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Old 19-11-2011, 04:43 AM posted to soc.culture.indian,alt.fan.jai-maharaj,alt.religion.hindu,alt.food.vegan,alt.support.diabetes
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Default A Wholesome, Plant-Based Diet May Cut Risks and Complications of Diabetes

guide that can be downloaded http://www.naturaleater.com/guide/guide.htm

Thanks, I read his guide. I think it is very good.
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Old 19-11-2011, 10:00 AM posted to soc.culture.indian,alt.fan.jai-maharaj,alt.religion.hindu,alt.food.vegan,alt.support.diabetes
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Default A Wholesome, Plant-Based Diet May Cut Risks and Complications of Diabetes

On Nov 18, 9:33*am, Dennes De Mennes wrote:
In article , jaym1212
@hotmail.com says...
|:|
|:| there's also the glycemic index you need to look at. fruits such as papaya, mango,
|:| pineapple, etc. are just as bad as straight sugar ...
|:|
|:|If a person ate nothing but papaya, mango and pineapple (and maybe
|:|some B12), how long would it take an average non-diabetic to become
|:|one? I am worried because I have been eating primarily cantaloupes and
|:|bananas for the past two months and according to fitday, averaging 88%
|:|carbs, 7% protein and 5% fat (1% PUFA).

geoff bond from naturaleater.com has this 'savanna' model with 6 different levels, the
top level is green-green which is perfect, then comes green, which is in close
conformity, then green-amber, comfort zone or within the margin of tolerance of a healthy
person for daily consupmtion, then amber, slight lapse but tolerable regularly if rest of
diet is good, then amber-red, modest lapse and tolerable on occasion if rest of diet
good, then finally red, bad lapse, completely avoid. this is all in the book 'deadly
harvest'. that one you need to purchase.

for bananas he says: ``The degree of maturity can make a difference. Fruits, notably
bananas, have higher G.I.?s the riper they are.'' this is coming from:http://www.naturaleater.com/natural-...ating-appendix...

table 2 you can see lists them as foods to be eaten in controlled quantities, the
quantity being 1 banana, or 1 slice of melon. tables 3 4 and 5 are the G.I. tables, and
banana is listed in the borderline table (table 4) with an index of 45 if green, and
melon in the bad table (table 3), with an index of 70, but another difference is that the
melon is low density and the banana medium, so they sort of cancel out, banana is less
glycemic but more dense, the other high glycemic but low density.

this is the link to the whole book that's available online for free:http://www.naturaleater.com/Natural-...-Web-Index.htm

this is another guide that can be downloaded:http://www.naturaleater.com/guide/guide.htm

not sure if it's the same as the natural eating book, or something else. i haven't looked
at that one yet.


I have reservations on numerous things on the linked pages.
To start with a lot restrictions on fructose and fructose containing
fruits. Still interesting. Just remember this is a room full of folks
with either full DM or prediabetes depending on the
diagnositic thresholds chosen.
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Old 19-11-2011, 10:15 AM posted to soc.culture.indian,alt.fan.jai-maharaj,alt.religion.hindu,alt.food.vegan,alt.support.diabetes
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Default A Wholesome, Plant-Based Diet May Cut Risks and Complications of Diabetes

On Nov 18, 8:43*pm, jay wrote:
guide that can be downloadedhttp://www.naturaleater.com/guide/guide.htm


Thanks, I read his guide. I think it is very good.



Note that author could lose some weight, IMO.
He is too big a fan of canola oil and fructose.
And he is fat phobic.

fat the the secret to effective weight lose............Trig
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Old 19-11-2011, 05:39 PM posted to soc.culture.indian,alt.fan.jai-maharaj,alt.religion.hindu,alt.food.vegan,alt.support.diabetes
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Default A Wholesome, Plant-Based Diet May Cut Risks and Complications of Diabetes

In article ,
says...
|:|
|:|On Nov 18, 9:33*am, Dennes De Mennes wrote:
|:| In article , jaym1212
|:| @hotmail.com says...
|:| |:|
|:| |:| there's also the glycemic index you need to look at. fruits such as papaya, mango,
|:| |:| pineapple, etc. are just as bad as straight sugar ...
|:| |:|
|:| |:|If a person ate nothing but papaya, mango and pineapple (and maybe
|:| |:|some B12), how long would it take an average non-diabetic to become
|:| |:|one? I am worried because I have been eating primarily cantaloupes and
|:| |:|bananas for the past two months and according to fitday, averaging 88%
|:| |:|carbs, 7% protein and 5% fat (1% PUFA).
|:|
|:| geoff bond from naturaleater.com has this 'savanna' model with 6 different levels, the
|:| top level is green-green which is perfect, then comes green, which is in close
|:| conformity, then green-amber, comfort zone or within the margin of tolerance of a healthy
|:| person for daily consupmtion, then amber, slight lapse but tolerable regularly if rest of
|:| diet is good, then amber-red, modest lapse and tolerable on occasion if rest of diet
|:| good, then finally red, bad lapse, completely avoid. this is all in the book 'deadly
|:| harvest'. that one you need to purchase.
|:|
|:| for bananas he says: ``The degree of maturity can make a difference. Fruits, notably
|:| bananas, have higher G.I.?s the riper they are.'' this is coming from:
http://www.naturaleater.com/natural-...ating-appendix...
|:|
|:| table 2 you can see lists them as foods to be eaten in controlled quantities, the
|:| quantity being 1 banana, or 1 slice of melon. tables 3 4 and 5 are the G.I. tables, and
|:| banana is listed in the borderline table (table 4) with an index of 45 if green, and
|:| melon in the bad table (table 3), with an index of 70, but another difference is that the
|:| melon is low density and the banana medium, so they sort of cancel out, banana is less
|:| glycemic but more dense, the other high glycemic but low density.
|:|
|:| this is the link to the whole book that's available online for free:http://www.naturaleater.com/Natural-...-Web-Index.htm
|:|
|:| this is another guide that can be downloaded:http://www.naturaleater.com/guide/guide.htm
|:|
|:| not sure if it's the same as the natural eating book, or something else. i haven't looked
|:| at that one yet.
|:|
|:|I have reservations on numerous things on the linked pages.
|:|To start with a lot restrictions on fructose and fructose containing
|:|fruits. Still interesting. Just remember this is a room full of folks
|:|with either full DM or prediabetes depending on the
|:|diagnositic thresholds chosen.

yeah--consider it just one more source of health information but not the definitive one,
this guy even opposes all grains and all legumes, not to mention all dairy...

but he's convincing on the proposition that meat is not as poisonous as it's been made
out to be by most vegetarians. it just has to be wild game, not farmed.


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Old 19-11-2011, 05:48 PM posted to soc.culture.indian,alt.fan.jai-maharaj,alt.religion.hindu,alt.food.vegan,alt.support.diabetes
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Default A Wholesome, Plant-Based Diet May Cut Risks and Complications of Diabetes

In article , jaym1212
@hotmail.com says...
|:|
|:| guide that can be downloaded http://www.naturaleater.com/guide/guide.htm
|:|
|:|Thanks, I read his guide. I think it is very good.

you're welcome. just as an aside, buddhists seem to pay a lot of attention to eating
right. i'm wondering if maybe hinduism doesn't delve into that as much? so there are more
problems in hindu populations in controlling unhealthful eating? just a thought...
  #22 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 19-11-2011, 10:12 PM posted to soc.culture.indian,alt.fan.jai-maharaj,alt.religion.hindu,alt.food.vegan,alt.support.diabetes
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Default A Wholesome, Plant-Based Diet May Cut Risks and Complications of Diabetes

guide that can be downloadedhttp://www.naturaleater.com/guide/guide.htm
Thanks, I read his guide. I think it is very good.


Note that author could lose some weight, IMO.


He looks OK judging by the picture on the homepage.
Which picture are you seeing?

He is too big a fan of canola oil and fructose.


Do you mean refined fructose or fructose as part of fruits?
He does seem to prefer MUFA/n3 (canola/olive/flax/walnut/fish) over
PUFA/SFAs (sunflower/corn/peanut/butter/animal fats and even coconut
oil).

And he is fat phobic....fat the the secret to effective weight loss


Apparently so.
He only recommends small quantities of even the "preferred" oils.
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Old 20-11-2011, 08:19 AM posted to soc.culture.indian,alt.fan.jai-maharaj,alt.religion.hindu,alt.food.vegan,alt.support.diabetes
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Default A Wholesome, Plant-Based Diet May Cut Risks and Complications of Diabetes

On Nov 17, 3:05*am, |"
wrote:
On Nov 16, 9:28*pm, and/orwww.mantra.com/jai(Dr.









Jai Maharaj) wrote:
In article ,
*Robert Miles posted:


Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:


Forwarded post from Earth News October 2011


A Wholesome, Plant-Based Diet May Cut Risks and Complications of
Diabetes


By Caitlin Rose


If the cost of treating a chronic health condition is weighing you
down, you’re not alone. Last month, the World Economic Forum
estimated that by the year 2030, the global cost of treating chronic
health conditions will total $47 trillion dollars.1 According to the
National Institute of Health, diabetes alone affects almost 26
million people in the United States and national treatment costs for
diabetes total $174 billion dollars per year. Furthermore,
individuals diagnosed with diabetes have an average of twice as many
medical expenses as non-diabetics.2


Fortunately, leading health experts agree that by switching to a low-
fat, plant-based diet, you may be able to alleviate certain risk
factors and complications resulting from diabetes. Numerous
scientific studies have concluded that a low-fat, plant-based diet
may help you lose weight, increase insulin sensitivity and improve
blood sugar levels. If you have a family history of diabetes, or are
worried that you may be at risk, adopting a wholesome vegetarian diet
may help prevent the development of diabetes as well.


Weight loss is a consistent feature of a wholesome plant-based diet..
According to a 2010 USDA Dietary Guidelines report, vegetarian diets
are often lower in calories, and vegetarians tend to have a lower
body mass index than non-vegetarians.3 As a bonus, a low-fat, plant-
based diet may also be easier to adopt than the standard diet put out
by the American Diabetes Association (ADA). In 2004, researchers
affiliated with the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine
(PCRM) compared a low-fat, plant-based diet with the diet designed by
the ADA. The study published in the peer-reviewed journal, Diabetes
Care, found that those on a plant-based diet not only lost more
weight, but also had an easier time sticking with the diet.4 This was
possibly due to the fact that while participants in the ADA diet were
required to restrict calories and count carbs, those following a low-
fat, plant-based diet were able to eat as much as they wanted within
the parameters of the diet.


A healthy vegetarian diet may improve blood sugar control and insulin
sensitivity, leading to a decreased need for medication. During the
same comparison study, researchers found that after 22 weeks, 43% of
participants in the plant-based diet were able to decrease their
medication, compared to 26% of those following the standard ADA
diet.5 In another study published in the American Journal of
Medicine, researchers compared a low-fat, plant-based diet to a diet
recommended by the National Cholesterol Education Program. The study
participants consisted of post-menopausal women whose weight put them
at risk for diabetes. They found that after 14 weeks, those on a low-
fat, plant-based diet experienced lower blood sugar levels and
increased insulin sensitivity. Those on the NCEP diet did not
experience these changes.6 Experts at the Mayo Clinic confirm that a
vegetarian diet consisting primarily of whole grains, fruits,
vegetables, legumes and nuts can improve blood sugar control and make
your body more responsive to insulin.


Complications of diabetes may respond well to a wholesome vegetarian
diet as well. Because a plant-based diet is usually low in saturated
fat and cholesterol and high in soluble fiber, it may reduce your
risk of heart disease, which is a common complication of diabetes.
The American Dietetic Association states that vegetarians have “lower
rates of death from ischemic heart disease; ... lower blood
cholesterol levels, lower blood pressure, and lower rates of
hypertension, type 2 diabetes, and prostate and colon cancer.”7 In
fact, among participants in the first PCRM comparison study who ate a
plant-based diet, those suffering from hypertension were able to
discontinue their prescriptions after 12 weeks.


From these and numerous other studies, doctors, medical researchers
and other health experts have concluded that a low-fat, plant-based
diet is safe and appropriate for diabetics. The benefits of a
wholesome vegetarian diet are significant for those diagnosed with or
at risk for diabetes. The cost of treating diabetes and its
associated complications is immense. If we put just a fraction of the
projected cost towards buying healthy, whole, plant-based food, we
could save millions of hospital hours and billions of treatment
dollars. When it comes to your health, it’s never too late or too
early to start eating well.


Source:
Earth News October 2011


Related Content


Diabetes and Diet: A Crucial Combination for Health


http://www.downtoearth.org/health/ge...es-and-diet-cr...


Americans with diabetes to double to 44 million


http://www.downtoearth.org/blogs/200...ns-diabetes-to...


Footnotes


1
Bloom DE, Cafiero ET, Jané-Llopis E, Abrahams-Gessel S, Bloom LR,
Fathima S, Feigl AB, Gaziano T, Mowafi M, Pandya A, Prettner K,
Rosenberg L, Seligman B, Stein A, & Weinstein C. The Global Economic
Burden of Non-communicable Diseases. Geneva: World Economic Forum.
2011 Oct.


2
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. National Diabetes Fact
Sheet: national estimates and general information on diabetes and
prediabetes in the United States, 2011. Atlanta, GA: U.S. Department
of Health and Human Services, Centers for Disease Control and
Prevention, 2011


3
Report of the Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee on the Dietary
Guidelines for Americans,2010. USDA, 2010. Web, September 5 2011


http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/DGAs2010-DGACReport.htm


4
Barnard ND, Cohen J, Jenkins DJ, Turner-McGrievy G, Gloede L, Jaster
B, Seidl K, Green AA, Talpers S. A low-fat vegan diet improves
glycemic control and cardiovascular risk factors in a randomized
clinical trial in individuals with type 2 diabetes. Diabetes Care.
2006 Aug;29(8):1777-83. PubMed PMID: 16873779


5
ibid


6
Barnard ND, Scialli AR, Turner-McGrievy G, Lanou AJ, Glass J. The
effects of a low-fat, plant-based dietary intervention on body
weight, metabolism, and insulin sensitivity. Am J Med. 2005
Sep;118(9):991-7


7
Mangels,A, Messina, and Vesanto Melina. Position of the American
Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada: Vegetarian Diets.
Journal of the American Dietetic Association, Jun. 2003, pp. 748-65


End of forwarded post from Earth News October 2011


Does that mean that the plant-based diet often used in India
isn't wholesome? *That country has a rather high rate of diabetes
compared to the rest of the world.


Excerpts:


Doctors say a perverse twist of science makes Indians susceptible to
diabetes and complications such as heart disease and stroke as soon
as their living conditions improve. As a decade of 7 percent average
annual growth lifts 400 million people into the middle class, bodies
primed over generations for poverty, malnutrition and manual labor
are leaving Indians ill- prepared for calorie-loaded food or the
cars, TVs and computers that sap physical activity.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-1...-diabetes-scou...


In India, Vegetarianism Is Usually Synonymous With Lacto
Vegetarianism. . . . According To The 2006 Hindu-Cnn-Ibn State Of The
Nation Survey,[11] 31% Of Indians Are Vegetarians, While Another 9%
Consumes Eggs.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_by_country


Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti


It would be interesting to see how the meat eaters of India
fare in comparison to the non meat eaters. Both populations
are likely eating too much sugar, white rice, and refined
wheat. Plus even whole wheat and whole grain rice
aren't ideal. I wonder if the population is eating fewer
legumes?

You better get your BMI below 23 if you are Indian..............Trig


While some focus of grains, I think there are other choices.
Lentils are certainly a rather ancient food dating to the
start of farming I suspect.

1. J Sci Food Agric. 2010 Jul;90(9):1417-22.

In vitro fermentability and antioxidant capacity of the indigestible
fraction of
cooked black beans (Phaseolus vulgaris L.), lentils (Lens culinaris
L.) and
chickpeas (Cicer arietinum L.).

Hernández-Salazar M, Osorio-Diaz P, Loarca-Piña G, Reynoso-Camacho R,
Tovar J,
Bello-Pérez LA.

Programa de Posgrado en Alimentos del Centro de la República (PROPAC)
Research
and Graduate Studies in Food Science, School of Chemistry, Universidad
Autónoma
de Querétaro, Mexico.

BACKGROUND:
Pulses represent an important source of protein, as well as
digestible and indigestible carbohydrates. Little information is
available on the
indigestible carbohydrates and antioxidant capacity of legume seeds.
The cooked
seeds of three pulses (black bean, chickpea and lentil) were evaluated
for their
indigestible fraction (IF), polyphenols content, antioxidant capacity
and in
vitro fermentability, including short-chain fatty acid production.

RESULTS:
The insoluble indigestible fraction (IIF) was higher than the soluble
counterpart (soluble indigestible fraction, SIF). The SIF value was
highest in
black beans, while no difference was observed between chickpeas and
lentils.
Black beans and lentils had higher polyphenols content than chickpeas.
The IF of
black beans exhibited the lowest and chickpeas the highest associated
polyphenols
content. Condensed tannins were retained to some extent in the IF that
exhibited
significant antioxidant capacity. The total IF of the three pulses
produced short
chain fatty acids (SCFA) after 24 h of in vitro fermentation by human
colonic
microflora. IF from black bean and lentil were best substrates for the
fermentative production of butyric acid.

CONCLUSIONS:
It is concluded that the IF of pulses might be an important source
of bioactive compounds.

PMID: 20549791 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


With bit of moderation legumes can fit into a low
carb diet granted they may crowd some other foods
at bit. Or perhaps the standard can be relaxed somewhat.

Grains are a no go for me........................Trig
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Old 21-11-2011, 01:23 AM posted to soc.culture.indian,alt.fan.jai-maharaj,alt.religion.hindu,alt.food.vegan,alt.support.diabetes
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Default A Wholesome, Plant-Based Diet May Cut Risks and Complicationsof Diabetes

On 18 Nov 2011 01:19:29 GMT
wrote:

Two looks at diabetes prevalence in india and the united states.

Diagnosed in india:
AEpidemiology of type 2 diabetes: Indian scenario

http://www.icmr.nic.in/ijmr/2007/march/0302.pdf.Qa

population based study was conducted in six metropolitan cities across
India and recruited 11,216 subjects aged 20 yr and above
representative of
all socio-economic strata13. An oral glucose tolerance test was done
using
capillary glucose and diabetes was defined using the WHO criteria14.
The study reported that the age standardized prevalence of type 2
diabetes was
12.1 per cent. This study also revealed that the prevalence in the
southern
part of India to be higher-13.5 per cent in Chennai, 12.4 per cent, in
Bangalore, and 16.6 per cent Hyderabad; compared to eastern India
(Kolkatta), 11.7 per cent; northern India (New Delhi), 11.6 per cent;
and
western India (Mumbai), 9.3 per cent. The study also suggested that
there
was a large pool of subjects with impaired glucose tolerance (IGT),
14 per
cent with a high risk of conversion to diabetes.


According to the International Diabetes Federation website which
I linked, the age-adjusted prevalence for all of India was 9.2
percent. This is not the same as the prevalence for a few selected
urban areas. The IDF website also shows the prevalence of IGT
for India to be 3.0 percent. This is not the same as a large pool
of subjects, 14 percent of which have a high risk of conversion.

You are quoting nonsense statistics.

Diabetes Statistics - American Diabetes Association

http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-bas...es-statistics/

Data from the 2011 National Diabetes Fact Sheet (released Jan. 26,
2011) Total prevalence of diabetes

Total: 25.8 million children and adults in the United States--8.3%
of the population--have diabetes.

Diagnosed: 18.8 million people
diagnosed: 6.04%.


Here you have failed to mention the percentage in the US with impaired
glucose tolerance, because if you did it would only support the
assertion that India has a low rate. The IDF website puts the
incidence of IGT at 10.8 percent in the US. This is more than three
times the rate in India.

You have completely ignored the high rate of diabetes in Lebanon and
Saudia Arabia; this disproves your assertion that India has the
highest rate of diabetes in the world.

You also failed to comment on the fact that diabetes treatments cost
more than a hundred times as much per patient in the US as compared
to India.



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