Fried Dill Pickles

8 dill pickles
1 / 2 cup flour
1 / 4 cup beer
1 1/4 tbsp. Paprika
1 1/4 tbsp. Cayenne pepper
1 1/4 tbsp. Black pepper
1/2 tsp. salt
2 tsp. garlic salt
3 dashes Tabasco sauce
oil for deep frying

Cut the dill pickles in slices as thick as a silver dollar. Mix
together the remaining ingredients to form the batter. Dip the pickles
in the batter and quickly fry in the hot oil (375F) until pickles
float to the top, about 4 minutes.

I've seen pics of some of the readers on this group. They need
healthier, low-fat recipes. Please stop posting high-fat, sugary
recipes. Your version of veganism is as unhealthy as the diets you abhor.

MrFalafel wrote:
> Fried Dill Pickles

Sounds great... I love dill pickles.

usual suspect > wrote in message > ...
> I've seen pics of some of the readers on this group. They need
> healthier, low-fat recipes. Please stop posting high-fat, sugary
> recipes. Your version of veganism is as unhealthy as the diets you abhor.

I could be wrong about this Usual, but I think a lot of the recipes Mr
Falafel posts are intended to show that a vegan diet can include rich
and delicious meals. It kind of dispels the whole "bean sprouts and
water" myth.

Most of the vegans here probably already have "basic" and "Every day"
recipes, though I've tried to post some of those and I've seen other
people do it too.

-Rubystars

Rubystars wrote:
>>I've seen pics of some of the readers on this group. They need
>>healthier, low-fat recipes. Please stop posting high-fat, sugary
>>recipes. Your version of veganism is as unhealthy as the diets you abhor.
>
> I could be wrong about this Usual, but I think a lot of the recipes Mr
> Falafel posts are intended to show that a vegan diet can include rich
> and delicious meals.

What's rich or nutritious about fried pickles? :-)

> It kind of dispels the whole "bean sprouts and
> water" myth.

It also dispels the "healthier-than-meat" myth.

<snip>

"Adam D. Moss" > wrote in message >...
> MrFalafel wrote:
> > Fried Dill Pickles
>
> Sounds great... I love dill pickles.

The dill pickle chips sold at Asda are pretty good! It's nice to start
seeing proper pickles in the UK.

usual suspect > wrote in message > ...



> What's rich or nutritious about fried pickles? :-)

(sorry if this goes up twice, the first time I tried to send it, it
didn't seem to work.)

I don't know if fried pickles are "delicious" or not because I haven't
tried them, but I was talking more about the recipes in general.

> It also dispels the "healthier-than-meat" myth.

At least none of the recipes have any cholesterol (which only comes in
animal products), but you're right that fried and sugary food
generally isn't healthy.


-Rubystars

Rubystars wrote:
>>What's rich or nutritious about fried pickles? :-)
>
> (sorry if this goes up twice, the first time I tried to send it, it
> didn't seem to work.)

Didn't seem to work on my end, either. Only got it once. ;-)

> I don't know if fried pickles are "delicious" or not because I haven't
> tried them, but I was talking more about the recipes in general.

I meant delicious, sorry.

>>It also dispels the "healthier-than-meat" myth.
>
> At least none of the recipes have any cholesterol (which only comes in
> animal products), but you're right that fried and sugary food
> generally isn't healthy.

Cholesterol from food doesn't have a direct link to *serum* cholesterol
levels. The more important culprits in raising serum LDL (the bad
cholesterol) are saturated fats and transfats, regardless of their source.

It's true that much of the fat from animal-based foods is saturated.
Many vegetable oils and related products are also saturated naturally or
artificially (hydrogenation). Many of the recipes offered on afv call
for margarine, which usually contains saturated fats and/or transfats.
This is one of my chief complaints. It makes no difference if one avoids
the cholesterol found in animal products if one's diet *still* contains
saturated fats. Those sat-fats and trans-fats will elevate one's
cholesterol levels whether one eats animal foods or not.

Unsaturated fats, be they from vegetable oils like olive or canola or
from animal fats like the healthy ones found in oily fish like salmon,
elevate HDL (good cholesterol) which helps transport and reduce LDL.
Fiber is also beneficial in controlling LDL levels. The distinction on
controlling cholesterol, specifically LDL, should be on dietary fats,
not on dietary cholesterol.

In general, saturated fats tend to raise the serum-cholesterol
level, while unsaturated fats and fiber tend to lower the
serum-cholesterol level. Therefore, it is prudent to lower one’s
intake of saturated fat, use your fat allowance primarily for
unsaturated fats, and eat more high-fiber foods. Foods which
contain saturated fat, unsaturated fat, or fiber may or may not
contain cholesterol.
http://www.unm.edu/~shc1/cholesterol.html

Also, meat DOES contain many vitamins and minerals, some of which are
deficient or missing in a veg-n diet. Eating fish and lean cuts is much
healthier than consuming foods with hydrogenated oils or naturally
saturated vegetable oils.

I haven't even gotten to the role simple carbohydrates (especially in
connection with fats!) play in elevating serum triglyceride levels. Many
of the afv recipes are abysmally unhealthy, and should be eaten only on
rare, special occasions.

usual suspect > wrote in message > ...
<snip>
> It's true that much of the fat from animal-based foods is saturated.
> Many vegetable oils and related products are also saturated naturally or
> artificially (hydrogenation). Many of the recipes offered on afv call
> for margarine, which usually contains saturated fats and/or transfats.

I like to use a margarine called Smart Balance. (It's not vegan, if
anyone is reading this and wondering, but it tastes good and isn't
hydrogenated.)

> This is one of my chief complaints. It makes no difference if one avoids
> the cholesterol found in animal products if one's diet *still* contains
> saturated fats. Those sat-fats and trans-fats will elevate one's
> cholesterol levels whether one eats animal foods or not.

Thanks for the info! I knew the "Bad fats" were bad for people but I
wasn't sure what they did, exactly.

> Unsaturated fats, be they from vegetable oils like olive or canola or
> from animal fats like the healthy ones found in oily fish like salmon,
> elevate HDL (good cholesterol) which helps transport and reduce LDL.
> Fiber is also beneficial in controlling LDL levels. The distinction on
> controlling cholesterol, specifically LDL, should be on dietary fats,
> not on dietary cholesterol.

Both probably play their part though, even if one is more important
than the other.

<snip>
> Also, meat DOES contain many vitamins and minerals, some of which are
> deficient or missing in a veg-n diet. Eating fish and lean cuts is much
> healthier than consuming foods with hydrogenated oils or naturally
> saturated vegetable oils.

I think there's probably ways to get the vitamins and minerals in a
vegan diet but I can understand why it would be more of a challenge to
get some of them.

I always found it strange that some of the most nutritious meats as
far as some of the vitamins and minerals go, the organ meats, like
liver, are packed full of cholesterol and other stuff that's not so
good. But I do know that lean meats can be highly nutritious as well.

> I haven't even gotten to the role simple carbohydrates (especially in
> connection with fats!) play in elevating serum triglyceride levels. Many
> of the afv recipes are abysmally unhealthy, and should be eaten only on
> rare, special occasions.

Maybe that's what they're meant for. That's kind of what I always
viewed them as. Just a way to show a vegan diet doesn't necessarily
exclude "Everything that tastes good."

I found some books at the local library that had some delicious
looking recipes that were a lot healthier, but most of what I see here
does tend to be more holiday food, or special treat food. Those are
important too! Especially if they have guests over who might think if
they eat over at this person's house that they'll end up eatting like
rabbits all the time.

-Rubystars

Rubystars wrote:
<snip>
>>This is one of my chief complaints. It makes no difference if one avoids
>>the cholesterol found in animal products if one's diet *still* contains
>>saturated fats. Those sat-fats and trans-fats will elevate one's
>>cholesterol levels whether one eats animal foods or not.
>
> Thanks for the info! I knew the "Bad fats" were bad for people but I
> wasn't sure what they did, exactly.

You're welcome.

>>Unsaturated fats, be they from vegetable oils like olive or canola or
>>from animal fats like the healthy ones found in oily fish like salmon,
>>elevate HDL (good cholesterol) which helps transport and reduce LDL.
>>Fiber is also beneficial in controlling LDL levels. The distinction on
>>controlling cholesterol, specifically LDL, should be on dietary fats,
>>not on dietary cholesterol.
>
> Both probably play their part though, even if one is more important
> than the other.

Actually, the overwhelming majority of cholesterol in your body is
endogenous -- meaning, it's made within your own body. Dietary
cholesterol in and of itself is meaningless for all but extreme cases of
hypercholesterolemia. Consider that fish and seafood are quite high in
cholesterol, yet allowed for most heart patients and people with
hypercholesterolemia. The omega-3 fatty acids and other fats (especially
in cold water fish) are very beneficial. Fish has no impact on serum LDL
levels and raises HDL levels. Research has also led scientists to
reconsider eggs (and their yolks) and the issue of serum cholesterol.

The link, though, between saturated fat consumption and serum LDL is
very well documented. It applies as much to vegetarians as meat eaters.
It makes no difference if the saturation is natural or from
hydrogenation (transfats), but research does show that transfats cause
LDL to rise more sharply than animal fats. This is because not all
animal fats are saturated; and the ones that aren't saturated are
actually pretty good for you. Hydrogenation is just plain unhealthy, so
you should avoid anything that has hydrogenated (even partially) oils if
you want to keep your LDL controllable.

A couple more points about specific meats and fats. Grass-fed beef has
less saturated fat than grain-fed. Grass-fed also is high in omega-3
FAs. So is wild game. Like fish, consumption of these foods is healthy
enough even for heart patients.

> <snip>
>
>>Also, meat DOES contain many vitamins and minerals, some of which are
>>deficient or missing in a veg-n diet. Eating fish and lean cuts is much
>>healthier than consuming foods with hydrogenated oils or naturally
>>saturated vegetable oils.
>
> I think there's probably ways to get the vitamins and minerals in a
> vegan diet but I can understand why it would be more of a challenge to
> get some of them.

As one person of questionable authority (nice way of saying that he's a
complete kook) suggested, not washing produce and eating it raw will
provide some B12. Personally, I'd prefer to get my B12 from another
source than bird, animal, or insect droppings.

> I always found it strange that some of the most nutritious meats as
> far as some of the vitamins and minerals go, the organ meats, like
> liver, are packed full of cholesterol and other stuff that's not so
> good. But I do know that lean meats can be highly nutritious as well.

Ugh. Dietary cholesterol isn't so much an issue as saturated fat. Organ
meats are high in fat, but most people who eat them usually eat them in
moderation anyway. Consider that 100 grams (~1/4 lb) of raw beef liver
contains less than 4 grams of fat, and 1.5 grams are saturated. About
25% of the calories are from fat -- of course, that rises in relation to
the amount of oil in which it's cooked. It contains 1312.9% of a
female's RDA of Vitamin A, 3459.5% of the same's B12, 45.5% of Iron,
152.4% of B5 (pantothenic acid), and all essential amino acids. The
cholesterol is over 100% of a daily limit, but the saturated fat is
below 10% for men and women for recommended daily limit.

Rest of liver data: http://tinyurl.com/ugx7

>>I haven't even gotten to the role simple carbohydrates (especially in
>>connection with fats!) play in elevating serum triglyceride levels. Many
>>of the afv recipes are abysmally unhealthy, and should be eaten only on
>>rare, special occasions.
>
> Maybe that's what they're meant for. That's kind of what I always
> viewed them as. Just a way to show a vegan diet doesn't necessarily
> exclude "Everything that tastes good."

If that's truly the case, healthy and tasty recipes would be nice to see
as well to show that vegans don't only live it up on holidays and such.

> I found some books at the local library that had some delicious
> looking recipes that were a lot healthier, but most of what I see here
> does tend to be more holiday food, or special treat food. Those are
> important too! Especially if they have guests over who might think if
> they eat over at this person's house that they'll end up eatting like
> rabbits all the time.

If they're serving deep fried and sugary vegan foods, they'd be alot
healthier eating rabbits than eating LIKE them:

Raw wild rabbit
Mean value per 100.00 grams edible part; 0.0% refuse
Portions: 1 OZ = 28.00 gm, 1 LB = 453.60 gm
19.0% Cals from fat, 81.0% Cals from protein, 0.0% Cals from carbs.

Male Female
Name Unit Amount %RDA %RDA
Food energy KCal: 114.000 3.9% 5.2%
Protein Gms : 21.790 34.6% 43.6%
Total lipid (fat) Gms : 2.320 2.4% 3.2%
Carbohydrate, by diff. Gms : 0.000 0.0% 0.0%
Total saturated fat Gms : 0.690 2.1% 2.8%

rest of data: http://tinyurl.com/ugxf

usual suspect > wrote in message > ...
<snip>
> The link, though, between saturated fat consumption and serum LDL is
> very well documented. It applies as much to vegetarians as meat eaters.
> It makes no difference if the saturation is natural or from
> hydrogenation (transfats), but research does show that transfats cause
> LDL to rise more sharply than animal fats. This is because not all
> animal fats are saturated; and the ones that aren't saturated are
> actually pretty good for you.

Yeah, salmon is my favorite meat. I'm glad that it's so good for
people.

Smoked salmon is so good. Raw salmon sushi has a smooth almost
buttery flavor (though I heard it has a high risk of parasites, like
anisakiasis) Salmon cakes are fried so they're probably not all that
healthy but they sure do taste good.

>Hydrogenation is just plain unhealthy, so
> you should avoid anything that has hydrogenated (even partially) oils if
> you want to keep your LDL controllable.

Yeah the bad thing about that is, it's hard to find any crackers that
don't have hydrogenated oil in them. I wish that was different. I wish
peanut butter didn't have hydrogenated oil either. I've been trying to
avoid hydrogenated oils though as much as I can.

> A couple more points about specific meats and fats. Grass-fed beef has
> less saturated fat than grain-fed. Grass-fed also is high in omega-3
> FAs. So is wild game. Like fish, consumption of these foods is healthy
> enough even for heart patients.

People have to make sure wild game is well cooked though because of
the risk of trichina.

<snip>
> As one person of questionable authority (nice way of saying that he's a
> complete kook) suggested, not washing produce and eating it raw will
> provide some B12. Personally, I'd prefer to get my B12 from another
> source than bird, animal, or insect droppings.

I always wash my produce really well just in case "natural fertilizer"
was used. I think they can get B12 from fortified soy milk and cereals
and Red Star nutritional yeast, as well as supplements.

I think vegetarians have a big advantage over vegans in this
particular issue though, because they can eat eggs and drink milk,
which will help them a lot as far as getting different nutrients.

<snip>

Every year at thanksgiving and Christmas I have some cornbread
stuffing which has giblets in it. Turkey hearts are part of that. I
wonder if that does more harm than good? I don't expect that to be
healthy but it sure does taste good.

I also like chicken livers sometimes.

Of course, I don't eat those foods except every once in a while. I
think the last time I ate any organ meats was last Christmas in the
stuffing.

> If that's truly the case, healthy and tasty recipes would be nice to see
> as well to show that vegans don't only live it up on holidays and such.

I'd personally like to see more healthy recipes because I'm trying to
lose weight and I want to be healthier. That's the main reason I came
to this group to begin with, because I was looking for some very low
fat, high nutrient recipes. It didn't turn out that way directly from
the group, but some of the links people have put up have helped me
find some.

I enjoy eating vegan and vegetarian dishes when I can find a good
recipe.


> If they're serving deep fried and sugary vegan foods, they'd be alot
> healthier eating rabbits than eating LIKE them:

I don't think I'd eat a rabbit unless I needed to. They're too cute to
eat.

-Rubystars

Rubystars wrote:
> Yeah, salmon is my favorite meat. I'm glad that it's so good for
> people.
>
> Smoked salmon is so good. Raw salmon sushi has a smooth almost
> buttery flavor (though I heard it has a high risk of parasites, like
> anisakiasis) Salmon cakes are fried so they're probably not all that
> healthy but they sure do taste good.

The risks are minimal, and really apply to farmed salmon. The dangers of
parasites (ciguatera) from reef fish (barracuda, etc.) are much, much
more significant.

>>Hydrogenation is just plain unhealthy, so
>>you should avoid anything that has hydrogenated (even partially) oils if
>>you want to keep your LDL controllable.
>
> Yeah the bad thing about that is, it's hard to find any crackers that
> don't have hydrogenated oil in them. I wish that was different.

Try the Nature's Harvest at the HEB on Westheimer (near Kirkwood), Whole
Foods, Sandy's (Katy Freeway), or Central Market. Brands like Hain's
have no hydrogenated oils. You might also like Ak-Mak crackers (really
flat bread) which have *some* butter, but not enough to be unhealthy.

> I wish
> peanut butter didn't have hydrogenated oil either. I've been trying to
> avoid hydrogenated oils though as much as I can.

Get the natural peanut butter. Even normal HEB carries some natural
peanut butters. Yeah, you have to stir the oil (or drain it out!) to
smoothen it, but that's a small price to pay. Oh yeah, the natural
peanut butters won't have any sugar added, either.

>>A couple more points about specific meats and fats. Grass-fed beef has
>>less saturated fat than grain-fed. Grass-fed also is high in omega-3
>>FAs. So is wild game. Like fish, consumption of these foods is healthy
>>enough even for heart patients.
>
> People have to make sure wild game is well cooked though because of
> the risk of trichina.

Not a big issue for most people -- cook to same internal temperature as
beef and chicken (165F).

> I always wash my produce really well just in case "natural fertilizer"
> was used. I think they can get B12 from fortified soy milk and cereals
> and Red Star nutritional yeast, as well as supplements.
>
> I think vegetarians have a big advantage over vegans in this
> particular issue though, because they can eat eggs and drink milk,
> which will help them a lot as far as getting different nutrients.

I agree.

> Every year at thanksgiving and Christmas I have some cornbread
> stuffing which has giblets in it. Turkey hearts are part of that. I
> wonder if that does more harm than good? I don't expect that to be
> healthy but it sure does taste good.

If you don't eat too much of it, it's probably fine. Most people have a
lot more cornbread than giblets, so I wouldn't worry.

> I also like chicken livers sometimes.

My favorite use for chicken livers was for catfish bait.

> Of course, I don't eat those foods except every once in a while. I
> think the last time I ate any organ meats was last Christmas in the
> stuffing.

Once in a while, no problem. Everything in moderation...

> I'd personally like to see more healthy recipes because I'm trying to
> lose weight and I want to be healthier. That's the main reason I came
> to this group to begin with, because I was looking for some very low
> fat, high nutrient recipes. It didn't turn out that way directly from
> the group, but some of the links people have put up have helped me
> find some.

That's good, and I applaud your efforts to be healthy. I know it can be
difficult with the presence of sugar and fat and other stuff in the
"most available" foods, but you *can* wean yourself and find healthier
alternatives if you look.

<snip>
>>If they're serving deep fried and sugary vegan foods, they'd be alot
>>healthier eating rabbits than eating LIKE them:
>
> I don't think I'd eat a rabbit unless I needed to. They're too cute to
> eat.

They're not so cute when they're dead and skinned. Looks like chicken.
Tastes like chicken, too.
http://tinyurl.com/ummj

usual suspect > wrote in message >. ..
> Rubystars wrote:
> The risks are minimal, and really apply to farmed salmon. The dangers of
> parasites (ciguatera) from reef fish (barracuda, etc.) are much, much
> more significant.

I thought farmed fish was safer (as long as they aren't fed raw fish
bits themselves).

> Try the Nature's Harvest at the HEB on Westheimer (near Kirkwood), Whole
> Foods, Sandy's (Katy Freeway), or Central Market. Brands like Hain's
> have no hydrogenated oils. You might also like Ak-Mak crackers (really
> flat bread) which have *some* butter, but not enough to be unhealthy.

That's good that there are crackers that don't have it.

> Get the natural peanut butter. Even normal HEB carries some natural
> peanut butters. Yeah, you have to stir the oil (or drain it out!) to
> smoothen it, but that's a small price to pay. Oh yeah, the natural
> peanut butters won't have any sugar added, either.

I got this peanut butter that was supposed to be healthy one time and
it tasted awful. It had no added salt or sugar and it was so bad that
I couldn't finish the container. There may be other, better brands
though.

<snip>
>
> If you don't eat too much of it, it's probably fine. Most people have a
> lot more cornbread than giblets, so I wouldn't worry.

Yeah there's cornbread, bread, eggs, giblets, celery, and probably a
couple other things in it.

> My favorite use for chicken livers was for catfish bait.

They're great as catfish bait! My dad uses them that way all the time.

<snip>
> That's good, and I applaud your efforts to be healthy. I know it can be
> difficult with the presence of sugar and fat and other stuff in the
> "most available" foods, but you *can* wean yourself and find healthier
> alternatives if you look.

Yeah, I've gotten used to a lot of things I used to hate. Skim milk
and artificial sweetener are two of them. I still think 2% milk and
sugar taste better though, but I'm able to tolerate the other two. I
don't think I could ever get used to that peanut butter I tried before
though.

-Rubystars

While frolicking around in alt.food.vegan, Rubystars of
http://groups.google.com said:

>I think vegetarians have a big advantage over vegans in this
>particular issue though, because they can eat eggs and drink milk,
>which will help them a lot as far as getting different nutrients.
>
I'm lactose intolerant, so dairy products would make me ill. I don't
think that anyone would disagree that this makes it a good idea for me
to avoid dairy products, and I'm not going to give up on my Marmite
sandwiches, so margarine is my only choice.

As long as I'm not medically overweight, I don't see what makes that
other people's business. Cosmetically, I would look better a bit
lighter, but medically speaking I'm within the range of normal weight,
so people should really mind their own business with that.
--
Nikitta a.a. #1759 Apatriot(No, not apricot)#18
ICQ# 251532856
Unreferenced footnotes: http://www.nut.house.cx/cgi-bin/nemwiki.pl?ISFN
"It's a beer, not a gymnastics event!" Fred Stone (a.a)

Rubystars wrote:
<snip>
>>Get the natural peanut butter. Even normal HEB carries some natural
>>peanut butters. Yeah, you have to stir the oil (or drain it out!) to
>>smoothen it, but that's a small price to pay. Oh yeah, the natural
>>peanut butters won't have any sugar added, either.
>
> I got this peanut butter that was supposed to be healthy one time and
> it tasted awful. It had no added salt or sugar and it was so bad that
> I couldn't finish the container. There may be other, better brands
> though.

I hate to bear bad tidings, but natural peanut butter's going to lack
certain acquired impressions of how peanut butter is *supposed* to
taste. I do recommend you try some of the bulk peanut butter at Whole
Foods since they keep fresh stock. They also have cashew and almond
butters in bulk, which you may like better than natural peanut butter.
Otherwise, you can add a little salt and just enough sweetener to the
stuff you don't like and see if that helps.

<snip>
> Yeah, I've gotten used to a lot of things I used to hate. Skim milk
> and artificial sweetener are two of them.

I don't think artificial sweeteners are healthy, but I know people often
resort to using them in place of sugar (which can be every bit as
unhealthy). It takes a while to get over sweet cravings, but it can be done.

> I still think 2% milk and
> sugar taste better though, but I'm able to tolerate the other two. I
> don't think I could ever get used to that peanut butter I tried before
> though.

LOL. If you're used to Skippy and Jif, the natural stuff can be a let
down. It's actually pretty good, though, once you get used to it and/or
get over the need to sweeten/salt certain foods. Almond and cashew
butters may be more palatable to you, too. They certainly have been for
me (I eat too much of the stuff).

Moo wrote:
> As long as I'm not medically overweight, I don't see what makes that
> other people's business.

This is a major reason why you're not married yet. Want the other ones?

> Cosmetically, I would look better a bit lighter,

Understatement. Try a lot lighter and a makeover. This is how attractive
Danish women can be when they take good care of themselves:
http://www.geocities.com/mphillp001/lis.html

> but medically speaking I'm within the range of normal weight,

How much do you weigh now?

> so people should really mind their own business with that.

Was it an issue before you raised it?

MEow > wrote in message >. ..
> While frolicking around in alt.food.vegan, Rubystars of
> http://groups.google.com said:
>
> >I think vegetarians have a big advantage over vegans in this
> >particular issue though, because they can eat eggs and drink milk,
> >which will help them a lot as far as getting different nutrients.
> >
> I'm lactose intolerant, so dairy products would make me ill. I don't
> think that anyone would disagree that this makes it a good idea for me
> to avoid dairy products, and I'm not going to give up on my Marmite
> sandwiches, so margarine is my only choice.

It's good that there are so many options for people who are lactose
intolerant now, like soy milk and rice milk, and margarine instead of
butter, etc.

>
> As long as I'm not medically overweight, I don't see what makes that
> other people's business. Cosmetically, I would look better a bit
> lighter, but medically speaking I'm within the range of normal weight,
> so people should really mind their own business with that.

I'm overweight right now. I'm not telling anyone what to eat or not
eat, and I would resent anyone trying to dictate to me what I should
eat or not eat. I just think that milk and eggs are a convenient way
to get some nutrients, and that's all I was saying.

I want people to follow their principles and meet their own needs.

-Rubystars

"usual suspect" > wrote in message
.. .
> I've seen pics of some of the readers on this group. They need
> healthier, low-fat recipes. Please stop posting high-fat, sugary
> recipes. Your version of veganism is as unhealthy as the diets you abhor.

We are all adults and can decide for ourselves whether a recipe is unhealthy
or not. I treat myself to "unhealthy" recipes now and again. A good diet
is a varied diet and food should be fun. I have eaten a balanced, varied
diet all my adult life. Mr F is one of the few posters I have any time for
on this ng.

Deb


>
>

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:15:02 GMT, usual suspect wrote:
> Moo wrote:
>> As long as I'm not medically overweight, I don't see what makes that
>> other people's business.
>
> This is a major reason why you're not married yet. Want the other ones?

Don't you think that personal attacks like this are unwarranted and
downright offensive? My parents always taught me "If you don't have
anything nice to say, don't say it at all", which seems like a fairly good
guide.

--
Alex Pounds (Creature) .~. LGBTSoc Comms Person
CS2 Student /V\ Website working group chair
// \\ Environmental committee member
"Variables won't; Constants aren't" /( )\
^`~'^

While frolicking around in alt.food.vegan, Creature of University of
Kent at Canterbury said:

>Don't you think that personal attacks like this are unwarranted and
>downright offensive? My parents always taught me "If you don't have
>anything nice to say, don't say it at all", which seems like a fairly good
>guide.

He has taken a personal dislike to me, but I don't really care what he
thinks of me, as my opinion of him isn't too high either and I
consider ther source of the attempted insults.

Thanks for standing up for me, but he doesn't really bother me more
than I can simply decide to not waste my time on him. Obviously he
feels like wasting his time on me, but that's his choice and his
problem, really.
--
Nikitta a.a. #1759 Apatriot(No, not apricot)#18
ICQ# 251532856
Unreferenced footnotes: http://www.nut.house.cx/cgi-bin/nemwiki.pl?ISFN
"I get tired of being told what we are supposed to be. There is a
man or woman out there to appreciate every kind of man or woman.
Be yourself." ClaySkye (a.a.)

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:03:05 +0100, MEow wrote:
> While frolicking around in alt.food.vegan, Creature of University of
> Kent at Canterbury said:
>
>>Don't you think that personal attacks like this are unwarranted and
>>downright offensive? My parents always taught me "If you don't have
>>anything nice to say, don't say it at all", which seems like a fairly good
>>guide.
>
> He has taken a personal dislike to me, but I don't really care what he
> thinks of me, as my opinion of him isn't too high either and I
> consider ther source of the attempted insults.

Yeah, I had no doubt that you'd be alright. It's just that he (she?) does
contribute to the group usefully at times, and I can't wrap my head around
someone who'd want to throw that much vitriol at anyone. Just seemed to
cross the line between dislike and hatred to me.



--
Alex Pounds (Creature) .~. LGBTSoc Comms Person
CS2 Student /V\ Website working group chair
// \\ Environmental committee member
"Variables won't; Constants aren't" /( )\
^`~'^

Moo wrote:
> He has taken a personal dislike to me, but I don't really care what he
> thinks of me, as my opinion of him isn't too high either and I
> consider ther source of the attempted insults.

You still owe me an apology, Nikitta. Even the OP in that thread thought
my questions were entirely fair. That didn't stop you from lashing out
at me in a most obscene fashion.

> Thanks for standing up for me, but he doesn't really bother me more
> than I can simply decide to not waste my time on him. Obviously he
> feels like wasting his time on me, but that's his choice and his
> problem, really.

I bother you a lot. That's why you've killfiled me.

Creature wrote:
>>>As long as I'm not medically overweight, I don't see what makes that
>>>other people's business.
>>
>>This is a major reason why you're not married yet. Want the other ones?
>
> Don't you think that personal attacks like this are unwarranted and
> downright offensive?

No. Not at all. There's a context of which you may be unaware. She took
the low road and declined to apologize, so now I'm going to be brutally
honest with her even if my advice is unsolicited.

> My parents always taught me "If you don't have
> anything nice to say, don't say it at all", which seems like a fairly good
> guide.

They plagiarized Thumper's mother from "Bambi." They also didn't
encounter large androgynous Danes in vegan newsgroups.

Creature wrote:
> Yeah, I had no doubt that you'd be alright. It's just that he (she?)

He.

> does
> contribute to the group usefully at times,

Thanks for noticing.

> and I can't wrap my head around
> someone who'd want to throw that much vitriol at anyone.

It's not vitriol, it's honesty. Do a Google image search on her first
name. Her pics are the first two that come up. I didn't exaggerate my
comments in that post because I know that the truth hurts enough.

> Just seemed to
> cross the line between dislike and hatred to me.

I don't hate anyone, and I dislike what she did. I was quite polite to
her prior to that exchange, and I can be again. She's been given
opportunities to apologize, even privately. She's declined.

usual suspect > wrote in message >. ..
> Moo wrote:
> > As long as I'm not medically overweight, I don't see what makes that
> > other people's business.
>
> This is a major reason why you're not married yet. Want the other ones?

That was a mean comment to make.

-Rubystars

"usual suspect" > wrote in message
...
> Creature wrote:

> It's not vitriol, it's honesty. Do a Google image search on her first
> name. Her pics are the first two that come up. I didn't exaggerate my
> comments in that post because I know that the truth hurts enough.

I did the search and found her website. She is not fat. Maybe you need to
adjust the horizontal width on your computer monitor.

> I don't hate anyone, and I dislike what she did. I was quite polite to
> her prior to that exchange, and I can be again. She's been given
> opportunities to apologize, even privately. She's declined.

Apologize to you?! You refer to her as "Moo" and write things like "This is
a major reason why you're not married yet. Want the other ones?" and you
expect an apology? You owe her an apology.

While frolicking around in alt.food.vegan, Rubystars of
http://groups.google.com said:

>> I'm lactose intolerant, so dairy products would make me ill. I don't
>> think that anyone would disagree that this makes it a good idea for me
>> to avoid dairy products, and I'm not going to give up on my Marmite
>> sandwiches, so margarine is my only choice.
>
>It's good that there are so many options for people who are lactose
>intolerant now, like soy milk and rice milk, and margarine instead of
>butter, etc.
>
That it is. There's also options for gluten intolerant people and
other people with different things they can't eat, plus un-perfumed
products for people who can't use perfume and generally options made
for people who are allergic, or hypersensitive, to something :0)

>> As long as I'm not medically overweight, I don't see what makes that
>> other people's business. Cosmetically, I would look better a bit
>> lighter, but medically speaking I'm within the range of normal weight,
>> so people should really mind their own business with that.
>
>I'm overweight right now. I'm not telling anyone what to eat or not
>eat, and I would resent anyone trying to dictate to me what I should
>eat or not eat. I just think that milk and eggs are a convenient way
>to get some nutrients, and that's all I was saying.

I agree and I see your point. If I hadn't been lactose intolerant I
might have considered ecological dairy products, since the standards
for what you can call ecological is stricter here in Sweden than in
Denmark, and it includes treating the cows better, plus letting the
calves stay with their mothers for a longer time.
>
>I want people to follow their principles and meet their own needs.
>
Exactly. I think you'll like the quote in my signature :0)
--
Nikitta a.a. #1759 Apatriot(No, not apricot)#18
ICQ# 251532856
Unreferenced footnotes: http://www.nut.house.cx/cgi-bin/nemwiki.pl?ISFN
"I get tired of being told what we are supposed to be. There is a
man or woman out there to appreciate every kind of man or woman.
Be yourself." ClaySkye (a.a.)

C. James Strutz wrote:
>>It's not vitriol, it's honesty. Do a Google image search on her first
>>name. Her pics are the first two that come up. I didn't exaggerate my
>>comments in that post because I know that the truth hurts enough.
>
> I did the search and found her website. She is not fat.

Yes, she is.

> Maybe you need to
> adjust the horizontal width on your computer monitor.

My monitor is fine.

>>I don't hate anyone, and I dislike what she did. I was quite polite to
>>her prior to that exchange, and I can be again. She's been given
>>opportunities to apologize, even privately. She's declined.
>
> Apologize to you?!

Yes!

> You refer to her as "Moo" and write things like "This is
> a major reason why you're not married yet. Want the other ones?" and you
> expect an apology?

Yes.

> You owe her an apology.

Why?

Rubystars wrote:
>>>As long as I'm not medically overweight, I don't see what makes that
>>>other people's business.
>>
>>This is a major reason why you're not married yet. Want the other ones?
>
> That was a mean comment to make.

Allow me to clarify, though I doubt it'll change your mind that it's
mean. Her careless attitude (not worried about what other people think)
about her appearance is the reason why, not her weight itself. She could
probably catch a guy if that were her only issue.

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:34:20 -0500, C. James Strutz wrote:
> "usual suspect" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Creature wrote:
>
>> It's not vitriol, it's honesty. Do a Google image search on her first
>> name. Her pics are the first two that come up. I didn't exaggerate my
>> comments in that post because I know that the truth hurts enough.
>
> I did the search and found her website. She is not fat. Maybe you need to
> adjust the horizontal width on your computer monitor.

Please be careful with your attributions. Although the quote-indentation
is correct, this looks like the first paragraph was from me, when it
wasn't. Thanks.

--
Alex Pounds (Creature) .~. LGBTSoc Comms Person
CS2 Student /V\ Website working group chair
// \\ Environmental committee member
"Variables won't; Constants aren't" /( )\
^`~'^

I am afraid that you seriously have to get real.

She is not fat. in fact, she looks very healthy. More so than many of
the nearly anorexic vegans that I know.

Time that you started to think for yourself and stopped thinking that
women are supposed to look like supermodels and porn stars
(http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/vp_binks/20031103.html).

-- Blue

usual suspect wrote:
> Creature wrote:
>
>> Yeah, I had no doubt that you'd be alright. It's just that he (she?)
>
>
> He.
>
>> does
>> contribute to the group usefully at times,
>
>
> Thanks for noticing.
>
>> and I can't wrap my head around
>> someone who'd want to throw that much vitriol at anyone.
>
>
> It's not vitriol, it's honesty. Do a Google image search on her first
> name. Her pics are the first two that come up. I didn't exaggerate my
> comments in that post because I know that the truth hurts enough.
>
>> Just seemed to
>> cross the line between dislike and hatred to me.
>
>
> I don't hate anyone, and I dislike what she did. I was quite polite to
> her prior to that exchange, and I can be again. She's been given
> opportunities to apologize, even privately. She's declined.
>

MEow > wrote in message >. ..
<Snip>
> Exactly. I think you'll like the quote in my signature :0)

That quote is awesome!!

-Rubystars

"usual suspect" > wrote in message
...

>> I did the search and found her website. She is not fat.

> Yes, she is.

You're way too hung up on THIN. It's too bad, there're a lot of great women
out there who don't pass your physique standards.

>> You refer to her as "Moo" and write things like "This is
>> a major reason why you're not married yet. Want the other ones?" and you
>> expect an apology?

> Yes.

>> You owe her an apology.

> Why?

Because they were mean, cruddy things to say.

C. James Strutz wrote:
>>>I did the search and found her website. She is not fat.
>
>>Yes, she is.
>
> You're way too hung up on THIN.

I'm not hung up on that. I like curvy women, just not THAT curvy.

> It's too bad, there're a lot of great women
> out there who don't pass your physique standards.

My girlfriend won't let me play with them anyway.

<...>
>>>You owe her an apology.
>
>>Why?
>
> Because they were mean, cruddy things to say.

I disagree, but she has me killfiled so it won't do any good.

Creature wrote:

> On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:15:02 GMT, usual suspect wrote:
>
>>Moo wrote:
>>
>>>As long as I'm not medically overweight, I don't see what makes that
>>>other people's business.
>>
>>This is a major reason why you're not married yet. Want the other ones?
>
>
> Don't you think that personal attacks like this are unwarranted and
> downright offensive? My parents always taught me "If you don't have
> anything nice to say, don't say it at all", which seems like a fairly good
> guide.

That advice is based on a misconception of how the
world works. Alice Roosevelt Longworth, Teddy
Roosevelt's daughter, got it right. She was a
tart-tongued Washington DC socialite who lived to an
incredibly old age. She famously said, "If you don't
have anything nice to say [about someone]...then come
sit next to me."

C. James Strutz wrote:

> "usual suspect" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Creature wrote:
>
>
>>It's not vitriol, it's honesty. Do a Google image search on her first
>>name. Her pics are the first two that come up. I didn't exaggerate my
>>comments in that post because I know that the truth hurts enough.
>
>
> I did the search and found her website. She is not fat.

She's decidely chunky, and she's pretty young (a few
years under 30), so it's only going to get worse.

It's also pretty obvious from the pics that a "vegan"
diet either is bad for, or doesn't make any improvement
in, complexion.

> Maybe you need to
> adjust the horizontal width on your computer monitor.
>
>
>>I don't hate anyone, and I dislike what she did. I was quite polite to
>>her prior to that exchange, and I can be again. She's been given
>>opportunities to apologize, even privately. She's declined.
>
>
> Apologize to you?! You refer to her as "Moo" and write things like "This is
> a major reason why you're not married yet. Want the other ones?" and you
> expect an apology? You owe her an apology.

He is merely stating the truth.

Creature wrote:

> On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:34:20 -0500, C. James Strutz wrote:
>
>>"usual suspect" > wrote in message
. ..
>>
>>>Creature wrote:
>>
>>>It's not vitriol, it's honesty. Do a Google image search on her first
>>>name. Her pics are the first two that come up. I didn't exaggerate my
>>>comments in that post because I know that the truth hurts enough.
>>
>>I did the search and found her website. She is not fat. Maybe you need to
>>adjust the horizontal width on your computer monitor.
>
>
> Please be careful with your attributions. Although the quote-indentation
> is correct, this looks like the first paragraph was from me, when it
> wasn't. Thanks.

See James Strut needs to be careful with a lot more
than just his attributions.