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Old 29-12-2011, 02:32 AM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan
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Default How cruel is leather?

"Jahbulon" wrote

What are the problems and advantages of leather replacements in the
manufacture of shoes and belts?


Why don't you do some research and report back to the group instead of
tossing out questions and hoping others will do the work for you?




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Old 29-12-2011, 02:41 AM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan
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Default How cruel is leather?

"Dutch" wrote in news
Why don't you do some research and report back
to the group instead of tossing out questions
and hoping others will do the work for you?


I don't know where to start. My only experience is non-leather belts that
seem to break within about a week, and shoes that don't last as long as
those made of leather.

--
Praise be to Jahbulon, holy god of Royal Arch Freemasons
http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/jahbulon.html

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you,
then they fight you, then you win"
  #33 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 29-12-2011, 04:00 AM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan
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Default How cruel is leather?

On 12/28/2011 6:13 PM, Jahbulon wrote:
George wrote in
:

Hot Dogs contain animal matter, but not meat.


They contain mainly meat.
You have no evidence otherwise.


Is it meat or vegetables that gives you mad cow disease?


I don't have it.
  #34 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 29-12-2011, 04:02 AM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan
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Default How cruel is leather?

On 12/28/2011 6:41 PM, Jahbulon wrote:
wrote in news
Why don't you do some research and report back
to the group instead of tossing out questions
and hoping others will do the work for you?


I don't know where to start. My only experience is non-leather belts that
seem to break within about a week, and shoes that don't last as long as
those made of leather.


I have numerous cloth belts that have lasted for years, as well as
non-leather athletic shoes that also have lasted for years.
  #35 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-01-2012, 09:54 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan
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Default How cruel is leather?


[email protected] wrote in message ...
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 02:41:47 +0000 (UTC), Jahbulon

wrote:

"Dutch" wrote in news
Why don't you do some research and report back
to the group instead of tossing out questions
and hoping others will do the work for you?


I don't know where to start. My only experience is non-leather belts that
seem to break within about a week, and shoes that don't last as long as
those made of leather.


You're almost certainly contributing to more cds every time you buy
those
things than you would be if you bought leather, unless those things don't
involve any cds at all as leather doesn't.


That's a lie.



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Old 02-01-2012, 11:59 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan
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Default How cruel is leather?

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 02:17:37 +0000 (UTC), Jahbulon
wrote:

[email protected] wrote in :

Does leather only come from cows


No, there are lots of different kinds. You could
find snake or alligator if
that makes you feel better.


Thanks.

What are the problems and advantages of leather replacements in the
manufacture of shoes and belts?


Leather is made of byproducts that will be disposed of somehow whether
people buy leather or not. So when you buy leather you're paying for processed
waste, but if you buy a leather substitute you're likely to contribute to deaths
which occur in order to produce the product you're buying. When you buy leather
you're not contributing to any wildlife deaths or suffering of cattle, because
those things are associated with food production NOT the production of leather,
and would occur just the same regardless of whether people buy leather or not.
  #37 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-01-2012, 11:59 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan
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Default How cruel is leather?

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 02:41:47 +0000 (UTC), Jahbulon
wrote:

"Dutch" wrote in news
Why don't you do some research and report back
to the group instead of tossing out questions
and hoping others will do the work for you?


I don't know where to start. My only experience is non-leather belts that
seem to break within about a week, and shoes that don't last as long as
those made of leather.


You're almost certainly contributing to more cds every time you buy those
things than you would be if you bought leather, unless those things don't
involve any cds at all as leather doesn't.
  #38 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 06-01-2012, 12:10 AM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan
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Default How cruel is leather?

[email protected] wrote in message ...
On Mon, 2 Jan 2012 13:54:58 -0800, "Dutch" lied:


[email protected] wrote in message ...
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 02:41:47 +0000 (UTC), Jahbulon

wrote:

"Dutch" wrote in news
Why don't you do some research and report back
to the group instead of tossing out questions
and hoping others will do the work for you?

I don't know where to start. My only experience is non-leather belts
that
seem to break within about a week, and shoes that don't last as long as
those made of leather.

You're almost certainly contributing to more cds every time you buy
those
things than you would be if you bought leather, unless those things
don't
involve any cds at all as leather doesn't.


That's a lie.


You're lying. You can't say every death associated with the animal is
also
associated with every single product and part of product that results in
the
animal having lived and died.


You can and you must.

For example if a grass raised steer was
responsible for 12 significant deaths of other animals like rodents and
reptiles, which is probably extremely high


You don't have the slightest idea if it's high or not.

, and the animal was raised for beef,
then the 12 deaths are split amoung however many servings of beef resulted
from
butchering. That being the case those deaths can't ALSO be AGAIN counted
for the
by-products which the animal was not specifically raised for. Not for
leather,
not for fertilizer, not for pet food...


Every product derived from the animal shares in the resultant death toll.
Why would pet food and leather be exempt?





  #39 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 06-01-2012, 01:23 AM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan
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Default How cruel is leather?

On Mon, 2 Jan 2012 13:54:58 -0800, "Dutch" lied:


[email protected] wrote in message ...
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 02:41:47 +0000 (UTC), Jahbulon

wrote:

"Dutch" wrote in news
Why don't you do some research and report back
to the group instead of tossing out questions
and hoping others will do the work for you?

I don't know where to start. My only experience is non-leather belts that
seem to break within about a week, and shoes that don't last as long as
those made of leather.


You're almost certainly contributing to more cds every time you buy
those
things than you would be if you bought leather, unless those things don't
involve any cds at all as leather doesn't.


That's a lie.


You're lying. You can't say every death associated with the animal is also
associated with every single product and part of product that results in the
animal having lived and died. For example if a grass raised steer was
responsible for 12 significant deaths of other animals like rodents and
reptiles, which is probably extremely high, and the animal was raised for beef,
then the 12 deaths are split amoung however many servings of beef resulted from
butchering. That being the case those deaths can't ALSO be AGAIN counted for the
by-products which the animal was not specifically raised for. Not for leather,
not for fertilizer, not for pet food...
  #40 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 07-01-2012, 11:06 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan
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Posts: 1,027
Default How cruel is leather?



[email protected] wrote in message ...
On Thu, 5 Jan 2012 16:10:15 -0800, "Dutch" wrote:

[email protected] wrote in message ...
On Mon, 2 Jan 2012 13:54:58 -0800, "Dutch" lied:


[email protected] wrote in message
m...
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 02:41:47 +0000 (UTC), Jahbulon

wrote:

"Dutch" wrote in news
Why don't you do some research and report back
to the group instead of tossing out questions
and hoping others will do the work for you?

I don't know where to start. My only experience is non-leather belts
that
seem to break within about a week, and shoes that don't last as long
as
those made of leather.

You're almost certainly contributing to more cds every time you buy
those
things than you would be if you bought leather, unless those things
don't
involve any cds at all as leather doesn't.

That's a lie.

You're lying. You can't say every death associated with the animal is
also
associated with every single product and part of product that results in
the
animal having lived and died.


You can and you must.

For example if a grass raised steer was
responsible for 12 significant deaths of other animals like rodents and
reptiles, which is probably extremely high


You don't have the slightest idea if it's high or not.


How do you think cows kill?


Hay production kills animals.


, and the animal was raised for beef,
then the 12 deaths are split amoung however many servings of beef
resulted
from
butchering. That being the case those deaths can't ALSO be AGAIN counted
for the
by-products which the animal was not specifically raised for. Not for
leather,
not for fertilizer, not for pet food...


Every product derived from the animal shares in the resultant death toll.
Why would pet food and leather be exempt?


Because it was only raised for food.


Then no leather or pet food were produced.





  #41 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 07-01-2012, 11:28 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan
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Posts: 1,652
Default How cruel is leather?

On Thu, 5 Jan 2012 16:10:15 -0800, "Dutch" wrote:

[email protected] wrote in message ...
On Mon, 2 Jan 2012 13:54:58 -0800, "Dutch" lied:


[email protected] wrote in message ...
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 02:41:47 +0000 (UTC), Jahbulon

wrote:

"Dutch" wrote in news
Why don't you do some research and report back
to the group instead of tossing out questions
and hoping others will do the work for you?

I don't know where to start. My only experience is non-leather belts
that
seem to break within about a week, and shoes that don't last as long as
those made of leather.

You're almost certainly contributing to more cds every time you buy
those
things than you would be if you bought leather, unless those things
don't
involve any cds at all as leather doesn't.

That's a lie.


You're lying. You can't say every death associated with the animal is
also
associated with every single product and part of product that results in
the
animal having lived and died.


You can and you must.

For example if a grass raised steer was
responsible for 12 significant deaths of other animals like rodents and
reptiles, which is probably extremely high


You don't have the slightest idea if it's high or not.


How do you think cows kill?

, and the animal was raised for beef,
then the 12 deaths are split amoung however many servings of beef resulted
from
butchering. That being the case those deaths can't ALSO be AGAIN counted
for the
by-products which the animal was not specifically raised for. Not for
leather,
not for fertilizer, not for pet food...


Every product derived from the animal shares in the resultant death toll.
Why would pet food and leather be exempt?


Because it was only raised for food.
  #42 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 10-01-2012, 11:09 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan
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Posts: 1,652
Default How cruel is leather?

On Sat, 7 Jan 2012 15:06:26 -0800, "Dutch" wrote:



[email protected] wrote in message ...
On Thu, 5 Jan 2012 16:10:15 -0800, "Dutch" wrote:

[email protected] wrote in message ...
On Mon, 2 Jan 2012 13:54:58 -0800, "Dutch" lied:


[email protected] wrote in message
om...
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 02:41:47 +0000 (UTC), Jahbulon

wrote:

"Dutch" wrote in news
Why don't you do some research and report back
to the group instead of tossing out questions
and hoping others will do the work for you?

I don't know where to start. My only experience is non-leather belts
that
seem to break within about a week, and shoes that don't last as long
as
those made of leather.

You're almost certainly contributing to more cds every time you buy
those
things than you would be if you bought leather, unless those things
don't
involve any cds at all as leather doesn't.

That's a lie.

You're lying. You can't say every death associated with the animal is
also
associated with every single product and part of product that results in
the
animal having lived and died.

You can and you must.

For example if a grass raised steer was
responsible for 12 significant deaths of other animals like rodents and
reptiles, which is probably extremely high

You don't have the slightest idea if it's high or not.


How do you think cows kill?


Hay production kills animals.


If they have to be fed hay sometimes that would add some cds.

, and the animal was raised for beef,
then the 12 deaths are split amoung however many servings of beef
resulted
from
butchering. That being the case those deaths can't ALSO be AGAIN counted
for the
by-products which the animal was not specifically raised for. Not for
leather,
not for fertilizer, not for pet food...

Every product derived from the animal shares in the resultant death toll.
Why would pet food and leather be exempt?


Because it was only raised for food.


Then no leather or pet food were produced.


It was raised for food, and leather and pet food are made from the waste. It
would still be raised for food regardless of what the waste is used for.
  #43 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-01-2012, 06:12 AM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan
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Default How cruel is leather?



[email protected] wrote in message ...
On Sat, 7 Jan 2012 15:06:26 -0800, "Dutch" wrote:



[email protected] wrote in message ...
On Thu, 5 Jan 2012 16:10:15 -0800, "Dutch" wrote:

[email protected] wrote in message
m...
On Mon, 2 Jan 2012 13:54:58 -0800, "Dutch" lied:


[email protected] wrote in message
news:[email protected] com...
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 02:41:47 +0000 (UTC), Jahbulon

wrote:

"Dutch" wrote in
news
Why don't you do some research and report back
to the group instead of tossing out questions
and hoping others will do the work for you?

I don't know where to start. My only experience is non-leather belts
that
seem to break within about a week, and shoes that don't last as long
as
those made of leather.

You're almost certainly contributing to more cds every time you
buy
those
things than you would be if you bought leather, unless those things
don't
involve any cds at all as leather doesn't.

That's a lie.

You're lying. You can't say every death associated with the animal
is
also
associated with every single product and part of product that results
in
the
animal having lived and died.

You can and you must.

For example if a grass raised steer was
responsible for 12 significant deaths of other animals like rodents
and
reptiles, which is probably extremely high

You don't have the slightest idea if it's high or not.

How do you think cows kill?


Hay production kills animals.


If they have to be fed hay sometimes that would add some cds.

, and the animal was raised for beef,
then the 12 deaths are split amoung however many servings of beef
resulted
from
butchering. That being the case those deaths can't ALSO be AGAIN
counted
for the
by-products which the animal was not specifically raised for. Not for
leather,
not for fertilizer, not for pet food...

Every product derived from the animal shares in the resultant death
toll.
Why would pet food and leather be exempt?

Because it was only raised for food.


Then no leather or pet food were produced.


It was raised for food, and leather and pet food are made from the
waste. It
would still be raised for food regardless of what the waste is used for.


It's not waste, any more than the meat is waste. Both products enter into
the economics of the decision to raise livestock in the first place.



  #44 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 13-01-2012, 12:07 AM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan
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Default How cruel is leather?

On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 22:12:27 -0800, "Dutch" wrote:

[email protected] wrote in message ...
On Sat, 7 Jan 2012 15:06:26 -0800, "Dutch" wrote:



[email protected] wrote in message ...
On Thu, 5 Jan 2012 16:10:15 -0800, "Dutch" wrote:

Every product derived from the animal shares in the resultant death
toll.
Why would pet food and leather be exempt?

Because it was only raised for food.

Then no leather or pet food were produced.


It was raised for food, and leather and pet food are made from the
waste. It
would still be raised for food regardless of what the waste is used for.


It's not waste, any more than the meat is waste.


LOL! You certainly have some amusing ideas. You think sometimes Tbones and
Ribeyes are waste products of the leather industry...LOL...
  #45 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 13-01-2012, 04:34 AM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan
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Default How cruel is leather?



[email protected] wrote in message ...
On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 22:12:27 -0800, "Dutch" wrote:

[email protected] wrote in message ...
On Sat, 7 Jan 2012 15:06:26 -0800, "Dutch" wrote:



[email protected] wrote in message
m...
On Thu, 5 Jan 2012 16:10:15 -0800, "Dutch" wrote:

Every product derived from the animal shares in the resultant death
toll.
Why would pet food and leather be exempt?

Because it was only raised for food.

Then no leather or pet food were produced.

It was raised for food, and leather and pet food are made from the
waste. It
would still be raised for food regardless of what the waste is used for.


It's not waste, any more than the meat is waste.


LOL! You certainly have some amusing ideas. You think sometimes Tbones
and
Ribeyes are waste products of the leather industry...LOL...


I said neither is waste. Both form a part of the same pre-production
economic profile. Yes, meat is considered the primary product, but every
part is used and counts.





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