This question about human nature and moral justice have been a
fundamental question through human existence since it became a
conscious being.
Conscious further than just able to willing interaction, but knowing
and questioning the state of things.
The issue here is about that what humans eat. It is a fundamental
issue in morality, given that a large proportion of humans eat meat,
and kill to get the meat.
Many times they get flocks,herds of a variety of animals and raise
them for the exclusive purpose of slaughter, which is done in order to
get meat.
From a purely biological point of view, this is just behavior, a
predator at work. Food chain in nature determines this. Nothing much
more to add from here.
Now from morality there comes the questions, What right has a human to
terminate the life of another living being for the purpose of getting
its flesh? Is it morally acceptable this practice? What does this
practice makes of a human? Is it good or bad to do this?
It is something to notice that if humans would act just according to
nature and no morality implied... well, we have seen that through
history...
But some would have certain kind of argument like 'as long as humans
are ok, thats ok'... Again, it is a matter of questioning, 'cosmic
justice' if you will, to ask whether there is good and evil, and what
is good and what is evil.
And of course, to do that what is good.
Unfortunately, many people behave actually pretty much like savage
animals. Restrained only by pressure. Government, other people...
Thence you get what are known as criminals... Which are no more but
humans exhibiting purely biological behavior. Humans as is, for say.
So actually the debate circle in whether killing other living beings
to get their flesh is something criminal to do.
I used to think that humans were apart from animals. Something like we
were some kind of spectator with a different nature and a cosmic
purpose. Well, now I know humans are made basically of the same
components than other animals and that behave pretty much the same as
other animals. Instincts play an integral part on its daily life and
even if want cannot stop feeling the instincts.
About the cosmic purpose, I believe we have( what is it I dont know).
I believe humans should use their abilities to change nature and the
food chain. No more lions eating zebras, no sharks eating fish...
Science should be use to find a way to achieve this. Maybe our purpose
is to do this. To end suffering in this world.
And to what is good and what is evil, I believe in following this
rule, Not to harm any living being.
AC

"wonderer" > wrote in message
om...
> This question about human nature and moral justice have been a
> fundamental question through human existence since it became a
> conscious being.
> Conscious further than just able to willing interaction, but knowing
> and questioning the state of things.
> The issue here is about that what humans eat. It is a fundamental
> issue in morality, given that a large proportion of humans eat meat,
> and kill to get the meat.
> Many times they get flocks,herds of a variety of animals and raise
> them for the exclusive purpose of slaughter, which is done in order to
> get meat.
> From a purely biological point of view, this is just behavior, a
> predator at work. Food chain in nature determines this. Nothing much
> more to add from here.
> Now from morality there comes the questions, What right has a human to
> terminate the life of another living being for the purpose of getting
> its flesh? Is it morally acceptable this practice? What does this
> practice makes of a human? Is it good or bad to do this?
> It is something to notice that if humans would act just according to
> nature and no morality implied... well, we have seen that through
> history...
> But some would have certain kind of argument like 'as long as humans
> are ok, thats ok'... Again, it is a matter of questioning, 'cosmic
> justice' if you will, to ask whether there is good and evil, and what
> is good and what is evil.
> And of course, to do that what is good.
> Unfortunately, many people behave actually pretty much like savage
> animals. Restrained only by pressure. Government, other people...
> Thence you get what are known as criminals... Which are no more but
> humans exhibiting purely biological behavior. Humans as is, for say.
> So actually the debate circle in whether killing other living beings
> to get their flesh is something criminal to do.
> I used to think that humans were apart from animals. Something like we
> were some kind of spectator with a different nature and a cosmic
> purpose. Well, now I know humans are made basically of the same
> components than other animals and that behave pretty much the same as
> other animals. Instincts play an integral part on its daily life and
> even if want cannot stop feeling the instincts.
> About the cosmic purpose, I believe we have( what is it I dont know).
> I believe humans should use their abilities to change nature and the
> food chain. No more lions eating zebras, no sharks eating fish...




> Science should be use to find a way to achieve this. Maybe our purpose
> is to do this. To end suffering in this world.
> And to what is good and what is evil, I believe in following this
> rule, Not to harm any living being.
======================
No, you don't. You prove that by posting your inane delusions to usenet.
But then, veganism is nothing if not hypocrisy run amok.

*

wonderer wrote:

> This question about human nature and moral justice have been a
> fundamental* question through human existence since it became a
> conscious being.
> Conscious further than just able to willing interaction, but knowing
> and* questioning the state of things.
> The issue here is about that what humans eat. It is a fundamental
> issue in morality, given that a large proportion of humans eat meat,
> and kill to get the meat.
> Many times they get flocks,herds of a variety of animals and raise
> them for the exclusive purpose of slaughter, which is done in order to
> get meat.
> From a purely biological point of view, this is just behavior, a
> predator at work. Food chain in nature determines this. Nothing much
> more to add from here.
> Now from morality there comes the questions, What right has a human to
> terminate the life of another living being for the purpose of getting
> its flesh?* Is it morally acceptable this practice?* What does this
> practice makes of a human? Is it good or bad to do this?
> It is something to notice that if humans would act just according to
> nature and no morality implied... well, we have seen that through
> history...
> But some would have certain kind of argument like 'as long as humans
> are ok, thats ok'... Again, it is a matter of questioning, 'cosmic
> justice' if you will, to ask whether there is good and evil, and what
> is good and what is evil.
> And of course, to do that what is good.
> Unfortunately, many people behave actually pretty much like savage
> animals. Restrained only by pressure. Government, other people...
> Thence you get what are known as criminals... Which are no more but
> humans exhibiting purely biological behavior. Humans as is, for say.
> So actually the debate circle in whether killing other living beings
> to get their flesh is something criminal to do.
> I used to think that humans were apart from animals. Something like we
> were some kind of spectator with a different nature and a cosmic
> purpose. Well, now I know humans are made basically of the same
> components than other animals and that behave pretty much the same as
> other animals. Instincts play an integral part on its daily life and
> even if want cannot stop feeling the instincts.
> About the cosmic purpose, I believe we have( what is it I dont know).
> I believe humans should use their abilities to change nature and the
> food chain. No more lions eating zebras, no sharks eating fish...
> Science should be use to find a way to achieve this. Maybe our purpose
> is to do this. To end suffering in this world.
> And to what is good and what is evil, I believe in following this
> rule, Not to harm any living being.
> AC

Let me get to you before rick etter does. You make your point from one
perspective, YOU! You the "cosmic" one, you the "conscious" one, you the
controller of nature. "No more lions eating zebras, no sharks eating
fish." This is supposed to be a discussion about the veganism, not about
you or Mr Etter's desire to be god. And if you would be so kind as to
reread your post above, you will see that it is badly in need of some
proof reading and editing. Are you so presumptive that you feel that your
writing skills need no review before you post them? Perhaps you and Mr
Etter should date! You could not be a more perfect match for sword
fighting egos!

*

rick etter wrote:

> "wonderer" > wrote in message
> om...
> > This question about human nature and moral justice have been a
> > fundamental* question through human existence since it became a
> > conscious being.
> > Conscious further than just able to willing interaction, but knowing
> > and* questioning the state of things.
> > The issue here is about that what humans eat. It is a fundamental
> > issue in morality, given that a large proportion of humans eat meat,
> > and kill to get the meat.
> > Many times they get flocks,herds of a variety of animals and raise
> > them for the exclusive purpose of slaughter, which is done in order to
> > get meat.
> > From a purely biological point of view, this is just behavior, a
> > predator at work. Food chain in nature determines this. Nothing much
> > more to add from here.
> > Now from morality there comes the questions, What right has a human to
> > terminate the life of another living being for the purpose of getting
> > its flesh?* Is it morally acceptable this practice?* What does this
> > practice makes of a human? Is it good or bad to do this?
> > It is something to notice that if humans would act just according to
> > nature and no morality implied... well, we have seen that through
> > history...
> > But some would have certain kind of argument like 'as long as humans
> > are ok, thats ok'... Again, it is a matter of questioning, 'cosmic
> > justice' if you will, to ask whether there is good and evil, and what
> > is good and what is evil.
> > And of course, to do that what is good.
> > Unfortunately, many people behave actually pretty much like savage
> > animals. Restrained only by pressure. Government, other people...
> > Thence you get what are known as criminals... Which are no more but
> > humans exhibiting purely biological behavior. Humans as is, for say.
> > So actually the debate circle in whether killing other living beings
> > to get their flesh is something criminal to do.
> > I used to think that humans were apart from animals. Something like we
> > were some kind of spectator with a different nature and a cosmic
> > purpose. Well, now I know humans are made basically of the same
> > components than other animals and that behave pretty much the same as
> > other animals. Instincts play an integral part on its daily life and
> > even if want cannot stop feeling the instincts.
> > About the cosmic purpose, I believe we have( what is it I dont know).
> > I believe humans should use their abilities to change nature and the
> > food chain. No more lions eating zebras, no sharks eating fish...
>
> > Science should be use to find a way to achieve this. Maybe our purpose
> > is to do this. To end suffering in this world.
> > And to what is good and what is evil, I believe in following this
> > rule, Not to harm any living being.
> ======================
> No, you don't.* You prove that by posting your inane delusions to usenet.
> But then, veganism is nothing if not hypocrisy run amok.

Now now Mr eatter, you are failing to address the nature of this post! This
person is here for the same reason you are - to proclaim to the world your
wanting desire to above the heap instead of the floor mat if educated people
everywhere!
*

blunderer wrote:
<...>
> About the cosmic purpose, I believe we have( what is it I dont know).
> I believe humans should use their abilities to change nature and the
> food chain. No more lions eating zebras, no sharks eating fish...

The lion will continue eating the zebra, the gazelle, the wildebeast, and
everything else the lion naturally eats. Same with the shark, who helps keep
other species in check. Your moronic views are not noble: they're devoid of
reality. They're also quite elitist and snobbish: I don't think YOU can improve
on nature.

> Science should be use to find a way to achieve this.

Why?

> Maybe our purpose is to do this.

Maybe it isn't. Maybe our purpose is to be part of nature rather than estranging
ourselves from it and trying to alter other animals' instincts as you propose.

> To end suffering in this world.

The lion suffers when she doesn't get a zebra with which to feed her cubs. She
sure as hell won't drag them to eat veggie burgers. Neither will sharks eat
fish-flavored seitan or tofu.

> And to what is good and what is evil, I believe in following this
> rule, Not to harm any living being.

Then don't **** around with the natural diets of other species.