Vegan (alt.food.vegan) This newsgroup exists to share ideas and issues of concern among vegans. We are always happy to share our recipes- perhaps especially with omnivores who are simply curious- or even better, accomodating a vegan guest for a meal!

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Old 27-12-2011, 01:40 AM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan
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Default How cruel is leather?

On Sun, 25 Dec 2011 14:51:52 -0800, "Dutch" wrote:

"Jahbulon" wrote
"Dutch" wrote in :

Abstaining from the use of leather is largely symbolic,
the alternatives are not necessarily any better.


Thank you. What do you recommend?


Leather works better and lasts longer than anything else, is a natural
product, so from environmental and utilitarian points of view it is hard to
beat.


It's a byproduct so you should reassure him that no additional livestock
animals live and die because of leather, or pet food. Unless you want to now try
to pretend there are...LOL...livestock raised only to become leather like you
want people to believe there are for pet food.

Suicide is the end point of Jainism,
isn't it?


I don't know, life is about compromises. In any case I would not base my
decisions on simplistic notions like "veganism".


You used to and of course my guess is you still do to whatever extent, since
you do so much that ONLY eliminationists have any decent reason to do.

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Old 27-12-2011, 09:58 AM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan
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Default How cruel is leather?

[email protected] wrote in :

It's a byproduct so you should reassure him that no additional
livestock animals live and die because of leather,
or pet food.


Does leather only come from cows and do they take it off cattle while the
animals are alive?

--
Praise be to Jahbulon, holy god of Royal Arch Freemasons
http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/jahbulon.html

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you,
then they fight you, then you win"
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Old 27-12-2011, 03:01 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan
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Default How cruel is leather?

On 12/26/2011 5:40 PM, [email protected] wrote:
On Sun, 25 Dec 2011 14:51:52 -0800, wrote:

wrote
wrote in :

Abstaining from the use of leather is largely symbolic,
the alternatives are not necessarily any better.

Thank you. What do you recommend?


Leather works better and lasts longer than anything else, is a natural
product, so from environmental and utilitarian points of view it is hard to
beat.


It's a byproduct so you should reassure him that no additional livestock
animals live and die because of leather, or pet food.


That's false, of course. Additional livestock animals do live because
of the demand for so-called "by-products". Everyone knows that.
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Old 27-12-2011, 03:02 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan
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Default How cruel is leather?

On 12/27/2011 1:58 AM, Jahbulon wrote:
[email protected] wrote in :

It's a byproduct so you should reassure him that no additional
livestock animals live and die because of leather,
or pet food.


Does leather only come from cows


No.


and do they take it off cattle while the
animals are alive?


This simply is not a serious question.
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Old 27-12-2011, 04:39 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan
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Default How cruel is leather?

On Dec 27, 4:02*pm, George Plimpton wrote:
On 12/27/2011 1:58 AM, Jahbulon wrote:

[email protected] wrote :


It's a byproduct so you should reassure him that no additional
livestock *animals live and die because of leather,
or pet food.


Does leather only come from cows


No.

and do they take it off cattle while the
animals are alive?


This simply is not a serious question.


Why don't you just tell him: No, they don't.


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Old 27-12-2011, 05:21 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan
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Default How cruel is leather?

On 12/27/2011 8:39 AM, Rupert wrote:
On Dec 27, 4:02 pm, George wrote:
On 12/27/2011 1:58 AM, Jahbulon wrote:

[email protected] wrote :


It's a byproduct so you should reassure him that no additional
livestock animals live and die because of leather,
or pet food.


Does leather only come from cows


No.

and do they take it off cattle while the
animals are alive?


This simply is not a serious question.


Why don't you just tell him: No, they don't.


I'm not willing to feed someone's stupidity and naiveté to the extent
you are.
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Old 27-12-2011, 05:38 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan
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Default How cruel is leather?

On Dec 27, 6:21*pm, George Plimpton wrote:
On 12/27/2011 8:39 AM, Rupert wrote:









On Dec 27, 4:02 pm, George *wrote:
On 12/27/2011 1:58 AM, Jahbulon wrote:


[email protected] wrote :


It's a byproduct so you should reassure him that no additional
livestock *animals live and die because of leather,
or pet food.


Does leather only come from cows


No.


and do they take it off cattle while the
animals are alive?


This simply is not a serious question.


Why don't you just tell him: No, they don't.


I'm not willing to feed someone's stupidity and naiveté to the extent
you are.


What does it mean to "feed someone's stupidity and naiveté"?

You would be remedying his naiveté, wouldn't you?
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Old 27-12-2011, 07:38 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan
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Default How cruel is leather?

George Plimpton wrote in news:O-
:

Does leather only come from cows


No.


From which other animals is leather harvested?

and do they take it off cattle
while the animals are alive?


This simply is not a serious question.


Yes it is. I hear they still boil lobsters alive.

--
Praise be to Jahbulon, holy god of Royal Arch Freemasons
http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/jahbulon.html

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you,
then they fight you, then you win"
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Old 27-12-2011, 07:39 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan
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Default How cruel is leather?

Rupert wrote in news:c64691a5-1b18-47ac-9e91-
:

and do they take it off cattle
while the animals are alive?


This simply is not a serious question.


Why don't you just tell him:
No, they don't.


Thank you for answering my question.

--
Praise be to Jahbulon, holy god of Royal Arch Freemasons
http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/jahbulon.html

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you,
then they fight you, then you win"
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Old 27-12-2011, 11:08 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan
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Default How cruel is leather?

George Plimpton wrote in
:

From which other animals is leather harvested?


Are you incapable of keying the word "leather" into a search engine and


I wanted an answer dealing with group issues, posted to
alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian.

No, it isn't. No one who writes in (more or less)
grammatically correct English as you do can exhibit
such utter ignorance of livestock husbandry and the
products obtained from livestock.


You would - I hope - be amazed at how crap some people's educations can be.
My school was adjacent to a cattle farm, but I have no idea what happens to
them apart from what I've seen on television. One of my former teachers is
currently serving 21 years for child abuse.

I hear they still boil lobsters alive.


I thought you were interested in leather?


Yes.

Do you not know anything about the production of meat?


Apart from the obvious, probably not. I saw a television programme in the
middle of the year that claimed the average Hot Dog has 0% meat, so maybe
I'm not alone.

--
Praise be to Jahbulon, holy god of Royal Arch Freemasons
http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/jahbulon.html

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you,
then they fight you, then you win"
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Old 28-12-2011, 12:07 AM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan
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Default How cruel is leather?

On 12/27/2011 3:08 PM, Jahbulon wrote:
George wrote in
:

From which other animals is leather harvested?


Are you incapable of keying the word "leather" into a search engine and


I wanted an answer dealing with group issues, posted to
alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian.


"group issues" - what's that supposed to mean?


No, it isn't. No one who writes in (more or less)
grammatically correct English as you do can exhibit
such utter ignorance of livestock husbandry and the
products obtained from livestock.


You would - I hope - be amazed at how crap some people's educations can be.
My school was adjacent to a cattle farm, but I have no idea what happens to
them apart from what I've seen on television. One of my former teachers is
currently serving 21 years for child abuse.


No matter how crappy your formal education, the questions you're asking
make you seem not just poorly educated, but frankly clueless, and
seemingly incapable of doing the normal information-seeking that the
vast majority of people find easy and routine.



I hear they still boil lobsters alive.


I thought you were interested in leather?


Yes.

Do you not know anything about the production of meat?


Apart from the obvious, probably not. I saw a television programme in the
middle of the year that claimed the average Hot Dog has 0% meat, so maybe
I'm not alone.


Hot dogs and most other sausages are primarily meat. You need better
news sources.
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Old 28-12-2011, 01:58 AM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan
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Default How cruel is leather?

George Plimpton wrote in
:

I wanted an answer dealing with group issues,
posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian.


"group issues" - what's that supposed to mean?


Vegetarian animal ethics.

No matter how crappy your formal education, the questions
you're asking make you seem not just poorly educated, but
frankly clueless, and seemingly incapable of doing the
normal information-seeking that the vast majority of
people find easy and routine.


I note you comments.

Hot dogs and most other sausages are primarily meat.
You need better news sources.


Hot dogs are cartilage and so on.

--
Praise be to Jahbulon, holy god of Royal Arch Freemasons
http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/jahbulon.html

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you,
then they fight you, then you win"
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Old 28-12-2011, 02:10 AM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan
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Default How cruel is leather?

On 12/27/2011 5:58 PM, Jahbulon wrote:
George wrote in
:

I wanted an answer dealing with group issues,
posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian.


"group issues" - what's that supposed to mean?


Vegetarian animal ethics.


What's the group? Who are they?


No matter how crappy your formal education, the questions
you're asking make you seem not just poorly educated, but
frankly clueless, and seemingly incapable of doing the
normal information-seeking that the vast majority of
people find easy and routine.


I note you comments.


Yes, they're implicitly quite critical of you.


Hot dogs and most other sausages are primarily meat.
You need better news sources.


Hot dogs are cartilage and so on.


No, mostly they're meat.
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/...nts-explained/
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Old 28-12-2011, 02:49 AM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan
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Default How cruel is leather?

George Plimpton wrote in
:

I wanted an answer dealing with group issues,
posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian.

"group issues" - what's that supposed to mean?


Vegetarian animal ethics.


What's the group? Who are they?


It's the group to which I sent my original post,
alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian.

No matter how crappy your formal education, the
questions you're asking make you seem not just
poorly educated, but frankly clueless, and
seemingly incapable of doing the normal
information-seeking that the vast majority of
people find easy and routine.


I note you comments.


Yes, they're implicitly quite critical of you.


Not really. You say I was born clueless, in some ways incapable and was
not given a proper education. None of those would be my fault.

Hot dogs and most other sausages are primarily
meat. You need better news sources.


Hot dogs are cartilage and so on.


No, mostly they're meat.


Your understanding of meat includes, "paste-like and batter-like poultry
product, produced by forcing bones, with attached edible tissue, through a
sieve or similar device under high pressure."

Seems to me that is far better described as cartilage and so on, but don't
let me stop you calling it meat.

--
Praise be to Jahbulon, holy god of Royal Arch Freemasons
http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/jahbulon.html

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you,
then they fight you, then you win"


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