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Vegan (alt.food.vegan) This newsgroup exists to share ideas and issues of concern among vegans. We are always happy to share our recipes- perhaps especially with omnivores who are simply curious- or even better, accomodating a vegan guest for a meal! |
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Posted to alt.food.vegan.science,alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian
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Some real scientific information on raw vegan diets
crisology wrote:
> ... very very misleading without anatomical adaptations that would > allow humans to digest meat ... Whoops!! HINT: digestion is a biochemical process, NOT an "anatomical" one. This is baby biochemistry, please try reading a bit, and limit posts to a.f.v.s to scientifically-credible content. Laurie -- Scientifically-credible info on plant-based human diets: http://ecologos.org/ttdd.html news:alt.food.vegan.science |
Posted to alt.food.vegan.science,alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian
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Some real scientific information on raw vegan diets
wrote:
> ... humans of various species ... Various species? "Species" refers to populations that can NOT interbreed. Are you REALLY claiming that these alleged, but not identified, populations could NOT interbreed; and how you know this. Provide credible citations, or politely withdraw your assertions. > ... diet of our closest biological cousins the chimps shows them > eating everything in their environment also. Their tropical rain > forest provides mostly plant foods for them but they do not > hesitate to eat what few insects and small animals they can catch > even if a smaller part of the diet. There is NO evidence that all adult chimps consume flesh on a regular, i.e., nutritional basis. The evidence indicates that flesh is used by -some- adult males to exchange for sexual favors, much like human "dating". The evidence also indicates that the flesh is NOT swallowed, but merely chewed with a wad of leaves to extract the salty, sweet juices. IF it is not swallowed, it is NOT consumed or digested, thus NO nutritional value. http://ecologos.org/chimphunt.htm http://www.ecologos.org/meat-eating.htm http://www.ecologos.org/fft.htm http://ecologos.org/cbs.htm http://ecologos.org/iangilby.htm Try familiarizing yourself with the facts before posting to a.f.v.s. > They are a better analogy then fruit eating not closely related > plant only species from the distant past. Gibberish. > Even then humans and apes took seperate evolutionary paths 6 > million years ago ... Separate?? HOW do you explain the FACT that chimp and human genetic codes are a tiny 1.6% different? By being willfully ignorant of these facts? http://www.gate.net/~rwms/primegendist.html > ... and humans unlike apes can and do inhabit all parts of the > globe eating anything Humans, by abandoning our tropical niche also abandoned our natural diet to their collective destruction. There is a profound difference between the verbs "to do" and "to be". Humans can make self-destructive decisions based on cultural programming and profound ignorance. Wild animals, however, can not make errors. HINT: no volition, they operate on instincts, humans do not. The current "degenerates disease" statistics caused by consumption of animal corpses is clear evidence of this. TCCampbell; The China Study http://tinyurl.com/2v689m video http://tinyurl.com/6lcda6 Either make a sincere effort to present credible scientific citations that support your posts, OR preferably, leave a.f.v.s. Laurie Forti Moderator a.f.v.s -- Scientifically-credible info on plant-based human diets: http://ecologos.org/ttdd.html news:alt.food.vegan.science |
Posted to alt.food.vegan.science,alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian
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Some real scientific information on raw vegan diets
wrote:
> ... Homo can be read to reflect low-yield scavenging, *not* > hunting. ... People who believe thus nonsense about human scavenging of rotting corpses for food should TRY it out with some ripe road-kill. Especially those arm-chair academics who propagate this foolishnesses. Laurie -- Scientifically-credible info on plant-based human diets: http://ecologos.org/ttdd.html news:alt.food.vegan.science |
Posted to alt.food.vegan.science,alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian
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Some real scientific information on raw vegan diets
> ... Homo can be read to reflect low-yield scavenging, *not*
> hunting. ... " People who believe thus nonsense about human scavenging of rotting corpses for food should TRY it out with some ripe road-kill. Especially those arm-chair academics who propagate this foolishnesses." First, pearl was the source of the above, a fellow if it ain't a plant I ain't gonna eat it person such as yourself. Your remark to her point is hardly worth the time to respond. One bit of info to consider, humans even now make a choice to allow animal products to ferment/rot/decay/age before consuming it. In part it begins the breakdown of protein into more simple forms much as meat tenderizer does. Eskimos traditionally without large amounts of fuel for fires did exactly this for the above reason and because they prefered the taste. |
Posted to alt.food.vegan.science,alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian
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Some real scientific information on raw vegan diets
Now I see why many folk react so strongly toward your posts and you seem to
be a magnet for personal attack. Your logic is poor and your evidence cherry picked and crude and you are given to silly sermonizing at the drop of a hat. But being the good fellow I'm will give you the benefit of the doubt and indulge you a bit more. > ... humans of various species ... "Various species? "Species" refers to populations that can NOT interbreed. Are you REALLY claiming that these alleged, but not identified, populations could NOT interbreed; and how you know this. Provide credible citations, or politely withdraw your assertions." Smile, exactly that. There is at present one human species but in past there have been more. For example homo erectus. "Can't" is better stated as usually don't. For example cattle and buffalo can and do breed. Species is a statement about relative ability to breed by genetic similarity and behavior compatibility and opportunity. > ... diet of our closest biological cousins the chimps shows them > eating everything in their environment also. Their tropical rain > forest provides mostly plant foods for them but they do not > hesitate to eat what few insects and small animals they can catch > even if a smaller part of the diet. There is NO evidence that all adult chimps consume flesh on a regular, i.e., nutritional basis. The evidence indicates that flesh is used by -some- adult males to exchange for sexual favors, much like human "dating". The evidence also indicates that the flesh is NOT swallowed, but merely chewed with a wad of leaves to extract the salty, sweet juices. IF it is not swallowed, it is NOT consumed or digested, thus NO nutritional value. Smile, no, you need to keep up on these things. The first half of your remarks are strawmen. You don't get to define the context nor what it means. Meat is hunted and consumed and shared among males and females and individuals of both sexes catch animals to eat. When the favorite monkey is hunted as a group by male chimps and eaten, it is consumed down to the last morsel. This happens a minority of the time but it clearly happens. > They are a better analogy then fruit eating not closely related > plant only species from the distant past. Gibberish. > Even then humans and apes took seperate evolutionary paths 6 > million years ago ... "Separate?? HOW do you explain the FACT that chimp and human genetic codes are a tiny 1.6% different? By being willfully ignorant of these facts?" Smile, because among other things they cann't and don't intrbreed because of the genetic distance. It is a part of the fossel record. Humans and apes are seperate genetically and the last shared common ancestor was 6 million years ago. Apes and humans belong as seperate lines in the larger hominid group. >... and humans unlike apes can and do inhabit all parts of the > globe eating anything "Humans, by abandoning our tropical niche also abandoned our natural diet to their collective destruction." Smile, silly sermonizing. "There is a profound difference between the verbs "to do" and "to be". Humans can make self-destructive decisions based on cultural programming and profound ignorance. Wild animals, however, can not make errors. HINT: no volition, they operate on instincts, humans do not. The current "degenerates disease" statistics caused by consumption of animal corpses is clear evidence of this." Smile, no silly, most animals to various degrees base their behavior by learning. Humans have instincts also. Animals can and do make decisions that are fatal all the time. Chimps kill each other in what can be called "war" for example. Your last part is but more silly sermonizing. |
Posted to alt.food.vegan.science,alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian
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Some real scientific information on raw vegan diets
On 16 Aug, 00:47, wrote:
> Now I see why many folk react so strongly toward your posts and you seem to > be a magnet for personal attack. Your logic is poor and your evidence > cherry picked and crude and you are given to silly sermonizing at the drop > of a hat. * [snip] That's why I don't bother debating Laurie I tried it once, but not going to make that mistake again.. The moment you present some well- backed evidence, Laurie goes into hysterics. Personally, I think Laurie's understanding of science is on the level of that Chinese bint who seems to think natural catastrophes, such as volcanoes, earthquakes and tsunamis are caused by meat-eating. Regards, Dragonblaze |
Posted to alt.food.vegan.science,alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian
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Some real scientific information on raw vegan diets
wrote:
> Please read them again: IF you would like to communicate, then do so with citations that support your claims. It is the responsibility of the poster to support his/her posts with CREDIBLE SCIENCE on a.f.v.SCIENCE. If you continue to refuse to do so, please leave a.f.v.s. > Prehumans had access to animal based vit b12 for some millions of > years. No need to speculate about a time when they ate plant foods > only. There is NO evidence to support your unstated assertion that humans "evolved" to successfully consume dead, rotting animal corpses. There is NO evidence that we "adapted" to eat cooked food. http://ecologos.org/denature.htm There are NO mechanisms in the current Theory of Evolution to support your assertion. PLEASE attempt to support it with credible science, or stop propagandizing on a.f.v.s. > ... fully engaged in eating anything they could get their hands on for a long long time. Irrelevant to "adaptation". Cultural malpractices do NOT change our genetic codes. > To the best of my knowledge this is factual in all respects. That's the problem, isn't it? Your "knowledge " is erroneous and polluting a.f.v.s. Provide credible citations or leave. > places fully omnivores by all the evidence we have. Current epidemiological evidence indicates that ALL human "degenerative diseases" are caused by the consumption of animal corpses. TCCampbell; The China Study http://tinyurl.com/2v689m video http://tinyurl.com/6lcda6 "We" have evidence that you choose to ignore after being directed to it repeatedly. I interpret that behavior as intentional disruption of a.f.v.s. and that WILL NOT be tolerated. Today is Aug 16; this is your LAST warning. Further intentional disruptions, as revealed by your msg date/time stamp, of a.f.v.s will be met with serious consequences. Have a nice day! Laurie Forti Moderator a.f.v.s. |
Posted to alt.food.vegan.science,alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian
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Some real scientific information on raw vegan diets
Oh, laurie, you are still here!
" There is NO evidence to support your unstated assertion that humans "evolved" to successfully consume dead, rotting animal corpses. There" It happened, but I made no such claim,ie. it is a strawman argument. > To the best of my knowledge this is factual in all respects. "That's the problem, isn't it? Your "knowledge " is erroneous and polluting a.f.v.s. Provide credible citations or leave." smile, nope, ain't gonna go except when I choose, chain jerking is too much fun. > places fully omnivores by all the evidence we have. "Current epidemiological evidence indicates that ALL human "degenerative diseases" are caused by the consumption of animal corpses." India with relatively low meat use has the world's highest rate of diabetes and heart disease and related metabolic "degenerative" disorders. Traditional eskimo diet mostly of meat had a low level of same. |
Posted to alt.food.vegan.science,alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian
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Some real scientific information on raw vegan diets
On Sat, 16 Aug 2008, Goo wrote:
wrote: >> Oh, laurie, you are still here! Laurie never was here, but Larry is back. >> " There is NO evidence to support your unstated assertion that humans >> "evolved" to successfully consume dead, rotting animal corpses. There" >> >> It happened, but I made no such claim,ie. it is a strawman argument. > >I'm not sure what larry forti means by "'evolved' to successfuly >consume". Do you think there's any chance that he is? >First of all, the predecessor homo species before homo >sapiens already scavenged meat, and "successfully" consumed it. There >*is*, indeed, evidence that early humans, and predecessor hominid >species, scavenged meat from animals. Archeologists and anthropologists >have found bones from large animals - too big for early humans and >hominids to have killed themselves - with characteristic marks on the >bones reflecting meat having been chipped away with stone tools. There is now even later evidence of meat being chipped away with metal tools, and then cooked on stoves and in microwaves... |
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