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| Vegan (alt.food.vegan) This newsgroup exists to share ideas and issues of concern among vegans. We are always happy to share our recipes- perhaps especially with omnivores who are simply curious- or even better, accomodating a vegan guest for a meal! |
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A question . . .
Can anyone here name a famous bodybuilder or athlete who gained prominence
in his or her area while practicing a vegetarian/vegan lifestyle, and whose physical prowess can be said to have been obtained while practicing such a diet? And mind you, when I say "athlete," I'm not talking about a golfer or an egg-toss champion; rather, I'm looking for someone who excels in a strength-intensive field of endeavor, such as any track & field event, power lifting, gymnastics, etc. Regards, Karl -- "Foolish liberals who are trying to read the Second Amendment out of the Constitution by claiming it's not an individual right or that it's too much of a public safety hazard don't see the danger in the big picture. They're courting disaster by encouraging others to use the same means to eliminate portions of the constitution they don't like." --Alan Dershowitz |
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A question . . .
Karl Hungus wrote:
> Can anyone here name a famous bodybuilder or athlete who gained prominence > in his or her area while practicing a vegetarian/vegan lifestyle, and whose > physical prowess can be said to have been obtained while practicing such a > diet? Andreas Cahling is a vegetarian bodybuilder who placed in many competitions and beat Arnold Schwarzenegger in a Mr International. http://www.andreascahling.com/acb/we...ge_ID=20&DID=7 Bill Pearl, too, was vegetarian when he won bodybuilding's Mr Universe title. > And mind you, when I say "athlete," I'm not talking about a golfer or an > egg-toss champion; rather, I'm looking for someone who excels in a > strength-intensive field of endeavor, such as any track & field event, power > lifting, gymnastics, etc. Carl Lewis won nine gold medals at the Olympics and also won many other world-championship track and field events. He co-wrote a book on vegetarianism about 10-15 years ago, iirc. ESPN named him 12th in their Top 100 Athletes of the Century. http://espn.go.com/sportscentury/features/00016079.html Try searching through lists of famous vegetarians that run on veg-n websites. |
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A question . . .
usual suspect wrote:
> Karl Hungus wrote: > >> Can anyone here name a famous bodybuilder or athlete who gained >> prominence >> in his or her area while practicing a vegetarian/vegan lifestyle, and >> whose >> physical prowess can be said to have been obtained while practicing >> such a >> diet? > > > Andreas Cahling is a vegetarian bodybuilder who placed in many > competitions and beat Arnold Schwarzenegger in a Mr International. > http://www.andreascahling.com/acb/we...ge_ID=20&DID=7 > > Bill Pearl, too, was vegetarian when he won bodybuilding's Mr Universe > title. > >> And mind you, when I say "athlete," I'm not talking about a golfer or an >> egg-toss champion; rather, I'm looking for someone who excels in a >> strength-intensive field of endeavor, such as any track & field event, >> power >> lifting, gymnastics, etc. > > > Carl Lewis won nine gold medals at the Olympics and also won many other > world-championship track and field events. He co-wrote a book on > vegetarianism about 10-15 years ago, iirc. ESPN named him 12th in their > Top 100 Athletes of the Century. > http://espn.go.com/sportscentury/features/00016079.html WAY, WAY too high. No freakin' way Wilt Chamberlain should be below Carl Lewis. The most outrageous overranking, though, is Jim Brown at #4. That's insane. I don't think I even had him in my top 15, when I was trying to handicap that stupid media fiasco back when it happened. Chamberlain's got to be at least as high as Gretzky. Wilt suffered in that stupid contest because he wasn't a likable guy. > > Try searching through lists of famous vegetarians that run on veg-n > websites. > |
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A question . . .
Jonathan Ball wrote:
>>> Can anyone here name a famous bodybuilder or athlete who gained >>> prominence >>> in his or her area while practicing a vegetarian/vegan lifestyle, and >>> whose >>> physical prowess can be said to have been obtained while practicing >>> such a >>> diet? >> >> Andreas Cahling is a vegetarian bodybuilder who placed in many >> competitions and beat Arnold Schwarzenegger in a Mr International. >> http://www.andreascahling.com/acb/we...ge_ID=20&DID=7 >> >> Bill Pearl, too, was vegetarian when he won bodybuilding's Mr Universe >> title. >> >>> And mind you, when I say "athlete," I'm not talking about a golfer or an >>> egg-toss champion; rather, I'm looking for someone who excels in a >>> strength-intensive field of endeavor, such as any track & field >>> event, power >>> lifting, gymnastics, etc. >> >> Carl Lewis won nine gold medals at the Olympics and also won many >> other world-championship track and field events. He co-wrote a book on >> vegetarianism about 10-15 years ago, iirc. ESPN named him 12th in >> their Top 100 Athletes of the Century. >> http://espn.go.com/sportscentury/features/00016079.html > > WAY, WAY too high. No freakin' way Wilt Chamberlain should be below > Carl Lewis. The most outrageous overranking, though, is Jim Brown at > #4. That's insane. I don't think I even had him in my top 15, when I > was trying to handicap that stupid media fiasco back when it happened. Hehe. I said I'd put Walter Payton ahead of Brown. You replied: Brown still holds the record for yards per carry. If he had played as long as Payton and stayed healthy, he would probably still hold the total yards record. But I definitely don't have him at #4; possibly in or near the top 10, though. -- Jon Ball http://snipurl.com/4vdz > Chamberlain's got to be at least as high as Gretzky. Wilt suffered in > that stupid contest because he wasn't a likable guy. You had Wilt in the top 5 or 6. You got it right, though, that the list was more about celebrity than actual accomplishment. >> Try searching through lists of famous vegetarians that run on veg-n >> websites. >> > |
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A question . . .
"Karl Hungus" > wrote in message news:66v1c.174926$uV3.737485@attbi_s51... > Can anyone here name a famous bodybuilder or athlete who gained prominence > in his or her area while practicing a vegetarian/vegan lifestyle, and whose > physical prowess can be said to have been obtained while practicing such a > diet? > > And mind you, when I say "athlete," I'm not talking about a golfer or an > egg-toss champion; rather, I'm looking for someone who excels in a > strength-intensive field of endeavor, such as any track & field event, power > lifting, gymnastics, etc. > > Regards, > > Karl > I think "Killer" Kowalski was a famous vegetarian wrestler. Desmond Howard was an NFL football player. |
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A question . . .
usual suspect wrote:
> Jonathan Ball wrote: > >>>> Can anyone here name a famous bodybuilder or athlete who gained >>>> prominence >>>> in his or her area while practicing a vegetarian/vegan lifestyle, >>>> and whose >>>> physical prowess can be said to have been obtained while practicing >>>> such a >>>> diet? >>> >>> >>> Andreas Cahling is a vegetarian bodybuilder who placed in many >>> competitions and beat Arnold Schwarzenegger in a Mr International. >>> http://www.andreascahling.com/acb/we...ge_ID=20&DID=7 >>> >>> Bill Pearl, too, was vegetarian when he won bodybuilding's Mr >>> Universe title. >>> >>>> And mind you, when I say "athlete," I'm not talking about a golfer >>>> or an >>>> egg-toss champion; rather, I'm looking for someone who excels in a >>>> strength-intensive field of endeavor, such as any track & field >>>> event, power >>>> lifting, gymnastics, etc. >>> >>> >>> Carl Lewis won nine gold medals at the Olympics and also won many >>> other world-championship track and field events. He co-wrote a book >>> on vegetarianism about 10-15 years ago, iirc. ESPN named him 12th in >>> their Top 100 Athletes of the Century. >>> http://espn.go.com/sportscentury/features/00016079.html >> >> >> WAY, WAY too high. No freakin' way Wilt Chamberlain should be below >> Carl Lewis. The most outrageous overranking, though, is Jim Brown at >> #4. That's insane. I don't think I even had him in my top 15, when I >> was trying to handicap that stupid media fiasco back when it happened. > > > Hehe. I said I'd put Walter Payton ahead of Brown. You replied: > > Brown still holds the record for yards per carry. If > he had played as long as Payton and stayed healthy, he > would probably still hold the total yards record. But > I definitely don't have him at #4; possibly in or near > the top 10, though. > -- Jon Ball > http://snipurl.com/4vdz That's right, we did talk about that before; one more thing I'd forgotten. When I was trying to get a little pool going, as I described in that post, only the top 25 remained to be listed. I was hoping to get the pool organized right as it got down to the final 20. My pool, if I remember correctly, was to have the top 20 listed, and the top 10 in the correct order, or close to it. As it got down to the final 20, it was obvious that Brown would be among them. I even figured there was a strong chance he'd be in the top 10, but I never would have guessed all the way at #4. > >> Chamberlain's got to be at least as high as Gretzky. Wilt suffered in >> that stupid contest because he wasn't a likable guy. > > > You had Wilt in the top 5 or 6. You got it right, though, that the list > was more about celebrity than actual accomplishment. > >>> Try searching through lists of famous vegetarians that run on veg-n >>> websites. >>> >> > |
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A question . . .
"usual suspect" > wrote in message ... > Karl Hungus wrote: > > Can anyone here name a famous bodybuilder or athlete who gained prominence > > in his or her area while practicing a vegetarian/vegan lifestyle, and whose > > physical prowess can be said to have been obtained while practicing such a > > diet? > > Andreas Cahling is a vegetarian bodybuilder who placed in many competitions and > beat Arnold Schwarzenegger in a Mr International. > http://www.andreascahling.com/acb/we...ge_ID=20&DID=7 > > Bill Pearl, too, was vegetarian when he won bodybuilding's Mr Universe title. > > > And mind you, when I say "athlete," I'm not talking about a golfer or an > > egg-toss champion; rather, I'm looking for someone who excels in a > > strength-intensive field of endeavor, such as any track & field event, power > > lifting, gymnastics, etc. > > Carl Lewis won nine gold medals at the Olympics and also won many other > world-championship track and field events. He co-wrote a book on vegetarianism > about 10-15 years ago, iirc. ESPN named him 12th in their Top 100 Athletes of > the Century. > http://espn.go.com/sportscentury/features/00016079.html > > Try searching through lists of famous vegetarians that run on veg-n websites. So it *can* be done, huh? I instinctively believed that while you might be able to live a healthy life without any animal-derived protein, that your potential would be quite limited in terms of advanced athletic ability. But I'm still gonna eat meat, dammit! :^) |
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A question . . .
Karl Hungus wrote:
> "usual suspect" > wrote in message > ... > >>Karl Hungus wrote: >> >>>Can anyone here name a famous bodybuilder or athlete who gained > > prominence > >>>in his or her area while practicing a vegetarian/vegan lifestyle, and > > whose > >>>physical prowess can be said to have been obtained while practicing such > > a > >>>diet? >> >>Andreas Cahling is a vegetarian bodybuilder who placed in many > > competitions and > >>beat Arnold Schwarzenegger in a Mr International. >>http://www.andreascahling.com/acb/we...ge_ID=20&DID=7 >> >>Bill Pearl, too, was vegetarian when he won bodybuilding's Mr Universe > > title. > >>>And mind you, when I say "athlete," I'm not talking about a golfer or an >>>egg-toss champion; rather, I'm looking for someone who excels in a >>>strength-intensive field of endeavor, such as any track & field event, > > power > >>>lifting, gymnastics, etc. >> >>Carl Lewis won nine gold medals at the Olympics and also won many other >>world-championship track and field events. He co-wrote a book on > > vegetarianism > >>about 10-15 years ago, iirc. ESPN named him 12th in their Top 100 Athletes > > of > >>the Century. >>http://espn.go.com/sportscentury/features/00016079.html >> >>Try searching through lists of famous vegetarians that run on veg-n > > websites. > > > So it *can* be done, huh? Well...sort of. Bill Pearl, at least, was not really a vegetarian, and certainly no "vegan". In his book "Getting Stronger", he describes himself as a "lacto-ovo-vegetarian". In other words, he eats quite a lot of low-fat dairy products, and eggs. > I instinctively believed that while you might be > able to live a healthy life without any animal-derived protein, that your > potential would be quite limited in terms of advanced athletic ability. > > But I'm still gonna eat meat, dammit! :^) > > |
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A question . . .
Karl Hungus wrote:
<...> > So it *can* be done, huh? Diet alone doesn't make an Andreas Cahling or a Carl Lewis. They probably would be at the top of their sports regardless of diet -- healthy diet -- because of their dedication and drive. The only sport where one can eat chocolate donuts, drink beer, and have BBQ or pizza every day is golf, and it took John Daly almost a decade to win again. > I instinctively believed that while you might be > able to live a healthy life without any animal-derived protein, that your > potential would be quite limited in terms of advanced athletic ability. Protein consumption in and of itself doesn't affect athletic performance. Carb intake is more of an issue, particularly in endurance and speed sports (I don't really consider bodybuilding a sport, but the training required for it *is* sport). I don't eat meat because it doesn't seem to work for me and my athletic activities (mainly running and cycling). I need more carbs than most people. > But I'm still gonna eat meat, dammit! :^) Nobody can stop you but yourself. |
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A question . . .
usual suspect wrote:
> Karl Hungus wrote: > <...> > >> So it *can* be done, huh? > > > Diet alone doesn't make an Andreas Cahling or a Carl Lewis. They > probably would be at the top of their sports regardless of diet -- > healthy diet -- because of their dedication and drive. The only sport > where one can eat chocolate donuts, drink beer, and have BBQ or pizza > every day is golf, and it took John Daly almost a decade to win again. Don't forget bowling and curling (curling is just bowling on ice.) As a golfer, and a fit one at that, I somewhat resent the slams on golfers, but then I remember reading about some incident back in the 1960s with one of the good but not top rank golfers like Cary Middlecoff or someone like that. At 8:30 in the morning the golf pro was caught on the course with a cocktail by some reporter, who asked the pro about it. The guy replied, "I'm a golfer, not an athlete." (The same quote is more recently attributed to the modern golfer Lee Westwood.) You might not want to look too closely at the site www.sportnonsport.com. They purport to answer definitively the question of whether various activities are sports or not. I applaud the effort, as I have had the discussion with lots of people and I've also tried to develop a set of meaningful criteria, but I don't agree with all the details of this site's criteria. For example, in breaking down the degree of competition, they give increased weight to whether or not there is contact. Anyway, you'll be chagrined to know that two events you would clearly think of as "sports" are classed as non-sports: triathlon and cycling. By implication, that means distance running is not a sport (sprints and middle distance likely are.) The list of non-sports is not exhaustive, unfortunately, and I don't think I'll buy the book. > >> I instinctively believed that while you might be >> able to live a healthy life without any animal-derived protein, that your >> potential would be quite limited in terms of advanced athletic ability. > > > Protein consumption in and of itself doesn't affect athletic > performance. Carb intake is more of an issue, particularly in endurance > and speed sports (I don't really consider bodybuilding a sport, but the > training required for it *is* sport). Bodybuilding gets a score of 38 at the sport-nonsport site. 75 is required to be classed a sport. > I don't eat meat because it > doesn't seem to work for me and my athletic activities (mainly running > and cycling). I need more carbs than most people. > >> But I'm still gonna eat meat, dammit! :^) > > > Nobody can stop you but yourself. > |
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A question . . .
Jonathan Ball wrote:
>> Diet alone doesn't make an Andreas Cahling or a Carl Lewis. They >> probably would be at the top of their sports regardless of diet -- >> healthy diet -- because of their dedication and drive. The only sport >> where one can eat chocolate donuts, drink beer, and have BBQ or pizza >> every day is golf, and it took John Daly almost a decade to win again. > > Don't forget bowling and curling (curling is just bowling on ice.) > > As a golfer, and a fit one at that, I somewhat resent the slams on > golfers, but then I remember reading about some incident back in the > 1960s with one of the good but not top rank golfers like Cary Middlecoff > or someone like that. At 8:30 in the morning the golf pro was caught on > the course with a cocktail by some reporter, who asked the pro about > it. The guy replied, "I'm a golfer, not an athlete." (The same quote > is more recently attributed to the modern golfer Lee Westwood.) I know a lot of golfers like that. I also know a few who take up weight training and their toned muscles really screw up their swings. > You might not want to look too closely at the site > www.sportnonsport.com. I'm not closed-minded. > They purport to answer definitively the question > of whether various activities are sports or not. I applaud the effort, > as I have had the discussion with lots of people and I've also tried to > develop a set of meaningful criteria, but I don't agree with all the > details of this site's criteria. For example, in breaking down the > degree of competition, they give increased weight to whether or not > there is contact. I saw other criteria with which I take issue, most notably the lifespan factor. Running is something many people continue well beyond their 50s. The site says, "A longer lifespan would indicate a less physically demanding activity, and a lower score," but running a marathon at 65 is as gruelling and physically demanding as -- or more -- than it was when the runner was in his 20s and 30s. What percentage of the 20-39 year-old population can run 5 miles, much less 26.2? > Anyway, you'll be chagrined to know that two events you would clearly > think of as "sports" are classed as non-sports: triathlon and cycling. I see that. Let's put Daly on a bike against Lance and let the best athlete win. > By implication, that means distance running is not a sport (sprints and > middle distance likely are.) The list of non-sports is not exhaustive, > unfortunately, and I don't think I'll buy the book. Marathon scores 57, making it a "recreational activity." I'll try to remember that next time I'm about to hit the wall at mile 18. <...> |
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A question . . .
usual suspect wrote:
> Jonathan Ball wrote: > >>> Diet alone doesn't make an Andreas Cahling or a Carl Lewis. They >>> probably would be at the top of their sports regardless of diet -- >>> healthy diet -- because of their dedication and drive. The only sport >>> where one can eat chocolate donuts, drink beer, and have BBQ or pizza >>> every day is golf, and it took John Daly almost a decade to win again. >> >> >> Don't forget bowling and curling (curling is just bowling on ice.) >> >> As a golfer, and a fit one at that, I somewhat resent the slams on >> golfers, but then I remember reading about some incident back in the >> 1960s with one of the good but not top rank golfers like Cary >> Middlecoff or someone like that. At 8:30 in the morning the golf pro >> was caught on the course with a cocktail by some reporter, who asked >> the pro about it. The guy replied, "I'm a golfer, not an athlete." >> (The same quote is more recently attributed to the modern golfer Lee >> Westwood.) > > > I know a lot of golfers like that. I also know a few who take up weight > training and their toned muscles really screw up their swings. Here I am! That's exactly what happened to me. I had never stopped weight training, but I began doing it with significantly more intensity a couple of years ago, and my swing went right down the dumper; never got it back, and now I scarcely have time to play. > >> You might not want to look too closely at the site www.sportnonsport.com. > > > I'm not closed-minded. No, I know that; I'm just giving a slight tug on your chain ;-) > >> They purport to answer definitively the question of whether various >> activities are sports or not. I applaud the effort, as I have had the >> discussion with lots of people and I've also tried to develop a set of >> meaningful criteria, but I don't agree with all the details of this >> site's criteria. For example, in breaking down the degree of >> competition, they give increased weight to whether or not there is >> contact. > > > I saw other criteria with which I take issue, most notably the lifespan > factor. Running is something many people continue well beyond their 50s. > The site says, "A longer lifespan would indicate a less physically > demanding activity, and a lower score," but running a marathon at 65 is > as gruelling and physically demanding as -- or more -- than it was when > the runner was in his 20s and 30s. What percentage of the 20-39 year-old > population can run 5 miles, much less 26.2? You do get their point, though. In terms of what they're trying to accomplish with their delineation of criteria, lifespan is relevant. When the sheer aging process, even excluding things like being beaten on by opponents, starts to make you unable to do the sport at the highest competitive levels, it seems to me to make it less of a sport. That's one of the things that works against golf, by the way. My criteria aren't quite as rigid as theirs, nor do I assign numerical scores. I consider broadly whether athletic ability - that guy's categories 1 and 2 lumped together - is required, and whether or not the outcome is objectively determined. On those criteria, golf is a sport, while gymnastics (which I like a lot) and figure skating (which I detest) are not. Cycling and running very much are sports. Golf doesn't require a *lot* of athletic ability, but the skill factor is very high, and while I wouldn't call the physicality of it "exertion", the timing, coordination and sense of one's body are very demanding. I have a good friend who was having the discussion with some colleagues in the office one time, and the breakdown occurred along predictable sex lines. The women all insisted that synchronized swimming was a sport; the men, naturally and correctly, scoffed at it. One of the women whined, "But it's really HAAAAAARD!" One of the guys, someone my friend says is one of the funnniest guys he's ever known, replied, "So is lifting the front end of a Jeep. Is that a sport?" The women all snarled at him. > >> Anyway, you'll be chagrined to know that two events you would clearly >> think of as "sports" are classed as non-sports: triathlon and cycling. > > > I see that. Let's put Daly on a bike against Lance and let the best > athlete win. Cycling is clearly a sport. That site's fourth category, the nature of the competition, is irrelevant. That category is only going to help determine the likely spectators for the sport, not the intrinsic quality of it. > >> By implication, that means distance running is not a sport (sprints >> and middle distance likely are.) The list of non-sports is not >> exhaustive, unfortunately, and I don't think I'll buy the book. > > > Marathon scores 57, making it a "recreational activity." I'll try to > remember that next time I'm about to hit the wall at mile 18. Haw haw haw! |
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A question . . .
By the way...
I once heard Johnny Carson, of all people, make a good point about golf vs. tennis. He pointed out that, at a country club, there are likely to be a number of fine golf players who can play at or even exceed the level of the club pro, but there aren't likely to be many, if any, club members who can match the tennis pro. |
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A question . . .
Another BTW...
Go back to that site, www.sportnonsport.com, and check out the message board. It's hilarious! One after another, the people who participate in one of the "non-sports" have written whiny posts complaining that the author classes their event a non-sport. The more obvious a non-sport it actually is, like motocross or (I'm not kidding) rock climbing (!), the whinier the complaint. I replied something similar to several of them: "did you *READ* the site author's criteria?" As I said earlier, I would dispute his entire fourth category of "nature of competition" in terms of classing something as a sport or not. The nature of the competition may be a major factor for individual spectators as to how much interest they have, but it shouldn't play any role, in my opinion, in determining whether or not the event is classed as a sport. However, the site author is free to use whatever criteria he likes. I like the concept of the site, even if not all of its execution. It's a never-ending question, and getting people to think about it in more complete terms is both useful and entertaining. |
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A question . . .
Jonathan Ball wrote:
>>>> Diet alone doesn't make an Andreas Cahling or a Carl Lewis. They >>>> probably would be at the top of their sports regardless of diet -- >>>> healthy diet -- because of their dedication and drive. The only >>>> sport where one can eat chocolate donuts, drink beer, and have BBQ >>>> or pizza every day is golf, and it took John Daly almost a decade to >>>> win again. >>> >>> Don't forget bowling and curling (curling is just bowling on ice.) >>> >>> As a golfer, and a fit one at that, I somewhat resent the slams on >>> golfers, but then I remember reading about some incident back in the >>> 1960s with one of the good but not top rank golfers like Cary >>> Middlecoff or someone like that. At 8:30 in the morning the golf pro >>> was caught on the course with a cocktail by some reporter, who asked >>> the pro about it. The guy replied, "I'm a golfer, not an athlete." >>> (The same quote is more recently attributed to the modern golfer Lee >>> Westwood.) >> >> I know a lot of golfers like that. I also know a few who take up >> weight training and their toned muscles really screw up their swings. > > Here I am! That's exactly what happened to me. I had never stopped > weight training, but I began doing it with significantly more intensity > a couple of years ago, and my swing went right down the dumper; never > got it back, and now I scarcely have time to play. I just snicker now when golfers come to the gym and ask for advice. Seems that even if they just try to tone -- not bulk up or imitate Tiger's latest work out from one of the golf magazines -- they complain that it messes up their swings. >>> You might not want to look too closely at the site >>> www.sportnonsport.com. >> >> I'm not closed-minded. > > No, I know that; I'm just giving a slight tug on your chain ;-) The site is kind of funny. This time of year -- no baseball or football, basketball is still a bit far from play-offs -- my friends and I argue over what's sport and what isn't. We especially annoy the wives and girlfriends over figure skating, synchronized swimming, and dog shows ("are those chicks serious?!"). I don't recall anyone else ever questioning marathon running or triathalons as sport. >>> They purport to answer definitively the question of whether various >>> activities are sports or not. I applaud the effort, as I have had >>> the discussion with lots of people and I've also tried to develop a >>> set of meaningful criteria, but I don't agree with all the details of >>> this site's criteria. For example, in breaking down the degree of >>> competition, they give increased weight to whether or not there is >>> contact. >> >> I saw other criteria with which I take issue, most notably the >> lifespan factor. Running is something many people continue well beyond >> their 50s. The site says, "A longer lifespan would indicate a less >> physically demanding activity, and a lower score," but running a >> marathon at 65 is as gruelling and physically demanding as -- or more >> -- than it was when the runner was in his 20s and 30s. What percentage >> of the 20-39 year-old population can run 5 miles, much less 26.2? > > You do get their point, though. In terms of what they're trying to > accomplish with their delineation of criteria, lifespan is relevant. > When the sheer aging process, even excluding things like being beaten on > by opponents, starts to make you unable to do the sport at the highest > competitive levels, it seems to me to make it less of a sport. That's > one of the things that works against golf, by the way. I get the point, but there's the seniors tour for golf and masters divisions in running. Most marathoners aren't trying to break the two-hour barrier; most are satisfied to run a new personal record (PR). > My criteria aren't quite as rigid as theirs, nor do I assign numerical > scores. I consider broadly whether athletic ability - that guy's > categories 1 and 2 lumped together - is required, and whether or not the > outcome is objectively determined. On those criteria, golf is a sport, > while gymnastics (which I like a lot) and figure skating (which I > detest) are not. Cycling and running very much are sports. Golf > doesn't require a *lot* of athletic ability, but the skill factor is > very high, and while I wouldn't call the physicality of it "exertion", > the timing, coordination and sense of one's body are very demanding. Playing darts also requires tremendous skill and coordination. Would you rank golf much higher? > I have a good friend who was having the discussion with some colleagues > in the office one time, and the breakdown occurred along predictable sex > lines. The women all insisted that synchronized swimming was a sport; > the men, naturally and correctly, scoffed at it. One of the women > whined, "But it's really HAAAAAARD!" One of the guys, someone my friend > says is one of the funnniest guys he's ever known, replied, "So is > lifting the front end of a Jeep. Is that a sport?" The women all > snarled at him. Hehe. We go through that often. My girlfriend goes into a trance when she watches figure skating. So do I, but I'm looking at something she's not looking at. When the routine is over, she'll say something like, "Wasn't that incredible?" And I'll say something like, "Yeah, but the camera didn't stay on her cameltoe very long." Then, and only then, do I get to watch something more interesting. >>> Anyway, you'll be chagrined to know that two events you would clearly >>> think of as "sports" are classed as non-sports: triathlon and cycling. >> >> I see that. Let's put Daly on a bike against Lance and let the best >> athlete win. > > Cycling is clearly a sport. That site's fourth category, the nature of > the competition, is irrelevant. That category is only going to help > determine the likely spectators for the sport, not the intrinsic quality > of it. Spectatorship shouldn't be a criterion at all. Some sports are far more popular here than abroad, and some are far more popular abroad than they are here. Soccer, cycling, and cricket come to mind as examples of the latter. Interest in cycling has grown (thanks to a guy named Lance), but it doesn't lend itself to television like football or basketball. >>> By implication, that means distance running is not a sport (sprints >>> and middle distance likely are.) The list of non-sports is not >>> exhaustive, unfortunately, and I don't think I'll buy the book. >> >> Marathon scores 57, making it a "recreational activity." I'll try to >> remember that next time I'm about to hit the wall at mile 18. > > Haw haw haw! |
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A question . . .
Jonathan Ball wrote:
> By the way... > > I once heard Johnny Carson, of all people, make a good point about golf > vs. tennis. He pointed out that, at a country club, there are likely to > be a number of fine golf players who can play at or even exceed the > level of the club pro, but there aren't likely to be many, if any, club > members who can match the tennis pro. Carson was a pretty good tennis player. He was right about beating the pro, too. |
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A question . . .
Jonathan Ball wrote:
> Another BTW... > > Go back to that site, www.sportnonsport.com, and check out the message > board. It's hilarious! One after another, the people who participate > in one of the "non-sports" have written whiny posts complaining that the > author classes their event a non-sport. The more obvious a non-sport it > actually is, like motocross or (I'm not kidding) rock climbing (!), the > whinier the complaint. I replied something similar to several of them: > "did you *READ* the site author's criteria?" LOL! I love your responses to "Kristy" on cheerleading. > As I said earlier, I would dispute his entire fourth category of "nature > of competition" in terms of classing something as a sport or not. The > nature of the competition may be a major factor for individual > spectators as to how much interest they have, but it shouldn't play any > role, in my opinion, in determining whether or not the event is classed > as a sport. > > However, the site author is free to use whatever criteria he likes. I > like the concept of the site, even if not all of its execution. It's a > never-ending question, and getting people to think about it in more > complete terms is both useful and entertaining. More of the latter, imo. :-) |
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A question . . .
usual suspect wrote:
> Jonathan Ball wrote: > >>>>> Diet alone doesn't make an Andreas Cahling or a Carl Lewis. They >>>>> probably would be at the top of their sports regardless of diet -- >>>>> healthy diet -- because of their dedication and drive. The only >>>>> sport where one can eat chocolate donuts, drink beer, and have BBQ >>>>> or pizza every day is golf, and it took John Daly almost a decade >>>>> to win again. >>>> >>>> >>>> Don't forget bowling and curling (curling is just bowling on ice.) >>>> >>>> As a golfer, and a fit one at that, I somewhat resent the slams on >>>> golfers, but then I remember reading about some incident back in the >>>> 1960s with one of the good but not top rank golfers like Cary >>>> Middlecoff or someone like that. At 8:30 in the morning the golf >>>> pro was caught on the course with a cocktail by some reporter, who >>>> asked the pro about it. The guy replied, "I'm a golfer, not an >>>> athlete." (The same quote is more recently attributed to the modern >>>> golfer Lee Westwood.) >>> >>> >>> I know a lot of golfers like that. I also know a few who take up >>> weight training and their toned muscles really screw up their swings. >> >> >> Here I am! That's exactly what happened to me. I had never stopped >> weight training, but I began doing it with significantly more >> intensity a couple of years ago, and my swing went right down the >> dumper; never got it back, and now I scarcely have time to play. > > > I just snicker now when golfers come to the gym and ask for advice. > Seems that even if they just try to tone -- not bulk up or imitate > Tiger's latest work out from one of the golf magazines -- they complain > that it messes up their swings. > >>>> You might not want to look too closely at the site >>>> www.sportnonsport.com. >>> >>> >>> I'm not closed-minded. >> >> >> No, I know that; I'm just giving a slight tug on your chain ;-) > > > The site is kind of funny. This time of year -- no baseball or football, > basketball is still a bit far from play-offs -- my friends and I argue > over what's sport and what isn't. We especially annoy the wives and > girlfriends over figure skating, synchronized swimming, and dog shows > ("are those chicks serious?!"). I don't recall anyone else ever > questioning marathon running or triathalons as sport. I understand what he's driving at with his "competition" category, but I don't accept most of it in terms of determining if an event is a sport. > >>>> They purport to answer definitively the question of whether various >>>> activities are sports or not. I applaud the effort, as I have had >>>> the discussion with lots of people and I've also tried to develop a >>>> set of meaningful criteria, but I don't agree with all the details >>>> of this site's criteria. For example, in breaking down the degree of >>>> competition, they give increased weight to whether or not there is >>>> contact. >>> >>> >>> I saw other criteria with which I take issue, most notably the >>> lifespan factor. Running is something many people continue well >>> beyond their 50s. The site says, "A longer lifespan would indicate a >>> less physically demanding activity, and a lower score," but running a >>> marathon at 65 is as gruelling and physically demanding as -- or more >>> -- than it was when the runner was in his 20s and 30s. What >>> percentage of the 20-39 year-old population can run 5 miles, much >>> less 26.2? >> >> >> You do get their point, though. In terms of what they're trying to >> accomplish with their delineation of criteria, lifespan is relevant. >> When the sheer aging process, even excluding things like being beaten >> on by opponents, starts to make you unable to do the sport at the >> highest competitive levels, it seems to me to make it less of a >> sport. That's one of the things that works against golf, by the way. > > > I get the point, but there's the seniors tour for golf and masters > divisions in running. Right, but that means they're no longer competing against the very best the sport has to offer. Even *with* a seniors tour for golf, though, look at the fact that there still are - or at least, were - highly competitive golfers in their 40s on the regular tour. Lance Armstrong won't be competing in any Tours de France in his 40s. I think this is one of the factors that works a little bit against baseball, too, compared to other major North American sports. There is a fair number of position player over age 35 in baseball, but not too many in football or basketball, and especially not in hockey. > Most marathoners aren't trying to break the > two-hour barrier; most are satisfied to run a new personal record (PR). > >> My criteria aren't quite as rigid as theirs, nor do I assign numerical >> scores. I consider broadly whether athletic ability - that guy's >> categories 1 and 2 lumped together - is required, and whether or not >> the outcome is objectively determined. On those criteria, golf is a >> sport, while gymnastics (which I like a lot) and figure skating (which >> I detest) are not. Cycling and running very much are sports. Golf >> doesn't require a *lot* of athletic ability, but the skill factor is >> very high, and while I wouldn't call the physicality of it "exertion", >> the timing, coordination and sense of one's body are very demanding. > > > Playing darts also requires tremendous skill and coordination. Would you > rank golf much higher? Enough higher, sure. Plus, until the Casey Martin mess, golfers at least had to walk some 7,000 yards. Dart throwers may walk a few hundred yards in a night, back and forth to the bar, but it's not part of the event. > >> I have a good friend who was having the discussion with some >> colleagues in the office one time, and the breakdown occurred along >> predictable sex lines. The women all insisted that synchronized >> swimming was a sport; the men, naturally and correctly, scoffed at >> it. One of the women whined, "But it's really HAAAAAARD!" One of the >> guys, someone my friend says is one of the funnniest guys he's ever >> known, replied, "So is lifting the front end of a Jeep. Is that a >> sport?" The women all snarled at him. > > > Hehe. We go through that often. My girlfriend goes into a trance when > she watches figure skating. So do I, but I'm looking at something she's > not looking at. Hehehehehehehe. > When the routine is over, she'll say something like, > "Wasn't that incredible?" And I'll say something like, "Yeah, but the > camera didn't stay on her cameltoe very long." Then, and only then, do I > get to watch something more interesting. Did you hear the Phil Hendrie episode a couple of months ago in which Steve Bozell, the chronic crybaby, was crying because his wife and all her friends were furious with him, because he had come home when the other girls were all visiting, and had said to his wife's friend "DeeDee", "Nice cameltoe, DeeDee." He couldn't understand why his wife had unloaded on him, saying he was tasteless and crude; as Steve saw it, he was only trying to do DeeDee a favor, sort of like (in his words) telling someone she had a bit of spinach stuck between her teeth. > >>>> Anyway, you'll be chagrined to know that two events you would >>>> clearly think of as "sports" are classed as non-sports: triathlon >>>> and cycling. >>> >>> >>> I see that. Let's put Daly on a bike against Lance and let the best >>> athlete win. >> >> >> Cycling is clearly a sport. That site's fourth category, the nature >> of the competition, is irrelevant. That category is only going to >> help determine the likely spectators for the sport, not the intrinsic >> quality of it. > > > Spectatorship shouldn't be a criterion at all. I don't think the site author thinks he's suggesting it is. > Some sports are far more > popular here than abroad, and some are far more popular abroad than they > are here. Soccer, cycling, and cricket come to mind as examples of the > latter. Interest in cycling has grown (thanks to a guy named Lance), but > it doesn't lend itself to television like football or basketball. I watched a fair amount of cycling on TV when I lived in Switzerland in 1971-72. I still remember some great charges Eddy Merckx made. > >>>> By implication, that means distance running is not a sport (sprints >>>> and middle distance likely are.) The list of non-sports is not >>>> exhaustive, unfortunately, and I don't think I'll buy the book. >>> >>> >>> Marathon scores 57, making it a "recreational activity." I'll try to >>> remember that next time I'm about to hit the wall at mile 18. >> >> >> Haw haw haw! > > |
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A question . . .
usual suspect wrote:
> Jonathan Ball wrote: > >> Another BTW... >> >> Go back to that site, www.sportnonsport.com, and check out the message >> board. It's hilarious! One after another, the people who participate >> in one of the "non-sports" have written whiny posts complaining that >> the author classes their event a non-sport. The more obvious a >> non-sport it actually is, like motocross or (I'm not kidding) rock >> climbing (!), the whinier the complaint. I replied something similar >> to several of them: "did you *READ* the site author's criteria?" > > > LOL! I love your responses to "Kristy" on cheerleading. I was floored to learn no more than a couple of years ago that cheerleading is now considered a sport in high schools. I think there probably were competitions of some kind back when I was in school, but cheerleading was strictly an extra-curricular activity. > >> As I said earlier, I would dispute his entire fourth category of >> "nature of competition" in terms of classing something as a sport or >> not. The nature of the competition may be a major factor for >> individual spectators as to how much interest they have, but it >> shouldn't play any role, in my opinion, in determining whether or not >> the event is classed as a sport. >> >> However, the site author is free to use whatever criteria he likes. I >> like the concept of the site, even if not all of its execution. It's >> a never-ending question, and getting people to think about it in more >> complete terms is both useful and entertaining. > > > More of the latter, imo. :-) Mostly. However, it could be useful if it helps to crystalize in your girlfriend's mind why you're not going to watch synchronized swimming. She may not even ask you... |
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A question . . .
"Jonathan Ball" > wrote in message link.net... > Right, but that means they're no longer competing > against the very best the sport has to offer. Even > *with* a seniors tour for golf, though, look at the > fact that there still are - or at least, were - highly > competitive golfers in their 40s on the regular tour. > Lance Armstrong won't be competing in any Tours de > France in his 40s. > > I think this is one of the factors that works a little > bit against baseball, too, compared to other major > North American sports. There is a fair number of > position player over age 35 in baseball, but not too > many in football or basketball, and especially not in > hockey. > > > Most marathoners aren't trying to break the > > two-hour barrier; most are satisfied to run a new personal record (PR). > > > >> My criteria aren't quite as rigid as theirs, nor do I assign numerical > >> scores. I consider broadly whether athletic ability - that guy's > >> categories 1 and 2 lumped together - is required, and whether or not > >> the outcome is objectively determined. On those criteria, golf is a > >> sport, while gymnastics (which I like a lot) and figure skating (which > >> I detest) are not. Cycling and running very much are sports. Golf > >> doesn't require a *lot* of athletic ability, but the skill factor is > >> very high, and while I wouldn't call the physicality of it "exertion", > >> the timing, coordination and sense of one's body are very demanding. > > > > > > Playing darts also requires tremendous skill and coordination. Would you > > rank golf much higher? > > Enough higher, sure. Plus, until the Casey Martin > mess, golfers at least had to walk some 7,000 yards. > Dart throwers may walk a few hundred yards in a night, > back and forth to the bar, but it's not part of the event. > > > > >> I have a good friend who was having the discussion with some > >> colleagues in the office one time, and the breakdown occurred along > >> predictable sex lines. The women all insisted that synchronized > >> swimming was a sport; the men, naturally and correctly, scoffed at > >> it. One of the women whined, "But it's really HAAAAAARD!" One of the > >> guys, someone my friend says is one of the funnniest guys he's ever > >> known, replied, "So is lifting the front end of a Jeep. Is that a > >> sport?" The women all snarled at him. > > > > > > Hehe. We go through that often. My girlfriend goes into a trance when > > she watches figure skating. So do I, but I'm looking at something she's > > not looking at. > > Hehehehehehehe. > > > When the routine is over, she'll say something like, > > "Wasn't that incredible?" And I'll say something like, "Yeah, but the > > camera didn't stay on her cameltoe very long." Then, and only then, do I > > get to watch something more interesting. > > Did you hear the Phil Hendrie episode a couple of > months ago in which Steve Bozell, the chronic crybaby, > was crying because his wife and all her friends were > furious with him, because he had come home when the > other girls were all visiting, and had said to his > wife's friend "DeeDee", "Nice cameltoe, DeeDee." He > couldn't understand why his wife had unloaded on him, > saying he was tasteless and crude; as Steve saw it, he > was only trying to do DeeDee a favor, sort of like (in > his words) telling someone she had a bit of spinach > stuck between her teeth. Spinach between the teeth and denim between the labia are two vastly different things. That Bozell can't see this tells me that he's a social moron. I would love to have been there for the scene, though, just to see the fireworks! http://www.cameltoe.org/ |
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A question . . .
Jonathan Ball wrote:
>>>>>> Diet alone doesn't make an Andreas Cahling or a Carl Lewis. They >>>>>> probably would be at the top of their sports regardless of diet -- >>>>>> healthy diet -- because of their dedication and drive. The only >>>>>> sport where one can eat chocolate donuts, drink beer, and have BBQ >>>>>> or pizza every day is golf, and it took John Daly almost a decade >>>>>> to win again. >>>>> >>>>> Don't forget bowling and curling (curling is just bowling on ice.) >>>>> >>>>> As a golfer, and a fit one at that, I somewhat resent the slams on >>>>> golfers, but then I remember reading about some incident back in >>>>> the 1960s with one of the good but not top rank golfers like Cary >>>>> Middlecoff or someone like that. At 8:30 in the morning the golf >>>>> pro was caught on the course with a cocktail by some reporter, who >>>>> asked the pro about it. The guy replied, "I'm a golfer, not an >>>>> athlete." (The same quote is more recently attributed to the >>>>> modern golfer Lee Westwood.) >>>> >>>> I know a lot of golfers like that. I also know a few who take up >>>> weight training and their toned muscles really screw up their swings. >>> >>> Here I am! That's exactly what happened to me. I had never stopped >>> weight training, but I began doing it with significantly more >>> intensity a couple of years ago, and my swing went right down the >>> dumper; never got it back, and now I scarcely have time to play. >> >> I just snicker now when golfers come to the gym and ask for advice. >> Seems that even if they just try to tone -- not bulk up or imitate >> Tiger's latest work out from one of the golf magazines -- they >> complain that it messes up their swings. >> >>>>> You might not want to look too closely at the site >>>>> www.sportnonsport.com. >>>> >>>> I'm not closed-minded. >>> >>> No, I know that; I'm just giving a slight tug on your chain ;-) >> >> The site is kind of funny. This time of year -- no baseball or >> football, basketball is still a bit far from play-offs -- my friends >> and I argue over what's sport and what isn't. We especially annoy the >> wives and girlfriends over figure skating, synchronized swimming, and >> dog shows ("are those chicks serious?!"). I don't recall anyone else >> ever questioning marathon running or triathalons as sport. > > I understand what he's driving at with his "competition" category, but I > don't accept most of it in terms of determining if an event is a sport. > >>>>> They purport to answer definitively the question of whether various >>>>> activities are sports or not. I applaud the effort, as I have had >>>>> the discussion with lots of people and I've also tried to develop a >>>>> set of meaningful criteria, but I don't agree with all the details >>>>> of this site's criteria. For example, in breaking down the degree >>>>> of competition, they give increased weight to whether or not there >>>>> is contact. >>>> >>>> I saw other criteria with which I take issue, most notably the >>>> lifespan factor. Running is something many people continue well >>>> beyond their 50s. The site says, "A longer lifespan would indicate a >>>> less physically demanding activity, and a lower score," but running >>>> a marathon at 65 is as gruelling and physically demanding as -- or >>>> more -- than it was when the runner was in his 20s and 30s. What >>>> percentage of the 20-39 year-old population can run 5 miles, much >>>> less 26.2? >>> >>> You do get their point, though. In terms of what they're trying to >>> accomplish with their delineation of criteria, lifespan is relevant. >>> When the sheer aging process, even excluding things like being beaten >>> on by opponents, starts to make you unable to do the sport at the >>> highest competitive levels, it seems to me to make it less of a >>> sport. That's one of the things that works against golf, by the way. >> >> I get the point, but there's the seniors tour for golf and masters >> divisions in running. > > Right, but that means they're no longer competing against the very best > the sport has to offer. Even *with* a seniors tour for golf, though, > look at the fact that there still are - or at least, were - highly > competitive golfers in their 40s on the regular tour. Lance Armstrong > won't be competing in any Tours de France in his 40s. I'm starting to wonder how competitive he'll be this year. He just surrendered the Tour of the Algarve to his teammate Floyd Landis. I'm not convinced that Team USPS is improved over last year; they signed Jose Azevedo, who was dumped from Team ONCE, to replace Heras (who is now riding with Liberty Seguros). I'm also unsure of Lance's training schedule between his divorce and new relationship with Sheryl Crow (Kristin Armstrong is MUCH hotter than Crow, fwiw). I do know he's skipping the Giro and other European events this year to concentrate on the TdF. Lance is also relying on some competition -- and friction -- *within* Team T-Mobile (formerly Telekom). That team has Ullrich rejoining it after financial concerns at Bianchi and Vinokourov. Ullrich and Vinokourov finished 2nd and 3rd behind Armstrong at last year's TdF. The big question about that team is if they will compete with each other or compete against other teams. > I think this is one of the factors that works a little bit against > baseball, too, compared to other major North American sports. There is > a fair number of position player over age 35 in baseball, but not too > many in football or basketball, and especially not in hockey. I remember some of those old knuckleballers like the Niekro brothers and Gaylord Perry pitching well into their 40s. I think Perry was still throwing when he was 45 with a sub 5.00 ERA. >> Most marathoners aren't trying to break the two-hour barrier; most are >> satisfied to run a new personal record (PR). >> >>> My criteria aren't quite as rigid as theirs, nor do I assign >>> numerical scores. I consider broadly whether athletic ability - that >>> guy's categories 1 and 2 lumped together - is required, and whether >>> or not the outcome is objectively determined. On those criteria, >>> golf is a sport, while gymnastics (which I like a lot) and figure >>> skating (which I detest) are not. Cycling and running very much are >>> sports. Golf doesn't require a *lot* of athletic ability, but the >>> skill factor is very high, and while I wouldn't call the physicality >>> of it "exertion", the timing, coordination and sense of one's body >>> are very demanding. >> >> Playing darts also requires tremendous skill and coordination. Would >> you rank golf much higher? > > Enough higher, sure. Plus, until the Casey Martin mess, golfers at > least had to walk some 7,000 yards. Dart throwers may walk a few hundred > yards in a night, back and forth to the bar, but it's not part of the > event. Quote of the day (read article for context): "I was pretty numb the first seven holes. I couldn't really feel much below my shoulders." http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/...ing%20Standard >>> I have a good friend who was having the discussion with some >>> colleagues in the office one time, and the breakdown occurred along >>> predictable sex lines. The women all insisted that synchronized >>> swimming was a sport; the men, naturally and correctly, scoffed at >>> it. One of the women whined, "But it's really HAAAAAARD!" One of >>> the guys, someone my friend says is one of the funnniest guys he's >>> ever known, replied, "So is lifting the front end of a Jeep. Is that >>> a sport?" The women all snarled at him. >> >> Hehe. We go through that often. My girlfriend goes into a trance when >> she watches figure skating. So do I, but I'm looking at something >> she's not looking at. > > Hehehehehehehe. > >> When the routine is over, she'll say something like, "Wasn't that >> incredible?" And I'll say something like, "Yeah, but the camera didn't >> stay on her cameltoe very long." Then, and only then, do I get to >> watch something more interesting. > > Did you hear the Phil Hendrie episode a couple of months ago in which > Steve Bozell, the chronic crybaby, was crying because his wife and all > her friends were furious with him, because he had come home when the > other girls were all visiting, and had said to his wife's friend > "DeeDee", "Nice cameltoe, DeeDee." He couldn't understand why his wife > had unloaded on him, saying he was tasteless and crude; as Steve saw it, > he was only trying to do DeeDee a favor, sort of like (in his words) > telling someone she had a bit of spinach stuck between her teeth. Yes! That was another one that kept me from falling asleep from laughing so hard. I'm amazed everytime I read an AP story about one of Bozell's lawsuits or. better yet, read as news on the radio or tv. >>>>> Anyway, you'll be chagrined to know that two events you would >>>>> clearly think of as "sports" are classed as non-sports: triathlon >>>>> and cycling. >>>> >>>> I see that. Let's put Daly on a bike against Lance and let the best >>>> athlete win. >>> >>> Cycling is clearly a sport. That site's fourth category, the nature >>> of the competition, is irrelevant. That category is only going to >>> help determine the likely spectators for the sport, not the intrinsic >>> quality of it. >> >> Spectatorship shouldn't be a criterion at all. > > I don't think the site author thinks he's suggesting it is. > >> Some sports are far more popular here than abroad, and some are far >> more popular abroad than they are here. Soccer, cycling, and cricket >> come to mind as examples of the latter. Interest in cycling has grown >> (thanks to a guy named Lance), but it doesn't lend itself to >> television like football or basketball. > > I watched a fair amount of cycling on TV when I lived in Switzerland in > 1971-72. I still remember some great charges Eddy Merckx made. One of my friends sent me a stack of DVDs of old TdF (including Merckx' 1972 win), Giro, and Paris-Roubaix races. Merckx and Hinault were incredible athletes. <...> |
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A question . . .
Karl Hungus wrote:
<...> >>Did you hear the Phil Hendrie episode a couple of >>months ago in which Steve Bozell, the chronic crybaby, >>was crying because his wife and all her friends were >>furious with him, because he had come home when the >>other girls were all visiting, and had said to his >>wife's friend "DeeDee", "Nice cameltoe, DeeDee." He >>couldn't understand why his wife had unloaded on him, >>saying he was tasteless and crude; as Steve saw it, he >>was only trying to do DeeDee a favor, sort of like (in >>his words) telling someone she had a bit of spinach >>stuck between her teeth. > > Spinach between the teeth and denim between the labia are two vastly > different things. Not to Mr Bozell. > That Bozell can't see this tells me that he's a social > moron. Careful, lol. He'll sue you for slander. A brief list of his litigation: http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/philhendrie/lawsuits.html <...> |
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A question . . .
Jonathan Ball wrote:
<...> >>> Did you hear the Phil Hendrie episode a couple of months ago in which >>> Steve Bozell, the chronic crybaby, was crying because his wife and >>> all her friends were furious with him, because he had come home when >>> the other girls were all visiting, and had said to his wife's friend >>> "DeeDee", "Nice cameltoe, DeeDee." He couldn't understand why his >>> wife had unloaded on him, saying he was tasteless and crude; as Steve >>> saw it, he was only trying to do DeeDee a favor, sort of like (in his >>> words) telling someone she had a bit of spinach stuck between her teeth. >> >> Yes! That was another one that kept me from falling asleep from >> laughing so hard. I'm amazed everytime I read an AP story about one of >> Bozell's lawsuits or. better yet, read as news on the radio or tv. > > Wait a minute! Are you telling me the AP and other news sources get > wind of these "lawsuits" and do stories about them?! Apparently one did. G. Gordon Liddy referred to Bozell from a story. The G. Gordon Liddy Show??? After finding out that his show material was used on as FACTUAL NEWS on Liddy's radio program, Phil does an "homage" to Liddys program in his own special way...Hilarious as Usual! Phil was going to play the actual audio of Liddy using Phils bit but it would be a copyright infringement to do so...But its not an infringement to use his material? http://www.philhendrieshow.com/lastshow_jan2002.html Steve Bozell has been taken to task by G. Gordon Liddy (of Watergate fame)on his nationally syndicated radio show for being one of the most litigous characters in America. http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/philhendrie/lawsuits.html He's also mentioned (and treated to an urban legend exposé) on: http://www.dcjt.demon.co.uk/dc/weblo...ve/mar403.html |
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A question . . .
"usual suspect" > wrote in message ... > Karl Hungus wrote: > <...> > >>Did you hear the Phil Hendrie episode a couple of > >>months ago in which Steve Bozell, the chronic crybaby, > >>was crying because his wife and all her friends were > >>furious with him, because he had come home when the > >>other girls were all visiting, and had said to his > >>wife's friend "DeeDee", "Nice cameltoe, DeeDee." He > >>couldn't understand why his wife had unloaded on him, > >>saying he was tasteless and crude; as Steve saw it, he > >>was only trying to do DeeDee a favor, sort of like (in > >>his words) telling someone she had a bit of spinach > >>stuck between her teeth. > > > > Spinach between the teeth and denim between the labia are two vastly > > different things. > > Not to Mr Bozell. > > > That Bozell can't see this tells me that he's a social > > moron. > > Careful, lol. He'll sue you for slander. A brief list of his litigation: > http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/philhendrie/lawsuits.html Yeah, I've seen that. Some of it reads like it may actually be true! Another fine example of this country's desperate need for tort reform. Karl -- "Owing to external conditions not yet fully understood, the daylight receiving range of all radio sets is considerably less than the range at night." --from the owner's manual of my 1930 A****er Kent AM radio |
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A question . . .
Karl Hungus wrote:
>><...> >> >>>>Did you hear the Phil Hendrie episode a couple of >>>>months ago in which Steve Bozell, the chronic crybaby, >>>>was crying because his wife and all her friends were >>>>furious with him, because he had come home when the >>>>other girls were all visiting, and had said to his >>>>wife's friend "DeeDee", "Nice cameltoe, DeeDee." He >>>>couldn't understand why his wife had unloaded on him, >>>>saying he was tasteless and crude; as Steve saw it, he >>>>was only trying to do DeeDee a favor, sort of like (in >>>>his words) telling someone she had a bit of spinach >>>>stuck between her teeth. >>> >>>Spinach between the teeth and denim between the labia are two vastly >>>different things. >> >>Not to Mr Bozell. >> >>>That Bozell can't see this tells me that he's a social >>>moron. >> >>Careful, lol. He'll sue you for slander. A brief list of his litigation: >>http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/philhendrie/lawsuits.html > > > Yeah, I've seen that. Some of it reads like it may actually be true! > Another fine example of this country's desperate need for tort reform. That's what GG Liddy said. Only one problem: Bozell is a fictional character. |
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A question . . .
"usual suspect" > wrote in message ... > Karl Hungus wrote: > >><...> > >> > >>>>Did you hear the Phil Hendrie episode a couple of > >>>>months ago in which Steve Bozell, the chronic crybaby, > >>>>was crying because his wife and all her friends were > >>>>furious with him, because he had come home when the > >>>>other girls were all visiting, and had said to his > >>>>wife's friend "DeeDee", "Nice cameltoe, DeeDee." He > >>>>couldn't understand why his wife had unloaded on him, > >>>>saying he was tasteless and crude; as Steve saw it, he > >>>>was only trying to do DeeDee a favor, sort of like (in > >>>>his words) telling someone she had a bit of spinach > >>>>stuck between her teeth. > >>> > >>>Spinach between the teeth and denim between the labia are two vastly > >>>different things. > >> > >>Not to Mr Bozell. > >> > >>>That Bozell can't see this tells me that he's a social > >>>moron. > >> > >>Careful, lol. He'll sue you for slander. A brief list of his litigation: > >>http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/philhendrie/lawsuits.html > > > > > > Yeah, I've seen that. Some of it reads like it may actually be true! > > Another fine example of this country's desperate need for tort reform. > > That's what GG Liddy said. Only one problem: Bozell is a fictional character. The part about the pool stick in the ass is what made me start to wonder . . .. Speaking of torts and tort reform, check this out: http://www.wisinfo.com/thereporter/n...14044768.shtml |
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A question . . .
Karl Hungus wrote:
<...> >>>>Careful, lol. He'll sue you for slander. A brief list of his litigation: >>>>http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/philhendrie/lawsuits.html >>> >>>Yeah, I've seen that. Some of it reads like it may actually be true! >>>Another fine example of this country's desperate need for tort reform. >> >>That's what GG Liddy said. Only one problem: Bozell is a fictional > character. > > The part about the pool stick in the ass is what made me start to wonder . . > . Hehe. The best part about Steve Bozell is the reaction of callers. > Speaking of torts and tort reform, check this out: > http://www.wisinfo.com/thereporter/n...14044768.shtml LOL! The report states Dumouchel gave an employee five minutes to get a supervisor to talk to him or their next contact would be “in the ocean with the sharks.” This one is more amusing than any hot coffee lawsuit. Hope it's dismissed. |
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A question . . .
"usual suspect" > wrote in message ... > Karl Hungus wrote: > <...> > >>>>Careful, lol. He'll sue you for slander. A brief list of his litigation: > >>>>http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/philhendrie/lawsuits.html > >>> > >>>Yeah, I've seen that. Some of it reads like it may actually be true! > >>>Another fine example of this country's desperate need for tort reform. > >> > >>That's what GG Liddy said. Only one problem: Bozell is a fictional > > character. > > > > The part about the pool stick in the ass is what made me start to wonder .. . > > . > > Hehe. The best part about Steve Bozell is the reaction of callers. > > > Speaking of torts and tort reform, check this out: > > http://www.wisinfo.com/thereporter/n...14044768.shtml > > LOL! > The report states Dumouchel gave an employee five minutes to get a > supervisor to talk to him or their next contact would be "in the ocean > with the sharks." > > This one is more amusing than any hot coffee lawsuit. Hope it's dismissed. From the article: "Timothy Dumouchel of West Bend wants $5,000 or three computers, and a lifetime supply of free Internet service from Charter Communications to settle what he says will be a small claims suit." So if cable TV is what turned his wife into a bloated pack animal, what the **** does he think free Internet is going to do?!? That's my question! Is it wrong for me to believe that the possibility of jail time for filing frivolous lawsuits shouldn't be considered beyond the pale? Anyway, I first ran across this article over in talk.politics.guns. Another poster said that it had already been tossed. Karl -- "Foolish liberals who are trying to read the Second Amendment out of the Constitution by claiming it's not an individual right or that it's too much of a public safety hazard don't see the danger in the big picture. They're courting disaster by encouraging others to use the same means to eliminate portions of the constitution they don't like." --Alan Dershowitz |
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he
here's a story with a nicely ripped vegan dude. yum : )
http://www.vegsource.com/articles2/m...big_strong.htm i remember seeing another one on that site, about a vegan bodybuilder, outlining his diet and fitness routine etc...hmmm....i don't think this is it, but it's the link from the bottom of the other one, same dude: http://www.vegsource.com/articles/mahler_weightlift.htm ooh, still not the one i was thinking of, but a vegan althlete, nonetheless: http://www.vegsource.com/articles/lewis_intro.htm if i find that other one, i'll post it! "Karl Hungus" > wrote in message news:66v1c.174926$uV3.737485@attbi_s51... > Can anyone here name a famous bodybuilder or athlete who gained prominence > in his or her area while practicing a vegetarian/vegan lifestyle, and whose > physical prowess can be said to have been obtained while practicing such a > diet? > > And mind you, when I say "athlete," I'm not talking about a golfer or an > egg-toss champion; rather, I'm looking for someone who excels in a > strength-intensive field of endeavor, such as any track & field event, power > lifting, gymnastics, etc. > > Regards, > > Karl > > -- > "Foolish liberals who are trying to read the Second Amendment out of the > Constitution by claiming it's not an individual right or that it's too much > of a public safety hazard don't see the danger in the big picture. They're > courting disaster by encouraging others to use the same means to eliminate > portions of the constitution they don't like." > --Alan Dershowitz > > > > |
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"katie" > wrote in message . cable.rogers.com... > i remember seeing another one on that site, about a vegan bodybuilder, > outlining his diet and fitness routine etc...hmmm....i don't think this is > it, but it's the link from the bottom of the other one, same dude: > http://www.vegsource.com/articles/mahler_weightlift.htm ================= So? He also promotes supplements, and lots of rice and tofu. Not the most kindly products to animals or the environement. Vegan is afterall, more than just what you eat, supposedly. Of course, if all you're looking for is the 'feeling' of doing something, then vegan can work for you. Of course, it doesn't automatically mean you're doing anything to help save animals or the environment. But, then you wouldn't be here posting to usenet if that were really a concern to you. snips... |
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rick etter wrote: "But, then you wouldn't be here posting to usenet if that were really a concern to you." ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The only concern that Dick Eater (rick etter) has here in usenet is to find suckers to engage him in hair splitting trivia about cow diet and grain production ethics. He does this not to protect the vitality of the beef industry but to have an excuse to ridicule and attack others. He and little penis partner Joni Ball suffer from great childhood trauma. They had mothers that abused them or fathers that taught them to hate women. Either way their sole purpose here is to ridcule and attack, and they prefer to do it to women more than anyone else. They are pathetic small penis syndromed losers that have no life other than the disruption of discourse on a subject they feel they are king of. Anyone can visit and argue on any usenet topic the way these two trolls do. Arguement is easy if your goal is to ridicule. Exchange of ideas is for adults that come form a good family and up bringing. The white trash background of Etter and Ball leaves them with the skills of social retards. Have fun with them. Use a female name in your header and decry the evils of meat and then sit back and watch them leap from their roosts to pounce like vultures with verbal insults and sexual connotations. * * |
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"Betty Bater" > wrote in message ... rick etter wrote: "But, then you wouldn't be here posting to usenet if that were really a concern to you." The only concern that Dick Eater (rick etter) has here in usenet is to find suckers to engage him in hair splitting trivia about cow diet and grain production ethics. He does this not to protect the vitality of the beef industry but to have an excuse to ridicule and attack others. =============== Nope, it's to cure the ignorance of those like master Bater here that have no clue as to their own stupidity and ignorance. He and little penis partner Joni Ball suffer from great childhood trauma. They had mothers that abused them or fathers that taught them to hate women. ================ LOL Nope, I love women. Maybe you're speaking about your fantasys, again. Either way their sole purpose here is to ridcule and attack, and they prefer to do it to women more than anyone else. ====================== Nope, maybe to your pea-brain it seems that way, but since you're about as stupid as vegans come, you're projecting your definciencies on others again, killer. They are pathetic small penis syndromed losers that have no life other than the disruption of discourse on a subject they feel they are king of. Anyone can visit and argue on any usenet topic the way these two trolls do. Arguement is easy if your goal is to ridicule. Exchange of ideas is for adults that come form a good family and up bringing. The white trash background of Etter and Ball leaves them with the skills of social retards. Have fun with them. Use a female name in your header and decry the evils of meat and then sit back and watch them leap from their roosts to pounce like vultures with verbal insults and sexual connotations. ================= You really have a bit of envy, don't you? What with all your penis talk. Why is it you can never address what I say? You already recognize that you have nothing to offer, ecspt more lys, delusions, and hatred? |
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rick etter wrote: > * > "But, then you wouldn't be here posting to usenet if that were really a > concern to you." > * > > Nope, it's to cure the ignorance of those like master Bater here that have > no clue as to their own stupidity and ignorance. > * > > LOL* Nope, I love women.* Maybe you're speaking about your fantasys, again. > * > > Nope, maybe to your pea-brain it seems that way, but since you're about as > stupid as vegans come, you're projecting your definciencies on others again, > killer. > > You really have a bit of envy, don't you?* What with all your penis talk. > Why is it you can never address what I say?* You already recognize that you > have nothing to offer, ecspt more lys, delusions, and hatred? rick etter wrote: * ================ * Nope.* What's the matter with you?* Too completely brainwashed and ignorant. * Show me where it is necessary for any cow to be fed crops in order to be * raised for meat production.* That you resort to delusion and stupidity * doesn't mean that reality takes a break, killer. * Why did you ignore the part about there already being a surplus of grain* in * the world?* finally figured out your stupidity has caught up with you, fool? Try to become better informed before * making any more of a fool of yourself. Note the intense level of frustration in Mr Etter. Why can't the world be as smart as he?Oh how frustrating it must be to be the smartest know-it-all on the subject of cow food in the whole ****ing world. You laughingly wrote: "Try to become better informed before making any more of a fool of yourself." Mr etter, do you have any idea how ironic this statement is that you've made above ? Along with Mr Ball, there is no greater a fool than you. Your investment in cow diet on these pages for so many weeks makes you what? Are we all to suppose that you are some suave sophistict that knows real respect? Respect as an expert in COW DIET? You,* like Mr Ball,* suffer from a severe inferiority complex! Are you feeling so small and insignificant... (so left out) that your biggest investment in life is seeking respect as an expert in COW DIET? Do you have any self esteem what so ever? Is your penis size so traumatizing, like that of Mr Ball, that you have to resort to flushing out suckers to engage you in this "who's the cow diet expert"? Dam your life must be pathetic! You and Ball have got to be either the same person or two of the biggest self-esteem lacking losers that I have ever come across anywhere at anytime! It's called being "a legend in your own mind. " You ain't all that! So many of us get a kick from observing belly sliding losers like you and Ball. The way you both demonstrate such an obvious need to ridicule others, ESPECIALLY WOMEN tells us all, that despite any down side we may face in life, at least we are not as big a loser as either of you two jokes! Go spank it in the dark. you cry baby pussy! I have slam dunked your ass here only because you have made it soooooooo easy! Isn't that any kind of clue? Do you not see how ****ing naked your mindset is here on these pages? Just because there are those like me that will entertain ourselves by engaging you any way shape or form does not in and of it's self grant you significance in any arena other than LOSER! Ok pussy, let's see you or the other joke do your best at a response. Call me stupid or something. Will it change why you two dwel here? NOT A CHANCE! You are what you both are... LOSERS! You're both pathetic! * |
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"Cindy Tracker" > wrote nothing new. Learn to post correctly, fool... snippage of ignorant spew by ignorant troll... |
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rick etter wrote: > "Cindy Tracker" > wrote nothing new. > > Learn to post correctly, fool... > > rick etter wrote: > > * ================ > * Nope.* What's the matter with you?* Too completely brainwashed and > ignorant. > * Show me where it is necessary for any cow to be fed crops in order > to be > * raised for meat production.* That you resort to delusion and > stupidity > * doesn't mean that reality takes a break, killer. > > * Why did you ignore the part about there already being a surplus of > grain* in > * the world?* finally figured out your stupidity has caught up with > you, fool? Try to become better informed before > * making any more of a fool of yourself. > > Note the intense level of frustration in Mr Etter. Why can't the world > be as smart as he?Oh how frustrating it must be to be the > smartest know-it-all on the subject of cow food in the whole ****ing > world. > You laughingly wrote: > > "Try to become better informed before making any more of a fool of > yourself." > > Mr etter, do you have any idea how ironic this statement is that > you've made above ? Along with Mr Ball, there is no greater a > fool than you. Your investment in cow diet on these pages for so many > weeks makes you what? Are we all to suppose that you > are some suave sophistict that knows real respect? Respect as an > expert in COW DIET? > > You,* like Mr Ball,* suffer from a severe inferiority complex! Are you > feeling so small and insignificant... (so left out) that your > biggest investment in life is seeking respect as an expert in COW > DIET? > > Do you have any self esteem what so ever? Is your penis size so > traumatizing, like that of Mr Ball, that you have to resort to > flushing out suckers to engage you in this "who's the cow diet > expert"? Dam your life must be pathetic! > > You and Ball have got to be either the same person or two of the > biggest self-esteem lacking losers that I have ever come > across anywhere at anytime! It's called being "a legend in your own > mind. " You ain't all that! > > So many of us get a kick from observing belly sliding losers like you > and Ball. The way you both demonstrate such an obvious > need to ridicule others, ESPECIALLY WOMEN tells us all, that despite > any down side we may face in life, at least we are > not as big a loser as either of you two jokes! > > Go spank it in the dark. you cry baby pussy! > > I have slam dunked your ass here only because you have made it > soooooooo easy! Isn't that any kind of clue? Do you not see > how ****ing naked your mindset is here on these pages? Just because > there are those like me that will entertain ourselves by > engaging you any way shape or form does not in and of it's self grant > you significance in any arena other than LOSER! > > Ok pussy, let's see you or the other joke do your best at a response. > Call me stupid or something. Will it change > why you two dwel here? NOT A CHANCE! > > You are what you both are... LOSERS! > > You're both pathetic! |
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you do remember that the person who originally posted was asking for info
about vegan bodybuilders/athletes, right? and i posted about a couple of vegan bodybuilders/athletes, right? that's what he was looking for. vegans: people who do not consume any animal products, or use products made out of animals or tested on them. so yes, vegan is more than what you eat. but technically, you could be a vegan and be incredibly unfriendly to the environment. you don't have to vow to save the environment or even give a damn to be a vegan. "rick etter" > wrote in message hlink.net... > > "katie" > wrote in message > . cable.rogers.com... > > > i remember seeing another one on that site, about a vegan bodybuilder, > > outlining his diet and fitness routine etc...hmmm....i don't think this is > > it, but it's the link from the bottom of the other one, same dude: > > http://www.vegsource.com/articles/mahler_weightlift.htm > ================= > So? He also promotes supplements, and lots of rice and tofu. > > Not the most kindly products to animals or the environement. Vegan is > afterall, more than just what you eat, supposedly. > > Of course, if all you're looking for is the 'feeling' of doing something, > then vegan can work for you. Of course, it doesn't automatically mean > you're doing anything to help save animals or the environment. But, then > you wouldn't be here posting to usenet if that were really a concern to you. > > > > snips... > > |
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"Cindy Tracker" > wrote nothing new. Learn to post correctly, fool... snippage of ignorant spew by ignorant troll... |
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"katie" > wrote in message e.rogers.com... > you do remember that the person who originally posted was asking for info > about vegan bodybuilders/athletes, right? and i posted about a couple of > vegan bodybuilders/athletes, right? ====================== Yes. that's what he was looking for. > vegans: people who do not consume any animal products, or use products made > out of animals or tested on them. ==================== That's the rumor. Don't see that here on usenet though. The point was that you posted about a guy that pushes supplements, and rice and tofu. All of which cause great amounts of death and suffering to animals, and environmental damage. veganism is a false religion as practiced by those on usenet. Just posting to usenet proves that they do not care about animals over their own conveninece and entertainment. so yes, vegan is more than what you eat. > but technically, you could be a vegan and be incredibly unfriendly to the > environment. ========================== No, you can't, and be true to the supposed ethic. >you don't have to vow to save the environment or even give a > damn to be a vegan. ===========v Than I suggest you look it up, from the guy who made up the word.... > > "rick etter" > wrote in message > hlink.net... > > > > "katie" > wrote in message > > . cable.rogers.com... > > > > > i remember seeing another one on that site, about a vegan bodybuilder, > > > outlining his diet and fitness routine etc...hmmm....i don't think this > is > > > it, but it's the link from the bottom of the other one, same dude: > > > http://www.vegsource.com/articles/mahler_weightlift.htm > > ================= > > So? He also promotes supplements, and lots of rice and tofu. > > > > Not the most kindly products to animals or the environement. Vegan is > > afterall, more than just what you eat, supposedly. > > > > Of course, if all you're looking for is the 'feeling' of doing something, > > then vegan can work for you. Of course, it doesn't automatically mean > > you're doing anything to help save animals or the environment. But, then > > you wouldn't be here posting to usenet if that were really a concern to > you. > > > > > > > > snips... > > > > > > |
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