This is a long story but I'll make it as quick as possible. I am a foster
parent for two kids, one around 4 years old, the other 13. My husband has a
full-time job but also helps out at times. Both of these kids are disabled and
unable to eat well at all. The agency we work through has suggested that we go
to this feeding clinic that teaches them about eating food, how to swallow,
etc. I didn't see a problem with this and we just went with the 4 year old a
couple weeks ago. Both kids do eat some but not that well but we do feed them
meat as well as other foods and have never pushed being vegetarian on them.
When we signed up to do this work we did tell the agency that we're both vegan
(and explained what it was) but that we would make meat for the kids.
My husband actually cooks more than I do. He is vegan for religious reasons as
well as health reasons. I was actually vegetarian when I met him but he helped
me transition to being vegan. The thing is when we got to the feeding clinic
we were told that one of us gets to watch the child while the other actually
sits with it as it eats. I had no idea what this woudl mean but then realize
how they work is basically they mock eating to the child and they prefer to
have the parents do it since the parents are around it. Basically they chose
different foods and you then take these foods in your mouth and eat them as
well as feeding them to the kid. You are supposed to be very graphic, what I
mean is you are supposed to chew exagerated and let the children smell the food
(by blowing out). I know it sounds funny but they say this teaches kids to
smell food and then want to eat more. The big part is chewing/breathing it
out, etc. but yet you do eat it as well. The thing is it was mostly veggies
like carrots, things like twizzlers, but then went onto things like beef jerky
and slim jims. I was wondering what he would say when the lady that runs it
took out a beef jerky for him to eat but he just took it and ate. The thing is
after I talke to him about it and said I am sure they woudn't mind if he
explained he doens't eat meat. Well his response was that he didn't even think
of it, he just took it and after realized what it was but then didnt' want to
say anything. I just explained how the next time we go the lady will do this
again not knowing and we go once a month. The thing is that evening he even
admitted he was sick in his stomach and felt so bad about what he did. It was
like he felt a lot of guilt and regretted what he did. He really tortured
himself in that way for the next couple days. We had already decided that the
next time I am going to do the feeding and we'll take turns.
The thing is I made it clear to my husband I will not eat meat if they offer
it. Part of it may be that I'm the type that very much stands up for my
beliefs and I'm outspoken. He's the type that will go along with people
easier. When I first met him like I said he was very strictly vegan but yet if
we went out to dinner with another couple and they ordered meat and would offer
a piece of steak to him he'd take it. After he woudl tell me how he didn't
want to upset them by telling them he doens't eat meat. In ways I always had
the idea he was ashamed of being vegan and would never talk about it to people.
He has changed though and now he's quick to tell people how he's vegan and he
may not tell someone that he's vegan if they offer meat but will say no thanks.
FOr awhile here I thought this was the case or he was scared our boss (who
goes to these clinics) woudl get upset. The thing is each of these visits is
$1000 or so that insurance covers. I do feel in general this lady is pushy. I
have seen the other kids she works with. The 4 year old has a throat condition
that makes it hard to swallow. She almost joked while eating and the lady's
response (when we were scared to continue) was "It's okay. we have doctors in
this building we can call if something happens." Then she told us how we aren't
aggressive enough and you have to push this. She has suggested this serious
surgery that would be costly and high risk that coudl increase the chance this
child can eat. To me it's too risky. I just don't like the aggressive nature
of this lady and feel she's just after business and money and not what is right
for people. She even told us this isn't really surgery but yet the pediatrician
said it is and high risk and never has been done here before and that the
chance of it even helping (assuming it's a success and the child is okay, is
under 10%). Of course those are some of the reasons I don't like going.
The thing is I don't want to cause problems with my husband by announcing to
her the next visit that we're vegan. I knew she had a email address so wrote
her hoping I coudl straigten it up. I didn't even think of putting my name at
the end so I know she didn't realize who I am. I know this 4 year old may not
be going back by chance but yet the 13 year old starts in a month or two. With
him being older he'll likely be eating things like steak, ice cream, etc. I
just don't want to have to deal with eating that. What upset me is the ladies
response which I will show below:

Please know that we try to accommodate all of our families' special needs as
best we can, and there is space on the paperwork for parents to express
concerns that they have regarding dietary issues. The family you are talking
about needs to speak directly to their therapist and express their concerns
about their role in the therapy program. We have a number of families where
the parents are vegetarian themselves, but are okay with their children eating
meat and letting that child make that decision for themselves when they get
older. We do ask these parents to attempt to be good role models for their
children around eating, and this does involve putting foods into their mouths
and possibly demonstrating chewing motions, and this includes meat. However,
the parent does not need to swallow this food if it is against their beliefs.
As such, they would not be actually eating the food. However, once a parent is
in the treatment room, there is an assumption by the therapist that the parent
will eat every food presented unless these issues are clarified before they
enter the room. A parent could always, though, remind the therapist that they
are vegetarian if somehow the therapist had forgotten. Typically we mark the
exterior of the chart as "special dietary needs" to prevent a therapist from
forgetting these types of issues. I am concerned that you do not feel like you
can speak to their therapist about this issue and 2) somehow missed where to
express these concerns on the paperwork or during the Intake process. Remember
communication is very important.
It is important for you to know that we do not and will not engage in a
philosophical process with patients or families regarding their overall diet
choices. Those choices are theirs to make, as long as there is no harm to the
child. Many food choices that adults make for philosophical beliefs can be
accommodated by appropriate diets for children. An adolescent's diet is even
easier to accommodate.

Okay, well I do agree with her communication is important. My husband did
shock me when he didn't say anything. Yet I guess what bothers me is her
attitude about how we should eat meat in front of the kids (I guess at home as
well as there). Well as she said just put it into your mouth and chew it if
you don't mind. I explained to her how important my beliefs are and how
vegetarians can even get sick if they eat meat. I don't think non vegetarians
understand this and her idea is just put the meat in and chew and I guess spit
it out after. I dont' know about all of you. I definitely can't chew meat but
I don't see even putting it into my mouth. The thing is ther are many choices
to offer a kid and I don't see why you can't try so many non meat choices as
long as you do offer meat at home. Any idea what I can do? I don't want this
to turn into a big fight at the next session.

I do not think you will like what I am going to say but I think it is
important. I cannot believe that a foster care agency would house two
children who have difficulties eating with a family that has food
restrictions. Those children need *every* opportunity to improve their
health, and lifestyle choices -- religious or not -- have no business
getting in the way of a child's health. My partner and I and one of
our children are all vegetarian but our other child is not and if I
needed to stand on my head and suck raw beef through a straw while
humming Danny Boy to help him I would. I don't know what advice to
give you because if those children are getting the love and attention
from you and your partner that they need, then moving them would be
awful, but if they're not getting the healthcare that they need then
it's not the right solution either.

As for speaking out about being vegan (you talk about both
vegan/vegetarian in your post so I'm not sure which you are), there is
a middle ground between loudly proclaiming your eating habits to
everyone within earshot and eating proferred meat so as not to offend:
simply say "no thank you." You and your partner have different views
on this, which is separate from your foster children's issues but
should be addressed so you can help them together.

I wish you well. You have taken on a huge task and the children are
fortunate to have such generous people in their lives.

lm (are twizzlers vegan?)

LizH228 wrote:
> This is a long story but I'll make it as quick as possible.

You failed. Did they ever explain the paragraph at your school? Geez.

> I am a foster
> parent for two kids, one around 4 years old, the other 13. My husband has a
> full-time job but also helps out at times. Both of these kids are disabled and
> unable to eat well at all. The agency we work through has suggested that we go
> to this feeding clinic that teaches them about eating food, how to swallow,
> etc. I didn't see a problem with this and we just went with the 4 year old a
> couple weeks ago. Both kids do eat some but not that well but we do feed them
> meat as well as other foods and have never pushed being vegetarian on them.
> When we signed up to do this work we did tell the agency that we're both vegan
> (and explained what it was) but that we would make meat for the kids.

I'm surprised they let such fragile adults parent such fragile children.
Kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it?

> My husband actually cooks more than I do. He is vegan for religious reasons as
> well as health reasons. I was actually vegetarian when I met him but he helped
> me transition to being vegan. The thing is when we got to the feeding clinic
> we were told that one of us gets to watch the child while the other actually
> sits with it as it eats. I had no idea what this woudl mean but then realize
> how they work is basically they mock eating to the child and they prefer to
> have the parents do it since the parents are around it. Basically they chose
> different foods and you then take these foods in your mouth and eat them as
> well as feeding them to the kid. You are supposed to be very graphic, what I
> mean is you are supposed to chew exagerated and let the children smell the food
> (by blowing out). I know it sounds funny but they say this teaches kids to
> smell food and then want to eat more. The big part is chewing/breathing it
> out, etc. but yet you do eat it as well. The thing is it was mostly veggies
> like carrots, things like twizzlers, but then went onto things like beef jerky
> and slim jims. I was wondering what he would say when the lady that runs it
> took out a beef jerky for him to eat but he just took it and ate. The thing is
> after I talke to him about it and said I am sure they woudn't mind if he
> explained he doens't eat meat. Well his response was that he didn't even think
> of it, he just took it and after realized what it was but then didnt' want to
> say anything.

The jerky is not for him, you selfish witch, it's for the kids.

> I just explained how the next time we go the lady will do this
> again not knowing and we go once a month. The thing is

Stop saying "the thing is."

> that evening he even
> admitted he was sick in his stomach and felt so bad about what he did.

Only after you harped on him, nag.

> It was
> like he felt a lot of guilt and regretted what he did.

Hint: it's all the nagging.

> He really tortured
> himself in that way for the next couple days.

No, you tortured him. It clearly didn't burden his conscience to take
the jerky, chew it, spit it out, eat it, etc.

> We had already decided that the
> next time I am going to do the feeding and we'll take turns.

I feel sorry for the caseworker.

> The thing is

UGH! Stop that, you stupid woman.

> I made it clear to my husband I will not eat meat if they offer
> it.

Of course you won't. You're too selfish to do what's in the children's
best interest.

> Part of it may be that I'm the type that very much stands up for my
> beliefs and I'm outspoken.

No, it's all 'cause you're so selfish.

> He's the type that will go along with people
> easier.

Be honest, you prefer him docile like that. It means you get to have
your way.

> When I first met him like I said he was very strictly vegan but yet if
> we went out to dinner with another couple and they ordered meat and would offer
> a piece of steak to him he'd take it.

So?

> After he woudl tell me how he didn't
> want to upset them by telling them he doens't eat meat.

Why should you care? It's his mouth and his body.

> In ways I always had
> the idea he was ashamed of being vegan and would never talk about it to people.

He should be ashamed of his eating disorder, but he should be even more
ashamed that he lets you boss him around.

> He has changed though and now he's quick to tell people how he's vegan and he
> may not tell someone that he's vegan if they offer meat but will say no thanks.

Sounds like he's capitulated to all your nagging. Happy?

> FOr awhile here I thought this was the case or he was scared our boss (who
> goes to these clinics) woudl get upset. The thing is each of these visits is
> $1000 or so that insurance covers. I do feel in general this lady is pushy.

Can't have that now, can we.

> I
> have seen the other kids she works with. The 4 year old has a throat condition
> that makes it hard to swallow. She almost joked while eating and the lady's
> response (when we were scared to continue) was "It's okay. we have doctors in
> this building we can call if something happens." Then she told us how we aren't
> aggressive enough and you have to push this. She has suggested this serious
> surgery that would be costly and high risk that coudl increase the chance this
> child can eat. To me it's too risky. I just don't like the aggressive nature
> of this lady and feel she's just after business and money and not what is right
> for people. She even told us this isn't really surgery but yet the pediatrician
> said it is and high risk and never has been done here before and that the
> chance of it even helping (assuming it's a success and the child is okay, is
> under 10%). Of course those are some of the reasons I don't like going.
> The thing is

STOP SAYING "THE THING IS."

> I don't want to cause problems

Yes, you do.

> with my husband by announcing to
> her the next visit that we're vegan. I knew she had a email address so wrote
> her hoping I coudl straigten it up. I didn't even think of putting my name at
> the end so I know she didn't realize who I am. I know this 4 year old may not
> be going back by chance but yet the 13 year old starts in a month or two. With
> him being older he'll likely be eating things like steak, ice cream, etc. I
> just don't want to have to deal with eating that. What upset me is the ladies
> response which I will show below:
>
> Please know that we try to accommodate all of our families' special needs as
> best we can, and there is space on the paperwork for parents to express
> concerns that they have regarding dietary issues. The family you are talking
> about needs to speak directly to their therapist and express their concerns
> about their role in the therapy program. We have a number of families where
> the parents are vegetarian themselves, but are okay with their children eating
> meat and letting that child make that decision for themselves when they get
> older. We do ask these parents to attempt to be good role models for their
> children around eating, and this does involve putting foods into their mouths
> and possibly demonstrating chewing motions, and this includes meat. However,
> the parent does not need to swallow this food if it is against their beliefs.
> As such, they would not be actually eating the food. However, once a parent is
> in the treatment room, there is an assumption by the therapist that the parent
> will eat every food presented unless these issues are clarified before they
> enter the room. A parent could always, though, remind the therapist that they
> are vegetarian if somehow the therapist had forgotten. Typically we mark the
> exterior of the chart as "special dietary needs" to prevent a therapist from
> forgetting these types of issues. I am concerned that you do not feel like you
> can speak to their therapist about this issue and 2) somehow missed where to
> express these concerns on the paperwork or during the Intake process. Remember
> communication is very important.
> It is important for you to know that we do not and will not engage in a
> philosophical process with patients or families regarding their overall diet
> choices. Those choices are theirs to make, as long as there is no harm to the
> child. Many food choices that adults make for philosophical beliefs can be
> accommodated by appropriate diets for children. An adolescent's diet is even
> easier to accommodate.

Sounds pretty straightforward. It's also quite reasonable. Those are not
your children.

> Okay, well I do agree with her communication is important. My husband did
> shock me when he didn't say anything. Yet I guess what bothers me is her
> attitude about how we should eat meat in front of the kids (I guess at home as
> well as there). Well as she said just put it into your mouth and chew it if
> you don't mind. I explained to her how important my beliefs are and how
> vegetarians can even get sick if they eat meat.

Psychosomatic.

> I don't think non vegetarians
> understand this and her idea is just put the meat in and chew and I guess spit
> it out after. I dont' know about all of you. I definitely can't chew meat

Sure you can. Be a big girl. Open the tunnel.

> but
> I don't see even putting it into my mouth. The thing is ther are many choices
> to offer a kid and I don't see why you can't try so many non meat choices as
> long as you do offer meat at home. Any idea what I can do? I don't want this
> to turn into a big fight at the next session.

Yes, I have an idea. Give up fostering children. It is a task best
suited to people with good heads on their shoulders and open minds.
Those kids are not yours. They have enough to deal with -- they need
foster parents who accept them as they are AND who are willing and ready
to do what the KIDS need for proper development. You're in WAY over your
pointy head. You should keep your peculiar values to yourself and let
someone else raise those kids.

"LizH228" > wrote in message
...

I can'r believe they would [place two kids with eating problems into a home
that has known eating disorders.

So, let me get this straight, since you make little sense in your ponderous
tome...
You will feel ok about endangering these two kids to keep from eating meat,
is that about it?

Vegan is supposed to be about not harming animals right? And you have no
problem harming kids? And, you don't think that *you* have an eating
disorder?"
News flash, killer. Your diet is already killing animals in far more
gruesome, horrendous ways than meat animals suffer at slaughterhouses. Why
not give it a rest and help these kids instead of hand wringing over your
deficiencies.


delete typically long, verbose rendering of an eating disorder posing as a
religion...

Obviously you didn't read my msg. completely. I do not force these two kids not
to eat meat. The oldest does (the youngest can't eat anything yet) They are
welcome to eat all the meat they want. The agency knows fully what my diet is
and actually considering the owner is a nurse she is highly interested in my
diet and her daughter recently became vegetarian. She even told me I could
feed the kids both a vegetarian diet but I chose to offer them meat. I don't
care if they feed meat when they are in a feeding session but I do not want to
have to eat meat as well. That was my only issue. Maybe you should go back to
reading my msg. But Rick, I don't appreciate your emailed threats. I have
nothing that you can turn me into child protection services so don't even say
that. You can call if you want to so bad and tell them I am abusing these kids
but what I eat is not abuse to these kids.

"LizH228" > wrote in message
...
> Obviously you didn't read my msg. completely. I do not force these two
kids not
> to eat meat.
===========================
I didn't say you did. What I'm talking about is *your* eating disorder that
won't allow you to 'teach' them how to eat like you described.



The oldest does (the youngest can't eat anything yet) They are
> welcome to eat all the meat they want. The agency knows fully what my diet
is
> and actually considering the owner is a nurse she is highly interested in
my
> diet and her daughter recently became vegetarian. She even told me I
could
> feed the kids both a vegetarian diet but I chose to offer them meat. I
don't
> care if they feed meat when they are in a feeding session but I do not
want to
> have to eat meat as well.
=====================
Exactly. Even though that is the way you explained that these kids will
learn to eat. You put your eating disorder above teaching these kids.
And for what reason? For some false belief that you are somehow saving
animals?


That was my only issue. Maybe you should go back to
> reading my msg. But Rick, I don't appreciate your emailed threats.
=================================
Vegans seem to be good at this lying stuff, why is that? Take back this
outright LIE. I have never e-mailed you! I have never threatened you. You
aren't worth the seperate time one-on-one. You have really have issues,
don't you? Getting hard to defend your eating disorder?


I have
> nothing that you can turn me into child protection services so don't even
say
> that. You can call if you want to so bad and tell them I am abusing these
kids
> but what I eat is not abuse to these kids.
========================
And where did I say that? I suggest *you* read for comprehension.

Typical. make false claims about somebody else's actions, then disappear.
Ahh, the dishonesty of vegans is still top notch.
Must be the diet that makes them so hateful, mis-informed, and liars.


"rick etter" > wrote in message
...
>
> "LizH228" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Obviously you didn't read my msg. completely. I do not force these two
> kids not
> > to eat meat.
> ===========================
> I didn't say you did. What I'm talking about is *your* eating disorder
that
> won't allow you to 'teach' them how to eat like you described.
>
>
>
> The oldest does (the youngest can't eat anything yet) They are
> > welcome to eat all the meat they want. The agency knows fully what my
diet
> is
> > and actually considering the owner is a nurse she is highly interested
in
> my
> > diet and her daughter recently became vegetarian. She even told me I
> could
> > feed the kids both a vegetarian diet but I chose to offer them meat. I
> don't
> > care if they feed meat when they are in a feeding session but I do not
> want to
> > have to eat meat as well.
> =====================
> Exactly. Even though that is the way you explained that these kids will
> learn to eat. You put your eating disorder above teaching these kids.
> And for what reason? For some false belief that you are somehow saving
> animals?
>
>
> That was my only issue. Maybe you should go back to
> > reading my msg. But Rick, I don't appreciate your emailed threats.
> =================================
> Vegans seem to be good at this lying stuff, why is that? Take back this
> outright LIE. I have never e-mailed you! I have never threatened you.
You
> aren't worth the seperate time one-on-one. You have really have issues,
> don't you? Getting hard to defend your eating disorder?
>
>
> I have
> > nothing that you can turn me into child protection services so don't
even
> say
> > that. You can call if you want to so bad and tell them I am abusing
these
> kids
> > but what I eat is not abuse to these kids.
> ========================
> And where did I say that? I suggest *you* read for comprehension.
>
>
>

You know, there is a thing called "natural selection" where the species is
kept strong and vital through elimination of individuals that would weaken
it as a whole.

I cannot believe that ANYONE would spend this much time and effort raising
children that, most likely, will never contribute to society. It is just
wrong. 1000 years ago people who couldn't eat DIED. Its the way that
things are supposed to be.

SD