From:
http://www.drweil.com/app/cda/drw_cd...stionId=312211

--------------------------------
Today's Question
Given that soy products could stimulate estrogen-sensitive cells in
the body, are men at any risk of developing effects of estrogen excess
(like feminization) if these foods constitute a significant part of
their diet?

-- Jon Awerbuck

Today's Answer
(Published 11/10/2003)

When you consider that millions of men in China, Japan and other Asian
countries have had soy foods in their daily diets from earliest
childhood, you can appreciate that the plant estrogens they contain
have no discernible effect on male sexual development, and no
feminizing effects at all. Given the huge populations of Asian
countries there's no reason to think that soy affects male fertility,
either.

However, concerns in the Western world about the effects on boys and
men from eating soy foods have been raised repeatedly and addressed in
numerous laboratory and population studies. Researchers at the
University of Pennsylvania surveyed men and women who, as babies, were
given soy- based formulas to see if any of them had sexual, fertility
or hormonal problems; they were then compared to a matched group
raised on cow's milk formula. The only discrepancies noted were some
minor menstrual complaints among the women (their periods lasted
one-third of a day longer and they reported slightly more menstrual
pain). Results were published in the August 15, 2001, issue of the
Journal of the American Medical Association.

In March 2002 the Journal of Nutrition published results of a survey
of men consuming soy foods or supplements containing 40-70 milligrams
of isoflavones (the phytogenic components). None of the studies showed
that consuming soy had any effects on reproductive hormones or semen
quality, both changes that you might expect to see before any overt
"feminization" would occur.

Including soy foods in your diet may enhance your health and help
protect against heart disease and prostate cancer. I recommend two
servings per day of such soy foods as tofu, tempeh (soy protein), soy
milk or edamame. That would add up to about 40 milligrams of
isoflavones, less than the amount consumed in the traditional Asian
diet. The earlier in life one begins to consume soy, the greater the
protection against breast and prostate cancer seems to be.

Andrew Weil, MD

Steve wrote:
> From:
> http://www.drweil.com/app/cda/drw_cd...stionId=312211
>
> --------------------------------
> Today's Question
> Given that soy products could stimulate estrogen-sensitive cells in
> the body, are men at any risk of developing effects of estrogen excess
> (like feminization) if these foods constitute a significant part of
> their diet?
>
> -- Jon Awerbuck
>
> Today's Answer
> (Published 11/10/2003)
>
> When you consider that millions of men in China, Japan and other Asian
> countries have had soy foods in their daily diets from earliest
> childhood, you can appreciate that the plant estrogens they contain
> have no discernible effect on male sexual development, and no
> feminizing effects at all. Given the huge populations of Asian
> countries there's no reason to think that soy affects male fertility,
> either.

I disagree because most soy consumed in Asian culture is in the form of
soy sauce and fermented products. This may have consequences as well --
Asians are at higher risk for esophagal and stomach cancers than are
Westerners.

Most soy consumed in the West is in tofu, TVP, and similar products --
even whole soybeans which is not a typical form of consumption in the
Asian diet (edamame is only *occasionally* eaten). The amount of soy
does make a difference, but so does the *form*.

> However, concerns in the Western world about the effects on boys and
> men from eating soy foods have been raised repeatedly and addressed in
> numerous laboratory and population studies. Researchers at the
> University of Pennsylvania surveyed men and women who, as babies, were
> given soy- based formulas to see if any of them had sexual, fertility
> or hormonal problems; they were then compared to a matched group
> raised on cow's milk formula. The only discrepancies noted were some
> minor menstrual complaints among the women (their periods lasted
> one-third of a day longer and they reported slightly more menstrual
> pain). Results were published in the August 15, 2001, issue of the
> Journal of the American Medical Association.
>
> In March 2002 the Journal of Nutrition published results of a survey
> of men consuming soy foods or supplements containing 40-70 milligrams
> of isoflavones (the phytogenic components). None of the studies showed
> that consuming soy had any effects on reproductive hormones or semen
> quality, both changes that you might expect to see before any overt
> "feminization" would occur.

This survey did not address the issue of soy supplementation over a long
time period. Other studies have had some pretty damning results.

Rat pups, exposed to high doses of the plant estrogen coumestrol
(found in sunflower seeds and oil and alfalfa sprouts) through
their mother's milk, suffered permanent reproductive problems:
female pups when grown did not ovulate, and males had altered
mounting behavior and fewer ejaculations (2).
[Whitten, P., C. Lewis and F. Naftolin. 1993. A Phytoestrogen
diet induces the premature anovulatory syndrome in lactationally
exposed female rats. Biology of Reproduction 49:1117-21.]

Neonatal and immature rats exposed to coumestrol experienced
estrogen-related responses, such as premature estrous cycles.
Coumestrol also interrupted ovarian cycles in adult female rats
(3).
[Barrett, J. 1996. Phytoestrogens: Friends or Foes?
Environmental Health Perspectives 104:478-82.]

Newborn rats exposed to the phytoestrogen genistein (a compound
found in soy products), experienced altered hormone secretions
and the onset of puberty may have been delayed because female
rats were exposed to the compound as fetuses (3).
[Ibid.]

“In males, levels of 17B-estradiol and testosterone were not
affected, but levels of 3a, 17B- androstanediol glucuronide (a
metabolite of dihydrotestosterone) and dehydroepiandrosterone
sulfate were decreased by 13% and 14%, respectively, after 2-4
weeks of daily soya ingestion.”
[Supported by USPHS CA56273, CA65628, CA45181, John Sealy
Memorial Endowment Fund for Biomedical Research, American
Institute for Cancer Research grant 95B119, and NIH NCRR GCRC
grant M01 RR00073]

All above lifted from:
http://www.cheapbodybuildingsuppleme...estrogen.shtml

Additionally, see:
http://www.t-mag.com/articles/185soy.html
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/satter6.htm

> Including soy foods in your diet may enhance your health and help
> protect against heart disease and prostate cancer.

Exercise combined with a diet rich in fresh produce and whole grains
achieves the same goal without adding plant-based estrogens into the diet.

> I recommend two
> servings per day of such soy foods as tofu, tempeh (soy protein), soy
> milk or edamame. That would add up to about 40 milligrams of
> isoflavones, less than the amount consumed in the traditional Asian
> diet.

That's probably okay for most people, especially most women, but Dr
Weil's recommendation is unacceptable for children whose bodies are
still developing; this is especially true with our increasing knowledge
of what soy does to young males in the laboratory. I think as with any
other food, moderation is called for regardless of health claims. Too
much of anything can have bad effects.

> The earlier in life one begins to consume soy, the greater the
> protection against breast and prostate cancer seems to be.

I don't think that's been demonstrated by the science.

> Andrew Weil, MD

http://www.forbes.com/2003/05/15/cx_pp_0515weil.html
http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/weil.html
http://www.geocities.com/healthbase/weil_bmj.html
Etc.

"Steve" > wrote in message
m...
> From:
>
http://www.drweil.com/app/cda/drw_cd...stionId=312211
>
> --------------------------------
> Today's Question
> Given that soy products could stimulate estrogen-sensitive cells in
> the body, are men at any risk of developing effects of estrogen excess
> (like feminization) if these foods constitute a significant part of
> their diet?
>
> -- Jon Awerbuck
>
> Today's Answer
> (Published 11/10/2003)
>
> When you consider that millions of men in China, Japan and other Asian
> countries have had soy foods in their daily diets from earliest
> childhood, you can appreciate that the plant estrogens they contain
> have no discernible effect on male sexual development, and no
> feminizing effects at all. Given the huge populations of Asian
> countries there's no reason to think that soy affects male fertility,
> either.
>
> However, concerns in the Western world about the effects on boys and
> men from eating soy foods have been raised repeatedly and addressed in
> numerous laboratory and population studies. Researchers at the
> University of Pennsylvania surveyed men and women who, as babies, were
> given soy- based formulas to see if any of them had sexual, fertility
> or hormonal problems; they were then compared to a matched group
> raised on cow's milk formula. The only discrepancies noted were some
> minor menstrual complaints among the women (their periods lasted
> one-third of a day longer and they reported slightly more menstrual
> pain). Results were published in the August 15, 2001, issue of the
> Journal of the American Medical Association.
>
> In March 2002 the Journal of Nutrition published results of a survey
> of men consuming soy foods or supplements containing 40-70 milligrams
> of isoflavones (the phytogenic components). None of the studies showed
> that consuming soy had any effects on reproductive hormones or semen
> quality, both changes that you might expect to see before any overt
> "feminization" would occur.
>
> Including soy foods in your diet may enhance your health and help
> protect against heart disease and prostate cancer. I recommend two
> servings per day of such soy foods as tofu, tempeh (soy protein), soy
> milk or edamame. That would add up to about 40 milligrams of
> isoflavones, less than the amount consumed in the traditional Asian
> diet. The earlier in life one begins to consume soy, the greater the
> protection against breast and prostate cancer seems to be.
>
> Andrew Weil, MD
============================
Nope. Check your lys at the door, please...

"To dispose of the first myth: soy is not extensively used as a "base" or a
large part of traditional diets. Throughout Asia, soy is mainly used in a
fermented form as a seasoning - shoyu, tamari, miso."

"The amount of phytoestrogens that are in a day's worth of soy infant
formula equals five birth control pills."
http://www.soil-health.org.nz/pastis...yaug02/soy.htm


"Actually, consumption of soy in traditional Asian diets is low. A 1975
report lists soyfoods as minor sources of protein in Japan and China.1 Major
sources of protein listed were meat including organ meats, poultry, fish and
eggs. Average isoflavone consumption in Asian diets ranges from 3-28 mg/day,
"
http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/dangersisoflavones.html

Better go back to check some of the studies done as long ago as the '50s, eh
doc?
Or, are you just a shill for Monsanto?



"Vegetarians who consume tofu and bean curd as a substitute for meat and
dairy products risk severe mineral deficiencies. The results of calcium,
magnesium and iron deficiency are well known, those of zinc are less so.
Zinc is called the intelligence mineral because it is needed for optimal
development and functioning of the brain and nervous system."


I knew there was a reason our resident vegans were so ignorant and full of
lys and delusions...

"rick etter" > wrote in message >...
> "Vegetarians who consume tofu and bean curd as a substitute for meat and
> dairy products risk severe mineral deficiencies. The results of calcium,
> magnesium and iron deficiency are well known, those of zinc are less so.
> Zinc is called the intelligence mineral because it is needed for optimal
> development and functioning of the brain and nervous system."
>
>
> I knew there was a reason our resident vegans were so ignorant and full of
> lys and delusions...

I think pumpkin seeds are a good source of zinc. Greens, broccoli,
almonds, and dried legumes are good sources of calcium. Spinach, nuts,
seeds, and whole grains provide magnesium. Watermelon, Spinach,
Asparagus, Enriched and whole Grain Breads, Strawberries, Raisins,
Bananas, Apple Sauce, Apple Juice and Peanut Butter are good sources
of iron.


-Rubystars

"Rubystars" > wrote in message
om...
> "rick etter" > wrote in message
>...
> > "Vegetarians who consume tofu and bean curd as a substitute for meat and
> > dairy products risk severe mineral deficiencies. The results of calcium,
> > magnesium and iron deficiency are well known, those of zinc are less so.
> > Zinc is called the intelligence mineral because it is needed for optimal
> > development and functioning of the brain and nervous system."
> >
> >
> > I knew there was a reason our resident vegans were so ignorant and full
of
> > lys and delusions...
>
> I think pumpkin seeds are a good source of zinc.
==================
Did you read the links? Sure, many foods are a good 'source' of zinc, the
problem is that soy can be an inhibitor, meaning that your body does not
absorb the zinc available. You can eat an acceptable amount, but your body
won't use it.


Greens, broccoli,
> almonds, and dried legumes are good sources of calcium. Spinach, nuts,
> seeds, and whole grains provide magnesium. Watermelon, Spinach,
> Asparagus, Enriched and whole Grain Breads, Strawberries, Raisins,
> Bananas, Apple Sauce, Apple Juice and Peanut Butter are good sources
> of iron.
>
>
> -Rubystars