Vegan (alt.food.vegan) This newsgroup exists to share ideas and issues of concern among vegans. We are always happy to share our recipes- perhaps especially with omnivores who are simply curious- or even better, accomodating a vegan guest for a meal!

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  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Tech_Fiddle
 
Posts: n/a
Default Two reasons

Isn't it accurate to say that people turn veg*an for two reasons: (1)
for health reasons; and (2) for philosophical/ecological reasons. The
first is a good start; the second is more noble. So if people
complain about the foods they miss, isn't it accurate to say they're
still in the (1) area? If they had a deep concern about animals and
the planet, their tastes would become informed by their philosophy.

T.F.

******************************************
Vegetarian Bookstore - http://www.geocities.com/conniesunday/veg.html
Animal Rights Law - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AnimalRightsLaw
Animal Rights Arts - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AnimalRightsArts
Vegetarian Musicians -
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VegetarianMusicians

******************************************
  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default


OK killer, let's play again. Maybe this time you can actually add to the
discussion instead of snipping out whole posts and running away. I doubt
it, but maybe you aren't really as stupid as you appear.




"Tech_Fiddle" > wrote in message
om...
> Isn't it accurate to say that people turn veg*an for two reasons: (1)
> for health reasons;

==============
Some do, and some just don't like meat, just like some don't like carrots...



and (2) for philosophical/ecological reasons.
==================
No. It's a pretense. At least for those here on usenet trying to brag
about their so-called acheivements.

The
> first is a good start; the second is more nobel.

=====================
Why? It is far too easy to show that eating only certain veggies can come
at a much higher cost in animals death and suffering and much more
environmental damage. Why do you take a leap of faith that just by eating
veggies categorically means you cause less of the above? Religion? Seems
that veganism is just that. It's all based on faith, and smoke and
mirrors. All you really have is a simple rule for simple minds, 'eat no
meat.'



So if people
> complain about the foods they miss, isn't it accurate to say they're
> still in the (1) area? If they had a deep concern about animals and
> the planet, their tastes would become informed by their philosophy.

=====================
If they really had this 'deep concern about animals and the planet' they
wouldn't be here on usenet to begin with. Your diet has no more of an
impact on animals than the rest of your selfish, modern, convenience
oriented lifestyle, killer.

>
> T.F.
>
> ******************************************
> Vegetarian Bookstore - http://www.geocities.com/conniesunday/veg.html
> Animal Rights Law - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AnimalRightsLaw

===============
Animals have *NO* rights. You prove that you *know* that with each and
every inane post you make to usenet. Besides, maintaining websites causes
even more animal death and suffering and more environmental damage. ou
really don't see the hy[pocrisy and the irony of all this, do you?



> Animal Rights Arts - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AnimalRightsArts
> Vegetarian Musicians -
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VegetarianMusicians

===============
Yeah man, crank up them amps and kill a few more thousnads of animals and
destroy a few more yards of the earth!!! Encore, encore!!


>
> ******************************************




  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
LinuxSaves
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Tech_Fiddle wrote:

> Isn't it accurate to say that people turn veg*an for two reasons: (1)
> for health reasons; and (2) for philosophical/ecological reasons. The
> first is a good start; the second is more noble. So if people
> complain about the foods they miss, isn't it accurate to say they're
> still in the (1) area? If they had a deep concern about animals and
> the planet, their tastes would become informed by their philosophy.


For me, the decision was 100% ethical. I'm strongly animal
rights-oriented and realized one day that I could no longer claim to
love animals if I continued to eat them, or wear them, or otherwise
exploit them.

Personally, I don't "miss" any foods, although lots of non-veggie
friends/relatives don't understand how that's possible. I guess that
back in the very beginning (the late '80s), when I really had no clue
WHAT I was going to eat after abruptly (overnight) turning vegetarian, I
probably did miss some things. But that was more of a knee-jerk
reaction since I had suddenly turned my whole eating/grocery
shopping/cooking world upside down.

--

Vegetarian/animal rights products: www.cafepress.com/saproducts/227981
1000 reasons NOT to vote for Bush: www.thousandreasons.org/listB.html
Bush or chimp? See the similarities!: www.bushorchimp.com/pics.html
Dogs hate Shrub, too: www.dogshatebush.com
  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"LinuxSaves" > wrote in message
k.net...
> Tech_Fiddle wrote:
>
>> Isn't it accurate to say that people turn veg*an for two reasons: (1)
>> for health reasons; and (2) for philosophical/ecological reasons. The
>> first is a good start; the second is more noble. So if people
>> complain about the foods they miss, isn't it accurate to say they're
>> still in the (1) area? If they had a deep concern about animals and
>> the planet, their tastes would become informed by their philosophy.

>
> For me, the decision was 100% ethical. I'm strongly animal
> rights-oriented and realized one day that I could no longer claim to love
> animals if I continued to eat them, or wear them, or otherwise exploit
> them.

==================
Yet here you proving that you ultimatly don't really care about animals.
You are here on usenet for entertainment. You are therefore contributing
the the very real, very inhumane, very horrible death and suffering of
animals because you like it. Nice try hypocrite, but your everyday
lifestyle puts your so-called ethics on the trash heap of lys, delusions,
and ignorance.



>
> Personally, I don't "miss" any foods, although lots of non-veggie
> friends/relatives don't understand how that's possible. I guess that back
> in the very beginning (the late '80s), when I really had no clue WHAT I
> was going to eat after abruptly (overnight) turning vegetarian, I probably
> did miss some things. But that was more of a knee-jerk reaction since I
> had suddenly turned my whole eating/grocery shopping/cooking world upside
> down.

====================
And, most probably caused the death and suffering of even more animals.
But then, as long as you don't see them on your plate they don't really
*count* as dead animals, do they killer? The veggies you buy cause far
more horrible, inhumane deaths than meat animals endure. Why is it ok for
them to die, and be left to rot, for your food? What types of veggies do
you avoid because of their kill more animals than other veggies? Oh,
haven't even tried to look into that, have you? Typical veg*n loon. All
you really have is a simple rule for your simple mind, 'eat no meat.' All
you really do is prove the deficiency of your religion. You prove that
animals do not have rights, and you prove that you don't believe yourself
that they do.

Keep up the good work in posting your hypocrisy, ignorance, and stupidity,
killer.



Now, go have that nice blood-drenched dinner, hypocrite.


>
> --
>
> Vegetarian/animal rights products: www.cafepress.com/saproducts/227981
> 1000 reasons NOT to vote for Bush: www.thousandreasons.org/listB.html
> Bush or chimp? See the similarities!: www.bushorchimp.com/pics.html
> Dogs hate Shrub, too: www.dogshatebush.com



  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
LinuxSaves
 
Posts: n/a
Default

rick etter wrote:

<< so much crap it just begs to be snipped >>

It's not often I come across a complete moron, but there you are!
Thanks for a much-needed really good laugh!!

--

Vegetarian/animal rights products: www.cafepress.com/saproducts/227981
1000 reasons NOT to vote for Bush: www.thousandreasons.org/listB.html
Bush or chimp? See the similarities!: www.bushorchimp.com/pics.html
Dogs hate Shrub, too: www.dogshatebush.com


  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
John Coleman
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Ricks behaviour is crazy, but his point is valid. Loads of animals do die in
the production of commercial vegetable foods. This is because of the use of
sprays, chemical fertilizers and heavy machinery. Of course, vegans do not
engage directly in these cruel activities, and would prefer nicer
alternatives. That is the bit Rick always misses out.

John

"LinuxSaves" > wrote in message
.net...
> rick etter wrote:
>
> << so much crap it just begs to be snipped >>
>
> It's not often I come across a complete moron, but there you are!
> Thanks for a much-needed really good laugh!!
>
> --
>
> Vegetarian/animal rights products: www.cafepress.com/saproducts/227981
> 1000 reasons NOT to vote for Bush: www.thousandreasons.org/listB.html
> Bush or chimp? See the similarities!: www.bushorchimp.com/pics.html
> Dogs hate Shrub, too: www.dogshatebush.com



  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
John Coleman
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Ricks behaviour is crazy, but his point is valid. Loads of animals do die in
the production of commercial vegetable foods. This is because of the use of
sprays, chemical fertilizers and heavy machinery. Of course, vegans do not
engage directly in these cruel activities, and would prefer nicer
alternatives. That is the bit Rick always misses out.

John

"LinuxSaves" > wrote in message
.net...
> rick etter wrote:
>
> << so much crap it just begs to be snipped >>
>
> It's not often I come across a complete moron, but there you are!
> Thanks for a much-needed really good laugh!!
>
> --
>
> Vegetarian/animal rights products: www.cafepress.com/saproducts/227981
> 1000 reasons NOT to vote for Bush: www.thousandreasons.org/listB.html
> Bush or chimp? See the similarities!: www.bushorchimp.com/pics.html
> Dogs hate Shrub, too: www.dogshatebush.com



  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"LinuxSaves" > wrote in message
.net...
> rick etter wrote:
>
> << so much crap it just begs to be snipped >>
>
> It's not often I come across a complete moron, but there you are! Thanks
> for a much-needed really good laugh!!

==================
I see, as usual you are afraid to discuss the issue of the death and
suffering you cause. Instaed, like all ggod vegan hate-filled loons, you
insist on focusing only on what you think others are doing.

Again, thanks for proving yet again that you cannot defend your position.



http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm
http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm
http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf
http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm
http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm
http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html
http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html
http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.htm



http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf
http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html
http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm
http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml
http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c
http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html
http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm
http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm
http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml
http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5
http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html


http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm

To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field,
here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there
can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field.
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs
/natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8
http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf
http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html


To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and
maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple
dealing with power and communications.
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html

>
> --
>
> Vegetarian/animal rights products: www.cafepress.com/saproducts/227981
> 1000 reasons NOT to vote for Bush: www.thousandreasons.org/listB.html
> Bush or chimp? See the similarities!: www.bushorchimp.com/pics.html
> Dogs hate Shrub, too: www.dogshatebush.com



  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"LinuxSaves" > wrote in message
.net...
> rick etter wrote:
>
> << so much crap it just begs to be snipped >>
>
> It's not often I come across a complete moron, but there you are! Thanks
> for a much-needed really good laugh!!

==================
I see, as usual you are afraid to discuss the issue of the death and
suffering you cause. Instaed, like all ggod vegan hate-filled loons, you
insist on focusing only on what you think others are doing.

Again, thanks for proving yet again that you cannot defend your position.



http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm
http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm
http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf
http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm
http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm
http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html
http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html
http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.htm



http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf
http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html
http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm
http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml
http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c
http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html
http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm
http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm
http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml
http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5
http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html


http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm

To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field,
here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there
can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field.
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs
/natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8
http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf
http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html


To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and
maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple
dealing with power and communications.
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html

>
> --
>
> Vegetarian/animal rights products: www.cafepress.com/saproducts/227981
> 1000 reasons NOT to vote for Bush: www.thousandreasons.org/listB.html
> Bush or chimp? See the similarities!: www.bushorchimp.com/pics.html
> Dogs hate Shrub, too: www.dogshatebush.com



  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"John Coleman" > wrote in message
...
> Ricks behaviour is crazy, but his point is valid. Loads of animals do die
> in
> the production of commercial vegetable foods. This is because of the use
> of
> sprays, chemical fertilizers and heavy machinery. Of course, vegans do not
> engage directly in these cruel activities,

=================
Hey, if that is all that is necessary to exclude yourself form all
responsibility, then you just excluded almost all meat eaters too. Very few
actually 'engae' directly in the slaughter of any animal. Guess we're just
as pure as the driven snow too, eh killer?


and would prefer nicer
> alternatives. That is the bit Rick always misses out.

=======================
No, I don't. The fact that you continue to live the modern,
consumer-driven lfestyle that you do indicates that you prefer no such
alternatives. You could make other choices, but you don't. Your
convenince comes first. By putting your conveninece first, veg*ns prove
over and over that animals *DO NOT* have any rights, and that they also know
that animals have no rights.






>
> John
>
> "LinuxSaves" > wrote in message
> .net...
>> rick etter wrote:
>>
>> << so much crap it just begs to be snipped >>
>>
>> It's not often I come across a complete moron, but there you are!
>> Thanks for a much-needed really good laugh!!
>>
>> --
>>
>> Vegetarian/animal rights products: www.cafepress.com/saproducts/227981
>> 1000 reasons NOT to vote for Bush: www.thousandreasons.org/listB.html
>> Bush or chimp? See the similarities!: www.bushorchimp.com/pics.html
>> Dogs hate Shrub, too: www.dogshatebush.com

>
>





  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"John Coleman" > wrote in message
...
> Ricks behaviour is crazy, but his point is valid. Loads of animals do die
> in
> the production of commercial vegetable foods. This is because of the use
> of
> sprays, chemical fertilizers and heavy machinery. Of course, vegans do not
> engage directly in these cruel activities,

=================
Hey, if that is all that is necessary to exclude yourself form all
responsibility, then you just excluded almost all meat eaters too. Very few
actually 'engae' directly in the slaughter of any animal. Guess we're just
as pure as the driven snow too, eh killer?


and would prefer nicer
> alternatives. That is the bit Rick always misses out.

=======================
No, I don't. The fact that you continue to live the modern,
consumer-driven lfestyle that you do indicates that you prefer no such
alternatives. You could make other choices, but you don't. Your
convenince comes first. By putting your conveninece first, veg*ns prove
over and over that animals *DO NOT* have any rights, and that they also know
that animals have no rights.






>
> John
>
> "LinuxSaves" > wrote in message
> .net...
>> rick etter wrote:
>>
>> << so much crap it just begs to be snipped >>
>>
>> It's not often I come across a complete moron, but there you are!
>> Thanks for a much-needed really good laugh!!
>>
>> --
>>
>> Vegetarian/animal rights products: www.cafepress.com/saproducts/227981
>> 1000 reasons NOT to vote for Bush: www.thousandreasons.org/listB.html
>> Bush or chimp? See the similarities!: www.bushorchimp.com/pics.html
>> Dogs hate Shrub, too: www.dogshatebush.com

>
>



  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Gideon Stargrave
 
Posts: n/a
Default

LinuxSaves wrote:
> rick etter wrote:
>
> << so much crap it just begs to be snipped >>
>
> It's not often I come across a complete moron, but there you are! Thanks
> for a much-needed really good laugh!!
>

rick does have good points, but, he apparently uses them to bash veg*ns
to justify his doing nothing. flat out, plain and simple, if you feel
you need to, and are doing *something* to reduce animal suffering by the
lifestyle, and food choices you make, you are moving in the right
direction. rick has obviously only had negative interactions with
people that make the veg*n choice, and therefore lashes out at us all.
his calling us murders, which he is right, it is almost completely
impossible to live in this world without contributing to the murder of
animals, takes the heat off of him. my feeling is, not that anyone else
needs to subscribe to it, as long as you are minimizing your imprint, on
the destruction of the earth, and the killing of animals, you are moving
in the best possible direction for mankind. as long as *some* of us
make these choices, our numbers will grow, and eventually we may
somehow, remove our imprint. just because it may take a long time, and
cannot be done 100% by any of us does not mean we shouldn't do it.

gideon
  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
ChodeMasterJ
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Gideon Stargrave > wrote in
:

> rick does have good points, but, he apparently uses them to bash
> veg*ns to justify his doing nothing. flat out, plain and simple, if
> you feel you need to, and are doing *something* to reduce animal
> suffering by the lifestyle, and food choices you make, you are moving
> in the right direction. rick has obviously only had negative
> interactions with people that make the veg*n choice, and therefore
> lashes out at us all. his calling us murders, which he is right, it is
> almost completely impossible to live in this world without
> contributing to the murder of animals, takes the heat off of him. my
> feeling is, not that anyone else needs to subscribe to it, as long as
> you are minimizing your imprint, on the destruction of the earth, and
> the killing of animals, you are moving in the best possible direction
> for mankind. as long as *some* of us make these choices, our numbers
> will grow, and eventually we may somehow, remove our imprint. just
> because it may take a long time, and cannot be done 100% by any of us
> does not mean we shouldn't do it.
>
> gideon


very well said.

James
  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Gideon Stargrave" > wrote in message
...
> LinuxSaves wrote:
>> rick etter wrote:
>>
>> << so much crap it just begs to be snipped >>
>>
>> It's not often I come across a complete moron, but there you are! Thanks
>> for a much-needed really good laugh!!
>>

> rick does have good points, but, he apparently uses them to bash veg*ns to
> justify his doing nothing. flat out, plain and simple, if you feel you
> need to, and are doing *something* to reduce animal suffering by the
> lifestyle, and food choices you make, you are moving in the right
> direction.

==================
ROTFLMAO That's the point, killer. Just "feeling" like you are doing
something is doing *nothing*. Like I said, this loser hasn't even thought
about which veggies cause more death and suffering than other veggies. She,
like you, "feels" that at long as you follow the simple rule for your simple
minds, 'eat no meat,' that you are automatically causing less harm. It
isn't the case, hypocrite.



rick has obviously only had negative interactions with
> people that make the veg*n choice, and therefore lashes out at us all.

================
I lash out at all hate-filled, delusion idiots. Which by the way, includes
all vegans here on usenet...


> his calling us murders,

================
No, I do not!! Unlike vegan idiots, do not mis-use the word. One cannot
'murder' an animal.


which he is right, it is almost completely
> impossible to live in this world without contributing to the murder of
> animals, takes the heat off of him.

======================
Continue to use emotive terms incorrectly is yet another hallmark of the
vegan religion. Since you cannot defend your ignorance, you have to rely on
emotions, not facts.


my feeling is, not that anyone else
> needs to subscribe to it, as long as you are minimizing your imprint, on
> the destruction of the earth, and the killing of animals, you are moving
> in the best possible direction for mankind.

===========================
And, in many cases that can be shown to be a meat-included diet. The fact
remains that your factory-farmed veggies are the definition of environmental
destruction, and the cause of millions upon millions of animal deaths.
There is no way out of those facts.


as long as *some* of us
> make these choices, our numbers will grow, and eventually we may somehow,
> remove our imprint. just because it may take a long time, and cannot be
> done 100% by any of us does not mean we shouldn't do it.

=====================
The problem for you remains the fact that your choices can quite possibly
result in more unnecessary death and suffering. But, you don't want to know
ant facts because that might queer your simple rule for your simple mind,
right killer?


>
> gideon



  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"ChodeMasterJ" > wrote in message
7.131...
> Gideon Stargrave > wrote in
> :
>
>> rick does have good points, but, he apparently uses them to bash
>> veg*ns to justify his doing nothing. flat out, plain and simple, if
>> you feel you need to, and are doing *something* to reduce animal
>> suffering by the lifestyle, and food choices you make, you are moving
>> in the right direction. rick has obviously only had negative
>> interactions with people that make the veg*n choice, and therefore
>> lashes out at us all. his calling us murders, which he is right, it is
>> almost completely impossible to live in this world without
>> contributing to the murder of animals, takes the heat off of him. my
>> feeling is, not that anyone else needs to subscribe to it, as long as
>> you are minimizing your imprint, on the destruction of the earth, and
>> the killing of animals, you are moving in the best possible direction
>> for mankind. as long as *some* of us make these choices, our numbers
>> will grow, and eventually we may somehow, remove our imprint. just
>> because it may take a long time, and cannot be done 100% by any of us
>> does not mean we shouldn't do it.
>>
>> gideon

>
> very well said.

==============
No, it was the typical vegan spew of lys, delusions, and ignorance.


>
> James





  #16 (permalink)   Report Post  
Gideon Stargrave
 
Posts: n/a
Default

rick etter wrote:
> "Gideon Stargrave" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>rick does have good points, but, he apparently uses them to bash veg*ns to
>>justify his doing nothing. flat out, plain and simple, if you feel you
>>need to, and are doing *something* to reduce animal suffering by the
>>lifestyle, and food choices you make, you are moving in the right
>>direction.

>
> ==================
> ROTFLMAO That's the point, killer. Just "feeling" like you are doing
> something is doing *nothing*. Like I said, this loser hasn't even thought
> about which veggies cause more death and suffering than other veggies. She,
> like you, "feels" that at long as you follow the simple rule for your simple
> minds, 'eat no meat,' that you are automatically causing less harm. It
> isn't the case, hypocrite.
>

i am not sure exactly why you think i have only one simple rule. i have
explained my eating habits in a thread that you slagged me in before.

>
> rick has obviously only had negative interactions with
>
>>people that make the veg*n choice, and therefore lashes out at us all.

>
> ================
> I lash out at all hate-filled, delusion idiots. Which by the way, includes
> all vegans here on usenet...
>

you do not know me well enough to judge that i am hate filled!

>
>>his calling us murders,

>
> ================
> No, I do not!! Unlike vegan idiots, do not mis-use the word. One cannot
> 'murder' an animal.


oh, i am sorry, you are right, you don't call us murderers, you call us
killers. i made a mistake.

> which he is right, it is almost completely
>
>>impossible to live in this world without contributing to the murder of
>>animals, takes the heat off of him.

>
> ======================
> Continue to use emotive terms incorrectly is yet another hallmark of the
> vegan religion. Since you cannot defend your ignorance, you have to rely on
> emotions, not facts.


again you don't know me well enough to call me ignorant. you will note
that i agreed with you're belief that nearly all diets, and modern
lifestyles contribute to the killing of innocent animals. so, if i am
ignorant, and yet agree with you're statements, then i suppose that does
note look good on you.

> my feeling is, not that anyone else
>
>>needs to subscribe to it, as long as you are minimizing your imprint, on
>>the destruction of the earth, and the killing of animals, you are moving
>>in the best possible direction for mankind.

>
> ===========================
> And, in many cases that can be shown to be a meat-included diet. The fact
> remains that your factory-farmed veggies are the definition of environmental
> destruction, and the cause of millions upon millions of animal deaths.
> There is no way out of those facts.


here is where i believe you are delusional. *all* animals diets
contribute to the death of other animals. we are just animals. as far
as i am concerned, the accidental deaths that come from my exclusively
organic, and vegan lifestyle are by no means as damaging to my psyche,
or the species psyche, or the environment of the planet as you imply!

>
> as long as *some* of us
>
>>make these choices, our numbers will grow, and eventually we may somehow,
>>remove our imprint. just because it may take a long time, and cannot be
>>done 100% by any of us does not mean we shouldn't do it.

>
> =====================
> The problem for you remains the fact that your choices can quite possibly
> result in more unnecessary death and suffering. But, you don't want to know
> ant facts because that might queer your simple rule for your simple mind,
> right killer?


excuse me, i know the facts, i understand that i live in a totalitarian
agricultural society, but i make the choices i make for myself, not you!
i kill less than you, plain and simple. don't forget, you are the
true hater here. you take it upon yourself watch a vegan usenet, not
being vegan yourself, and try to set us all straight! get over
yourself! make your choices, and i will make mine!
>
>
>>gideon

>
>
>

  #17 (permalink)   Report Post  
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Gideon Stargrave" > wrote in message
...
> rick etter wrote:
>> "Gideon Stargrave" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>rick does have good points, but, he apparently uses them to bash veg*ns
>>>to justify his doing nothing. flat out, plain and simple, if you feel
>>>you need to, and are doing *something* to reduce animal suffering by the
>>>lifestyle, and food choices you make, you are moving in the right
>>>direction.

>>
>> ==================
>> ROTFLMAO That's the point, killer. Just "feeling" like you are doing
>> something is doing *nothing*. Like I said, this loser hasn't even
>> thought about which veggies cause more death and suffering than other
>> veggies. She, like you, "feels" that at long as you follow the simple
>> rule for your simple minds, 'eat no meat,' that you are automatically
>> causing less harm. It isn't the case, hypocrite.
>>

> i am not sure exactly why you think i have only one simple rule. i have
> explained my eating habits in a thread that you slagged me in before.

=================
Yes, you have one rule, 'eat no meat.'


>
>>
>> rick has obviously only had negative interactions with
>>
>>>people that make the veg*n choice, and therefore lashes out at us all.

>>
>> ================
>> I lash out at all hate-filled, delusion idiots. Which by the way,
>> includes all vegans here on usenet...
>>

> you do not know me well enough to judge that i am hate filled!

===============
Yep. The vegan religion, and those that try to defend are all about hate.


>
>>
>>>his calling us murders,

>>
>> ================
>> No, I do not!! Unlike vegan idiots, do not mis-use the word. One
>> cannot 'murder' an animal.

>
> oh, i am sorry, you are right, you don't call us murderers, you call us
> killers. i made a mistake.

======================
Again, you're wrong. I don't call begans loons killers, I call everyone a
killer. Myself included. Too bad you can't seem to read any better than
before...


>
>> which he is right, it is almost completely
>>
>>>impossible to live in this world without contributing to the murder of
>>>animals, takes the heat off of him.

>>
>> ======================
>> Continue to use emotive terms incorrectly is yet another hallmark of the
>> vegan religion. Since you cannot defend your ignorance, you have to rely
>> on emotions, not facts.

>
> again you don't know me well enough to call me ignorant. you will note
> that i agreed with you're belief that nearly all diets, and modern
> lifestyles contribute to the killing of innocent animals. so, if i am
> ignorant, and yet agree with you're statements, then i suppose that does
> note look good on you.
>
>> my feeling is, not that anyone else
>>
>>>needs to subscribe to it, as long as you are minimizing your imprint, on
>>>the destruction of the earth, and the killing of animals, you are moving
>>>in the best possible direction for mankind.

>>
>> ===========================
>> And, in many cases that can be shown to be a meat-included diet. The
>> fact remains that your factory-farmed veggies are the definition of
>> environmental destruction, and the cause of millions upon millions of
>> animal deaths. There is no way out of those facts.

>
> here is where i believe you are delusional. *all* animals diets
> contribute to the death of other animals. we are just animals. as far as
> i am concerned, the accidental deaths that come from my exclusively
> organic, and vegan lifestyle are by no means as damaging to my psyche,

=================
LOL All about you, eh killer?


> or the species psyche, or the environment of the planet as you imply!

================
Yes, it is. Tell us how it isn't, if you can.


>
>>
>> as long as *some* of us
>>
>>>make these choices, our numbers will grow, and eventually we may somehow,
>>>remove our imprint. just because it may take a long time, and cannot be
>>>done 100% by any of us does not mean we shouldn't do it.

>>
>> =====================
>> The problem for you remains the fact that your choices can quite possibly
>> result in more unnecessary death and suffering. But, you don't want to
>> know ant facts because that might queer your simple rule for your simple
>> mind, right killer?

>
> excuse me, i know the facts, i understand that i live in a totalitarian
> agricultural society, but i make the choices i make for myself, not you! i
> kill less than you, plain and simple.

=====================
No, you don't. And you have yet to show how. Following only your simple
rule for your simple mind, 'eat no meat,' doesn't automatically make it so.

don't forget, you are the
> true hater here.

=================
Nope. I have never wished anyone dead, sick, or dying. Vegans have. I
have never gloated over any accidental deaths, vegans have. I have never
failed to condemn terrorism disguised as 'animal resue', vegans have. I
have never told anyone what they should/have to/must eat. Vegans have.

I'm here to expose the hate, ignorance and stupidity of vegans on usenet.
Are there 'real' vegans somewhere in the world truely doing 'all they can'
to save animals? I'm sure there are. The problem for you is that *none*
of them are here on usenet. That you fail to see the irony, and hypocrisy
of claiming to care so much about animals that you do all you can to
eliminate unnecessary animal death and suffering, and then spending your
entertainment hours and dollars on usenet is priceless....




you take it upon yourself watch a vegan usenet, not
> being vegan yourself, and try to set us all straight! get over yourself!
> make your choices, and i will make mine!

=================
I do, and so do you. All I'm here for is to set the lys and delusions of
veganism straight. To expose the idiocy for what it is, hypocrisy and
stupidity.


>>
>>
>>>gideon

>>
>>


  #18 (permalink)   Report Post  
John Coleman
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"rick etter" > wrote in message
link.net...
>
> "John Coleman" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Ricks behaviour is crazy, but his point is valid. Loads of animals do

die
> > in
> > the production of commercial vegetable foods. This is because of the use
> > of
> > sprays, chemical fertilizers and heavy machinery. Of course, vegans do

not
> > engage directly in these cruel activities,

> =================
> Hey, if that is all that is necessary to exclude yourself form all
> responsibility, then you just excluded almost all meat eaters too. Very

few
> actually 'engae' directly in the slaughter of any animal. Guess we're

just
> as pure as the driven snow too, eh killer?


That's a fair observation, but most meat eaters probably could not bring
themselves to kill their meal. In that there is internal inconsistency. Am I
happy that others may kill for my meal, no - is the meat eater glad to be
spared nocking out some lamb brains, yes he is very glad! I put up with the
bad in the world how it is, at least until I buy my liberty.

I've read a million farm animals die per hour in the USA, how many animals
die per hour in the orchards? Vegans can opt out of death based meals, meat
eaters cannot.

> and would prefer nicer
> > alternatives. That is the bit Rick always misses out.

> =======================
> No, I don't. The fact that you continue to live the modern,
> consumer-driven lfestyle that you do indicates that you prefer no such
> alternatives. You could make other choices, but you don't. Your


It's Veganism Rick, not Luditism. Veganism, animal rights and deep ecology
have thrived because of the internet technology. The ends justify the means.

John


  #19 (permalink)   Report Post  
John Coleman
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"rick etter" > wrote in message
link.net...
>
> "John Coleman" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Ricks behaviour is crazy, but his point is valid. Loads of animals do

die
> > in
> > the production of commercial vegetable foods. This is because of the use
> > of
> > sprays, chemical fertilizers and heavy machinery. Of course, vegans do

not
> > engage directly in these cruel activities,

> =================
> Hey, if that is all that is necessary to exclude yourself form all
> responsibility, then you just excluded almost all meat eaters too. Very

few
> actually 'engae' directly in the slaughter of any animal. Guess we're

just
> as pure as the driven snow too, eh killer?


That's a fair observation, but most meat eaters probably could not bring
themselves to kill their meal. In that there is internal inconsistency. Am I
happy that others may kill for my meal, no - is the meat eater glad to be
spared nocking out some lamb brains, yes he is very glad! I put up with the
bad in the world how it is, at least until I buy my liberty.

I've read a million farm animals die per hour in the USA, how many animals
die per hour in the orchards? Vegans can opt out of death based meals, meat
eaters cannot.

> and would prefer nicer
> > alternatives. That is the bit Rick always misses out.

> =======================
> No, I don't. The fact that you continue to live the modern,
> consumer-driven lfestyle that you do indicates that you prefer no such
> alternatives. You could make other choices, but you don't. Your


It's Veganism Rick, not Luditism. Veganism, animal rights and deep ecology
have thrived because of the internet technology. The ends justify the means.

John


  #20 (permalink)   Report Post  
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"John Coleman" > wrote in message
...
> "rick etter" > wrote in message
> link.net...
>>
>> "John Coleman" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Ricks behaviour is crazy, but his point is valid. Loads of animals do

> die
>> > in
>> > the production of commercial vegetable foods. This is because of the
>> > use
>> > of
>> > sprays, chemical fertilizers and heavy machinery. Of course, vegans do

> not
>> > engage directly in these cruel activities,

>> =================
>> Hey, if that is all that is necessary to exclude yourself form all
>> responsibility, then you just excluded almost all meat eaters too. Very

> few
>> actually 'engae' directly in the slaughter of any animal. Guess we're

> just
>> as pure as the driven snow too, eh killer?

>
> That's a fair observation, but most meat eaters probably could not bring
> themselves to kill their meal. In that there is internal inconsistency. Am
> I
> happy that others may kill for my meal, no - is the meat eater glad to be
> spared nocking out some lamb brains, yes he is very glad! I put up with
> the
> bad in the world how it is, at least until I buy my liberty.

=================
And purchase the death of animals... Nice exchange, at least for you, eh?


>
> I've read a million farm animals die per hour in the USA, how many animals
> die per hour in the orchards? Vegans can opt out of death based meals,
> meat
> eaters cannot.

==================
And it's quite easy to not participate in the deaths of those million
animals. I buy only local, grass-fed beef, and free-range chickens and
pork. It's a large and growing market. Purchase it wisely, and it is
cheaper than any store bought beef. The chicken tends to be somewhat
higher, but it depends on how many were being slaughtered. Those
grass-fed and free-range meats replace 100s 0f 1000s of calories you obtain
from factory-farmed veggies. Check any vegan site recipies, they are full
of exotic, imported foods. How do you figure that the production,
processing, transportation and storage of these foods does not cause more
animal death and suffering? So, what 'meals' have you opted out of? It
doesn't have to be meals anyway, just pick the right veggies. You don't,
you just pretend that the simple rule works.


>
>> and would prefer nicer
>> > alternatives. That is the bit Rick always misses out.

>> =======================
>> No, I don't. The fact that you continue to live the modern,
>> consumer-driven lfestyle that you do indicates that you prefer no such
>> alternatives. You could make other choices, but you don't. Your

>
> It's Veganism Rick, not Luditism. Veganism, animal rights and deep ecology
> have thrived because of the internet technology. The ends justify the
> means.

======================
ROTFLMAO The animals that are killed to provide you your internet
connection might not agree. Vegans claim to do all they can to eliminate
unnecessary animal death and suffering. Yet all they do is what 've been
saying, they follow only a simple rule for their simple minds, 'eat no
meat.' They make no distictions between the foods that they do eat,
despite the fact that there are meats that cause less death and suffering
than the equivilent veggies. They make no real choices that cause any
inconvenience. There is no need to be on usenet, you're here for your
pleasure. I suggest that if usenet vegans really wanted to save more
animals they would take up watching bull-fighting and drop their
connections. That way they would still get they blood-fix from animal death
and suffering, but at least it would be fewer.



>
> John
>
>



  #21 (permalink)   Report Post  
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"John Coleman" > wrote in message
...
> "rick etter" > wrote in message
> link.net...
>>
>> "John Coleman" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Ricks behaviour is crazy, but his point is valid. Loads of animals do

> die
>> > in
>> > the production of commercial vegetable foods. This is because of the
>> > use
>> > of
>> > sprays, chemical fertilizers and heavy machinery. Of course, vegans do

> not
>> > engage directly in these cruel activities,

>> =================
>> Hey, if that is all that is necessary to exclude yourself form all
>> responsibility, then you just excluded almost all meat eaters too. Very

> few
>> actually 'engae' directly in the slaughter of any animal. Guess we're

> just
>> as pure as the driven snow too, eh killer?

>
> That's a fair observation, but most meat eaters probably could not bring
> themselves to kill their meal. In that there is internal inconsistency. Am
> I
> happy that others may kill for my meal, no - is the meat eater glad to be
> spared nocking out some lamb brains, yes he is very glad! I put up with
> the
> bad in the world how it is, at least until I buy my liberty.

=================
And purchase the death of animals... Nice exchange, at least for you, eh?


>
> I've read a million farm animals die per hour in the USA, how many animals
> die per hour in the orchards? Vegans can opt out of death based meals,
> meat
> eaters cannot.

==================
And it's quite easy to not participate in the deaths of those million
animals. I buy only local, grass-fed beef, and free-range chickens and
pork. It's a large and growing market. Purchase it wisely, and it is
cheaper than any store bought beef. The chicken tends to be somewhat
higher, but it depends on how many were being slaughtered. Those
grass-fed and free-range meats replace 100s 0f 1000s of calories you obtain
from factory-farmed veggies. Check any vegan site recipies, they are full
of exotic, imported foods. How do you figure that the production,
processing, transportation and storage of these foods does not cause more
animal death and suffering? So, what 'meals' have you opted out of? It
doesn't have to be meals anyway, just pick the right veggies. You don't,
you just pretend that the simple rule works.


>
>> and would prefer nicer
>> > alternatives. That is the bit Rick always misses out.

>> =======================
>> No, I don't. The fact that you continue to live the modern,
>> consumer-driven lfestyle that you do indicates that you prefer no such
>> alternatives. You could make other choices, but you don't. Your

>
> It's Veganism Rick, not Luditism. Veganism, animal rights and deep ecology
> have thrived because of the internet technology. The ends justify the
> means.

======================
ROTFLMAO The animals that are killed to provide you your internet
connection might not agree. Vegans claim to do all they can to eliminate
unnecessary animal death and suffering. Yet all they do is what 've been
saying, they follow only a simple rule for their simple minds, 'eat no
meat.' They make no distictions between the foods that they do eat,
despite the fact that there are meats that cause less death and suffering
than the equivilent veggies. They make no real choices that cause any
inconvenience. There is no need to be on usenet, you're here for your
pleasure. I suggest that if usenet vegans really wanted to save more
animals they would take up watching bull-fighting and drop their
connections. That way they would still get they blood-fix from animal death
and suffering, but at least it would be fewer.



>
> John
>
>



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