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  #61 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 30-07-2007, 07:02 PM posted to talk.politics.animals,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan,misc.rural
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Default skirt-boy: burden of proof not met

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 03:45:55 -0700, Rupert wrote:

On Jul 29, 7:28 am, Kickin' Goober's Faggot Ass
wrote:
On Jul 28, 9:24 am, Rupert wrote:





On Jul 29, 1:10 am, Rudy Canoza wrote:


Rupert wrote:
On Jul 29, 12:58 am, Rudy Canoza wrote:
Rupert wrote:
On Jul 28, 3:22 pm, Rudy Canoza wrote:
Guppy the Corpse Pumper wrote:
On Jul 27, 2:08 pm, Rudy Canoza wrote:
On Jul 27, 12:52 pm, shrubkiller wrote:
On Jul 27, 1:42 am, Rudy Canoza wrote:
rupie, you lisping fruit: you assert that (non-human)
animals are due equal moral consideration (compared
with humans). You haven't established that. Get busy,
you lisping utilitarian fruit.
Why would anyone have to prove something which is SELF EVIDENT?
It is not self-evident. In fact, it is more likely self-evidently
false.
More proof that
The proposition of equal moral considerability of
animals (with humans) is self evidently false.
Well, surely if I can be criticized for making an assertion without
meeting by burden of proof, then this assertion of yours here can
equally be criticized on that basis.
I'm just following your lead.


I see. Well, that blabber of mine to which I directed you


zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


So, may I take it that you have no cogent criticisms to make of my
talk?


You're kidding, right?

Goo will dismiss your talk entirely without having read or heard it.

Only Goo is wise.

Only Goo knows.


Yes, I've often thought how great it would be to know everything, like
him. Like the way he knows that all the male activists at Animal
Liberation, including me, are queer, and the way he knows that the
mathematical paper I'm working on is rubbish, and the way he knows
that I'm seething with rage at him as opposed to roaring with
laughter,


Since the Goober makes up whatever he wants, and never
even tries to back up his absurd claims, he presents what he
considers to be an intelligent character when the reality is that
he's very clearly just a liar.

and the way he knows that I'm the one who exhibits symptoms
of psychosis, and so much more. Imagine knowing so much.


"Knowing"? "Much"? When considering dishonesty to the
extreme of the Goobal level, it always leads to the question:

How much of his absurdity is the Goober himself stupid enough
to believe?

Many of the claims he's not actually stupid enough to believe
must be deliberate lies, which probably account for over 50% of
Goo's "arguments". But supposedly he IS stupid enough to believe
some small percentage of the claims he makes, again causing a
person to wonder: Just how stupid Is this Goober? What percentage
of the following idiocy is Goob really stupid enough to believe?:

"When the entity moves from "pre-existence" into the
existence we know, we don't know if that move. . ." - Goo

"EVEN WITH the very best animal welfare conditions one
might provide: they STILL might not be as good as the
"pre-existence" state" - Goo

"Coming into existence is not a benefit to them: it does
not make them better off than before they existed." - Goo

"Life -per se- NEVER is a "benefit" to animals or even
to humans" - Goo

"Dogs NEVER anticipate, nor do cats, or cattle, or
any other animal you've ever encountered." - Goo

"Animals do not experience frustration." - Goo

"No zygotes, animals, people, or any other living thing
benefits from coming into existence. No farm animals
benefit from farming." - Goo

"the moral harm caused by killing them is greater in magnitude
than ANY benefit they might derive from "decent lives" - Goo

"Animals cannot be or feel disappointed." - Goo

"Non human animals experience neither pride nor
disappointment. They don't have the mental ability
to feel either." - Goo

"Darwin, a sentimental person, was projecting. He
saw something that wasn't there. He was, in a way,
hallucinating." - Goo

"Anticipation requires language." - Goo

"No animals anticipate." - Goo

"Dogs, cats, cattle, almost all animals "lower" than
the great apes have no sense of self." - Goo

"They are not aware that they can see. " - Goo

"They are *not* aware that they can smell." - Goo

"Cattle are specifically bred into existence to be
pet food. " - Goo

"I'm right about all of it." - Goo
"I can explain myself in logical and coherent terms" - Goo
"my name and reputation are sterling" - Goo
"Why are you laughing at mental illness" - Goo
"I'm not stupid." - Goo
"I know exactly what I think" - Goo
"I educated the public" - Goo
"I haven't made any absurd claims" - Goo
"You have never identified a single lie I've told." - Goo

It must be pretty special


In about the most contemptible way possible for
dealing with ngs, but that appears to be deliberate
on Goo's part.

to be Jonathan Ball.


You might just as well call the Goober "Wilson Woods",
or "****tard", or any of the following:

Citizen
Benfez
Radical Moderate
Bingo
Edward
George
Bill
Fred
Mystery Poster
Merlin the dog
Bob the dog

elvira
Dieter
"Dieter
"

Abner Hale
Roger Whitaker
Apoo
Ted Bell

Jay Santos

Rudy Canoza
Trappist

Leif Erikson
S. Maizlich
SlipperySlope
Eden
Sylvia Stevens
chico chupacabra

  #62 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 30-07-2007, 07:06 PM posted to talk.politics.animals,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan,misc.rural
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Default skirt-boy: burden of proof not met

[email protected] wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 03:45:55 -0700, Rupert wrote:

On Jul 29, 7:28 am, Kickin' Goober's Faggot Ass
wrote:
On Jul 28, 9:24 am, Rupert wrote:





On Jul 29, 1:10 am, Rudy Canoza wrote:
Rupert wrote:
On Jul 29, 12:58 am, Rudy Canoza wrote:
Rupert wrote:
On Jul 28, 3:22 pm, Rudy Canoza wrote:
Guppy the Corpse Pumper wrote:
On Jul 27, 2:08 pm, Rudy Canoza wrote:
On Jul 27, 12:52 pm, shrubkiller wrote:
On Jul 27, 1:42 am, Rudy Canoza wrote:
rupie, you lisping fruit: you assert that (non-human)
animals are due equal moral consideration (compared
with humans). You haven't established that. Get busy,
you lisping utilitarian fruit.
Why would anyone have to prove something which is SELF EVIDENT?
It is not self-evident. In fact, it is more likely self-evidently
false.
More proof that
The proposition of equal moral considerability of
animals (with humans) is self evidently false.
Well, surely if I can be criticized for making an assertion without
meeting by burden of proof, then this assertion of yours here can
equally be criticized on that basis.
I'm just following your lead.
I see. Well, that blabber of mine to which I directed you
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
So, may I take it that you have no cogent criticisms to make of my
talk?
You're kidding, right?

Goo will dismiss your talk entirely without having read or heard it.

Only Goo is wise.

Only Goo knows.

Yes, I've often thought how great it would be to know everything, like
him. Like the way he knows that all the male activists at Animal
Liberation, including me, are queer, and the way he knows that the
mathematical paper I'm working on is rubbish, and the way he knows
that I'm seething with rage at him as opposed to roaring with
laughter,


Since Rudy makes up whatever he wants


No. Rudy demonstrates repeatedly that you are a liar,
and that you believe in weird, irrational bullshit
about "pre-existent" animals:


Yes, it is the unborn animals that will be
born if nothing prevents that from happening,
that would experience the loss if their lives
are prevented.
****wit - 08/01/2000

The animals that will be raised for us to eat
are more than just "nothing", because they
*will* be born unless something stops their
lives from happening. Since that is the case,
if something stops their lives from happening,
whatever it is that stops it is truly "denying"
them of the life they otherwise would have had.
****wit - 12/09/1999

What gives you the right to want to deprive
them [unborn animals] of having what life they
could have?
****wit - 10/12/2001


You lost, ****wit. And you're too stupid to see it.
  #63 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 30-07-2007, 08:36 PM posted to talk.politics.animals,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan,misc.rural
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Default skirt-boy: burden of proof not met

Derek wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 20:56:43 GMT, Dutch wrote:

[..]
I do have some personal experience with cognitive
dissonance, I experienced it, and at the point when
I finally consciously confronted the underlying conflict
I experienced a kind of physical discomfort in the
brain, a dizziness and a buzzing in my ears, followed
shortly by a kind of feeling of relief and elevated mental
clarity. The brain will attempt to punish you to stop you
from threatening the existing belief.


So, it's established, then,


Your history is well established. I asked you how many times you
returned to this group masquerading as people who support your ideas.
Were you planning to reply to that question? You have a thorough
inventory of the history of this group, surely you must have that stat
at your fingertips? Just curious..
  #64 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 30-07-2007, 09:29 PM posted to talk.politics.animals,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan,misc.rural
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Posts: 215
Default skirt-boy: burden of proof not met

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:36:35 GMT, Dutch wrote:
Derek wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 20:56:43 GMT, Dutch wrote:

[..]
I do have some personal experience with cognitive
dissonance, I experienced it, and at the point when
I finally consciously confronted the underlying conflict
I experienced a kind of physical discomfort in the
brain, a dizziness and a buzzing in my ears, followed
shortly by a kind of feeling of relief and elevated mental
clarity. The brain will attempt to punish you to stop you
from threatening the existing belief.


So, it's established, then, that not only are you a liar
who had to invent a family of kids to use as anecdotal
evidence to get your points accepted, both here and
in alt.abortion, when you try to stop deluding yourself
your brain punishes you to such an extent that it hurts
you ("physical discomfort"), makes you feel dizzy, and
gives you a buzzing sound in your ears.

"I did find deluding myself quite comfortable, after
all who was it hurting?"
Dutch as 'apostate' Mar 17 2002 http://tinyurl.com/cmhpo

"Deluding myself felt good."
Dutch Jun 4 2005 http://tinyurl.com/94eq3

And you wonder why I never take you seriously?


Your history is well established.


As usual, when forced to address your lies and explain
why I or anyone should take you seriously after learning
how mentally ill you are, you try to excuse your bad
behaviour by referring to the alleged bad behaviour of
others. That's simply not good enough, Ditch. Going
from that statement you made at the top of this post
and others you've made over the years concerning your
deluded state of mind, and how it makes you feel good,
you're clearly suffering from a serious mental illness and
can't be taken seriously here on these issues. You're a
deluded liar who, when faced with the truth, refuses to
accept that truth because, simply put, it makes your
brain hurt and makes your ears buzz. haw haw haw.
  #65 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 30-07-2007, 09:39 PM posted to talk.politics.animals,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan,misc.rural
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 173
Default skirt-boy: burden of proof not met

Derek wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:36:35 GMT, Dutch wrote:
Derek wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 20:56:43 GMT, Dutch wrote:

[..]
I do have some personal experience with cognitive
dissonance, I experienced it, and at the point when
I finally consciously confronted the underlying conflict
I experienced a kind of physical discomfort in the
brain, a dizziness and a buzzing in my ears, followed
shortly by a kind of feeling of relief and elevated mental
clarity. The brain will attempt to punish you to stop you
from threatening the existing belief.
So, it's established, then, that not only are you a liar
who had to invent a family of kids to use as anecdotal
evidence to get your points accepted, both here and
in alt.abortion, when you try to stop deluding yourself
your brain punishes you to such an extent that it hurts
you ("physical discomfort"), makes you feel dizzy, and
gives you a buzzing sound in your ears.

"I did find deluding myself quite comfortable, after
all who was it hurting?"
Dutch as 'apostate' Mar 17 2002 http://tinyurl.com/cmhpo

"Deluding myself felt good."
Dutch Jun 4 2005 http://tinyurl.com/94eq3

And you wonder why I never take you seriously?

Your history is well established.


As usual, when forced to address your lies and explain
why I or anyone should take you seriously after learning
how mentally ill you are


Cognitive dissonance is not mental illness. He
experienced cognitive dissonance, determined the
falseness of the belief that led him to experience it,
and abandoned the false belief.


  #66 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 30-07-2007, 09:50 PM posted to talk.politics.animals,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan,misc.rural
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Default skirt-boy: burden of proof not met

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:39:23 GMT, Rudy Canoza wrote:
Derek wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:36:35 GMT, Dutch wrote:
Derek wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 20:56:43 GMT, Dutch wrote:

[..]
I do have some personal experience with cognitive
dissonance, I experienced it, and at the point when
I finally consciously confronted the underlying conflict
I experienced a kind of physical discomfort in the
brain, a dizziness and a buzzing in my ears, followed
shortly by a kind of feeling of relief and elevated mental
clarity. The brain will attempt to punish you to stop you
from threatening the existing belief.

So, it's established, then, that not only are you a liar
who had to invent a family of kids to use as anecdotal
evidence to get your points accepted, both here and
in alt.abortion, when you try to stop deluding yourself
your brain punishes you to such an extent that it hurts
you ("physical discomfort"), makes you feel dizzy, and
gives you a buzzing sound in your ears.

"I did find deluding myself quite comfortable, after
all who was it hurting?"
Dutch as 'apostate' Mar 17 2002 http://tinyurl.com/cmhpo

"Deluding myself felt good."
Dutch Jun 4 2005 http://tinyurl.com/94eq3

And you wonder why I never take you seriously?

Your history is well established.


As usual, when forced to address your lies and explain
why I or anyone should take you seriously after learning
how mentally ill you are,you try to excuse your bad
behaviour by referring to the alleged bad behaviour of
others. That's simply not good enough, Ditch. Going
from that statement you made at the top of this post
and others you've made over the years concerning your
deluded state of mind, and how it makes you feel good,
you're clearly suffering from a serious mental illness and
can't be taken seriously here on these issues. You're a
deluded liar who, when faced with the truth, refuses to
accept that truth because, simply put, it makes your
brain hurt and makes your ears buzz. haw haw haw.


Cognitive dissonance is not mental illness.


He's clearly suffering from a serious mental illness if his
mental conflicts and self-confessed delusions cause
physical discomfort in the brain, dizziness, and a
buzzing in the ears. He's certifiable.
  #67 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 30-07-2007, 10:16 PM posted to talk.politics.animals,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan,misc.rural
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Posts: 7
Default skirt-boy: burden of proof not met

On Jul 30, 2:50 pm, Derek wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:39:23 GMT, Rudy Canoza wrote:
Derek wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:36:35 GMT, Dutch wrote:
Derek wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 20:56:43 GMT, Dutch wrote:


[..]
I do have some personal experience with cognitive
dissonance, I experienced it, and at the point when
I finally consciously confronted the underlying conflict
I experienced a kind of physical discomfort in the
brain, a dizziness and a buzzing in my ears, followed
shortly by a kind of feeling of relief and elevated mental
clarity. The brain will attempt to punish you to stop you
from threatening the existing belief.


So, it's established, then, that not only are you a liar
who had to invent a family of kids to use as anecdotal
evidence to get your points accepted, both here and
in alt.abortion, when you try to stop deluding yourself
your brain punishes you to such an extent that it hurts
you ("physical discomfort"), makes you feel dizzy, and
gives you a buzzing sound in your ears.


"I did find deluding myself quite comfortable, after
all who was it hurting?"
Dutch as 'apostate' Mar 17 2002http://tinyurl.com/cmhpo


"Deluding myself felt good."
Dutch Jun 4 2005http://tinyurl.com/94eq3


And you wonder why I never take you seriously?


Your history is well established.


As usual, when forced to address your lies and explain
why I or anyone should take you seriously after learning
how mentally ill you are,you try to excuse your bad
behaviour by referring to the alleged bad behaviour of
others. That's simply not good enough, Ditch. Going
from that statement you made at the top of this post
and others you've made over the years concerning your
deluded state of mind, and how it makes you feel good,
you're clearly suffering from a serious mental illness and
can't be taken seriously here on these issues. You're a
deluded liar who, when faced with the truth, refuses to
accept that truth because, simply put, it makes your
brain hurt and makes your ears buzz. haw haw haw.


Cognitive dissonance is not mental illness.


He's clearly suffering from a serious mental illness if his
mental conflicts and self-confessed delusions cause
physical discomfort in the brain, dizziness, and a
buzzing in the ears. He's certifiable.






Are you making a diagnosis?







- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -



  #68 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 30-07-2007, 10:33 PM posted to talk.politics.animals,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan,misc.rural
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 173
Default skirt-boy: burden of proof not met

Derek wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:39:23 GMT, Rudy Canoza wrote:
Derek wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:36:35 GMT, Dutch wrote:
Derek wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 20:56:43 GMT, Dutch wrote:

[..]
I do have some personal experience with cognitive
dissonance, I experienced it, and at the point when
I finally consciously confronted the underlying conflict
I experienced a kind of physical discomfort in the
brain, a dizziness and a buzzing in my ears, followed
shortly by a kind of feeling of relief and elevated mental
clarity. The brain will attempt to punish you to stop you
from threatening the existing belief.
So, it's established, then, that not only are you a liar
who had to invent a family of kids to use as anecdotal
evidence to get your points accepted, both here and
in alt.abortion, when you try to stop deluding yourself
your brain punishes you to such an extent that it hurts
you ("physical discomfort"), makes you feel dizzy, and
gives you a buzzing sound in your ears.

"I did find deluding myself quite comfortable, after
all who was it hurting?"
Dutch as 'apostate' Mar 17 2002 http://tinyurl.com/cmhpo

"Deluding myself felt good."
Dutch Jun 4 2005 http://tinyurl.com/94eq3

And you wonder why I never take you seriously?
Your history is well established.
As usual, when forced to address your lies and explain
why I or anyone should take you seriously after learning
how mentally ill you are,you try to excuse your bad
behaviour by referring to the alleged bad behaviour of
others. That's simply not good enough, Ditch. Going
from that statement you made at the top of this post
and others you've made over the years concerning your
deluded state of mind, and how it makes you feel good,
you're clearly suffering from a serious mental illness and
can't be taken seriously here on these issues. You're a
deluded liar who, when faced with the truth, refuses to
accept that truth because, simply put, it makes your
brain hurt and makes your ears buzz. haw haw haw.

Cognitive dissonance is not mental illness.


He's clearly suffering from a serious mental illness if


Cognitive dissonance is not mental illness.

He no longer experiences cognitive dissonance. He
resolved it by discarding the false belief(s).
  #69 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 30-07-2007, 10:57 PM posted to talk.politics.animals,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan,misc.rural
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 215
Default skirt-boy: burden of proof not met

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 21:33:15 GMT, Rudy Canoza wrote:
Derek wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:39:23 GMT, Rudy Canoza wrote:
Derek wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:36:35 GMT, Dutch wrote:
Derek wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 20:56:43 GMT, Dutch wrote:

[..]
I do have some personal experience with cognitive
dissonance, I experienced it, and at the point when
I finally consciously confronted the underlying conflict
I experienced a kind of physical discomfort in the
brain, a dizziness and a buzzing in my ears, followed
shortly by a kind of feeling of relief and elevated mental
clarity. The brain will attempt to punish you to stop you
from threatening the existing belief.

So, it's established, then, that not only are you a liar
who had to invent a family of kids to use as anecdotal
evidence to get your points accepted, both here and
in alt.abortion, when you try to stop deluding yourself
your brain punishes you to such an extent that it hurts
you ("physical discomfort"), makes you feel dizzy, and
gives you a buzzing sound in your ears.

"I did find deluding myself quite comfortable, after
all who was it hurting?"
Dutch as 'apostate' Mar 17 2002 http://tinyurl.com/cmhpo

"Deluding myself felt good."
Dutch Jun 4 2005 http://tinyurl.com/94eq3

And you wonder why I never take you seriously?

Your history is well established.

As usual, when forced to address your lies and explain
why I or anyone should take you seriously after learning
how mentally ill you are, you try to excuse your bad
behaviour by referring to the alleged bad behaviour of
others. That's simply not good enough, Ditch. Going
from that statement you made at the top of this post
and others you've made over the years concerning your
deluded state of mind, and how it makes you feel good,
you're clearly suffering from a serious mental illness and
can't be taken seriously here on these issues. You're a
deluded liar who, when faced with the truth, refuses to
accept that truth because, simply put, it makes your
brain hurt and makes your ears buzz. haw haw haw.

Cognitive dissonance is not mental illness.


He's clearly suffering from a serious mental illness if his
mental conflicts and self-confessed delusions cause
physical discomfort in the brain, dizziness, and a
buzzing in the ears. He's certifiable.


Cognitive dissonance is not mental illness.


He's a self-confessed delusional who believes his own
brain punishes itself with pain, dizziness, and a buzzing
in the ears when forced to confront conflicts. That's
a very serious mental disorder which must be taken
into account when discussing issues with him, because
rather than face the truth like a normal person does he
deludes himself instead to feel good for fear that his
brain is going to punish him again.
  #70 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 30-07-2007, 10:58 PM posted to talk.politics.animals,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan,misc.rural
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 173
Default skirt-boy: burden of proof not met

Derek wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 21:33:15 GMT, Rudy Canoza wrote:
Derek wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:39:23 GMT, Rudy Canoza wrote:
Derek wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:36:35 GMT, Dutch wrote:
Derek wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 20:56:43 GMT, Dutch wrote:

[..]
I do have some personal experience with cognitive
dissonance, I experienced it, and at the point when
I finally consciously confronted the underlying conflict
I experienced a kind of physical discomfort in the
brain, a dizziness and a buzzing in my ears, followed
shortly by a kind of feeling of relief and elevated mental
clarity. The brain will attempt to punish you to stop you
from threatening the existing belief.
So, it's established, then, that not only are you a liar
who had to invent a family of kids to use as anecdotal
evidence to get your points accepted, both here and
in alt.abortion, when you try to stop deluding yourself
your brain punishes you to such an extent that it hurts
you ("physical discomfort"), makes you feel dizzy, and
gives you a buzzing sound in your ears.

"I did find deluding myself quite comfortable, after
all who was it hurting?"
Dutch as 'apostate' Mar 17 2002 http://tinyurl.com/cmhpo

"Deluding myself felt good."
Dutch Jun 4 2005 http://tinyurl.com/94eq3

And you wonder why I never take you seriously?
Your history is well established.
As usual, when forced to address your lies and explain
why I or anyone should take you seriously after learning
how mentally ill you are, you try to excuse your bad
behaviour by referring to the alleged bad behaviour of
others. That's simply not good enough, Ditch. Going
from that statement you made at the top of this post
and others you've made over the years concerning your
deluded state of mind, and how it makes you feel good,
you're clearly suffering from a serious mental illness and
can't be taken seriously here on these issues. You're a
deluded liar who, when faced with the truth, refuses to
accept that truth because, simply put, it makes your
brain hurt and makes your ears buzz. haw haw haw.
Cognitive dissonance is not mental illness.
He's clearly suffering from a serious mental illness if his
mental conflicts and self-confessed delusions cause
physical discomfort in the brain, dizziness, and a
buzzing in the ears. He's certifiable.

Cognitive dissonance is not mental illness.


He's a self-confessed delusional


WAS. He resolved the cognitive dissonance by
eliminating the delusion.


  #71 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 30-07-2007, 11:11 PM posted to talk.politics.animals,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan,misc.rural
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 215
Default skirt-boy: burden of proof not met

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 21:58:38 GMT, Rudy Canoza wrote:
Derek wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 21:33:15 GMT, Rudy Canoza wrote:
Derek wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:39:23 GMT, Rudy Canoza wrote:
Derek wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:36:35 GMT, Dutch wrote:
Derek wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 20:56:43 GMT, Dutch wrote:

[..]
I do have some personal experience with cognitive
dissonance, I experienced it, and at the point when
I finally consciously confronted the underlying conflict
I experienced a kind of physical discomfort in the
brain, a dizziness and a buzzing in my ears, followed
shortly by a kind of feeling of relief and elevated mental
clarity. The brain will attempt to punish you to stop you
from threatening the existing belief.

So, it's established, then, that not only are you a liar
who had to invent a family of kids to use as anecdotal
evidence to get your points accepted, both here and
in alt.abortion, when you try to stop deluding yourself
your brain punishes you to such an extent that it hurts
you ("physical discomfort"), makes you feel dizzy, and
gives you a buzzing sound in your ears.

"I did find deluding myself quite comfortable, after
all who was it hurting?"
Dutch as 'apostate' Mar 17 2002 http://tinyurl.com/cmhpo

"Deluding myself felt good."
Dutch Jun 4 2005 http://tinyurl.com/94eq3

And you wonder why I never take you seriously?

Your history is well established.

As usual, when forced to address your lies and explain
why I or anyone should take you seriously after learning
how mentally ill you are, you try to excuse your bad
behaviour by referring to the alleged bad behaviour of
others. That's simply not good enough, Ditch. Going
from that statement you made at the top of this post
and others you've made over the years concerning your
deluded state of mind, and how it makes you feel good,
you're clearly suffering from a serious mental illness and
can't be taken seriously here on these issues. You're a
deluded liar who, when faced with the truth, refuses to
accept that truth because, simply put, it makes your
brain hurt and makes your ears buzz. haw haw haw.

Cognitive dissonance is not mental illness.

He's clearly suffering from a serious mental illness if his
mental conflicts and self-confessed delusions cause
physical discomfort in the brain, dizziness, and a
buzzing in the ears. He's certifiable.

Cognitive dissonance is not mental illness.


He's a self-confessed delusional who believes his own
brain punishes itself with pain, dizziness, and a buzzing
in the ears when forced to confront conflicts. That's
a very serious mental disorder which must be taken
into account when discussing issues with him, because
rather than face the truth like a normal person does he
deludes himself instead to feel good for fear that his
brain is going to punish him again.


WAS.


IS. I've no reason to believe he's cured.

He resolved the cognitive dissonance by eliminating the delusion.


His quotes show that he's flip-flopped back and forth on
the issues raised here for years, so no, I don't believe
for one moment that he's ever managed to resolve those
conflicts which cause his brain to attack itself in the way
he describes.
  #72 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 30-07-2007, 11:30 PM posted to talk.politics.animals,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan,misc.rural
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,026
Default the last sock-puppet of Derek the Dodger

Derek snipped and ran thusly:

Your history is well established. I asked you how many times

you returned to this group masquerading as people who support
your ideas. Were you planning to reply to that question? You
have a thorough inventory of the history of this group, surely
you must have that stat at your fingertips? Just curious..

As usual


As usual is right, you must find it pretty embarrassing to be shown to
be such a hypocrite.. Is it "Derek" this time? Are you currently working
on any new sock puppets to come along to agree with you? It must be
difficult to maintain such masquerades, or does it come naturally?

So many questions, so few answers... Maybe I'll go back into the
archives and ressurect a few of them. It'll be like pub night in Eastbourne.

  #73 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 30-07-2007, 11:47 PM posted to talk.politics.animals,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan,misc.rural
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 173
Default skirt-boy: burden of proof not met

Derek wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 21:58:38 GMT, Rudy Canoza wrote:
Derek wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 21:33:15 GMT, Rudy Canoza wrote:
Derek wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:39:23 GMT, Rudy Canoza wrote:
Derek wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:36:35 GMT, Dutch wrote:
Derek wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 20:56:43 GMT, Dutch wrote:

[..]
I do have some personal experience with cognitive
dissonance, I experienced it, and at the point when
I finally consciously confronted the underlying conflict
I experienced a kind of physical discomfort in the
brain, a dizziness and a buzzing in my ears, followed
shortly by a kind of feeling of relief and elevated mental
clarity. The brain will attempt to punish you to stop you
from threatening the existing belief.
So, it's established, then, that not only are you a liar
who had to invent a family of kids to use as anecdotal
evidence to get your points accepted, both here and
in alt.abortion, when you try to stop deluding yourself
your brain punishes you to such an extent that it hurts
you ("physical discomfort"), makes you feel dizzy, and
gives you a buzzing sound in your ears.

"I did find deluding myself quite comfortable, after
all who was it hurting?"
Dutch as 'apostate' Mar 17 2002 http://tinyurl.com/cmhpo

"Deluding myself felt good."
Dutch Jun 4 2005 http://tinyurl.com/94eq3

And you wonder why I never take you seriously?
Your history is well established.
As usual, when forced to address your lies and explain
why I or anyone should take you seriously after learning
how mentally ill you are, you try to excuse your bad
behaviour by referring to the alleged bad behaviour of
others. That's simply not good enough, Ditch. Going
from that statement you made at the top of this post
and others you've made over the years concerning your
deluded state of mind, and how it makes you feel good,
you're clearly suffering from a serious mental illness and
can't be taken seriously here on these issues. You're a
deluded liar who, when faced with the truth, refuses to
accept that truth because, simply put, it makes your
brain hurt and makes your ears buzz. haw haw haw.
Cognitive dissonance is not mental illness.
He's clearly suffering from a serious mental illness if his
mental conflicts and self-confessed delusions cause
physical discomfort in the brain, dizziness, and a
buzzing in the ears. He's certifiable.
Cognitive dissonance is not mental illness.
He's a self-confessed delusional who believes his own
brain punishes itself with pain, dizziness, and a buzzing
in the ears when forced to confront conflicts. That's
a very serious mental disorder which must be taken
into account when discussing issues with him, because
rather than face the truth like a normal person does he
deludes himself instead to feel good for fear that his
brain is going to punish him again.

WAS.


IS. I've no reason to believe he's cured.


No, WAS. You have no reason to doubt that he has
resolved the conflict, other than your personal animus
and your willful blindness.


He resolved the cognitive dissonance by eliminating the delusion.


His quotes show that he's flip-flopped back and forth on
the issues raised here for years,


His quotes and all of his posting history since about
2001 show that he no longer believes in animal "rights".
  #74 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 31-07-2007, 12:08 AM posted to talk.politics.animals,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan,misc.rural
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 215
Default skirt-boy: burden of proof not met

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:47:34 GMT, Rudy Canoza wrote:
Derek wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 21:58:38 GMT, Rudy Canoza wrote:
Derek wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 21:33:15 GMT, Rudy Canoza wrote:
Derek wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:39:23 GMT, Rudy Canoza wrote:
Derek wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:36:35 GMT, Dutch wrote:
Derek wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 20:56:43 GMT, Dutch wrote:

[..]
I do have some personal experience with cognitive
dissonance, I experienced it, and at the point when
I finally consciously confronted the underlying conflict
I experienced a kind of physical discomfort in the
brain, a dizziness and a buzzing in my ears, followed
shortly by a kind of feeling of relief and elevated mental
clarity. The brain will attempt to punish you to stop you
from threatening the existing belief.

So, it's established, then, that not only are you a liar
who had to invent a family of kids to use as anecdotal
evidence to get your points accepted, both here and
in alt.abortion, when you try to stop deluding yourself
your brain punishes you to such an extent that it hurts
you ("physical discomfort"), makes you feel dizzy, and
gives you a buzzing sound in your ears.

"I did find deluding myself quite comfortable, after
all who was it hurting?"
Dutch as 'apostate' Mar 17 2002 http://tinyurl.com/cmhpo

"Deluding myself felt good."
Dutch Jun 4 2005 http://tinyurl.com/94eq3

And you wonder why I never take you seriously?

Your history is well established.

As usual, when forced to address your lies and explain
why I or anyone should take you seriously after learning
how mentally ill you are, you try to excuse your bad
behaviour by referring to the alleged bad behaviour of
others. That's simply not good enough, Ditch. Going
from that statement you made at the top of this post
and others you've made over the years concerning your
deluded state of mind, and how it makes you feel good,
you're clearly suffering from a serious mental illness and
can't be taken seriously here on these issues. You're a
deluded liar who, when faced with the truth, refuses to
accept that truth because, simply put, it makes your
brain hurt and makes your ears buzz. haw haw haw.

Cognitive dissonance is not mental illness.

He's clearly suffering from a serious mental illness if his
mental conflicts and self-confessed delusions cause
physical discomfort in the brain, dizziness, and a
buzzing in the ears. He's certifiable.

Cognitive dissonance is not mental illness.

He's a self-confessed delusional who believes his own
brain punishes itself with pain, dizziness, and a buzzing
in the ears when forced to confront conflicts. That's
a very serious mental disorder which must be taken
into account when discussing issues with him, because
rather than face the truth like a normal person does he
deludes himself instead to feel good for fear that his
brain is going to punish him again.

WAS.


IS. I've no reason to believe he's cured.


No, WAS. You have no reason to doubt that he has
resolved the conflict


His quotes show that hasn't resolved any conflicts at all.

He resolved the cognitive dissonance by eliminating the delusion.


His quotes show that he's flip-flopped back and forth on
the issues raised here for years, so no, I don't believe
for one moment that he's ever managed to resolve those
conflicts which cause his brain to attack itself in the way
he describes.


His quotes and all of his posting history since about
2001 show that he no longer believes in animal "rights".


False. He first came here claiming to be an advocate
on the proposition of animal rights.

"I am an animal rights believer."
Dutch 12 Feb 2001 http://tinyurl.com/4ybt3

and

"My contention is that 'animal rights' have sprouted
like branches from the tree of "HUMAN RIGHTS".
They are derivative. They reflect from a) what our
own rights are b) to what degree and how we value
the animal or species."
Dutch 23 Feb 2001 http://tinyurl.com/3ljkh

But within just a few months he started writing
things like;

"They have no rights because the very idea of
a world of animals with rights is a laugh."
Dutch 7 Aug 2001 http://tinyurl.com/6wffc

and

"Well, I don't believe in the idea of animal rights, I
find it irrational ."
Dutch 28 Aug 2002 http://tinyurl.com/47wy4

But then he switched back again, accepting the
proposition of animal rights and claiming to have
signed a petition in support for it to the Canadian
government.

"I recently signed a petition online supporting
an 'animal rights' bill in Canadian parliament."
Dutch 18 Sept 2003 http://tinyurl.com/5aaxn

and later;

"Rights for animals exist because human rights
exist. If human rights did not exist, rights for
animals would not exist."
Dutch Sun, 18 Apr 2004 http://tinyurl.com/3s6pz

and

"If they are inherent in humans then why are
they not in some way inherent in all animals?
I think rights are a human invention which we
apply widely to humans and in specific ways in
certain situations to other animals."
...
"There is no coherent reason why humans ought
to be prohibited from extending some form of
rights towards animals in their care."
...
"I am firmly on flat ground. Human created rights,
we apply them to all humans at birth, and we apply
versions of them to certain animals in limited ways
within our sphere of influence."
Dutch 18 May 2005 http://tinyurl.com/bu7nb

and

"I measure my right to be free from physical assault
by looking if laws and sanctions exist against anyone
who would assault me. Such laws and sanctions exist
to protect domestic animals from abuse, so I must
conclude that they hold rights against humans who
would abuse them."
Dutch Sep 20 2005 http://tinyurl.com/9g3yp

and

"Animals can be "moral patients", in a similar
way as minor children or people in comas.
They can hold rights against us, but we can't
hold rights against them."
Dutch 24 Sep 2005 http://tinyurl.com/cpxhx

and, this very month

"I would hold in fact that this is so plausible that apes
should be granted basic rights."
Dutch 7 July 2007 http://tinyurl.com/328k8h

And then back again,

"I'm not an ARA."
Dutch 19 Jul 2007 http://tinyurl.com/253nlg

As we can plainly see, he's constantly changing his
stance on this position.
  #75 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 31-07-2007, 12:16 AM posted to talk.politics.animals,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan,misc.rural
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 173
Default skirt-boy: burden of proof not met

Derek wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:47:34 GMT, Rudy Canoza wrote:
Derek wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 21:58:38 GMT, Rudy Canoza wrote:
Derek wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 21:33:15 GMT, Rudy Canoza wrote:
Derek wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:39:23 GMT, Rudy Canoza wrote:
Derek wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:36:35 GMT, Dutch wrote:
Derek wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 20:56:43 GMT, Dutch wrote:

[..]
I do have some personal experience with cognitive
dissonance, I experienced it, and at the point when
I finally consciously confronted the underlying conflict
I experienced a kind of physical discomfort in the
brain, a dizziness and a buzzing in my ears, followed
shortly by a kind of feeling of relief and elevated mental
clarity. The brain will attempt to punish you to stop you
from threatening the existing belief.
So, it's established, then, that not only are you a liar
who had to invent a family of kids to use as anecdotal
evidence to get your points accepted, both here and
in alt.abortion, when you try to stop deluding yourself
your brain punishes you to such an extent that it hurts
you ("physical discomfort"), makes you feel dizzy, and
gives you a buzzing sound in your ears.

"I did find deluding myself quite comfortable, after
all who was it hurting?"
Dutch as 'apostate' Mar 17 2002 http://tinyurl.com/cmhpo

"Deluding myself felt good."
Dutch Jun 4 2005 http://tinyurl.com/94eq3

And you wonder why I never take you seriously?
Your history is well established.
As usual, when forced to address your lies and explain
why I or anyone should take you seriously after learning
how mentally ill you are, you try to excuse your bad
behaviour by referring to the alleged bad behaviour of
others. That's simply not good enough, Ditch. Going
from that statement you made at the top of this post
and others you've made over the years concerning your
deluded state of mind, and how it makes you feel good,
you're clearly suffering from a serious mental illness and
can't be taken seriously here on these issues. You're a
deluded liar who, when faced with the truth, refuses to
accept that truth because, simply put, it makes your
brain hurt and makes your ears buzz. haw haw haw.
Cognitive dissonance is not mental illness.
He's clearly suffering from a serious mental illness if his
mental conflicts and self-confessed delusions cause
physical discomfort in the brain, dizziness, and a
buzzing in the ears. He's certifiable.
Cognitive dissonance is not mental illness.
He's a self-confessed delusional who believes his own
brain punishes itself with pain, dizziness, and a buzzing
in the ears when forced to confront conflicts. That's
a very serious mental disorder which must be taken
into account when discussing issues with him, because
rather than face the truth like a normal person does he
deludes himself instead to feel good for fear that his
brain is going to punish him again.
WAS.
IS. I've no reason to believe he's cured.

No, WAS. You have no reason to doubt that he has
resolved the conflict


His quotes show that hasn't resolved any conflicts at all.


His quotes show that he *has* resolved the only
relevant conflict. He no longer believes animals have
rights.


He resolved the cognitive dissonance by eliminating the delusion.
His quotes show that he's flip-flopped back and forth on
the issues raised here for years, so no, I don't believe
for one moment that he's ever managed to resolve those
conflicts which cause his brain to attack itself in the way
he describes.

His quotes and all of his posting history since about
2001 show that he no longer believes in animal "rights".


False. He first came here claiming to be an advocate
on the proposition of animal rights.

"I am an animal rights believer."
Dutch 12 Feb 2001 http://tinyurl.com/4ybt3

and

"My contention is that 'animal rights' have sprouted
like branches from the tree of "HUMAN RIGHTS".
They are derivative. They reflect from a) what our
own rights are b) to what degree and how we value
the animal or species."
Dutch 23 Feb 2001 http://tinyurl.com/3ljkh

But within just a few months he started writing
things like;

"They have no rights because the very idea of
a world of animals with rights is a laugh."


That's a lot of time that went by. Mercer, among
others, set him straight.


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