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  #76 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 04-02-2004, 05:40 PM
Jonathan Ball
 
Posts: n/a
Default Tell me about rice

Benfez wrote:
"Zakhar" wrote in message
...



Using Diderot's numbers, if you were producing rice you'd be killing


45

000 000 animals a year, and you'd have 262 500 000 amphibians living in


your

fields, etc.


Quite, but notice that I feel unable to count the small furrys, there will
be a VERY great number of mice, voles and similar who will be killed, not to
mention amphibians.


In this "debate" (huh) over animal collateral deaths in
agriculture, the actual count is irrelevant. It is the
*phenomenon* of CDs, in the range in which we know they
occur, that completely queers the claims of "animal
rights" activists. What the phenomenon shows is that
"aras" are, in fact, "animal rights" PASSIVISTS: their
diets causes large scale, widespread animal death, and
they are utterly PASSIVE regarding it.


  #77 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 08-02-2004, 05:17 PM
 
Posts: n/a
Default Tell me about rice

On Tue, 3 Feb 2004 14:58:03 -0000, "ipse dixit" wrote:


wrote in message news
On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 19:15:55 -0000, "ipse dixit" wrote:
wrote in message ...
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 10:04:44 -0000, "ipse dixit" wrote:
wrote in message ...
On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:54:01 -0000, "ipse dixit" wrote:

How could he "never" have noticed the 50000+ animals
per acre being chopped to bits one minute,

Similar to the way that you don't.

I don't farm,

or care about deaths of wildlife in rice production,

Ipse dixit and false.


Aren't you going to retract your dishonest
claim that I don't care about the deaths of
wildlife,

No, because you don't.

or are you going to continue lying
and making baseless claims instead?


Baseless? There are plenty of CDs involved with
rice production. If you cared about them, then THEY
are what you would be focussed on, NOT on the
ones that don't occur. Your only "care" is that you
don't want people to believe they exist.

so it's impossible for me to
count them. Diderot claims to be a farmer
and a reliable eye witness, yet he never
noticed them to start with. He either has
very poor eyesight or he's lying. Either way
his anecdotal evidence must be ignored

by people who don't care about deaths of wildlife in
rice production.

By everyone, irrespective of their knowledge
on collateral deaths. No one can count 50000
shredded frogs flying past at the speed of a
nor'easter, so his anecdotal evidence must be
discarded by the fact of our limited capabilities.

Well, Harrison? Isn't it a fact that our limited
capabilities prove that "Diderot" must certainly
have lied about what he claims to have counted?


Let's see the quote in which he said that he counted them.

and then notice them in the next?

He lost you by a ***LONG!!!*** way there dix. He
began to care at least enough to look, and lost you
even farther by beginning to care.

You haven't answered the question. How
could he never have noticed 50000+ frogs
flying past him per acre one minute,

He didn't care, like you.

For the umpteenth time: answer the question.
"How could he never have noticed 50000+
frogs flying past him per acre one minute, and
then manage to count them the next?

Answer the question or admit that he must
have lied about his numbers. He claims that
"the number of frogs swimming across the
cutter-bar is so massive, we have to change
to a smaller header a/o severely reduce travel
speed.", yet he says he never noticed them
until he looked. If that were true, then it stands
to reason he never had to change to a smaller
header prior to noticing them, so he's clearly
lying because had he not changed to a smaller
header he would've noticed that waterfall long
ago.


Being more interested in the truth than you
are, I would have to hear his side of it before
forming an opinion about whether he lied,
exaggerated, or simply shared what he saw in
the field.

and then
manage to count them the next?

He began to care, unlike you.

No one can count that many shredded frogs
flying by them, no matter how they cared, so
admit Diderot lied, Harrison!

Why don't you answer?

He's lying.

No. YOU are lying. He may have exagerated

He did much more than exagerate and his
contradictory quotes prove it. Those quotes
and the impossible task in counting that many
frogs per acre prove that he lied about this
issue.

How many frogs do die per acre?

Show one ounce of integrity for once in your
life


It seems that you're the one failing in that area.


I'm giving you the facts while you try to defend
his obvious lies, so why do you say that it is I
who is short on integrity here?

You want people to believe that the number of
animals killed in rice production should not be
given any consideration, regardless of how many
there are.

Since when have I ever tried to claim these deaths
should not be given any consideration, liar? Show
me your proof of this claim in your reply or retract
it.


How many should be considered? How many
actually occur?

and admit Diderot lied about his numbers.


I don't know whether he lied about them or not.


You do know that he lied based on our limited
capabilities to physically count the numbers he
provided here. He claims the numbers were so
high that he had to slow down or change to a
shorter header, yet prior to looking he claims
he never noticed them.



  #78 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 13-02-2004, 04:53 AM
jRb
 
Posts: n/a
Default Tell me about rice

Please inform:

50000 Animals?

Explain please.......

I seriously doubt one would have witnessed much less counted that many. In
either event it's not a perfect world and you have to take the lesser of two
evils most often than not.

Perhaps we should investigate rice farming alternatives that may curb or
elliminate such deaths?

Has that been considered?


wrote in message
...
On Tue, 3 Feb 2004 14:58:03 -0000, "ipse dixit" wrote:


wrote in message

news
On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 19:15:55 -0000, "ipse dixit"

wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 10:04:44 -0000, "ipse dixit"

wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:54:01 -0000, "ipse dixit"

wrote:

How could he "never" have noticed the 50000+ animals
per acre being chopped to bits one minute,

Similar to the way that you don't.

I don't farm,

or care about deaths of wildlife in rice production,

Ipse dixit and false.


Aren't you going to retract your dishonest
claim that I don't care about the deaths of
wildlife,


No, because you don't.

or are you going to continue lying
and making baseless claims instead?


Baseless? There are plenty of CDs involved with
rice production. If you cared about them, then THEY
are what you would be focussed on, NOT on the
ones that don't occur. Your only "care" is that you
don't want people to believe they exist.

so it's impossible for me to
count them. Diderot claims to be a farmer
and a reliable eye witness, yet he never
noticed them to start with. He either has
very poor eyesight or he's lying. Either way
his anecdotal evidence must be ignored

by people who don't care about deaths of wildlife in
rice production.

By everyone, irrespective of their knowledge
on collateral deaths. No one can count 50000
shredded frogs flying past at the speed of a
nor'easter, so his anecdotal evidence must be
discarded by the fact of our limited capabilities.

Well, Harrison? Isn't it a fact that our limited
capabilities prove that "Diderot" must certainly
have lied about what he claims to have counted?


Let's see the quote in which he said that he counted them.

and then notice them in the next?

He lost you by a ***LONG!!!*** way there dix. He
began to care at least enough to look, and lost you
even farther by beginning to care.

You haven't answered the question. How
could he never have noticed 50000+ frogs
flying past him per acre one minute,

He didn't care, like you.

For the umpteenth time: answer the question.
"How could he never have noticed 50000+
frogs flying past him per acre one minute, and
then manage to count them the next?

Answer the question or admit that he must
have lied about his numbers. He claims that
"the number of frogs swimming across the
cutter-bar is so massive, we have to change
to a smaller header a/o severely reduce travel
speed.", yet he says he never noticed them
until he looked. If that were true, then it stands
to reason he never had to change to a smaller
header prior to noticing them, so he's clearly
lying because had he not changed to a smaller
header he would've noticed that waterfall long
ago.


Being more interested in the truth than you
are, I would have to hear his side of it before
forming an opinion about whether he lied,
exaggerated, or simply shared what he saw in
the field.

and then
manage to count them the next?

He began to care, unlike you.

No one can count that many shredded frogs
flying by them, no matter how they cared, so
admit Diderot lied, Harrison!

Why don't you answer?

He's lying.

No. YOU are lying. He may have exagerated

He did much more than exagerate and his
contradictory quotes prove it. Those quotes
and the impossible task in counting that many
frogs per acre prove that he lied about this
issue.

How many frogs do die per acre?

Show one ounce of integrity for once in your
life

It seems that you're the one failing in that area.


I'm giving you the facts while you try to defend
his obvious lies, so why do you say that it is I
who is short on integrity here?

You want people to believe that the number of
animals killed in rice production should not be
given any consideration, regardless of how many
there are.

Since when have I ever tried to claim these deaths
should not be given any consideration, liar? Show
me your proof of this claim in your reply or retract
it.


How many should be considered? How many
actually occur?

and admit Diderot lied about his numbers.

I don't know whether he lied about them or not.


You do know that he lied based on our limited
capabilities to physically count the numbers he
provided here. He claims the numbers were so
high that he had to slow down or change to a
shorter header, yet prior to looking he claims
he never noticed them.






  #79 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 13-02-2004, 07:13 AM
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default Tell me about rice


"jRb" wrote in message
. com...
Please inform:

50000 Animals?

Explain please.......

I seriously doubt one would have witnessed much less counted that many.

In
either event it's not a perfect world and you have to take the lesser of

two
evils most often than not.

=====================
Which two are those, exactly? Have you counted the animals that die for
your diet and lifestyle now?


Perhaps we should investigate rice farming alternatives that may curb or
elliminate such deaths?

======================
It's not just rice. All crop production causes animal death and suffering.
There can be 1000s of animals per acre living in fields that are plowed,
sprayed, and harvested. Why is it ok to slice, dice, shred, dis-member and
poison these animals for no more reason than our cheap, conveninet veggies,
and then leave them to rot?


Has that been considered?

================
Have you considered the impact that the various foods you eat now cause to
animals and the environment?




snippage...


Here are some sites, with info on specific areas and
pesticides. Animals die.
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm
http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm
http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/


http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm
http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html
http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html
http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.htm




http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html
http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm


Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either,
here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton.
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/


To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field,
here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there
can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field.
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs
/natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8
http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf
http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html


To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet here's are a couple
dealing with power and communications.
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html


  #80 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-02-2004, 05:03 PM
 
Posts: n/a
Default Tell me about rice

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 03:53:02 GMT, "jRb" wrote:

Please inform:

50000 Animals?

Explain please.......

I seriously doubt one would have witnessed much less counted that many. In
either event it's not a perfect world and you have to take the lesser of two
evils most often than not.


From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat. That would
be 750 meals if each included 3/4 pound of meat. From a grass
raised dairy cow people get thousands of dairy servings. Due to
the influence of farm machinery, and *icides, and in the case
of rice the flooding and draining of fields, one meal of soy or
rice based product is likely to involve more animal deaths than
hundreds of meals derived from grass raised cattle. Grass raised
cattle products contribute to less wildlife deaths, better wildlife
habitat, and better lives for cattle than soy or rice products.

Perhaps we should investigate rice farming alternatives that may curb or
elliminate such deaths?


The only way to elliminate *any* death is by preventing life.

Has that been considered?


Sure. There are people here who advocate farming under
glass to prevent life that way, and advocate not raising animals
for food to prevent life that way...


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