent looking vegans. They all look pasty and
malnourished. ****, comparing them to goths is being kind, I'd
compare them to zombies.


How would you know? Do you have some special faculty whereby whenever
you see someone walking down the street you can instantly tell whether
or not they are vegan?


you can make educated guesses - gaunt, pasty-complexion, no muscle
tone, stringy hair, veggie body odor, listless eyes, etc


I think it's obviously possible to make some wrong guesses, just as it's
possible to guess wrong about who's a queer and who isn't, but I think
it's not all that hard to be right more often than not. The reason is
that there are a lot of other "tells" available. All "vegans" are
left-wingers, although not all left-wingers are "vegans"; but if you see
a car plastered with a lot of ecotopian slogans and other left-wing
blabber, there's a pretty good chance that the owner is at least an
extreme vegetarian, if not "vegan". Also, if the driver gets out of the
car and is wearing Birkenstocks, that's another good "tell".


That's all correct George, and I am one of the exceptions. I am a
Lefty who could slaughter an animal and cut a piece out and eat it raw
right on the spot, and I could take joy in watching a Right-winger be
slowly eaten by piranhas while I chose not to throw a lifeline that
was two feet away from my hand.


....thus showing there are other ways to be a shitbag beyond being a food
Nazi.



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Old 11-10-2012, 09:55 PM posted to alt.creative+cooking,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan,rec.food.cooking
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On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 00:42:06 -0700 (PDT), Rupert
wrote:

On Oct 10, 9:58*pm, [email protected] wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 01:24:24 -0700 (PDT), Rupert
wrote:









On Oct 9, 8:06*pm, [email protected] wrote:
On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 09:37:18 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
wrote:
On Oct 8, 9:01 am, Rupert wrote:
On Oct 8, 5:45 pm, spamtrap1888 wrote:
On Oct 8, 4:50 am, Rupert wrote:


On Sep 21, 8:00 am, Goo wrote:


On 9/20/2012 3:04 PM, Just.Some.guy wrote:


Check this out Its great
http://youtu.be/1LIyVBWaE_A


It's shit. It's unpalatable shit.


How would you be in a position to know?


Why are "vegans" continually trying to make stuff look like and taste
like meat? *Extremely* suspicious.


Why?


Why do you think they call vegan meat Satan?


I didn't realize they did call it that.


They changed the spelling to throw people off the track.:


http://www.vrg.org/recipes/vjseitan.htm


* * It almost certainly involves more animal deaths than grass raised beef, and
in some cases grain fed beef. Not as bad as rice based products, but still worse
than grass raised beef if not grain fed as well.


How do you know?


* * The only way it could not is if there are no wildlife in the area where the
grain is grown. Of course with rice it's not a question due to the flooding and
draining in addition to all the machinery and chemical deaths.


I don't really find your remarks convincing. We did an examination of
one estimate for the expected collateral death rate associated with a
serving of tofu in the past, and it turned out to be less than the
corresponding estimate for grass-fed beef.


I don't remember that, but feel that an estimate for number of deaths per
serving of grass raised beef should be much less than one.
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Old 11-10-2012, 09:56 PM posted to alt.creative+cooking,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,rec.sport.football.college,alt.food.vegan,rec.food.cooking
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On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 14:04:39 -0700 (PDT), "Mr. N.A.Cho"
wrote:

On Oct 10, 4:09*pm, Goo wrote:
On 10/10/2012 12:54 PM, [email protected] wrote:
On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 15:10:23 -0400, "The Undead Edward M. Kennedy"
wrote:


"CheeseHusker dos" wrote


Check this out Its great
http://youtu.be/1LIyVBWaE_A


It's shit. It's unpalatable shit.


Why are "vegans" continually trying to make stuff look like and taste like meat? *Extremely* suspicious.


It's mostly for people who like meat but are trying to eat "healthy".


No one likes "vegan" food - no one.


Some actually do, the problem is none of them are healthy.

I don't the title of this thread - why would anyone want to make
sausage from vegetarians?


Maybe some people need to limit the amount of protein in
thier diet...?


* * *Veganism is more than just concern about health and diet. Vegans try to
avoid using any products which contribute to the lives and deaths of livestock
animals


There is no reason to "contribute" to livestock animals "getting to
experience life."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


this now reminds me of the Twilight Zone Episode "To Serve Man".

IT'S A COOKBOOK!!!!!


Whatever. Billions of livestock animals do live only because they're raised
for food so their lives deserve as much or more consideration than their deaths.
Eliminationists who abuse the gross misnomer "animal rights" are opposed to
giving the animals' lives as much or more consideration than their deaths
because doing so works against the elimination objective. In case anyone is
unaware of it they not only want to eliminate livestock but all domestic
animals. The difference between animal welfare and the misnomer is: the animals.
AW wants to provide decent lives to billions of animals, while the misnomer
wants to prevent such animals from existing.
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Old 11-10-2012, 09:56 PM posted to alt.creative+cooking,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,rec.sport.football.college,alt.food.vegan,rec.food.cooking
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On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 08:06:40 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
wrote:

On Oct 10, 1:06*pm, [email protected] wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 07:18:10 -0700 (PDT), Rupert
wrote:


and I also think that I enjoy my food now about as much
as I used to before I became vegan. And I also believe that by being
vegan I'm reducing my expected contribution to animal suffering.


* * It depends how a person does it. I feel certain there are vegans who buy
rice milk when even regular cow milk almost certainly involves fewer deaths, and
grass raised dairy undoubtedly does.


Arsenic soup. Vegans who drink rice milk contribute to their own
animal suffering.

http://www.foodsmatter.com/foodsmatt...nic-panic-134/


Less arsenic does seem like another good point in favor of cow milk.
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Old 11-10-2012, 09:56 PM posted to alt.creative+cooking,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,rec.sport.football.college,alt.food.vegan,rec.food.cooking
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Default Vegetarian Breakfast Sausage (meatless sausage)

On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 01:17:44 -0700 (PDT), Rupert
wrote:

On Oct 10, 9:56*pm, [email protected] wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 07:33:24 -0700 (PDT), Rupert
wrote:









On Oct 10, 4:28*pm, "The Undead Edward M. Kennedy" wrote:
"Rupert" wrote


Check this out Its great
http://youtu.be/1LIyVBWaE_A


It's shit. It's unpalatable shit.


Why are "vegans" continually trying to make stuff look like and taste like meat? *Extremely* suspicious.


It's mostly for people who like meat but are trying to eat "healthy".


No one likes "vegan" food - no one.


Some actually do, the problem is none of them are healthy.


This isn't true. Just about everyone enjoys some food which is
suitable for vegans. And a significant majority of those people are
healthy. Furthermore a significant majority of those who consume an
exclusively vegan diet are quite healthy. The American Dietetic
Association has endorsed the position that appropriately-planned vegan
diets are nutritionally adequate at all stages of life, and carry many
significant health benefits.


-----


I was talking about vegans. *While technically you and the ADD are
correct, it's like claiming unicorn farts are part of your diet. *Show
me the vegan who can appropriate plan a diet at all stages of life,
and I'll show you a unicorn because people need meat and dairy.


I know plenty of vegans who have well-planned diets and are perfectly
healthy, and at least two doctors have told me that it is a very good
thing that I am vegan.


* * Why would a doctor tell you it's good you're a vegan?


Presumably because they believed it to be the case.


Being a vegan isn't only about your health.

It is just as easy to sensibly plan a vegan
diet as an omnivorous one. Your opinions about vegans are just not
especially well-informed; you don't really know what you're talking
about.


* * You don't contribute to any decent lives for livestock, but only to the
deaths of wildlife. Hopefully he knows that much at least.


I have taken steps to reduce my contribution to the amount of
suffering that takes place. I don't see any good reason to think that
the strategy I've chosen is a poor one.


You could contribute to decent lives for livestock, and probably to less
suffering at the same time.
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Old 11-10-2012, 10:02 PM posted to alt.creative+cooking,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,rec.sport.football.college,alt.food.vegan,rec.food.cooking
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Default Vegetarian Breakfast Sausage (meatless sausage)

On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 01:15:05 -0700 (PDT), Rupert
wrote:

On Oct 10, 10:06*pm, [email protected] wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 07:18:10 -0700 (PDT), Rupert
wrote:









On Oct 10, 4:09 pm, "J.C. Watts" wrote:
On Oct 10, 3:26 am, Rupert wrote:


On Oct 9, 8:40 pm, "The Undead Edward M. Kennedy" wrote:


"George Plimpton" wrote


Check this out Its great
http://youtu.be/1LIyVBWaE_A


It's shit. It's unpalatable shit.


Why are "vegans" continually trying to make stuff look like and taste like meat? *Extremely* suspicious.


It's mostly for people who like meat but are trying to eat "healthy".


No one likes "vegan" food - no one.


Some actually do, the problem is none of them are healthy.


This isn't true. Just about everyone enjoys some food which is
suitable for vegans. And a significant majority of those people are
healthy. Furthermore a significant majority of those who consume an
exclusively vegan diet are quite healthy. The American Dietetic
Association has endorsed the position that appropriately-planned vegan
diets are nutritionally adequate at all stages of life, and carry many
significant health benefits.


Yeah, but hamburgers taste so much better.


Well, if that's what you reckon then that's fine. I've been vegan for
about 16 years and I definitely remember that I used to enjoy the
taste of meat


* * Then why didn't you begin contributing to decent lives for cattle by buying
grass raise beef and dairy products instead of not contributing to anything
other than the deaths of wildlife?


Let's be clear about what you think the upside would be. You think
that I would be increasing the expected number of cows who come into
existence and lead fairly happy lives, as well as reducing my
contribution to collateral deaths caused by plant-based agriculture,
and that would be a good thing? Is that the story?


If you did it right, yes. If you didn't, no. If you bought a veal calf that
was soon to be slaughtered and made a deal with a farmer to raise it for you for
two years with no grain, then you had it humanely slaughtered and you ate that
instead of your soy stuff you would reduce your contribution plus benefit a
livestock animal in the biggest way. You could do the same with the brothers of
commercial laying hens. You might even be able to get them for free and give
them a good life, then slaughter humanely... That's probably the best way you
could do it, but there are variations between that and doing nothing as you are
now.

and I also think that I enjoy my food now about as much
as I used to before I became vegan. And I also believe that by being
vegan I'm reducing my expected contribution to animal suffering.


* * It depends how a person does it. I feel certain there are vegans who buy
rice milk when even regular cow milk almost certainly involves fewer deaths, and
grass raised dairy undoubtedly does.


Well, how did you come to that conclusion; do you have any kind of
estimate available for how many premature deaths are required to
produce one serving of rice milk?


"ok, get your calculator out, we'll be numerate he

it takes 7 passes with a 30' combine to cut an acre (208' x 208'). to
digest 7,000 frogs in that acre (7,000 1st cutting + 3,000 2nd cutting
for a total of 10,000 - hard shower), that means 1000 unlucky (slow, bad
jumpers, ...) frogs in the 6240 sq.ft. that constitutes *one* pass, or
one per 6+ sq.ft. or 5 per lineal foot of travel.

i *did* say these numbers were conservative, didn't i?

for the 'deluge' (i used 35,000 in the faq, divided 25k & 10k per
cutting), the numbers are ~3500 per pass; one for every 1½ sq.ft.; and
~17 per lineal foot of travel.

[...]

The closest diderot comes to providing us with evidence we could
possibly remeasure is his "500 yard long, foot-wide windrows of drowned
grey and brown (rats)". You and I could layout rats in a matching
configuration and do a head count, but there wouldn't be much point
since diderot goes on to say that this mass drowning occurs "whenever
the rice is flooded". Then he neglects to tell us how often he floods
his fields.


rice has to grow in water, so it is flooded in april, drained for
harvest in july/august, reflooded and drained in october. we flood in
mid-december for waterfowl, and drain in february. in february and
march, the land is disced and planed." - didderot

But you may find it unlikely that you would enjoy food and/or you may
not find the consideration about animal suffering to be compelling.
Which is of course your choice, I have no interest in trying to get
you to change your mind.


* * I told a guy about the difference between cage free and battery farmed eggs
and he started buying cage free. So he's doing something while veganism does
nothing.


This assertion strikes me as irrational. Moving from battery-farmed
eggs to cage-free eggs is of course an improvement, and moving to no
eggs at all is at least as much of an improvement.


Not from my pov. From my pov not supporting the cage free method is nothing
more than not supporting the cage free method. I believe the cage method is
cruel but that most cage free hens have lives of positive value to them. If you
don't know what that means yet then you just don't know.

Vegans help livestock like dead people help livestock, while at the
same time still contributing to the deaths of wildlife that most people do.


The belief is that most animals living on modern farms have lives
which contain a lot of suffering, and the motivation is to reduce the
number of animals who are brought into existence in order to lead such
lives. Veganism sounds like one pretty rational strategy for achieving
this goal. But perhaps you think that there is something wrong with
the goal?


I believe a lot of livestock do have lives of positive value, and that
almost all of them could if people took the interest. Amusingly before I started
posting here I imagined that sort of thing and what could be done to make their
lives better was the sort of things people discussed, and WHICH animals have
lives of positive value and which do not. LOL...you people can't get anywhere
near stuff like that.


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