> You might call corn fed animals grass fed,

*** Nope, I didn't decide on the definition of these terms any more than I
decided the definition of "animal rights" or "organic".

but then
> you're a lying farmer who has no problem in lying
> to your customers no.

*** Uh Hu And what is your great contribution to society? How did you get to
be such a bitter person? I hope that whatever makes you so bitter gets
better and you can have a little joy in your life as I do.

> >*** "farmers" are not lying to the consumers, though certainly some have
and
> >do so.
>
> You've just contradicted yourself.

*** Uh no, I didn't. When you say "farmers" without any qualification then
you are lumping all famers in together. I know I asked this before and I am
sure that you will dodge the question again but do you choose to support the
very farmer you hate with your money by buying food or do you produce all
your food yourself?

> ... and obvious liar who thinks corn fed animals qualify
> as grass fed when selling it to the consumer.

*** _I_ don't think that. I am only pointing out the facts to you, not
stating my opinion.

> Thanks for giving the address where not to go when
> asking for advice on where to get grass fed beef.

*** No worries. You are not eligible to buy it anyway. We (my husband and I)
Would not allow a person such as yourself on our farm where our children
are.

Kala Thompson
Farmer
Richland Center, WI




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Russ Thompson wrote:

>>You might call corn fed animals grass fed,
>
>
> *** Nope, I didn't decide on the definition of these terms any more than I
> decided the definition of "animal rights" or "organic".
>
> but then
>
>>you're a lying farmer who has no problem in lying
>>to your customers no.
>
>
> *** Uh Hu And what is your great contribution to society?

Dreck? Are you kidding? He contributes nothing to
society, except a small amount of amusement value in
usenet. He is a fat slob of a sinkhole, consuming a
lot of resources and producing nothing.

> How did you get to be such a bitter person?

I already told you: he permanently ****ed up his back
by trying to prove to his drunken coworkers in an
English car garage how strong he was. Yep: you've
been arguing farming theory and practice, ethics, and
more with a permanently crippled, fat, medicine- and
booze-guzzling ignoramus. Car mechanics in England
have a little more vocational training than do a lot of
U.S. mechanics, but they have no training in ethics,
philosophy, logic, biology, anatomy, agronomy, or any
other academic subject matter that would make them even
knowledgeable lay persons, let alone experts, on the
issues about which Dreck likes to run his mouth.

> I hope that whatever makes you so bitter gets
> better and you can have a little joy in your life as I do.

His back is permanently ****ed up. He's a cripple, and
he'll die a cripple. It's next to impossible even to
feel sorry for him, since it was an enormously
offensive personality trait that led him to try to show
off as he did.

>
>
>>>*** "farmers" are not lying to the consumers, though certainly some have
>
> and
>
>>>do so.
>>
>>You've just contradicted yourself.
>
>
> *** Uh no, I didn't. When you say "farmers" without any qualification then
> you are lumping all famers in together. I know I asked this before and I am
> sure that you will dodge the question again but do you choose to support the
> very farmer you hate with your money by buying food or do you produce all
> your food yourself?
>
>
>>... and obvious liar who thinks corn fed animals qualify
>>as grass fed when selling it to the consumer.
>
>
> *** _I_ don't think that. I am only pointing out the facts to you, not
> stating my opinion.
>
>
>>Thanks for giving the address where not to go when
>>asking for advice on where to get grass fed beef.
>
>
> *** No worries. You are not eligible to buy it anyway. We (my husband and I)
> Would not allow a person such as yourself on our farm where our children
> are.
>
> Kala Thompson
> Farmer
> Richland Center, WI
>
>
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Kala wrote:
<...>
>>you're a lying farmer who has no problem in lying
>>to your customers no.
>
> *** Uh Hu And what is your great contribution to society?

He's made no contribution to society, just sucked off its teat.

> How did you get to be such a bitter person?

On a bet. He used to be a grease monkey.

I won't say it's a normal practice in garages, but it happens
more often than you might think, and isn't that much more
difficult than lifting a large drunk off the floor. The cylinder
head, etc. is always removed first, so you only have the
block to lift, and even then it's only shifted by a few feet
onto a resting spot made up with large chunks of wood
slid underneath it on top of the wings. After that, others
can help you lower it to the floor where you want it. You
can slip a disc picking up a pencil, and I've always had a
bit of a jerry back anyway, since my early teens. It had
nothing to do with being allegedly illiterate or stubborn.
Dreck: http://tinyurl.com/3ffw7

> I hope that whatever makes you so bitter gets
> better and you can have a little joy in your life as I do.

It only seems to get worse as he ages.

<...>
>>Thanks for giving the address where not to go when
>>asking for advice on where to get grass fed beef.
>
> *** No worries. You are not eligible to buy it anyway. We (my husband and I)
> Would not allow a person such as yourself on our farm where our children
> are.

Smart move. He's unsafe around animals as well:
http://tinyurl.com/3g5hv (one of his twin's entertaining posts)

usual suspect wrote:

> Kala wrote:
> <...>
>
>>> you're a lying farmer who has no problem in lying
>>> to your customers no.
>>
>>
>> *** Uh Hu And what is your great contribution to society?
>
>
> He's made no contribution to society, just sucked off its teat.
>
>> How did you get to be such a bitter person?
>
>
> On a bet. He used to be a grease monkey.
>
> I won't say it's a normal practice in garages, but it happens
> more often than you might think, and isn't that much more
> difficult than lifting a large drunk off the floor. The cylinder
> head, etc. is always removed first, so you only have the
> block to lift, and even then it's only shifted by a few feet
> onto a resting spot made up with large chunks of wood
> slid underneath it on top of the wings. After that, others
> can help you lower it to the floor where you want it. You
> can slip a disc picking up a pencil, and I've always had a
> bit of a jerry back anyway, since my early teens. It had
> nothing to do with being allegedly illiterate or stubborn.
> Dreck: http://tinyurl.com/3ffw7
>
>
>> I hope that whatever makes you so bitter gets
>> better and you can have a little joy in your life as I do.
>
>
> It only seems to get worse as he ages.
>
> <...>
>
>>> Thanks for giving the address where not to go when
>>> asking for advice on where to get grass fed beef.
>>
>>
>> *** No worries. You are not eligible to buy it anyway. We (my husband
>> and I)
>> Would not allow a person such as yourself on our farm where our children
>> are.
>
>
> Smart move. He's unsafe around animals as well:
> http://tinyurl.com/3g5hv (one of his twin's entertaining posts)
>

"Ray" > wrote in message

> [And] he still has not told us if he drives!


I still have my licence. No points. Testing one two one two.

Supermann, Supermann, and Supermann. Did I fail to mention Supermann??

Jonathan Ball > wrote in message link.net>...
> Jennifer wrote:
>
> >>>Note to Jennifer: GRASS FED BEEF DOES NOT GO TO FEEDLOTS. FEEDLOTS ARE
> >>>FOR GRAIN-FED OR GRAIN-FINISHED BEEF. YOU IDIOT. YOU LOATHSOME AND
> >>>PROPAGANDIST IDIOT!
> >>
> >>Note your own source: *SOME*. Not all. It's up to the consumer to
> >>determine whether the cattle are truly grass-fed or not. Of course,
> >>slothful louts like you shun taking responsibility and waddle around
> >>Tesco buying on price rather than principle. You are an unprinicipled,
> >>crippled grease monkey. Go eat your blood-soaked crisps.
> >>
> >
> >
> > But according to you grass-fed beef does not go to feedlots. So which
> > is it? Either is does or ot doesn't.
>
> Stop dodging the issue. You could find grass-fed beef
> and reduce your death toll, if you *really* were
> interested in causing fewer animal deaths. Why don't
> you do it? Why are you clinging to a LIE?

I am not the one dodging the issue. Usual Suspect is. Cattle are
either raised grass-fed or they or not. There should not be a gray
area. But there is a gray area.

Jennifer wrote:

> Jonathan Ball > wrote in message link.net>...
>
>>Jennifer wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>Note to Jennifer: GRASS FED BEEF DOES NOT GO TO FEEDLOTS. FEEDLOTS ARE
>>>>>FOR GRAIN-FED OR GRAIN-FINISHED BEEF. YOU IDIOT. YOU LOATHSOME AND
>>>>>PROPAGANDIST IDIOT!
>>>>
>>>>Note your own source: *SOME*. Not all. It's up to the consumer to
>>>>determine whether the cattle are truly grass-fed or not. Of course,
>>>>slothful louts like you shun taking responsibility and waddle around
>>>>Tesco buying on price rather than principle. You are an unprinicipled,
>>>>crippled grease monkey. Go eat your blood-soaked crisps.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>But according to you grass-fed beef does not go to feedlots. So which
>>>is it? Either is does or ot doesn't.
>>
>>Stop dodging the issue. You could find grass-fed beef
>>and reduce your death toll, if you *really* were
>>interested in causing fewer animal deaths. Why don't
>>you do it? Why are you clinging to a LIE?
>
>
> I am not the one dodging the issue.

Yes, you most certainly are. You are trying to avoid
admitting that a strictly vegetarian diet may not be
the least harm diet.

> Usual Suspect is. Cattle are
> either raised grass-fed or they or not. There should not be a gray
> area. But there is a gray area.

No, not really. There's only a contrived one. The
producers I've identified openly admit that they sell
grain-finished beef in addition to grass-fed beef. You
take all kinds of producers at their word, and you have
no rational basis for refusing to take these producers
at their word. When some manufacturer of a food you
like claims it contains no animal by-products, you take
him at his word, even there is NO LEGAL DEFINITION of
"vegan" as it applies to food.

You have a monstrous double standard, and it all stems
from your wish to cling to a LIE. The LIE is that not
eating animal parts somehow means you aren't killing
any, or are killing fewer, animals.

Why are you clinging to a LIE? Why are you dodging the
issue, which is to acknowledge the LIE?

"Jennifer" > wrote in message
om...
> > LOL But at a reduced impact from what you have now. I've never claimed
'no
> > impact', that's a vegan loon cliam..
> > That you continue to automatically refuse to consider any alternative
that
> > doen't follow your simple rule for a simple mind, just says that your
real
> > concern is *NOT* about your impact on animals or the environmant,
killer.
>
> Then what does say about you my friend, when all you can say is "Eat
> more Grassfed Beef", without regard to the impacts that your decision
> might have.
==================
I've made comparisons, fool. You are the one that has failed to consider
all your options, killer.


Simple rules for simple minds I guess.
==========================
No, because *I* do not claim to be living my life to make a difference.
That's *your* claim, one that is obviously false, since you are still here
on usenet killing animals for nothing more than your entertainment.

"Jennifer" > wrote in message
om...
> usual suspect > wrote in message
>...
> > Jennifer wrote:
> > >>LOL But at a reduced impact from what you have now. I've never
claimed 'no
> > >>impact', that's a vegan loon cliam..
> > >>That you continue to automatically refuse to consider any alternative
that
> > >>doen't follow your simple rule for a simple mind, just says that your
real
> > >>concern is *NOT* about your impact on animals or the environmant,
killer.
> > >
> > > Then what does say about you my friend, when all you can say is "Eat
> > > more Grassfed Beef", without regard to the impacts that your decision
> > > might have. Simple rules for simple minds I guess.
> >
> > What impact does eating grass-fed beef and wild game have that he should
> > regard? What impact does YOUR vegan diet have for which you are either
> > willfully ignorant or blinded by zealotry?
> >
> > The following should enlighten you about dietary choices and reality.
> >
> > Applying the Least Harm Principle, Davis argues that people may be
> > morally obliged to consume a diet based on plants and grazing ruminants
> > in order to cause the least harm to animals.
> >
> > Davis's work goes beyond the vegan debate to grapple with issues of
> > animal cloning, genetic engineering, and ethical treatment of production
> > animals. Through the OSU Agriculture Experiment Station and a regional
> > project on animal bioethics, Davis is part of a team of biological and
> > social scientists from throughout the West who are working to integrate
> > ethics and moral reasoning into the work and study of agriculture.
> >
> > http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
> > ------
> >
> > How many animals died for your breakfast, Jenny?
>
> If we were to go back to putting cows on pasture their whole lives,
> where exactly are we going to put the 100 million cattle that are
> currently on feedlots?
=======================


>
> http://www.foodrevolution.org/grassfedbeef.htm
>
> Just about the only land that isn't grazed is in places that for one
> reason or another can't be used by livestock-inaccessible areas, dense
> forests and brushlands, the driest deserts, sand dunes, extremely
> rocky areas, cliffs and mountaintops, cities and towns, roads and
> parking lots, airports, and golf courses. In the American West,
> virtually every place that can be grazed, is grazed.
=====================
Hey fool, if all 100 million of the cows are in feedlots, how do they manage
to roam these lands? God, you truly are one stupid killing machine.



snip of rest of propaganda scree...

"Jennifer" > wrote in message
om...
> > > Note to Jennifer: GRASS FED BEEF DOES NOT GO TO FEEDLOTS. FEEDLOTS ARE
> > > FOR GRAIN-FED OR GRAIN-FINISHED BEEF. YOU IDIOT. YOU LOATHSOME AND
> > > PROPAGANDIST IDIOT!
> > Note your own source: *SOME*. Not all. It's up to the consumer to
> > determine whether the cattle are truly grass-fed or not. Of course,
> > slothful louts like you shun taking responsibility and waddle around
> > Tesco buying on price rather than principle. You are an unprinicipled,
> > crippled grease monkey. Go eat your blood-soaked crisps.
> >
>
> But according to you grass-fed beef does not go to feedlots. So which
> is it? Either is does or ot doesn't.
=====================
Fool, *ALL* beef cows that end up at the slaughter house were grass fed.
The difference that many are not finished in feedlots. The fact remains
that they all are grass fed.

"Jennifer" > wrote in message
om...
> Jonathan Ball > wrote in message
link.net>...
> > Jennifer wrote:
> >
> > >>>Note to Jennifer: GRASS FED BEEF DOES NOT GO TO FEEDLOTS. FEEDLOTS
ARE
> > >>>FOR GRAIN-FED OR GRAIN-FINISHED BEEF. YOU IDIOT. YOU LOATHSOME AND
> > >>>PROPAGANDIST IDIOT!
> > >>
> > >>Note your own source: *SOME*. Not all. It's up to the consumer to
> > >>determine whether the cattle are truly grass-fed or not. Of course,
> > >>slothful louts like you shun taking responsibility and waddle around
> > >>Tesco buying on price rather than principle. You are an unprinicipled,
> > >>crippled grease monkey. Go eat your blood-soaked crisps.
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > But according to you grass-fed beef does not go to feedlots. So which
> > > is it? Either is does or ot doesn't.
> >
> > Stop dodging the issue. You could find grass-fed beef
> > and reduce your death toll, if you *really* were
> > interested in causing fewer animal deaths. Why don't
> > you do it? Why are you clinging to a LIE?
>
> I am not the one dodging the issue. Usual Suspect is. Cattle are
> either raised grass-fed or they or not. There should not be a gray
> area. But there is a gray area.
=====================
ALL cattle are grass-fed.
ALL cattle are grass-fed.
ALL cattle are grass-fed.
ALL cattle are grass-fed.

Got that yet, killer?

"Jennifer" > wrote in message
om...
> > > Note to Jennifer: GRASS FED BEEF DOES NOT GO TO FEEDLOTS. FEEDLOTS ARE
> > > FOR GRAIN-FED OR GRAIN-FINISHED BEEF. YOU IDIOT. YOU LOATHSOME AND
> > > PROPAGANDIST IDIOT!
> > Note your own source: *SOME*. Not all. It's up to the consumer to
> > determine whether the cattle are truly grass-fed or not. Of course,
> > slothful louts like you shun taking responsibility and waddle around
> > Tesco buying on price rather than principle. You are an unprinicipled,
> > crippled grease monkey. Go eat your blood-soaked crisps.
> >
>
> But according to you grass-fed beef does not go to feedlots. So which
> is it? Either is does or ot doesn't.
=====================
Why do you ignore the cites that I post for your education, killer?

How are Cattle Raised?
All cattle start out eating grass; three-fourths of them are "finished"
(grown to maturity) in feedlots where they are fed specially formulated feed
based on corn or other grains.

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/oa/pubs/focusbeef.htm



I suppose you are now also on of those black-helicopter fruitcases that
believe the gov is out to personnally get you by always lying...

Death means life, but we're not supposed to consider the
billions of lives that animals experience only because humans
raise them for food...well...we're supposed to consider the
horrible ones, but not the decent ones.
Life means death, but we're supposed to think of the animals
raised for food as if death is worse for them than it is for all of the
other things that experience life, including those who die of
starvation, disease and non-human predators.

oh whoopie, another crosspost

Jim Webster wrote:

> oh whoopie, another crosspost

****WIT David Harrison does that a lot. He adds a lot
of extraneous newsgroups to a thread that the original
poster saw fit to limit only to ones that might be
pertinent. I try to remember to remove them when
replying to ****WIT, but sometimes I forget.

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 16:13:20 -0600, "Russ Thompson" > wrote:

>> You might call corn fed animals grass fed,
>
>*** Nope,

Yes, you did, but as usual you snipped the
evidence away, so let's put it all back.
[start ipse dixit]
>> >> [Some meat producers use "grass-fed" to describe
>> >> animals that are raised in pens on industrial feed,
>> >> including corn, and finished on rations of grass in
>> >> feedlots far from home.
[you]
>*** That would be an accurate description of at least
>some animals that are called "grass fed".
[end]

From that it is clear you believe animals raised
in pens and fed on corn are grass fed beef
animals. I'm not surprised you'd lie about this
issue, being a farmer.

> but then
>> you're a lying farmer who has no problem in lying
>> to your customers no.
>
>*** Uh Hu

That's right.
>
>> >*** "farmers" are not lying to the consumers,
>> > though certainly some have and do so.
>>
>> You've just contradicted yourself.
>
>*** Uh no, I didn't.

Yes, you did, liar. The first half of your sentence
claims farmers don't lie to their consumers but
the second half concedes that they do. You
contradicted yourself.
>
>> ... and obvious liar who thinks corn fed animals qualify
>> as grass fed when selling it to the consumer.
>
>*** _I_ don't think that.

Yes, you do, liar.
[start ipse dixit]
>> >> [Some meat producers use "grass-fed" to describe
>> >> animals that are raised in pens on industrial feed,
>> >> including corn, and finished on rations of grass in
>> >> feedlots far from home.
[you]
>*** That would be an accurate description of at least some animals that are
>called "grass fed".
[end]

From that it is clear you believe animals raised
in pens and fed on corn are grass fed beef
animals. I'm not surprised you'd lie about this
issue, being a farmer.

>I am only pointing out the facts to you

The facts are that farmers intentionally lie to
their customer about their product, but you,
being a lying farmer keep snipping the solid
evidence away, hoping liars like yourself won't
get caught out and seen as the liars you are.
<unsnip>
[Some meat producers use "grass-fed" to describe
animals that are raised in pens on industrial feed,
including corn, and finished on rations of grass in
feedlots far from home. A similar confusion still
surrounds "free-range," which can refer to animals
that roam where they please or to animals kept in
barns and allowed to range in circumscribed yards.
No one regulates the use of these terms, and given
how many years it took to achieve a national
definition of "organic," it may be a long time before
anyone does.]
http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2003/05/kummer.htm

[Grass Fed Claims; This would appear to be the
most commented upon topic in this docket. We
will not belabor all the points of concern which
are addressed but will focus on the areas of
concern to our cooperative of growers. While
Grain Fed addressed specifically what the method
IS, Grass Fed seems to try to define what it IS
NOT. This dichotomy is confusing. We feel that
you need to define both as what they ARE since
that is what is motivating the consumer.

While the intent of this language would suggest
that Grass Fed animals are not Grain Finished,
especially in Feedlots, the language as written is
not at all clear to that end. In fact by allowing
80% of consumed energy to be concentrated at
the finishing stage, our data suggests that beef
animals could be fed 50% forage /50% grain for
70 days at finishing. Likewise an animal could be
fed 85% grain for 60 days and still qualify under
these guidelines. This is absolutely not in line with
consumer expectations as is borne out in the
website comments.]
http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/stand/comments/mc213.pdf

>> Thanks for giving the address where not to go when
>> asking for advice on where to get grass fed beef.
>
>*** No worries.

I'm not worried about the fact as you are.

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 19:06:14 GMT, usual suspect > wrote:

>Dreck wrote:
>>>>>Note your own source: *SOME*. Not all.
>>>>
>>>>That's right, and I've never said otherwise.
>>>
>>>I'm glad you acknowledge the difference.
>>
>> The difference is important because it shows
>> that the potential customer of grass fed beef
>> will never be able to distinguish between the
>> honest farmer and his lying peers.
>
>No, it only affects indiscriminate consumers like you.

The farmer's lies affect anyone in the market
for grass fed beef. I don't buy rotting dead
flesh to put in my ethical mouth, so it doesn't
worry me in the least. What it does show is
that grass fed beef is likely to be fed corn and
raised in pens and feedlots like any other beef.
>
>> Farmers
>> are under no obligation to tell the truth about
>> their beef, and this has been shown to be true
>> from the evidence you snipped from USDA.
>
>Not entirely true

It's exactly true, and the evidence I've brought
here from USDA supports my claim 100%.
>
>>>>>It's up to the consumer to
>>>>>determine whether the cattle are truly grass-fed or not.
>>>>
>>>>How can they determine whether the cattle
>>>>are grass fed or not while farmers are lying
>>>>to them?
>>>
>>>By visiting the ranch and witness how the cattle are
>>>fed and treated firsthand, just like Rick does.
>>
>> You've ignored the point in that farmers are
>> lying to their customers,
>
>Ipse dixit. The stuff you cited mentions *some* producers.

That's right, and this brings us back to the question
whether consumers can trust the farmer's word.
Obviously they can't.
>
>> so even visiting them
>> first hand is no guarantee that the beef you're
>> buying hasn't been corn fed in a feedlot.
>
>It is if you agree to purchase a specific steer, or a side or quarter
>from it. You then know (or can know) when it is due for slaughter and
>where it will be slaughtered. Purchasing locally raised and processed
>meats does assure that it is exactly as described.
>
No, it doesn't. The farmer will lie to his customer
and finish his cattle in feedlots far from home.
[Some meat producers use "grass-fed" to describe
animals that are raised in pens on industrial feed,
including corn, and finished on rations of grass in
feedlots far from home. A similar confusion still
surrounds "free-range," which can refer to animals
that roam where they please or to animals kept in
barns and allowed to range in circumscribed yards.
No one regulates the use of these terms, and given
how many years it took to achieve a national
definition of "organic," it may be a long time before
anyone does.]
http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2003/05/kummer.htm
>>><...>
>>>
>>>>Note: While the intent of this language would
>>>>suggest that Grass Fed animals are not Grain
>>>>Finished, especially in Feedlots, the language
>>>>as written is not at all clear to that end. In fact
>>>>by allowing 80% of consumed energy to be
>>>>concentrated at the finishing stage, our data
>>>>suggests that beef animals could be fed 50%
>>>>forage /50% grain for 70 days at finishing.
>>>>Likewise an animal could be fed 85% grain for
>>>>60 days and still qualify under these guidelines.
>>>>This is absolutely not in line with consumer
>>>>expectations as is borne out in the website
>>>>comments.
>>>
>>>Caveat emptor. Cleaning up regulations would help settle your little
>>>"angels on a pin" quibbling
>>
>> Whatever your reasons for trying to minimise
>> this issue, the fact that corn fed animals are
>> legally sold to customers as grass fed beef
>> proves meat of this description cannot be trusted
>> as a viable alternative to any other beef.
>
>Do you have any evidence of where this occurs and what percentage of
>meat sold as grass-fed is really grain-fed?
>
I've supplied the evidence that it occurs many
times now. No one knows where or how
often customers are lied to, but it's clearly a
problem which is big enough to be of concern
to USDA.

>>>(well maybe not; you're a very contemptible,
>>>dole-scrounging arsehole),
>>
>> Your eagerness to resort to personal attacks
>> when shown to be in error makes you look
>> desperate, spiteful and stupid, don't you think?
>
>No

I do. Your eagerness to resort to personal attacks
when you're shown to be in error marks you down
as a desperate and pathetic individual who cannot
stand his ground.
>
>>>>It looks to me that you owe Jennifer an apology
>>>>for caliming," GRASS FED BEEF DOES NOT
>>>>GO TO FEEDLOTS.", YOU LOATHSOME
>>>>AND PROPAGANDIST IDIOT!
>>>
>>>Bullshit, Dreck.
>>
>> You made a categorical statement that GRASS
>> FED BEEF DOES NOT GO TO FEEDLOTS.
>
>By definition, I am correct.

No, you are not. You lied.
>
>> You are wrong, so you owe Jennifer an apology
>> after you've retracted your claim.
>
>I am correct

You are wrong, and the evidence proves it. You
are a liar.

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 22:35:09 GMT, Jonathan Ball > wrote:

>Russ Thompson wrote:
>>
>> How did you get to be such a bitter person?
>
>I already told you: he permanently ****ed up his back
>by trying to prove to his drunken coworkers in an
>English car garage how strong he was.

That hasn't made me bitter about anything. If
anything, it made a man out of me. So let's
look at what has made you so bitter, Jon, eh?

Your drunken father left you and his family
while you were all very young, and this, by
your own admission has left you all very bitter.

"I was 9 when they split.
.......
I grew up thinking my siblings and I were not seriously
affected by it. Only in relatively recent years have I
seen how wrong I was.

My older brother and younger brother both have led
thoroughly unproductive and unhappy lives. Neither has
had any career success at all. My younger brother
bounces from one job to another, all of them ending in
a firing. He hardly has a pot to **** in. My older
brother hasn't worked in at least 15 years. Younger
has been married and divorced twice; older has been
married, unhappily, for over 25 years (lucky for him).
My sister has had ups and downs, but has been doing
okay for the last 10 years; married and divorced, once.
I think she's done relatively better than my brothers
in part because she was too young (4) to have any idea
what was going on at the time."
Jonathan Ball http://tinyurl.com/v50s

Why did your drunken father leave you all, Jon?
Was it your mother's fault? What does it feel like
to be rejected by your own father at nine years
old? No wonder you're so bitter at the World and
everyone in it.

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 22:55:10 GMT, Jonathan Ball > wrote:
>usual suspect wrote:
>> Kala wrote:
>> <...>
>>> How did you get to be such a bitter person?
>>
>>
>> On a bet. He used to be a grease monkey.
>>
>> I won't say it's a normal practice in garages, but it happens
>> more often than you might think, and isn't that much more
>> difficult than lifting a large drunk off the floor. The cylinder
>> head, etc. is always removed first, so you only have the
>> block to lift, and even then it's only shifted by a few feet
>> onto a resting spot made up with large chunks of wood
>> slid underneath it on top of the wings. After that, others
>> can help you lower it to the floor where you want it. You
>> can slip a disc picking up a pencil, and I've always had a
>> bit of a jerry back anyway, since my early teens. It had
>> nothing to do with being allegedly illiterate or stubborn.
>> Dreck: http://tinyurl.com/3ffw7
>>
>>
That hasn't made me bitter about anything. If
anything, it made a man out of me. So let's
look at what has made you so bitter, Jon, eh?

Your drunken father left you and his family
while you were all very young, and this, by
your own admission has left you all very bitter.

"I was 9 when they split.
.......
I grew up thinking my siblings and I were not seriously
affected by it. Only in relatively recent years have I
seen how wrong I was.

My older brother and younger brother both have led
thoroughly unproductive and unhappy lives. Neither has
had any career success at all. My younger brother
bounces from one job to another, all of them ending in
a firing. He hardly has a pot to **** in. My older
brother hasn't worked in at least 15 years. Younger
has been married and divorced twice; older has been
married, unhappily, for over 25 years (lucky for him).
My sister has had ups and downs, but has been doing
okay for the last 10 years; married and divorced, once.
I think she's done relatively better than my brothers
in part because she was too young (4) to have any idea
what was going on at the time."
Jonathan Ball http://tinyurl.com/v50s

Why did your drunken father leave you all, Jon?
Was it your mother's fault? What does it feel like
to be rejected by your own father at nine years
old? No wonder you're so bitter at the World and
everyone in it.
>>
>> Smart move. He's unsafe around animals as well:
>> http://tinyurl.com/3g5hv (one of his twin's entertaining posts)
>>
You forgot to mention that those same archives
contain a written confession from the origin of
those allegations admitting that they in fact lied
about me.

[start]
From: Belinda Laden )
Subject: Family man - Derek?
Newsgroups: alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian
Date: 2002-09-20 01:19:53 PST

> *I can lie about your family if i want,* especially after the way
> you have behaved towards David so what you are an arsehole...
[end]

I particularly liked this one;

[start]
From :*********
Date :Fri, 20 Sep 2002 21:21:05 +0100

no need for you to get soooooo upset and excited Alison, its
really not good for you my dear ))))

You will be so pleased to know its all sorted this end.. and
it wasn't that hard to come clean now was it sweetheart???.....
although maybe next time you might try a little harder to own
up a little sooner????

Now that we know that it was YOU who was the instigator,
the liar, the Shafter MY mother is more than happy ......and
that my dear is all I care about..

Im not sure quite how you are going to achieve leaving the
family when you never belonged in the first place, but like all
the other lies you connived and concocted .. Im sure you will
find a way
____________________________________________
[end]

So much for your sources, Jon. You knew they admitted
to lying about me, yet you continue to repeat those lies
nevertheless. That doesn't say much for your honesty.

> How are Cattle Raised?
> All cattle start out eating grass; three-fourths of them are "finished"
> (grown to maturity) in feedlots where they are fed specially formulated feed
> based on corn or other grains.
>
> http://www.fsis.usda.gov/oa/pubs/focusbeef.htm

I have said this before and I will say this again. The mere fact that
most cattle are finished on grain is what causes problems. It is not
natural for cows to eat grain, and they have to be put on high amounts
of antibiotics. These antibiotics are still left in the meat you eat.
Ranchers should not be able to label a cow grass-fed if he is
finished on grain. Do I need to explain this AGAIN, or are you going
to comprehend this this time?

On 15 Jan 2004 05:26:10 -0800, (Jennifer) wrote:

>> How are Cattle Raised?
>> All cattle start out eating grass; three-fourths of them are "finished"
>> (grown to maturity) in feedlots where they are fed specially formulated feed
>> based on corn or other grains.
>>
>> http://www.fsis.usda.gov/oa/pubs/focusbeef.htm
>
>I have said this before and I will say this again. The mere fact that
>most cattle are finished on grain is what causes problems. It is not
>natural for cows to eat grain, and they have to be put on high amounts
>of antibiotics. These antibiotics are still left in the meat you eat.
> Ranchers should not be able to label a cow grass-fed if he

...she

>is
>finished on grain. Do I need to explain this AGAIN, or are you going
>to comprehend this this time?

Jennifer wrote:
>>How are Cattle Raised?
>>All cattle start out eating grass; three-fourths of them are "finished"
>>(grown to maturity) in feedlots where they are fed specially formulated feed
>>based on corn or other grains.
>>
>>http://www.fsis.usda.gov/oa/pubs/focusbeef.htm
>
>
> I have said this before and I will say this again. The mere fact that
> most cattle are finished on grain is what causes problems.

This is not a problem. You can find grass-fed beef;
you KNOW you can. You're just looking for excuses to
continue clinging to the LIE of "veganism".

"Jennifer" > wrote in message
om...
> > How are Cattle Raised?
> > All cattle start out eating grass; three-fourths of them are "finished"
> > (grown to maturity) in feedlots where they are fed specially formulated
feed
> > based on corn or other grains.
> >
> > http://www.fsis.usda.gov/oa/pubs/focusbeef.htm
>
> I have said this before and I will say this again. The mere fact that
> most cattle are finished on grain is what causes problems.
=============================
Sure, but that isn't what you said that I replied to. You claimed that all
cows were warehoused and fed grain exclusivly. You lied, you got caught,
and now you're tap-dancing around trying to get out of the hole you dug for
yourself. Besides that, you have still to refute anything I've said about
the choices *YOU* make for your diet and how you kill animals. Why is that,
hypocrite? Afraid to really think for yourself for once?



It is not
> natural for cows to eat grain, and they have to be put on high amounts
> of antibiotics. These antibiotics are still left in the meat you eat.
> Ranchers should not be able to label a cow grass-fed if he is
> finished on grain. Do I need to explain this AGAIN, or are you going
> to comprehend this this time?
====================
Yes, but it's your comprenesion that needs to be worked on, killer.

Again, there are grass fed meats that contain no hormones, no antibiotics,
and are fed no grain. Why is it you cannot or willnot answer the questions
i've posed to you/ L:ike the typical vegan loon, you won't discuss *YOUR*
diet, all you can do is spew your hatred and lys about what you think others
are doing. When you get around to answering the qustions about yiour diet,
maybe you'll finally be able to honestly discuss something. Until tghen,
you yet another vegan loon with nothing but lys, and delusions.


When you finally figure out that you *could* cause less death and suffering
by replacing many of your calories with some meats, then maybe you won't be
the stupid killing moron you are now. :-)



Now, tell us about how cruelty-free your diet is now.

ipse dixit > wrote in message >. ..
> On 15 Jan 2004 05:26:10 -0800, (Jennifer) wrote:
>
> >> How are Cattle Raised?
> >> All cattle start out eating grass; three-fourths of them are "finished"
> >> (grown to maturity) in feedlots where they are fed specially formulated feed
> >> based on corn or other grains.
> >>
> >> http://www.fsis.usda.gov/oa/pubs/focusbeef.htm
> >
> >I have said this before and I will say this again. The mere fact that
> >most cattle are finished on grain is what causes problems. It is not
> >natural for cows to eat grain, and they have to be put on high amounts
> >of antibiotics. These antibiotics are still left in the meat you eat.
> > Ranchers should not be able to label a cow grass-fed if he
>
> ..she


You're right. Thanks

Jennifer wrote:
>>How are Cattle Raised?
>>All cattle start out eating grass; three-fourths of them are "finished"
>>(grown to maturity) in feedlots where they are fed specially formulated feed
>>based on corn or other grains.
>>
>>http://www.fsis.usda.gov/oa/pubs/focusbeef.htm
>
> I have said this before and I will say this again. The mere fact that
> most cattle are finished on grain is what causes problems.

It's not a problem except for people who don't eat it. Want to put an
end to grain-fed cattle? Eat grass-fed. The market responds to consumer
choice, not to extremists who avoid the market altogether.

> It is not
> natural for cows to eat grain,

Grains are the seeds of mature grasses. Cattle and other ruminants eat
grasses. It is natural for cows to eat some grains.

> and they have to be put on high amounts
> of antibiotics.

Ipse dixit and non sequitur. The use of antibiotics in livestock
production is mainly prophylactic (i.e., preventive) since the cattle
population density at a feedlot invites disease.

> These antibiotics are still left in the meat you eat.

They're also found in the water you drink, the rice you eat, the beans
you eat, and your fruits and veggies. The varieties of antibiotics, and
other medications, are consistent not only with livestock usage but
human usage as well. In fact, one study found human antibiotics in
higher concentrations than animal antibiotics:
The most frequently detected antibiotics were four used to treat
humans for pneumonias (erythromycin-H20, 22% of samples),
"strep" throat (lincomycin, 19%), and middle ear, urinary tract,
respiratory tract and HIV-opportunistic infections
(trimethoprim, 27% and sulfamethoxazole, 19%). (The latter two
antibiotics are often packaged together under the brand name
"Bactrim" or "Septra.") Tylosin, used in beef cattle and swine
production, was the fifth most frequently detected antibiotic,
appearing in 14% of the samples.

http://www.ucsusa.org/food_and_envir...fm?pageID=1119

Have you ever taken antibiotics, Jenny? I bet you have. Why do you
pollute our waters?

> Ranchers should not be able to label a cow grass-fed if he is
> finished on grain.

On that we agree.

> Do I need to explain this AGAIN, or are you going
> to comprehend this this time?

No, but you're not much different from those mislabeling ranchers since
you use information about grain-fed cattle production to discuss
grass-fed. When will you the make proper distinctions?

Jonathan Ball > wrote in message ink.net>...
> Jennifer wrote:
>
> >>You still are missing it, aren't you killer?
> >>I'm talking about grass fed beef and game. No grains are grown for them.
> >>What part of *NO* do you now not understand?
> >>I was surprised that you had problems with three letter words, but truly
> >>amazed that you don't understand 2 letter words. Is english not your first
> >>language?
> >
> >
> > And what your are not seeing is that there are still enviromental
> > impacts in grass-fed beef. From the waste they produce, to the
> > methane they produce.
>
> There are environmental impacts in EVERYTHING, but that
> doesn't stop you from doing them. I will bet money
> that you could make some relatively small adjustments
> in your current "lifestyle" that would result in a
> smaller environmental impact, which is another way of
> saying that we KNOW you are not minimizing.
>

You are right. Everything we do has impacts on the environment. From
the cars we drive to the foods we eat to the waste we produce.
Americans are the worst. We consume more fossil fuels than any other
country. We produce more waste than any other country. Everyone
could do a little better. Even you Jon.

What I would like to happen is to get back to a more natural way of
living. That would mean that we would need tougher regulations on
industry, polluters, business, and consumers. German has a great
mandatory recycling programs where you are heavily fined if you throw
away thrash that could be recycled. America needs something like
this. We need to stop our wastefulness. But most Americans are lazy
and are not willing to get off their asses to change anything. They
are happy with status quo, and fail to look into the future to see
what they are doing now will impact the lives of there children.

> wrote in message
om...
> Jonathan Ball > wrote in message
ink.net>...
> > Jennifer wrote:
> >
> > >>You still are missing it, aren't you killer?
> > >>I'm talking about grass fed beef and game. No grains are grown for
them.
> > >>What part of *NO* do you now not understand?
> > >>I was surprised that you had problems with three letter words, but
truly
> > >>amazed that you don't understand 2 letter words. Is english not your
first
> > >>language?
> > >
> > >
> > > And what your are not seeing is that there are still enviromental
> > > impacts in grass-fed beef. From the waste they produce, to the
> > > methane they produce.
> >
> > There are environmental impacts in EVERYTHING, but that
> > doesn't stop you from doing them. I will bet money
> > that you could make some relatively small adjustments
> > in your current "lifestyle" that would result in a
> > smaller environmental impact, which is another way of
> > saying that we KNOW you are not minimizing.
> >
>
> You are right. Everything we do has impacts on the environment. From
> the cars we drive to the foods we eat to the waste we produce.
> Americans are the worst. We consume more fossil fuels than any other
> country. We produce more waste than any other country. Everyone
> could do a little better. Even you Jon.
>
> What I would like to happen is to get back to a more natural way of
> living.
====================
LOL No you don't. You're too teid to your presiouc conveniences. Proof?
Here you are on usenet claiming to want to limit unneeded consumption.
Nothing gets much less necessary than usenet entertainment.




That would mean that we would need tougher regulations on
> industry, polluters, business, and consumers.
===========================
Sure, and one great place to start is on the mono-culyure crop production
you rely on for your cheap, convenient veggies.


German has a great
> mandatory recycling programs where you are heavily fined if you throw
> away thrash that could be recycled. America needs something like
> this. We need to stop our wastefulness. But most Americans are lazy
> and are not willing to get off their asses to change anything.
=======================
Hence, we have 'veganism'. The ultimate in not doing anything disguised as
'caring'.


They
> are happy with status quo, and fail to look into the future to see
> what they are doing now will impact the lives of there children.
====================
Yep, vegans are notorious for ignoring their impact on animals and the
environment. Afterall, all they follow is a simple rule for simple minds.
They feel that focusing all their spew on what they think others are doing
gives them some kind of free pass.

> > http://www.foodrevolution.org/grassfedbeef.htm
> >
> > Just about the only land that isn't grazed is in places that for one
> > reason or another can't be used by livestock-inaccessible areas, dense
> > forests and brushlands, the driest deserts, sand dunes, extremely
> > rocky areas, cliffs and mountaintops, cities and towns, roads and
> > parking lots, airports, and golf courses. In the American West,
> > virtually every place that can be grazed, is grazed.
> =====================
> Hey fool, if all 100 million of the cows are in feedlots, how do they manage
> to roam these lands? God, you truly are one stupid killing machine.

Like I have stated before, most cattle grazed for a period of six
months. They are then sent to the feedlots. This allows for a whole
new batch a cows to graze. Once they are "grass-fed", then they too
are moved to feedlots. And the process starts over again.

Jennifer wrote:

>>>http://www.foodrevolution.org/grassfedbeef.htm
>>>
>>>Just about the only land that isn't grazed is in places that for one
>>>reason or another can't be used by livestock-inaccessible areas, dense
>>>forests and brushlands, the driest deserts, sand dunes, extremely
>>>rocky areas, cliffs and mountaintops, cities and towns, roads and
>>>parking lots, airports, and golf courses. In the American West,
>>>virtually every place that can be grazed, is grazed.
>>
>>=====================
>>Hey fool, if all 100 million of the cows are in feedlots, how do they manage
>>to roam these lands? God, you truly are one stupid killing machine.
>
>
> Like I have stated before

What you stated before was a dodge. Why are you
dodging the real issue: that you, personally, could
find and obtain grass-fed beef and assuredly reduce the
number of animal deaths you cause via your diet...IF
you really were interested in pursuing a least-harm diet?

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 21:04:05 GMT, Jonathan Ball > wrote:

>Jennifer wrote:
>
>> Like I have stated before
>
>What you stated before was a dodge. Why are you
>dodging the real issue: that you, personally, could
>find and obtain grass-fed beef and assuredly reduce the
>number of animal deaths you cause via your diet...IF
>you really were interested in pursuing a least-harm diet?

And if you were honestly interested in advocating
a least-harm diet you would include crops grown
under glass or foraging instead of that grass fed
beef you're continually pushing.

HOLLAND WANTS TO INCREASE CULTIVATION
UNDER GLASS
According to information from the Zentrale Markt- und
Preisberichtstelle (ZMP), the Dutch government wants
to increase the production of organic products under glass
by seven times the present 1.9 % to 15 % in the coming
years. In 2000, 83 hectares of organic products were
cultivated under glass and plastic sheeting in Holland
and some 90 hectares inGermany. In the conventional
sector, there are 970 hectares under glass in Germany.
http://tinyurl.com/775j

You eat it if you want to, but don't keep pushing it on
others.

"Jennifer" > wrote in message
om...
> > > http://www.foodrevolution.org/grassfedbeef.htm
> > >
> > > Just about the only land that isn't grazed is in places that for one
> > > reason or another can't be used by livestock-inaccessible areas, dense
> > > forests and brushlands, the driest deserts, sand dunes, extremely
> > > rocky areas, cliffs and mountaintops, cities and towns, roads and
> > > parking lots, airports, and golf courses. In the American West,
> > > virtually every place that can be grazed, is grazed.
> > =====================
> > Hey fool, if all 100 million of the cows are in feedlots, how do they
manage
> > to roam these lands? God, you truly are one stupid killing machine.
>
> Like I have stated before, most cattle grazed for a period of six
> months. They are then sent to the feedlots. This allows for a whole
> new batch a cows to graze. Once they are "grass-fed", then they too
> are moved to feedlots. And the process starts over again.
========================
Hey jennie, why'd you dishonestly snip out what you actually posted?
Toostupid to even know what you are typing now?
Here I'll add it back in for you...

"...> If we were to go back to putting cows on pasture their whole lives,
> where exactly are we going to put the 100 million cattle that are
> currently on feedlots?..."
=======================
Again, where are these 100 million cow feedlots? Did you not read the site
I posted for you? There are only 35 million beef cows, and only 3/4 of them
are finished on grain. Again, you have no clue as to what you are talking
about. No surprise there though. You haven't since you started your little
ignorant foray through usenet.


Now, tell us about how you diet is cruelrty-free. Tell us how your diet is
environmentally sound. You can't, that's why you always snipp out the parts
you can't answer, the parts you can't defend, and the parts you can'r
refute.


Here, you've never commented on these yet, killer...



Here are some sites, with info on specific areas and
pesticides. Animals die.
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm
http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm
http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...feFactSheet.pd
f
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/


http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm
http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html
http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html
http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.htm




http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html
http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm


Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either,
here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton.
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/


To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field,
here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there
can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field.
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs
/natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8
http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf
http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html


To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and
maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple
dealing with power and communications.
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html

>
> > It is not
> > natural for cows to eat grain,
>
> Grains are the seeds of mature grasses. Cattle and other ruminants eat
> grasses. It is natural for cows to eat some grains.
>

You could not be more wrong if you tried:

http://www.foodrevolution.org/grassfedbeef.htm

Switching a cow from grass to grain is so disturbing to the animal's
digestive system that it can kill the animal if not done gradually and
if the animal is not continually fed antibiotics. These animals are
designed to forage, but we make them eat grain, primarily corn, in
order to make them as fat as possible as fast as possible.

Jennifer wrote:

>>>It is not
>>>natural for cows to eat grain,
>>
>>Grains are the seeds of mature grasses. Cattle and other ruminants eat
>>grasses. It is natural for cows to eat some grains.
>>
>
>
> You could not be more wrong if you tried:

You are wrong. Corn is a grass, and cattle do indeed
eat the "grain" of grass, when it is there.

Are you really this stupid?

Jonathan Ball > wrote in message link.net>...
> Jennifer wrote:
>
> >>>It is not
> >>>natural for cows to eat grain,
> >>
> >>Grains are the seeds of mature grasses. Cattle and other ruminants eat
> >>grasses. It is natural for cows to eat some grains.
> >>
> >
> >
> > You could not be more wrong if you tried:
>
> You are wrong. Corn is a grass, and cattle do indeed
> eat the "grain" of grass, when it is there.
>
> Are you really this stupid?

If that were the case the ALL cattle would be labeled GRASS-FED!!!!

Are YOU really THAT stupid?

> Yep, vegans are notorious for ignoring their impact on animals and the
> environment. Afterall, all they follow is a simple rule for simple minds.
> They feel that focusing all their spew on what they think others are doing
> gives them some kind of free pass.

I never claimed to be a vegan.

Jennifer wrote:
>>>It is not
>>>natural for cows to eat grain,
>>
>>Grains are the seeds of mature grasses. Cattle and other ruminants eat
>>grasses. It is natural for cows to eat some grains.
>
> You could not be more wrong if you tried:

No, I am absolutely correct about grasses and grains: I said it's
natural for cattle to eat *some* grains. Mr Robbins makes a hasty
generalization about grains in bovine diets, and you stretch his remarks
even further. His own "source," Michael Pollan, refers to the effects of
a 100% corn-fed diet. Most finishing is NOT done on pure corn, or any
other grain, but a *combination* feed. Take a look at the following links.

During the first 100 to 150 lbs. of gain, cattle are especially
prone to acidosis resulting from poor feeding management,
excessive/erratic intake and too much corn or energy. Peaking in
gain too soon results in poor performance later in the feeding
period because of acidosis or from cattle finishing and maturing
too quickly.
http://www.feedlotmagazine.com/issue...n6pg36-37.html

Rations for finishing beef cattle are high energy rations
designed to put gain on as rapidly and efficiently as possible.
Beef cattle on finishing or full feed rations are typically
allowed to eat as much as they can consume. An animal on full
feed will eat approximately 85% of its ration as grain and the
remaining 15% as forage.
http://www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/liv.../baa01s04.html

Cattlemen are very well aware of acidosis. They seek to avoid it because
it costs them money.

I encourage you to contact your county extension agent or someone versed
in livestock production rather than turning to activist websites for
disinformation.

Jonathan Ball wrote:
>>>> It is not
>>>> natural for cows to eat grain,
>>>
>>> Grains are the seeds of mature grasses. Cattle and other ruminants
>>> eat grasses. It is natural for cows to eat some grains.
>>
>> You could not be more wrong if you tried:
>
> You are wrong. Corn is a grass, and cattle do indeed eat the "grain" of
> grass, when it is there.
>
> Are you really this stupid?

At the very least, she's so blinded by activist propaganda that she
refuses to accept the truth. I await her response about corn being a
grass before I decide if she really is that stupid.

Jonathan Ball > wrote in message link.net>...
> Jennifer wrote:
>
> >>Maybe you should re-read the entire article from Robbins' website again.
> >>
> >> In addition to consuming less energy, grass-fed beef has another
> >> environmental advantage - it is far less polluting. The animals'
> >> wastes drop onto the land, becoming nutrients for the next cycle
> >> of crops. In feedlots and other forms of factory farming,
> >> however, the animals' wastes build up in enormous quantities,
> >> becoming a staggering source of water and air pollution.
> >>
> >>What the hell do you think is used to nourish the soil in which your
> >>veggies and grains are grown? Manure, that's what.
> >>
> >>
> >>>Farm animals produce more waste than humans. The waste then
> >>>runs off into rivers, lakes and pollutes the
> >>>water supply.
> >>
> >>Can you document your claim as it relates to non-intensive grazed
> >>ruminant production?
> >>
> >
> >
> > Maybe you should keep reading the rest of the article. It clearly
> > states the that grass-fed beef greatly impacts the environment:
>
> How does the rice you eat "impact" the environment?

Many health food stores sell what is called "Upland rice". Upland
rice is a dry rice that does not require flooding or saturation of the
soil. Upland Rice produces no methane emmissions. And it is easy to
grow yourself. Many countries with drier climates than Asia like
Africa and South America grow Upland rice. So there is the potential
to eat an environmental friendly rice.

Jonathan Ball > wrote in message link.net>...
> Jennifer wrote:
>
> >>>It is not
> >>>natural for cows to eat grain,
> >>
> >>Grains are the seeds of mature grasses. Cattle and other ruminants eat
> >>grasses. It is natural for cows to eat some grains.
> >>
> >
> >
> > You could not be more wrong if you tried:
>
> You are wrong. Corn is a grass, and cattle do indeed
> eat the "grain" of grass, when it is there.
>
> Are you really this stupid?

Yes by definition corn is a grass:

corn: Any of numerous cultivated forms of a widely grown, usually tall
annual cereal grass (Zea mays) bearing grains or kernels on large
ears. b. The grains or kernels of this plant, used as food for humans
and livestock or for the extraction of an edible oil or starch. Also
called Indian corn, maize.

But the cows are not fed to grass of the corn, they are feed the grain
of the corn.

Please enlighten me after you so proudly proclaim that grass-fed beef
is better then what is difference in grass-fed beef and grain-fed
beef.

This was taken from a site that you have recommended in the past.

http://texasgrassfedbeef.com/grass_f...a_nutshell.htm

Cattle, like all other ruminants, developed on this Earth eating green
leafy plants, mostly grass. They ate virtually no grain. In fact,
there isn't a livestock species on this planet that developed eating
grain! This is important since scientists are reporting that many of
America's leading health problems are due to diets top heavy in
Omega-6 fatty acids versus Omega-3 fatty acids. Omega-6 fatty acids
come mainly from grains. Omega-3 fatty acids come mainly from green
leafy plants and some nuts.

"Jennifer" > wrote in message
om...
> > Yep, vegans are notorious for ignoring their impact on animals and the
> > environment. Afterall, all they follow is a simple rule for simple
minds.
> > They feel that focusing all their spew on what they think others are
doing
> > gives them some kind of free pass.
>
> I never claimed to be a vegan.
=====================
You must be a wanna be then, you are as stupid as any of them here on
usenet.

Again, why do you automatically limit your choices if helping animals and
the environemnt is any part of your supposed goal?




How about these, when are you going to comment?


Here are some sites, with info on specific areas and
pesticides. Animals die.
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm
http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm
http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...feFactSheet.pd
f
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/


http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm
http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html
http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html
http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.htm




http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html
http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm


Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either,
here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton.
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/


To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field,
here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there
can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field.
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs
/natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8
http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf
http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html


To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and
maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple
dealing with power and communications.
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html