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Ian Widdows 20-02-2004 09:00 AM

vegan children
 
I am currently collating stories/anecdotes about raising vegan children. I
would appreciate anything on any of the subjects below:

Nutrition

· Different (ages pregnancy etc)

· Prenatal/pregnancy (and before? E.g folic acid)



Birth

· Drugs

· Vit K

· Birth plan

· stitches



Infants

· Nappies

· Cleaning fluids?

· Bottles

· Nutrition

· Breastfeeding

· Formula

· Weening

· Attitudes

· Clothes

· Innoculations

Young children

· Being different (other peoples' parties)

· Soap/toothepaste/shampoo.. (soap when not at home)

· Health (inc. medicine/lice/worms/verucas)ecinacea/supplements

· Nutrition

· School(routine/people/lessons/teachers)

· Uniform (sports)/dance/musical instruments

· Clothing/shoes

· Parties and treats

· Friends

· Simple recipes

· Drinks

· Sweets/Snacks and "Fast food"

· Puddings

· Special meals/occasions (e.g. pancake day/Christmas/Easter..)

· Travelling

· Faddy about food/arguing.!

· Insects

· Rats/mice/cockroaches/Wasps

Older children

· Eating out

· Eating disorders

· Holidays/holiday clubs./school trips



Recipes/ideas

· Breakfast (inc. different soya milks)

· Lunch

· Dinner

· Snacks



Contacts (websites, organisations.. etc)



Books/resources



Cenuij 21-02-2004 04:08 AM

vegan children
 
I hope you dont have any kids because your going to keep a lot of lifes
pleasures from them with your misguided beliefs.

This is no way to bring up a child...

shame on you


"Ian Widdows" > wrote in message
...
> I am currently collating stories/anecdotes about raising vegan children. I
> would appreciate anything on any of the subjects below:
>
> Nutrition
>
> · Different (ages pregnancy etc)
>
> · Prenatal/pregnancy (and before? E.g folic acid)
>
>
>
> Birth
>
> · Drugs
>
> · Vit K
>
> · Birth plan
>
> · stitches
>
>
>
> Infants
>
> · Nappies
>
> · Cleaning fluids?
>
> · Bottles
>
> · Nutrition
>
> · Breastfeeding
>
> · Formula
>
> · Weening
>
> · Attitudes
>
> · Clothes
>
> · Innoculations
>
> Young children
>
> · Being different (other peoples' parties)
>
> · Soap/toothepaste/shampoo.. (soap when not at home)
>
> · Health (inc. medicine/lice/worms/verucas)ecinacea/supplements
>
> · Nutrition
>
> · School(routine/people/lessons/teachers)
>
> · Uniform (sports)/dance/musical instruments
>
> · Clothing/shoes
>
> · Parties and treats
>
> · Friends
>
> · Simple recipes
>
> · Drinks
>
> · Sweets/Snacks and "Fast food"
>
> · Puddings
>
> · Special meals/occasions (e.g. pancake day/Christmas/Easter..)
>
> · Travelling
>
> · Faddy about food/arguing.!
>
> · Insects
>
> · Rats/mice/cockroaches/Wasps
>
> Older children
>
> · Eating out
>
> · Eating disorders
>
> · Holidays/holiday clubs./school trips
>
>
>
> Recipes/ideas
>
> · Breakfast (inc. different soya milks)
>
> · Lunch
>
> · Dinner
>
> · Snacks
>
>
>
> Contacts (websites, organisations.. etc)
>
>
>
> Books/resources
>
>




krakatoa 22-02-2004 05:07 AM

vegan children
 
If by "lifes pleasures" you mean obesity, heart disease, diabetes, etc. -
you're right.

If your kids get all of their pleasures out of life from eating animals,
that's pretty sad.

Shame on you for being so damn ignorant.



"Cenuij" <cen> wrote in message
.. .
> I hope you dont have any kids because your going to keep a lot of lifes
> pleasures from them with your misguided beliefs.
>
> This is no way to bring up a child...
>
> shame on you
>
>
> "Ian Widdows" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I am currently collating stories/anecdotes about raising vegan children.

I
> > would appreciate anything on any of the subjects below:
> >
> > Nutrition
> >
> > · Different (ages pregnancy etc)
> >
> > · Prenatal/pregnancy (and before? E.g folic acid)
> >
> >
> >
> > Birth
> >
> > · Drugs
> >
> > · Vit K
> >
> > · Birth plan
> >
> > · stitches
> >
> >
> >
> > Infants
> >
> > · Nappies
> >
> > · Cleaning fluids?
> >
> > · Bottles
> >
> > · Nutrition
> >
> > · Breastfeeding
> >
> > · Formula
> >
> > · Weening
> >
> > · Attitudes
> >
> > · Clothes
> >
> > · Innoculations
> >
> > Young children
> >
> > · Being different (other peoples' parties)
> >
> > · Soap/toothepaste/shampoo.. (soap when not at home)
> >
> > · Health (inc. medicine/lice/worms/verucas)ecinacea/supplements
> >
> > · Nutrition
> >
> > · School(routine/people/lessons/teachers)
> >
> > · Uniform (sports)/dance/musical instruments
> >
> > · Clothing/shoes
> >
> > · Parties and treats
> >
> > · Friends
> >
> > · Simple recipes
> >
> > · Drinks
> >
> > · Sweets/Snacks and "Fast food"
> >
> > · Puddings
> >
> > · Special meals/occasions (e.g. pancake day/Christmas/Easter..)
> >
> > · Travelling
> >
> > · Faddy about food/arguing.!
> >
> > · Insects
> >
> > · Rats/mice/cockroaches/Wasps
> >
> > Older children
> >
> > · Eating out
> >
> > · Eating disorders
> >
> > · Holidays/holiday clubs./school trips
> >
> >
> >
> > Recipes/ideas
> >
> > · Breakfast (inc. different soya milks)
> >
> > · Lunch
> >
> > · Dinner
> >
> > · Snacks
> >
> >
> >
> > Contacts (websites, organisations.. etc)
> >
> >
> >
> > Books/resources
> >
> >

>
>




rick etter 22-02-2004 05:09 AM

vegan children
 

"krakatoa" > wrote in message
news:RVVZb.96587$jk2.454390@attbi_s53...
> If by "lifes pleasures" you mean obesity, heart disease, diabetes, etc. -
> you're right.
>
> If your kids get all of their pleasures out of life from eating animals,
> that's pretty sad.
>
> Shame on you for being so damn ignorant.

==================
And you. An unhealthy diet is just that, unhealthy. Those can be vegan
too...






snippage...



krakatoa 22-02-2004 05:13 AM

vegan children
 
What is your point?

The poster said "that is no way to bring up a child" and "misguided
beliefs".

Can a vegan diet be unhealthy? Of course! Just like *any* other diet.

Is a vegan diet inherently unhealthy - no.



"rick etter" > wrote in message
...
>
> "krakatoa" > wrote in message
> news:RVVZb.96587$jk2.454390@attbi_s53...
> > If by "lifes pleasures" you mean obesity, heart disease, diabetes,

etc. -
> > you're right.
> >
> > If your kids get all of their pleasures out of life from eating animals,
> > that's pretty sad.
> >
> > Shame on you for being so damn ignorant.

> ==================
> And you. An unhealthy diet is just that, unhealthy. Those can be vegan
> too...
>
>
>
>
>
>
> snippage...
>
>




rick etter 22-02-2004 05:26 AM

vegan children
 

"krakatoa" > wrote in message
news:K%VZb.98077$uV3.571335@attbi_s51...
> What is your point?
>
> The poster said "that is no way to bring up a child" and "misguided
> beliefs".
>
> Can a vegan diet be unhealthy? Of course! Just like *any* other diet.
>
> Is a vegan diet inherently unhealthy - no.

====================
No less so than any other.


>
>
>
> "rick etter" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "krakatoa" > wrote in message
> > news:RVVZb.96587$jk2.454390@attbi_s53...
> > > If by "lifes pleasures" you mean obesity, heart disease, diabetes,

> etc. -
> > > you're right.
> > >
> > > If your kids get all of their pleasures out of life from eating

animals,
> > > that's pretty sad.
> > >
> > > Shame on you for being so damn ignorant.

> > ==================
> > And you. An unhealthy diet is just that, unhealthy. Those can be vegan
> > too...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > snippage...
> >
> >

>
>




krakatoa 22-02-2004 05:43 AM

vegan children
 
That was my point. That ignoramus said "that is no way to bring up a child".

I challenge the poster to go take a walk around a mall or school and tell me
that the average diet of today's youth is any way to bring up a child.

Rampant childhood diabetes and obesity, and you think vegans are the one's
hurting their children!?



"rick etter" > wrote in message
...
>
> "krakatoa" > wrote in message
> news:K%VZb.98077$uV3.571335@attbi_s51...
> > What is your point?
> >
> > The poster said "that is no way to bring up a child" and "misguided
> > beliefs".
> >
> > Can a vegan diet be unhealthy? Of course! Just like *any* other diet.
> >
> > Is a vegan diet inherently unhealthy - no.

> ====================
> No less so than any other.
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > "rick etter" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "krakatoa" > wrote in message
> > > news:RVVZb.96587$jk2.454390@attbi_s53...
> > > > If by "lifes pleasures" you mean obesity, heart disease, diabetes,

> > etc. -
> > > > you're right.
> > > >
> > > > If your kids get all of their pleasures out of life from eating

> animals,
> > > > that's pretty sad.
> > > >
> > > > Shame on you for being so damn ignorant.
> > > ==================
> > > And you. An unhealthy diet is just that, unhealthy. Those can be

vegan
> > > too...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > snippage...
> > >
> > >

> >
> >

>
>




Kriss Oethur 22-02-2004 06:42 AM

vegan children
 


krakatoa wrote:

> That was my point. That ignoramus said "that is no way to bring up a child".
>
> I challenge the poster to go take a walk around a mall or school and tell me
> that the average diet of today's youth is any way to bring up a child.
>
> Rampant childhood diabetes and obesity, and you think vegans are the one's
> hurting their children!?
>


Excellent point! Today's obesity rates are not only a financial disaster for tax
payers flipping the medical bills, it is disgusting image to the billions of
starving people banging on the gates of America. A nation of fat slobs is not
what I want as an image for my country. A true patriotic person would stand up
against that fattening of children. What I see in our nation is nothing less
than child abuse! What percent of Rush Limbaugh listeners are fighting obesity
in our nation? It was only after the excellently written book by Al Franken,
"Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot" that the fat man Limbaugh went on the big
diet. Before then he sat fat as the nations number one cheer leader of the
ignorant spewing bullshit about "liberals" and "vegetarians" as though they were
communists infiltrators.

>
> "rick etter" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "krakatoa" > wrote in message
> > news:K%VZb.98077$uV3.571335@attbi_s51...
> > > What is your point?
> > >
> > > The poster said "that is no way to bring up a child" and "misguided
> > > beliefs".
> > >
> > > Can a vegan diet be unhealthy? Of course! Just like *any* other diet.
> > >
> > > Is a vegan diet inherently unhealthy - no.

> > ====================
> > No less so than any other.
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "rick etter" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > "krakatoa" > wrote in message
> > > > news:RVVZb.96587$jk2.454390@attbi_s53...
> > > > > If by "lifes pleasures" you mean obesity, heart disease, diabetes,
> > > etc. -
> > > > > you're right.
> > > > >
> > > > > If your kids get all of their pleasures out of life from eating

> > animals,
> > > > > that's pretty sad.
> > > > >
> > > > > Shame on you for being so damn ignorant.
> > > > ==================
> > > > And you. An unhealthy diet is just that, unhealthy. Those can be

> vegan
> > > > too...
> > > >
> > >



rick etter 22-02-2004 09:57 AM

vegan children
 

"krakatoa" > wrote in message
news:wrWZb.32944$Xp.140888@attbi_s54...
> That was my point. That ignoramus said "that is no way to bring up a

child".
>
> I challenge the poster to go take a walk around a mall or school and tell

me
> that the average diet of today's youth is any way to bring up a child.
>
> Rampant childhood diabetes and obesity, and you think vegans are the one's
> hurting their children!?

=====================
Not the issue. Vegan does not automatically mean a healthier diet, period.
Why can't you post like normal people, and place your stupidity in-line with
the rest of the posts?

>
>
>
> "rick etter" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "krakatoa" > wrote in message
> > news:K%VZb.98077$uV3.571335@attbi_s51...
> > > What is your point?
> > >
> > > The poster said "that is no way to bring up a child" and "misguided
> > > beliefs".
> > >
> > > Can a vegan diet be unhealthy? Of course! Just like *any* other diet.
> > >
> > > Is a vegan diet inherently unhealthy - no.

> > ====================
> > No less so than any other.
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "rick etter" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > "krakatoa" > wrote in message
> > > > news:RVVZb.96587$jk2.454390@attbi_s53...
> > > > > If by "lifes pleasures" you mean obesity, heart disease, diabetes,
> > > etc. -
> > > > > you're right.
> > > > >
> > > > > If your kids get all of their pleasures out of life from eating

> > animals,
> > > > > that's pretty sad.
> > > > >
> > > > > Shame on you for being so damn ignorant.
> > > > ==================
> > > > And you. An unhealthy diet is just that, unhealthy. Those can be

> vegan
> > > > too...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > snippage...
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >

> >
> >

>
>




Barney Fifet 22-02-2004 09:58 AM

vegan children
 


rick etter wrote:

> "krakatoa" > wrote in message
> news:wrWZb.32944$Xp.140888@attbi_s54...
> > That was my point. That ignoramus said "that is no way to bring up a

> child".
> >
> > I challenge the poster to go take a walk around a mall or school and tell

> me
> > that the average diet of today's youth is any way to bring up a child.
> >
> > Rampant childhood diabetes and obesity, and you think vegans are the one's
> > hurting their children!?

> =====================
> Not the issue. Vegan does not automatically mean a healthier diet, period.
> Why can't you post like normal people, and place your stupidity in-line with
> the rest of the posts?
>


Wait. If that is not the issue (and it may not be) who says that your attacking
fowl mouthed rants are anymore on topic either. You could give a shit if vegans
are healthier. What you are here for is to troll for an excuse to be abusive. A
bully that seek soft targets Rush limbaugh style.

Why pretend you are on topic or on the issue. Each time you post it is always
about that opportunity to justify an abrasive abusive tone. Bully coward shit is
all your commentary demonstrates nothing more!

>
> >
> >
> >
> > "rick etter" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "krakatoa" > wrote in message
> > > news:K%VZb.98077$uV3.571335@attbi_s51...
> > > > What is your point?
> > > >
> > > > The poster said "that is no way to bring up a child" and "misguided
> > > > beliefs".
> > > >
> > > > Can a vegan diet be unhealthy? Of course! Just like *any* other diet.
> > > >
> > > > Is a vegan diet inherently unhealthy - no.
> > > ====================
> > > No less so than any other.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "rick etter" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > >
> > > > > "krakatoa" > wrote in message
> > > > > news:RVVZb.96587$jk2.454390@attbi_s53...
> > > > > > If by "lifes pleasures" you mean obesity, heart disease, diabetes,
> > > > etc. -
> > > > > > you're right.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If your kids get all of their pleasures out of life from eating
> > > animals,
> > > > > > that's pretty sad.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Shame on you for being so damn ignorant.
> > > > > ==================
> > > > > And you. An unhealthy diet is just that, unhealthy. Those can be

> > vegan
> > > > > too...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > snippage...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >

> >
> >



rick etter 22-02-2004 10:24 AM

vegan children
 

"Barney Fifet" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> rick etter wrote:
>
> > "krakatoa" > wrote in message
> > news:wrWZb.32944$Xp.140888@attbi_s54...
> > > That was my point. That ignoramus said "that is no way to bring up a

> > child".
> > >
> > > I challenge the poster to go take a walk around a mall or school and

tell
> > me
> > > that the average diet of today's youth is any way to bring up a child.
> > >
> > > Rampant childhood diabetes and obesity, and you think vegans are the

one's
> > > hurting their children!?

> > =====================
> > Not the issue. Vegan does not automatically mean a healthier diet,

period.
> > Why can't you post like normal people, and place your stupidity in-line

with
> > the rest of the posts?
> >

>
> Wait. If that is not the issue (and it may not be) who says that your

attacking
> fowl mouthed rants are anymore on topic either.

==========================
I suggest you go back to third grade for another year and learn to read.
Quote one post where I have been "fowl mouthed". ROTFLMAO



You could give a shit if vegans
> are healthier. What you are here for is to troll for an excuse to be

abusive. A
> bully that seek soft targets Rush limbaugh style.

===========================
LOL Having anice little rant are we little boy? Does your mommy know
you're not in bed?
Does she know that *you* use "fowl mouthed" language? ROTFLMAO


>
> Why pretend you are on topic or on the issue. Each time you post it is

always
> about that opportunity to justify an abrasive abusive tone. Bully coward

shit is
> all your commentary demonstrates nothing more!

========================
And your posts are what? What a hoot, loser. Keep on goose-stepping there
with your militia butt-buddies, fool.


>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "rick etter" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > "krakatoa" > wrote in message
> > > > news:K%VZb.98077$uV3.571335@attbi_s51...
> > > > > What is your point?
> > > > >
> > > > > The poster said "that is no way to bring up a child" and

"misguided
> > > > > beliefs".
> > > > >
> > > > > Can a vegan diet be unhealthy? Of course! Just like *any* other

diet.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is a vegan diet inherently unhealthy - no.
> > > > ====================
> > > > No less so than any other.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "rick etter" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "krakatoa" > wrote in message
> > > > > > news:RVVZb.96587$jk2.454390@attbi_s53...
> > > > > > > If by "lifes pleasures" you mean obesity, heart disease,

diabetes,
> > > > > etc. -
> > > > > > > you're right.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If your kids get all of their pleasures out of life from

eating
> > > > animals,
> > > > > > > that's pretty sad.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Shame on you for being so damn ignorant.
> > > > > > ==================
> > > > > > And you. An unhealthy diet is just that, unhealthy. Those can

be
> > > vegan
> > > > > > too...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > snippage...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >

>




krakatoa 22-02-2004 10:25 AM

vegan children
 
"rick etter" > wrote in message
...

> Not the issue. Vegan does not automatically mean a healthier diet,

period.
> Why can't you post like normal people, and place your stupidity in-line

with
> the rest of the posts?


There. Now my post is in line with your stupidity - just like you wanted.



Barney Fifet 22-02-2004 10:34 AM

vegan children
 


rick etter wrote:

>
> > Why pretend you are on topic or on the issue. Each time you post it is

> always
> > about that opportunity to justify an abrasive abusive tone. Bully coward

> shit is
> > all your commentary demonstrates nothing more!

> ========================
> And your posts are what? What a hoot, loser. Keep on goose-stepping there
> with your militia butt-buddies, fool.
>
>


My posts are not fake. I don't claim to be here to defend farmers or hunters.
You come here to tell everyone how they are stupid and that only you know
everything about the topic of this group. You act like it is your business what
other people eat. I don't bother this shit. I only recognize that you and Ball
are abusive shumcks that think you ****ing pedantic gods when all you are
abusive bully cowards that like to feel big by beating up and rabbit huggers!
You're ****ing cowards is what you are!

off to sleep you're exhausting


rick etter 22-02-2004 10:34 AM

vegan children
 

"krakatoa" > wrote in message
news:7A_Zb.98769$uV3.574628@attbi_s51...
> "rick etter" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > Not the issue. Vegan does not automatically mean a healthier diet,

> period.
> > Why can't you post like normal people, and place your stupidity in-line

> with
> > the rest of the posts?

>
> There. Now my post is in line with your stupidity - just like you wanted.

======================
I see you can't address the issue though, eh killer?


>
>




rick etter 22-02-2004 11:09 AM

vegan children
 

"Barney Fifet" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> rick etter wrote:
>
> >
> > > Why pretend you are on topic or on the issue. Each time you post it is

> > always
> > > about that opportunity to justify an abrasive abusive tone. Bully

coward
> > shit is
> > > all your commentary demonstrates nothing more!

> > ========================
> > And your posts are what? What a hoot, loser. Keep on goose-stepping

there
> > with your militia butt-buddies, fool.
> >
> >

>
> My posts are not fake. I don't claim to be here to defend farmers or

hunters.
> You come here to tell everyone how they are stupid and that only you know
> everything about the topic of this group. You act like it is your business

what
> other people eat.

===========================
Nope. I've never told anyone what they have to eat. i just point out their
ignorance and stupidity. Kinda like what I've been doing to you.


I don't bother this shit. I only recognize that you and Ball
> are abusive shumcks that think you ****ing pedantic gods when all you are
> abusive bully cowards that like to feel big by beating up and rabbit

huggers!
> You're ****ing cowards is what you are!

========================
Thanks for the fine example of "fowl langauge". ROTFLMAO Yep, you'd
better get to bed, third graders need their rest, and you have more need for
learning than most 3rd graders, eh stupid?



>
> off to sleep you're exhausting
>




usual suspect 22-02-2004 07:09 PM

vegan children
 
krakatoa wrote:

STOP TOP POSTING

> If by "lifes pleasures" you mean obesity, heart disease, diabetes, etc. -
> you're right.


I've seen obese vegetarians. Vegetarians die, too, you know.

> If your kids get all of their pleasures out of life from eating animals,
> that's pretty sad.


They probably get pleasure out of many other activities. Why shouldn't
they enjoy their food?

> Shame on you for being so damn ignorant.


Shame on you for yours. Your diet also kills animals, you just abstain
from eating them. Do you value thousands frogs and birds and mice any
more than you value one pig or chicken?


usual suspect 22-02-2004 07:11 PM

vegan children
 
crap atoa wrote:
> What is your point?


STOP TOP POSTING

> The poster said "that is no way to bring up a child" and "misguided
> beliefs".


Correct.

> Can a vegan diet be unhealthy? Of course! Just like *any* other diet.
>
> Is a vegan diet inherently unhealthy - no.


Neither is an omnivorous diet.


krakatoa 22-02-2004 07:26 PM

vegan children
 
> STOP TOP POSTING

Ooooohhhh. All caps. You must mean business.

>
> > If by "lifes pleasures" you mean obesity, heart disease, diabetes,

etc. -
> > you're right.

>
> I've seen obese vegetarians. Vegetarians die, too, you know.


I was talking about vegans. I know they die. What is your point?
You ever wonder why Americans are so fat? Why heart disease
is the number one killer?

Countries who eat less meat and dairy don't have these problems. Period.


>
> > If your kids get all of their pleasures out of life from eating animals,
> > that's pretty sad.

>
> They probably get pleasure out of many other activities. Why shouldn't
> they enjoy their food?
>


They should - but implying that not feeding them meat is depriving them from
"lifes pleasures" is moronic.


> > Shame on you for being so damn ignorant.

>
> Shame on you for yours. Your diet also kills animals, you just abstain
> from eating them. Do you value thousands frogs and birds and mice any
> more than you value one pig or chicken?
>


When did I say that my diet doesn't kill animals?
Are you even reading the posts?

The post was about a vegan diet being healthy for children - that's what
the ignorant statement was addressing.
If you think a vegan diet is unhealthy for children - you are ignorant of
the facts.

When did anyone say anything about killing or not killing animals?

I know your a troll, but try to stay with us here...




krakatoa 22-02-2004 07:26 PM

vegan children
 

"usual suspect" > wrote in message
...
> Neither is an omnivorous diet.
>


Never said it was.



usual suspect 22-02-2004 07:49 PM

vegan children
 
krakhead wrote:
>>STOP TOP POSTING

>
>
> Ooooohhhh. All caps. You must mean business.
>
>
>>>If by "lifes pleasures" you mean obesity, heart disease, diabetes,

>
> etc. -
>
>>>you're right.

>>
>>I've seen obese vegetarians. Vegetarians die, too, you know.

>
> I was talking about vegans.


I also know obese vegans. Derek Nash of Eastbourne (UK) is one of the
fattest vegans on the planet. How in the world does a vegan grow to over
220 pounds?

> I know they die. What is your point?


Mortality rates don't differ significantly between vegans and omnivores.
If anything, ethnic groups with the longest lifespans tend to be omnivores.

> You ever wonder why Americans are so fat?


Combination of reasons: lack of exercise, lack of physical exertion,
poor diet.

> Why heart disease is the number one killer?


****witted way to ask why Americans have heart disease at high rates.
The amount of saturated fats plays a big role, but one must note that
veg-ns consume too much saturated fat, too. The amount of hydrogenated
oils in food labelled especially for veg-ns is alarming.

> Countries who eat less meat and dairy don't have these problems. Period.


Ipse dixit. Average lifespan in the US is about 20 years longer than in
India, even after adjusting for infant mortality. Guess what the leading
causes of deaths in adults in India a cancer, heart disease,
diabetes, etc. Same as here.

>>>If your kids get all of their pleasures out of life from eating animals,
>>>that's pretty sad.

>>
>>They probably get pleasure out of many other activities. Why shouldn't
>>they enjoy their food?

>
> They should -


Correct.

> but implying that not feeding them meat is depriving them from
> "lifes pleasures" is moronic.


Not if they enjoy eating meat. Most people, including most children, do.

>>>Shame on you for being so damn ignorant.

>>
>>Shame on you for yours. Your diet also kills animals, you just abstain
>>from eating them. Do you value thousands frogs and birds and mice any
>>more than you value one pig or chicken?

>
> When did I say that my diet doesn't kill animals?


Glad you admit it, but answer the question. Why is it okay to kill
*thousands* of animals but wrong to eat *one*?

> Are you even reading the posts?


Yes.

> The post was about a vegan diet being healthy for children - that's what
> the ignorant statement was addressing.


A *carefully planned* veg-n diet can provide adequate nutrition for a
child. I think we have enough examples, though, of parents malnourishing
their children. A varied diet is still best for adults and for children.

> If you think a vegan diet is unhealthy for children - you are ignorant of
> the facts.


No, I'm not. You're the one who's making categorical statements about
meat -- which can be lean and part of a healthy diet -- and comparing
only to a well-balanced veg-n diet. IOW, you're comparing apples to
oranges. Not all veg-n diets are healthy.

<...>


rick etter 22-02-2004 08:44 PM

vegan children
 

"krakatoa" > wrote in message
news:iv6_b.35229$Xp.163671@attbi_s54...
> > STOP TOP POSTING

>
> Ooooohhhh. All caps. You must mean business.
>
> >
> > > If by "lifes pleasures" you mean obesity, heart disease, diabetes,

> etc. -
> > > you're right.

> >
> > I've seen obese vegetarians. Vegetarians die, too, you know.

>
> I was talking about vegans. I know they die. What is your point?
> You ever wonder why Americans are so fat? Why heart disease
> is the number one killer?
>
> Countries who eat less meat and dairy don't have these problems. Period.
>
>
> >
> > > If your kids get all of their pleasures out of life from eating

animals,
> > > that's pretty sad.

> >
> > They probably get pleasure out of many other activities. Why shouldn't
> > they enjoy their food?
> >

>
> They should - but implying that not feeding them meat is depriving them

from
> "lifes pleasures" is moronic.
>
>
> > > Shame on you for being so damn ignorant.

> >
> > Shame on you for yours. Your diet also kills animals, you just abstain
> > from eating them. Do you value thousands frogs and birds and mice any
> > more than you value one pig or chicken?
> >

>
> When did I say that my diet doesn't kill animals?
> Are you even reading the posts?
>
> The post was about a vegan diet being healthy for children

=================
By themselves, no they are not. Better read up some. They do not provide
all the nutrients needed.



- that's what
> the ignorant statement was addressing.
> If you think a vegan diet is unhealthy for children - you are ignorant of
> the facts.

======================
No, you are. By itself, it is unhealthy. Period.


>
> When did anyone say anything about killing or not killing animals?
>
> I know your a troll, but try to stay with us here...

=================
Try to know what you're talking about and you won't be called on your
stupidity..


>
>
>




krakatoa 22-02-2004 10:29 PM

vegan children
 

"usual suspect" > wrote in message
...
> Glad you admit it, but answer the question. Why is it okay to kill
> *thousands* of animals but wrong to eat *one*?


Stop changing the subject, Karen.



krakatoa 22-02-2004 11:12 PM

vegan children
 

"rick etter" > wrote in message
...
>
> "krakatoa" > wrote in message
> news:iv6_b.35229$Xp.163671@attbi_s54...
> > > STOP TOP POSTING

> >
> > Ooooohhhh. All caps. You must mean business.
> >
> > >
> > > > If by "lifes pleasures" you mean obesity, heart disease, diabetes,

> > etc. -
> > > > you're right.
> > >
> > > I've seen obese vegetarians. Vegetarians die, too, you know.

> >
> > I was talking about vegans. I know they die. What is your point?
> > You ever wonder why Americans are so fat? Why heart disease
> > is the number one killer?
> >
> > Countries who eat less meat and dairy don't have these problems. Period.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > > If your kids get all of their pleasures out of life from eating

> animals,
> > > > that's pretty sad.
> > >
> > > They probably get pleasure out of many other activities. Why shouldn't
> > > they enjoy their food?
> > >

> >
> > They should - but implying that not feeding them meat is depriving them

> from
> > "lifes pleasures" is moronic.
> >
> >
> > > > Shame on you for being so damn ignorant.
> > >
> > > Shame on you for yours. Your diet also kills animals, you just abstain
> > > from eating them. Do you value thousands frogs and birds and mice any
> > > more than you value one pig or chicken?
> > >

> >
> > When did I say that my diet doesn't kill animals?
> > Are you even reading the posts?
> >
> > The post was about a vegan diet being healthy for children

> =================
> By themselves, no they are not. Better read up some. They do not

provide
> all the nutrients needed.


Yes they do.
Shit, even good ol' Dr. Spock advised people to feed their kids vegan diets.

>
>
> - that's what
> > the ignorant statement was addressing.
> > If you think a vegan diet is unhealthy for children - you are ignorant

of
> > the facts.

> ======================
> No, you are. By itself, it is unhealthy. Period.


That's your *opinion*. Period.

>
> >
> > When did anyone say anything about killing or not killing animals?
> >
> > I know your a troll, but try to stay with us here...

> =================
> Try to know what you're talking about and you won't be called on your
> stupidity..


Ummmm. Whatever.




usual suspect 22-02-2004 11:14 PM

vegan children
 
krakhead wrote:
>>Glad you admit it, but answer the question. Why is it okay to kill
>>*thousands* of animals but wrong to eat *one*?

>
> Stop changing the subject,


I didn't change the subject. Answer my question, pro-vegan activist.

> Karen.


That isn't my name, krakhead.


krakatoa 22-02-2004 11:21 PM

vegan children
 

"usual suspect" > wrote in message
...
> krakhead wrote:
> >>Glad you admit it, but answer the question. Why is it okay to kill
> >>*thousands* of animals but wrong to eat *one*?

> >
> > Stop changing the subject,

>
> I didn't change the subject. Answer my question, pro-vegan activist.


Yes, you did change the subject.
There is not one post where I say anything about killing or not killing
animals.
Pro-vegan activist? Huh?
So thinking that a vegan diet can be healthy for a child makes me an
activist?

I think you might be generalizing...or projecting.

I don't care about killing animals. I think being vegan is a healthy way to
eat.
I'm not vegan because I love animals, I'm vegan because I hate vegetables.



rick etter 22-02-2004 11:32 PM

vegan children
 

"krakatoa" > wrote in message
news:jP9_b.102610$uV3.584676@attbi_s51...
>
> "rick etter" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "krakatoa" > wrote in message
> > news:iv6_b.35229$Xp.163671@attbi_s54...
> > > > STOP TOP POSTING
> > >
> > > Ooooohhhh. All caps. You must mean business.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > If by "lifes pleasures" you mean obesity, heart disease, diabetes,
> > > etc. -
> > > > > you're right.
> > > >
> > > > I've seen obese vegetarians. Vegetarians die, too, you know.
> > >
> > > I was talking about vegans. I know they die. What is your point?
> > > You ever wonder why Americans are so fat? Why heart disease
> > > is the number one killer?
> > >
> > > Countries who eat less meat and dairy don't have these problems.

Period.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > If your kids get all of their pleasures out of life from eating

> > animals,
> > > > > that's pretty sad.
> > > >
> > > > They probably get pleasure out of many other activities. Why

shouldn't
> > > > they enjoy their food?
> > > >
> > >
> > > They should - but implying that not feeding them meat is depriving

them
> > from
> > > "lifes pleasures" is moronic.
> > >
> > >
> > > > > Shame on you for being so damn ignorant.
> > > >
> > > > Shame on you for yours. Your diet also kills animals, you just

abstain
> > > > from eating them. Do you value thousands frogs and birds and mice

any
> > > > more than you value one pig or chicken?
> > > >
> > >
> > > When did I say that my diet doesn't kill animals?
> > > Are you even reading the posts?
> > >
> > > The post was about a vegan diet being healthy for children

> > =================
> > By themselves, no they are not. Better read up some. They do not

> provide
> > all the nutrients needed.

>
> Yes they do.

===============
Nope, they don't better read 'em again.


> Shit, even good ol' Dr. Spock advised people to feed their kids vegan

diets.
=====================
And his collegues said no. Better check again. By themselves, vegan foods
do not provide all the nutrients you need.

>
> >
> >
> > - that's what
> > > the ignorant statement was addressing.
> > > If you think a vegan diet is unhealthy for children - you are ignorant

> of
> > > the facts.

> > ======================
> > No, you are. By itself, it is unhealthy. Period.

>
> That's your *opinion*. Period.

================
No, it's not. Check any of the abundant veg(n sites on the net. they will
all back up what i say. Vegan foods by themselves do not provide allthe
nutrients you need.

>
> >
> > >
> > > When did anyone say anything about killing or not killing animals?
> > >
> > > I know your a troll, but try to stay with us here...

> > =================
> > Try to know what you're talking about and you won't be called on your
> > stupidity..

>
> Ummmm. Whatever.

=======================
Right, just as I expected. You care nothing about the truth as long as you
think you can get away with spewing your ignorance. Nice try, this time you
got caught.


>
>
>




rick etter 22-02-2004 11:33 PM

vegan children
 

"krakatoa" > wrote in message
news:UX9_b.38520$4o.56971@attbi_s52...
>
> "usual suspect" > wrote in message
> ...
> > krakhead wrote:
> > >>Glad you admit it, but answer the question. Why is it okay to kill
> > >>*thousands* of animals but wrong to eat *one*?
> > >
> > > Stop changing the subject,

> >
> > I didn't change the subject. Answer my question, pro-vegan activist.

>
> Yes, you did change the subject.
> There is not one post where I say anything about killing or not killing
> animals.
> Pro-vegan activist? Huh?
> So thinking that a vegan diet can be healthy for a child makes me an
> activist?
>
> I think you might be generalizing...or projecting.
>
> I don't care about killing animals. I think being vegan is a healthy way

to
> eat.
> I'm not vegan because I love animals,

====================
Then by definition, you aren't vegan, killer.


I'm vegan because I hate vegetables.
>
>




krakatoa 22-02-2004 11:42 PM

vegan children
 

"rick etter" > wrote in message
...
>
> "krakatoa" > wrote in message
> news:UX9_b.38520$4o.56971@attbi_s52...
> >
> > "usual suspect" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > krakhead wrote:
> > > >>Glad you admit it, but answer the question. Why is it okay to kill
> > > >>*thousands* of animals but wrong to eat *one*?
> > > >
> > > > Stop changing the subject,
> > >
> > > I didn't change the subject. Answer my question, pro-vegan activist.

> >
> > Yes, you did change the subject.
> > There is not one post where I say anything about killing or not killing
> > animals.
> > Pro-vegan activist? Huh?
> > So thinking that a vegan diet can be healthy for a child makes me an
> > activist?
> >
> > I think you might be generalizing...or projecting.
> >
> > I don't care about killing animals. I think being vegan is a healthy way

> to
> > eat.
> > I'm not vegan because I love animals,

> ====================
> Then by definition, you aren't vegan, killer.


Are you really this stupid?

So let me get this straight...

You have to be an animal rights activist to be a vegan?
A vegan doesn't eat meat, dairy or eggs. Where does loving animals come into
the picture?

Main Entry: veg·an
Pronunciation: 'vE-g&n also 'vA- also 've-j&n or -"jan
Function: noun
Etymology: by contraction from vegetarian
: a strict vegetarian who consumes no animal food or dairy products; also :
one who abstains from using animal products (as leather)





krakatoa 22-02-2004 11:47 PM

vegan children
 

"rick etter" > wrote in message
...
>
> "krakatoa" > wrote in message
> news:jP9_b.102610$uV3.584676@attbi_s51...
> >
> > "rick etter" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "krakatoa" > wrote in message
> > > news:iv6_b.35229$Xp.163671@attbi_s54...
> > > > > STOP TOP POSTING
> > > >
> > > > Ooooohhhh. All caps. You must mean business.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > If by "lifes pleasures" you mean obesity, heart disease,

diabetes,
> > > > etc. -
> > > > > > you're right.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've seen obese vegetarians. Vegetarians die, too, you know.
> > > >
> > > > I was talking about vegans. I know they die. What is your point?
> > > > You ever wonder why Americans are so fat? Why heart disease
> > > > is the number one killer?
> > > >
> > > > Countries who eat less meat and dairy don't have these problems.

> Period.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > If your kids get all of their pleasures out of life from eating
> > > animals,
> > > > > > that's pretty sad.
> > > > >
> > > > > They probably get pleasure out of many other activities. Why

> shouldn't
> > > > > they enjoy their food?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > They should - but implying that not feeding them meat is depriving

> them
> > > from
> > > > "lifes pleasures" is moronic.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > Shame on you for being so damn ignorant.
> > > > >
> > > > > Shame on you for yours. Your diet also kills animals, you just

> abstain
> > > > > from eating them. Do you value thousands frogs and birds and mice

> any
> > > > > more than you value one pig or chicken?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > When did I say that my diet doesn't kill animals?
> > > > Are you even reading the posts?
> > > >
> > > > The post was about a vegan diet being healthy for children
> > > =================
> > > By themselves, no they are not. Better read up some. They do not

> > provide
> > > all the nutrients needed.

> >
> > Yes they do.

> ===============
> Nope, they don't better read 'em again.
>
>
> > Shit, even good ol' Dr. Spock advised people to feed their kids vegan

> diets.
> =====================
> And his collegues said no. Better check again. By themselves, vegan

foods
> do not provide all the nutrients you need.
>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > - that's what
> > > > the ignorant statement was addressing.
> > > > If you think a vegan diet is unhealthy for children - you are

ignorant
> > of
> > > > the facts.
> > > ======================
> > > No, you are. By itself, it is unhealthy. Period.

> >
> > That's your *opinion*. Period.

> ================
> No, it's not. Check any of the abundant veg(n sites on the net. they

will
> all back up what i say. Vegan foods by themselves do not provide allthe
> nutrients you need.


Back up what you say? You're not saying anything...

What does "by themselves they are not" mean?

You can have a perfectly healthy diet that contains no animal products.
That would be considered a vegan diet. Supplements can be part of a vegan
diet, and it would still be a vegan diet.

So what am I missing here? What do you have to add to a vegan diet to make
it healthy?


> > >
> > > >
> > > > When did anyone say anything about killing or not killing animals?
> > > >
> > > > I know your a troll, but try to stay with us here...
> > > =================
> > > Try to know what you're talking about and you won't be called on your
> > > stupidity..

> >
> > Ummmm. Whatever.

> =======================
> Right, just as I expected. You care nothing about the truth as long as

you
> think you can get away with spewing your ignorance. Nice try, this time

you
> got caught.


Ummmm. Whatever.




rick etter 23-02-2004 12:42 AM

vegan children
 

"krakatoa" > wrote in message
news:kka_b.103093$uV3.584867@attbi_s51...
>
> "rick etter" > wrote in message




snippage...


> > No, it's not. Check any of the abundant veg(n sites on the net. they

> will
> > all back up what i say. Vegan foods by themselves do not provide allthe
> > nutrients you need.

>
> Back up what you say? You're not saying anything...

==================
Again, just check any of the many vegan sites that are truly interested in
your maintaining your health. They'll say the same thing, the food itself
will not provide what you need. Is that really that hard for you?

>
> What does "by themselves they are not" mean?

-----------------
Just what it says. Plant foods do not provide you with everything you need,
period.


>
> You can have a perfectly healthy diet that contains no animal products.
> That would be considered a vegan diet. Supplements can be part of a vegan
> diet, and it would still be a vegan diet.

================================
And yet they are made in ways that cause even more animal death and
suffering. Processed foods and supplements may be 'vegan' in the sense that
they have very little in the way of animal bits in them, but their
processing can and does cause animal death and suffering. Placing your
dependence on the petro-chemical industry while decrying the death of meat
animals is just more vegan hypocrisy. Some selectivly choosen meats eaten
rarely will provide what you need, and can reduce your overall impact on
animal death and suffering to boot! But then, you won't consider that
because you have your simple rule for simple minds, right? 'Eat no meat'.


>
> So what am I missing here? What do you have to add to a vegan diet to make
> it healthy?

========================================
Meat, or supplements. The veggies themselves do not provide all the
nutrients you need. An omnivorous diet does.




snippage...



rick etter 23-02-2004 12:51 AM

vegan children
 

"krakatoa" > wrote in message
news:cfa_b.38772$4o.56912@attbi_s52...
>
> "rick etter" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "krakatoa" > wrote in message
> > news:UX9_b.38520$4o.56971@attbi_s52...
> > >
> > > "usual suspect" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > krakhead wrote:
> > > > >>Glad you admit it, but answer the question. Why is it okay to kill
> > > > >>*thousands* of animals but wrong to eat *one*?
> > > > >
> > > > > Stop changing the subject,
> > > >
> > > > I didn't change the subject. Answer my question, pro-vegan activist.
> > >
> > > Yes, you did change the subject.
> > > There is not one post where I say anything about killing or not

killing
> > > animals.
> > > Pro-vegan activist? Huh?
> > > So thinking that a vegan diet can be healthy for a child makes me an
> > > activist?
> > >
> > > I think you might be generalizing...or projecting.
> > >
> > > I don't care about killing animals. I think being vegan is a healthy

way
> > to
> > > eat.
> > > I'm not vegan because I love animals,

> > ====================
> > Then by definition, you aren't vegan, killer.

>
> Are you really this stupid?

====================
No, but I'm beginning to wonder about you.

>
> So let me get this straight...
>
> You have to be an animal rights activist to be a vegan?

================
That's part of it.

> A vegan doesn't eat meat, dairy or eggs. Where does loving animals come

into
> the picture?

=====================
Veganism is not a diet fool. try learning about it before you make yourself
look even more foolish. See below for the real definition and meaning.
Obviously you are not a vegan.


>
> Main Entry: veg·an
> Pronunciation: 'vE-g&n also 'vA- also 've-j&n or -"jan
> Function: noun
> Etymology: by contraction from vegetarian
> : a strict vegetarian who consumes no animal food or dairy products; also

:
> one who abstains from using animal products (as leather)

=======================
LOL A definition made up by those that can't follow the real definition.
Before you claim to be something, why don't you research what it really
means. You do know that this is just a made up word, don't you? Made up by
Donald Watson.

"...Veganism is a way of living which excludes all forms of exploitation of,
and cruelty to, the animal kingdom, and includes a reverence for life. It
applies to the practice of living on the products of the plant kingdom to
the exclusion of flesh, fish, fowl, eggs, honey, animal milk and its
derivatives, and encourages the use of alternatives for all commodities
derived wholly or in part from animals..."

"...Contrary to vegetarianism, veganism was founded on deeply held ethical
convictions that espouse a dynamic respect for all life. This philosophy
unifies vegans everywhere, regardless of superficial differences..."
"...People who merely consume no animal products, including no eggs,
animals' milk, or honey are not vegans; they are "total vegetarians." Until
one's commitment extends beyond the scope of food, the word "vegan" does not
apply, regardless of how the media or certain individuals wish to employ
it..."
http://www.vegsource.com/joanne/qa/qatypes.htm


>
>
>
>




krakatoa 23-02-2004 01:11 AM

vegan children
 

"rick etter" > wrote in message
...
>
> "krakatoa" > wrote in message
> news:cfa_b.38772$4o.56912@attbi_s52...
> >
> > "rick etter" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "krakatoa" > wrote in message
> > > news:UX9_b.38520$4o.56971@attbi_s52...
> > > >
> > > > "usual suspect" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > krakhead wrote:
> > > > > >>Glad you admit it, but answer the question. Why is it okay to

kill
> > > > > >>*thousands* of animals but wrong to eat *one*?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Stop changing the subject,
> > > > >
> > > > > I didn't change the subject. Answer my question, pro-vegan

activist.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, you did change the subject.
> > > > There is not one post where I say anything about killing or not

> killing
> > > > animals.
> > > > Pro-vegan activist? Huh?
> > > > So thinking that a vegan diet can be healthy for a child makes me an
> > > > activist?
> > > >
> > > > I think you might be generalizing...or projecting.
> > > >
> > > > I don't care about killing animals. I think being vegan is a healthy

> way
> > > to
> > > > eat.
> > > > I'm not vegan because I love animals,
> > > ====================
> > > Then by definition, you aren't vegan, killer.

> >
> > Are you really this stupid?

> ====================
> No, but I'm beginning to wonder about you.
>
> >
> > So let me get this straight...
> >
> > You have to be an animal rights activist to be a vegan?

> ================
> That's part of it.
>
> > A vegan doesn't eat meat, dairy or eggs. Where does loving animals come

> into
> > the picture?

> =====================
> Veganism is not a diet fool. try learning about it before you make

yourself
> look even more foolish. See below for the real definition and meaning.
> Obviously you are not a vegan.


Okay - I'm obviously not vegan. Who cares.
I was talking about the vegan diet anyway, not the ethical aspects of being
a vegan.

>
> >
> > Main Entry: veg·an
> > Pronunciation: 'vE-g&n also 'vA- also 've-j&n or -"jan
> > Function: noun
> > Etymology: by contraction from vegetarian
> > : a strict vegetarian who consumes no animal food or dairy products;

also
> :
> > one who abstains from using animal products (as leather)

> =======================
> LOL A definition made up by those that can't follow the real definition.
> Before you claim to be something, why don't you research what it really
> means. You do know that this is just a made up word, don't you? Made up

by
> Donald Watson.


Every word in every language on the face of the planet is "made up".

> "...Veganism is a way of living which excludes all forms of exploitation

of,
> and cruelty to, the animal kingdom, and includes a reverence for life. It
> applies to the practice of living on the products of the plant kingdom to
> the exclusion of flesh, fish, fowl, eggs, honey, animal milk and its
> derivatives, and encourages the use of alternatives for all commodities
> derived wholly or in part from animals..."
>
> "...Contrary to vegetarianism, veganism was founded on deeply held ethical
> convictions that espouse a dynamic respect for all life. This philosophy
> unifies vegans everywhere, regardless of superficial differences..."
> "...People who merely consume no animal products, including no eggs,
> animals' milk, or honey are not vegans; they are "total vegetarians."

Until
> one's commitment extends beyond the scope of food, the word "vegan" does

not
> apply, regardless of how the media or certain individuals wish to employ
> it..."
> http://www.vegsource.com/joanne/qa/qatypes.htm


A vegan, according to the definition given by the American Vegan Society, is
someone who lives "solely on the products of the plant kingdom, to the
exclusion of flesh, fish, fowl, animal milk, all dairy products, eggs,
honey, and all other foods of animal origin."




krakatoa 23-02-2004 01:28 AM

vegan children
 

"rick etter" > wrote in message
...
>
> "krakatoa" > wrote in message
> news:kka_b.103093$uV3.584867@attbi_s51...
> >
> > "rick etter" > wrote in message

>
>
>
> snippage...
>
>
> > > No, it's not. Check any of the abundant veg(n sites on the net. they

> > will
> > > all back up what i say. Vegan foods by themselves do not provide

allthe
> > > nutrients you need.

> >
> > Back up what you say? You're not saying anything...

> ==================
> Again, just check any of the many vegan sites that are truly interested in
> your maintaining your health. They'll say the same thing, the food itself
> will not provide what you need. Is that really that hard for you?
>
> >
> > What does "by themselves they are not" mean?

> -----------------
> Just what it says. Plant foods do not provide you with everything you

need,
> period.
>


Never said they did. I said a vegan diet can provide you everything you
need.

>
> >
> > You can have a perfectly healthy diet that contains no animal products.
> > That would be considered a vegan diet. Supplements can be part of a

vegan
> > diet, and it would still be a vegan diet.

> ================================
> And yet they are made in ways that cause even more animal death and
> suffering. Processed foods and supplements may be 'vegan' in the sense

that
> they have very little in the way of animal bits in them, but their
> processing can and does cause animal death and suffering. Placing your
> dependence on the petro-chemical industry while decrying the death of meat
> animals is just more vegan hypocrisy. Some selectivly choosen meats

eaten
> rarely will provide what you need, and can reduce your overall impact on
> animal death and suffering to boot! But then, you won't consider that
> because you have your simple rule for simple minds, right? 'Eat no meat'.
>


Oh yeah, vegan multivitamins are the scourge of the animal kingdom...

I don't eat meat because I made a choice not to. You want to eat meat? Go
ahead!
I don't care. I don't have any 'rules'.

To paraphrase Bad Religion:

"I do what I want to do - so hooray for me - and **** you."

I made a personal choice, if I'm a hypocrite - so what. Everyone on this
planet is
a hypocrite in one way or another. Everyone.

Look at the great drug addict Rush Limbaugh for example.

> >
> > So what am I missing here? What do you have to add to a vegan diet to

make
> > it healthy?

> ========================================
> Meat, or supplements. The veggies themselves do not provide all the
> nutrients you need. An omnivorous diet does.


Never said veggies provide all the nutrients you need. I said a vegan diet
does.

Like I said: a vegan diet with supplements is still a vegan diet.




krakatoa 23-02-2004 02:19 AM

vegan children
 

"rick etter" > wrote in message
...
>
> "krakatoa" > wrote in message
> news:kka_b.103093$uV3.584867@attbi_s51...
> >
> > "rick etter" > wrote in message

>
>
>
> snippage...
>
>
> > > No, it's not. Check any of the abundant veg(n sites on the net. they

> > will
> > > all back up what i say. Vegan foods by themselves do not provide

allthe
> > > nutrients you need.

> >
> > Back up what you say? You're not saying anything...

> ==================
> Again, just check any of the many vegan sites that are truly interested in
> your maintaining your health. They'll say the same thing, the food itself
> will not provide what you need. Is that really that hard for you?
>
> >
> > What does "by themselves they are not" mean?

> -----------------
> Just what it says. Plant foods do not provide you with everything you

need,
> period.


Let me also ass that this wasn't always true. The only thing you really
can't get
from plant sources is vitamin B-12.

Here is a snippet from an article on the Physicians For Responsible Medicine
site:

"Vitamin B12 is a genuine issue for vegans, although very easy to deal with.
Traditionally, getting this vitamin has not been difficult. In cultures with
plant-based diets, the microorganisms that produce B12 grow in the soil and
cling to root vegetables, and traditional Asian miso and tempeh contain
large amounts of the vitamin. But with industrialized production and
improved hygiene, this source of B12 has been eliminated. Meat-eaters get
B12 through microorganisms living in the animals they eat."

http://www.pcrm.org/health/veginfo/v...ian_foods.html




krakatoa 23-02-2004 02:35 AM

vegan children
 

"krakatoa" > wrote in message
news:oyc_b.383264$na.578108@attbi_s04...
>
> Let me also ass


Read: add. :)



rick etter 23-02-2004 03:07 AM

vegan children
 

"krakatoa" > wrote in message
news:8Pb_b.40202$4o.57691@attbi_s52...
>
> "rick etter" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "krakatoa" > wrote in message
> > news:kka_b.103093$uV3.584867@attbi_s51...
> > >
> > > "rick etter" > wrote in message

> >
> >
> >
> > snippage...
> >
> >
> > > > No, it's not. Check any of the abundant veg(n sites on the net.

they
> > > will
> > > > all back up what i say. Vegan foods by themselves do not provide

> allthe
> > > > nutrients you need.
> > >
> > > Back up what you say? You're not saying anything...

> > ==================
> > Again, just check any of the many vegan sites that are truly interested

in
> > your maintaining your health. They'll say the same thing, the food

itself
> > will not provide what you need. Is that really that hard for you?
> >
> > >
> > > What does "by themselves they are not" mean?

> > -----------------
> > Just what it says. Plant foods do not provide you with everything you

> need,
> > period.
> >

>
> Never said they did. I said a vegan diet can provide you everything you
> need.

=======================
Not without non-food supplements.

>
> >
> > >
> > > You can have a perfectly healthy diet that contains no animal

products.
> > > That would be considered a vegan diet. Supplements can be part of a

> vegan
> > > diet, and it would still be a vegan diet.

> > ================================
> > And yet they are made in ways that cause even more animal death and
> > suffering. Processed foods and supplements may be 'vegan' in the sense

> that
> > they have very little in the way of animal bits in them, but their
> > processing can and does cause animal death and suffering. Placing your
> > dependence on the petro-chemical industry while decrying the death of

meat
> > animals is just more vegan hypocrisy. Some selectivly choosen meats

> eaten
> > rarely will provide what you need, and can reduce your overall impact on
> > animal death and suffering to boot! But then, you won't consider that
> > because you have your simple rule for simple minds, right? 'Eat no

meat'.
> >

>
> Oh yeah, vegan multivitamins are the scourge of the animal kingdom...

====================
More so than some meats.

>
> I don't eat meat because I made a choice not to. You want to eat meat? Go
> ahead!
> I don't care. I don't have any 'rules'.
>
> To paraphrase Bad Religion:
>
> "I do what I want to do - so hooray for me - and **** you."

====================
Ahhh yes, the last resort. can'r refute what I say, so resort to foul
language. How predictable...

>
> I made a personal choice, if I'm a hypocrite - so what. Everyone on this
> planet is
> a hypocrite in one way or another. Everyone.
>
> Look at the great drug addict Rush Limbaugh for example.
>
> > >
> > > So what am I missing here? What do you have to add to a vegan diet to

> make
> > > it healthy?

> > ========================================
> > Meat, or supplements. The veggies themselves do not provide all the
> > nutrients you need. An omnivorous diet does.

>
> Never said veggies provide all the nutrients you need. I said a vegan diet
> does.
>
> Like I said: a vegan diet with supplements is still a vegan diet.

======================
No, not when you look up the meaning of the term, killer.

>
>
>




rick etter 23-02-2004 03:08 AM

vegan children
 

"krakatoa" > wrote in message
news:oyc_b.383264$na.578108@attbi_s04...
>
> "rick etter" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "krakatoa" > wrote in message
> > news:kka_b.103093$uV3.584867@attbi_s51...
> > >
> > > "rick etter" > wrote in message

> >
> >
> >
> > snippage...
> >
> >
> > > > No, it's not. Check any of the abundant veg(n sites on the net.

they
> > > will
> > > > all back up what i say. Vegan foods by themselves do not provide

> allthe
> > > > nutrients you need.
> > >
> > > Back up what you say? You're not saying anything...

> > ==================
> > Again, just check any of the many vegan sites that are truly interested

in
> > your maintaining your health. They'll say the same thing, the food

itself
> > will not provide what you need. Is that really that hard for you?
> >
> > >
> > > What does "by themselves they are not" mean?

> > -----------------
> > Just what it says. Plant foods do not provide you with everything you

> need,
> > period.

>
> Let me also ass that this wasn't always true. The only thing you really
> can't get
> from plant sources is vitamin B-12.
>
> Here is a snippet from an article on the Physicians For Responsible

Medicine
> site:
>
> "Vitamin B12 is a genuine issue for vegans, although very easy to deal

with.
> Traditionally, getting this vitamin has not been difficult. In cultures

with
> plant-based diets, the microorganisms that produce B12 grow in the soil

and
> cling to root vegetables, and traditional Asian miso and tempeh contain
> large amounts of the vitamin. But with industrialized production and
> improved hygiene, this source of B12 has been eliminated. Meat-eaters get
> B12 through microorganisms living in the animals they eat."
>
> http://www.pcrm.org/health/veginfo/v...ian_foods.html

====================
LOL you just proved what I said.


>
>
>




rick etter 23-02-2004 03:12 AM

vegan children
 

"krakatoa" > wrote in message
news:xyb_b.39044$Xp.175690@attbi_s54...
>


snippage...

> > > A vegan doesn't eat meat, dairy or eggs. Where does loving animals

come
> > into
> > > the picture?

> > =====================
> > Veganism is not a diet fool. try learning about it before you make

> yourself
> > look even more foolish. See below for the real definition and meaning.
> > Obviously you are not a vegan.

>
> Okay - I'm obviously not vegan. Who cares.
> I was talking about the vegan diet anyway, not the ethical aspects of

being
> a vegan.
> =======================

Then why were you trying to pretend to be one?


> >
> > >
> > > Main Entry: veg·an
> > > Pronunciation: 'vE-g&n also 'vA- also 've-j&n or -"jan
> > > Function: noun
> > > Etymology: by contraction from vegetarian
> > > : a strict vegetarian who consumes no animal food or dairy products;

> also
> > :
> > > one who abstains from using animal products (as leather)

> > =======================
> > LOL A definition made up by those that can't follow the real

definition.
> > Before you claim to be something, why don't you research what it really
> > means. You do know that this is just a made up word, don't you? Made

up
> by
> > Donald Watson.

>
> Every word in every language on the face of the planet is "made up".

====================
Not in this sense. Many have roots from various language. Many are just
'made' up as we go.

>
> > "...Veganism is a way of living which excludes all forms of exploitation

> of,
> > and cruelty to, the animal kingdom, and includes a reverence for life.

It
> > applies to the practice of living on the products of the plant kingdom

to
> > the exclusion of flesh, fish, fowl, eggs, honey, animal milk and its
> > derivatives, and encourages the use of alternatives for all commodities
> > derived wholly or in part from animals..."
> >
> > "...Contrary to vegetarianism, veganism was founded on deeply held

ethical
> > convictions that espouse a dynamic respect for all life. This philosophy
> > unifies vegans everywhere, regardless of superficial differences..."
> > "...People who merely consume no animal products, including no eggs,
> > animals' milk, or honey are not vegans; they are "total vegetarians."

> Until
> > one's commitment extends beyond the scope of food, the word "vegan" does

> not
> > apply, regardless of how the media or certain individuals wish to employ
> > it..."
> > http://www.vegsource.com/joanne/qa/qatypes.htm

>
> A vegan, according to the definition given by the American Vegan Society,

is
> someone who lives "solely on the products of the plant kingdom, to the
> exclusion of flesh, fish, fowl, animal milk, all dairy products, eggs,
> honey, and all other foods of animal origin."

============================
Why leave out the rest of their definition? Dishonesty get the better of
you, as usual for vegans and their wannabes?
"...Veganism is an advanced way of living in accordance with Reverence for
Life, recognizing the rights of all living creatures, and extending to them
the compassion, kindness, and justice exemplified in the Golden Rule..."

Again, you don't even come close, killer.


>
>
>




krakatoa 23-02-2004 03:26 AM

vegan children
 

"rick etter" > wrote in message
...
>
> "krakatoa" > wrote in message
> news:oyc_b.383264$na.578108@attbi_s04...
> >
> > "rick etter" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "krakatoa" > wrote in message
> > > news:kka_b.103093$uV3.584867@attbi_s51...
> > > >
> > > > "rick etter" > wrote in message
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > snippage...
> > >
> > >
> > > > > No, it's not. Check any of the abundant veg(n sites on the net.

> they
> > > > will
> > > > > all back up what i say. Vegan foods by themselves do not provide

> > allthe
> > > > > nutrients you need.
> > > >
> > > > Back up what you say? You're not saying anything...
> > > ==================
> > > Again, just check any of the many vegan sites that are truly

interested
> in
> > > your maintaining your health. They'll say the same thing, the food

> itself
> > > will not provide what you need. Is that really that hard for you?
> > >
> > > >
> > > > What does "by themselves they are not" mean?
> > > -----------------
> > > Just what it says. Plant foods do not provide you with everything you

> > need,
> > > period.

> >
> > Let me also ass that this wasn't always true. The only thing you really
> > can't get
> > from plant sources is vitamin B-12.
> >
> > Here is a snippet from an article on the Physicians For Responsible

> Medicine
> > site:
> >
> > "Vitamin B12 is a genuine issue for vegans, although very easy to deal

> with.
> > Traditionally, getting this vitamin has not been difficult. In cultures

> with
> > plant-based diets, the microorganisms that produce B12 grow in the soil

> and
> > cling to root vegetables, and traditional Asian miso and tempeh contain
> > large amounts of the vitamin. But with industrialized production and
> > improved hygiene, this source of B12 has been eliminated. Meat-eaters

get
> > B12 through microorganisms living in the animals they eat."
> >
> > http://www.pcrm.org/health/veginfo/v...ian_foods.html

> ====================
> LOL you just proved what I said.


So you said that at one time a vegan diet with no supplements provided you
all
of the nutrients you need, but now we should supplement B-12?

I'm glad I could prove you right!

So finally, we all agree - a vegan diet can be healthy for children.




krakatoa 23-02-2004 03:32 AM

vegan children
 

"rick etter" > wrote in message
...
>
> "krakatoa" > wrote in message
> news:8Pb_b.40202$4o.57691@attbi_s52...
> >
> > "rick etter" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "krakatoa" > wrote in message
> > > news:kka_b.103093$uV3.584867@attbi_s51...
> > > >
> > > > "rick etter" > wrote in message
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > snippage...
> > >
> > >
> > > > > No, it's not. Check any of the abundant veg(n sites on the net.

> they
> > > > will
> > > > > all back up what i say. Vegan foods by themselves do not provide

> > allthe
> > > > > nutrients you need.
> > > >
> > > > Back up what you say? You're not saying anything...
> > > ==================
> > > Again, just check any of the many vegan sites that are truly

interested
> in
> > > your maintaining your health. They'll say the same thing, the food

> itself
> > > will not provide what you need. Is that really that hard for you?
> > >
> > > >
> > > > What does "by themselves they are not" mean?
> > > -----------------
> > > Just what it says. Plant foods do not provide you with everything you

> > need,
> > > period.
> > >

> >
> > Never said they did. I said a vegan diet can provide you everything you
> > need.

> =======================
> Not without non-food supplements.


So?

> > > >
> > > > You can have a perfectly healthy diet that contains no animal

> products.
> > > > That would be considered a vegan diet. Supplements can be part of a

> > vegan
> > > > diet, and it would still be a vegan diet.
> > > ================================
> > > And yet they are made in ways that cause even more animal death and
> > > suffering. Processed foods and supplements may be 'vegan' in the

sense
> > that
> > > they have very little in the way of animal bits in them, but their
> > > processing can and does cause animal death and suffering. Placing

your
> > > dependence on the petro-chemical industry while decrying the death of

> meat
> > > animals is just more vegan hypocrisy. Some selectivly choosen meats

> > eaten
> > > rarely will provide what you need, and can reduce your overall impact

on
> > > animal death and suffering to boot! But then, you won't consider that
> > > because you have your simple rule for simple minds, right? 'Eat no

> meat'.
> > >

> >
> > Oh yeah, vegan multivitamins are the scourge of the animal kingdom...

> ====================
> More so than some meats.


Examples? Evidence? References?

> >
> > I don't eat meat because I made a choice not to. You want to eat meat?

Go
> > ahead!
> > I don't care. I don't have any 'rules'.
> >
> > To paraphrase Bad Religion:
> >
> > "I do what I want to do - so hooray for me - and **** you."

> ====================
> Ahhh yes, the last resort. can'r refute what I say, so resort to foul
> language. How predictable...


You didn't say anything for me to refute - you personally attacked me.
Not a last resort...just a reaction to being called 'simple minded'.


> >
> > I made a personal choice, if I'm a hypocrite - so what. Everyone on this
> > planet is
> > a hypocrite in one way or another. Everyone.
> >
> > Look at the great drug addict Rush Limbaugh for example.
> >
> > > >
> > > > So what am I missing here? What do you have to add to a vegan diet

to
> > make
> > > > it healthy?
> > > ========================================
> > > Meat, or supplements. The veggies themselves do not provide all the
> > > nutrients you need. An omnivorous diet does.

> >
> > Never said veggies provide all the nutrients you need. I said a vegan

diet
> > does.
> >
> > Like I said: a vegan diet with supplements is still a vegan diet.

> ======================
> No, not when you look up the meaning of the term, killer.


*Defenition* of the term:

Consume no animal products. This includes supplements that contain no animal
products.

People can attach whatever meaning to it they want - the definition is a
separate thing.






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