Vegan (alt.food.vegan) This newsgroup exists to share ideas and issues of concern among vegans. We are always happy to share our recipes- perhaps especially with omnivores who are simply curious- or even better, accomodating a vegan guest for a meal!

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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

How About A Side Of Hypocrisy
Fast Food | Charlottesville, VA, USA

Me: *preparing a gyro wrap for a customer* “Would you like cheese on
it?”

Customer: “Oh my God, no! I’m a VEGAN! Don’t you know what they do to
cows in those horrible farms? They force them to get pregnant all the
time, and then they take away their babies and kill them so we humans
can steal their milk! Dairy products are cruelty! ”

Me: “Okay, okay. No cheese. Moving along. What sauces would you like
on that?”

Customer: “Tzatziki sauce, please.”

(Note: the particular brand of tzatziki we purchased included both
yogurt and sour cream.)

Me: “Ah, I’m afraid that’s a dairy prod–”

Customer: “I DON’T CARE! PUT IT ON!”

http://notalwaysright.com/page/44
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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

On Aug 7, 2:23*am, Rudy Canoza > wrote:
> Dragonblaze wrote:
> > How About A Side Of Hypocrisy
> > Fast Food | Charlottesville, VA, USA

>
> > Me: *preparing a gyro wrap for a customer* “Would you like cheese on
> > it?”

>
> > Customer: “Oh my God, no! I’m a VEGAN! Don’t you know what they do to
> > cows in those horrible farms? They force them to get pregnant all the
> > time, and then they take away their babies and kill them so we humans
> > can steal their milk! Dairy products are cruelty! ”

>
> > Me: “Okay, okay. No cheese. Moving along. What sauces would you like
> > on that?”

>
> > Customer: “Tzatziki sauce, please.”

>
> > (Note: the particular brand of tzatziki we purchased included both
> > yogurt and sour cream.)

>
> > Me: “Ah, I’m afraid that’s a dairy prod–”

>
> > Customer: “I DON’T CARE! PUT IT ON!”

>
> >http://notalwaysright.com/page/44

>
> Not surprising in the least. *"veganism" is entirely incoherent. *It is
> merely a *pose* of moral superiority. *It's empty symbolism.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


The person described in the OP is not a vegan, you quarter-wit.

Veganism is not empty symbolism. A reduction in the demand for animal
products has outcomes which some people regard as good, and reasonably
so.

People do not become vegan so they can regard themselves as morally
superior to you. Being morally superior to you is an easy achievement,
there would be no need to go to that much trouble. They do it to help
animals.
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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

Rudy Canoza wrote:
> Rupert wrote:
>> On Aug 7, 2:23 am, Rudy Canoza > wrote:
>>> Dragonblaze wrote:
>>>> How About A Side Of Hypocrisy
>>>> Fast Food | Charlottesville, VA, USA
>>>> Me: *preparing a gyro wrap for a customer* “Would you like cheese on
>>>> it?”
>>>> Customer: “Oh my God, no! I’m a VEGAN! Don’t you know what they do to
>>>> cows in those horrible farms? They force them to get pregnant all the
>>>> time, and then they take away their babies and kill them so we humans
>>>> can steal their milk! Dairy products are cruelty! ”
>>>> Me: “Okay, okay. No cheese. Moving along. What sauces would you like
>>>> on that?”
>>>> Customer: “Tzatziki sauce, please.”
>>>> (Note: the particular brand of tzatziki we purchased included both
>>>> yogurt and sour cream.)
>>>> Me: “Ah, I’m afraid that’s a dairy prod–”
>>>> Customer: “I DON’T CARE! PUT IT ON!”
>>>> http://notalwaysright.com/page/44
>>> Not surprising in the least. "veganism" is entirely incoherent. It is
>>> merely a *pose* of moral superiority. It's empty symbolism.- Hide
>>> quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -

>
> Why do "- Hide quoted text -" and "- Show quoted text -" appear in all
> your posts, jerk-off? What are you ****ing up to make that happen?
> ****ing stop it, jerk-off.
>
>
>>
>> The person described in the OP is not a vegan,

>
> Ah, the good old "No true Scotsman" fallacy again! The original
> *poster* is not a "vegan", but the customer - the hypocritical, stupid
> "vegan" - described most definitely is a "vegan": she self-identified
> as one.


Vegans do consume dairy. The customer consumed dairy. Therefore the
consumer described by the OP is not a vegan.

BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.

>
>
>> Veganism is not empty symbolism.

>
> It is, indeed, nothing but empty symbolism, a mere gesture intended only
> to flatter the ego of the person making it.

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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

SystemX wrote:

> Vegans do consume dairy.


Even by their own lax standards, vegans cannot consume
dairy and still legitimately call themselves vegans.

> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.


That was redundant.
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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

Rudy Canoza wrote:
> SystemX wrote:
>> Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>> Rupert wrote:
>>>> On Aug 7, 2:23 am, Rudy Canoza > wrote:
>>>>> Dragonblaze wrote:
>>>>>> How About A Side Of Hypocrisy
>>>>>> Fast Food | Charlottesville, VA, USA
>>>>>> Me: *preparing a gyro wrap for a customer* “Would you like cheese on
>>>>>> it?”
>>>>>> Customer: “Oh my God, no! I’m a VEGAN! Don’t you know what they do to
>>>>>> cows in those horrible farms? They force them to get pregnant all the
>>>>>> time, and then they take away their babies and kill them so we humans
>>>>>> can steal their milk! Dairy products are cruelty! ”
>>>>>> Me: “Okay, okay. No cheese. Moving along. What sauces would you like
>>>>>> on that?”
>>>>>> Customer: “Tzatziki sauce, please.”
>>>>>> (Note: the particular brand of tzatziki we purchased included both
>>>>>> yogurt and sour cream.)
>>>>>> Me: “Ah, I’m afraid that’s a dairy prod–”
>>>>>> Customer: “I DON’T CARE! PUT IT ON!”
>>>>>> http://notalwaysright.com/page/44
>>>>> Not surprising in the least. "veganism" is entirely incoherent.
>>>>> It is
>>>>> merely a *pose* of moral superiority. It's empty symbolism.- Hide
>>>>> quoted text -
>>>>>
>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>
>>> Why do "- Hide quoted text -" and "- Show quoted text -" appear in
>>> all your posts, jerk-off? What are you ****ing up to make that
>>> happen? ****ing stop it, jerk-off.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> The person described in the OP is not a vegan,
>>>
>>> Ah, the good old "No true Scotsman" fallacy again! The original
>>> *poster* is not a "vegan", but the customer - the hypocritical,
>>> stupid "vegan" - described most definitely is a "vegan": she
>>> self-identified as one.

>>
>> Vegans do consume dairy. The customer consumed dairy. Therefore the
>> consumer described by the OP is not a vegan.

>
> You just contradicted yourself. You're slovenly.


True. I slipped up!
>
> The fact is, the customer, who described herself as "vegan", didn't know
> and continues not to know what the **** she's talking about.


True.

She isn't
> adhering to any ethical principles; she's merely following a "lifestyle"
> that includes a disgusting amount of self-congratulation and narcissism.


True.

> "veganism" is nothing but empty symbolism.


That does not follow.

>
>
>>
>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.

>
> The rest of us identify you as Shitbag.


LOL.

>
>
>>>> Veganism is not empty symbolism.
>>>
>>> It is, indeed, nothing but empty symbolism, a mere gesture intended
>>> only to flatter the ego of the person making it.



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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

Dutch wrote:
> SystemX wrote:
>
>> Vegans do consume dairy.

>
> Even by their own lax standards, vegans cannot consume dairy and still
> legitimately call themselves vegans.


I mad e a mistook. - A bad one - I missed the important word 'not'. I
guess you worked that out for yourself, but hey, why not score a point.

>
>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.

>
> That was redundant.


Just making a point that; self identification is not reliable
identification:

Rudy: "- described most definitely is a "vegan": she self-identified as
one. "
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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

Rudy Canoza wrote:
> SystemX wrote:
>> Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>> Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>>>> Rupert wrote:
>>>>>> On Aug 7, 2:23 am, Rudy Canoza > wrote:
>>>>>>> Dragonblaze wrote:
>>>>>>>> How About A Side Of Hypocrisy
>>>>>>>> Fast Food | Charlottesville, VA, USA
>>>>>>>> Me: *preparing a gyro wrap for a customer* “Would you like
>>>>>>>> cheese on
>>>>>>>> it?”
>>>>>>>> Customer: “Oh my God, no! I’m a VEGAN! Don’t you know what they
>>>>>>>> do to
>>>>>>>> cows in those horrible farms? They force them to get pregnant
>>>>>>>> all the
>>>>>>>> time, and then they take away their babies and kill them so we
>>>>>>>> humans
>>>>>>>> can steal their milk! Dairy products are cruelty! ”
>>>>>>>> Me: “Okay, okay. No cheese. Moving along. What sauces would you
>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>> on that?”
>>>>>>>> Customer: “Tzatziki sauce, please.”
>>>>>>>> (Note: the particular brand of tzatziki we purchased included both
>>>>>>>> yogurt and sour cream.)
>>>>>>>> Me: “Ah, I’m afraid that’s a dairy prod–”
>>>>>>>> Customer: “I DON’T CARE! PUT IT ON!”
>>>>>>>> http://notalwaysright.com/page/44
>>>>>>> Not surprising in the least. "veganism" is entirely incoherent.
>>>>>>> It is
>>>>>>> merely a *pose* of moral superiority. It's empty symbolism.-
>>>>>>> Hide quoted text -
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>>
>>>>> Why do "- Hide quoted text -" and "- Show quoted text -" appear in
>>>>> all your posts, jerk-off? What are you ****ing up to make that
>>>>> happen? ****ing stop it, jerk-off.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The person described in the OP is not a vegan,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ah, the good old "No true Scotsman" fallacy again! The original
>>>>> *poster* is not a "vegan", but the customer - the hypocritical,
>>>>> stupid "vegan" - described most definitely is a "vegan": she
>>>>> self-identified as one.
>>>>
>>>> Vegans do consume dairy. The customer consumed dairy. Therefore the
>>>> consumer described by the OP is not a vegan.
>>>
>>> You just contradicted yourself. You're slovenly.

>>
>> True. I slipped up!
>>>
>>> The fact is, the customer, who described herself as "vegan", didn't
>>> know and continues not to know what the **** she's talking about.

>>
>> True.
>>
>> She isn't
>>> adhering to any ethical principles; she's merely following a
>>> "lifestyle" that includes a disgusting amount of self-congratulation
>>> and narcissism.

>>
>> True.
>>
>>> "veganism" is nothing but empty symbolism.

>>
>> That does not follow.

>
> It's true all the same.


>I didn't claim it followed from the earlier
> statements.


The statement was part a paragraph; and as "A paragraph is a
self-contained unit of a discourse in writing dealing with a particular
point or idea" I took it as being part of that point or idea.

>In fact, the inconsistency of that self-described "vegan"
> customer is what follows from "veganism" being nothing but empty
> symbolism. If it /really/ were based on principles, she wouldn't have
> consumed the sauce.


She's not a vegan, she didn't follow any vegan principles. She was
someone who consumed dairy who called herself a vegan.

You seem to be purposely obfuscating a non vegan's action with veganism.


>
>
>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.
>>>
>>> The rest of us identify you as Shitbag.

>>
>> LOL.

>
> Yeah, you set yourself up for it. It was hilarious.


It was a LOL, I agree.
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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

Rudy Canoza wrote:
> SystemX wrote:
>> Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>> Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>>>> Rupert wrote:
>>>>>> On Aug 7, 2:23 am, Rudy Canoza > wrote:
>>>>>>> Dragonblaze wrote:
>>>>>>>> How About A Side Of Hypocrisy
>>>>>>>> Fast Food | Charlottesville, VA, USA
>>>>>>>> Me: *preparing a gyro wrap for a customer* “Would you like
>>>>>>>> cheese on
>>>>>>>> it?”
>>>>>>>> Customer: “Oh my God, no! I’m a VEGAN! Don’t you know what they
>>>>>>>> do to
>>>>>>>> cows in those horrible farms? They force them to get pregnant
>>>>>>>> all the
>>>>>>>> time, and then they take away their babies and kill them so we
>>>>>>>> humans
>>>>>>>> can steal their milk! Dairy products are cruelty! ”
>>>>>>>> Me: “Okay, okay. No cheese. Moving along. What sauces would you
>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>> on that?”
>>>>>>>> Customer: “Tzatziki sauce, please.”
>>>>>>>> (Note: the particular brand of tzatziki we purchased included both
>>>>>>>> yogurt and sour cream.)
>>>>>>>> Me: “Ah, I’m afraid that’s a dairy prod–”
>>>>>>>> Customer: “I DON’T CARE! PUT IT ON!”
>>>>>>>> http://notalwaysright.com/page/44
>>>>>>> Not surprising in the least. "veganism" is entirely incoherent.
>>>>>>> It is
>>>>>>> merely a *pose* of moral superiority. It's empty symbolism.-
>>>>>>> Hide quoted text -
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>>
>>>>> Why do "- Hide quoted text -" and "- Show quoted text -" appear in
>>>>> all your posts, jerk-off? What are you ****ing up to make that
>>>>> happen? ****ing stop it, jerk-off.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The person described in the OP is not a vegan,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ah, the good old "No true Scotsman" fallacy again! The original
>>>>> *poster* is not a "vegan", but the customer - the hypocritical,
>>>>> stupid "vegan" - described most definitely is a "vegan": she
>>>>> self-identified as one.
>>>>
>>>> Vegans do consume dairy. The customer consumed dairy. Therefore the
>>>> consumer described by the OP is not a vegan.
>>>
>>> You just contradicted yourself. You're slovenly.

>>
>> True. I slipped up!
>>>
>>> The fact is, the customer, who described herself as "vegan", didn't
>>> know and continues not to know what the **** she's talking about.

>>
>> True.
>>
>> She isn't
>>> adhering to any ethical principles; she's merely following a
>>> "lifestyle" that includes a disgusting amount of self-congratulation
>>> and narcissism.

>>
>> True.
>>
>>> "veganism" is nothing but empty symbolism.

>>
>> That does not follow.

>
> It's true all the same. I didn't claim it followed from the earlier
> statements. In fact, the inconsistency of that self-described "vegan"
> customer is what follows from "veganism" being nothing but empty
> symbolism. If it /really/ were based on principles, she wouldn't have
> consumed the sauce.
>
>
>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.
>>>
>>> The rest of us identify you as Shitbag.

>>
>> LOL.

>
> Yeah, you set yourself up for it. It was hilarious.


Just came across this:

http://www.natallnews.com/images/tea...rslaughter.wmv

It might make you laugh.
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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

SystemX wrote:
> Dutch wrote:
>> SystemX wrote:
>>
>>> Vegans do consume dairy.

>>
>> Even by their own lax standards, vegans cannot consume dairy and still
>> legitimately call themselves vegans.

>
> I mad e a mistook. - A bad one - I missed the important word 'not'. I
> guess you worked that out for yourself, but hey, why not score a point.
>
>>
>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.

>>
>> That was redundant.

>
> Just making a point that; self identification is not reliable
> identification:


You mean you don't identify yourself as God? You ought
to, we are all God.


>
> Rudy: "- described most definitely is a "vegan": she self-identified as
> one. "


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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

On Aug 7, 8:11*am, Rudy Canoza > wrote:
> Rupert wrote:
> > On Aug 7, 2:23 am, Rudy Canoza > wrote:
> >> Dragonblaze wrote:
> >>> How About A Side Of Hypocrisy
> >>> Fast Food | Charlottesville, VA, USA
> >>> Me: *preparing a gyro wrap for a customer* “Would you like cheese on
> >>> it?”
> >>> Customer: “Oh my God, no! I’m a VEGAN! Don’t you know what they do to
> >>> cows in those horrible farms? They force them to get pregnant all the
> >>> time, and then they take away their babies and kill them so we humans
> >>> can steal their milk! Dairy products are cruelty! ”
> >>> Me: “Okay, okay. No cheese. Moving along. What sauces would you like
> >>> on that?”
> >>> Customer: “Tzatziki sauce, please.”
> >>> (Note: the particular brand of tzatziki we purchased included both
> >>> yogurt and sour cream.)
> >>> Me: “Ah, I’m afraid that’s a dairy prod–”
> >>> Customer: “I DON’T CARE! PUT IT ON!”
> >>>http://notalwaysright.com/page/44
> >> Not surprising in the least. *"veganism" is entirely incoherent. *It is
> >> merely a *pose* of moral superiority. *It's empty symbolism.- Hide quoted text -

>
> >> - Show quoted text -

>
> Why do "- Hide quoted text -" and "- Show quoted text -" appear in all
> your posts, jerk-off? *What are you ****ing up to make that happen?
> ****ing stop it, jerk-off.
>


I don't know, Ball. I think it's some sort of bug in Google Groups, I
don't really think there's anything I can do about it short of
switching to another news server. I've subscribed to a news server and
I'm planning to download a newsreader when I get back to Shanghai. I
have to confess I am not especially fussed about whether it irritates
you or not.

>
>
> > The person described in the OP is not a vegan,

>
> Ah, the good old "No true Scotsman" fallacy again! *The original
> *poster* is not a "vegan", but the customer - the hypocritical, stupid
> "vegan" - described most definitely is a "vegan": *she self-identified
> as one.
>


Why would I even bother responding to such pitiful drivel?

> > Veganism is not empty symbolism.

>
> It is, indeed, nothing but empty symbolism, a mere gesture intended only
> to flatter the ego of the person making it.


Let me ask you something, Ball. Suppose that the proportion of vegans
in the Australian population went up to 10%, and that in consequence
there was a significant reduction in Australia's carbon emissions and
in the number of animals bred for use in factory-farms in Australia.
Would that lead you to revise your view that veganism is "empty
symbolism"?


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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

On Aug 8, 6:02*am, Rudy Canoza > wrote:
> SystemX wrote:
> > Rudy Canoza wrote:
> >> SystemX wrote:
> >>> Rudy Canoza wrote:
> >>>> SystemX wrote:
> >>>>> Rudy Canoza wrote:
> >>>>>> Rupert wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Aug 7, 2:23 am, Rudy Canoza > wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Dragonblaze wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> How About A Side Of Hypocrisy
> >>>>>>>>> Fast Food | Charlottesville, VA, USA
> >>>>>>>>> Me: *preparing a gyro wrap for a customer* “Would you like
> >>>>>>>>> cheese on
> >>>>>>>>> it?”
> >>>>>>>>> Customer: “Oh my God, no! I’m a VEGAN! Don’t you know what they
> >>>>>>>>> do to
> >>>>>>>>> cows in those horrible farms? They force them to get pregnant
> >>>>>>>>> all the
> >>>>>>>>> time, and then they take away their babies and kill them so we
> >>>>>>>>> humans
> >>>>>>>>> can steal their milk! Dairy products are cruelty! ”
> >>>>>>>>> Me: “Okay, okay. No cheese. Moving along. What sauces would you
> >>>>>>>>> like
> >>>>>>>>> on that?”
> >>>>>>>>> Customer: “Tzatziki sauce, please.”
> >>>>>>>>> (Note: the particular brand of tzatziki we purchased included both
> >>>>>>>>> yogurt and sour cream.)
> >>>>>>>>> Me: “Ah, I’m afraid that’s a dairy prod–”
> >>>>>>>>> Customer: “I DON’T CARE! PUT IT ON!”
> >>>>>>>>>http://notalwaysright.com/page/44
> >>>>>>>> Not surprising in the least. *"veganism" is entirely
> >>>>>>>> incoherent. *It is
> >>>>>>>> merely a *pose* of moral superiority. *It's empty symbolism.-
> >>>>>>>> Hide quoted text -

>
> >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -

>
> >>>>>> Why do "- Hide quoted text -" and "- Show quoted text -" appear in
> >>>>>> all your posts, jerk-off? *What are you ****ing up to make that
> >>>>>> happen? ****ing stop it, jerk-off.

>
> >>>>>>> The person described in the OP is not a vegan,

>
> >>>>>> Ah, the good old "No true Scotsman" fallacy again! *The original
> >>>>>> *poster* is not a "vegan", but the customer - the hypocritical,
> >>>>>> stupid "vegan" - described most definitely is a "vegan": *she
> >>>>>> self-identified as one.

>
> >>>>> Vegans do consume dairy. The customer consumed dairy. Therefore the
> >>>>> consumer described by the OP is not a vegan.

>
> >>>> You just contradicted yourself. *You're slovenly.

>
> >>> True. I slipped up!

>
> >>>> The fact is, the customer, who described herself as "vegan", didn't
> >>>> know and continues not to know what the **** she's talking about. *

>
> >>> True.

>
> >>> She isn't
> >>>> adhering to any ethical principles; she's merely following a
> >>>> "lifestyle" that includes a disgusting amount of self-congratulation
> >>>> and narcissism.

>
> >>> True.

>
> >>>> *"veganism" is nothing but empty symbolism.

>
> >>> That does not follow.

>
> >> It's true all the same. *

>
> >> I didn't claim it followed from the earlier statements. *

>
> > The statement was part a paragraph; and as "A paragraph is a
> > self-contained unit of a discourse in writing dealing with a particular
> > point or idea" I took it as being part of that point or idea.

>
> They are all related points, but there is no requirement, nor is there
> any implication, that the ending sentence follows logically from those
> that precede it. *You need to learn how to read better.
>
>
>
> >> In fact, the inconsistency of that self-described "vegan" customer is
> >> what follows from "veganism" being nothing but empty symbolism. *If it
> >> /really/ were based on principles, she wouldn't have consumed the sauce.

>
> > She's not a vegan,

>
> She says she is. *She objected to the cheese because it was an
> animal-derived product.
>
> > she didn't follow any vegan principles.

>
> She can't - there aren't any.
>
> > She was someone who consumed dairy who called herself a vegan.

>
> All "vegans" consume animal parts; they just don't always know it.
>


I would say that some vegans succeed in completely avoiding any foods
that contain animal-derived ingredients. If you're talking about
consumption across the board, then I would agree, complete success is
probably rare or non-existent.

The point is that someone who knowingly buys a dairy product is not a
vegan.

>
>
> > You seem to be purposely obfuscating a non vegan's action with veganism..

>
> No, not in any way.
>
>
>
> >>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.

>
> >>>> The rest of us identify you as Shitbag.

>
> >>> LOL.

>
> >> Yeah, you set yourself up for it. *It was hilarious.

>
> > It was a LOL, I agree.

>
> But the correction stands.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

Dutch wrote:
> SystemX wrote:
>> Dutch wrote:
>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>
>>>> Vegans do consume dairy.
>>>
>>> Even by their own lax standards, vegans cannot consume dairy and
>>> still legitimately call themselves vegans.

>>
>> I mad e a mistook. - A bad one - I missed the important word 'not'. I
>> guess you worked that out for yourself, but hey, why not score a point.
>>
>>>
>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.
>>>
>>> That was redundant.

>>
>> Just making a point that; self identification is not reliable
>> identification:

>
> You mean you don't identify yourself as God?


Including animals?

>You ought to, we are all God.


I don't believe in God. I seem to hover between being an agnostic and an
atheist.


>
>
>>
>> Rudy: "- described most definitely is a "vegan": she self-identified
>> as one. "

>

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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

SystemX wrote:
> Rudy Canoza wrote:
>> SystemX wrote:
>>> Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>> Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>>>>> Rupert wrote:
>>>>>>> On Aug 7, 2:23 am, Rudy Canoza > wrote:
>>>>>>>> Dragonblaze wrote:
>>>>>>>>> How About A Side Of Hypocrisy
>>>>>>>>> Fast Food | Charlottesville, VA, USA
>>>>>>>>> Me: *preparing a gyro wrap for a customer* “Would you like
>>>>>>>>> cheese on
>>>>>>>>> it?”
>>>>>>>>> Customer: “Oh my God, no! I’m a VEGAN! Don’t you know what they
>>>>>>>>> do to
>>>>>>>>> cows in those horrible farms? They force them to get pregnant
>>>>>>>>> all the
>>>>>>>>> time, and then they take away their babies and kill them so we
>>>>>>>>> humans
>>>>>>>>> can steal their milk! Dairy products are cruelty! ”
>>>>>>>>> Me: “Okay, okay. No cheese. Moving along. What sauces would you
>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>> on that?”
>>>>>>>>> Customer: “Tzatziki sauce, please.”
>>>>>>>>> (Note: the particular brand of tzatziki we purchased included both
>>>>>>>>> yogurt and sour cream.)
>>>>>>>>> Me: “Ah, I’m afraid that’s a dairy prod–”
>>>>>>>>> Customer: “I DON’T CARE! PUT IT ON!”
>>>>>>>>> http://notalwaysright.com/page/44
>>>>>>>> Not surprising in the least. "veganism" is entirely
>>>>>>>> incoherent. It is
>>>>>>>> merely a *pose* of moral superiority. It's empty symbolism.-
>>>>>>>> Hide quoted text -
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why do "- Hide quoted text -" and "- Show quoted text -" appear in
>>>>>> all your posts, jerk-off? What are you ****ing up to make that
>>>>>> happen? ****ing stop it, jerk-off.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The person described in the OP is not a vegan,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ah, the good old "No true Scotsman" fallacy again! The original
>>>>>> *poster* is not a "vegan", but the customer - the hypocritical,
>>>>>> stupid "vegan" - described most definitely is a "vegan": she
>>>>>> self-identified as one.
>>>>>
>>>>> Vegans do consume dairy. The customer consumed dairy. Therefore the
>>>>> consumer described by the OP is not a vegan.
>>>>
>>>> You just contradicted yourself. You're slovenly.
>>>
>>> True. I slipped up!
>>>>
>>>> The fact is, the customer, who described herself as "vegan", didn't
>>>> know and continues not to know what the **** she's talking about.
>>>
>>> True.
>>>
>>> She isn't
>>>> adhering to any ethical principles; she's merely following a
>>>> "lifestyle" that includes a disgusting amount of self-congratulation
>>>> and narcissism.
>>>
>>> True.
>>>
>>>> "veganism" is nothing but empty symbolism.
>>>
>>> That does not follow.

>>
>> It's true all the same. I didn't claim it followed from the earlier
>> statements. In fact, the inconsistency of that self-described "vegan"
>> customer is what follows from "veganism" being nothing but empty
>> symbolism. If it /really/ were based on principles, she wouldn't have
>> consumed the sauce.
>>
>>
>>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.
>>>>
>>>> The rest of us identify you as Shitbag.
>>>
>>> LOL.

>>
>> Yeah, you set yourself up for it. It was hilarious.

>
> Just came across this:
>
> http://www.natallnews.com/images/tea...rslaughter.wmv
>
> It might make you laugh.


Anyone?
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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

SystemX wrote:
> Dutch wrote:
>> SystemX wrote:
>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Vegans do consume dairy.
>>>>
>>>> Even by their own lax standards, vegans cannot consume dairy and
>>>> still legitimately call themselves vegans.
>>>
>>> I mad e a mistook. - A bad one - I missed the important word 'not'. I
>>> guess you worked that out for yourself, but hey, why not score a point.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.
>>>>
>>>> That was redundant.
>>>
>>> Just making a point that; self identification is not reliable
>>> identification:

>>
>> You mean you don't identify yourself as God?

>
> Including animals?


This is related to your statement about "we are all God".

>
>> You ought to, we are all God.

>
> I don't believe in God. I seem to hover between being an agnostic and an
> atheist.
>
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Rudy: "- described most definitely is a "vegan": she self-identified
>>> as one. "

>>

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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

Rudy Canoza wrote:
> SystemX wrote:
>> SystemX wrote:
>>> Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>> Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>> Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>>>>>>> Rupert wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Aug 7, 2:23 am, Rudy Canoza > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Dragonblaze wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> How About A Side Of Hypocrisy
>>>>>>>>>>> Fast Food | Charlottesville, VA, USA
>>>>>>>>>>> Me: *preparing a gyro wrap for a customer* “Would you like
>>>>>>>>>>> cheese on
>>>>>>>>>>> it?”
>>>>>>>>>>> Customer: “Oh my God, no! I’m a VEGAN! Don’t you know what
>>>>>>>>>>> they do to
>>>>>>>>>>> cows in those horrible farms? They force them to get pregnant
>>>>>>>>>>> all the
>>>>>>>>>>> time, and then they take away their babies and kill them so
>>>>>>>>>>> we humans
>>>>>>>>>>> can steal their milk! Dairy products are cruelty! ”
>>>>>>>>>>> Me: “Okay, okay. No cheese. Moving along. What sauces would
>>>>>>>>>>> you like
>>>>>>>>>>> on that?”
>>>>>>>>>>> Customer: “Tzatziki sauce, please.”
>>>>>>>>>>> (Note: the particular brand of tzatziki we purchased included
>>>>>>>>>>> both
>>>>>>>>>>> yogurt and sour cream.)
>>>>>>>>>>> Me: “Ah, I’m afraid that’s a dairy prod–”
>>>>>>>>>>> Customer: “I DON’T CARE! PUT IT ON!”
>>>>>>>>>>> http://notalwaysright.com/page/44
>>>>>>>>>> Not surprising in the least. "veganism" is entirely
>>>>>>>>>> incoherent. It is
>>>>>>>>>> merely a *pose* of moral superiority. It's empty symbolism.-
>>>>>>>>>> Hide quoted text -
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why do "- Hide quoted text -" and "- Show quoted text -" appear
>>>>>>>> in all your posts, jerk-off? What are you ****ing up to make
>>>>>>>> that happen? ****ing stop it, jerk-off.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The person described in the OP is not a vegan,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ah, the good old "No true Scotsman" fallacy again! The original
>>>>>>>> *poster* is not a "vegan", but the customer - the hypocritical,
>>>>>>>> stupid "vegan" - described most definitely is a "vegan": she
>>>>>>>> self-identified as one.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Vegans do consume dairy. The customer consumed dairy. Therefore
>>>>>>> the consumer described by the OP is not a vegan.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You just contradicted yourself. You're slovenly.
>>>>>
>>>>> True. I slipped up!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The fact is, the customer, who described herself as "vegan",
>>>>>> didn't know and continues not to know what the **** she's talking
>>>>>> about.
>>>>>
>>>>> True.
>>>>>
>>>>> She isn't
>>>>>> adhering to any ethical principles; she's merely following a
>>>>>> "lifestyle" that includes a disgusting amount of
>>>>>> self-congratulation and narcissism.
>>>>>
>>>>> True.
>>>>>
>>>>>> "veganism" is nothing but empty symbolism.
>>>>>
>>>>> That does not follow.
>>>>
>>>> It's true all the same. I didn't claim it followed from the earlier
>>>> statements. In fact, the inconsistency of that self-described
>>>> "vegan" customer is what follows from "veganism" being nothing but
>>>> empty symbolism. If it /really/ were based on principles, she
>>>> wouldn't have consumed the sauce.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The rest of us identify you as Shitbag.
>>>>>
>>>>> LOL.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, you set yourself up for it. It was hilarious.
>>>
>>> Just came across this:
>>>
>>> http://www.natallnews.com/images/tea...rslaughter.wmv
>>>
>>> It might make you laugh.

>>
>> Anyone?

>
> Sorry - it wanted to download and open something, and I don't do that
> from usenet links


What about trying the direct "Watch the video here" link from:

http://www.natallnews.com/page.php?id=18

It should open up in your default media player.

You could also download it, scan with your virus scanner before watching it.

If don't want to watch it, just say.




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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

Rudy Canoza wrote:
> SystemX wrote:
>> SystemX wrote:
>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Vegans do consume dairy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Even by their own lax standards, vegans cannot consume dairy and
>>>>>> still legitimately call themselves vegans.
>>>>>
>>>>> I mad e a mistook. - A bad one - I missed the important word 'not'.
>>>>> I guess you worked that out for yourself, but hey, why not score a
>>>>> point.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That was redundant.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just making a point that; self identification is not reliable
>>>>> identification:
>>>>
>>>> You mean you don't identify yourself as God?
>>>
>>> Including animals?

>>
>> This is related to your statement about "we are all God".

>
> I think it was clear Dutch was restricting "we" to humans.


"We" humans is probable, but "we" beings is not impossible.

As you appear to be responding for Dutch; Why restrict it to humans?


>
>>
>>>
>>>> You ought to, we are all God.
>>>
>>> I don't believe in God. I seem to hover between being an agnostic and
>>> an atheist.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rudy: "- described most definitely is a "vegan": she
>>>>> self-identified as one. "
>>>>

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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

Rudy Canoza wrote:
> SystemX wrote:
>> Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>> Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>> Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Rupert wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 7, 2:23 am, Rudy Canoza >
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dragonblaze wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> How About A Side Of Hypocrisy
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fast Food | Charlottesville, VA, USA
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Me: *preparing a gyro wrap for a customer* “Would you like
>>>>>>>>>>>>> cheese on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it?”
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Customer: “Oh my God, no! I’m a VEGAN! Don’t you know what
>>>>>>>>>>>>> they do to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> cows in those horrible farms? They force them to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>> pregnant all the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> time, and then they take away their babies and kill them so
>>>>>>>>>>>>> we humans
>>>>>>>>>>>>> can steal their milk! Dairy products are cruelty! ”
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Me: “Okay, okay. No cheese. Moving along. What sauces would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you like
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on that?”
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Customer: “Tzatziki sauce, please.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Note: the particular brand of tzatziki we purchased
>>>>>>>>>>>>> included both
>>>>>>>>>>>>> yogurt and sour cream.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Me: “Ah, I’m afraid that’s a dairy prod–”
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Customer: “I DON’T CARE! PUT IT ON!”
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://notalwaysright.com/page/44
>>>>>>>>>>>> Not surprising in the least. "veganism" is entirely
>>>>>>>>>>>> incoherent. It is
>>>>>>>>>>>> merely a *pose* of moral superiority. It's empty
>>>>>>>>>>>> symbolism.- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why do "- Hide quoted text -" and "- Show quoted text -"
>>>>>>>>>> appear in all your posts, jerk-off? What are you ****ing up
>>>>>>>>>> to make that happen? ****ing stop it, jerk-off.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The person described in the OP is not a vegan,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ah, the good old "No true Scotsman" fallacy again! The
>>>>>>>>>> original *poster* is not a "vegan", but the customer - the
>>>>>>>>>> hypocritical, stupid "vegan" - described most definitely is a
>>>>>>>>>> "vegan": she self-identified as one.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Vegans do consume dairy. The customer consumed dairy. Therefore
>>>>>>>>> the consumer described by the OP is not a vegan.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You just contradicted yourself. You're slovenly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> True. I slipped up!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The fact is, the customer, who described herself as "vegan",
>>>>>>>> didn't know and continues not to know what the **** she's
>>>>>>>> talking about.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> True.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> She isn't
>>>>>>>> adhering to any ethical principles; she's merely following a
>>>>>>>> "lifestyle" that includes a disgusting amount of
>>>>>>>> self-congratulation and narcissism.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> True.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "veganism" is nothing but empty symbolism.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That does not follow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's true all the same. I didn't claim it followed from the
>>>>>> earlier statements. In fact, the inconsistency of that
>>>>>> self-described "vegan" customer is what follows from "veganism"
>>>>>> being nothing but empty symbolism. If it /really/ were based on
>>>>>> principles, she wouldn't have consumed the sauce.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The rest of us identify you as Shitbag.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LOL.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah, you set yourself up for it. It was hilarious.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just came across this:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.natallnews.com/images/tea...rslaughter.wmv
>>>>>
>>>>> It might make you laugh.
>>>>
>>>> Anyone?
>>>
>>> Sorry - it wanted to download and open something, and I don't do that
>>> from usenet links

>>
>> What about trying the direct "Watch the video here" link from:
>>
>> http://www.natallnews.com/page.php?id=18
>>
>> It should open up in your default media player.
>>
>> You could also download it, scan with your virus scanner before
>> watching it.
>>
>> If don't want to watch it, just say.

>
> Okay, there's a still pic there and I get the idea.


The picture is not part of the video.

The video was about cows being turned upside down in a restraining
device, their throats cut and trachea cur from their neck and allowed to
dangle from the wound. The cows were then immediately uprighted and
allowed to bleed to death, all staggering to their feet clearly
conscious and in distress. If that wasn't bad enough one worker was
kicking blood into one of the cows faces.

>So why did you say
> that it might make someone laugh?


Sarcasm mainly.
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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

SystemX wrote:
> Dutch wrote:
>> SystemX wrote:
>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Vegans do consume dairy.
>>>>
>>>> Even by their own lax standards, vegans cannot consume dairy and
>>>> still legitimately call themselves vegans.
>>>
>>> I mad e a mistook. - A bad one - I missed the important word 'not'. I
>>> guess you worked that out for yourself, but hey, why not score a point.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.
>>>>
>>>> That was redundant.
>>>
>>> Just making a point that; self identification is not reliable
>>> identification:

>>
>> You mean you don't identify yourself as God?

>
> Including animals?


All things, flowers, animals.

>> You ought to, we are all God.

>
> I don't believe in God. I seem to hover between being an agnostic and an
> atheist.


I don't "believe in God" in the conventional sense
either, but, how to put it.. there is a powerful force
in the universe intelligent beyond all comprehension
constantly manifesting itself in a multitude of ways,
the most advanced of these being the self-aware human
being. That force is living in each of us, it is in a
very basic sense "who we are". I believe this is what
is behind the spiritual teachings and the original
meaning of God.
>
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Rudy: "- described most definitely is a "vegan": she self-identified
>>> as one. "

>>

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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

SystemX wrote:
> SystemX wrote:
>> Dutch wrote:
>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Vegans do consume dairy.
>>>>>
>>>>> Even by their own lax standards, vegans cannot consume dairy and
>>>>> still legitimately call themselves vegans.
>>>>
>>>> I mad e a mistook. - A bad one - I missed the important word 'not'.
>>>> I guess you worked that out for yourself, but hey, why not score a
>>>> point.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.
>>>>>
>>>>> That was redundant.
>>>>
>>>> Just making a point that; self identification is not reliable
>>>> identification:
>>>
>>> You mean you don't identify yourself as God?

>>
>> Including animals?

>
> This is related to your statement about "we are all God".


I figured that. Every plant, animal, even things that
seem inert to us are manifestations of a universal
force. A rock is 99% empty space, the other 1% is
comprised of spinning particles, miniature galaxies.
Its apparent solid form is simply a limitation of our
powers of perception.


>
>>
>>> You ought to, we are all God.

>>
>> I don't believe in God. I seem to hover between being an agnostic and
>> an atheist.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rudy: "- described most definitely is a "vegan": she
>>>> self-identified as one. "
>>>

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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

Rudy Canoza wrote:
> SystemX wrote:
>> SystemX wrote:
>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Vegans do consume dairy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Even by their own lax standards, vegans cannot consume dairy and
>>>>>> still legitimately call themselves vegans.
>>>>>
>>>>> I mad e a mistook. - A bad one - I missed the important word 'not'.
>>>>> I guess you worked that out for yourself, but hey, why not score a
>>>>> point.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That was redundant.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just making a point that; self identification is not reliable
>>>>> identification:
>>>>
>>>> You mean you don't identify yourself as God?
>>>
>>> Including animals?

>>
>> This is related to your statement about "we are all God".

>
> I think it was clear Dutch was restricting "we" to humans.


In the way I used the term I meant everything, not
only humans, not only animals and plants, everything.

In this sense God is the organizing force in all
matter and life, humans being the most ambitious
manifestation of that force.


>
>>
>>>
>>>> You ought to, we are all God.
>>>
>>> I don't believe in God. I seem to hover between being an agnostic and
>>> an atheist.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rudy: "- described most definitely is a "vegan": she
>>>>> self-identified as one. "
>>>>



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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

Dutch wrote:
> Rudy Canoza wrote:
>> SystemX wrote:
>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Vegans do consume dairy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Even by their own lax standards, vegans cannot consume dairy and
>>>>>>> still legitimately call themselves vegans.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I mad e a mistook. - A bad one - I missed the important word
>>>>>> 'not'. I guess you worked that out for yourself, but hey, why not
>>>>>> score a point.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That was redundant.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just making a point that; self identification is not reliable
>>>>>> identification:
>>>>>
>>>>> You mean you don't identify yourself as God?
>>>>
>>>> Including animals?
>>>
>>> This is related to your statement about "we are all God".

>>
>> I think it was clear Dutch was restricting "we" to humans.

>
> In the way I used the term I meant everything, not only humans, not only
> animals and plants, everything.
>
> In this sense God is the organizing force in all matter and life, humans
> being the most ambitious manifestation of that force.


There is no 'force'. It is entirely evolutionary.


>
>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> You ought to, we are all God.
>>>>
>>>> I don't believe in God. I seem to hover between being an agnostic
>>>> and an atheist.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rudy: "- described most definitely is a "vegan": she
>>>>>> self-identified as one. "
>>>>>

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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

Dutch wrote:
> SystemX wrote:
>> Dutch wrote:
>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Vegans do consume dairy.
>>>>>
>>>>> Even by their own lax standards, vegans cannot consume dairy and
>>>>> still legitimately call themselves vegans.
>>>>
>>>> I mad e a mistook. - A bad one - I missed the important word 'not'.
>>>> I guess you worked that out for yourself, but hey, why not score a
>>>> point.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.
>>>>>
>>>>> That was redundant.
>>>>
>>>> Just making a point that; self identification is not reliable
>>>> identification:
>>>
>>> You mean you don't identify yourself as God?

>>
>> Including animals?

>
> All things, flowers, animals.
>
>>> You ought to, we are all God.

>>
>> I don't believe in God. I seem to hover between being an agnostic and
>> an atheist.

>
> I don't "believe in God" in the conventional sense either, but, how to
> put it.. there is a powerful force in the universe intelligent beyond
> all comprehension constantly manifesting itself in a multitude of ways,
> the most advanced of these being the self-aware human being. That force
> is living in each of us, it is in a very basic sense "who we are". I
> believe this is what is behind the spiritual teachings and the original
> meaning of God.


Stop dreaming.

We are nothing but animals on a planet.


>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rudy: "- described most definitely is a "vegan": she
>>>> self-identified as one. "
>>>

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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

Dutch wrote:
> SystemX wrote:
>> SystemX wrote:
>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Vegans do consume dairy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Even by their own lax standards, vegans cannot consume dairy and
>>>>>> still legitimately call themselves vegans.
>>>>>
>>>>> I mad e a mistook. - A bad one - I missed the important word 'not'.
>>>>> I guess you worked that out for yourself, but hey, why not score a
>>>>> point.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That was redundant.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just making a point that; self identification is not reliable
>>>>> identification:
>>>>
>>>> You mean you don't identify yourself as God?
>>>
>>> Including animals?

>>
>> This is related to your statement about "we are all God".

>
> I figured that. Every plant, animal, even things that seem inert to us
> are manifestations of a universal force. A rock is 99% empty space, the
> other 1% is comprised of spinning particles, miniature galaxies. Its
> apparent solid form is simply a limitation of our powers of perception.
>


Perhaps your understanding of animals is limited by your power of
perception.

I get the feeling you're confused, perhaps indoctrinated.



>
>>
>>>
>>>> You ought to, we are all God.
>>>
>>> I don't believe in God. I seem to hover between being an agnostic and
>>> an atheist.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rudy: "- described most definitely is a "vegan": she
>>>>> self-identified as one. "
>>>>

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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

SystemX wrote:
> Dutch wrote:
>> Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Vegans do consume dairy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Even by their own lax standards, vegans cannot consume dairy and
>>>>>>>> still legitimately call themselves vegans.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I mad e a mistook. - A bad one - I missed the important word
>>>>>>> 'not'. I guess you worked that out for yourself, but hey, why not
>>>>>>> score a point.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That was redundant.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just making a point that; self identification is not reliable
>>>>>>> identification:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You mean you don't identify yourself as God?
>>>>>
>>>>> Including animals?
>>>>
>>>> This is related to your statement about "we are all God".
>>>
>>> I think it was clear Dutch was restricting "we" to humans.

>>
>> In the way I used the term I meant everything, not only humans, not
>> only animals and plants, everything.
>>
>> In this sense God is the organizing force in all matter and life,
>> humans being the most ambitious manifestation of that force.

>
> There is no 'force'.


No force? That is hardly a plausible response. At the
very least there are many forces operating
independently. There's a force in you that gets you up
in the morning.

> It is entirely evolutionary.


What is "it"? I didn't say anything about development
of species. Question, why does life bother to occur?
Why does lichen live on high mountain ridges where it
is -100 degrees with almost no air? Why do animals
struggle to live in Antarctic winter? Why do flowers
bloom? Seems like a lot of trouble just to die a short
time later. What is driving all this frenetic
activity? Seems to me like there is some kind of
driving force.


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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

SystemX wrote:
> Dutch wrote:
>> SystemX wrote:
>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Vegans do consume dairy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Even by their own lax standards, vegans cannot consume dairy and
>>>>>> still legitimately call themselves vegans.
>>>>>
>>>>> I mad e a mistook. - A bad one - I missed the important word 'not'.
>>>>> I guess you worked that out for yourself, but hey, why not score a
>>>>> point.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That was redundant.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just making a point that; self identification is not reliable
>>>>> identification:
>>>>
>>>> You mean you don't identify yourself as God?
>>>
>>> Including animals?

>>
>> All things, flowers, animals.
>>
>>>> You ought to, we are all God.
>>>
>>> I don't believe in God. I seem to hover between being an agnostic and
>>> an atheist.

>>
>> I don't "believe in God" in the conventional sense either, but, how to
>> put it.. there is a powerful force in the universe intelligent beyond
>> all comprehension constantly manifesting itself in a multitude of
>> ways, the most advanced of these being the self-aware human being.
>> That force is living in each of us, it is in a very basic sense "who
>> we are". I believe this is what is behind the spiritual teachings and
>> the original meaning of God.

>
> Stop dreaming.
>
> We are nothing but animals on a planet.
>


That's a pretty blasé perspective. Whatever floats
your boat though..


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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

SystemX wrote:
> Dutch wrote:
>> SystemX wrote:
>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Vegans do consume dairy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Even by their own lax standards, vegans cannot consume dairy and
>>>>>>> still legitimately call themselves vegans.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I mad e a mistook. - A bad one - I missed the important word
>>>>>> 'not'. I guess you worked that out for yourself, but hey, why not
>>>>>> score a point.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That was redundant.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just making a point that; self identification is not reliable
>>>>>> identification:
>>>>>
>>>>> You mean you don't identify yourself as God?
>>>>
>>>> Including animals?
>>>
>>> This is related to your statement about "we are all God".

>>
>> I figured that. Every plant, animal, even things that seem inert to us
>> are manifestations of a universal force. A rock is 99% empty space,
>> the other 1% is comprised of spinning particles, miniature galaxies.
>> Its apparent solid form is simply a limitation of our powers of
>> perception.
>>

>
> Perhaps your understanding of animals is limited by your power of
> perception.


Of course, we only know the world through the filters
of our perception. How could it be otherwise?

>
> I get the feeling you're confused, perhaps indoctrinated.


Ahh, out come the daggers, I must have hit a nerve.

Perhaps your "self-indoctrination" as an
agnostic-atheist is causing internal distress?


>
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> You ought to, we are all God.
>>>>
>>>> I don't believe in God. I seem to hover between being an agnostic
>>>> and an atheist.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rudy: "- described most definitely is a "vegan": she
>>>>>> self-identified as one. "
>>>>>

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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

Dutch wrote:
> SystemX wrote:
>> Dutch wrote:
>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Vegans do consume dairy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Even by their own lax standards, vegans cannot consume dairy and
>>>>>>> still legitimately call themselves vegans.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I mad e a mistook. - A bad one - I missed the important word
>>>>>> 'not'. I guess you worked that out for yourself, but hey, why not
>>>>>> score a point.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That was redundant.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just making a point that; self identification is not reliable
>>>>>> identification:
>>>>>
>>>>> You mean you don't identify yourself as God?
>>>>
>>>> Including animals?
>>>
>>> All things, flowers, animals.
>>>
>>>>> You ought to, we are all God.
>>>>
>>>> I don't believe in God. I seem to hover between being an agnostic
>>>> and an atheist.
>>>
>>> I don't "believe in God" in the conventional sense either, but, how
>>> to put it.. there is a powerful force in the universe intelligent
>>> beyond all comprehension constantly manifesting itself in a multitude
>>> of ways, the most advanced of these being the self-aware human being.
>>> That force is living in each of us, it is in a very basic sense "who
>>> we are". I believe this is what is behind the spiritual teachings and
>>> the original meaning of God.

>>
>> Stop dreaming.
>>
>> We are nothing but animals on a planet.
>>

>
> That's a pretty blasé perspective. Whatever floats your boat though..


Nothing blasé about fact.


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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

Dutch wrote:
> SystemX wrote:
>> Dutch wrote:
>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Vegans do consume dairy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Even by their own lax standards, vegans cannot consume dairy and
>>>>>>>> still legitimately call themselves vegans.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I mad e a mistook. - A bad one - I missed the important word
>>>>>>> 'not'. I guess you worked that out for yourself, but hey, why not
>>>>>>> score a point.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That was redundant.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just making a point that; self identification is not reliable
>>>>>>> identification:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You mean you don't identify yourself as God?
>>>>>
>>>>> Including animals?
>>>>
>>>> This is related to your statement about "we are all God".
>>>
>>> I figured that. Every plant, animal, even things that seem inert to
>>> us are manifestations of a universal force. A rock is 99% empty
>>> space, the other 1% is comprised of spinning particles, miniature
>>> galaxies. Its apparent solid form is simply a limitation of our
>>> powers of perception.
>>>

>>
>> Perhaps your understanding of animals is limited by your power of
>> perception.

>
> Of course, we only know the world through the filters of our perception.
> How could it be otherwise?
>
>>
>> I get the feeling you're confused, perhaps indoctrinated.

>
> Ahh, out come the daggers, I must have hit a nerve.


No. You seem confused, and seem to be balancing a view between their
being a God and not.

>
> Perhaps your "self-indoctrination" as an agnostic-atheist is causing
> internal distress?


Not really. I'm quite happy with my view. I'm not sitting on a fence.

>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> You ought to, we are all God.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't believe in God. I seem to hover between being an agnostic
>>>>> and an atheist.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rudy: "- described most definitely is a "vegan": she
>>>>>>> self-identified as one. "
>>>>>>

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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

Dutch wrote:
> SystemX wrote:
>> Dutch wrote:
>>> Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Vegans do consume dairy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Even by their own lax standards, vegans cannot consume dairy
>>>>>>>>> and still legitimately call themselves vegans.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I mad e a mistook. - A bad one - I missed the important word
>>>>>>>> 'not'. I guess you worked that out for yourself, but hey, why
>>>>>>>> not score a point.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That was redundant.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just making a point that; self identification is not reliable
>>>>>>>> identification:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You mean you don't identify yourself as God?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Including animals?
>>>>>
>>>>> This is related to your statement about "we are all God".
>>>>
>>>> I think it was clear Dutch was restricting "we" to humans.
>>>
>>> In the way I used the term I meant everything, not only humans, not
>>> only animals and plants, everything.
>>>
>>> In this sense God is the organizing force in all matter and life,
>>> humans being the most ambitious manifestation of that force.

>>
>> There is no 'force'.

>
> No force? That is hardly a plausible response. At the very least there
> are many forces operating independently. There's a force in you that
> gets you up in the morning.


No; there is no 'organising force'. There is no 'force' that gets me up
in the morning. (Apart from the PHYSICAL one that changes a body from a
state of rest to one of motion).

>
>> It is entirely evolutionary.

>
> What is "it"?


"life"

>I didn't say anything about development of species.


> Question, why does life bother to occur?


It doesn't 'bother' it just occurs.

>Why does lichen live on high
> mountain ridges where it is -100 degrees with almost no air? Why do
> animals struggle to live in Antarctic winter? Why do flowers bloom?


Try Wikipedia.

> Seems like a lot of trouble just to die a short time later. What is
> driving all this frenetic activity? Seems to me like there is some kind
> of driving force.


You are mistaken, possibly misled by those around you.

>
>

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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

SystemX wrote:
> Dutch wrote:
>> SystemX wrote:
>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Vegans do consume dairy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Even by their own lax standards, vegans cannot consume dairy and
>>>>>>>> still legitimately call themselves vegans.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I mad e a mistook. - A bad one - I missed the important word
>>>>>>> 'not'. I guess you worked that out for yourself, but hey, why not
>>>>>>> score a point.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That was redundant.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just making a point that; self identification is not reliable
>>>>>>> identification:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You mean you don't identify yourself as God?
>>>>>
>>>>> Including animals?
>>>>
>>>> All things, flowers, animals.
>>>>
>>>>>> You ought to, we are all God.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't believe in God. I seem to hover between being an agnostic
>>>>> and an atheist.
>>>>
>>>> I don't "believe in God" in the conventional sense either, but, how
>>>> to put it.. there is a powerful force in the universe intelligent
>>>> beyond all comprehension constantly manifesting itself in a
>>>> multitude of ways, the most advanced of these being the self-aware
>>>> human being. That force is living in each of us, it is in a very
>>>> basic sense "who we are". I believe this is what is behind the
>>>> spiritual teachings and the original meaning of God.
>>>
>>> Stop dreaming.
>>>
>>> We are nothing but animals on a planet.
>>>

>>
>> That's a pretty blasé perspective. Whatever floats your boat though..

>
> Nothing blasé about fact.
>
>


Facts aren't blasé, perspectives can be.


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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

SystemX wrote:
> Dutch wrote:
>> SystemX wrote:
>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Vegans do consume dairy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Even by their own lax standards, vegans cannot consume dairy
>>>>>>>>> and still legitimately call themselves vegans.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I mad e a mistook. - A bad one - I missed the important word
>>>>>>>> 'not'. I guess you worked that out for yourself, but hey, why
>>>>>>>> not score a point.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That was redundant.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just making a point that; self identification is not reliable
>>>>>>>> identification:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You mean you don't identify yourself as God?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Including animals?
>>>>>
>>>>> This is related to your statement about "we are all God".
>>>>
>>>> I figured that. Every plant, animal, even things that seem inert to
>>>> us are manifestations of a universal force. A rock is 99% empty
>>>> space, the other 1% is comprised of spinning particles, miniature
>>>> galaxies. Its apparent solid form is simply a limitation of our
>>>> powers of perception.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Perhaps your understanding of animals is limited by your power of
>>> perception.

>>
>> Of course, we only know the world through the filters of our
>> perception. How could it be otherwise?
>>
>>>
>>> I get the feeling you're confused, perhaps indoctrinated.

>>
>> Ahh, out come the daggers, I must have hit a nerve.

>
> No. You seem confused,


When contemplating the universe perhaps appearing
confused is a sign of wisdom. One of the new and
exciting principles of physics is uncertainty.

> and seem to be balancing a view between their
> being a God and not.


I think I stated my position quite clearly. I reject
"religion" per se, along with "worship" and most other
artifacts of conventional religion. But there is a
force underlying everything, far more powerful than
nuclear energy, and we are each manifestations of that
force. The idea that nothing we can't see does not
exist is simply naive. Quantum physics is exploring
whole new realms of reality.
>
>>
>> Perhaps your "self-indoctrination" as an agnostic-atheist is causing
>> internal distress?

>
> Not really. I'm quite happy with my view. I'm not sitting on a fence.


"I seem to hover between being an agnostic and an
atheist."
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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

SystemX wrote:
> Dutch wrote:
>> SystemX wrote:
>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>> Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Vegans do consume dairy.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Even by their own lax standards, vegans cannot consume dairy
>>>>>>>>>> and still legitimately call themselves vegans.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I mad e a mistook. - A bad one - I missed the important word
>>>>>>>>> 'not'. I guess you worked that out for yourself, but hey, why
>>>>>>>>> not score a point.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That was redundant.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just making a point that; self identification is not reliable
>>>>>>>>> identification:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You mean you don't identify yourself as God?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Including animals?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is related to your statement about "we are all God".
>>>>>
>>>>> I think it was clear Dutch was restricting "we" to humans.
>>>>
>>>> In the way I used the term I meant everything, not only humans, not
>>>> only animals and plants, everything.
>>>>
>>>> In this sense God is the organizing force in all matter and life,
>>>> humans being the most ambitious manifestation of that force.
>>>
>>> There is no 'force'.

>>
>> No force? That is hardly a plausible response. At the very least there
>> are many forces operating independently. There's a force in you that
>> gets you up in the morning.

>
> No; there is no 'organising force'. There is no 'force' that gets me up
> in the morning. (Apart from the PHYSICAL one that changes a body from a
> state of rest to one of motion).
>
>>
>>> It is entirely evolutionary.

>>
>> What is "it"?

>
> "life"


What is life? Show me. Isn't it a force?

>> I didn't say anything about development of species.

>
>> Question, why does life bother to occur?

>
> It doesn't 'bother' it just occurs.


Why?

>> Why does lichen live on high mountain ridges where it is -100 degrees
>> with almost no air? Why do animals struggle to live in Antarctic
>> winter? Why do flowers bloom?

>
> Try Wikipedia.


There will be metaphysical hypotheses that you would
reject.

>
>> Seems like a lot of trouble just to die a short time later. What is
>> driving all this frenetic activity? Seems to me like there is some
>> kind of driving force.

>
> You are mistaken,


How can you be so certain?

> possibly misled by those around you.


Where did you get the notions "atheism" and
"agnosticism"? Was it not "those around you"?


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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

Dutch wrote:
> SystemX wrote:
>> Dutch wrote:
>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Vegans do consume dairy.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Even by their own lax standards, vegans cannot consume dairy
>>>>>>>>>> and still legitimately call themselves vegans.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I mad e a mistook. - A bad one - I missed the important word
>>>>>>>>> 'not'. I guess you worked that out for yourself, but hey, why
>>>>>>>>> not score a point.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That was redundant.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just making a point that; self identification is not reliable
>>>>>>>>> identification:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You mean you don't identify yourself as God?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Including animals?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is related to your statement about "we are all God".
>>>>>
>>>>> I figured that. Every plant, animal, even things that seem inert to
>>>>> us are manifestations of a universal force. A rock is 99% empty
>>>>> space, the other 1% is comprised of spinning particles, miniature
>>>>> galaxies. Its apparent solid form is simply a limitation of our
>>>>> powers of perception.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps your understanding of animals is limited by your power of
>>>> perception.
>>>
>>> Of course, we only know the world through the filters of our
>>> perception. How could it be otherwise?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I get the feeling you're confused, perhaps indoctrinated.
>>>
>>> Ahh, out come the daggers, I must have hit a nerve.

>>
>> No. You seem confused,

>
> When contemplating the universe perhaps appearing confused is a sign of
> wisdom. One of the new and exciting principles of physics is uncertainty.
>
>> and seem to be balancing a view between their being a God and not.

>
> I think I stated my position quite clearly. I reject "religion" per se,
> along with "worship" and most other artifacts of conventional religion.
> But there is a force underlying everything, far more powerful than
> nuclear energy, and we are each manifestations of that force. The idea
> that nothing we can't see does not exist is simply naive. Quantum
> physics is exploring whole new realms of reality.


You now seem to be sifting your position from a God like "organising
force" to a physical one.


>>
>>>
>>> Perhaps your "self-indoctrination" as an agnostic-atheist is causing
>>> internal distress?

>>
>> Not really. I'm quite happy with my view. I'm not sitting on a fence.

>
> "I seem to hover between being an agnostic and an atheist."


Both are clearly on one side of the 'God fence'.
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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

Dutch wrote:
> SystemX wrote:
>> Dutch wrote:
>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Vegans do consume dairy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Even by their own lax standards, vegans cannot consume dairy
>>>>>>>>> and still legitimately call themselves vegans.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I mad e a mistook. - A bad one - I missed the important word
>>>>>>>> 'not'. I guess you worked that out for yourself, but hey, why
>>>>>>>> not score a point.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That was redundant.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just making a point that; self identification is not reliable
>>>>>>>> identification:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You mean you don't identify yourself as God?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Including animals?
>>>>>
>>>>> All things, flowers, animals.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> You ought to, we are all God.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't believe in God. I seem to hover between being an agnostic
>>>>>> and an atheist.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't "believe in God" in the conventional sense either, but, how
>>>>> to put it.. there is a powerful force in the universe intelligent
>>>>> beyond all comprehension constantly manifesting itself in a
>>>>> multitude of ways, the most advanced of these being the self-aware
>>>>> human being. That force is living in each of us, it is in a very
>>>>> basic sense "who we are". I believe this is what is behind the
>>>>> spiritual teachings and the original meaning of God.
>>>>
>>>> Stop dreaming.
>>>>
>>>> We are nothing but animals on a planet.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That's a pretty blasé perspective. Whatever floats your boat though..

>>
>> Nothing blasé about fact.
>>
>>

>
> Facts aren't blasé, perspectives can be.


It is a fact that "We are nothing but animals on a planet". What
evidence would lead you to come to a different perspective?

What evidence do you have for this wishy washy notion of God as an
"organising force"?
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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

Dutch wrote:
> SystemX wrote:
>> Dutch wrote:
>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>> Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Vegans do consume dairy.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Even by their own lax standards, vegans cannot consume dairy
>>>>>>>>>>> and still legitimately call themselves vegans.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I mad e a mistook. - A bad one - I missed the important word
>>>>>>>>>> 'not'. I guess you worked that out for yourself, but hey, why
>>>>>>>>>> not score a point.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That was redundant.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just making a point that; self identification is not reliable
>>>>>>>>>> identification:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You mean you don't identify yourself as God?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Including animals?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is related to your statement about "we are all God".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think it was clear Dutch was restricting "we" to humans.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the way I used the term I meant everything, not only humans, not
>>>>> only animals and plants, everything.
>>>>>
>>>>> In this sense God is the organizing force in all matter and life,
>>>>> humans being the most ambitious manifestation of that force.
>>>>
>>>> There is no 'force'.
>>>
>>> No force? That is hardly a plausible response. At the very least
>>> there are many forces operating independently. There's a force in you
>>> that gets you up in the morning.

>>
>> No; there is no 'organising force'. There is no 'force' that gets me
>> up in the morning. (Apart from the PHYSICAL one that changes a body
>> from a state of rest to one of motion).
>>
>>>
>>>> It is entirely evolutionary.
>>>
>>> What is "it"?

>>
>> "life"

>
> What is life? Show me. Isn't it a force?


Look in a mirror that is 'life'. No it's not an all encompassing
"organising force" that you originally mentioned.

>
>>> I didn't say anything about development of species.

>>
>>> Question, why does life bother to occur?

>>
>> It doesn't 'bother' it just occurs.

>
> Why?


There is no evidence of a 'bothering' 'organising force'.

>
>>> Why does lichen live on high mountain ridges where it is -100 degrees
>>> with almost no air? Why do animals struggle to live in Antarctic
>>> winter? Why do flowers bloom?

>>
>> Try Wikipedia.

>
> There will be metaphysical hypotheses that you would reject.


Of course I will reject some *hypotheses*. You seem to have a view of
some driving / organising force that has no basis in *fact*.

>
>>
>>> Seems like a lot of trouble just to die a short time later. What is
>>> driving all this frenetic activity? Seems to me like there is some
>>> kind of driving force.

>>
>> You are mistaken,

>
> How can you be so certain?


There is NO evidence of a 'driving force' NONE.

>
> > possibly misled by those around you.

>
> Where did you get the notions "atheism" and "agnosticism"? Was it not
> "those around you"?


I base my thoughts on facts, not some wishy washy notion of 'driving /
organising forces' that equate to some form of God.

What percentage of your friends and relations have belief in God?

>
>



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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

SystemX wrote:
> Dutch wrote:
>> SystemX wrote:
>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Vegans do consume dairy.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Even by their own lax standards, vegans cannot consume dairy
>>>>>>>>>>> and still legitimately call themselves vegans.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I mad e a mistook. - A bad one - I missed the important word
>>>>>>>>>> 'not'. I guess you worked that out for yourself, but hey, why
>>>>>>>>>> not score a point.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That was redundant.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just making a point that; self identification is not reliable
>>>>>>>>>> identification:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You mean you don't identify yourself as God?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Including animals?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is related to your statement about "we are all God".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I figured that. Every plant, animal, even things that seem inert
>>>>>> to us are manifestations of a universal force. A rock is 99% empty
>>>>>> space, the other 1% is comprised of spinning particles, miniature
>>>>>> galaxies. Its apparent solid form is simply a limitation of our
>>>>>> powers of perception.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps your understanding of animals is limited by your power of
>>>>> perception.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, we only know the world through the filters of our
>>>> perception. How could it be otherwise?
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I get the feeling you're confused, perhaps indoctrinated.
>>>>
>>>> Ahh, out come the daggers, I must have hit a nerve.
>>>
>>> No. You seem confused,

>>
>> When contemplating the universe perhaps appearing confused is a sign
>> of wisdom. One of the new and exciting principles of physics is
>> uncertainty.
>>
>>> and seem to be balancing a view between their being a God and not.

>>
>> I think I stated my position quite clearly. I reject "religion" per
>> se, along with "worship" and most other artifacts of conventional
>> religion. But there is a force underlying everything, far more
>> powerful than nuclear energy, and we are each manifestations of that
>> force. The idea that nothing we can't see does not exist is simply
>> naive. Quantum physics is exploring whole new realms of reality.

>
> You now seem to be sifting your position from a God like "organising
> force" to a physical one.


It's both and more. It is an organized, intelligent,
dynamic physical energy, just as we see manifested in
each living thing. I can see you struggling to fit
what I am saying into your existing paradigms. That's
natural. I am not attempting to convince you of
anything or make you "believe in" anything. I am
simply trying to convey my understanding of the nature
of reality. You said, "We're just animals on a
planet". I call that glib, we're much more than that.
First of all, we have the ability to be aware of
ourselves in a way that no other animal has. This
ability also allows us to contemplate reality and the
universe itself. That is "all" I am attempting to do.
You can go along for the ride or you can stay home.


>>>> Perhaps your "self-indoctrination" as an agnostic-atheist is causing
>>>> internal distress?
>>>
>>> Not really. I'm quite happy with my view. I'm not sitting on a fence.

>>
>> "I seem to hover between being an agnostic and an atheist."

>
> Both are clearly on one side of the 'God fence'.


Actually they are not. An agnostic by definition has
no opinion on "God", it's an open position. An atheist
has a definite belief that there is no God, or if you
prefer, a firm absence of God belief. Atheists can get
testy about being defined. My point was that while you
are accusing me of sitting on some fence, in fact you
have said explicitly that you yourself are hovering
between two very different "God belief" positions.
The fact is, ambivalence (confusion) about things
beyond our ability to prove or know is a sign of
wisdom, open-mindedness.

But you have misread my comments, I'm not talking
about "God belief", or any kind of belief. I am
attempting to put into words my perception of the
universe. Fundamental in that perception is that there
is a force that permeates all things, call it life if
you like. One can feel that force in oneself by being
still and focusing on the heat of the solar plexus.
The existence of this force has been warped into all
forms of bizarre religious beliefs.
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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

SystemX wrote:
> Dutch wrote:
>> SystemX wrote:
>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Vegans do consume dairy.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Even by their own lax standards, vegans cannot consume dairy
>>>>>>>>>> and still legitimately call themselves vegans.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I mad e a mistook. - A bad one - I missed the important word
>>>>>>>>> 'not'. I guess you worked that out for yourself, but hey, why
>>>>>>>>> not score a point.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That was redundant.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just making a point that; self identification is not reliable
>>>>>>>>> identification:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You mean you don't identify yourself as God?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Including animals?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All things, flowers, animals.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You ought to, we are all God.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't believe in God. I seem to hover between being an agnostic
>>>>>>> and an atheist.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't "believe in God" in the conventional sense either, but,
>>>>>> how to put it.. there is a powerful force in the universe
>>>>>> intelligent beyond all comprehension constantly manifesting itself
>>>>>> in a multitude of ways, the most advanced of these being the
>>>>>> self-aware human being. That force is living in each of us, it is
>>>>>> in a very basic sense "who we are". I believe this is what is
>>>>>> behind the spiritual teachings and the original meaning of God.
>>>>>
>>>>> Stop dreaming.
>>>>>
>>>>> We are nothing but animals on a planet.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's a pretty blasé perspective. Whatever floats your boat though..
>>>
>>> Nothing blasé about fact.
>>>
>>>

>>
>> Facts aren't blasé, perspectives can be.

>
> It is a fact that "We are nothing but animals on a planet". What
> evidence would lead you to come to a different perspective?


I never said we weren't animals on a planet, you're
setting up a strawman. But we are, as humans, more
than "just" animals.

>
> What evidence do you have for this wishy washy notion of God as an
> "organising force"?


I would prefer to avoid the word "God", it carries a
lot a negative baggage, like religion and all that
entails. But evidence of an "organizing force"? Just
take a look around, everything is organized in
patterns. The physical world operates according to
strict laws, the structure of everything, every living
thing, the way they live, is highly organized. We
reflect this in our behaviour, our social structures,
governments, we tend to organize everything we touch.

Look at a leaf under a microscope, where is the
evidence to support the view that things are random?

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Default How About A Side Of Hypocrisy

SystemX wrote:
> Dutch wrote:
>> SystemX wrote:
>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>> Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Vegans do consume dairy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Even by their own lax standards, vegans cannot consume dairy
>>>>>>>>>>>> and still legitimately call themselves vegans.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I mad e a mistook. - A bad one - I missed the important word
>>>>>>>>>>> 'not'. I guess you worked that out for yourself, but hey, why
>>>>>>>>>>> not score a point.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> That was redundant.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Just making a point that; self identification is not reliable
>>>>>>>>>>> identification:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You mean you don't identify yourself as God?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Including animals?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is related to your statement about "we are all God".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think it was clear Dutch was restricting "we" to humans.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the way I used the term I meant everything, not only humans,
>>>>>> not only animals and plants, everything.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In this sense God is the organizing force in all matter and life,
>>>>>> humans being the most ambitious manifestation of that force.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no 'force'.
>>>>
>>>> No force? That is hardly a plausible response. At the very least
>>>> there are many forces operating independently. There's a force in
>>>> you that gets you up in the morning.
>>>
>>> No; there is no 'organising force'. There is no 'force' that gets me
>>> up in the morning. (Apart from the PHYSICAL one that changes a body
>>> from a state of rest to one of motion).
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> It is entirely evolutionary.
>>>>
>>>> What is "it"?
>>>
>>> "life"

>>
>> What is life? Show me. Isn't it a force?

>
> Look in a mirror that is 'life'.


That's not life itself, its a reflection of a physical
body, passing into your visual cortex and processed by
the brain. It would much have the same appearance if
it were a life-like mannequin.

> No it's not an all encompassing
> "organising force" that you originally mentioned.


That is your view, but you aren't defending it. I
think my body is highly organized. It is currently
engaged in healing a wound on my hand, digesting food,
planning for visitors, while performing about one
million other daily tasks. Do you think that does not
take organization? Where does this organizing ability
come from? Did it occur randomly? Possibly, but I am
more convinced that some inherent force in nature
itself plays a role.

>
>>
>>>> I didn't say anything about development of species.
>>>
>>>> Question, why does life bother to occur?
>>>
>>> It doesn't 'bother' it just occurs.

>>
>> Why?

>
> There is no evidence of a 'bothering' 'organising force'.


The evidence is everywhere, unless everything, every
molecule, every animal and thing just happens to be
organized by random chance.

>>>> Why does lichen live on high mountain ridges where it is -100
>>>> degrees with almost no air? Why do animals struggle to live in
>>>> Antarctic winter? Why do flowers bloom?
>>>
>>> Try Wikipedia.

>>
>> There will be metaphysical hypotheses that you would reject.

>
> Of course I will reject some *hypotheses*. You seem to have a view of
> some driving / organising force that has no basis in *fact*.


Yes it does, the basis is observable reality. Your
view, apparently, that everything is random, has no
basis in observable reality. At the sub-atomic level
everything is fundamentally highly structured, while
at the same time random accidents happen constantly.


>>>> Seems like a lot of trouble just to die a short time later. What is
>>>> driving all this frenetic activity? Seems to me like there is some
>>>> kind of driving force.
>>>
>>> You are mistaken,

>>
>> How can you be so certain?

>
> There is NO evidence of a 'driving force' NONE.


Yes, there is, PLENTY.

>> > possibly misled by those around you.

>>
>> Where did you get the notions "atheism" and "agnosticism"? Was it not
>> "those around you"?

>
> I base my thoughts on facts, not some wishy washy notion of 'driving /
> organising forces' that equate to some form of God.


No you don't, you base your thoughts on the sacred cow
of the 20th century, the "New Science". It was
considered enlightenment in that view to reject
anything that can't be physically seen or measured.
That paradigm has fallen out of favor with physicists.

> What percentage of your friends and relations have belief in God?


I don't ask them, I think some go to church, but what
exactly they believe I don't know.

You are hung up on the "G word". I'm not talking about
believing in "a God", my perspective is to understand
the nature of reality at a deeper level than you are
attempting.

As I said, I am not interested in *convincing* you to
"believe" anything. If what I am saying does not make
sense to you, fine, it is what it is. I would be happy
to leave it at that.

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