http://makeashorterlink.com/?V27666C26

FBI seeks suspect in East Bay bombings
Officials search home in Sonoma County

Stacy Finz, Jaxon Van Derbeken, Pamela J. Podger,
Chronicle Staff Writers
Friday, October 10, 2003

A clean-cut, soft-spoken 25-year-old Sonoma County man, who was trying
to invent a vegan marshmallow, is being hunted by federal agents on
charges that he bombed two Bay Area companies in the name of animal
rights.

Agents from the FBI and the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,
Firearms and Explosives identified the man Thursday as Daniel Andreas
San Diego, son of a prominent city official in Marin County. An
all-points bulletin lists him as being armed and dangerous.

A no-bail arrest warrant accuses San Diego of planting explosives on
Aug. 28 at Chiron Corp, a biotechnology company in Emeryville, and at
Shaklee Corp.,

a Pleasanton firm that makes health, beauty and household products,
less than a month later. No one was hurt in either blast.

Huntingdon Life Sciences, a research firm that uses animals for
testing and is particularly hated by activists, is a common
denominator between Shaklee and Chiron. Shaklee's parent company,
Yamanouchi Consumer Inc., and Chiron have done business with
Huntingdon.

Shortly after both bombings, a group calling itself Revolutionary
Cells claimed responsibility for the blasts in anonymous e-mails.
Authorities are not saying whether they believe San Diego wrote the
notes.

The key break in the case came when ATF agents discovered that a
Pleasanton police officer had pulled San Diego over for a traffic
violation in the business park where Shaklee is located. That traffic
stop happened an hour before the predawn blast on Sept. 26. Pleasanton
police Lt. Dave Spiller called it good old-fashioned police work.

Authorities acknowledge that the traffic stop led them to San Diego
and say physical evidence links him to the bombings. They would not
divulge what that evidence is.

San Diego's parents urged their son Thursday to surrender to
authorities. In a written statement, San Diego's father, Ed, who is
the city manager of Belvedere, expressed support for his son.

"Andreas is a very bright and sensitive young man who would refuse to
harm anybody or any living thing," he wrote. "We are very saddened
about today's developments . . . and were utterly surprised when
approached by the authorities regarding the warrant for his arrest."

Belvedere police Chief John Lundquist said Ed San Diego had told him
to be on the lookout for his son.

"He told me if Andreas comes around, we are to take appropriate
action," said Lundquist, adding that the son had been involved in
animal rights protests in San Francisco. "His dad had mentioned it."

"He's a very polite young man," the chief said. "This is pretty
surprising, actually."

A string of messages posted to an Internet bulletin board suggests
that San Diego had strong ties to the animal rights movement and
supported the work of Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty USA, or SHAC. The
group is dedicated to putting Huntingdon out of business and advocates
damaging property and economic sabotage to forward its cause.

"I think SHAC is having some more national demos coming up, and
national demos are always good," said a message using San Diego's name
that was posted on Feb. 14, 2001.

SHAC representatives say they don't know San Diego and have had no
contact with him. On its Web site, the group criticized the FBI,
saying that it routinely named the wrong people in these cases.

"The FBI couldn't catch a cold, let alone an underground liberation
activist," a member for the group wrote.

FBI Agent LaRae Quy, a spokeswoman for the bureau's Northern
California office, said investigators had information that San Diego
is linked to animal rights groups. "But that is not why we are issuing
the arrest warrant," she said, alleging that there is strong and solid
information connecting San Diego to the bombings.

"We believe there is a likelihood that other people were involved in
this," Quy said. But no other arrest warrant has been issued.

The FBI has been watching San Diego for some time, authorities said.
Agents told Sonoma County sheriff's detectives last Friday that they
were surveilling San Diego at his rental house in Schellville, a tiny
rural community four miles south of the town of Sonoma. A complaint
was filed in U.S. District Court two days later charging San Diego
with maliciously damaging and destroying property and buildings with
explosives. Documents supporting the arrest warrant were filed under
seal.

Quy said agents had lost track of San Diego last weekend. On
Wednesday, agents searched his two-story home on Acacia Lane.
Neighbors said they had watched as investigators, wearing hazardous
material suits, went in and out of the house.

Myles McMonigle, who lives close by, said it appeared that the agents
had been looking for residues and chemicals that could be used in
bombs. McMonigle said an FBI agent had asked him if he had any new PVC
pipe, which he didn't.

Norman Gilroy said he had rented the house to San Diego in June. The
organic farmer, who lives in a house behind the 25-year-old, said San
Diego appeared to be a law-abiding, "extremely poised man."

"The last thing I would picture him as is a bomber," Gilroy said. "He
is a very nice young man -- a well-spoken intellectual."

Gilroy said San Diego was a vegan who was working on developing a
marshmallow made without gelatin. Gelatin is made by boiling animal
tissue in water.

Other neighbors said San Diego did not appear to have a full-time job
and received unemployment checks in the mail. They said he would
sometimes go off for days at a time.

Chronicle staff writer Matthew B. Stannard contributed to this report.
/ E-mail Stacy Finz at .

Goddess of Groundhogs wrote:

> Maxie P. Diddly poked his/her head out of his hole and screamed
> : at the world.
>
>
>>http://makeashorterlink.com/?V27666C26
>>
>
> <snip>
>
>
>>Gilroy said San Diego was a vegan who was working on developing a
>>marshmallow made without gelatin. Gelatin is made by boiling
>>animal tissue in water.
>
>
>
> I'm not a vegan. Just a vegetarian. I use Knox unflavored gelatin
> on my plants for an organic fertilizer. Now I see this.
> *sigh*
> And marshmallows are off the list, too, now.

It never ceases to amaze me how you people think you
have things all figured out, yet are so appallingly
ignorant of some basics.

In article . net>,
Jonathan Ball > wrote:

> Goddess of Groundhogs wrote:
>
> > Maxie P. Diddly poked his/her head out of his hole and screamed
> > : at the world.
> >
> >
> >>http://makeashorterlink.com/?V27666C26
> >>
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> >
> >>Gilroy said San Diego was a vegan who was working on developing a
> >>marshmallow made without gelatin. Gelatin is made by boiling
> >>animal tissue in water.
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm not a vegan. Just a vegetarian. I use Knox unflavored gelatin
> > on my plants for an organic fertilizer. Now I see this.
> > *sigh*
> > And marshmallows are off the list, too, now.
>
> It never ceases to amaze me how you people think you
> have things all figured out, yet are so appallingly
> ignorant of some basics.


It never ceases to amaze me that individuals AT LEAST as ignorant as the
rest of us speaks of our shared ignorances in terms of "you people" as
though you're not also a human being & therefore, by the nature of the
species, pretty much a dumbass.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

paghat wrote:
> In article . net>,
> Jonathan Ball > wrote:
>
>
>>Goddess of Groundhogs wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Maxie P. Diddly poked his/her head out of his hole and screamed
: at the world.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>http://makeashorterlink.com/?V27666C26
>>>>
>>>
>>><snip>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Gilroy said San Diego was a vegan who was working on developing a
>>>>marshmallow made without gelatin. Gelatin is made by boiling
>>>>animal tissue in water.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I'm not a vegan. Just a vegetarian. I use Knox unflavored gelatin
>>>on my plants for an organic fertilizer. Now I see this.
>>>*sigh*
>>>And marshmallows are off the list, too, now.
>>
>>It never ceases to amaze me how you people think you
>>have things all figured out, yet are so appallingly
>>ignorant of some basics.
>
>
>
> It never ceases to amaze me that individuals AT LEAST as ignorant as the
> rest of us

If you are a "vegan", you are by definition more
ignorant than average.

> speaks of our shared ignorances

Oh, no you don't. Nothing shared about it. I don't
share the appalling special ignorance of "vegans" at
all, and I am willing to bet I'm far less ignorant than
them on more general matters.

> in terms of "you people" as
> though you're not also a human being

Most human beings are not "vegans", thankfully.

> & therefore, by the nature of the
> species, pretty much a dumbass.
>
> -paghat the ratgirl

I remember you. You took a few dumps in a.a.e.v.
and/or t.p.a. a few years back. I went to visit your
web page once. What a miasma of self absorption.

You got everything completely wrong with that silly
rant about garden tools, which I knew you would as soon
as I saw your snotty elitist whine about tools having
orange handles.

Goddess of Groundhogs wrote:

> Jonathan Ball poked his/her head out of his hole and screamed
> ink.net: at the
> world.
>
>
>>Goddess of Groundhogs wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Maxie P. Diddly poked his/her head out of his hole and screamed
: at the world.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>http://makeashorterlink.com/?V27666C26
>>>>
>>>
>>><snip>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Gilroy said San Diego was a vegan who was working on developing
>
> a
>
>>>>marshmallow made without gelatin. Gelatin is made by boiling
>>>>animal tissue in water.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I'm not a vegan. Just a vegetarian. I use Knox unflavored
>
> gelatin
>
>>>on my plants for an organic fertilizer. Now I see this.
>>>*sigh*
>>>And marshmallows are off the list, too, now.
>>
>>It never ceases to amaze me how you people think you
>>have things all figured out, yet are so appallingly
>>ignorant of some basics.
>
>
> Well, would you care to enlighten me, mr Ball?

Sure; you bet; goddamned glad to be of assistance.

> In other words, what are you talking about?

I'm talking about quite a few things, actually. First
is your astonishing ignorance of ingredients. I am not
vegetarian at all (it's a completely unnatural diet for
the overwhelming majority of humans), and I've known
since I was a small child that gelatin came from
animals. You claim to be some kind of vegetarian -
I'll bet the ranch your vegetarianism is based on
ethics, not health, so you might as well be "vegan" -
but you don't know one of the more basic vegetarian
factlettes.

Second, your ethical/spiritual vegetarianism is a total
lie. You are lying to yourself if you think not
consuming any animal parts means you are leading a
"cruelty free" life. Animals are slaughtered with
abandon in order to supply the foods you eat.

Third, somewhat related to the second, you are engaging
in what I have labeled the Irrational Search for
Micrograms of Animal Parts conducted by all goofy
"vegans", and usually abbreviated to the Search for
Micrograms. It is the fatuous and bogus belief that
you can attain some kind of ethical purity by looking
for and extirpating the last microgram of animal parts
from your diet. It is akin to the biblical story about
the person looking for the mote in his neighbor's eye
while ignoring the beam in his own. That is, it is
about massive and disgusting hypocrisy.

Ethical vegetarianism is pure sanctimonious hypocrisy.

Yer such a whoreson.

"Maxie P. Diddly" > wrote in message
...
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?V27666C26
<snip boring meaningless chyve shite>

http://makeashorterlink.com/?J27C52E26

Bombing suspect's parents retain S.F. attorney
Belvedere city manager urges son to surrender

Stacy Finz, Jaxon Van Derbeken, Pamela J. Podger,
Chronicle Staff Writers
Saturday, October 11, 2003

The parents of a 25-year-old animal rights activist wanted on
suspicion of bombing two Bay Area businesses have contacted a
prominent San Francisco attorney in hopes of persuading their son to
surrender to charges that, if proved, could put him in prison for up
to 30 years.

The family of Daniel Andreas San Diego of Schellville in Sonoma County
issued an appeal Friday urging him to contact attorney Jim Collins and
surrender immediately to federal authorities.

Collins is a criminal defense attorney who has been involved in a
number of high-profile cases, most recently one involving three
off-duty San Francisco police officers accused of assaulting two men
on Union Street when they refused to hand over a take-home bag of
fajitas.

FBI agents said Friday they were concentrating their search in the Bay
Area for San Diego, who is listed in an all-points bulletin as being
armed and dangerous.

A no-bail arrest warrant accuses him of detonating two pipe bombs on
Aug. 28 at Chiron Corp., a biotechnology company in Emeryville, and
exploding another bomb on Sept. 26 at Shaklee Inc., a Pleasanton firm
that makes health, beauty and household products. No one was hurt in
either blast.

An animal rights group calling itself Revolutionary Cells claimed
responsibility for the blasts in anonymous e-mails and said the two
companies were targeted because of their ties to Huntingdon Life
Sciences. The New Jersey company conducts drug and chemical
experiments on animals for other firms, including Shaklee's parent
company, Yamanouchi Consumer Inc., and Chiron.

Agents from the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and
Explosives later discovered that Pleasanton police had stopped San
Diego for a traffic violation near the Shaklee offices an hour before
the predawn blast. The FBI has physical evidence linking San Diego to
all three bombings but has refused to say what it is.

"We're hoping he is still in the Bay Area, so he can hear the appeal
by his parents and his friends," said FBI Agent LaRae Quy, a
spokesperson for the Northern California office. "He needs to end this
before he enters into a lifetime of being a federal fugitive."

Authorities said San Diego, if convicted, faces up to 10 years in
prison on each of the three bombing charges -- or a maximum of 30
years.

The suspect's father, Edmund San Diego, is the city manager of the
wealthy Marin County town of the Belvedere.

In a statement e-mailed to The Chronicle, Edmund San Diego and his
wife, Heike, asked their son to contact Collins to pave the way for
his surrender.

"We continue to be bewildered by the situation as it unfolds and still
know little more than what we read or see in the press," the couple
said.

"Our position in urging our son to surrender to the authorities
without incident as soon as possible remains unchanged," they said.
"We only desire to have this matter properly addressed as soon as
possible without anyone feeling threatened or worse happening."

In a telephone interview Friday evening, Collins said, "I've been
retained by the parents, and I'm acting only as a facilitator. At this
point, I've not had contact with him."

He said the family has yet to arrange with him to be San Diego's
defense attorney.

The suspect worked for two years at In Defense of Animals, a nonprofit
in Mill Valley, when he was about 19 years old, said group founder
Elliot Katz, a veterinarian.

"He was a very gentle human being who cared very deeply about
animals," Katz said. "He seemed like he was totally nonviolent. He
wouldn't hurt a fly, let alone a human being."

Katz said he was alarmed that San Diego was "packaged" as a dangerous
person and was fearful for his safety, as well as skeptical that the
federal authorities had pinpointed the right man.

"We all know of instances where the FBI has picked the wrong person,
and it is a frightening situation," Katz said. "I don't have a great
deal of trust in the decisions they make."

Danielle Matthews, a spokesperson at Stop Huntington Animal Cruelty in
New Jersey, cast aspersions on the FBI probe, while distancing her
group from San Diego. "We've never heard of him, and those East Bay
bombings were carried out anonymously. Other than their repeated
failings in the past, we don't have any indication that the FBI are
more on target this time."

But the FBI's Quy alleged that there was solid information connecting
San Diego to the bombing, adding that several other people may be
involved. No other arrest warrants have been issued, she said Friday.

Quy said agents were surveilling San Diego last week but lost track of
him over the weekend. On Wednesday, agents searched his two-story home
on Acacia Lane in Schellville.

E-mail the authors at ,
and .

©2003 San Francisco Chronicle

On 10 Oct 2003 19:40:20 GMT, Goddess of Groundhogs
> wrote:

> Maxie P. Diddly poked his/her head out of his hole and screamed
> : at the world.
>
> > http://makeashorterlink.com/?V27666C26
> >
> <snip>
>
> > Gilroy said San Diego was a vegan who was working on developing a
> > marshmallow made without gelatin. Gelatin is made by boiling
> > animal tissue in water.
>
>
> I'm not a vegan. Just a vegetarian. I use Knox unflavored gelatin
> on my plants for an organic fertilizer. Now I see this.
> *sigh*
> And marshmallows are off the list, too, now.

I was under the impression that vegan marshmallows have already been
made, and are on the way to market.
--
"Given for one instant an intelligence which could comprehend all the
forces by which nature is animated and the respective positions of the
things which compose it...nothing would be uncertain, and the future as
the past would be laid out before its eyes."
- Pierre Simon de Laplace

Maxie P. Diddly wrote:
> On 10 Oct 2003 19:40:20 GMT, Goddess of Groundhogs
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Maxie P. Diddly poked his/her head out of his hole and screamed
: at the world.
>>
>>
>>>http://makeashorterlink.com/?V27666C26
>>>
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>
>>>Gilroy said San Diego was a vegan who was working on developing a
>>>marshmallow made without gelatin. Gelatin is made by boiling
>>>animal tissue in water.
>>
>>
>>I'm not a vegan. Just a vegetarian. I use Knox unflavored gelatin
>>on my plants for an organic fertilizer. Now I see this.
>>*sigh*
>>And marshmallows are off the list, too, now.
>
>
> I was under the impression that vegan marshmallows have already been
> made, and are on the way to market.

A few years ago, I checked out the ingredients of marshmallows, and had
a reply from a few of the manufactures as to where the gelatin comes
from. In canada and the united states, the gelatin comes from pig skin.
It is so refined from its natural state, that Rabbi's actually certify
it as kosher.

I also learned that in the shipping industry, there are Rabbi's that
actually deem transportation as safe for kosher foods (ie cargo bins
etc, never having touched certain other things).

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 06:45:23 GMT, Hy > wrote:

> Maxie P. Diddly wrote:
> > On 10 Oct 2003 19:40:20 GMT, Goddess of Groundhogs
> > > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Maxie P. Diddly poked his/her head out of his hole and screamed
> : at the world.
> >>
> >>
> >>>http://makeashorterlink.com/?V27666C26
> >>>
> >>
> >><snip>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Gilroy said San Diego was a vegan who was working on developing a
> >>>marshmallow made without gelatin. Gelatin is made by boiling
> >>>animal tissue in water.
> >>
> >>
> >>I'm not a vegan. Just a vegetarian. I use Knox unflavored gelatin
> >>on my plants for an organic fertilizer. Now I see this.
> >>*sigh*
> >>And marshmallows are off the list, too, now.
> >
> >
> > I was under the impression that vegan marshmallows have already been
> > made, and are on the way to market.
>
> A few years ago, I checked out the ingredients of marshmallows, and had
> a reply from a few of the manufactures as to where the gelatin comes
> from. In canada and the united states, the gelatin comes from pig skin.
> It is so refined from its natural state, that Rabbi's actually certify
> it as kosher.
>
> I also learned that in the shipping industry, there are Rabbi's that
> actually deem transportation as safe for kosher foods (ie cargo bins
> etc, never having touched certain other things).

Try this link:
http://www.veganstore.com/marshmallows.html

--
"Given for one instant an intelligence which could comprehend all the
forces by which nature is animated and the respective positions of the
things which compose it...nothing would be uncertain, and the future as
the past would be laid out before its eyes."
- Pierre Simon de Laplace

Maxie P. Diddly wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 06:45:23 GMT, Hy > wrote:
>
>
>>Maxie P. Diddly wrote:
>>
>>>On 10 Oct 2003 19:40:20 GMT, Goddess of Groundhogs
> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Maxie P. Diddly poked his/her head out of his hole and screamed
: at the world.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>http://makeashorterlink.com/?V27666C26
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>><snip>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Gilroy said San Diego was a vegan who was working on developing a
>>>>>marshmallow made without gelatin. Gelatin is made by boiling
>>>>>animal tissue in water.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I'm not a vegan. Just a vegetarian. I use Knox unflavored gelatin
>>>>on my plants for an organic fertilizer. Now I see this.
>>>>*sigh*
>>>>And marshmallows are off the list, too, now.
>>>
>>>
>>>I was under the impression that vegan marshmallows have already been
>>>made, and are on the way to market.
>>
>>A few years ago, I checked out the ingredients of marshmallows, and had
>>a reply from a few of the manufactures as to where the gelatin comes
>>from. In canada and the united states, the gelatin comes from pig skin.
>>It is so refined from its natural state, that Rabbi's actually certify
>>it as kosher.
>>
>>I also learned that in the shipping industry, there are Rabbi's that
>>actually deem transportation as safe for kosher foods (ie cargo bins
>>etc, never having touched certain other things).
>
>
> Try this link:
> http://www.veganstore.com/marshmallows.html

Cool, so when you see them, get them and please tell me how they taste.

Why couldn't you use agar?

Zsarnok

Goddess of Groundhogs wrote:

> Maxie P. Diddly poked his/her head out of his hole and screamed
> : at the world.
>
>
>>http://makeashorterlink.com/?V27666C26
>>
>
> <snip>
>
>
>>Gilroy said San Diego was a vegan who was working on developing a
>>marshmallow made without gelatin. Gelatin is made by boiling
>>animal tissue in water.
>
>
>
> I'm not a vegan. Just a vegetarian. I use Knox unflavored gelatin
> on my plants for an organic fertilizer. Now I see this.
> *sigh*
> And marshmallows are off the list, too, now.
>

Marshmellows are a basic?

Zsarnok

Jonathan Ball wrote:

> Goddess of Groundhogs wrote:
>
>> Maxie P. Diddly poked his/her head out of his hole and screamed
>> : at the world.
>>
>>> http://makeashorterlink.com/?V27666C26
>>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>
>>> Gilroy said San Diego was a vegan who was working on developing a
>>> marshmallow made without gelatin. Gelatin is made by boiling
>>> animal tissue in water.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm not a vegan. Just a vegetarian. I use Knox unflavored gelatin on
>> my plants for an organic fertilizer. Now I see this. *sigh* And
>> marshmallows are off the list, too, now.
>
>
> It never ceases to amaze me how you people think you have things all
> figured out, yet are so appallingly ignorant of some basics.
>

Gelatin/thickener from red algea. You might be able to get it in bulk
from somewhere. Otherwise it's in health food stores, which is expensive.

Zsarnok

Goddess of Groundhogs wrote:

> Zsarnok poked his/her head out of his hole and screamed news:ZHmib.42288
> : at the world.
>
>
>>Why couldn't you use agar?
>
>
> Cuz I don't know what it is.
>
>
>
>
>>Zsarnok
>>
>>Goddess of Groundhogs wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Maxie P. Diddly poked his/her head out of his hole and screamed
: at the world.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>http://makeashorterlink.com/?V27666C26
>>>>
>>>
>>><snip>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Gilroy said San Diego was a vegan who was working on developing a
>>>>marshmallow made without gelatin. Gelatin is made by boiling
>>>>animal tissue in water.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I'm not a vegan. Just a vegetarian. I use Knox unflavored gelatin
>>>on my plants for an organic fertilizer. Now I see this.
>>>*sigh*
>>>And marshmallows are off the list, too, now.
>>>
>>
>
>
>

We used to have horses and used the manure to enrich a garden. We
dropped in the seeds, watered regularly and couldn't keep up with a
10x12 little patch! If you can cart some away one or twice a year from
a stable, you may need nothing else. And it only costs time -- and a
truck wash.

Zsarnok

Goddess of Groundhogs wrote:

> Zsarnok poked his/her head out of his hole and screamed
> hlink.net: at the world.
>
>
>>Gelatin/thickener from red algea. You might be able to get it in bulk
>>from somewhere. Otherwise it's in health food stores, which is
>>expensive.
>
>
> All I use gelatin for is plant food. It makes a plant grow like crazy.
> Maybe the red algae would work, but as you say, it's expensive. I'm not
> spending a lotta money on plant food.
>
>
>
>>Zsarnok
>>
>>Goddess of Groundhogs wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Zsarnok poked his/her head out of his hole and screamed
>>>news:ZHmib.42288 : at the
>>>world.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Why couldn't you use agar?
>>>
>>>
>>>Cuz I don't know what it is.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Zsarnok
>>>>
>>>>Goddess of Groundhogs wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Maxie P. Diddly poked his/her head out of his hole and screamed
: at the world.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>http://makeashorterlink.com/?V27666C26
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>><snip>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Gilroy said San Diego was a vegan who was working on developing a
>>>>>>marshmallow made without gelatin. Gelatin is made by boiling
>>>>>>animal tissue in water.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm not a vegan. Just a vegetarian. I use Knox unflavored gelatin
>>>>>on my plants for an organic fertilizer. Now I see this.
>>>>>*sigh*
>>>>>And marshmallows are off the list, too, now.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>

> We used to have horses and used the manure to enrich a garden. We
> dropped in the seeds, watered regularly and couldn't keep up with a
> 10x12 little patch! If you can cart some away one or twice a year from
> a stable, you may need nothing else. And it only costs time -- and a
> truck wash.
>

Careful...you need to let it sit and age, at least a bit, like a good
merlot (g). Main issue of aging and regularly spading manure before
using it for fertilizer is that horses eat (shock!) hay, grass, etc.
even weeds. These species (as with some wild flora that depend on deer
to do the same thing) have developed seeds that remain viable after
passing through Dobbin's intestines. Some species (I forget which)
depend on it, and their seeds won't germinate UNLESS they have been
softened up by the digestive juices.

So fresh horse manure can introduce a high weed population to your
garden. Hence the bucolic custom of the manure pile.

But still, yes, bravo. Horseshit - it's not just for usenet any more!

Paul

Goddess of Groundhogs wrote:

> Zsarnok poked his/her head out of his hole and screamed
> .net: at the world.
>
> That's excellent for outdoors!! Yea, nothing works like some horse manure
> outside. Problem is... my plants are indoors. No horse shit on them!!
> heheh The Knox works great, really. If it has boiled down animal
> renderings in it, well, I doubt the plants will mind too much.
>
Oooohhhh! Yeah, that's a different thing. Course, if you keep a pile
outdoors and compost, it loses the aroma after a year or so. But there
is an ick factor in handling it I suppose.
>
>>We used to have horses and used the manure to enrich a garden. We
>>dropped in the seeds, watered regularly and couldn't keep up with a
>>10x12 little patch! If you can cart some away one or twice a year from
>>a stable, you may need nothing else. And it only costs time -- and a
>>truck wash.
>>
>>Zsarnok
>>
>>Goddess of Groundhogs wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Zsarnok poked his/her head out of his hole and screamed
arthlink.net: at the
>>>world.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Gelatin/thickener from red algea. You might be able to get it in bulk
>>>
>>>>from somewhere. Otherwise it's in health food stores, which is
>>>
>>>>expensive.
>>>
>>>
>>>All I use gelatin for is plant food. It makes a plant grow like crazy.
>>>Maybe the red algae would work, but as you say, it's expensive. I'm not
>>>spending a lotta money on plant food.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Zsarnok
>>>>
>>>>Goddess of Groundhogs wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Zsarnok poked his/her head out of his hole and screamed
>>>>>news:ZHmib.42288 : at the
>>>>>world.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Why couldn't you use agar?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Cuz I don't know what it is.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Zsarnok
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Goddess of Groundhogs wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Maxie P. Diddly poked his/her head out of his hole and screamed
: at the world.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>http://makeashorterlink.com/?V27666C26
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>><snip>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Gilroy said San Diego was a vegan who was working on developing a
>>>>>>>>marshmallow made without gelatin. Gelatin is made by boiling
>>>>>>>>animal tissue in water.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I'm not a vegan. Just a vegetarian. I use Knox unflavored gelatin
>>>>>>>on my plants for an organic fertilizer. Now I see this.
>>>>>>>*sigh*
>>>>>>>And marshmallows are off the list, too, now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>

Paul Hume wrote:

>>We used to have horses and used the manure to enrich a garden. We
>>dropped in the seeds, watered regularly and couldn't keep up with a
>>10x12 little patch! If you can cart some away one or twice a year from
>>a stable, you may need nothing else. And it only costs time -- and a
>>truck wash.
>>
> Careful...you need to let it sit and age, at least a bit, like a good
> merlot (g). Main issue of aging and regularly spading manure before
> using it for fertilizer is that horses eat (shock!) hay, grass, etc.
> even weeds. These species (as with some wild flora that depend on deer
> to do the same thing) have developed seeds that remain viable after
> passing through Dobbin's intestines. Some species (I forget which)
> depend on it, and their seeds won't germinate UNLESS they have been
> softened up by the digestive juices.
>
> So fresh horse manure can introduce a high weed population to your
> garden. Hence the bucolic custom of the manure pile.
>
> But still, yes, bravo. Horseshit - it's not just for usenet any more!
>
> Paul

True. We had the horses for quite a while before the garden. So the
pile was a good mix of a bit of fresh on top to already composted dirt
on the bottom. Then we tilled it in. Almost no weeds at all. Which is
good, because you can't get topsoil without having weed seeds in it. Of
course this is Michigan, so even where it is sandy, just spit out the
seed and watch the plant grow.

Zsarnok

Goddess of Groundhogs wrote:

> Zsarnok poked his/her head out of his hole and screamed
> hlink.net: at the world.
>
>
>>
>>Goddess of Groundhogs wrote:
>
>
>>>That's excellent for outdoors!! Yea, nothing works like some horse
>>>manure outside. Problem is... my plants are indoors. No horse shit on
>>>them!! heheh The Knox works great, really. If it has boiled down animal
>>>renderings in it, well, I doubt the plants will mind too much.
>>>
>>
>>Oooohhhh! Yeah, that's a different thing. Course, if you keep a pile
>>outdoors and compost, it loses the aroma after a year or so. But there
>>is an ick factor in handling it I suppose.
>
>
> Getting dirty never bothered me. Honest. I'll jump in and sling manure
> with the rest. But! I think my landlord might have a problem with an
> aromatic pile of horseshit outside -no matter how cured it is. LOL!!
>
Big compost makes for distant neighbors ....

Zsarnok