Vegan (alt.food.vegan) This newsgroup exists to share ideas and issues of concern among vegans. We are always happy to share our recipes- perhaps especially with omnivores who are simply curious- or even better, accomodating a vegan guest for a meal!

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 01-09-2004, 10:17 PM
John Coleman
 
Posts: n/a
Default "complete" protein myth circulates again

One of the prevailing myths of meat eating is again enjoying the rounds
amongst the alternative diet community. This is the "quality protein" idea,
whereby it is claimed that only animal proteins are "complete". These myths
seem to pass around in cycles because various outlets for dietary
information do not enforce any scientific credibility for the claims they
make. Specifically, such articles or claims do not provide any references or
credible background. In this article I provide references and numbers so
that anyone can check the validity of my claims for themselves.

The basis of the complete or ideal amino acid balance was originally an
animal experiment based on rats in which various proteins were fed to
weaning rats in order to observe which one produced the most rapid growth,
and was therefore considered "ideal". At the time egg was considered the
reference protein, because it produced the fastest growth. Obviously such
experiments say nothing about optimal human diet, or even what the ideal
source of protein is for humans.

So what are the facts? In 1997 I researched an article called "Protein -
Bionomic Nutrition", and read up on the latest protein research. The
findings of the research are as valid now as they were then. They involved
experiments using labelled amino acids. Protein is made from a variety of
amino acids, and it is the ratios of these that determine if a protein can
support human growth, and maintenance of lean body mass. When certain kinds
of a few foods are eaten as "staples", amino acid malnutrition can occur,
because the protein is not "complete". Only a few foods do not provide a
quality source of protein.

How were the standards set up? Labelled amino acids can be closely monitored
by researchers to determine how they are used by the body. Before this
technique evolved we also have population studies, and nitrogen balance
studies that examined how well children grow and develop on different diets,
and how the protein source affects growth and mantennance. In total, the
available evidence is conclusive beyond any reasonable doubt and is
published by such bodies as the World Health Organisation. Although the
methods vary, and the new techniques suggest that some amino acid
requirements may be higher than traditionally thought, in effect, things
have not changed much over decades and the whole topic is fairly
un-contraversial amongst the scientists in the field.

Anyone who talks of a need to eat animal products to obtain a "complete
protein" or a "quality protein" is simply talking bunk, and you will not
hear such claims from anyone with even a basic modern academic background in
nutrition. The table below identifies both the old, but still valid
requirements identified by the FAO/WHO and UNU in 1985, and some possible
new suggestions by later researchers.

As you can see beans, rice and even potatoes all provide "ideal" protein, in
fact they are abundant sources of essential amino acids. I have also
averaged the essential amino acid contents of various other food groups, and
ALL provide a source of "quality" protein on average. Unless one eats a diet
made up predominantly of a few certain kinds of food, one will almost
certainly allways get proteins of "good quality". The numbers prove this.
Essential amino acid patterns of protein (mg/g)

Food TRY THR ISO LEU LYS MET+CYS PHE+TYR VAL
-Old 5 9 13 18 15 17 18 13
-New 5 21 22 36 40 18 36 23

soy 13 49 44 74 61 27 83 46
azuki 10 34 49 84 75 20 83 51
potato 16 36 40 59 60 29 81 56
h-milk 16 48 57 97 70 40 101 53
c-milk 14 45 60 97 79 34 96 66
eggs 16 49 62 87 67 56 97 72
rice 11 44 39 72 39 44 94 61
wheat 12 29 53 78 25 30 101 49
oats 13 35 42 83 45 57 84 61

all beef 11 44 45 79 83 37 73 49
all fish 11 44 46 80 89 40 73 51
all nut/seed 17 38 44 76 44 39 90 57
all vegetables 11 38 43 66 55 25 71 49
all fruit 9 28 28 44 44 23 50 38
-"Old" Standard based on highest estimate of requirement to achieve NB
(reviewed by FAO/WHO/UNU 1985
-"Upper" Estimates calculated by equations from minimum oxidation losses by
Young et al. (1989).

Geoffrey Cannon, author of Food and Health: The Experts Agree, from the
Consumers' Association, also says that fruits yield "quality" protein.
Fruits also provide a quality source of protein, although they may not
contain enough protein in total to meet daily requirements even when large
amounts are consumed. Addings some seeds to the diet easily corrects for
this. Fruits providing a balanced protein source include avocado, banana,
figs, orange, persimmon, pineapple, watermelon, and others.

Why does the protein myth refuse to go away? My conclusion - people want
some pseudo scientific reason to justify their meat eating.


John Coleman
---

References:

'Recent advances in methods of assessing dietary amino acid requirements for
adult humans.',
Zello GA; Wykes LJ; Ball RO; Pencharz PB, J Nutr, 125: 12, 1995 Dec, 2907-15

'Kinetics of human amino acid metabolism: nutritional implications and some
lessons',
Young, VR, Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 46:709-725,1987 Pacy PJ, Price GM, Halliday D,
Quevedo MR and Millward DJ, Clin. Sci. Lond. 86:103-118, 1994

Geoffrey Cannon, Food and Health: The Experts Agree, Consumers' Association,
2 Marylebone Road, London NW1 4DF


___
The Bionomic Nutrition Forum
http://www.soalive.biz
FORUM_Digest also available
[unless otherwise noted, this text is free to use by non-profit
organisations]
unsubscribe by emailing the list server address
with the message text UNS FORUM





  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-09-2004, 01:45 AM
Steve
 
Posts: n/a
Default

John Coleman wrote:
Why does the protein myth refuse to go away?


Is it a myth? I heard that it is only unecessary to compliment proteins
at each meal, but you still want to compliment ( legumes + whole grains
-OR- legumes + seeds )each day.

My conclusion - people want
some pseudo scientific reason to justify their meat eating.


They could feel better eating protein complimented meals, maybe for
reasons unrelated to amino acid balance. I know I do. I tried it both
ways. I feel better when I have a legume food with a whole grain food.

I feel more full and have more energy.

Steve

--
Be A Healthy Vegan Or Vegetarian
http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdo...ealthyVeg.html

Steve's Home Page
http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdom/

"The great American thought trap: It is not real
unless it can be seen on television or bought in a
shopping mall"



  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-09-2004, 01:45 AM
Steve
 
Posts: n/a
Default

John Coleman wrote:
Why does the protein myth refuse to go away?


Is it a myth? I heard that it is only unecessary to compliment proteins
at each meal, but you still want to compliment ( legumes + whole grains
-OR- legumes + seeds )each day.

My conclusion - people want
some pseudo scientific reason to justify their meat eating.


They could feel better eating protein complimented meals, maybe for
reasons unrelated to amino acid balance. I know I do. I tried it both
ways. I feel better when I have a legume food with a whole grain food.

I feel more full and have more energy.

Steve

--
Be A Healthy Vegan Or Vegetarian
http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdo...ealthyVeg.html

Steve's Home Page
http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdom/

"The great American thought trap: It is not real
unless it can be seen on television or bought in a
shopping mall"



  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-09-2004, 07:08 PM
John Coleman
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Is it a myth? I heard that it is only unecessary to compliment proteins
at each meal, but you still want to compliment ( legumes + whole grains
-OR- legumes + seeds )each day.


If you or anyone has any credible science behind protein combining, or amino
acid insufficiencies then please post it. I've seen various scorings and
other such abstract concepts, but they don't seem meaningfull.

John



  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-09-2004, 07:08 PM
John Coleman
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Is it a myth? I heard that it is only unecessary to compliment proteins
at each meal, but you still want to compliment ( legumes + whole grains
-OR- legumes + seeds )each day.


If you or anyone has any credible science behind protein combining, or amino
acid insufficiencies then please post it. I've seen various scorings and
other such abstract concepts, but they don't seem meaningfull.

John





  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-09-2004, 07:29 PM
Steve
 
Posts: n/a
Default

John Coleman wrote:
Is it a myth? I heard that it is only unecessary to compliment proteins
at each meal, but you still want to compliment ( legumes + whole grains
-OR- legumes + seeds )each day.



If you or anyone has any credible science behind protein combining, or amino
acid insufficiencies then please post it. I've seen various scorings and
other such abstract concepts, but they don't seem meaningfull.

John


Too many veg*ns don't bother with their diets enough to get a variety of
amino acids.

If you have proof that complimenting isn't necessary at all ( not just
it being unecessary at the individual meal level ) I wouldn't mind
seeing that.

Steve
http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdom/

"The great American thought trap: It is not real unless it can be seen
on television or bought in a shopping mall"

Be a healthy Vegan or Vegetarian
http://geocities.com/beforewisdom/Veg/healthyVeg.html
  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-09-2004, 07:29 PM
Steve
 
Posts: n/a
Default

John Coleman wrote:
Is it a myth? I heard that it is only unecessary to compliment proteins
at each meal, but you still want to compliment ( legumes + whole grains
-OR- legumes + seeds )each day.



If you or anyone has any credible science behind protein combining, or amino
acid insufficiencies then please post it. I've seen various scorings and
other such abstract concepts, but they don't seem meaningfull.

John


Too many veg*ns don't bother with their diets enough to get a variety of
amino acids.

If you have proof that complimenting isn't necessary at all ( not just
it being unecessary at the individual meal level ) I wouldn't mind
seeing that.

Steve
http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdom/

"The great American thought trap: It is not real unless it can be seen
on television or bought in a shopping mall"

Be a healthy Vegan or Vegetarian
http://geocities.com/beforewisdom/Veg/healthyVeg.html
  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-09-2004, 07:54 AM
John Coleman
 
Posts: n/a
Default


If you have proof that complimenting isn't necessary at all ( not just
it being unecessary at the individual meal level ) I wouldn't mind
seeing that.


that was posted in the original message

John


  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-09-2004, 07:54 AM
John Coleman
 
Posts: n/a
Default


If you have proof that complimenting isn't necessary at all ( not just
it being unecessary at the individual meal level ) I wouldn't mind
seeing that.


that was posted in the original message

John




Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
$3.00 meal for 3 people that has complete protein Manda Ruby General Cooking 54 06-11-2009 12:36 AM
Protein source for breakfast other than eggs, meat, or protein powder amandaF General Cooking 177 09-03-2009 07:33 PM
Plant Protein vs Animal Protein [email protected] Vegan 2 09-01-2005 05:32 AM
Getting a Complete protein? RB Vegan 37 06-10-2004 11:18 PM
Getting a Complete protein? cde Vegan 2 30-09-2004 10:24 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:34 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2019 FoodBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Food and drink"

 

Copyright © 2017