On 10/10/2012 10:57 AM, Bryan wrote:
> On Oct 10, 9:25 am, George Plimpton > wrote:
>> On 10/10/2012 5:00 AM, Bryan wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Sep 21, 1:00 am, George Plimpton > wrote:
>>>> On 9/20/2012 3:04 PM, Just.Some.guy wrote:
>>
>>>>> Check this out Its great
>>>>> http://youtu.be/1LIyVBWaE_A
>>
>>>> It's shit. It's unpalatable shit.
>>
>>>> Why are "vegans" continually trying to make stuff look like and taste
>>>> like meat? *Extremely* suspicious.
>>
>>>> No one likes "vegan" food - no one.
>>
>>> I know I've posted this several times, but there are new folks he
>>
>>> Originally posted Jun 28 2001:
>>
>>> You've heard of omnivorous
>>> You've heard of vegetarianism
>>> You've heard of vegan
>>> You've heard of fruitarian
>>> But now, straight from the twisted brain of yours truly, here comes
>>> Amputarianism. Amputarianism fits in between omnivorousness and
>>> vegetarianism.
>>> You can eat meat, but only if the animal is not killed to produce the
>>> meat. You are allowed to eat animals that have died of natural
>>> causes, but also parts of animals that have been removed from the
>>> animal in such a way that it does not cause the death of the animal.
>>> [...]
>>
>> A farmer walks into a bar with a three-legged pig. The bartender
>> asks, "How come that pig's missing a leg?"
>>
>> "Well," says the farmer, "there was a big fire. My house burned
>> right down to the ground. My family and I all would have burned
>> up with it if this pig hadn't come into the flaming, smoke-filled
>> house and dragged each of us out, one by one."
>>
>> "Wow," says the bartender, respectfully.
>>
>> "Yep," says the farmer, "and you just don't eat a pig like that
>> all at once."
>
> When I tell that joke, I really stretch it out with a lot of details.
> The punch line is something like, "You city fellers don't know much
> about animals, do ya? If ya had a pig that was that good, you
> wouldn't et 'im all at once now, wouldja?"

Yes, I've heard (and told) a longer, more drawn-out version of it, but I
wasn't going to key it up from memory, and that was the first version I
found on-line.

On Oct 10, 8:36*am, Rupert > wrote:
> On Oct 10, 5:32*pm, CheeseHusker dos > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 10, 9:18*am, Rupert > wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 10, 4:09*pm, "J.C. Watts" > wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 10, 3:26*am, Rupert > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Oct 9, 8:40*pm, "The Undead Edward M. Kennedy" > wrote:
>
> > > > > > "George Plimpton" > wrote
>
> > > > > > >> Check this out Its great
> > > > > > >>http://youtu.be/1LIyVBWaE_A
>
> > > > > > > It's shit. *It's unpalatable shit.
>
> > > > > > > Why are "vegans" continually trying to make stuff look like and taste like meat? **Extremely* suspicious.
>
> > > > > > It's mostly for people who like meat but are trying to eat "healthy".
>
> > > > > > > No one likes "vegan" food - no one.
>
> > > > > > Some actually do, the problem is none of them are healthy.
>
> > > > > This isn't true. Just about everyone enjoys some food which is
> > > > > suitable for vegans. And a significant majority of those people are
> > > > > healthy. Furthermore a significant majority of those who consume an
> > > > > exclusively vegan diet are quite healthy. The American Dietetic
> > > > > Association has endorsed the position that appropriately-planned vegan
> > > > > diets are nutritionally adequate at all stages of life, and carry many
> > > > > significant health benefits.
>
> > > > Yeah, but hamburgers taste so much better.
>
> > > Well, if that's what you reckon then that's fine. I've been vegan for
> > > about 16 years and I definitely remember that I used to enjoy the
> > > taste of meat and I also think that I enjoy my food now about as much
> > > as I used to before I became vegan. And I also believe that by being
> > > vegan I'm reducing my expected contribution to animal suffering.
>
> > > But you may find it unlikely that you would enjoy food and/or you may
> > > not find the consideration about animal suffering to be compelling.
> > > Which is of course your choice, I have no interest in trying to get
> > > you to change your mind.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Why do you enjoy inflicting pain onto vegetables and fruits?
>
> No sensible person believes that vegetables and fruits are capable of
> experiencing pain.

The only ethical diet is fruit-only. If you eat a carrot, or broccoli,
or cauliflower, that plant's life is over, and you are a premeditated
murderer. But you can pick apples, or peaches, or even beans, peppers,
and tomatoes, without killing the plant.

Rupert wrote:
> On Oct 9, 9:55 pm, Dutch > wrote:
>> George M. Middius wrote:
>>> CheeseHusker dos wrote:
>>
>>>> I don't the title of this thread - why would anyone want to make
>>>> sausage from vegetarians?
>>
>>> Not speaking from experience, but they're reputed to make a very tasty
>>> sausages.
>>
>> I imagine they'd be bland and tasteless.
>
> Why; have you tried them before? If not, then how would you know?
>

It was an attempt at humour Rupert, lame, I know..

While I have your attention, do you know of any good layman's text on
randomness? I have been curious about the nature of randomness and it's
appearance to the human mind for a long time. I take from own experience
playing cards that luck appears to be noticeably clumpy rather than
following something that I would perceive as random. For example when
playing Rubber Bridge it seems most often the case that one player or
team will be dealt good cards more or less continuously over a whole
evening more often than the luck swinging back and forth from player to
player or team to team. In poker streaks of good and bad luck take place
over quite long periods, sometimes months, that seems counter-intuitive
to me. Also, in almost every hold'em poker tournament I play in there is
one wild player who wins hand after hand after hand despite having the
odds against him in almost every case. Despite my belief that
superstition should play no role in gambling, I feel like I want to to
avoid going against such a player even when the odds are in my favour.
So far my only conclusion is that human intuition simply doesn't apply,
and randomness is inexplicable.

On Oct 10, 2:38*pm, spamtrap1888 > wrote:
> On Oct 10, 8:36*am, Rupert > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 10, 5:32*pm, CheeseHusker dos > wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 10, 9:18*am, Rupert > wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 10, 4:09*pm, "J.C. Watts" > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Oct 10, 3:26*am, Rupert > wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Oct 9, 8:40*pm, "The Undead Edward M. Kennedy" > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > "George Plimpton" > wrote
>
> > > > > > > >> Check this out Its great
> > > > > > > >>http://youtu.be/1LIyVBWaE_A
>
> > > > > > > > It's shit. *It's unpalatable shit.
>
> > > > > > > > Why are "vegans" continually trying to make stuff look like and taste like meat? **Extremely* suspicious.
>
> > > > > > > It's mostly for people who like meat but are trying to eat "healthy".
>
> > > > > > > > No one likes "vegan" food - no one.
>
> > > > > > > Some actually do, the problem is none of them are healthy.
>
> > > > > > This isn't true. Just about everyone enjoys some food which is
> > > > > > suitable for vegans. And a significant majority of those people are
> > > > > > healthy. Furthermore a significant majority of those who consume an
> > > > > > exclusively vegan diet are quite healthy. The American Dietetic
> > > > > > Association has endorsed the position that appropriately-planned vegan
> > > > > > diets are nutritionally adequate at all stages of life, and carry many
> > > > > > significant health benefits.
>
> > > > > Yeah, but hamburgers taste so much better.
>
> > > > Well, if that's what you reckon then that's fine. I've been vegan for
> > > > about 16 years and I definitely remember that I used to enjoy the
> > > > taste of meat and I also think that I enjoy my food now about as much
> > > > as I used to before I became vegan. And I also believe that by being
> > > > vegan I'm reducing my expected contribution to animal suffering.
>
> > > > But you may find it unlikely that you would enjoy food and/or you may
> > > > not find the consideration about animal suffering to be compelling.
> > > > Which is of course your choice, I have no interest in trying to get
> > > > you to change your mind.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > Why do you enjoy inflicting pain onto vegetables and fruits?
>
> > No sensible person believes that vegetables and fruits are capable of
> > experiencing pain.
>
> The only ethical diet is fruit-only. If you eat a carrot, or broccoli,
> or cauliflower, that plant's life is over, and you are a premeditated
> murderer. But you can pick apples, or peaches, or even beans, peppers,
> and tomatoes, without killing the plant.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

what about if the plant is dying, like at the end of the growing
season. Open season then right?

On 10/10/2012 11:41 AM, Dutch wrote:
> Rupert wrote:
>> On Oct 9, 9:55 pm, Dutch > wrote:
>>> George M. Middius wrote:
>>>> CheeseHusker dos wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I don't the title of this thread - why would anyone want to make
>>>>> sausage from vegetarians?
>>>
>>>> Not speaking from experience, but they're reputed to make a very tasty
>>>> sausages.
>>>
>>> I imagine they'd be bland and tasteless.
>>
>> Why; have you tried them before? If not, then how would you know?
>>
>
> It was an attempt at humour Rupert, lame, I know..
>
> While I have your attention, do you know of any good layman's text on
> randomness? I have been curious about the nature of randomness and it's
> appearance to the human mind for a long time.

Don't you mean its *lack* of appearance to the human mind? In fact,
humans are notorious for imagining they see repeating non-random
patterns when in fact there are none.


> I take from own experience
> playing cards that luck appears to be noticeably clumpy rather than
> following something that I would perceive as random. For example when
> playing Rubber Bridge it seems most often the case that one player or
> team will be dealt good cards more or less continuously over a whole
> evening more often than the luck swinging back and forth from player to
> player or team to team. In poker streaks of good and bad luck take place
> over quite long periods, sometimes months, that seems counter-intuitive
> to me. Also, in almost every hold'em poker tournament I play in there is
> one wild player who wins hand after hand after hand despite having the
> odds against him in almost every case. Despite my belief that
> superstition should play no role in gambling, I feel like I want to to
> avoid going against such a player even when the odds are in my favour.
> So far my only conclusion is that human intuition simply doesn't apply,
> and randomness is inexplicable.

Dutch wrote:

> I have been curious about the nature of randomness and it's
> appearance to the human mind for a long time.

That "sentence" is an exemplar of randomness.

George Plimpton wrote:
>> While I have your attention, do you know of any good layman's text on
>> randomness? I have been curious about the nature of randomness and it's
>> appearance to the human mind for a long time.
>
> Don't you mean its *lack* of appearance to the human mind?

I mean how it is perceived by the human mind.

In fact,
> humans are notorious for imagining they see repeating non-random
> patterns when in fact there are none.

I agree. The deal of cards is random, I recognize that.

I actually don't expect to come away with anything more than random is
random, therefore beyond human comprehension, futile to think about it,
certainly do not base decisions on any perceived "patterns". I still
find it interesting though. I play online poker and the streaky nature
of it always amazes me.

George M. Middius wrote:
> Dutch wrote:
>
>> I have been curious about the nature of randomness and it's
>> appearance to the human mind for a long time.
>
> That "sentence" is an exemplar of randomness.
>
>

How do you mean? Do you mean curiosity is an example of randomness?

"Dutch" > wrote

>>> I have been curious about the nature of randomness and it's
>>> appearance to the human mind for a long time.
>>
>> That "sentence" is an exemplar of randomness.
>>
>>
>
> How do you mean? Do you mean curiosity is an example of randomness?

Curiosity killed Schrodinger's cat.

--Tedward

[The Undead Edward M. Kennedy, ]
[Wed, 10 Oct 2012 15:29:49 -0400]

: Curiosity killed Schrodinger's cat.

Maybe.


--
Antonio Veranos

<insert witty comment here>

On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 15:10:23 -0400, "The Undead Edward M. Kennedy" >
wrote:

>"CheeseHusker dos" > wrote
>
>> >> Check this out Its great
>> >>http://youtu.be/1LIyVBWaE_A
>>
>> > It's shit. It's unpalatable shit.
>>
>> > Why are "vegans" continually trying to make stuff look like and taste like meat? *Extremely* suspicious.
>>
>> It's mostly for people who like meat but are trying to eat "healthy".
>>
>> > No one likes "vegan" food - no one.
>>
>> Some actually do, the problem is none of them are healthy.
><
><I don't the title of this thread - why would anyone want to make
><sausage from vegetarians?
>
>Maybe some people need to limit the amount of protein in
>thier diet...?

Veganism is more than just concern about health and diet. Vegans try to
avoid using any products which contribute to the lives and deaths of livestock
animals and only want to contribute to things which cause death to wildlife.

· Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
What they try to avoid are products which provide life
(and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
to avoid the following items containing animal by-products
in order to be successful:

tires, paper, upholstery, floor waxes, glass, water
filters, rubber, fertilizer, antifreeze, ceramics, insecticides,
insulation, linoleum, plastic, textiles, blood factors, collagen,
heparin, insulin, solvents, biodegradable detergents, herbicides,
gelatin capsules, adhesive tape, laminated wood products,
plywood, paneling, wallpaper and wallpaper paste, cellophane
wrap and tape, abrasives, steel ball bearings

The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
slaughters, and the animals live and die as a result of it
as animals do in other habitats. They also depend on it for
their lives as animals do in other habitats. If people consume
animal products from animals they think are raised in decent
ways, they will be promoting life for more such animals in the
future. People who want to contribute to decent lives for
livestock with their lifestyle must do it by being conscientious
consumers of animal products, because they can not do it by
being vegan.
From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is
likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings
derived from grass raised animals. Grass raised animal products
contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
better lives for livestock than soy or rice products. ·

On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 07:33:24 -0700 (PDT), Rupert >
wrote:

>On Oct 10, 4:28*pm, "The Undead Edward M. Kennedy" > wrote:
>> "Rupert" > wrote
>>
>> > >> Check this out Its great
>> > >>http://youtu.be/1LIyVBWaE_A
>>
>> > > It's shit. It's unpalatable shit.
>>
>> > > Why are "vegans" continually trying to make stuff look like and taste like meat? *Extremely* suspicious.
>>
>> > It's mostly for people who like meat but are trying to eat "healthy".
>>
>> > > No one likes "vegan" food - no one.
>>
>> > Some actually do, the problem is none of them are healthy.
>>
>> This isn't true. Just about everyone enjoys some food which is
>> suitable for vegans. And a significant majority of those people are
>> healthy. Furthermore a significant majority of those who consume an
>> exclusively vegan diet are quite healthy. The American Dietetic
>> Association has endorsed the position that appropriately-planned vegan
>> diets are nutritionally adequate at all stages of life, and carry many
>> significant health benefits.
>>
>> -----
>>
>> I was talking about vegans. *While technically you and the ADD are
>> correct, it's like claiming unicorn farts are part of your diet. *Show
>> me the vegan who can appropriate plan a diet at all stages of life,
>> and I'll show you a unicorn because people need meat and dairy.
>>
>
>I know plenty of vegans who have well-planned diets and are perfectly
>healthy, and at least two doctors have told me that it is a very good
>thing that I am vegan.

Why would a doctor tell you it's good you're a vegan?

>It is just as easy to sensibly plan a vegan
>diet as an omnivorous one. Your opinions about vegans are just not
>especially well-informed; you don't really know what you're talking
>about.

You don't contribute to any decent lives for livestock, but only to the
deaths of wildlife. Hopefully he knows that much at least.

On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 01:24:24 -0700 (PDT), Rupert >
wrote:

>On Oct 9, 8:06*pm, dh@. wrote:
>> On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 09:37:18 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888 >
>> wrote:

>> >On Oct 8, 9:01 am, Rupert > wrote:
>> >> On Oct 8, 5:45 pm, spamtrap1888 > wrote:
>> >> > On Oct 8, 4:50 am, Rupert > wrote:
>>
>> >> > > On Sep 21, 8:00 am, Goo wrote:
>>
>> >> > > > On 9/20/2012 3:04 PM, Just.Some.guy wrote:
>>
>> >> > > > > Check this out Its great
>> >> > > > >http://youtu.be/1LIyVBWaE_A
>>
>> >> > > > It's shit. It's unpalatable shit.
>>
>> >> > > How would you be in a position to know?
>>
>> >> > > > Why are "vegans" continually trying to make stuff look like and taste
>> >> > > > like meat? *Extremely* suspicious.
>>
>> >> > > Why?
>>
>> >> > Why do you think they call vegan meat Satan?
>>
>> >> I didn't realize they did call it that.
>>
>> >They changed the spelling to throw people off the track.:
>>
>> >http://www.vrg.org/recipes/vjseitan.htm
>>
>> * * It almost certainly involves more animal deaths than grass raised beef, and
>> in some cases grain fed beef. Not as bad as rice based products, but still worse
>> than grass raised beef if not grain fed as well.
>
>How do you know?

The only way it could not is if there are no wildlife in the area where the
grain is grown. Of course with rice it's not a question due to the flooding and
draining in addition to all the machinery and chemical deaths.

On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 07:18:10 -0700 (PDT), Rupert >
wrote:

>On Oct 10, 4:09*pm, "J.C. Watts" > wrote:
>> On Oct 10, 3:26*am, Rupert > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Oct 9, 8:40*pm, "The Undead Edward M. Kennedy" > wrote:
>>
>> > > "George Plimpton" > wrote
>>
>> > > >> Check this out Its great
>> > > >>http://youtu.be/1LIyVBWaE_A
>>
>> > > > It's shit. *It's unpalatable shit.
>>
>> > > > Why are "vegans" continually trying to make stuff look like and taste like meat? **Extremely* suspicious.
>>
>> > > It's mostly for people who like meat but are trying to eat "healthy".
>>
>> > > > No one likes "vegan" food - no one.
>>
>> > > Some actually do, the problem is none of them are healthy.
>>
>> > This isn't true. Just about everyone enjoys some food which is
>> > suitable for vegans. And a significant majority of those people are
>> > healthy. Furthermore a significant majority of those who consume an
>> > exclusively vegan diet are quite healthy. The American Dietetic
>> > Association has endorsed the position that appropriately-planned vegan
>> > diets are nutritionally adequate at all stages of life, and carry many
>> > significant health benefits.
>>
>> Yeah, but hamburgers taste so much better.
>
>Well, if that's what you reckon then that's fine. I've been vegan for
>about 16 years and I definitely remember that I used to enjoy the
>taste of meat

Then why didn't you begin contributing to decent lives for cattle by buying
grass raise beef and dairy products instead of not contributing to anything
other than the deaths of wildlife?

>and I also think that I enjoy my food now about as much
>as I used to before I became vegan. And I also believe that by being
>vegan I'm reducing my expected contribution to animal suffering.

It depends how a person does it. I feel certain there are vegans who buy
rice milk when even regular cow milk almost certainly involves fewer deaths, and
grass raised dairy undoubtedly does.

>But you may find it unlikely that you would enjoy food and/or you may
>not find the consideration about animal suffering to be compelling.
>Which is of course your choice, I have no interest in trying to get
>you to change your mind.

I told a guy about the difference between cage free and battery farmed eggs
and he started buying cage free. So he's doing something while veganism does
nothing. Vegans help livestock like dead people help livestock, while at the
same time still contributing to the deaths of wildlife that most people do.

On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 07:22:28 -0700 (PDT), Rupert >
wrote:

>On Oct 10, 4:21*pm, Goo wrote:
>> On 10/10/2012 1:24 AM, Rupert wrote:
>>
>> > On Oct 9, 5:43 pm, Goo wrote:
>> >> On 10/9/2012 8:12 AM, Rupert wrote:
>>
>> >>> On Oct 9, 5:03 pm, Goo wrote:
>> >>>> On 10/9/2012 3:34 AM, Rupert wrote:
>>
>> >>>>> On Oct 8, 7:07 pm, Goo wrote:
>> >>>>>> On 10/8/2012 9:37 AM, spamtrap1888 wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>>> On Oct 8, 9:01 am, Rupert > wrote:
>> >>>>>>>> On Oct 8, 5:45 pm, spamtrap1888 > wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>>>>> On Oct 8, 4:50 am, Rupert > wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sep 21, 8:00 am, Goo wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 9/20/2012 3:04 PM, Just.Some.guy wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Check this out Its great
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>http://youtu.be/1LIyVBWaE_A
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> It's shit. *It's unpalatable shit.
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> How would you be in a position to know?
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Why are "vegans" continually trying to make stuff look like and taste
>> >>>>>>>>>>> like meat? **Extremely* suspicious.
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Why?
>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Why do you think they call vegan meat Satan?
>>
>> >>>>>>>> I didn't realize they did call it that.
>>
>> >>>>>>> They changed the spelling to throw people off the track.:
>>
>> >>>>>>>http://www.vrg.org/recipes/vjseitan.htm
>>
>> >>>>>> Ha ha ha ha ha - good one!
>>
>> >>>>> You thought it was a good joke?
>>
>> >>>> It was a great joke, especially because you fell for it.
>>
>> >>> I don't really understand why you think I fell for it.
>>
>> >> Because I saw you fall for it. *You fell right over.
>>
>> > I don't understand what you mean. What happened was that I said I
>> > didn't realize that they called vegan meat Satan, which is of course
>> > true. At that stage I didn't realize that he wanted to make a pun on
>> > the names of one of the mock meats, but then he explained himself.
>>
>> <chortle>
>
>You don't seem to be willing to explain yourself.

It appears that this is yet another challenge the Goober can't even pretend
to try to meet. You can apparently defeat him with it every time you present him
with it.

On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 12:47:12 -0700, Dutch > wrote:

>On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 13:58:11 -0400, dh@. wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 04:49:59 -0700 (PDT), Rupert >
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sep 21, 8:00*am, Goo wrote:
>>>> On 9/20/2012 3:04 PM, Just.Some.guy wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Check this out Its great
>>>> >http://youtu.be/1LIyVBWaE_A
>>>>
>>>> It's shit. *It's unpalatable shit.
>>>>
>>>
>>>How would you be in a position to know?
>>>
>>>> Why are "vegans" continually trying to make stuff look like and taste
>>>> like meat? **Extremely* suspicious.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Why?
>>>
>>>> No one likes "vegan" food - no one.
>>>
>>>That's obvious rubbish.
>>
>> Most of you people who are supposedly ethical veg*ns probably always hated
>>the taste and idea of eating the flesh of animals for whatever personal reasons.
>>That's something you would have to learn to get over in order to advance to a
>>higher position in which you could actually contribute to decent lives for
>>livestock animals with your lifestyle, instead of only to the deaths of wildlife
>>as you are restricted to by that lifestyle. That fact plus the fact that no meat
>>consumer has reason to oppose considering livestock animals' lives
>
>Considering them what?

As much as or more than their deaths of course. Duh.

>>plus the fact
>>that it's highly unlikely that a person would completely change their pov
>>entirely all of a sudden for no reason they can explain, are all very strong
>>reasons to feel the "Dutch" character is lying when he claims that he did
>>completely change his pov entirely all of a sudden for no reason he can explain
>>and also began eating meat. He's lying because he admires and wants to be like
>>Goo.

On 10/10/2012 12:54 PM, dh@. wrote:
> On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 15:10:23 -0400, "The Undead Edward M. Kennedy" >
> wrote:
>
>> "CheeseHusker dos" > wrote
>>
>>>>> Check this out Its great
>>>>> http://youtu.be/1LIyVBWaE_A
>>>
>>>> It's shit. It's unpalatable shit.
>>>
>>>> Why are "vegans" continually trying to make stuff look like and taste like meat? *Extremely* suspicious.
>>>
>>> It's mostly for people who like meat but are trying to eat "healthy".
>>>
>>>> No one likes "vegan" food - no one.
>>>
>>> Some actually do, the problem is none of them are healthy.
>> <
>> <I don't the title of this thread - why would anyone want to make
>> <sausage from vegetarians?
>>
>> Maybe some people need to limit the amount of protein in
>> thier diet...?
>
> Veganism is more than just concern about health and diet. Vegans try to
> avoid using any products which contribute to the lives and deaths of livestock
> animals

There is no reason to "contribute" to livestock animals "getting to
experience life."

On Oct 10, 4:09*pm, George Plimpton > wrote:
> On 10/10/2012 12:54 PM, dh@. wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 15:10:23 -0400, "The Undead Edward M. Kennedy" >
> > wrote:
>
> >> "CheeseHusker dos" > wrote
>
> >>>>> Check this out Its great
> >>>>>http://youtu.be/1LIyVBWaE_A
>
> >>>> It's shit. It's unpalatable shit.
>
> >>>> Why are "vegans" continually trying to make stuff look like and taste like meat? *Extremely* suspicious.
>
> >>> It's mostly for people who like meat but are trying to eat "healthy".
>
> >>>> No one likes "vegan" food - no one.
>
> >>> Some actually do, the problem is none of them are healthy.
> >> <
> >> <I don't the title of this thread - why would anyone want to make
> >> <sausage from vegetarians?
>
> >> Maybe some people need to limit the amount of protein in
> >> thier diet...?
>
> > * * *Veganism is more than just concern about health and diet. Vegans try to
> > avoid using any products which contribute to the lives and deaths of livestock
> > animals
>
> There is no reason to "contribute" to livestock animals "getting to
> experience life."- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

this now reminds me of the Twilight Zone Episode "To Serve Man".

IT'S A COOKBOOK!!!!!

In article >, Dutch >
wrote:

> Rupert wrote:
> > On Oct 9, 9:55 pm, Dutch > wrote:
> >> George M. Middius wrote:
> >>> CheeseHusker dos wrote:
> >>
> >>>> I don't the title of this thread - why would anyone want to make
> >>>> sausage from vegetarians?
> >>
> >>> Not speaking from experience, but they're reputed to make a very tasty
> >>> sausages.
> >>
> >> I imagine they'd be bland and tasteless.
> >
> > Why; have you tried them before? If not, then how would you know?
> >
>
> It was an attempt at humour Rupert, lame, I know..
>
> While I have your attention, do you know of any good layman's text on
> randomness? I have been curious about the nature of randomness and it's
> appearance to the human mind for a long time. I take from own experience
> playing cards that luck appears to be noticeably clumpy rather than
> following something that I would perceive as random. For example when
> playing Rubber Bridge it seems most often the case that one player or
> team will be dealt good cards more or less continuously over a whole
> evening more often than the luck swinging back and forth from player to
> player or team to team. In poker streaks of good and bad luck take place
> over quite long periods, sometimes months, that seems counter-intuitive
> to me. Also, in almost every hold'em poker tournament I play in there is
> one wild player who wins hand after hand after hand despite having the
> odds against him in almost every case. Despite my belief that
> superstition should play no role in gambling, I feel like I want to to
> avoid going against such a player even when the odds are in my favour.
> So far my only conclusion is that human intuition simply doesn't apply,
> and randomness is inexplicable.

You rely on your memory. You need to record every card
over that time. Maybe you do not play your good hands
as well as others do. Maybe people are cheating.

--
Michael Press

Michael Press wrote:
> In article >, Dutch >
> wrote:
>
>> Rupert wrote:
>>> On Oct 9, 9:55 pm, Dutch > wrote:
>>>> George M. Middius wrote:
>>>>> CheeseHusker dos wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> I don't the title of this thread - why would anyone want to make
>>>>>> sausage from vegetarians?
>>>>
>>>>> Not speaking from experience, but they're reputed to make a very tasty
>>>>> sausages.
>>>>
>>>> I imagine they'd be bland and tasteless.
>>>
>>> Why; have you tried them before? If not, then how would you know?
>>>
>>
>> It was an attempt at humour Rupert, lame, I know..
>>
>> While I have your attention, do you know of any good layman's text on
>> randomness? I have been curious about the nature of randomness and it's
>> appearance to the human mind for a long time. I take from own experience
>> playing cards that luck appears to be noticeably clumpy rather than
>> following something that I would perceive as random. For example when
>> playing Rubber Bridge it seems most often the case that one player or
>> team will be dealt good cards more or less continuously over a whole
>> evening more often than the luck swinging back and forth from player to
>> player or team to team. In poker streaks of good and bad luck take place
>> over quite long periods, sometimes months, that seems counter-intuitive
>> to me. Also, in almost every hold'em poker tournament I play in there is
>> one wild player who wins hand after hand after hand despite having the
>> odds against him in almost every case. Despite my belief that
>> superstition should play no role in gambling, I feel like I want to to
>> avoid going against such a player even when the odds are in my favour.
>> So far my only conclusion is that human intuition simply doesn't apply,
>> and randomness is inexplicable.
>
> You rely on your memory. You need to record every card
> over that time. Maybe you do not play your good hands
> as well as others do. Maybe people are cheating.

I have a record of every tournament and can replay every hand. I
occasionally review them. I'm not complaining about my results, they're
pretty good, and I have NO belief that I have more or less luck than
other players. My interest relates to the nature of randomness, aside
from "it has no nature", which seems to be the prevailing view. I don't
disagree with that but in my view anyway, it seems to act
counter-intuitively to what I would expect. Like what would make luck go
by and large against you for weeks or months then in your favor for
weeks? It seems too long. I know there's no logical answer, I just
thought there might be some arcane mathematical theory on it.

In article >, Dutch >
wrote:

> Michael Press wrote:
> > In article >, Dutch >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Rupert wrote:
> >>> On Oct 9, 9:55 pm, Dutch > wrote:
> >>>> George M. Middius wrote:
> >>>>> CheeseHusker dos wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>> I don't the title of this thread - why would anyone want to make
> >>>>>> sausage from vegetarians?
> >>>>
> >>>>> Not speaking from experience, but they're reputed to make a very tasty
> >>>>> sausages.
> >>>>
> >>>> I imagine they'd be bland and tasteless.
> >>>
> >>> Why; have you tried them before? If not, then how would you know?
> >>>
> >>
> >> It was an attempt at humour Rupert, lame, I know..
> >>
> >> While I have your attention, do you know of any good layman's text on
> >> randomness? I have been curious about the nature of randomness and it's
> >> appearance to the human mind for a long time. I take from own experience
> >> playing cards that luck appears to be noticeably clumpy rather than
> >> following something that I would perceive as random. For example when
> >> playing Rubber Bridge it seems most often the case that one player or
> >> team will be dealt good cards more or less continuously over a whole
> >> evening more often than the luck swinging back and forth from player to
> >> player or team to team. In poker streaks of good and bad luck take place
> >> over quite long periods, sometimes months, that seems counter-intuitive
> >> to me. Also, in almost every hold'em poker tournament I play in there is
> >> one wild player who wins hand after hand after hand despite having the
> >> odds against him in almost every case. Despite my belief that
> >> superstition should play no role in gambling, I feel like I want to to
> >> avoid going against such a player even when the odds are in my favour.
> >> So far my only conclusion is that human intuition simply doesn't apply,
> >> and randomness is inexplicable.
> >
> > You rely on your memory. You need to record every card
> > over that time. Maybe you do not play your good hands
> > as well as others do. Maybe people are cheating.
>
> I have a record of every tournament and can replay every hand. I
> occasionally review them. I'm not complaining about my results, they're
> pretty good, and I have NO belief that I have more or less luck than
> other players. My interest relates to the nature of randomness, aside
> from "it has no nature", which seems to be the prevailing view. I don't
> disagree with that but in my view anyway, it seems to act
> counter-intuitively to what I would expect. Like what would make luck go
> by and large against you for weeks or months then in your favor for
> weeks? It seems too long.

That is a subjective judgement.

> I know there's no logical answer, I just
> thought there might be some arcane mathematical theory on it.

Mathematically, random is not defined.
Read _Art of Computer Programming_,
volume 2, section 3.5, "What is a random sequence?"
Donald Knuth [1969].

Also

_The Mathematical Theory of Communication_, Shannon and Weaver [1949].

One heuristic is that a random sequence is one whose
information content cannot be expressed in any more
condensed a manner than the sequence itself.

--
Michael Press

On Oct 10, 6:08*pm, George Plimpton > wrote:
> On 10/10/2012 7:31 AM, Rupert wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 10, 4:27 pm, George Plimpton > wrote:
> >> On 10/10/2012 7:22 AM, Rupert wrote:
>
> >>> On Oct 10, 4:21 pm, George Plimpton > wrote:
> >>>> On 10/10/2012 1:24 AM, Rupert wrote:
>
> >>>>> On Oct 9, 5:43 pm, George Plimpton > wrote:
> >>>>>> On 10/9/2012 8:12 AM, Rupert wrote:
>
> >>>>>>> On Oct 9, 5:03 pm, George Plimpton > wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 10/9/2012 3:34 AM, Rupert wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>> On Oct 8, 7:07 pm, George Plimpton > wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On 10/8/2012 9:37 AM, spamtrap1888 wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 8, 9:01 am, Rupert > wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 8, 5:45 pm, spamtrap1888 > wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 8, 4:50 am, Rupert > wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 21, 8:00 am, George Plimpton > wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/20/2012 3:04 PM, Just.Some.guy wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Check this out Its great
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://youtu.be/1LIyVBWaE_A
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's shit. *It's unpalatable shit.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> How would you be in a position to know?
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are "vegans" continually trying to make stuff look like and taste
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like meat? **Extremely* suspicious.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why?
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Why do you think they call vegan meat Satan?
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't realize they did call it that.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>> They changed the spelling to throw people off the track.:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>http://www.vrg.org/recipes/vjseitan.htm
>
> >>>>>>>>>> Ha ha ha ha ha - good one!
>
> >>>>>>>>> You thought it was a good joke?
>
> >>>>>>>> It was a great joke, especially because you fell for it.
>
> >>>>>>> I don't really understand why you think I fell for it.
>
> >>>>>> Because I saw you fall for it. *You fell right over.
>
> >>>>> I don't understand what you mean. What happened was that I said I
> >>>>> didn't realize that they called vegan meat Satan, which is of course
> >>>>> true. At that stage I didn't realize that he wanted to make a pun on
> >>>>> the names of one of the mock meats, but then he explained himself.
>
> >>>> <chortle>
>
> >>> You don't seem to be willing to explain yourself.
>
> >> What's to explain? *You're a dope, that's all.
>
> > So you obviously believe, but I fail to understand what reasons you
> > think you have in favour of this view.
>
> Ha ha ha! *You just gave yet another reason!

So, Ball, you seem to be trying to sell me this idea that even though
I have a few accomplishments in the field of mathematics, in all other
areas I'm just not that bright. Would that be correct?

On Oct 10, 9:58*pm, dh@. wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 01:24:24 -0700 (PDT), Rupert >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Oct 9, 8:06*pm, dh@. wrote:
> >> On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 09:37:18 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888 >
> >> wrote:
> >> >On Oct 8, 9:01 am, Rupert > wrote:
> >> >> On Oct 8, 5:45 pm, spamtrap1888 > wrote:
> >> >> > On Oct 8, 4:50 am, Rupert > wrote:
>
> >> >> > > On Sep 21, 8:00 am, Goo wrote:
>
> >> >> > > > On 9/20/2012 3:04 PM, Just.Some.guy wrote:
>
> >> >> > > > > Check this out Its great
> >> >> > > > >http://youtu.be/1LIyVBWaE_A
>
> >> >> > > > It's shit. It's unpalatable shit.
>
> >> >> > > How would you be in a position to know?
>
> >> >> > > > Why are "vegans" continually trying to make stuff look like and taste
> >> >> > > > like meat? *Extremely* suspicious.
>
> >> >> > > Why?
>
> >> >> > Why do you think they call vegan meat Satan?
>
> >> >> I didn't realize they did call it that.
>
> >> >They changed the spelling to throw people off the track.:
>
> >> >http://www.vrg.org/recipes/vjseitan.htm
>
> >> * * It almost certainly involves more animal deaths than grass raised beef, and
> >> in some cases grain fed beef. Not as bad as rice based products, but still worse
> >> than grass raised beef if not grain fed as well.
>
> >How do you know?
>
> * * The only way it could not is if there are no wildlife in the area where the
> grain is grown. Of course with rice it's not a question due to the flooding and
> draining in addition to all the machinery and chemical deaths.

I don't really find your remarks convincing. We did an examination of
one estimate for the expected collateral death rate associated with a
serving of tofu in the past, and it turned out to be less than the
corresponding estimate for grass-fed beef.

On Oct 10, 8:42*pm, Dutch > wrote:
> Rupert wrote:
> > On Oct 9, 9:55 pm, Dutch > wrote:
> >> George M. Middius wrote:
> >>> CheeseHusker dos wrote:
>
> >>>> I don't the title of this thread - why would anyone want to make
> >>>> sausage from vegetarians?
>
> >>> Not speaking from experience, but they're reputed to make a very tasty
> >>> sausages.
>
> >> I imagine they'd be bland and tasteless.
>
> > Why; have you tried them before? If not, then how would you know?
>
> It was an attempt at humour Rupert, lame, I know..
>
> While I have your attention, do you know of any good layman's text on
> randomness? I have been curious about the nature of randomness and it's
> appearance to the human mind for a long time. I take from own experience
> playing cards that luck appears to be noticeably clumpy rather than
> following something that I would perceive as random. For example when
> playing Rubber Bridge it seems most often the case that one player or
> team will be dealt good cards more or less continuously over a whole
> evening more often than the luck swinging back and forth from player to
> player or team to team. In poker streaks of good and bad luck take place
> over quite long periods, sometimes months, that seems counter-intuitive
> to me. Also, in almost every hold'em poker tournament I play in there is
> one wild player who wins hand after hand after hand despite having the
> odds against him in almost every case. Despite my belief that
> superstition should play no role in gambling, I feel like I want to to
> avoid going against such a player even when the odds are in my favour.
> So far my only conclusion is that human intuition simply doesn't apply,
> and randomness is inexplicable.

I was having a look on Amazon for you, and I thought that maybe this
one might be worth a look:

http://www.amazon.com/Probability-Th...ability+theory

I haven't read it myself, however. The last textbook on probability
theory that I read was called "Probability Theory With Martingales"
but I would think that it would probably be not all that helpful to
you.

It is quite well-established that humans do tend to have not very good
intuitions about probabilities in all sorts of contexts. Natural
selection just hasn't given us very good intuitions about the subject,
given the kinds of situations our primate ancestors had to deal with.
Here is one interesting example.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_problem

On Oct 10, 8:42*pm, Dutch > wrote:
> Rupert wrote:
> > On Oct 9, 9:55 pm, Dutch > wrote:
> >> George M. Middius wrote:
> >>> CheeseHusker dos wrote:
>
> >>>> I don't the title of this thread - why would anyone want to make
> >>>> sausage from vegetarians?
>
> >>> Not speaking from experience, but they're reputed to make a very tasty
> >>> sausages.
>
> >> I imagine they'd be bland and tasteless.
>
> > Why; have you tried them before? If not, then how would you know?
>
> It was an attempt at humour Rupert, lame, I know..
>
> While I have your attention, do you know of any good layman's text on
> randomness? I have been curious about the nature of randomness and it's
> appearance to the human mind for a long time. I take from own experience
> playing cards that luck appears to be noticeably clumpy rather than
> following something that I would perceive as random. For example when
> playing Rubber Bridge it seems most often the case that one player or
> team will be dealt good cards more or less continuously over a whole
> evening more often than the luck swinging back and forth from player to
> player or team to team. In poker streaks of good and bad luck take place
> over quite long periods, sometimes months, that seems counter-intuitive
> to me. Also, in almost every hold'em poker tournament I play in there is
> one wild player who wins hand after hand after hand despite having the
> odds against him in almost every case. Despite my belief that
> superstition should play no role in gambling, I feel like I want to to
> avoid going against such a player even when the odds are in my favour.
> So far my only conclusion is that human intuition simply doesn't apply,
> and randomness is inexplicable.

Another thing is I once went to a talk at a maths society meeting
about the psychology of problem gamblers, where the person was
discussing evidence that they had an "illusion of control" which led
them to have the false belief that they were moving closer to finding
a strategy for beating the game. Strange coincidences will reinforce
the "illusion of control" and then nothing counteracts it.

On Oct 10, 5:46*pm, "Mr. N.A.Cho" > wrote:
> On Oct 10, 11:44*am, Rupert > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 10, 5:40*pm, "Mr. N.A.Cho" > wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 10, 11:38*am, Rupert > wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 10, 5:33*pm, "The Undead Edward M. Kennedy" > wrote:
>
> > > > > "CheeseHusker dos" > wrote
>
> > > > > > > > > >> Check this out Its great
> > > > > > > > > >>http://youtu.be/1LIyVBWaE_A
>
> > > > > > > > > > It's shit. It's unpalatable shit.
>
> > > > > > > > > > Why are "vegans" continually trying to make stuff look like and taste like meat? *Extremely* suspicious.
>
> > > > > > > > > It's mostly for people who like meat but are trying to eat "healthy".
>
> > > > > > > > > > No one likes "vegan" food - no one.
>
> > > > > > > > > Some actually do, the problem is none of them are healthy..
>
> > > > > > > > This isn't true. Just about everyone enjoys some food which is
> > > > > > > > suitable for vegans. And a significant majority of those people are
> > > > > > > > healthy. Furthermore a significant majority of those who consume an
> > > > > > > > exclusively vegan diet are quite healthy. The American Dietetic
> > > > > > > > Association has endorsed the position that appropriately-planned vegan
> > > > > > > > diets are nutritionally adequate at all stages of life, and carry many
> > > > > > > > significant health benefits.
>
> > > > > > > Yeah, but hamburgers taste so much better.
>
> > > > > > Well, if that's what you reckon then that's fine. I've been vegan for
> > > > > > about 16 years and I definitely remember that I used to enjoy the
> > > > > > taste of meat and I also think that I enjoy my food now about as much
> > > > > > as I used to before I became vegan. And I also believe that by being
> > > > > > vegan I'm reducing my expected contribution to animal suffering..
>
> > > > > > But you may find it unlikely that you would enjoy food and/or you may
> > > > > > not find the consideration about animal suffering to be compelling.
> > > > > > Which is of course your choice, I have no interest in trying to get
> > > > > > you to change your mind.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > <
> > > > > <Why do you enjoy inflicting pain onto vegetables and fruits?
>
> > > > > And the bugs that live on them!!!
>
> > > > > --Tedward
>
> > > > Of course insects die in order to produce my food. Plenty of small
> > > > mammals die as well for that matter, crushed up in the combine
> > > > harvester. I never made any claim that no suffering and premature
> > > > death had to take place in order to produce my food. I am somewhat
> > > > motivated to make some effort to reduce the amount of suffering that
> > > > has to take place in order to produce my food and I have decided to be
> > > > vegan because I think that that's a sensible strategy for achieving
> > > > that goal. Others may have different priorities and as I said I have
> > > > no interest in trying to get them to change their mind.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > Rupert, how do you explain our canine eye teeth? *Are they for ripping
> > > apart carrots? *No, they are for ripping apart animal flesh. *We are
> > > meat eaters. * *To force a child against the very human nature they
> > > are born with is child abuse of a sort. * It's like the disgusting
> > > news stories of parents tatooing thier children becuase the parent
> > > happens to be into tattoos. * It's that same selfish and narrow-minded
> > > idea of forcing adult choices on a child.
>
> > We have canine eye teeth because we have an evolutionary kinship with
> > carnivorous species. We are capable of thriving on both omnivorous and
> > vegetarian diets, like our primate ancestors. I've provided you with
> > the position of the American Dietetic Association, which you can
> > easily find on Google, and the opinions of two doctors with whom I
> > have discussed the matter, both of whom have degrees in medicine and
> > no kind of ideological animal-rights agenda. Also my experiences as a
> > vegan and many vegan friends of mine. There might be some evidence
> > that goes the other way, but you have yet to provide it. It is not
> > child abuse to bring up a child as a vegan; it's perfectly safe for
> > the child and the child can make its own decisions when it gets older.
> > As I say, your opinions are ill-founded prejudices.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> what about social ostracism at school that will undoubtely occur when
> other children realize that your child is different?

So what would your take be on a Muslim family bringing up a child in
their religion, and perhaps requiring her to wear a head covering if
she was a girl? Do you think that they ought to send her to a school
exclusively for Muslim children to reduce the risk of social ostracism?

On Oct 10, 6:42*pm, CheeseHusker dos > wrote:
> On Oct 10, 10:53*am, Rupert > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 10, 5:39*pm, CheeseHusker dos > wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 10, 10:36*am, Rupert > wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 10, 5:32*pm, CheeseHusker dos > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Oct 10, 9:18*am, Rupert > wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Oct 10, 4:09*pm, "J.C. Watts" > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Oct 10, 3:26*am, Rupert > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > On Oct 9, 8:40*pm, "The Undead Edward M. Kennedy" > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > "George Plimpton" > wrote
>
> > > > > > > > > >> Check this out Its great
> > > > > > > > > >>http://youtu.be/1LIyVBWaE_A
>
> > > > > > > > > > It's shit. *It's unpalatable shit.
>
> > > > > > > > > > Why are "vegans" continually trying to make stuff look like and taste like meat? **Extremely* suspicious.
>
> > > > > > > > > It's mostly for people who like meat but are trying to eat "healthy".
>
> > > > > > > > > > No one likes "vegan" food - no one.
>
> > > > > > > > > Some actually do, the problem is none of them are healthy..
>
> > > > > > > > This isn't true. Just about everyone enjoys some food which is
> > > > > > > > suitable for vegans. And a significant majority of those people are
> > > > > > > > healthy. Furthermore a significant majority of those who consume an
> > > > > > > > exclusively vegan diet are quite healthy. The American Dietetic
> > > > > > > > Association has endorsed the position that appropriately-planned vegan
> > > > > > > > diets are nutritionally adequate at all stages of life, and carry many
> > > > > > > > significant health benefits.
>
> > > > > > > Yeah, but hamburgers taste so much better.
>
> > > > > > Well, if that's what you reckon then that's fine. I've been vegan for
> > > > > > about 16 years and I definitely remember that I used to enjoy the
> > > > > > taste of meat and I also think that I enjoy my food now about as much
> > > > > > as I used to before I became vegan. And I also believe that by being
> > > > > > vegan I'm reducing my expected contribution to animal suffering..
>
> > > > > > But you may find it unlikely that you would enjoy food and/or you may
> > > > > > not find the consideration about animal suffering to be compelling.
> > > > > > Which is of course your choice, I have no interest in trying to get
> > > > > > you to change your mind.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > > Why do you enjoy inflicting pain onto vegetables and fruits?
>
> > > > No sensible person believes that vegetables and fruits are capable of
> > > > experiencing pain.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > wrong
>
> > >http://www.guardian.co.uk/notesandqu...-83446,00.html
>
> > The assertion is false. The person does not provide any citations of
> > studies that support his point of view.
>
> And yours are......where? *Oh that's right- made up from hot air
>

When I made the assertion that it was just as easy to have a healthy
vegan diet as to have a healthy omnivorous diet and in fact there are
health benefits to doing so, my evidence was as follows.

First, the stated position of the American Dietetic Association, which
you can easily find on Google. I can find it for you if you really are
too lazy to get it yourself.

Second, the stated opinion of two doctors whom I have consulted about
the subject, both of whom have degrees in medicine and are in no way
committed to any kind of ideological animal-rights agenda.
Specifically, one of them said "It is fantastic that you are eating
vegan".

Third, my own personal experiences as a vegan of 16 years and the
experiences of many other vegans with whom I am acquainted.

That is the evidence that I have provided for that assertion so far. I
have no doubt that with a little effort I could find scientific
studies that further support this assertion. You could probably find
them yourself if you could only be bothered doing a little research,
actually making some effort to educate yourself about what you want to
talk about. Let me know if you want me to try to find some scientific
studies on the issue of the health pros and cons of a vegan diet and I
will see what I can find.

If on the other hand it is some other assertion you have in mind that
you want me to defend with citations to scientific studies, then maybe
you could just let me know which one.

> > > At least when I eat cheese, I'm not killing the cow.
>
> > Not directly, no, but you are giving financial incentives to an
> > industry which inflicts considerable suffering and premature death on
> > a large number of cows.
>
> Wow - and now you toss organic farmers under the bus too. *Nice.
>

I don't understand what point you are trying to make. My assertion
that the dairy industry inflicts considerable suffering and premature
death on a large number of cows was factual, and I provided a link to
supporting evidence. I didn't make any remark about organic farmers.
If you are trying to suggest that the welfare issues in that context
are different, that may very well be, I'd have to look further into
the matter. That doesn't mean that it wasn't reasonable to make the
statement I made about the dairy industry as a whole. I gave you a
link to information about the practices and welfare issues that occur
on the vast majority of dairy farms.

> > > What's it feel like to be a mass murderer and a major contributer to
> > > global warming? *Why do you hate the earth?
>
> > I have no idea what you are babbling on about. By becoming a vegan I
> > have reduced my contribution to global warming, this is a well-
> > established fact.
>
> Plants use CO2 - in case you didn't know. *You eat plants. *Therefore
> you are helping to increase the amount of CO2 in the air.
>
> Nice.

You really should make some effort to learn the basics of what you are
talking about.

In order to produce an omnivorous diet, more plants need to be grown
than is the case for a vegan diet. Plant stuff needs to be grown and
fed to the livestock, and it takes more plant stuff to produce an
equivalent quantity of animal protein than to produce the equivalent
quantity of plant protein. By being vegan I am reducing the amount of
crop production that needs to take place in order to produce my food.
By a factor of about ten, as a matter of fact.

It is not disputed by any well-informed person that being vegan
reduces your contribution to global warming. Just try to find a carbon
footprint calculator on Google. It will ask you "Are you vegan" and if
you say yes your estimated carbon footprint will be lower. It is an
accepted fact that being a vegan entails a substantial reduction in
your carbon footprint.

On Oct 10, 8:38*pm, spamtrap1888 > wrote:
> On Oct 10, 8:36*am, Rupert > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 10, 5:32*pm, CheeseHusker dos > wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 10, 9:18*am, Rupert > wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 10, 4:09*pm, "J.C. Watts" > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Oct 10, 3:26*am, Rupert > wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Oct 9, 8:40*pm, "The Undead Edward M. Kennedy" > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > "George Plimpton" > wrote
>
> > > > > > > >> Check this out Its great
> > > > > > > >>http://youtu.be/1LIyVBWaE_A
>
> > > > > > > > It's shit. *It's unpalatable shit.
>
> > > > > > > > Why are "vegans" continually trying to make stuff look like and taste like meat? **Extremely* suspicious.
>
> > > > > > > It's mostly for people who like meat but are trying to eat "healthy".
>
> > > > > > > > No one likes "vegan" food - no one.
>
> > > > > > > Some actually do, the problem is none of them are healthy.
>
> > > > > > This isn't true. Just about everyone enjoys some food which is
> > > > > > suitable for vegans. And a significant majority of those people are
> > > > > > healthy. Furthermore a significant majority of those who consume an
> > > > > > exclusively vegan diet are quite healthy. The American Dietetic
> > > > > > Association has endorsed the position that appropriately-planned vegan
> > > > > > diets are nutritionally adequate at all stages of life, and carry many
> > > > > > significant health benefits.
>
> > > > > Yeah, but hamburgers taste so much better.
>
> > > > Well, if that's what you reckon then that's fine. I've been vegan for
> > > > about 16 years and I definitely remember that I used to enjoy the
> > > > taste of meat and I also think that I enjoy my food now about as much
> > > > as I used to before I became vegan. And I also believe that by being
> > > > vegan I'm reducing my expected contribution to animal suffering.
>
> > > > But you may find it unlikely that you would enjoy food and/or you may
> > > > not find the consideration about animal suffering to be compelling.
> > > > Which is of course your choice, I have no interest in trying to get
> > > > you to change your mind.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > Why do you enjoy inflicting pain onto vegetables and fruits?
>
> > No sensible person believes that vegetables and fruits are capable of
> > experiencing pain.
>
> The only ethical diet is fruit-only. If you eat a carrot, or broccoli,
> or cauliflower, that plant's life is over, and you are a premeditated
> murderer. But you can pick apples, or peaches, or even beans, peppers,
> and tomatoes, without killing the plant.

If that is your sincerely held opinion then you are entitled to it. I
am not convinced because I am not aware of any good evidence that
plants are capable of conscious experience.

On Oct 10, 6:39*pm, "J.C. Watts" > wrote:
> On Oct 10, 9:18*am, Rupert > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 10, 4:09*pm, "J.C. Watts" > wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 10, 3:26*am, Rupert > wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 9, 8:40*pm, "The Undead Edward M. Kennedy" > wrote:
>
> > > > > "George Plimpton" > wrote
>
> > > > > >> Check this out Its great
> > > > > >>http://youtu.be/1LIyVBWaE_A
>
> > > > > > It's shit. *It's unpalatable shit.
>
> > > > > > Why are "vegans" continually trying to make stuff look like and taste like meat? **Extremely* suspicious.
>
> > > > > It's mostly for people who like meat but are trying to eat "healthy".
>
> > > > > > No one likes "vegan" food - no one.
>
> > > > > Some actually do, the problem is none of them are healthy.
>
> > > > This isn't true. Just about everyone enjoys some food which is
> > > > suitable for vegans. And a significant majority of those people are
> > > > healthy. Furthermore a significant majority of those who consume an
> > > > exclusively vegan diet are quite healthy. The American Dietetic
> > > > Association has endorsed the position that appropriately-planned vegan
> > > > diets are nutritionally adequate at all stages of life, and carry many
> > > > significant health benefits.
>
> > > Yeah, but hamburgers taste so much better.
>
> > Well, if that's what you reckon then that's fine. I've been vegan for
> > about 16 years and I definitely remember that I used to enjoy the
> > taste of meat and I also think that I enjoy my food now about as much
> > as I used to before I became vegan. And I also believe that by being
> > vegan I'm reducing my expected contribution to animal suffering.
>
> > But you may find it unlikely that you would enjoy food and/or you may
> > not find the consideration about animal suffering to be compelling.
> > Which is of course your choice, I have no interest in trying to get
> > you to change your mind.
>
> Yeah, I get all upset about animal "suffering"....
>
> ....until I eat one.
>
> Damn are they tasty.

Well, I definitely agree that you're on solid ground on that point. My
memory of what animal flesh tastes like is not great, but I will
gladly agree that I found it tasty. However, I also find that I enjoy
my food now about as much as I used to before I became vegan, and I
think that most people overestimate how much of a sacrifice it is.

On 10/11/2012 12:40 AM, Rupert wrote:
> On Oct 10, 6:08 pm, George Plimpton > wrote:
>> On 10/10/2012 7:31 AM, Rupert wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Oct 10, 4:27 pm, George Plimpton > wrote:
>>>> On 10/10/2012 7:22 AM, Rupert wrote:
>>
>>>>> On Oct 10, 4:21 pm, George Plimpton > wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/10/2012 1:24 AM, Rupert wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 9, 5:43 pm, George Plimpton > wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 10/9/2012 8:12 AM, Rupert wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>> On Oct 9, 5:03 pm, George Plimpton > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 10/9/2012 3:34 AM, Rupert wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 8, 7:07 pm, George Plimpton > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/8/2012 9:37 AM, spamtrap1888 wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 8, 9:01 am, Rupert > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 8, 5:45 pm, spamtrap1888 > wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 8, 4:50 am, Rupert > wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 21, 8:00 am, George Plimpton > wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/20/2012 3:04 PM, Just.Some.guy wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Check this out Its great
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://youtu.be/1LIyVBWaE_A
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's shit. It's unpalatable shit.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How would you be in a position to know?
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are "vegans" continually trying to make stuff look like and taste
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like meat? *Extremely* suspicious.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why?
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why do you think they call vegan meat Satan?
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't realize they did call it that.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> They changed the spelling to throw people off the track.:
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vrg.org/recipes/vjseitan.htm
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha ha ha ha ha - good one!
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You thought it was a good joke?
>>
>>>>>>>>>> It was a great joke, especially because you fell for it.
>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't really understand why you think I fell for it.
>>
>>>>>>>> Because I saw you fall for it. You fell right over.
>>
>>>>>>> I don't understand what you mean. What happened was that I said I
>>>>>>> didn't realize that they called vegan meat Satan, which is of course
>>>>>>> true. At that stage I didn't realize that he wanted to make a pun on
>>>>>>> the names of one of the mock meats, but then he explained himself.
>>
>>>>>> <chortle>
>>
>>>>> You don't seem to be willing to explain yourself.
>>
>>>> What's to explain? You're a dope, that's all.
>>
>>> So you obviously believe, but I fail to understand what reasons you
>>> think you have in favour of this view.
>>
>> Ha ha ha! You just gave yet another reason!
>
> So, Ball, you seem to be trying to sell me this idea that even though
> I have a few accomplishments in the field of mathematics, in all other
> areas I'm just not that bright. Would that be correct?

It's more that you choose to be a dope, much as ****wit David Harrison
chooses to be stupid.

On Oct 10, 10:06*pm, dh@. wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 07:18:10 -0700 (PDT), Rupert >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Oct 10, 4:09 pm, "J.C. Watts" > wrote:
> >> On Oct 10, 3:26 am, Rupert > wrote:
>
> >> > On Oct 9, 8:40 pm, "The Undead Edward M. Kennedy" > wrote:
>
> >> > > "George Plimpton" > wrote
>
> >> > > >> Check this out Its great
> >> > > >>http://youtu.be/1LIyVBWaE_A
>
> >> > > > It's shit. It's unpalatable shit.
>
> >> > > > Why are "vegans" continually trying to make stuff look like and taste like meat? *Extremely* suspicious.
>
> >> > > It's mostly for people who like meat but are trying to eat "healthy".
>
> >> > > > No one likes "vegan" food - no one.
>
> >> > > Some actually do, the problem is none of them are healthy.
>
> >> > This isn't true. Just about everyone enjoys some food which is
> >> > suitable for vegans. And a significant majority of those people are
> >> > healthy. Furthermore a significant majority of those who consume an
> >> > exclusively vegan diet are quite healthy. The American Dietetic
> >> > Association has endorsed the position that appropriately-planned vegan
> >> > diets are nutritionally adequate at all stages of life, and carry many
> >> > significant health benefits.
>
> >> Yeah, but hamburgers taste so much better.
>
> >Well, if that's what you reckon then that's fine. I've been vegan for
> >about 16 years and I definitely remember that I used to enjoy the
> >taste of meat
>
> * * Then why didn't you begin contributing to decent lives for cattle by buying
> grass raise beef and dairy products instead of not contributing to anything
> other than the deaths of wildlife?
>

Let's be clear about what you think the upside would be. You think
that I would be increasing the expected number of cows who come into
existence and lead fairly happy lives, as well as reducing my
contribution to collateral deaths caused by plant-based agriculture,
and that would be a good thing? Is that the story?

> >and I also think that I enjoy my food now about as much
> >as I used to before I became vegan. And I also believe that by being
> >vegan I'm reducing my expected contribution to animal suffering.
>
> * * It depends how a person does it. I feel certain there are vegans who buy
> rice milk when even regular cow milk almost certainly involves fewer deaths, and
> grass raised dairy undoubtedly does.
>

Well, how did you come to that conclusion; do you have any kind of
estimate available for how many premature deaths are required to
produce one serving of rice milk?

> >But you may find it unlikely that you would enjoy food and/or you may
> >not find the consideration about animal suffering to be compelling.
> >Which is of course your choice, I have no interest in trying to get
> >you to change your mind.
>
> * * I told a guy about the difference between cage free and battery farmed eggs
> and he started buying cage free. So he's doing something while veganism does
> nothing.

This assertion strikes me as irrational. Moving from battery-farmed
eggs to cage-free eggs is of course an improvement, and moving to no
eggs at all is at least as much of an improvement.

> Vegans help livestock like dead people help livestock, while at the
> same time still contributing to the deaths of wildlife that most people do.

The belief is that most animals living on modern farms have lives
which contain a lot of suffering, and the motivation is to reduce the
number of animals who are brought into existence in order to lead such
lives. Veganism sounds like one pretty rational strategy for achieving
this goal. But perhaps you think that there is something wrong with
the goal?

On Oct 11, 10:12*am, George Plimpton > wrote:
> On 10/11/2012 12:40 AM, Rupert wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 10, 6:08 pm, George Plimpton > wrote:
> >> On 10/10/2012 7:31 AM, Rupert wrote:
>
> >>> On Oct 10, 4:27 pm, George Plimpton > wrote:
> >>>> On 10/10/2012 7:22 AM, Rupert wrote:
>
> >>>>> On Oct 10, 4:21 pm, George Plimpton > wrote:
> >>>>>> On 10/10/2012 1:24 AM, Rupert wrote:
>
> >>>>>>> On Oct 9, 5:43 pm, George Plimpton > wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 10/9/2012 8:12 AM, Rupert wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>> On Oct 9, 5:03 pm, George Plimpton > wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On 10/9/2012 3:34 AM, Rupert wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 8, 7:07 pm, George Plimpton > wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/8/2012 9:37 AM, spamtrap1888 wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 8, 9:01 am, Rupert > wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 8, 5:45 pm, spamtrap1888 > wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 8, 4:50 am, Rupert > wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 21, 8:00 am, George Plimpton > wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/20/2012 3:04 PM, Just.Some.guy wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Check this out Its great
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://youtu.be/1LIyVBWaE_A
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's shit. *It's unpalatable shit.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How would you be in a position to know?
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are "vegans" continually trying to make stuff look like and taste
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like meat? **Extremely* suspicious.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why?
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why do you think they call vegan meat Satan?
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't realize they did call it that.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> They changed the spelling to throw people off the track.:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.vrg.org/recipes/vjseitan.htm
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Ha ha ha ha ha - good one!
>
> >>>>>>>>>>> You thought it was a good joke?
>
> >>>>>>>>>> It was a great joke, especially because you fell for it.
>
> >>>>>>>>> I don't really understand why you think I fell for it.
>
> >>>>>>>> Because I saw you fall for it. *You fell right over.
>
> >>>>>>> I don't understand what you mean. What happened was that I said I
> >>>>>>> didn't realize that they called vegan meat Satan, which is of course
> >>>>>>> true. At that stage I didn't realize that he wanted to make a pun on
> >>>>>>> the names of one of the mock meats, but then he explained himself..
>
> >>>>>> <chortle>
>
> >>>>> You don't seem to be willing to explain yourself.
>
> >>>> What's to explain? *You're a dope, that's all.
>
> >>> So you obviously believe, but I fail to understand what reasons you
> >>> think you have in favour of this view.
>
> >> Ha ha ha! *You just gave yet another reason!
>
> > So, Ball, you seem to be trying to sell me this idea that even though
> > I have a few accomplishments in the field of mathematics, in all other
> > areas I'm just not that bright. Would that be correct?
>
> It's more that you choose to be a dope, much as ****wit David Harrison
> chooses to be stupid.

I see.

On Oct 10, 9:56*pm, dh@. wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 07:33:24 -0700 (PDT), Rupert >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Oct 10, 4:28*pm, "The Undead Edward M. Kennedy" > wrote:
> >> "Rupert" > wrote
>
> >> > >> Check this out Its great
> >> > >>http://youtu.be/1LIyVBWaE_A
>
> >> > > It's shit. It's unpalatable shit.
>
> >> > > Why are "vegans" continually trying to make stuff look like and taste like meat? *Extremely* suspicious.
>
> >> > It's mostly for people who like meat but are trying to eat "healthy"..
>
> >> > > No one likes "vegan" food - no one.
>
> >> > Some actually do, the problem is none of them are healthy.
>
> >> This isn't true. Just about everyone enjoys some food which is
> >> suitable for vegans. And a significant majority of those people are
> >> healthy. Furthermore a significant majority of those who consume an
> >> exclusively vegan diet are quite healthy. The American Dietetic
> >> Association has endorsed the position that appropriately-planned vegan
> >> diets are nutritionally adequate at all stages of life, and carry many
> >> significant health benefits.
>
> >> -----
>
> >> I was talking about vegans. *While technically you and the ADD are
> >> correct, it's like claiming unicorn farts are part of your diet. *Show
> >> me the vegan who can appropriate plan a diet at all stages of life,
> >> and I'll show you a unicorn because people need meat and dairy.
>
> >I know plenty of vegans who have well-planned diets and are perfectly
> >healthy, and at least two doctors have told me that it is a very good
> >thing that I am vegan.
>
> * * Why would a doctor tell you it's good you're a vegan?
>

Presumably because they believed it to be the case.

> >It is just as easy to sensibly plan a vegan
> >diet as an omnivorous one. Your opinions about vegans are just not
> >especially well-informed; you don't really know what you're talking
> >about.
>
> * * You don't contribute to any decent lives for livestock, but only to the
> deaths of wildlife. Hopefully he knows that much at least.

I have taken steps to reduce my contribution to the amount of
suffering that takes place. I don't see any good reason to think that
the strategy I've chosen is a poor one.

On Oct 10, 5:47*pm, "The Undead Edward M. Kennedy" > wrote:
> "Rupert" > wrote
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > > > > >> Check this out Its great
> > > > > > > >>http://youtu.be/1LIyVBWaE_A
>
> > > > > > > > It's shit. It's unpalatable shit.
>
> > > > > > > > Why are "vegans" continually trying to make stuff look like and taste like meat? *Extremely* suspicious.
>
> > > > > > > It's mostly for people who like meat but are trying to eat "healthy".
>
> > > > > > > > No one likes "vegan" food - no one.
>
> > > > > > > Some actually do, the problem is none of them are healthy.
>
> > > > > > This isn't true. Just about everyone enjoys some food which is
> > > > > > suitable for vegans. And a significant majority of those people are
> > > > > > healthy. Furthermore a significant majority of those who consume an
> > > > > > exclusively vegan diet are quite healthy. The American Dietetic
> > > > > > Association has endorsed the position that appropriately-planned vegan
> > > > > > diets are nutritionally adequate at all stages of life, and carry many
> > > > > > significant health benefits.
>
> > > > > > -----
>
> > > > > > I was talking about vegans. While technically you and the ADD are
> > > > > > correct, it's like claiming unicorn farts are part of your diet.. Show
> > > > > > me the vegan who can appropriate plan a diet at all stages of life,
> > > > > > and I'll show you a unicorn because people need meat and dairy.
>
> > > > > > --Tedward
>
> > > > > You're an idiot.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > <
> > > > <I'd like to see the type of person that's a cradle to grave vegan.
>
> > > > The kid would break his hip taking the first step...
>
> > > > --Tedward
>
> > > Two friends of mine have been bringing up their children as vegan
> > > since birth (with the possible exception of breast milk, I am not
> > > sure). The children are perfectly well. One of them is about seven
> > > years old, I think.
>
> > > -----
>
> > > "exception of breast milk" indeed. A is A. Not A is not A.
>
> > > You got two imaginary friends and Mr. Cho provided an actual picture.
>
> > > --Tedward
>
> > They are not imaginary friends. The fact that I don't have photos of
> > them to hand is irrelevant; photos would prove nothing. An image of an
> > anorexic person has no bearing on the issue.
>
> > Your opinions are ignorant prejudices; you don't have any idea of what
> > you're talking about. If you did you would provide some real evidence.
>
> > -----
>
> > Now you're resorting to Ad Hominid attacks, a sure sign you've lost
> > the argument.
>
> It's not an ad hominem argument. I am not basing my counter-argument
> on the assertion that your opinions are ignorant prejudices, I have
> given you plenty of good evidence to support my claims. The assertion
> that your opinions are ignorant prejudices is just a factual
> observation which I choose to put in there as well. It is quite
> obviously true because you have shown yourself to be incapable of
> producing any evidence to support your ill-founded beliefs.
>
> If you insist on remaining ignorant then it's no skin off my nose; I
> really couldn't care less.
>
> -----
>
> Evidence? *We've provided a ton.

Actually, none whatsoever.

>*You admit backhandedly that
> children need milk. *We have canines. *We've all seen sickly looking
> vegans (who BTW overlap with goths heavily).
>

No, children don't need milk, but giving them breast milk in infancy
is probably not such a bad idea. If you fed them with soy formula
instead it wouldn't be the end of the world, but breast milk is
probably an improvement. It is quite possible for children to be
perfectly happy and healthy without consuming any milk.

The shape of our teeth is neither here nor there.

I haven't seen any sickly looking vegans, and I know quite a few. You
claim that you've seen some. So what exactly do you suppose that
proves? I know someone who's seriously obese, it's probably safe to
say he's not a vegan. So what? Your claim to have provided evidence
for anything really is a bit of a joke.

> You sit on an arbitrary line of how much cruelty to animals is acceptable
> like some hoighty-toighty professor in an Ivory tower spewing BS that
> the real world doesn't care about.
>

If you don't care, then you have the option of not participating in
the conversation. I never suggested that there was any good reason why
you should care. I made an attempt to correct your misconceptions
about a vegan diet not being healthy because I thought you might
appreciate the opportunity to become better-informed about the world
you live in. I ended up making some remarks trying to clarify what my
own motivations are for being vegan for some reason or other, maybe
because someone asked me, or maybe in order to correct someone's
misconception, I can't remember. If you don't care then that's fine, I
don't especially care about your ill-informed opinions either. Why not
find something more productive to do with your spare time?

On Oct 10, 5:53*pm, "Mr. N.A.Cho" > wrote:
> On Oct 10, 11:47*am, "The Undead Edward M. Kennedy" >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Rupert" > wrote
>
> > > > > > > > >> Check this out Its great
> > > > > > > > >>http://youtu.be/1LIyVBWaE_A
>
> > > > > > > > > It's shit. It's unpalatable shit.
>
> > > > > > > > > Why are "vegans" continually trying to make stuff look like and taste like meat? *Extremely* suspicious.
>
> > > > > > > > It's mostly for people who like meat but are trying to eat "healthy".
>
> > > > > > > > > No one likes "vegan" food - no one.
>
> > > > > > > > Some actually do, the problem is none of them are healthy.
>
> > > > > > > This isn't true. Just about everyone enjoys some food which is
> > > > > > > suitable for vegans. And a significant majority of those people are
> > > > > > > healthy. Furthermore a significant majority of those who consume an
> > > > > > > exclusively vegan diet are quite healthy. The American Dietetic
> > > > > > > Association has endorsed the position that appropriately-planned vegan
> > > > > > > diets are nutritionally adequate at all stages of life, and carry many
> > > > > > > significant health benefits.
>
> > > > > > > -----
>
> > > > > > > I was talking about vegans. While technically you and the ADD are
> > > > > > > correct, it's like claiming unicorn farts are part of your diet. Show
> > > > > > > me the vegan who can appropriate plan a diet at all stages of life,
> > > > > > > and I'll show you a unicorn because people need meat and dairy.
>
> > > > > > > --Tedward
>
> > > > > > You're an idiot.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > <
> > > > > <I'd like to see the type of person that's a cradle to grave vegan.

"Michael Press" > wrote

>> >>>>>> I don't the title of this thread - why would anyone want to make
>> >>>>>> sausage from vegetarians?
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Not speaking from experience, but they're reputed to make a very tasty
>> >>>>> sausages.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I imagine they'd be bland and tasteless.
>> >>>
>> >>> Why; have you tried them before? If not, then how would you know?
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> It was an attempt at humour Rupert, lame, I know..
>> >>
>> >> While I have your attention, do you know of any good layman's text on
>> >> randomness? I have been curious about the nature of randomness and it's
>> >> appearance to the human mind for a long time. I take from own experience
>> >> playing cards that luck appears to be noticeably clumpy rather than
>> >> following something that I would perceive as random. For example when
>> >> playing Rubber Bridge it seems most often the case that one player or
>> >> team will be dealt good cards more or less continuously over a whole
>> >> evening more often than the luck swinging back and forth from player to
>> >> player or team to team. In poker streaks of good and bad luck take place
>> >> over quite long periods, sometimes months, that seems counter-intuitive
>> >> to me. Also, in almost every hold'em poker tournament I play in there is
>> >> one wild player who wins hand after hand after hand despite having the
>> >> odds against him in almost every case. Despite my belief that
>> >> superstition should play no role in gambling, I feel like I want to to
>> >> avoid going against such a player even when the odds are in my favour.
>> >> So far my only conclusion is that human intuition simply doesn't apply,
>> >> and randomness is inexplicable.
>> >
>> > You rely on your memory. You need to record every card
>> > over that time. Maybe you do not play your good hands
>> > as well as others do. Maybe people are cheating.
>>
>> I have a record of every tournament and can replay every hand. I
>> occasionally review them. I'm not complaining about my results, they're
>> pretty good, and I have NO belief that I have more or less luck than
>> other players. My interest relates to the nature of randomness, aside
>> from "it has no nature", which seems to be the prevailing view. I don't
>> disagree with that but in my view anyway, it seems to act
>> counter-intuitively to what I would expect. Like what would make luck go
>> by and large against you for weeks or months then in your favor for
>> weeks? It seems too long.
>
> That is a subjective judgement.
>
>> I know there's no logical answer, I just
>> thought there might be some arcane mathematical theory on it.
>
> Mathematically, random is not defined.
> Read _Art of Computer Programming_,
> volume 2, section 3.5, "What is a random sequence?"
> Donald Knuth [1969].
>
> Also
>
> _The Mathematical Theory of Communication_, Shannon and Weaver [1949].
>
> One heuristic is that a random sequence is one whose
> information content cannot be expressed in any more
> condensed a manner than the sequence itself.

Radioactive decay says hi. Depending on how you measure it, you
either have a perfect random number generator, or the most predictable
thing there is.

--Tedward

"Rupert" > wrote

<You are aware of the existence of quite a few vegans who are world-
<class athletes, right? Or not?

Well, now all you have to do is list all the "word class athletes" and
the miniscule percentagae who are vegans. Then you get to list the
comprehensive figures of who is vegan, who is not, and why vegans
are a proper perecentage of "world class athletes".

It's your assertion. Good luck with that.

--Tedward

On 10/11/2012 1:16 AM, Rupert wrote:
> On Oct 11, 10:12 am, George Plimpton > wrote:
>> On 10/11/2012 12:40 AM, Rupert wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Oct 10, 6:08 pm, George Plimpton > wrote:
>>>> On 10/10/2012 7:31 AM, Rupert wrote:
>>
>>>>> On Oct 10, 4:27 pm, George Plimpton > wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/10/2012 7:22 AM, Rupert wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 10, 4:21 pm, George Plimpton > wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 10/10/2012 1:24 AM, Rupert wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>> On Oct 9, 5:43 pm, George Plimpton > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 10/9/2012 8:12 AM, Rupert wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 9, 5:03 pm, George Plimpton > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/9/2012 3:34 AM, Rupert wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 8, 7:07 pm, George Plimpton > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/8/2012 9:37 AM, spamtrap1888 wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 8, 9:01 am, Rupert > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 8, 5:45 pm, spamtrap1888 > wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 8, 4:50 am, Rupert > wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 21, 8:00 am, George Plimpton > wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/20/2012 3:04 PM, Just.Some.guy wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Check this out Its great
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://youtu.be/1LIyVBWaE_A
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's shit. It's unpalatable shit.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How would you be in a position to know?
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are "vegans" continually trying to make stuff look like and taste
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like meat? *Extremely* suspicious.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why?
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why do you think they call vegan meat Satan?
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't realize they did call it that.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They changed the spelling to throw people off the track.:
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vrg.org/recipes/vjseitan.htm
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha ha ha ha ha - good one!
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You thought it was a good joke?
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It was a great joke, especially because you fell for it.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't really understand why you think I fell for it.
>>
>>>>>>>>>> Because I saw you fall for it. You fell right over.
>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't understand what you mean. What happened was that I said I
>>>>>>>>> didn't realize that they called vegan meat Satan, which is of course
>>>>>>>>> true. At that stage I didn't realize that he wanted to make a pun on
>>>>>>>>> the names of one of the mock meats, but then he explained himself.
>>
>>>>>>>> <chortle>
>>
>>>>>>> You don't seem to be willing to explain yourself.
>>
>>>>>> What's to explain? You're a dope, that's all.
>>
>>>>> So you obviously believe, but I fail to understand what reasons you
>>>>> think you have in favour of this view.
>>
>>>> Ha ha ha! You just gave yet another reason!
>>
>>> So, Ball, you seem to be trying to sell me this idea that even though
>>> I have a few accomplishments in the field of mathematics, in all other
>>> areas I'm just not that bright. Would that be correct?
>>
>> It's more that you choose to be a dope, much as ****wit David Harrison
>> chooses to be stupid.
>
> I see.

Probably not, but it was worth a try.

On 10/10/2012 12:56 PM, dh@. wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 07:33:24 -0700 (PDT), Rupert >
> wrote:
>
>> It is just as easy to sensibly plan a vegan
>> diet as an omnivorous one. Your opinions about vegans are just not
>> especially well-informed; you don't really know what you're talking
>> about.
>
> You don't contribute to any decent lives for livestock,

Meaningless. He's not doing anything wrong or unethical thereby.

On 10/10/2012 12:56 PM, dh@. wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 07:33:24 -0700 (PDT), Rupert >
> wrote:
>
>> It is just as easy to sensibly plan a vegan
>> diet as an omnivorous one. Your opinions about vegans are just not
>> especially well-informed; you don't really know what you're talking
>> about.
>
> You don't contribute to any decent lives for livestock,

Neither do you:

It's not out of consideration for porcupines
that we don't raise them for food. It's because
they would be a pain in the ass to raise. We
don't raise cattle out of consideration for them
either, but because they're fairly easy to
raise.
Goo/****wit David Harrison - Sep 26, 2005

I am not an extremist about it, and if I thought
that all of the animals I eat had terrible
lives, I would still eat meat. That is not
because I don't care about them at all, but I
would just ignore their suffering.
Goo/****wit David Harrison - Nov 29, 1999

I would eat animals even if I thought that it was
cruel to them, and even if they gained nothing from
the deal. Is that what you want me to say? It is true.
But that doesn't mean that I can't still like the animals
also....
Goo/****wit David Harrison - Sept 23, 1999

I don't try to eat ethically, because I don't really care enough
to make the effort.
Goo/****wit David Harrison - July 31, 2003