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johnny@. wrote:
> by Bill Gray
> October 19, 2006 01:54 PM EST
>
> The message below was sent to me by my high school classmate and Friend,
> Fredda, and her husband, Jim Wolfe. My Friend, this really touched a
> sore spot with me--for I have experienced much of what Frosty Wooldridge
> is telling us in this very important article. It has become virtually
> impossible to comfortably eat in a restaurant or fast food--because of
> the lack of hygiene of the minimum wage "third world" workers in the back.
>
> About fifteen years ago, Dory and I wanted to have a nice dinner near
> the beach. At that time, there was a really neat little restaurant in
> Laguna Beach across Pacific Coast Highway from the Laguna Hotel. And it
> had a unique name: The Place Across The Street From The Laguna Hotel.
> Honest, that was the name. What made it especially attractive on a nice
> summer evening was that you could sit on the outside patio which was by
> the sidewalk--and watch all the people strolling by. It was a really
> neat place--until one memorable evening. Dory and I went there for
> dinner and had a table on the street side patio. We ordered dinner and
> were sipping a glass of wine. Then, I went to the bathroom. As I was
> standing by the urinal, a young "third world" man came out of the toilet
> cubicle--and walked right out the door--not bothering to even wet his
> hands, much less wash them. Immediately, I followed to see where he
> went. Guess what? He walked right into the kitchen and went back to work.
>
> After washing MY hands, I went to our table and told Dory, "Let's go.
> They can eat the dinners themselves." As we were leaving, I explained to
> her what had happened. We have never been back to that restaurant since.
>
> I came to California first in 1958, went to Virginia and Washington DC
> for a few years, and then in 1963 returned to California. That was about
> the time that Taco Bell was started--and I fell in love with their food.
> Over the years, I have eaten at Taco Bell so much, that even the
> regional manager began to recognize me. All my friends knew of my
> addiction to Taco Bell. About twelve years ago, I was ushering at our
> church. A young couple that I had never seen before walked up to me and
> said, "You really like Taco Bell, don't you?" My first reaction was--how
> does she know? Do I have Taco Bell written on my forehead? As it turned
> out, she was a friend of my daughter-in-law, Joy.
>
> Well, guess what? I have only eaten at a Taco Bell twice in the last ten
> years! And, those two times, I first went into the bathroom to check it
> out. What was I looking for? Well, Frosty Wooldridge explains it very
> well in his article--the workers from Mexico do not flush used toilet
> paper down the toilet. They just wipe and toss it in the trash can which
> is sitting beside the toilet bowl. I really began to notice this about
> ten years ago. I would go into the restroom, many which did not even
> have disposable hand towels, but instead they had the idiotic hand
> blowers. However, even in these restrooms which did not have disposable
> hand towels--they always had a trash can sitting beside the toilet. Why?
> Because management, many of whom were from the old country also--placed
> the trash cans there for their employees to use--to toss dirty, used
> toilet paper.
>
> A number of times, I went to the manager and asked why they had these
> trash cans sitting beside the toilet--when they did not have disposable
> paper towels--and everything else, toilet paper, seat covers, can be
> flushed. They could not give me an answer. I asked if they would be able
> to give the Health Department an answer. This has become a serious
> problem throughout the Taco Bell chain--and many other Mexican
> restaurants also.
>
> The rest of the story:
>
> http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/19448.html


Fat-assed public wants that cheap.

ted

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In article . com>,
wrote:

johnny@. wrote:
> by Bill Gray
> October 19, 2006 01:54 PM EST
>
> The message below was sent to me by my high school classmate and Friend,
> Fredda, and her husband, Jim Wolfe. My Friend, this really touched a
> sore spot with me--for I have experienced much of what Frosty Wooldridge
> is telling us in this very important article. It has become virtually
> impossible to comfortably eat in a restaurant or fast food--because of
> the lack of hygiene of the minimum wage "third world" workers in the back.
>
> About fifteen years ago, Dory and I wanted to have a nice dinner near
> the beach. At that time, there was a really neat little restaurant in
> Laguna Beach across Pacific Coast Highway from the Laguna Hotel. And it
> had a unique name: The Place Across The Street From The Laguna Hotel.
> Honest, that was the name. What made it especially attractive on a nice
> summer evening was that you could sit on the outside patio which was by
> the sidewalk--and watch all the people strolling by. It was a really
> neat place--until one memorable evening. Dory and I went there for
> dinner and had a table on the street side patio. We ordered dinner and
> were sipping a glass of wine. Then, I went to the bathroom. As I was
> standing by the urinal, a young "third world" man came out of the toilet
> cubicle--and walked right out the door--not bothering to even wet his
> hands, much less wash them. Immediately, I followed to see where he
> went. Guess what? He walked right into the kitchen and went back to work.
>
> After washing MY hands, I went to our table and told Dory, "Let's go.
> They can eat the dinners themselves." As we were leaving, I explained to
> her what had happened. We have never been back to that restaurant since.
>
> I came to California first in 1958, went to Virginia and Washington DC
> for a few years, and then in 1963 returned to California. That was about
> the time that Taco Bell was started--and I fell in love with their food.
> Over the years, I have eaten at Taco Bell so much, that even the
> regional manager began to recognize me. All my friends knew of my
> addiction to Taco Bell. About twelve years ago, I was ushering at our
> church. A young couple that I had never seen before walked up to me and
> said, "You really like Taco Bell, don't you?" My first reaction was--how
> does she know? Do I have Taco Bell written on my forehead? As it turned
> out, she was a friend of my daughter-in-law, Joy.
>
> Well, guess what? I have only eaten at a Taco Bell twice in the last ten
> years! And, those two times, I first went into the bathroom to check it
> out. What was I looking for? Well, Frosty Wooldridge explains it very
> well in his article--the workers from Mexico do not flush used toilet
> paper down the toilet. They just wipe and toss it in the trash can which
> is sitting beside the toilet bowl. I really began to notice this about
> ten years ago. I would go into the restroom, many which did not even
> have disposable hand towels, but instead they had the idiotic hand
> blowers. However, even in these restrooms which did not have disposable
> hand towels--they always had a trash can sitting beside the toilet. Why?
> Because management, many of whom were from the old country also--placed
> the trash cans there for their employees to use--to toss dirty, used
> toilet paper.
>
> A number of times, I went to the manager and asked why they had these
> trash cans sitting beside the toilet--when they did not have disposable
> paper towels--and everything else, toilet paper, seat covers, can be
> flushed. They could not give me an answer. I asked if they would be able
> to give the Health Department an answer. This has become a serious
> problem throughout the Taco Bell chain--and many other Mexican
> restaurants also.
>
> The rest of the story:
>
>
http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/19448.html

Fat-assed public wants that cheap.

ted
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


ted,
Based upon what I heard on a local call in radio show, illegal immigrants
that harvest crops (in America) do not walk several hundred yards to use
the stinking porti potties but instead deposit fecal material in the
middle of the fields and cover it with soil so the bosses don't see it.
Some of that fecal material may end up on various fruits and vegatables
that you may buy from grocery stores. That's the reason we wash all fruits
and vegetables. Whether or not that was the cause of the E coli--I don't
know. The rich people that own those large farms are blaming the E coli on
cow fecal material. I have yet to see a field of vegetables that had cows
wandering in it. The cows would eat the vegetables.
Jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Default Salad? -- E-Coli, Tb, Leprosy Dressing?

"Jason Johnson" > wrote in message
...
> In article . com>,
> wrote:
>
> johnny@. wrote:
> > by Bill Gray
> > October 19, 2006 01:54 PM EST
> >
> > The message below was sent to me by my high school classmate and Friend,
> > Fredda, and her husband, Jim Wolfe. My Friend, this really touched a
> > sore spot with me--for I have experienced much of what Frosty Wooldridge
> > is telling us in this very important article. It has become virtually
> > impossible to comfortably eat in a restaurant or fast food--because of
> > the lack of hygiene of the minimum wage "third world" workers in the
> > back.
> >
> > About fifteen years ago, Dory and I wanted to have a nice dinner near
> > the beach. At that time, there was a really neat little restaurant in
> > Laguna Beach across Pacific Coast Highway from the Laguna Hotel. And it
> > had a unique name: The Place Across The Street From The Laguna Hotel.
> > Honest, that was the name. What made it especially attractive on a nice
> > summer evening was that you could sit on the outside patio which was by
> > the sidewalk--and watch all the people strolling by. It was a really
> > neat place--until one memorable evening. Dory and I went there for
> > dinner and had a table on the street side patio. We ordered dinner and
> > were sipping a glass of wine. Then, I went to the bathroom. As I was
> > standing by the urinal, a young "third world" man came out of the toilet
> > cubicle--and walked right out the door--not bothering to even wet his
> > hands, much less wash them. Immediately, I followed to see where he
> > went. Guess what? He walked right into the kitchen and went back to
> > work.
> >
> > After washing MY hands, I went to our table and told Dory, "Let's go.
> > They can eat the dinners themselves." As we were leaving, I explained to
> > her what had happened. We have never been back to that restaurant since.
> >
> > I came to California first in 1958, went to Virginia and Washington DC
> > for a few years, and then in 1963 returned to California. That was about
> > the time that Taco Bell was started--and I fell in love with their food.
> > Over the years, I have eaten at Taco Bell so much, that even the
> > regional manager began to recognize me. All my friends knew of my
> > addiction to Taco Bell. About twelve years ago, I was ushering at our
> > church. A young couple that I had never seen before walked up to me and
> > said, "You really like Taco Bell, don't you?" My first reaction was--how
> > does she know? Do I have Taco Bell written on my forehead? As it turned
> > out, she was a friend of my daughter-in-law, Joy.
> >
> > Well, guess what? I have only eaten at a Taco Bell twice in the last ten
> > years! And, those two times, I first went into the bathroom to check it
> > out. What was I looking for? Well, Frosty Wooldridge explains it very
> > well in his article--the workers from Mexico do not flush used toilet
> > paper down the toilet. They just wipe and toss it in the trash can which
> > is sitting beside the toilet bowl. I really began to notice this about
> > ten years ago. I would go into the restroom, many which did not even
> > have disposable hand towels, but instead they had the idiotic hand
> > blowers. However, even in these restrooms which did not have disposable
> > hand towels--they always had a trash can sitting beside the toilet. Why?
> > Because management, many of whom were from the old country also--placed
> > the trash cans there for their employees to use--to toss dirty, used
> > toilet paper.
> >
> > A number of times, I went to the manager and asked why they had these
> > trash cans sitting beside the toilet--when they did not have disposable
> > paper towels--and everything else, toilet paper, seat covers, can be
> > flushed. They could not give me an answer. I asked if they would be able
> > to give the Health Department an answer. This has become a serious
> > problem throughout the Taco Bell chain--and many other Mexican
> > restaurants also.
> >
> > The rest of the story:
> >
> >
http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/19448.html
>
> Fat-assed public wants that cheap.
>
> ted
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
> ted,
> Based upon what I heard on a local call in radio show, illegal immigrants
> that harvest crops (in America) do not walk several hundred yards to use
> the stinking porti potties but instead deposit fecal material in the
> middle of the fields and cover it with soil so the bosses don't see it.
> Some of that fecal material may end up on various fruits and vegatables
> that you may buy from grocery stores. That's the reason we wash all fruits
> and vegetables. Whether or not that was the cause of the E coli--I don't
> know. The rich people that own those large farms are blaming the E coli on
> cow fecal material. I have yet to see a field of vegetables that had cows
> wandering in it. The cows would eat the vegetables.
> Jason
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Well, I thought that they spent a lot of money typing the E-coli and tracing
it back to the source which, in this case was a cattle farm.

I would think that a human with E-coli would be sick.

Anyway I listened to a local call in radio show and one caller said that he
was in the original Braceros, imported during the Eisenhower administration,
and that they could not be responsible because they all had corks in their
butts. It seems that they uncovered a brass lamp, and knowing the story,
rubbed it, and sure enough a genie came out and offered them uno, dos, tres
wishes. He said, "No shit?"


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Billzz wrote:
>
> I would think that a human with E-coli would be sick.


Everyone has E. coli in their systems. Not all strains are virulent
(make you sick).
-L.

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"-L." > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Billzz wrote:
>>
>> I would think that a human with E-coli would be sick.

>
> Everyone has E. coli in their systems. Not all strains are virulent
> (make you sick).
> -L.


Well you must be right because they had to "type" (whatever that means) the
certain strain of E. coli (thanks for the right spelling) to trace it back
to its origins. I just threw in a joke. Probably should not have done that.
Live and learn.




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Bob wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 18:12:19 -0700, (Jason Johnson)
> wrote:
>
>
> >Based upon what I heard on a local call in radio show, illegal immigrants
> >that harvest crops (in America) do not walk several hundred yards to use
> >the stinking porti potties but instead deposit fecal material in the
> >middle of the fields and cover it with soil so the bosses don't see it.

>
> What a sad reflection of how American business exploits workers!


Oh hell! American farm workers do this too. I detassled corn as a kid
and the boys shit in the fields all the time. The girls, at least,
were more couth.

>
> >Some of that fecal material may end up on various fruits and vegatables
> >that you may buy from grocery stores. That's the reason we wash all fruits
> >and vegetables. Whether or not that was the cause of the E coli--I don't
> >know.

>
> I have not heard of any cases of the disease among farm workers in the
> area. So it "unlikely" that they are the source. Does anyone know of
> any evidence to the contrary??


They will never come out and say so, but it is far more likely that the
virulent E. coli *is* from other humans. What makes me sick won't
necessarily make *you* sick if it is an endemic strain in your system.
The media will never report it as so, because A.) There is no way to
track which workers worked in which fields and shit there and B.) It
would be "politically incorrect" to do so, since the government (and
those who contribute to their re-election funds) has interest in
keeping cheap, foreign labor. It's much easier to blame cows.


>
> >The rich people that own those large farms are blaming the E coli on
> >cow fecal material. I have yet to see a field of vegetables that had cows
> >wandering in it. The cows would eat the vegetables.

>
> The cows are on the nearby hillsides. The problem is run-off.
>
> Cows can carry the toxin-producing strain of E coli without having
> symptoms; they are good carriers.
>
> (There are other animals that can carry it, but cows are the most
> common source. Infected beef is the major food problem.)


Nearly all mammals carry it. It's naturally in soil, too.

>
>
> The authorities are close to tracking this down, so we may know soon.
> One of the problems is that such events are "uncommon". Of course, as
> consumers, we think it is too often. But given all the fields, a
> couple such events per year is not many, and makes it hard to track
> them down, and to design better procedures.


It's such a small problem I suspect all the talk of "tracking it down"
is smoke and mirrors to appease the public. The government fails to
fund research on diseases which kill far more people, and they aren't
going to be too concerned about the few that died from E. coli in
spinach. If they were really concerned about food safety and public
heath they would better regulate the slaughterhouses which were
deregulated in the 80's during the Reagan admin.

-L.

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-L. wrote:
> They will never come out and say so, but it is far more likely that the
> virulent E. coli *is* from other humans. What makes me sick won't
> necessarily make *you* sick if it is an endemic strain in your system.
> The media will never report it as so, because A.) There is no way to
> track which workers worked in which fields and shit there and B.) It
> would be "politically incorrect" to do so, since the government (and
> those who contribute to their re-election funds) has interest in
> keeping cheap, foreign labor. It's much easier to blame cows.


Not true with Ecoli 0157. It is pathogenic and everyone gets sick if
they have it. It is not normal flora in humans. It is common in cows.
Epidemiology is not politically driven. The most common contamination
is from beef ie cows.
Again check the CDC site for facts concerning strain 0157. It is not
normal flora and no human carriers. This E coli is enteroinvasive and
causes disease when present in humans.
Unless you consider a recent worker coming in from far away with
diarrhea tracks from the country of origin into the fields, the
asymptomatic carrier working in the fields does not exist. It commonly
exists in cows.
As for cheap labor, Canada also brings in a lot of people from Mexico
to the fields up there.
It is an official binational workers program. It is what the president
here is asking for.
Take out Scimed from your cross-posting as it seems you guys are not
working on any medical facts but emotional basic instincts.

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-L. wrote:
> They will never come out and say so, but it is far more likely that the
> virulent E. coli *is* from other humans. What makes me sick won't
> necessarily make *you* sick if it is an endemic strain in your system.
> The media will never report it as so, because A.) There is no way to
> track which workers worked in which fields and shit there and B.) It
> would be "politically incorrect" to do so, since the government (and
> those who contribute to their re-election funds) has interest in
> keeping cheap, foreign labor. It's much easier to blame cows.


Not true with Ecoli 0157. It is pathogenic and everyone gets sick if
they have it. It is not normal flora in humans. It is common in cows.
Epidemiology is not politically driven. The most common contamination
is from beef ie cows.
Again check the CDC site for facts concerning strain 0157. It is not
normal flora and no human carriers. This E coli is enteroinvasive and
causes disease when present in humans.
Unless you consider a recent worker coming in from far away with
diarrhea tracks from the country of origin into the fields, the
asymptomatic carrier working in the fields does not exist. It commonly
exists in cows.
As for cheap labor, Canada also brings in a lot of people from Mexico
to the fields up there.
It is an official binational workers program. It is what the president
here is asking for.
Take out Scimed from your cross-posting as it seems you guys are not
working on any medical facts but emotional basic instincts.

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Robert1 wrote:
> -L. wrote:
> > They will never come out and say so, but it is far more likely that the
> > virulent E. coli *is* from other humans. What makes me sick won't
> > necessarily make *you* sick if it is an endemic strain in your system.
> > The media will never report it as so, because A.) There is no way to
> > track which workers worked in which fields and shit there and B.) It
> > would be "politically incorrect" to do so, since the government (and
> > those who contribute to their re-election funds) has interest in
> > keeping cheap, foreign labor. It's much easier to blame cows.

>
> Not true with Ecoli 0157. It is pathogenic and everyone gets sick if
> they have it.


Not true. See:

Epidemiol Infect. 2004 Oct;132(5):915-9. Asymptomatic carriage of
verocytotoxin-producing Escherichia coli O157 in farm workers in
Northern Italy.

* Silvestro L,
* Caputo M,
* Blancato S,
* Decastelli L,
* Fioravanti A,
* Tozzoli R,
* Morabito S,
* Caprioli A.

HTH,
-L.

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Robert1 wrote:
> -L. wrote:
> > They will never come out and say so, but it is far more likely that the
> > virulent E. coli *is* from other humans. What makes me sick won't
> > necessarily make *you* sick if it is an endemic strain in your system.
> > The media will never report it as so, because A.) There is no way to
> > track which workers worked in which fields and shit there and B.) It
> > would be "politically incorrect" to do so, since the government (and
> > those who contribute to their re-election funds) has interest in
> > keeping cheap, foreign labor. It's much easier to blame cows.

>
> Not true with Ecoli 0157. It is pathogenic and everyone gets sick if
> they have it.


See also:

Can Commun Dis Rep. 2004 Oct 15;30(20):173-80. Petting zoo-associated
Escherichia coli 0157:h7--secondary transmission, asymptomatic
infection, and prolonged shedding in the classroom.

* David ST,
* MacDougall L,
* Louie K,
* McIntyre L,
* Paccagnella AM,
* Schleicher S,
* Hamade A.

There are more, but you get my drift.

Have a nice day!

-L.



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In article .com>,
"Robert1" > wrote:

-L. wrote:
> They will never come out and say so, but it is far more likely that the
> virulent E. coli *is* from other humans. What makes me sick won't
> necessarily make *you* sick if it is an endemic strain in your system.
> The media will never report it as so, because A.) There is no way to
> track which workers worked in which fields and shit there and B.) It
> would be "politically incorrect" to do so, since the government (and
> those who contribute to their re-election funds) has interest in
> keeping cheap, foreign labor. It's much easier to blame cows.


Not true with Ecoli 0157. It is pathogenic and everyone gets sick if
they have it. It is not normal flora in humans. It is common in cows.
Epidemiology is not politically driven. The most common contamination
is from beef ie cows.
Again check the CDC site for facts concerning strain 0157. It is not
normal flora and no human carriers. This E coli is enteroinvasive and
causes disease when present in humans.
Unless you consider a recent worker coming in from far away with
diarrhea tracks from the country of origin into the fields, the
asymptomatic carrier working in the fields does not exist. It commonly
exists in cows.
As for cheap labor, Canada also brings in a lot of people from Mexico
to the fields up there.
It is an official binational workers program. It is what the president
here is asking for.
Take out Scimed from your cross-posting as it seems you guys are not
working on any medical facts but emotional basic instincts.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You made me laugh when you stated that Epidemiology is not politically driven.
AIDS and HIV were treated in a different way than Syphillis and Gonorrhea
were treated. Those employees that worked in clinics were required to
notify anyone that had had sex with people that had Syphillis and
Gonorrhea. For politically reasons, those same employees were not allowed
to even ask people that had HIV the names of the people that they had had
sex with. As a result AIDS spread quickly to thousands of people.
Decisions related to AIDS were based more on politics thand epidemiology.
Jason

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Default OT: Politics and epidemiology (was Salad? -- E-Coli, Tb, Leprosy Dressing?)


Jason Johnson wrote:
>
> You made me laugh when you stated that Epidemiology is not politically driven.
> AIDS and HIV were treated in a different way than Syphillis and Gonorrhea
> were treated. Those employees that worked in clinics were required to
> notify anyone that had had sex with people that had Syphillis and
> Gonorrhea. For politically reasons, those same employees were not allowed
> to even ask people that had HIV the names of the people that they had had
> sex with. As a result AIDS spread quickly to thousands of people.


I think that had to do more with Reagan's refusal to fund research and
eduucation about a "*** disease" than anything else. Had the word
gotten out 10 years eariler that this disease was not a "***" disease
and in fact, could infect anyone, there would have been- and still
would be - far fewer cases.

> Decisions related to AIDS were based more on politics thand epidemiology.


Totally about politics, in the case of HIV.

-L.

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Default Politics and epidemiology (was Salad? -- E-Coli, Tb, Leprosy Dressing?)

Please don't cross-post to the frugal living group.


"-L." > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Jason Johnson wrote:
>>
>> You made me laugh when you stated that Epidemiology is not politically
>> driven.
>> AIDS and HIV were treated in a different way than Syphillis and Gonorrhea
>> were treated. Those employees that worked in clinics were required to
>> notify anyone that had had sex with people that had Syphillis and
>> Gonorrhea. For politically reasons, those same employees were not allowed
>> to even ask people that had HIV the names of the people that they had had
>> sex with. As a result AIDS spread quickly to thousands of people.

>
> I think that had to do more with Reagan's refusal to fund research and
> eduucation about a "*** disease" than anything else. Had the word
> gotten out 10 years eariler that this disease was not a "***" disease
> and in fact, could infect anyone, there would have been- and still
> would be - far fewer cases.
>
>> Decisions related to AIDS were based more on politics thand epidemiology.

>
> Totally about politics, in the case of HIV.
>
> -L.
>



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-L. wrote:
> Robert1 wrote:
> > -L. wrote:
> > > They will never come out and say so, but it is far more likely that the
> > > virulent E. coli *is* from other humans. What makes me sick won't
> > > necessarily make *you* sick if it is an endemic strain in your system.
> > > The media will never report it as so, because A.) There is no way to
> > > track which workers worked in which fields and shit there and B.) It
> > > would be "politically incorrect" to do so, since the government (and
> > > those who contribute to their re-election funds) has interest in
> > > keeping cheap, foreign labor. It's much easier to blame cows.

> >
> > Not true with Ecoli 0157. It is pathogenic and everyone gets sick if
> > they have it.

>
> See also:
>
> Can Commun Dis Rep. 2004 Oct 15;30(20):173-80. Petting zoo-associated
> Escherichia coli 0157:h7--secondary transmission, asymptomatic
> infection, and prolonged shedding in the classroom.
>
> * David ST,
> * MacDougall L,
> * Louie K,
> * McIntyre L,
> * Paccagnella AM,
> * Schleicher S,
> * Hamade A.
>
> There are more, but you get my drift.
>
> Have a nice day!
>
> -L.


These are all acute and post-infection and not chronic carrier states.
After infection a person may have it for a week or so.

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Default Salad? -- E-Coli, Tb, Leprosy Dressing?

In article . com>,
"Robert1" > wrote:

-L. wrote:
> Robert1 wrote:
> > -L. wrote:
> > > They will never come out and say so, but it is far more likely that the
> > > virulent E. coli *is* from other humans. What makes me sick won't
> > > necessarily make *you* sick if it is an endemic strain in your system.
> > > The media will never report it as so, because A.) There is no way to
> > > track which workers worked in which fields and shit there and B.) It
> > > would be "politically incorrect" to do so, since the government (and
> > > those who contribute to their re-election funds) has interest in
> > > keeping cheap, foreign labor. It's much easier to blame cows.

> >
> > Not true with Ecoli 0157. It is pathogenic and everyone gets sick if
> > they have it.

>
> See also:
>
> Can Commun Dis Rep. 2004 Oct 15;30(20):173-80. Petting zoo-associated
> Escherichia coli 0157:h7--secondary transmission, asymptomatic
> infection, and prolonged shedding in the classroom.
>
> * David ST,
> * MacDougall L,
> * Louie K,
> * McIntyre L,
> * Paccagnella AM,
> * Schleicher S,
> * Hamade A.
>
> There are more, but you get my drift.
>
> Have a nice day!
>
> -L.


These are all acute and post-infection and not chronic carrier states.
After infection a person may have it for a week or so.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Robert,
Do you believe that they should or should not conduct E coli tests on all
of the people that may have had contact with any vegetables that caused
people to develop E-coli infections?
I doubt that the gov't will do this in this case since they don't want to
be accused of being racists. It's my guess that most of the illegal
immigrants that worked at those farms are now working at other farms so it
would be difficult to track them down and test them for E-coli. They
should have done those tests the same week that they found out the the
source of the E-coli.
Jason


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Default Salad? -- E-Coli, Tb, Leprosy Dressing?


-L. wrote:
> Robert1 wrote:
> > -L. wrote:
> > > They will never come out and say so, but it is far more likely that the
> > > virulent E. coli *is* from other humans. What makes me sick won't
> > > necessarily make *you* sick if it is an endemic strain in your system.
> > > The media will never report it as so, because A.) There is no way to
> > > track which workers worked in which fields and shit there and B.) It
> > > would be "politically incorrect" to do so, since the government (and
> > > those who contribute to their re-election funds) has interest in
> > > keeping cheap, foreign labor. It's much easier to blame cows.

> >
> > Not true with Ecoli 0157. It is pathogenic and everyone gets sick if
> > they have it.

>
> Not true. See:
>
> Epidemiol Infect. 2004 Oct;132(5):915-9. Asymptomatic carriage of
> verocytotoxin-producing Escherichia coli O157 in farm workers in
> Northern Italy.
>
> * Silvestro L,
> * Caputo M,
> * Blancato S,
> * Decastelli L,
> * Fioravanti A,
> * Tozzoli R,
> * Morabito S,
> * Caprioli A.
>
> HTH,
> -L.


Couple of points.

They took farm workers and tested their stools and found some positive
for 0157. They checked to see if they had symptoms. They didn't. This
does not prove a chronic carrier state. They postulated CHRONIC
EXPOSURE to 0157 as the cause of this asymptomatic state. They did not
go back and re culture over time in order to prove chronicity. They are
basically speculating.

The other most basic point to all of this is the implication that 0157
is prevalent and many chronic carrier cases exist out there. If 1% of
all farm workers have 0157 then there would be cases every day out
there of people coming down with symptomatic 0157 because of such
exposure to produce. There isn't. Farm workers have not changed
anything over the years and if they have it's been to the better in
limiting exposure to Ecoli. Working conditions have actually improved,
believe it or not with contracts and unions.

The bottom line to all of this is there is no chronic positives being
picked up on routine stool cultures in clinical use. Such a high
carrier rate of 1% would carry on to the general population and it
isn't there. There is no increase in HUS with distinct laboratory
parameters.
I can only recall of one verified case all these past years at our
institution. There is a nation wide alert with all eyes on this
epidemic. The number of cultures being processed for all diarrhea cases
is huge. Ecoli 0157 is just not out there. It is very easy to culture
and the cases you cited are good examples on how easy it is to find.

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Jason Johnson wrote:
> In article . com>,
> "Robert1" > wrote:
>
> -L. wrote:
> > Robert1 wrote:
> > > -L. wrote:
> > > > They will never come out and say so, but it is far more likely that the
> > > > virulent E. coli *is* from other humans. What makes me sick won't
> > > > necessarily make *you* sick if it is an endemic strain in your system.
> > > > The media will never report it as so, because A.) There is no way to
> > > > track which workers worked in which fields and shit there and B.) It
> > > > would be "politically incorrect" to do so, since the government (and
> > > > those who contribute to their re-election funds) has interest in
> > > > keeping cheap, foreign labor. It's much easier to blame cows.
> > >
> > > Not true with Ecoli 0157. It is pathogenic and everyone gets sick if
> > > they have it.

> >
> > See also:
> >
> > Can Commun Dis Rep. 2004 Oct 15;30(20):173-80. Petting zoo-associated
> > Escherichia coli 0157:h7--secondary transmission, asymptomatic
> > infection, and prolonged shedding in the classroom.
> >
> > * David ST,
> > * MacDougall L,
> > * Louie K,
> > * McIntyre L,
> > * Paccagnella AM,
> > * Schleicher S,
> > * Hamade A.
> >
> > There are more, but you get my drift.
> >
> > Have a nice day!
> >
> > -L.

>
> These are all acute and post-infection and not chronic carrier states.
> After infection a person may have it for a week or so.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Robert,
> Do you believe that they should or should not conduct E coli tests on all
> of the people that may have had contact with any vegetables that caused
> people to develop E-coli infections?
> I doubt that the gov't will do this in this case since they don't want to
> be accused of being racists. It's my guess that most of the illegal
> immigrants that worked at those farms are now working at other farms so it
> would be difficult to track them down and test them for E-coli. They
> should have done those tests the same week that they found out the the
> source of the E-coli.
> Jason


Ecoli 0157 testing has been around for a long time. This is not
something that was just discovered. There are selective media that can
be used and was routinely included in all stool cultures in our
institution for years.

http://service.merck.de/microbiology...4036_0500.html

There was no positives out there. We don't have a population out there
with chronic carrier states. Epidemiologists work with the facts in
front of them. They trail the facts like in CSI investigations. If the
contention is that farm workers have chronic infections then they can
take any farm workers from any farm and see the rate of infection. Not
hard to do. There is no need to test that specific farm or farm worker
is denote a systemic problem. If it is an isolated outbreak, meaning it
is not system wide then they need to localize it to a specific farm and
or worker. The fact that they localized it already to a specific farm
means it is not system wide as other cases not picked up previously
would expand it across the nation. They would say that 1% of farm
workers from across the nation are spreading infections to the entire
country. Follow the facts.

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Default Salad? -- E-Coli, Tb, Leprosy Dressing?


Jason Johnson wrote:
> In article .com>,
> "Robert1" > wrote:
>
> -L. wrote:
> > They will never come out and say so, but it is far more likely that the
> > virulent E. coli *is* from other humans. What makes me sick won't
> > necessarily make *you* sick if it is an endemic strain in your system.
> > The media will never report it as so, because A.) There is no way to
> > track which workers worked in which fields and shit there and B.) It
> > would be "politically incorrect" to do so, since the government (and
> > those who contribute to their re-election funds) has interest in
> > keeping cheap, foreign labor. It's much easier to blame cows.

>
> Not true with Ecoli 0157. It is pathogenic and everyone gets sick if
> they have it. It is not normal flora in humans. It is common in cows.
> Epidemiology is not politically driven. The most common contamination
> is from beef ie cows.
> Again check the CDC site for facts concerning strain 0157. It is not
> normal flora and no human carriers. This E coli is enteroinvasive and
> causes disease when present in humans.
> Unless you consider a recent worker coming in from far away with
> diarrhea tracks from the country of origin into the fields, the
> asymptomatic carrier working in the fields does not exist. It commonly
> exists in cows.
> As for cheap labor, Canada also brings in a lot of people from Mexico
> to the fields up there.
> It is an official binational workers program. It is what the president
> here is asking for.
> Take out Scimed from your cross-posting as it seems you guys are not
> working on any medical facts but emotional basic instincts.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> You made me laugh when you stated that Epidemiology is not politically driven.
> AIDS and HIV were treated in a different way than Syphillis and Gonorrhea
> were treated. Those employees that worked in clinics were required to
> notify anyone that had had sex with people that had Syphillis and
> Gonorrhea. For politically reasons, those same employees were not allowed
> to even ask people that had HIV the names of the people that they had had
> sex with. As a result AIDS spread quickly to thousands of people.
> Decisions related to AIDS were based more on politics thand epidemiology.
> Jason
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Epidemiology is how a disease is spread. It is not politically driven.
What one does with such epimiological data is politically driven. The
basic science is not political.

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Default Salad? -- E-Coli, Tb, Leprosy Dressing?

In article .com>,
"Robert1" > wrote:

-L. wrote:
> Robert1 wrote:
> > -L. wrote:
> > > They will never come out and say so, but it is far more likely that the
> > > virulent E. coli *is* from other humans. What makes me sick won't
> > > necessarily make *you* sick if it is an endemic strain in your system.
> > > The media will never report it as so, because A.) There is no way to
> > > track which workers worked in which fields and shit there and B.) It
> > > would be "politically incorrect" to do so, since the government (and
> > > those who contribute to their re-election funds) has interest in
> > > keeping cheap, foreign labor. It's much easier to blame cows.

> >
> > Not true with Ecoli 0157. It is pathogenic and everyone gets sick if
> > they have it.

>
> Not true. See:
>
> Epidemiol Infect. 2004 Oct;132(5):915-9. Asymptomatic carriage of
> verocytotoxin-producing Escherichia coli O157 in farm workers in
> Northern Italy.
>
> * Silvestro L,
> * Caputo M,
> * Blancato S,
> * Decastelli L,
> * Fioravanti A,
> * Tozzoli R,
> * Morabito S,
> * Caprioli A.
>
> HTH,
> -L.


Couple of points.

They took farm workers and tested their stools and found some positive
for 0157. They checked to see if they had symptoms. They didn't. This
does not prove a chronic carrier state. They postulated CHRONIC
EXPOSURE to 0157 as the cause of this asymptomatic state. They did not
go back and re culture over time in order to prove chronicity. They are
basically speculating.

The other most basic point to all of this is the implication that 0157
is prevalent and many chronic carrier cases exist out there. If 1% of
all farm workers have 0157 then there would be cases every day out
there of people coming down with symptomatic 0157 because of such
exposure to produce. There isn't. Farm workers have not changed
anything over the years and if they have it's been to the better in
limiting exposure to Ecoli. Working conditions have actually improved,
believe it or not with contracts and unions.

The bottom line to all of this is there is no chronic positives being
picked up on routine stool cultures in clinical use. Such a high
carrier rate of 1% would carry on to the general population and it
isn't there. There is no increase in HUS with distinct laboratory
parameters.
I can only recall of one verified case all these past years at our
institution. There is a nation wide alert with all eyes on this
epidemic. The number of cultures being processed for all diarrhea cases
is huge. Ecoli 0157 is just not out there. It is very easy to culture
and the cases you cited are good examples on how easy it is to find.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

One point of disagreement:
If an illegal immigrant had E-coli and handled lots of vegetables during a
week, it's unlikely that he would spread the E-coli to the people that
later ate those vegetables since most companies do a great job of
processing the vegetables. In this case, it's very possible that the
company failed to do a great job related to processing the vegetables that
caused some people to develop E-coli. The investigators are now blaming
the problem on cattle. That means they can avoid forcing illegal
immigrants to have E-coli tests. That's a wise move since they can avoid
being called racists for forcing illegal immigrants to have E-coli tests.
Jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Default Salad? -- E-Coli, Tb, Leprosy Dressing?

In article .com>,
"Robert1" > wrote:

Jason Johnson wrote:
> In article .com>,
> "Robert1" > wrote:
>
> -L. wrote:
> > They will never come out and say so, but it is far more likely that the
> > virulent E. coli *is* from other humans. What makes me sick won't
> > necessarily make *you* sick if it is an endemic strain in your system.
> > The media will never report it as so, because A.) There is no way to
> > track which workers worked in which fields and shit there and B.) It
> > would be "politically incorrect" to do so, since the government (and
> > those who contribute to their re-election funds) has interest in
> > keeping cheap, foreign labor. It's much easier to blame cows.

>
> Not true with Ecoli 0157. It is pathogenic and everyone gets sick if
> they have it. It is not normal flora in humans. It is common in cows.
> Epidemiology is not politically driven. The most common contamination
> is from beef ie cows.
> Again check the CDC site for facts concerning strain 0157. It is not
> normal flora and no human carriers. This E coli is enteroinvasive and
> causes disease when present in humans.
> Unless you consider a recent worker coming in from far away with
> diarrhea tracks from the country of origin into the fields, the
> asymptomatic carrier working in the fields does not exist. It commonly
> exists in cows.
> As for cheap labor, Canada also brings in a lot of people from Mexico
> to the fields up there.
> It is an official binational workers program. It is what the president
> here is asking for.
> Take out Scimed from your cross-posting as it seems you guys are not
> working on any medical facts but emotional basic instincts.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> You made me laugh when you stated that Epidemiology is not politically

driven.
> AIDS and HIV were treated in a different way than Syphillis and Gonorrhea
> were treated. Those employees that worked in clinics were required to
> notify anyone that had had sex with people that had Syphillis and
> Gonorrhea. For politically reasons, those same employees were not allowed
> to even ask people that had HIV the names of the people that they had had
> sex with. As a result AIDS spread quickly to thousands of people.
> Decisions related to AIDS were based more on politics thand epidemiology.
> Jason
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Epidemiology is how a disease is spread. It is not politically driven.
What one does with such epimiological data is politically driven. The
basic science is not political.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That's true. In this case, the decision to not test the illegal immigrants
that came into contact with the spinach that was contaminated with E-coli
was a political decision. In my opinion, the decision to blame the E-coli
on cattle instead of illegal immigrants was based on politics. It was a
politically correct decision to avoid being called racists. They are not
even planning to test any of the workers (regardless of race) for
E-coli--that was a political
decision.
I was having a hard time spelling "spinach". I typed "spinish" into my
spell checker and the spell checker provided the word "Spanish". Did my
spell checker make a Freudian slip?
Jason


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Default Salad? -- E-Coli, Tb, Leprosy Dressing?

"Jason Johnson" > wrote in message
...
> In article .com>,
> "Robert1" > wrote:
>
> Jason Johnson wrote:
> > In article .com>,
> > "Robert1" > wrote:
> >
> > -L. wrote:
> > > They will never come out and say so, but it is far more likely that

> > the
> > > virulent E. coli *is* from other humans. What makes me sick won't
> > > necessarily make *you* sick if it is an endemic strain in your

> > system.
> > > The media will never report it as so, because A.) There is no way to
> > > track which workers worked in which fields and shit there and B.) It
> > > would be "politically incorrect" to do so, since the government (and
> > > those who contribute to their re-election funds) has interest in
> > > keeping cheap, foreign labor. It's much easier to blame cows.

> >
> > Not true with Ecoli 0157. It is pathogenic and everyone gets sick if
> > they have it. It is not normal flora in humans. It is common in cows.
> > Epidemiology is not politically driven. The most common contamination
> > is from beef ie cows.
> > Again check the CDC site for facts concerning strain 0157. It is not
> > normal flora and no human carriers. This E coli is enteroinvasive and
> > causes disease when present in humans.
> > Unless you consider a recent worker coming in from far away with
> > diarrhea tracks from the country of origin into the fields, the
> > asymptomatic carrier working in the fields does not exist. It commonly
> > exists in cows.
> > As for cheap labor, Canada also brings in a lot of people from Mexico
> > to the fields up there.
> > It is an official binational workers program. It is what the president
> > here is asking for.
> > Take out Scimed from your cross-posting as it seems you guys are not
> > working on any medical facts but emotional basic instincts.
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > You made me laugh when you stated that Epidemiology is not politically

> driven.
> > AIDS and HIV were treated in a different way than Syphillis and
> > Gonorrhea
> > were treated. Those employees that worked in clinics were required to
> > notify anyone that had had sex with people that had Syphillis and
> > Gonorrhea. For politically reasons, those same employees were not
> > allowed
> > to even ask people that had HIV the names of the people that they had
> > had
> > sex with. As a result AIDS spread quickly to thousands of people.
> > Decisions related to AIDS were based more on politics thand
> > epidemiology.
> > Jason
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>
> Epidemiology is how a disease is spread. It is not politically driven.
> What one does with such epimiological data is politically driven. The
> basic science is not political.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> That's true. In this case, the decision to not test the illegal immigrants
> that came into contact with the spinach that was contaminated with E-coli
> was a political decision. In my opinion, the decision to blame the E-coli
> on cattle instead of illegal immigrants was based on politics. It was a
> politically correct decision to avoid being called racists. They are not
> even planning to test any of the workers (regardless of race) for
> E-coli--that was a political
> decision.
> I was having a hard time spelling "spinach". I typed "spinish" into my
> spell checker and the spell checker provided the word "Spanish". Did my
> spell checker make a Freudian slip?
> Jason


Does it really matter? I mean, in general, E. coli is native to our
intestines and no other place in our bodies. I've read that sepsis was a
more common cause of death in wounded soldiers than the bullet wounds (to
the lower abdomen). My understanding is that we do NOT develop immunity to
the E. coli in our own intestines, assuming the bacteria spreads to other
areas.


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Default Salad? -- E-Coli, Tb, Leprosy Dressing?


Jason Johnson wrote:
> In article .com>,
> "Robert1" > wrote:
>
> Jason Johnson wrote:
> > In article .com>,
> > "Robert1" > wrote:
> >
> > -L. wrote:
> > > They will never come out and say so, but it is far more likely that the
> > > virulent E. coli *is* from other humans. What makes me sick won't
> > > necessarily make *you* sick if it is an endemic strain in your system.
> > > The media will never report it as so, because A.) There is no way to
> > > track which workers worked in which fields and shit there and B.) It
> > > would be "politically incorrect" to do so, since the government (and
> > > those who contribute to their re-election funds) has interest in
> > > keeping cheap, foreign labor. It's much easier to blame cows.

> >
> > Not true with Ecoli 0157. It is pathogenic and everyone gets sick if
> > they have it. It is not normal flora in humans. It is common in cows.
> > Epidemiology is not politically driven. The most common contamination
> > is from beef ie cows.
> > Again check the CDC site for facts concerning strain 0157. It is not
> > normal flora and no human carriers. This E coli is enteroinvasive and
> > causes disease when present in humans.
> > Unless you consider a recent worker coming in from far away with
> > diarrhea tracks from the country of origin into the fields, the
> > asymptomatic carrier working in the fields does not exist. It commonly
> > exists in cows.
> > As for cheap labor, Canada also brings in a lot of people from Mexico
> > to the fields up there.
> > It is an official binational workers program. It is what the president
> > here is asking for.
> > Take out Scimed from your cross-posting as it seems you guys are not
> > working on any medical facts but emotional basic instincts.
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > You made me laugh when you stated that Epidemiology is not politically

> driven.
> > AIDS and HIV were treated in a different way than Syphillis and Gonorrhea
> > were treated. Those employees that worked in clinics were required to
> > notify anyone that had had sex with people that had Syphillis and
> > Gonorrhea. For politically reasons, those same employees were not allowed
> > to even ask people that had HIV the names of the people that they had had
> > sex with. As a result AIDS spread quickly to thousands of people.
> > Decisions related to AIDS were based more on politics thand epidemiology.
> > Jason
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>
> Epidemiology is how a disease is spread. It is not politically driven.
> What one does with such epimiological data is politically driven. The
> basic science is not political.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> That's true. In this case, the decision to not test the illegal immigrants
> that came into contact with the spinach that was contaminated with E-coli
> was a political decision. In my opinion, the decision to blame the E-coli
> on cattle instead of illegal immigrants was based on politics. It was a
> politically correct decision to avoid being called racists. They are not
> even planning to test any of the workers (regardless of race) for
> E-coli--that was a political
> decision.
> I was having a hard time spelling "spinach". I typed "spinish" into my
> spell checker and the spell checker provided the word "Spanish". Did my
> spell checker make a Freudian slip?
> Jason


That's your opinion. The CDC investigation is non-political. If you
want to believe that every decision they make is political then you are
welcome to that.
You will just have to live with it then. Don't eat fresh produce and
don't eat in Mexican fast food joints where they don't wash their hands
after they pee. Don't eat salsa.

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In article . com>,
"Robert1" > wrote:

Jason Johnson wrote:
> In article .com>,
> "Robert1" > wrote:
>
> Jason Johnson wrote:
> > In article .com>,
> > "Robert1" > wrote:
> >
> > -L. wrote:
> > > They will never come out and say so, but it is far more likely that the
> > > virulent E. coli *is* from other humans. What makes me sick won't
> > > necessarily make *you* sick if it is an endemic strain in your system.
> > > The media will never report it as so, because A.) There is no way to
> > > track which workers worked in which fields and shit there and B.) It
> > > would be "politically incorrect" to do so, since the government (and
> > > those who contribute to their re-election funds) has interest in
> > > keeping cheap, foreign labor. It's much easier to blame cows.

> >
> > Not true with Ecoli 0157. It is pathogenic and everyone gets sick if
> > they have it. It is not normal flora in humans. It is common in cows.
> > Epidemiology is not politically driven. The most common contamination
> > is from beef ie cows.
> > Again check the CDC site for facts concerning strain 0157. It is not
> > normal flora and no human carriers. This E coli is enteroinvasive and
> > causes disease when present in humans.
> > Unless you consider a recent worker coming in from far away with
> > diarrhea tracks from the country of origin into the fields, the
> > asymptomatic carrier working in the fields does not exist. It commonly
> > exists in cows.
> > As for cheap labor, Canada also brings in a lot of people from Mexico
> > to the fields up there.
> > It is an official binational workers program. It is what the president
> > here is asking for.
> > Take out Scimed from your cross-posting as it seems you guys are not
> > working on any medical facts but emotional basic instincts.
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > You made me laugh when you stated that Epidemiology is not politically

> driven.
> > AIDS and HIV were treated in a different way than Syphillis and Gonorrhea
> > were treated. Those employees that worked in clinics were required to
> > notify anyone that had had sex with people that had Syphillis and
> > Gonorrhea. For politically reasons, those same employees were not allowed
> > to even ask people that had HIV the names of the people that they had had
> > sex with. As a result AIDS spread quickly to thousands of people.
> > Decisions related to AIDS were based more on politics thand epidemiology.
> > Jason
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>
> Epidemiology is how a disease is spread. It is not politically driven.
> What one does with such epimiological data is politically driven. The
> basic science is not political.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> That's true. In this case, the decision to not test the illegal immigrants
> that came into contact with the spinach that was contaminated with E-coli
> was a political decision. In my opinion, the decision to blame the E-coli
> on cattle instead of illegal immigrants was based on politics. It was a
> politically correct decision to avoid being called racists. They are not
> even planning to test any of the workers (regardless of race) for
> E-coli--that was a political
> decision.
> I was having a hard time spelling "spinach". I typed "spinish" into my
> spell checker and the spell checker provided the word "Spanish". Did my
> spell checker make a Freudian slip?
> Jason


That's your opinion. The CDC investigation is non-political. If you
want to believe that every decision they make is political then you are
welcome to that.
You will just have to live with it then. Don't eat fresh produce and
don't eat in Mexican fast food joints where they don't wash their hands
after they pee. Don't eat salsa.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Last year, the morning after pill was placed on a fast track for approval.
Do you believe that it was or was not a political decision?
I should note that about a dozen women have died as a result of taking the
morning after pill but they still want to make it an "over the counter"
medication. If they start selling it over the counter--do you think that
would be or would not be a political decision?
It's my opinion that the CDC investigation is political. I don't blame
them for blaming the E-coli on cattle. They will NEVER have to worry about
being called raciest. When a gov't employee is accused of being a
racist--that's is
a career ender. They could either get fired or they will never be given a
promotion.
Jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Actually, yes E. coli is present in the human digestive tract, but ALL
strains will make you sick (and it's a bacterial infection, not viral) given
the correct dosage (very small).

"-L." > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Billzz wrote:
>>
>> I would think that a human with E-coli would be sick.

>
> Everyone has E. coli in their systems. Not all strains are virulent
> (make you sick).
> -L.
>



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glenn P wrote:
> Actually, yes E. coli is present in the human digestive tract, but ALL
> strains will make you sick


No they don't. Otherwise you would be sick all the time.



>(and it's a bacterial infection, not viral)


<sigh> Look at definition number 2....

vir·u·lent (vîry-lnt, vîr-) KEY

ADJECTIVE:

1.
1. Extremely infectious, malignant, or poisonous. Used of a
disease or toxin.
2. Capable of causing disease by breaking down protective
mechanisms of the host. Used of a pathogen.


> given
> the correct dosage (very small).


Any emetic or diarrhea-causing bacteria has its own dosage limitation,
which depends, among other things, on the host. That's why two people
can eat the same bacterial-laden food, and one gets sick and other
does not.

-L.



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Robert1 wrote:
> Epidemiology is how a disease is spread. It is not politically driven.
> What one does with such epimiological data is politically driven. The
> basic science is not political.


Wrong. Epidemiology is the branch of science which addresses how
diseases originate, spread and are controlled. How of IF a disease is
controlled often *is* a political decision.

-L.

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"Bob" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 10:44:20 +1000, "glenn P" >
> wrote:
>
>>Actually, yes E. coli is present in the human digestive tract, but ALL
>>strains will make you sick (and it's a bacterial infection, not viral)
>>given
>>the correct dosage (very small).

>
> There has been much confusion in this thread between E coli and E
> coli.
>
> The E coli in question (O157:H7) is a very distinct strain, which
> makes a dangerous toxin.
>


Yes, this causes the haemorragic symptoms that can be life threatening.


> Any talk about what other E coli are in our system, or what their
> effects are, are absolutely irrelevant. (The common E coli in our gut
> are harmless -- so long as they stay in gut. But that tells you


You are Wrong.

The "harmless" strains only cause less severe symptoms than the O157:h7
strain. Depending on the patient's pre-existing situation, this can be
either distressing, or threatening.

I have no idea what your reference to irrelevance is.

Google will only take you so far......

> nothing about the toxin strain of interest here.)
>
> bob
>




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Oh, man - this post is a good one. So, if one has a potential pathogen in
their body, it makes them sick. Is that what you are saying???

I think this is covered in sixth form biology, but you don't need to take my
word for it.

As for your definitions of a word, E. coli is a BACTERIA. It is not a
disease, nor a toxin (except for the strain that produces a toxin
by-product). Wikipedia, or Google often have problems sorting this out for
you.

Your last paragraph shows insight, pity that's not your angle on infection
by bacterium in general.

Thanks for your feedback!


"-L." > wrote in message
ups.com...

glenn P wrote:
> Actually, yes E. coli is present in the human digestive tract, but ALL
> strains will make you sick


No they don't. Otherwise you would be sick all the time.


>(and it's a bacterial infection, not viral)


<sigh> Look at definition number 2....

vir·u·lent (vîry-lnt, vîr-) KEY

ADJECTIVE:

1.
1. Extremely infectious, malignant, or poisonous. Used of a
disease or toxin.
2. Capable of causing disease by breaking down protective
mechanisms of the host. Used of a pathogen.


> given
> the correct dosage (very small).


Any emetic or diarrhea-causing bacteria has its own dosage limitation,
which depends, among other things, on the host. That's why two people
can eat the same bacterial-laden food, and one gets sick and other
does not.

-L.


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glenn P wrote:
> Oh, man - this post is a good one. So, if one has a potential pathogen in
> their body, it makes them sick. Is that what you are saying???


Are you obtuse on purpose or just stupid? I just have to ask...

No, that is not what I am saying at all. Whether or not one gets sick
from any potentially virulent microorganism depends, in part, on the
state of their health, the method of inocuulation, incubation period
and conditions, etc. It isn't dependant upon just whether or not one
has been exposed.

>
> I think this is covered in sixth form biology, but you don't need to take my
> word for it.
>
> As for your definitions of a word, E. coli is a BACTERIA.


Well no shit Sherlock. I never said it wasn't. You seemed to think
because I used the term "virulent" that I meant "virus". Which is just
stupid. But there are strains of viruses that can become virulent.
Not to confuse your pea brain.


> It is not a
> disease, nor a toxin (except for the strain that produces a toxin
> by-product)


There is no "the strain" that produces a "toxin" or "toxin
by-product". Many different strains of E. coli produce many different
types of "toxins" . And by default if they produce "toxins" there are
by-products of those "toxins" produced as well. But most E. coli
"toxins" do not affect humans.


> Wikipedia, or Google often have problems sorting this out for
> you.
>
> Your last paragraph shows insight, pity that's not your angle on infection
> by bacterium in general.


First of all, it's "infection by bacteria" or "infection by a
bacterium". You don't even know the difference between singular and
plural. So save your breath.

And you are way over your head here. I was a molecular biologist for
15 years and I worked on emetic strains of Bacillus cereus, among other
things. So I know a little bit about enterotoxins.

-L.

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In article >, Bob
> wrote:

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 18:12:19 -0700, (Jason Johnson)
wrote:

> I have yet to see a field of vegetables that had cows
>wandering in it. The cows would eat the vegetables.


You may have inadvertently stumbled close to the truth. Current
suggestion (news a couple days ago) is that the E coli O157:H7 may
have been transmitted by wild pigs that got into the field -- after
breaking down fences. (I don't know details -- just news story.)

The important part of the story is that they have identified cows and
pigs near the suspect farm that carry the particular strain. And
apparently, broken fences!

bob

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

bob,
That could explain how the spinach became contaminated with E coli.
However, there were workers in that field that were illegal immigrants. As
you may know, most farm workers in Mexico do NOT have porti potties in
those fields or near those fields. The workers walk away from the main
group of workers and urinate and place their fecal material next to the
vegetables and cover it up. They walk back to the main group of workers
(without washing their hands) and continue to work. Those workers continue
that habit when they come to America. The porti potties are located near
the fields in America but many workers do not use the stinking porti
potties. It's the guess of many people that some of the fecal material
that was in the spinach fields was mixed with the spinach.
At the very least, every worker that worked in those spinach fields that
were contaminated with E coli should have been tested for E coli. Every
worker that worked in the facilties that processed that spinach should
have been tested for E coli. The reason this was NOT done is probably
because the government employees that are conducting the investigation do
NOT want to be called raciest as a result of forcing Mexicans to be
tested. When a government worker is labelled a raciest--it's a career
ender. Those government workers could be fired or NEVER promoted. I know
this is true since I worked for the state government for over 28 years
before I retired.
Jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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On 31 Oct 2006 I stormed the castle called alt.food.vegan and heard
Jason Johnson cry out in
...

> In article >, Bob
> > wrote:
>
> On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 18:12:19 -0700, (Jason Johnson)
> wrote:
>
> > I have yet to see a field of vegetables that had cows
> >wandering in it. The cows would eat the vegetables.

>
> You may have inadvertently stumbled close to the truth. Current
> suggestion (news a couple days ago) is that the E coli O157:H7 may
> have been transmitted by wild pigs that got into the field -- after
> breaking down fences. (I don't know details -- just news story.)



Apparently there was a herd of cows nearby, seperated from the spinach
field by fences. They found part of the fence had been broken and
evidence that feral pigs had used those holes to move between the fields.
They also recently found that very strain of E.Coli in the intenstines of
one of the pigs that was found dead nearby.





>
> The important part of the story is that they have identified cows and
> pigs near the suspect farm that carry the particular strain. And
> apparently, broken fences!
>
> bob
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> bob,
> That could explain how the spinach became contaminated with E coli.
> However, there were workers in that field that were illegal
> immigrants. As you may know, most farm workers in Mexico do NOT have
> porti potties in those fields or near those fields. The workers walk
> away from the main group of workers and urinate and place their fecal
> material next to the vegetables and cover it up. They walk back to the
> main group of workers (without washing their hands) and continue to
> work. Those workers continue that habit when they come to America. The
> porti potties are located near the fields in America but many workers
> do not use the stinking porti potties. It's the guess of many people
> that some of the fecal material that was in the spinach fields was
> mixed with the spinach. At the very least, every worker that worked in
> those spinach fields that were contaminated with E coli should have
> been tested for E coli. Every worker that worked in the facilties that
> processed that spinach should have been tested for E coli. The reason
> this was NOT done is probably because the government employees that
> are conducting the investigation do NOT want to be called raciest as a
> result of forcing Mexicans to be tested. When a government worker is
> labelled a raciest--it's a career ender. Those government workers
> could be fired or NEVER promoted. I know this is true since I worked
> for the state government for over 28 years before I retired.
> Jason
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>




--
ThePsyko
Public Enemy #7



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"ThePsyko" > wrote in message
t...
> On 31 Oct 2006 I stormed the castle called alt.food.vegan and heard
> Jason Johnson cry out in
> ...
>
>> In article >, Bob
>> > wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 18:12:19 -0700, (Jason Johnson)
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I have yet to see a field of vegetables that had cows
>> >wandering in it. The cows would eat the vegetables.

>>
>> You may have inadvertently stumbled close to the truth. Current
>> suggestion (news a couple days ago) is that the E coli O157:H7 may
>> have been transmitted by wild pigs that got into the field -- after
>> breaking down fences. (I don't know details -- just news story.)

>
>
> Apparently there was a herd of cows nearby, seperated from the spinach
> field by fences. They found part of the fence had been broken and
> evidence that feral pigs had used those holes to move between the fields.
> They also recently found that very strain of E.Coli in the intenstines of
> one of the pigs that was found dead nearby.
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> The important part of the story is that they have identified cows and
>> pigs near the suspect farm that carry the particular strain. And
>> apparently, broken fences!
>>
>> bob
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>> bob,
>> That could explain how the spinach became contaminated with E coli.
>> However, there were workers in that field that were illegal
>> immigrants. As you may know, most farm workers in Mexico do NOT have
>> porti potties in those fields or near those fields. The workers walk
>> away from the main group of workers and urinate and place their fecal
>> material next to the vegetables and cover it up. They walk back to the
>> main group of workers (without washing their hands) and continue to
>> work. Those workers continue that habit when they come to America. The
>> porti potties are located near the fields in America but many workers
>> do not use the stinking porti potties. It's the guess of many people
>> that some of the fecal material that was in the spinach fields was
>> mixed with the spinach. At the very least, every worker that worked in
>> those spinach fields that were contaminated with E coli should have
>> been tested for E coli. Every worker that worked in the facilties that
>> processed that spinach should have been tested for E coli. The reason
>> this was NOT done is probably because the government employees that
>> are conducting the investigation do NOT want to be called raciest as a
>> result of forcing Mexicans to be tested. When a government worker is
>> labelled a raciest--it's a career ender. Those government workers
>> could be fired or NEVER promoted. I know this is true since I worked
>> for the state government for over 28 years before I retired.
>> Jason
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>

>
>
>
> --
> ThePsyko
> Public Enemy #7
>
>
>



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In article > , ThePsyko
> wrote:

On 31 Oct 2006 I stormed the castle called alt.food.vegan and heard
Jason Johnson cry out in
...

> In article >, Bob
> > wrote:
>
> On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 18:12:19 -0700, (Jason Johnson)
> wrote:
>
> > I have yet to see a field of vegetables that had cows
> >wandering in it. The cows would eat the vegetables.

>
> You may have inadvertently stumbled close to the truth. Current
> suggestion (news a couple days ago) is that the E coli O157:H7 may
> have been transmitted by wild pigs that got into the field -- after
> breaking down fences. (I don't know details -- just news story.)



Apparently there was a herd of cows nearby, seperated from the spinach
field by fences. They found part of the fence had been broken and
evidence that feral pigs had used those holes to move between the fields.
They also recently found that very strain of E.Coli in the intenstines of
one of the pigs that was found dead nearby.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I was a raised on a farm and we had several pigs. We released the pigs
from the pen every morning and locked them back in the pens at the end of
the day. Those pigs would eat anything. They would even eat their own
fecal material if it became mixed with the food that we fed to them. We
had to kill one of the pigs since it ate some flashlight batteries that
someone accidently placed in the can of food (we called it "slop") that we
fed to them. We never thru away any food--we gave it to the pigs.
Perhaps some of those feral pigs ate some of the fecal material while they
were also eating the spinach. That might be the reason they found E. Coli
in the intestines of one of the pigs that was found dead nearby.
Do you believe the farm workers should have been tested for E. Coli?
Jason

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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On 31 Oct 2006 I stormed the castle called alt.food.vegan and heard
Jason Johnson cry out in
...

> In article > , ThePsyko
> > wrote:
>
> On 31 Oct 2006 I stormed the castle called alt.food.vegan and heard
> Jason Johnson cry out in
> ...
>
> > In article >, Bob
> > > wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 18:12:19 -0700, (Jason
> > Johnson) wrote:
> >
> > > I have yet to see a field of vegetables that had cows
> > >wandering in it. The cows would eat the vegetables.

> >
> > You may have inadvertently stumbled close to the truth. Current
> > suggestion (news a couple days ago) is that the E coli O157:H7 may
> > have been transmitted by wild pigs that got into the field -- after
> > breaking down fences. (I don't know details -- just news story.)

>
>
> Apparently there was a herd of cows nearby, seperated from the
> spinach field by fences. They found part of the fence had been
> broken and evidence that feral pigs had used those holes to move
> between the fields. They also recently found that very strain of
> E.Coli in the intenstines of one of the pigs that was found dead
> nearby.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> I was a raised on a farm and we had several pigs. We released the pigs
> from the pen every morning and locked them back in the pens at the end
> of the day. Those pigs would eat anything. They would even eat their
> own fecal material if it became mixed with the food that we fed to
> them. We had to kill one of the pigs since it ate some flashlight
> batteries that someone accidently placed in the can of food (we called
> it "slop") that we fed to them. We never thru away any food--we gave
> it to the pigs. Perhaps some of those feral pigs ate some of the fecal
> material while they were also eating the spinach. That might be the
> reason they found E. Coli in the intestines of one of the pigs that
> was found dead nearby. Do you believe the farm workers should have
> been tested for E. Coli? Jason
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


I am more inclined to believe the pigs ate the bovine fecal matter which
contained teh E. Coli and then passed it along onto the spinach

--
ThePsyko
Public Enemy #7



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"ThePsyko" > wrote in message
t...
> On 31 Oct 2006 I stormed the castle called alt.food.vegan and heard
> Jason Johnson cry out in
> ...
>
>> In article > , ThePsyko
>> > wrote:
>>
>> On 31 Oct 2006 I stormed the castle called alt.food.vegan and heard
>> Jason Johnson cry out in
>> ...
>>
>> > In article >, Bob
>> > > wrote:
>> >
>> > On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 18:12:19 -0700, (Jason
>> > Johnson) wrote:
>> >
>> > > I have yet to see a field of vegetables that had cows
>> > >wandering in it. The cows would eat the vegetables.
>> >
>> > You may have inadvertently stumbled close to the truth. Current
>> > suggestion (news a couple days ago) is that the E coli O157:H7 may
>> > have been transmitted by wild pigs that got into the field -- after
>> > breaking down fences. (I don't know details -- just news story.)

>>
>>
>> Apparently there was a herd of cows nearby, seperated from the
>> spinach field by fences. They found part of the fence had been
>> broken and evidence that feral pigs had used those holes to move
>> between the fields. They also recently found that very strain of
>> E.Coli in the intenstines of one of the pigs that was found dead
>> nearby.
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>> I was a raised on a farm and we had several pigs. We released the pigs
>> from the pen every morning and locked them back in the pens at the end
>> of the day. Those pigs would eat anything. They would even eat their
>> own fecal material if it became mixed with the food that we fed to
>> them. We had to kill one of the pigs since it ate some flashlight
>> batteries that someone accidently placed in the can of food (we called
>> it "slop") that we fed to them. We never thru away any food--we gave
>> it to the pigs. Perhaps some of those feral pigs ate some of the fecal
>> material while they were also eating the spinach. That might be the
>> reason they found E. Coli in the intestines of one of the pigs that
>> was found dead nearby. Do you believe the farm workers should have
>> been tested for E. Coli? Jason
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>
> I am more inclined to believe the pigs ate the bovine fecal matter which
> contained teh E. Coli and then passed it along onto the spinach
>
> --
> ThePsyko
> Public Enemy #7
>
>
>





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Default Salad? -- E-Coli, Tb, Leprosy Dressing?

On 31 Oct 2006 I stormed the castle called alt.food.vegan and heard Karen
Newton cry out in ...

> Please don't cross-post to the frugal living group.
>


Am curious why I seem to be the only poster that you say that to?

I'm certainly not the only poster x-posting since I'm merely replying to
what's already there...

--
ThePsyko
Public Enemy #7



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