Vegan (alt.food.vegan) This newsgroup exists to share ideas and issues of concern among vegans. We are always happy to share our recipes- perhaps especially with omnivores who are simply curious- or even better, accomodating a vegan guest for a meal!

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #76 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 22-05-2004, 04:04 PM
Laurie
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ignorant little rickky-boy


"rick etter" wrote in message
hlink.net...

Knock off the bullshit. B12 is available in grasses that are grown in
a manured environment. That means WHEAT you idiot. It was proven to
the government of Canada by a researcher. Also B12 was originally
discovered in Canada in wheat, which just happens to be a grass.

==========================

re And you have provided your evedence where? When? that's right, never!
re What a fool.

Evedence? [sic] Maybe you should learn how to spell before making
idiotic claims in public?? Who, indeed, is the fool?
Here is evidence of B-12 IN plant material.
=====

Mozafar, A.
Enrichment of some B-vitamins in plants with application of organic
fertilizers.
Plant and Soil 167:305-311, 1994.
Organic food suppliers often claim that organic foods grown on soils with
natural fertilizers have a better nutritional value than foods grown with
inorganic fertilizers. Although past studies, such as those published by
Gray and Daniel in 1959 or by Leclerc and colleagues in 1991, have shown
that organically grown produce had more vitamins, it was unclear if the
plants synthesized them or got them from the soil. In order to test the
origins of vitamins in plants, this researcher selected vitamin B12 for
study. This was because plants cannot manufacture it but microorganisms can.
In addition, large amounts of B12 are found in animal manure, a commonly
used organic fertilizer. This study looked at whether plants, specifically
soybeans, barley, and spinach, grown on soils amended with pure B12 or B12
in manure would have a higher B12 content than plants grown with inorganic
fertilizers. All plants contained a minimal amount of B12 in the
inorganically fertilized soil. Barley showed a threefold increase of B12 in
the harvested grain in both the pure B12 treatment (10.8 ng/g dry weight)
and the manure treatment (9.1 ng/g dry weight). In spinach leaves, B12
increased twofold in the manure treatment (17.8 ng/g dry weight) and 34-fold
in the pure B12 treatment (235 ng/g dry weight). Soybeans had a similar, but
not as dramatic trend. In addition, soil samples in fields receiving manure
over several years contained more B12 than those only receiving inorganic
fertilizers. These results show that B12 levels can be increased in
organically grown food through the use of manure fertilizers. This is good
news for vegetarians, who often have trouble getting enough B12 in their
diets. It is also good news for consumers who buy organic food because of
its better nutritional value. While this preliminary trial does seem to
indicate that vitamins can be absorbed from the soil, more studies should be
done with other vitamins to confirm these observations.

=====

So, the whole veg*n/B-12 issue is caused by TOXIC CHEMICAL AGRICULTURE
which kills the microorganisms in the soil that produce the B-12 that
normally would be absorbed into the plants. The simple and inexpensive
solution would be supplements, and given the horrifically-poor quality of
commercial produce a vigorous supplementation program should be seriously
considered by anyone who eats.

Laurie





  #77 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 22-05-2004, 05:52 PM
Laurie
 
Posts: n/a
Default usual suspect and rick etter


"Wilson Woods" wrote in message
link.net...

lf here pointing out that since there is no objective ethical
standard,

Prove it, liar.

Proving the null hypothesis is impossible, but why don't YOU "prove"
that there IS an objective ethical standard?? What is it?
You can't even try, noBalls.

Laurie


  #78 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 23-05-2004, 02:12 AM
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ignorant little rickky-boy


"Laurie" wrote in message
...

"rick etter" wrote in message
hlink.net...

Knock off the bullshit. B12 is available in grasses that are grown in
a manured environment. That means WHEAT you idiot. It was proven to
the government of Canada by a researcher. Also B12 was originally
discovered in Canada in wheat, which just happens to be a grass.

==========================

re And you have provided your evedence where? When? that's right,

never!
re What a fool.


I notice you had to snip, wihout annotation, the references I gave to
support my contention that plants are not reliable sources of B12. Why did
you do that, lying-larry? Dishonesty, or just plain stupidity? Here, I'll
add it back for you, killer:

========================
here's a veg site that will tell you different fool.
http://www.ivu.org/congress/2002/texts/b12.html

"...Vegan sources of B12
Claimed sources include:

a.. Tempeh (no effect)
b.. Nori (adverse effect if dried; neutral effect if raw)
c.. Spirulina (probable adverse effect)
d.. Klamath lake algae (no demonstrated or likely effect)
e.. Barley or wheat grass (no demonstrated or likely effect)
f.. Gut bacteria (no effect)
g.. Organic vegetables (no or minimal effect)
h.. Mushrooms (no or minimal effect)
i.. Dirt (little effect)
j.. Warm washed carrots (not a chance)
k.. Raw vs cooked food (no effect)
Practical sources include;

a.. Fortified foods
b.. Supplements ..."
as an added bonus on this site there is this little tidbit of info:
"...Overall outcome: lacto-vegetarians, fish-eaters and occasional
meat-eaters can expect to live about two years longer than vegans. ..."

And remember, this was from a veg site, killer. What a hoot!!!
=======================




Evedence? [sic] Maybe you should learn how to spell before making
idiotic claims in public?? Who, indeed, is the fool?

================
I see, as usual, you have nothing, so you have to resort to on-line spell
checker status...



Here is evidence of B-12 IN plant material.

==============
Again, not in quantities that will make a difference in your diet.

=====

Mozafar, A.
Enrichment of some B-vitamins in plants with application of organic
fertilizers.
Plant and Soil 167:305-311, 1994.
Organic food suppliers often claim that organic foods grown on soils

with
natural fertilizers have a better nutritional value than foods grown with
inorganic fertilizers. Although past studies, such as those published by
Gray and Daniel in 1959 or by Leclerc and colleagues in 1991, have shown
that organically grown produce had more vitamins, it was unclear if the
plants synthesized them or got them from the soil. In order to test the
origins of vitamins in plants, this researcher selected vitamin B12 for
study. This was because plants cannot manufacture it but microorganisms

can.
In addition, large amounts of B12 are found in animal manure, a commonly
used organic fertilizer. This study looked at whether plants, specifically
soybeans, barley, and spinach, grown on soils amended with pure B12 or B12
in manure would have a higher B12 content than plants grown with inorganic
fertilizers. All plants contained a minimal amount of B12 in the
inorganically fertilized soil. Barley showed a threefold increase of B12

in
the harvested grain in both the pure B12 treatment (10.8 ng/g dry weight)
and the manure treatment (9.1 ng/g dry weight). In spinach leaves, B12
increased twofold in the manure treatment (17.8 ng/g dry weight) and

34-fold
in the pure B12 treatment (235 ng/g dry weight). Soybeans had a similar,

but
not as dramatic trend. In addition, soil samples in fields receiving

manure
over several years contained more B12 than those only receiving inorganic
fertilizers. These results show that B12 levels can be increased in
organically grown food through the use of manure fertilizers. This is good
news for vegetarians, who often have trouble getting enough B12 in their
diets. It is also good news for consumers who buy organic food because of
its better nutritional value. While this preliminary trial does seem to
indicate that vitamins can be absorbed from the soil, more studies should

be
done with other vitamins to confirm these observations.

=====

LOL What a hoot. Again, there is no reliable source of b12 from plants.
Now, if you want to eat several pounds of spinach a day, every day, be my
quest. Most people, even the loons like you prefer more variety.(hence the
vast import food production you pay for)





So, the whole veg*n/B-12 issue is caused by TOXIC CHEMICAL AGRICULTURE
which kills the microorganisms in the soil that produce the B-12 that
normally would be absorbed into the plants. The simple and inexpensive
solution would be supplements, and given the horrifically-poor quality of
commercial produce a vigorous supplementation program should be seriously
considered by anyone who eats.]

==================
And again, the supplements are not 'vegan' by definition. Animals die to
manufacture, package, and transport those little pills to your plate,
killer.

Here's another little gem for you, lying-larry...
"...more than 23 cups of organically grown spinach would have to be eaten
every day in order to meet the adult RDA for vitamin B12..."
http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/b12.htm

Again, this is a veg site, stupid. Not something like your money scam
parade of idiocy...




Laurie






  #79 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 25-05-2004, 09:00 PM
Ron
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ignorant little rickky-boy

"rick etter" wrote in message link.net...
"Laurie" wrote in message
...

"rick etter" wrote in message
hlink.net...

Knock off the bullshit. B12 is available in grasses that are grown in
a manured environment. That means WHEAT you idiot. It was proven to
the government of Canada by a researcher. Also B12 was originally
discovered in Canada in wheat, which just happens to be a grass.
==========================

re And you have provided your evedence where? When? that's right,

never!
re What a fool.


I notice you had to snip, wihout annotation, the references I gave to
support my contention that plants are not reliable sources of B12. Why did
you do that, lying-larry? Dishonesty, or just plain stupidity? Here, I'll
add it back for you, killer:

========================
here's a veg site that will tell you different fool.
http://www.ivu.org/congress/2002/texts/b12.html

"...Vegan sources of B12
Claimed sources include:

a.. Tempeh (no effect)
b.. Nori (adverse effect if dried; neutral effect if raw)
c.. Spirulina (probable adverse effect)
d.. Klamath lake algae (no demonstrated or likely effect)
e.. Barley or wheat grass (no demonstrated or likely effect)
f.. Gut bacteria (no effect)
g.. Organic vegetables (no or minimal effect)
h.. Mushrooms (no or minimal effect)
i.. Dirt (little effect)
j.. Warm washed carrots (not a chance)
k.. Raw vs cooked food (no effect)
Practical sources include;

a.. Fortified foods
b.. Supplements ..."
as an added bonus on this site there is this little tidbit of info:
"...Overall outcome: lacto-vegetarians, fish-eaters and occasional
meat-eaters can expect to live about two years longer than vegans. ..."

And remember, this was from a veg site, killer. What a hoot!!!
=======================




Evedence? [sic] Maybe you should learn how to spell before making
idiotic claims in public?? Who, indeed, is the fool?

================
I see, as usual, you have nothing, so you have to resort to on-line spell
checker status...



Here is evidence of B-12 IN plant material.

==============
Again, not in quantities that will make a difference in your diet.

=====

Mozafar, A.
Enrichment of some B-vitamins in plants with application of organic
fertilizers.
Plant and Soil 167:305-311, 1994.
Organic food suppliers often claim that organic foods grown on soils

with
natural fertilizers have a better nutritional value than foods grown with
inorganic fertilizers. Although past studies, such as those published by
Gray and Daniel in 1959 or by Leclerc and colleagues in 1991, have shown
that organically grown produce had more vitamins, it was unclear if the
plants synthesized them or got them from the soil. In order to test the
origins of vitamins in plants, this researcher selected vitamin B12 for
study. This was because plants cannot manufacture it but microorganisms

can.
In addition, large amounts of B12 are found in animal manure, a commonly
used organic fertilizer. This study looked at whether plants, specifically
soybeans, barley, and spinach, grown on soils amended with pure B12 or B12
in manure would have a higher B12 content than plants grown with inorganic
fertilizers. All plants contained a minimal amount of B12 in the
inorganically fertilized soil. Barley showed a threefold increase of B12

in
the harvested grain in both the pure B12 treatment (10.8 ng/g dry weight)
and the manure treatment (9.1 ng/g dry weight). In spinach leaves, B12
increased twofold in the manure treatment (17.8 ng/g dry weight) and

34-fold
in the pure B12 treatment (235 ng/g dry weight). Soybeans had a similar,

but
not as dramatic trend. In addition, soil samples in fields receiving

manure
over several years contained more B12 than those only receiving inorganic
fertilizers. These results show that B12 levels can be increased in
organically grown food through the use of manure fertilizers. This is good
news for vegetarians, who often have trouble getting enough B12 in their
diets. It is also good news for consumers who buy organic food because of
its better nutritional value. While this preliminary trial does seem to
indicate that vitamins can be absorbed from the soil, more studies should

be
done with other vitamins to confirm these observations.

=====

LOL What a hoot. Again, there is no reliable source of b12 from plants.
Now, if you want to eat several pounds of spinach a day, every day, be my
quest. Most people, even the loons like you prefer more variety.(hence the
vast import food production you pay for)





So, the whole veg*n/B-12 issue is caused by TOXIC CHEMICAL AGRICULTURE
which kills the microorganisms in the soil that produce the B-12 that
normally would be absorbed into the plants. The simple and inexpensive
solution would be supplements, and given the horrifically-poor quality of
commercial produce a vigorous supplementation program should be seriously
considered by anyone who eats.]

==================
And again, the supplements are not 'vegan' by definition. Animals die to
manufacture, package, and transport those little pills to your plate,
killer.

Here's another little gem for you, lying-larry...
"...more than 23 cups of organically grown spinach would have to be eaten
every day in order to meet the adult RDA for vitamin B12..."
http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/b12.htm

Again, this is a veg site, stupid. Not something like your money scam
parade of idiocy...





*ANYBODY* including the animal food industry can put up a "veg" site stupid pEtter.










Laurie

  #80 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 25-05-2004, 09:41 PM
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ignorant little rickky-boy


"Ron" wrote in message
om...
"rick etter" wrote in message

link.net...
"Laurie" wrote in message
...

"rick etter" wrote in message
hlink.net...

Knock off the bullshit. B12 is available in grasses that are grown

in
a manured environment. That means WHEAT you idiot. It was proven

to
the government of Canada by a researcher. Also B12 was originally
discovered in Canada in wheat, which just happens to be a grass.
==========================
re And you have provided your evedence where? When? that's right,

never!
re What a fool.


I notice you had to snip, wihout annotation, the references I gave to
support my contention that plants are not reliable sources of B12. Why

did
you do that, lying-larry? Dishonesty, or just plain stupidity? Here,

I'll
add it back for you, killer:

========================
here's a veg site that will tell you different fool.
http://www.ivu.org/congress/2002/texts/b12.html

"...Vegan sources of B12
Claimed sources include:

a.. Tempeh (no effect)
b.. Nori (adverse effect if dried; neutral effect if raw)
c.. Spirulina (probable adverse effect)
d.. Klamath lake algae (no demonstrated or likely effect)
e.. Barley or wheat grass (no demonstrated or likely effect)
f.. Gut bacteria (no effect)
g.. Organic vegetables (no or minimal effect)
h.. Mushrooms (no or minimal effect)
i.. Dirt (little effect)
j.. Warm washed carrots (not a chance)
k.. Raw vs cooked food (no effect)
Practical sources include;

a.. Fortified foods
b.. Supplements ..."
as an added bonus on this site there is this little tidbit of info:
"...Overall outcome: lacto-vegetarians, fish-eaters and occasional
meat-eaters can expect to live about two years longer than vegans. ..."

And remember, this was from a veg site, killer. What a hoot!!!
=======================




Evedence? [sic] Maybe you should learn how to spell before making
idiotic claims in public?? Who, indeed, is the fool?

================
I see, as usual, you have nothing, so you have to resort to on-line

spell
checker status...



Here is evidence of B-12 IN plant material.

==============
Again, not in quantities that will make a difference in your diet.

=====

Mozafar, A.
Enrichment of some B-vitamins in plants with application of organic
fertilizers.
Plant and Soil 167:305-311, 1994.
Organic food suppliers often claim that organic foods grown on soils

with
natural fertilizers have a better nutritional value than foods grown

with
inorganic fertilizers. Although past studies, such as those published

by
Gray and Daniel in 1959 or by Leclerc and colleagues in 1991, have

shown
that organically grown produce had more vitamins, it was unclear if

the
plants synthesized them or got them from the soil. In order to test

the
origins of vitamins in plants, this researcher selected vitamin B12

for
study. This was because plants cannot manufacture it but

microorganisms
can.
In addition, large amounts of B12 are found in animal manure, a

commonly
used organic fertilizer. This study looked at whether plants,

specifically
soybeans, barley, and spinach, grown on soils amended with pure B12 or

B12
in manure would have a higher B12 content than plants grown with

inorganic
fertilizers. All plants contained a minimal amount of B12 in the
inorganically fertilized soil. Barley showed a threefold increase of

B12
in
the harvested grain in both the pure B12 treatment (10.8 ng/g dry

weight)
and the manure treatment (9.1 ng/g dry weight). In spinach leaves, B12
increased twofold in the manure treatment (17.8 ng/g dry weight) and

34-fold
in the pure B12 treatment (235 ng/g dry weight). Soybeans had a

similar,
but
not as dramatic trend. In addition, soil samples in fields receiving

manure
over several years contained more B12 than those only receiving

inorganic
fertilizers. These results show that B12 levels can be increased in
organically grown food through the use of manure fertilizers. This is

good
news for vegetarians, who often have trouble getting enough B12 in

their
diets. It is also good news for consumers who buy organic food because

of
its better nutritional value. While this preliminary trial does seem

to
indicate that vitamins can be absorbed from the soil, more studies

should
be
done with other vitamins to confirm these observations.

=====

LOL What a hoot. Again, there is no reliable source of b12 from

plants.
Now, if you want to eat several pounds of spinach a day, every day, be

my
quest. Most people, even the loons like you prefer more variety.(hence

the
vast import food production you pay for)





So, the whole veg*n/B-12 issue is caused by TOXIC CHEMICAL

AGRICULTURE
which kills the microorganisms in the soil that produce the B-12 that
normally would be absorbed into the plants. The simple and

inexpensive
solution would be supplements, and given the horrifically-poor quality

of
commercial produce a vigorous supplementation program should be

seriously
considered by anyone who eats.]

==================
And again, the supplements are not 'vegan' by definition. Animals die

to
manufacture, package, and transport those little pills to your plate,
killer.

Here's another little gem for you, lying-larry...
"...more than 23 cups of organically grown spinach would have to be

eaten
every day in order to meet the adult RDA for vitamin B12..."
http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/b12.htm

Again, this is a veg site, stupid. Not something like your money scam
parade of idiocy...





*ANYBODY* including the animal food industry can put up a "veg" site

stupid pEtter.

========================
You ignorant fool. Why not read the site first, before diplaying your
stupidity to the world. ooops, too late....








  #81 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 27-05-2004, 08:34 PM
Ron
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ignorant little rickky-boy

"rick etter" wrote in message link.net...
"Ron" wrote in message
om...
"rick etter" wrote in message

link.net...
"Laurie" wrote in message
...

"rick etter" wrote in message
hlink.net...

Knock off the bullshit. B12 is available in grasses that are grown

in
a manured environment. That means WHEAT you idiot. It was proven

to
the government of Canada by a researcher. Also B12 was originally
discovered in Canada in wheat, which just happens to be a grass.
==========================
re And you have provided your evedence where? When? that's right,

never!
re What a fool.

I notice you had to snip, wihout annotation, the references I gave to
support my contention that plants are not reliable sources of B12. Why

did
you do that, lying-larry? Dishonesty, or just plain stupidity? Here,

I'll
add it back for you, killer:

========================
here's a veg site that will tell you different fool.
http://www.ivu.org/congress/2002/texts/b12.html

"...Vegan sources of B12
Claimed sources include:

a.. Tempeh (no effect)
b.. Nori (adverse effect if dried; neutral effect if raw)
c.. Spirulina (probable adverse effect)
d.. Klamath lake algae (no demonstrated or likely effect)
e.. Barley or wheat grass (no demonstrated or likely effect)
f.. Gut bacteria (no effect)
g.. Organic vegetables (no or minimal effect)
h.. Mushrooms (no or minimal effect)
i.. Dirt (little effect)
j.. Warm washed carrots (not a chance)
k.. Raw vs cooked food (no effect)
Practical sources include;

a.. Fortified foods
b.. Supplements ..."
as an added bonus on this site there is this little tidbit of info:
"...Overall outcome: lacto-vegetarians, fish-eaters and occasional
meat-eaters can expect to live about two years longer than vegans. ..."

And remember, this was from a veg site, killer. What a hoot!!!
=======================




Evedence? [sic] Maybe you should learn how to spell before making
idiotic claims in public?? Who, indeed, is the fool?
================
I see, as usual, you have nothing, so you have to resort to on-line

spell
checker status...



Here is evidence of B-12 IN plant material.
==============
Again, not in quantities that will make a difference in your diet.

=====

Mozafar, A.
Enrichment of some B-vitamins in plants with application of organic
fertilizers.
Plant and Soil 167:305-311, 1994.
Organic food suppliers often claim that organic foods grown on soils

with
natural fertilizers have a better nutritional value than foods grown

with
inorganic fertilizers. Although past studies, such as those published

by
Gray and Daniel in 1959 or by Leclerc and colleagues in 1991, have

shown
that organically grown produce had more vitamins, it was unclear if

the
plants synthesized them or got them from the soil. In order to test

the
origins of vitamins in plants, this researcher selected vitamin B12

for
study. This was because plants cannot manufacture it but

microorganisms
can.
In addition, large amounts of B12 are found in animal manure, a

commonly
used organic fertilizer. This study looked at whether plants,

specifically
soybeans, barley, and spinach, grown on soils amended with pure B12 or

B12
in manure would have a higher B12 content than plants grown with

inorganic
fertilizers. All plants contained a minimal amount of B12 in the
inorganically fertilized soil. Barley showed a threefold increase of

B12
in
the harvested grain in both the pure B12 treatment (10.8 ng/g dry

weight)
and the manure treatment (9.1 ng/g dry weight). In spinach leaves, B12
increased twofold in the manure treatment (17.8 ng/g dry weight) and

34-fold
in the pure B12 treatment (235 ng/g dry weight). Soybeans had a

similar,
but
not as dramatic trend. In addition, soil samples in fields receiving

manure
over several years contained more B12 than those only receiving

inorganic
fertilizers. These results show that B12 levels can be increased in
organically grown food through the use of manure fertilizers. This is

good
news for vegetarians, who often have trouble getting enough B12 in

their
diets. It is also good news for consumers who buy organic food because

of
its better nutritional value. While this preliminary trial does seem

to
indicate that vitamins can be absorbed from the soil, more studies

should
be
done with other vitamins to confirm these observations.

=====
LOL What a hoot. Again, there is no reliable source of b12 from

plants.
Now, if you want to eat several pounds of spinach a day, every day, be

my
quest. Most people, even the loons like you prefer more variety.(hence

the
vast import food production you pay for)





So, the whole veg*n/B-12 issue is caused by TOXIC CHEMICAL

AGRICULTURE
which kills the microorganisms in the soil that produce the B-12 that
normally would be absorbed into the plants. The simple and

inexpensive
solution would be supplements, and given the horrifically-poor quality

of
commercial produce a vigorous supplementation program should be

seriously
considered by anyone who eats.]
==================
And again, the supplements are not 'vegan' by definition. Animals die

to
manufacture, package, and transport those little pills to your plate,
killer.

Here's another little gem for you, lying-larry...
"...more than 23 cups of organically grown spinach would have to be

eaten
every day in order to meet the adult RDA for vitamin B12..."
http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/b12.htm

Again, this is a veg site, stupid. Not something like your money scam
parade of idiocy...





*ANYBODY* including the animal food industry can put up a "veg" site

stupid pEtter.

========================
You ignorant fool. Why not read the site first, before diplaying your
stupidity to the world. ooops, too late....




I suppose you are going to pretend that the only source of Vitamin D
is through fortified "food"?


..
  #82 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 27-05-2004, 09:49 PM
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ignorant little rickky-boy


"Ron" wrote in message
om...
"rick etter" wrote in message

link.net...
"Ron" wrote in message
om...
"rick etter" wrote in message

link.net...
"Laurie" wrote in message
...

"rick etter" wrote in message
hlink.net...

Knock off the bullshit. B12 is available in grasses that are

grown
in
a manured environment. That means WHEAT you idiot. It was

proven
to
the government of Canada by a researcher. Also B12 was

originally
discovered in Canada in wheat, which just happens to be a

grass.
==========================
re And you have provided your evedence where? When? that's

right,
never!
re What a fool.

I notice you had to snip, wihout annotation, the references I gave

to
support my contention that plants are not reliable sources of B12.

Why
did
you do that, lying-larry? Dishonesty, or just plain stupidity?

Here,
I'll
add it back for you, killer:

========================
here's a veg site that will tell you different fool.
http://www.ivu.org/congress/2002/texts/b12.html

"...Vegan sources of B12
Claimed sources include:

a.. Tempeh (no effect)
b.. Nori (adverse effect if dried; neutral effect if raw)
c.. Spirulina (probable adverse effect)
d.. Klamath lake algae (no demonstrated or likely effect)
e.. Barley or wheat grass (no demonstrated or likely effect)
f.. Gut bacteria (no effect)
g.. Organic vegetables (no or minimal effect)
h.. Mushrooms (no or minimal effect)
i.. Dirt (little effect)
j.. Warm washed carrots (not a chance)
k.. Raw vs cooked food (no effect)
Practical sources include;

a.. Fortified foods
b.. Supplements ..."
as an added bonus on this site there is this little tidbit of info:
"...Overall outcome: lacto-vegetarians, fish-eaters and occasional
meat-eaters can expect to live about two years longer than vegans.

...."

And remember, this was from a veg site, killer. What a hoot!!!
=======================




Evedence? [sic] Maybe you should learn how to spell before

making
idiotic claims in public?? Who, indeed, is the fool?
================
I see, as usual, you have nothing, so you have to resort to on-line

spell
checker status...



Here is evidence of B-12 IN plant material.
==============
Again, not in quantities that will make a difference in your diet.

=====

Mozafar, A.
Enrichment of some B-vitamins in plants with application of

organic
fertilizers.
Plant and Soil 167:305-311, 1994.
Organic food suppliers often claim that organic foods grown on

soils
with
natural fertilizers have a better nutritional value than foods

grown
with
inorganic fertilizers. Although past studies, such as those

published
by
Gray and Daniel in 1959 or by Leclerc and colleagues in 1991, have

shown
that organically grown produce had more vitamins, it was unclear

if
the
plants synthesized them or got them from the soil. In order to

test
the
origins of vitamins in plants, this researcher selected vitamin

B12
for
study. This was because plants cannot manufacture it but

microorganisms
can.
In addition, large amounts of B12 are found in animal manure, a

commonly
used organic fertilizer. This study looked at whether plants,

specifically
soybeans, barley, and spinach, grown on soils amended with pure

B12 or
B12
in manure would have a higher B12 content than plants grown with

inorganic
fertilizers. All plants contained a minimal amount of B12 in the
inorganically fertilized soil. Barley showed a threefold increase

of
B12
in
the harvested grain in both the pure B12 treatment (10.8 ng/g dry

weight)
and the manure treatment (9.1 ng/g dry weight). In spinach leaves,

B12
increased twofold in the manure treatment (17.8 ng/g dry weight)

and
34-fold
in the pure B12 treatment (235 ng/g dry weight). Soybeans had a

similar,
but
not as dramatic trend. In addition, soil samples in fields

receiving
manure
over several years contained more B12 than those only receiving

inorganic
fertilizers. These results show that B12 levels can be increased

in
organically grown food through the use of manure fertilizers. This

is
good
news for vegetarians, who often have trouble getting enough B12 in

their
diets. It is also good news for consumers who buy organic food

because
of
its better nutritional value. While this preliminary trial does

seem
to
indicate that vitamins can be absorbed from the soil, more studies

should
be
done with other vitamins to confirm these observations.

=====
LOL What a hoot. Again, there is no reliable source of b12 from

plants.
Now, if you want to eat several pounds of spinach a day, every day,

be
my
quest. Most people, even the loons like you prefer more

variety.(hence
the
vast import food production you pay for)





So, the whole veg*n/B-12 issue is caused by TOXIC CHEMICAL

AGRICULTURE
which kills the microorganisms in the soil that produce the B-12

that
normally would be absorbed into the plants. The simple and

inexpensive
solution would be supplements, and given the horrifically-poor

quality
of
commercial produce a vigorous supplementation program should be

seriously
considered by anyone who eats.]
==================
And again, the supplements are not 'vegan' by definition. Animals

die
to
manufacture, package, and transport those little pills to your

plate,
killer.

Here's another little gem for you, lying-larry...
"...more than 23 cups of organically grown spinach would have to be

eaten
every day in order to meet the adult RDA for vitamin B12..."
http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/b12.htm

Again, this is a veg site, stupid. Not something like your money

scam
parade of idiocy...





*ANYBODY* including the animal food industry can put up a "veg" site

stupid pEtter.

========================
You ignorant fool. Why not read the site first, before diplaying your
stupidity to the world. ooops, too late....




I suppose you are going to pretend that the only source of Vitamin D
is through fortified "food"?

=========
I notice you are continuing your dodge. Good thing, you've already proven
how incrdibly stupid you are.
btw, in case your comprehension has diminished to that low a level, you
should notice that my discussion has been strickly about b12.
But then, strawmen are all you have left, aren't they killer.

Now, as to V-d, no, there are other sourcses besides fortified foods.,
cheese, butter, cream, fish, oysters eggs, liver and sun.
ummmm, seems to me only 'fortified' foods would be the thing for vegans, eh
fool?

http://www.nutristrategy.com/nutrition/vitamind.htm
http://health.allrefer.com/health/vi...d-sources.html


"...Vegan and vegetarian sources of vitamin D include fortified soymilk,
fortified rice milk, and some fortified breakfast cereals..."
http://vegweb.com/articles/monique-1013269869.shtml


looks like your stupidity shines through again, killer....


.



  #83 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 28-05-2004, 07:51 PM
Ron
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ignorant little rickky-boy

"rick etter" wrote in message link.net...
"Ron" wrote in message
om...
"rick etter" wrote in message

link.net...
"Ron" wrote in message
om...
"rick etter" wrote in message

link.net...
"Laurie" wrote in message
...

"rick etter" wrote in message
hlink.net...

Knock off the bullshit. B12 is available in grasses that are

grown
in
a manured environment. That means WHEAT you idiot. It was

proven
to
the government of Canada by a researcher. Also B12 was

originally
discovered in Canada in wheat, which just happens to be a

grass.
==========================
re And you have provided your evedence where? When? that's

right,
never!
re What a fool.

I notice you had to snip, wihout annotation, the references I gave

to
support my contention that plants are not reliable sources of B12.

Why
did
you do that, lying-larry? Dishonesty, or just plain stupidity?

Here,
I'll
add it back for you, killer:

========================
here's a veg site that will tell you different fool.
http://www.ivu.org/congress/2002/texts/b12.html

"...Vegan sources of B12
Claimed sources include:

a.. Tempeh (no effect)
b.. Nori (adverse effect if dried; neutral effect if raw)
c.. Spirulina (probable adverse effect)
d.. Klamath lake algae (no demonstrated or likely effect)
e.. Barley or wheat grass (no demonstrated or likely effect)
f.. Gut bacteria (no effect)
g.. Organic vegetables (no or minimal effect)
h.. Mushrooms (no or minimal effect)
i.. Dirt (little effect)
j.. Warm washed carrots (not a chance)
k.. Raw vs cooked food (no effect)
Practical sources include;

a.. Fortified foods
b.. Supplements ..."
as an added bonus on this site there is this little tidbit of info:
"...Overall outcome: lacto-vegetarians, fish-eaters and occasional
meat-eaters can expect to live about two years longer than vegans.

..."

And remember, this was from a veg site, killer. What a hoot!!!
=======================




Evedence? [sic] Maybe you should learn how to spell before

making
idiotic claims in public?? Who, indeed, is the fool?
================
I see, as usual, you have nothing, so you have to resort to on-line

spell
checker status...



Here is evidence of B-12 IN plant material.
==============
Again, not in quantities that will make a difference in your diet.

=====

Mozafar, A.
Enrichment of some B-vitamins in plants with application of

organic
fertilizers.
Plant and Soil 167:305-311, 1994.
Organic food suppliers often claim that organic foods grown on

soils
with
natural fertilizers have a better nutritional value than foods

grown
with
inorganic fertilizers. Although past studies, such as those

published
by
Gray and Daniel in 1959 or by Leclerc and colleagues in 1991, have

shown
that organically grown produce had more vitamins, it was unclear

if
the
plants synthesized them or got them from the soil. In order to

test
the
origins of vitamins in plants, this researcher selected vitamin

B12
for
study. This was because plants cannot manufacture it but
microorganisms
can.
In addition, large amounts of B12 are found in animal manure, a

commonly
used organic fertilizer. This study looked at whether plants,

specifically
soybeans, barley, and spinach, grown on soils amended with pure

B12 or
B12
in manure would have a higher B12 content than plants grown with

inorganic
fertilizers. All plants contained a minimal amount of B12 in the
inorganically fertilized soil. Barley showed a threefold increase

of
B12
in
the harvested grain in both the pure B12 treatment (10.8 ng/g dry

weight)
and the manure treatment (9.1 ng/g dry weight). In spinach leaves,

B12
increased twofold in the manure treatment (17.8 ng/g dry weight)

and
34-fold
in the pure B12 treatment (235 ng/g dry weight). Soybeans had a
similar,
but
not as dramatic trend. In addition, soil samples in fields

receiving
manure
over several years contained more B12 than those only receiving

inorganic
fertilizers. These results show that B12 levels can be increased

in
organically grown food through the use of manure fertilizers. This

is
good
news for vegetarians, who often have trouble getting enough B12 in

their
diets. It is also good news for consumers who buy organic food

because
of
its better nutritional value. While this preliminary trial does

seem
to
indicate that vitamins can be absorbed from the soil, more studies
should
be
done with other vitamins to confirm these observations.

=====
LOL What a hoot. Again, there is no reliable source of b12 from

plants.
Now, if you want to eat several pounds of spinach a day, every day,

be
my
quest. Most people, even the loons like you prefer more

variety.(hence
the
vast import food production you pay for)





So, the whole veg*n/B-12 issue is caused by TOXIC CHEMICAL

AGRICULTURE
which kills the microorganisms in the soil that produce the B-12

that
normally would be absorbed into the plants. The simple and

inexpensive
solution would be supplements, and given the horrifically-poor

quality
of
commercial produce a vigorous supplementation program should be

seriously
considered by anyone who eats.]
==================
And again, the supplements are not 'vegan' by definition. Animals

die
to
manufacture, package, and transport those little pills to your

plate,
killer.

Here's another little gem for you, lying-larry...
"...more than 23 cups of organically grown spinach would have to be

eaten
every day in order to meet the adult RDA for vitamin B12..."
http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/b12.htm

Again, this is a veg site, stupid. Not something like your money

scam
parade of idiocy...





*ANYBODY* including the animal food industry can put up a "veg" site

stupid pEtter.

========================
You ignorant fool. Why not read the site first, before diplaying your
stupidity to the world. ooops, too late....




I suppose you are going to pretend that the only source of Vitamin D
is through fortified "food"?

=========
I notice you are continuing your dodge. Good thing, you've already proven
how incrdibly stupid you are.
btw, in case your comprehension has diminished to that low a level, you
should notice that my discussion has been strickly about b12.
But then, strawmen are all you have left, aren't they killer.

Now, as to V-d, no, there are other sourcses besides fortified foods.,
cheese, butter, cream, fish, oysters eggs, liver and sun.
ummmm, seems to me only 'fortified' foods would be the thing for vegans, eh
fool?






try radishes and lettuce as well.

I'll look up more as I get time, but it is clear you wish to promote
animal products as being the *only* source for certain nutrients.







http://www.nutristrategy.com/nutrition/vitamind.htm
http://health.allrefer.com/health/vi...d-sources.html


"...Vegan and vegetarian sources of vitamin D include fortified soymilk,
fortified rice milk, and some fortified breakfast cereals..."
http://vegweb.com/articles/monique-1013269869.shtml


looks like your stupidity shines through again, killer....


.

  #84 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 28-05-2004, 10:46 PM
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default stupid killer, runny-boy


"Ron" wrote in message
om...
"rick etter" wrote in message

link.net...

snippage...






*ANYBODY* including the animal food industry can put up a "veg"

site
stupid pEtter.

========================
You ignorant fool. Why not read the site first, before diplaying

your
stupidity to the world. ooops, too late....



I suppose you are going to pretend that the only source of Vitamin D
is through fortified "food"?

=========
I notice you are continuing your dodge. Good thing, you've already

proven
how incrdibly stupid you are.
btw, in case your comprehension has diminished to that low a level, you
should notice that my discussion has been strickly about b12.
But then, strawmen are all you have left, aren't they killer.

Now, as to V-d, no, there are other sourcses besides fortified foods.,
cheese, butter, cream, fish, oysters eggs, liver and sun.
ummmm, seems to me only 'fortified' foods would be the thing for vegans,

eh
fool?






try radishes and lettuce as well.
=================

And your source that tells you that these are reliable sources of Vit. D
are?


I'll look up more as I get time, but it is clear you wish to promote
animal products as being the *only* source for certain nutrients.
=====================

Nope, I've never said they are the *only* sources, fool. I keep telling you
about suppliments, are you too stupid to read the posts know at all?
bviously you're too stupid to understand the sites that I point you to that
back up my claim.


here, I'll help, again...
Vitamin D
"...Food Sources: This vitamin is NOT found in vegetables, fruits or
cereals. Cod liver oil and fish is the best source for this vitamin as well
as Sunshine. For vegetarians butter gives you a supply of this vitamin and
there are many artificial sources such as cows milk and soy milk which are
often supplemented with Vitamin D. Viosterol is activated ergosteral, and
considered to be a source of Vitamin D but without Vitamin A, as is cod
liver oil. A and D should be taken together if possible..."
http://www.hathayogalesson.com/vitamins.htm

"...Vitamin D deficiency is more common in strict vegetarians (who avoid
vitamin D-fortified dairy foods),.."
http://www.mothernature.com/Library/...cfm/id/2930006








http://www.nutristrategy.com/nutrition/vitamind.htm
http://health.allrefer.com/health/vi...d-sources.html


"...Vegan and vegetarian sources of vitamin D include fortified soymilk,
fortified rice milk, and some fortified breakfast cereals..."
http://vegweb.com/articles/monique-1013269869.shtml
=================


Come on fool, dispute what they say! can't do it, huh?



looks like your stupidity shines through again, killer....


.



  #85 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 17-06-2004, 11:03 PM
John Coleman
 
Posts: n/a
Default usual suspect and rick etter

WW wrote
What an absurd lie! No wonder Tom Billings rips you a
new asshole every time he tears into you.


Really? Perhaps you would care to give an example.

Billings can't even stand to be in the same list as me - I tore him up quite
a few times on ivu-sci, and on that fake raw-food list he and his cronies
run. He usually winds up making some excuses about not having enough time to
reply. He's done that twice. He thinks the anthropology based paleolithic
diet has good science behind it. He even believes that the iron withholding
system is an adaptation for humans to eat meat. How inventive. I wonder what
he will dream up next?

The UK is about 64% self-sufficient in food, you inept
lying asshole. By value the UK imports about twice as
much food as they export, but they *do* export some
8.9 BILLION per year.

http://statistics.defra.gov.uk/esg/quick/agri.asp


You keep confusing dead animals, dairy, potatoes and grains as "food". I'm
talking about _fresh organic produce_, fruit and veg. It is nearly all
imported here.

BTW, Coleman, you ignorant polemical asshole, you can't
even SPELL "facts" or "logic" without help. Get back
to your "vegan" motorcycle webpage, dumbo.


If you had a little more intellect, you would see that constantly making
these kinds of remarks has no practical value, and it is contrary to the
T&Cs of your ISP. 2 good reasons to pack it in. Why are you on this list
anyway, you contribute nothing of value.

J





  #86 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 17-06-2004, 11:07 PM
Wilson Woods
 
Posts: n/a
Default usual suspect and rick etter

John Coleman wrote:

WW wrote

What an absurd lie! No wonder Tom Billings rips you a
new asshole every time he tears into you.



Really?


Yes.



The UK is about 64% self-sufficient in food, you inept
lying asshole. By value the UK imports about twice as
much food as they export, but they *do* export some
8.9 BILLION per year.

http://statistics.defra.gov.uk/esg/quick/agri.asp



You keep confusing dead animals, dairy, potatoes and grains as "food".


Meat, dairy, potatoes and grain unequivocally and
unambiguously are food fit for humans.

I'm
talking about _fresh organic produce_, fruit and veg. It is nearly all
imported here.


BTW, Coleman, you ignorant polemical asshole, you can't
even SPELL "facts" or "logic" without help. Get back
to your "vegan" motorcycle webpage, dumbo.



If you had a little more intellect, you would see that constantly making
these kinds of remarks has no practical value, and it is contrary to the
T&Cs of your ISP.


No, it isn't.

2 good reasons to pack it in.


No, and that ignores the best reason to stay:
deflating lying "vegans" and other orthorexic loons.

  #87 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 18-06-2004, 06:21 PM
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default usual suspect and rick etter

Orthorexic John Coleman wrote:
...
The UK is about 64% self-sufficient in food, you inept
lying asshole. By value the UK imports about twice as
much food as they export, but they *do* export some
8.9 BILLION per year.

http://statistics.defra.gov.uk/esg/quick/agri.asp


You keep confusing dead animals, dairy, potatoes and grains as "food".


There's no confusion: that IS food.

I'm
talking about _fresh organic produce_, fruit and veg. It is nearly all
imported here.


You can find plenty organic produce from PYOs, farmers' markets, etc. You shop
at Tesco and ASDA, so you find mostly stuff from Europe and the US.

...

  #88 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 20-06-2004, 11:15 PM
John Coleman
 
Posts: n/a
Default usual suspect and rick etter

WW
Yes.


examples of TB demonstrating this intellectual capacity are?

Meat, dairy, potatoes and grain unequivocally and
unambiguously are food fit for humans.


as I so often hear "prove it"

No, it isn't.


prove you are not breaching your ISPs T&Cs

No, and that ignores the best reason to stay:
deflating lying "vegans" and other orthorexic loons.


Can't you get a dirty magazine to provide a cheap thrill for yourself, or
aren't you even man enough for that?

John C




Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
what are the chances that usual suspect and rick are the *same* troll? [email protected] Vegan 37 04-12-2005 08:24 PM
Rick Etter's denial and the anti's on-going silence over it Derek Vegan 16 11-09-2005 05:22 PM
Rick Etter is right! That One Guy Vegan 81 21-12-2004 04:47 PM
"The production of my beef promotes no CDs. Period." Rick Etter Ipse dixit Vegan 20 17-11-2003 01:01 PM
Rick Etter's denial of the collateral deaths accrued during the production of grass fed beef Ipse dixit Vegan 6 15-11-2003 01:20 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:14 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2019 FoodBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Food and drink"

 

Copyright © 2017