Vegan (alt.food.vegan) This newsgroup exists to share ideas and issues of concern among vegans. We are always happy to share our recipes- perhaps especially with omnivores who are simply curious- or even better, accomodating a vegan guest for a meal!

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  #76 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 13-09-2004, 07:33 PM
BlueHeron
 
Posts: n/a
Default



rick etter wrote:

"BlueHeron" wrote in message
.. .


rick etter wrote:

snip

The one thing that you seem to keep forgetting Rick, is that language,
especially the English langauge, changes.
======================


Not and have any real meaning...


Not true, becasue the /meaning/ of the word changes for everyone.

A "hack" is no longer primarily someone who rides around aimlessly on a
horse, nor is it a prostitute. To some degree it is a poorly written
piece of work that gets the job done, and mostly it is a quick and dirty
piece of programming code. Yet, at one time, it had completely
different meaning.

A "geek" is no longer primarly someone who will eat anything (especially
live animals).

That is the nature of language.




Find a dictionary that puts ethics in to the word "vegan" and I will be
impressed. Most dictionaries give the dietary definition, and so that
is how many people us it.


=================
But, it is not a 'dietary' choice. It is, and alwasy will be a lifestylr
choice. Except of course by those that want the word but are too lazy to
actually live the lifestyle. You can change the definition all you want to
fit your lazyness, but the real meaning is as it was coined in the 40s.


Wrong. It has been, and currently is, a lifestyle choice. Will it
always be? I wouldn't presume to say, but I don't think so. There are
far too many people, at least here in Quebec, who adopt it for health
reasons, and don't care, or know, about the ethics behind it. Sure,
"stict-vegetarian" would be a better label, but most of them use
"vegetalien" which directly translates to "vegan".

Language and culture has started to corrupt the principles behind it.


I am afraid that you might just have to learn to deal with that.


====================
I have, that you make excuses for laziness is apparent...

snip

Vegan, as an adjective, describes four main things:

* People (who avoid all animal products)
* diets (exclusivly plant based)
* food (containing no animal products)
* products (containing no animal products)

I can't think of anything else to which we apply the word, but it's
always possible that I have missed something.

Now, as a noun, a vegan is a person who follows a vegan lifestyle.

From the Memorandum of Association of the British Vegan Society
(http://www.vegansociety.com/html/abo...memorandum.php), it breaks
the definition down in to two parts. The first part describes the
philosophy and ethics behind it, and the second part describes the
dietary terms:

"The word 'veganism' denotes a philosophy and way of living which
seeks to exclude — as far as is possible and practical — all forms of
exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other
purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of
animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, including humans
and the environment.

In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all
products derived wholly or partly from animals."

So, when I say "I practive a vegan diet", I am specifiying in terms that
are easy for people to understand what it is that I eat.

Considering that this is a newsgroup about the food, not the ethics, I
think that is pretty fair. What I do or do not do with the rest of it,
is frankly, non of your concern. But most of us are in a.f.v. for the
dietary aspect.

Cheers!

-- Blue

  #77 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 13-09-2004, 09:57 PM
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"BlueHeron" wrote in message
news


rick etter wrote:

"BlueHeron" wrote in message
.. .


rick etter wrote:

snip

The one thing that you seem to keep forgetting Rick, is that language,
especially the English langauge, changes.
======================


Not and have any real meaning...


Not true, becasue the /meaning/ of the word changes for everyone.

A "hack" is no longer primarily someone who rides around aimlessly on a
horse, nor is it a prostitute. To some degree it is a poorly written
piece of work that gets the job done, and mostly it is a quick and dirty
piece of programming code. Yet, at one time, it had completely
different meaning.

A "geek" is no longer primarly someone who will eat anything (especially
live animals).

That is the nature of language.




Find a dictionary that puts ethics in to the word "vegan" and I will be
impressed. Most dictionaries give the dietary definition, and so that
is how many people us it.


=================
But, it is not a 'dietary' choice. It is, and alwasy will be a

lifestylr
choice. Except of course by those that want the word but are too lazy

to
actually live the lifestyle. You can change the definition all you want

to
fit your lazyness, but the real meaning is as it was coined in the 40s.


Wrong. It has been, and currently is, a lifestyle choice. Will it
always be? I wouldn't presume to say, but I don't think so. There are
far too many people, at least here in Quebec, who adopt it for health
reasons, and don't care, or know, about the ethics behind it.

=================
Then they are not vegan, are they? There is already a perfectly good word
that describes that diet, vegetarian.




Sure,
"stict-vegetarian" would be a better label, but most of them use
"vegetalien" which directly translates to "vegan".

================
And they are wrong and lazy.



Language and culture has started to corrupt the principles behind it.

==============
Not if your truely believe you are a vegan.




I am afraid that you might just have to learn to deal with that.


====================
I have, that you make excuses for laziness is apparent...

snip

Vegan, as an adjective, describes four main things:

* People (who avoid all animal products)
* diets (exclusivly plant based)
* food (containing no animal products)
* products (containing no animal products)

I can't think of anything else to which we apply the word, but it's
always possible that I have missed something.

Now, as a noun, a vegan is a person who follows a vegan lifestyle.

From the Memorandum of Association of the British Vegan Society
(http://www.vegansociety.com/html/abo...memorandum.php), it breaks
the definition down in to two parts. The first part describes the
philosophy and ethics behind it, and the second part describes the
dietary terms:

"The word 'veganism' denotes a philosophy and way of living which
seeks to exclude — as far as is possible and practical — all forms of
exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other
purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of
animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, including humans
and the environment.

==============
Why did you snip this from the post I made? Again, there is no emphsis on
diet, is there? It's a lifestyle, just like I said...

Here, I'll restore what you dishonestly snipped out....

restore cuts

"...When we understand the origin of the term and the guiding principles
established by the founders of the vegan movement, we see that, although
inspired by vegetarianism, vegan living encompasses far more than one's
diet. In fact, to be a full member of the American Vegan Society, one must
not only be vegan in diet but must also exclude animal products from one's
clothing, cosmetics, toiletries, household goods and everyday commodities.
Contrary to popular belief, people who eliminate all animal-based foods from
their diet but who continue to wear non-vegan clothing or use non-vegan
products are not vegan..."
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...q=watson+vegan

"...Veganism is a way of living which excludes all forms of exploitation of,
and cruelty to, the animal kingdom, and includes a reverence for life. It
applies to the practice of living on the products of the plant kingdom to
the exclusion of flesh, fish, fowl, eggs, honey, animal milk and its
derivatives, and encourages the use of alternatives for all commodities
derived wholly or in part from animals ..."
http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm

"...veganism is a "way of life," and "a philosophy." Neither emphasizes diet
over other aspects of compassionate living, because in vegan practice no one
area is more significant than another; all are expected to be implemented
simultaneously..."
http://www.vegsource.com/jo/essays/namegame.htm



Now, you can pretend that dictionary versions are the 'truth', or you can
admit that veganism is "not" a diet...








In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all
products derived wholly or partly from animals."

So, when I say "I practive a vegan diet", I am specifiying in terms that
are easy for people to understand what it is that I eat.

Considering that this is a newsgroup about the food, not the ethics, I
think that is pretty fair. What I do or do not do with the rest of it,
is frankly, non of your concern. But most of us are in a.f.v. for the
dietary aspect.

=================
It's about *vegan*. Try to keep up, and not be so lazy, killer.



Cheers!

-- Blue



  #78 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 13-09-2004, 09:57 PM
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"BlueHeron" wrote in message
news


rick etter wrote:

"BlueHeron" wrote in message
.. .


rick etter wrote:

snip

The one thing that you seem to keep forgetting Rick, is that language,
especially the English langauge, changes.
======================


Not and have any real meaning...


Not true, becasue the /meaning/ of the word changes for everyone.

A "hack" is no longer primarily someone who rides around aimlessly on a
horse, nor is it a prostitute. To some degree it is a poorly written
piece of work that gets the job done, and mostly it is a quick and dirty
piece of programming code. Yet, at one time, it had completely
different meaning.

A "geek" is no longer primarly someone who will eat anything (especially
live animals).

That is the nature of language.




Find a dictionary that puts ethics in to the word "vegan" and I will be
impressed. Most dictionaries give the dietary definition, and so that
is how many people us it.


=================
But, it is not a 'dietary' choice. It is, and alwasy will be a

lifestylr
choice. Except of course by those that want the word but are too lazy

to
actually live the lifestyle. You can change the definition all you want

to
fit your lazyness, but the real meaning is as it was coined in the 40s.


Wrong. It has been, and currently is, a lifestyle choice. Will it
always be? I wouldn't presume to say, but I don't think so. There are
far too many people, at least here in Quebec, who adopt it for health
reasons, and don't care, or know, about the ethics behind it.

=================
Then they are not vegan, are they? There is already a perfectly good word
that describes that diet, vegetarian.




Sure,
"stict-vegetarian" would be a better label, but most of them use
"vegetalien" which directly translates to "vegan".

================
And they are wrong and lazy.



Language and culture has started to corrupt the principles behind it.

==============
Not if your truely believe you are a vegan.




I am afraid that you might just have to learn to deal with that.


====================
I have, that you make excuses for laziness is apparent...

snip

Vegan, as an adjective, describes four main things:

* People (who avoid all animal products)
* diets (exclusivly plant based)
* food (containing no animal products)
* products (containing no animal products)

I can't think of anything else to which we apply the word, but it's
always possible that I have missed something.

Now, as a noun, a vegan is a person who follows a vegan lifestyle.

From the Memorandum of Association of the British Vegan Society
(http://www.vegansociety.com/html/abo...memorandum.php), it breaks
the definition down in to two parts. The first part describes the
philosophy and ethics behind it, and the second part describes the
dietary terms:

"The word 'veganism' denotes a philosophy and way of living which
seeks to exclude — as far as is possible and practical — all forms of
exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other
purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of
animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, including humans
and the environment.

==============
Why did you snip this from the post I made? Again, there is no emphsis on
diet, is there? It's a lifestyle, just like I said...

Here, I'll restore what you dishonestly snipped out....

restore cuts

"...When we understand the origin of the term and the guiding principles
established by the founders of the vegan movement, we see that, although
inspired by vegetarianism, vegan living encompasses far more than one's
diet. In fact, to be a full member of the American Vegan Society, one must
not only be vegan in diet but must also exclude animal products from one's
clothing, cosmetics, toiletries, household goods and everyday commodities.
Contrary to popular belief, people who eliminate all animal-based foods from
their diet but who continue to wear non-vegan clothing or use non-vegan
products are not vegan..."
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...q=watson+vegan

"...Veganism is a way of living which excludes all forms of exploitation of,
and cruelty to, the animal kingdom, and includes a reverence for life. It
applies to the practice of living on the products of the plant kingdom to
the exclusion of flesh, fish, fowl, eggs, honey, animal milk and its
derivatives, and encourages the use of alternatives for all commodities
derived wholly or in part from animals ..."
http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm

"...veganism is a "way of life," and "a philosophy." Neither emphasizes diet
over other aspects of compassionate living, because in vegan practice no one
area is more significant than another; all are expected to be implemented
simultaneously..."
http://www.vegsource.com/jo/essays/namegame.htm



Now, you can pretend that dictionary versions are the 'truth', or you can
admit that veganism is "not" a diet...








In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all
products derived wholly or partly from animals."

So, when I say "I practive a vegan diet", I am specifiying in terms that
are easy for people to understand what it is that I eat.

Considering that this is a newsgroup about the food, not the ethics, I
think that is pretty fair. What I do or do not do with the rest of it,
is frankly, non of your concern. But most of us are in a.f.v. for the
dietary aspect.

=================
It's about *vegan*. Try to keep up, and not be so lazy, killer.



Cheers!

-- Blue



  #79 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 18-09-2004, 07:01 PM
Ron
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"rick etter" wrote in message .net...
"BlueHeron" wrote in message
news


rick etter wrote:

"BlueHeron" wrote in message
.. .


rick etter wrote:

snip

The one thing that you seem to keep forgetting Rick, is that language,
especially the English langauge, changes.
======================

Not and have any real meaning...


Not true, becasue the /meaning/ of the word changes for everyone.

A "hack" is no longer primarily someone who rides around aimlessly on a
horse, nor is it a prostitute. To some degree it is a poorly written
piece of work that gets the job done, and mostly it is a quick and dirty
piece of programming code. Yet, at one time, it had completely
different meaning.

A "geek" is no longer primarly someone who will eat anything (especially
live animals).

That is the nature of language.




Find a dictionary that puts ethics in to the word "vegan" and I will be
impressed. Most dictionaries give the dietary definition, and so that
is how many people us it.

=================
But, it is not a 'dietary' choice. It is, and alwasy will be a

lifestylr
choice. Except of course by those that want the word but are too lazy

to
actually live the lifestyle. You can change the definition all you want

to
fit your lazyness, but the real meaning is as it was coined in the 40s.


Wrong. It has been, and currently is, a lifestyle choice. Will it
always be? I wouldn't presume to say, but I don't think so. There are
far too many people, at least here in Quebec, who adopt it for health
reasons, and don't care, or know, about the ethics behind it.

=================
Then they are not vegan, are they? There is already a perfectly good word
that describes that diet, vegetarian.




Sure,
"stict-vegetarian" would be a better label, but most of them use
"vegetalien" which directly translates to "vegan".

================
And they are wrong and lazy.



Language and culture has started to corrupt the principles behind it.

==============
Not if your truely believe you are a vegan.




I am afraid that you might just have to learn to deal with that.

====================
I have, that you make excuses for laziness is apparent...

snip

Vegan, as an adjective, describes four main things:

* People (who avoid all animal products)
* diets (exclusivly plant based)
* food (containing no animal products)
* products (containing no animal products)

I can't think of anything else to which we apply the word, but it's
always possible that I have missed something.

Now, as a noun, a vegan is a person who follows a vegan lifestyle.

From the Memorandum of Association of the British Vegan Society
(http://www.vegansociety.com/html/abo...memorandum.php), it breaks
the definition down in to two parts. The first part describes the
philosophy and ethics behind it, and the second part describes the
dietary terms:

"The word 'veganism' denotes a philosophy and way of living which
seeks to exclude ? as far as is possible and practical ? all forms of
exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other
purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of
animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, including humans
and the environment.

==============
Why did you snip this from the post I made? Again, there is no emphsis on
diet, is there? It's a lifestyle, just like I said...

Here, I'll restore what you dishonestly snipped out....

restore cuts

"...When we understand the origin of the term and the guiding principles
established by the founders of the vegan movement, we see that, although
inspired by vegetarianism, vegan living encompasses far more than one's
diet. In fact, to be a full member of the American Vegan Society, one must
not only be vegan in diet but must also exclude animal products from one's
clothing, cosmetics, toiletries, household goods and everyday commodities.
Contrary to popular belief, people who eliminate all animal-based foods from
their diet but who continue to wear non-vegan clothing or use non-vegan
products are not vegan..."
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...q=watson+vegan

"...Veganism is a way of living which excludes all forms of exploitation of,
and cruelty to, the animal kingdom, and includes a reverence for life. It
applies to the practice of living on the products of the plant kingdom to
the exclusion of flesh, fish, fowl, eggs, honey, animal milk and its
derivatives, and encourages the use of alternatives for all commodities
derived wholly or in part from animals ..."
http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm

"...veganism is a "way of life," and "a philosophy." Neither emphasizes diet
over other aspects of compassionate living, because in vegan practice no one
area is more significant than another; all are expected to be implemented
simultaneously..."
http://www.vegsource.com/jo/essays/namegame.htm



Now, you can pretend that dictionary versions are the 'truth', or you can
admit that veganism is "not" a diet...








In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all
products derived wholly or partly from animals."

So, when I say "I practive a vegan diet", I am specifiying in terms that
are easy for people to understand what it is that I eat.

Considering that this is a newsgroup about the food, not the ethics, I
think that is pretty fair. What I do or do not do with the rest of it,
is frankly, non of your concern. But most of us are in a.f.v. for the
dietary aspect.

=================
It's about *vegan*. Try to keep up, and not be so lazy, killer.







Everyone listen to Etter!

He is the world authority on all things pertaining to veganism and ethics.

(he also buys cow udders)
..












Cheers!

-- Blue

  #80 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 18-09-2004, 07:01 PM
Ron
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"rick etter" wrote in message .net...
"BlueHeron" wrote in message
news


rick etter wrote:

"BlueHeron" wrote in message
.. .


rick etter wrote:

snip

The one thing that you seem to keep forgetting Rick, is that language,
especially the English langauge, changes.
======================

Not and have any real meaning...


Not true, becasue the /meaning/ of the word changes for everyone.

A "hack" is no longer primarily someone who rides around aimlessly on a
horse, nor is it a prostitute. To some degree it is a poorly written
piece of work that gets the job done, and mostly it is a quick and dirty
piece of programming code. Yet, at one time, it had completely
different meaning.

A "geek" is no longer primarly someone who will eat anything (especially
live animals).

That is the nature of language.




Find a dictionary that puts ethics in to the word "vegan" and I will be
impressed. Most dictionaries give the dietary definition, and so that
is how many people us it.

=================
But, it is not a 'dietary' choice. It is, and alwasy will be a

lifestylr
choice. Except of course by those that want the word but are too lazy

to
actually live the lifestyle. You can change the definition all you want

to
fit your lazyness, but the real meaning is as it was coined in the 40s.


Wrong. It has been, and currently is, a lifestyle choice. Will it
always be? I wouldn't presume to say, but I don't think so. There are
far too many people, at least here in Quebec, who adopt it for health
reasons, and don't care, or know, about the ethics behind it.

=================
Then they are not vegan, are they? There is already a perfectly good word
that describes that diet, vegetarian.




Sure,
"stict-vegetarian" would be a better label, but most of them use
"vegetalien" which directly translates to "vegan".

================
And they are wrong and lazy.



Language and culture has started to corrupt the principles behind it.

==============
Not if your truely believe you are a vegan.




I am afraid that you might just have to learn to deal with that.

====================
I have, that you make excuses for laziness is apparent...

snip

Vegan, as an adjective, describes four main things:

* People (who avoid all animal products)
* diets (exclusivly plant based)
* food (containing no animal products)
* products (containing no animal products)

I can't think of anything else to which we apply the word, but it's
always possible that I have missed something.

Now, as a noun, a vegan is a person who follows a vegan lifestyle.

From the Memorandum of Association of the British Vegan Society
(http://www.vegansociety.com/html/abo...memorandum.php), it breaks
the definition down in to two parts. The first part describes the
philosophy and ethics behind it, and the second part describes the
dietary terms:

"The word 'veganism' denotes a philosophy and way of living which
seeks to exclude ? as far as is possible and practical ? all forms of
exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other
purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of
animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, including humans
and the environment.

==============
Why did you snip this from the post I made? Again, there is no emphsis on
diet, is there? It's a lifestyle, just like I said...

Here, I'll restore what you dishonestly snipped out....

restore cuts

"...When we understand the origin of the term and the guiding principles
established by the founders of the vegan movement, we see that, although
inspired by vegetarianism, vegan living encompasses far more than one's
diet. In fact, to be a full member of the American Vegan Society, one must
not only be vegan in diet but must also exclude animal products from one's
clothing, cosmetics, toiletries, household goods and everyday commodities.
Contrary to popular belief, people who eliminate all animal-based foods from
their diet but who continue to wear non-vegan clothing or use non-vegan
products are not vegan..."
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...q=watson+vegan

"...Veganism is a way of living which excludes all forms of exploitation of,
and cruelty to, the animal kingdom, and includes a reverence for life. It
applies to the practice of living on the products of the plant kingdom to
the exclusion of flesh, fish, fowl, eggs, honey, animal milk and its
derivatives, and encourages the use of alternatives for all commodities
derived wholly or in part from animals ..."
http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm

"...veganism is a "way of life," and "a philosophy." Neither emphasizes diet
over other aspects of compassionate living, because in vegan practice no one
area is more significant than another; all are expected to be implemented
simultaneously..."
http://www.vegsource.com/jo/essays/namegame.htm



Now, you can pretend that dictionary versions are the 'truth', or you can
admit that veganism is "not" a diet...








In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all
products derived wholly or partly from animals."

So, when I say "I practive a vegan diet", I am specifiying in terms that
are easy for people to understand what it is that I eat.

Considering that this is a newsgroup about the food, not the ethics, I
think that is pretty fair. What I do or do not do with the rest of it,
is frankly, non of your concern. But most of us are in a.f.v. for the
dietary aspect.

=================
It's about *vegan*. Try to keep up, and not be so lazy, killer.







Everyone listen to Etter!

He is the world authority on all things pertaining to veganism and ethics.

(he also buys cow udders)
..












Cheers!

-- Blue



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