Hello,

I'm new to this forum, and have a few questions about teas as I just
discovered how much I like green tea (Black tea upsets my stomach, and was
all I had ever tried before recently). I don't know what the proper
etiquette for introducing myself is, but I'm greedy so I'll just start
with my question
I recently went to an asian market where I live and was trying to find
types of gunpowder tea as I purchased some "Pinhead Gunpowder" online and
wanted to get a sample of what I'd be receiving. Unfortunately I have
more questions now than before. The store had what appeared to be three
types of green tea from the same brand, and was priced at 7 dollars for
a half pound. They also had some stuff that was around 4.80 a pound
called "Extra Gunpowder Green Tea"
The three more expensive types were all beautifully decorated in a tall
squarish-octogon box. I believe they are all gunpowder tea, but it does
not say on the box. The person working at the store explained to me
that one was original and the others were tea for females and tea for
males. I'm not sure exactly what that means. What would the difference be
exactly? Just taste? She was unable to elaborate.
I purchased the tea for females thinking my wife might enjoy it. The
leaves unroll in the cup into whole evenly colored green leaves and has a
delicate flowery taste. They smell very earthy before brewing. Also,
I purchased the FooJoy Extra Gunpowder Green Tea. It smells very fruity
and It's leaves are not whole when they unwrap and they have uneven
color. They also don't completely unwrap, it kind of reminds me of Oolong
I've seen people at work drink. Also quite a bit of sediment is left in
the cup and it brews a darker cup of tea with a pretty strong taste.
Can somebody explain the differences between these teas, or possibly
give me a link to a green tea compendium. (and hopefully tell me what it
was I purchased)
Thanks in advance!
--
Email works.

sounds like Chinese superstition to me.

Keep in mind that gunpowder teas can be the strongest of the greens and are
very sensitive to steep time and amount of tea in the pot. Too much of
either and you will have a very astringent, harsh tasting brew. For this
reason many people do not like it. I like it but have had to pour out
plenty of pots because I got the steep time/amount wrong. Gunpowder is the
hardest tea to get "right" in steeping. Do not judge all greens by
gunpowder because it's very different from most.

Barky Bark wrote:
> sounds like Chinese superstition to me.
>
> Keep in mind that gunpowder teas can be the strongest of the greens and are
> very sensitive to steep time and amount of tea in the pot. Too much of
> either and you will have a very astringent, harsh tasting brew. For this
> reason many people do not like it. I like it but have had to pour out
> plenty of pots because I got the steep time/amount wrong. Gunpowder is the
> hardest tea to get "right" in steeping. Do not judge all greens by
> gunpowder because it's very different from most.

I do pretty good with the pinhead gunpowder I get* by steeping in
170-180 degree water for about 60-90 seconds, and then pouring it down
the drain (or giving it to a houseplant or something). Then I steep it
again the same way. The first steeping hydrates the leaves and lets
them open up to get a better infusion, so the second through fourth
cups are very nice.
I didn't like gunpowder very much until somebody told me that the
second infusion is the best -- I'd only been having the first.

* at Wild Oats or Teavana; both look and taste the same.

stePH
in cup: nothing -- too late for tea. (can't be up ****ing half the
night, yanno)

> I didn't like gunpowder very much until somebody told me that the
> second infusion is the best -- I'd only been having the first.
>
That is very interesting. Are there other teas in which one should throw
out the 1st infusion?

Pete

"Barky Bark" > wrote in message
et...
> sounds like Chinese superstition to me.
>
> I like it but have had to pour out
> plenty of pots because I got the steep time/amount wrong.

Hi. A sweetner doesn't remove astringency, but I find that it masks it
somewhat. I take it that you don't add a bit of sweetener to your brews. Is
that why astringency is unpalatable to you?

correct I don't add any sweetener to my tea. If you do YMMV.

That's true you can discard the first but I do like the caffeine.

many people "wash" pu for 30 seconds or so before drinking. Especially the
brick pu.

"Barky Bark" > wrote:
>sounds like Chinese superstition to me.
>
>Keep in mind that gunpowder teas can be the strongest of the greens and are
>very sensitive to steep time and amount of tea in the pot. Too much of
>either and you will have a very astringent, harsh tasting brew. For this
>reason many people do not like it. I like it but have had to pour out
>plenty of pots because I got the steep time/amount wrong. Gunpowder is the
>hardest tea to get "right" in steeping. Do not judge all greens by
>gunpowder because it's very different from most.
>
>

Ahh. Well I think she was also implying that the three more expensive
teas came from different regions of china, but were all just green tea.
Then again, she also told me Oolong was good for old people though...
Soo...
But mainly my question was why is there so much difference between what
I bought, and what exactly is "Extra Gunpowder" tea versus just
Gunpowder? Also, If it's rolled into little beads does that mean it's gunpowder
even if it doesn't say on it? I had a real hard time finding any
information.
Thanks
--
Email works.

S. Chancellor wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm new to this forum, and have a few questions about teas as I just
> discovered how much I like green tea...

Gunpowder is always the first green tea most people jump into but
probably not the best introduction. (which I find funny because I would
think the name alone would cause people to stay away Gunpowder as
has been said can be a bit complex and demanding to perfect, and the
taste is not really indicitive of all greens. It is not one of my
favorites even when expertly brewed.

I prefer Sencha, it has a grassy look and produces a light green cup
with a slightly grassy or even sometimes "fishy" smell/taste. I know,
that really sold you on it, right? But it is actually very good. A few
years back I found a Strawberry Sencha which is all natural and has
small chunks of dried strawberry which is amazing. I thought it would
be interesting but not much more, and boy was I wrong, it is now a
major favorite. My other daily favorite is Jasmine Green Tea Pearls,
small "balls" that unfurl as whole leaves and to me are one of the
greatest teas of all time. White Monkey is also very good (and actually
a green tea).

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> S. Chancellor wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm new to this forum, and have a few questions about teas as I just
>> discovered how much I like green tea...
>
> I prefer Sencha, it has a grassy look and produces a light green cup
> with a slightly grassy or even sometimes "fishy" smell/taste. I know,
> that really sold you on it, right?


I just bought some bancha from an Asian market and I noticed the same
"fishy" smell. What is that? It almost reminds me of sushi nori more than
fish. The oolong I bought also has that vibe.

Pete

ostaz wrote:
> I just bought some bancha from an Asian market and I noticed the same
> "fishy" smell. What is that? It almost reminds me of sushi nori more than
> fish. The oolong I bought also has that vibe.

I actually used to refer to some very high quality green tea that was
given to me by a friend as the "fish tea." The strange thing is that
that "fishy" taste actually is just experienced when you are new to it,
it eventually turns into a true taste of the tea and not fishy at all.
What I think the taste and smell actually is is the young and grassy
nature of certain green teas and it is actually the fresh grass smell
that you interperet as fishy.

Now, I crave that taste and smell as it is much different to me now
than years back. Oolong teas also are younger in terms of fermentation
times and can also carry this quality as well. Eventually you begin to
enjoy this characteristic and it does not seem "fishy" any more.

Dominic T. wrote:
> ostaz wrote:
> > I just bought some bancha from an Asian market and I noticed the same
> > "fishy" smell. What is that? It almost reminds me of sushi nori more than
> > fish. The oolong I bought also has that vibe.
>
> I actually used to refer to some very high quality green tea that was
> given to me by a friend as the "fish tea." The strange thing is that
> that "fishy" taste actually is just experienced when you are new to it,
> it eventually turns into a true taste of the tea and not fishy at all.
> What I think the taste and smell actually is is the young and grassy
> nature of certain green teas and it is actually the fresh grass smell
> that you interperet as fishy.

My Se Chung Special Oolong from Wild Oats has a bit of this as well ...
I think it must be the tlavor described by Tao of Tea as "oceanic".
And it also reminds me more of nori than of fish.


stePH
in cup: dragonwell and sencha from Limbo

wrote:
>
>S. Chancellor wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm new to this forum, and have a few questions about teas as I just
>> discovered how much I like green tea...
>
>Gunpowder is always the first green tea most people jump into but
>probably not the best introduction. (which I find funny because I would
>think the name alone would cause people to stay away Gunpowder as
>has been said can be a bit complex and demanding to perfect, and the
>taste is not really indicitive of all greens. It is not one of my
>favorites even when expertly brewed.
>
>I prefer Sencha, it has a grassy look and produces a light green cup
>with a slightly grassy or even sometimes "fishy" smell/taste. I know,
>that really sold you on it, right? But it is actually very good. A few
>years back I found a Strawberry Sencha which is all natural and has
>small chunks of dried strawberry which is amazing. I thought it would
>be interesting but not much more, and boy was I wrong, it is now a
>major favorite. My other daily favorite is Jasmine Green Tea Pearls,
>small "balls" that unfurl as whole leaves and to me are one of the
>greatest teas of all time. White Monkey is also very good (and actually
>a green tea).

I thought pearl tea is gunpowder tea? Is it possible that this other
box isn't gunpowder that I have? They're both rolled into balls but one
is whole leaves and the other isn't.
--
Email works.

ostaz wrote:

>
> I just bought some bancha from an Asian market and I noticed
> the same "fishy" smell. What is that? It almost reminds me of
> sushi nori more than fish. The oolong I bought also has that
> vibe.

That's the amino acids, glutamic ones, to be exact. Japanese tea
has this in spades. It's source of that elusive "umami" flavor,
you know. Although it is present in nori, these amino acids are
in greater abundance in konbu seaweed, which is why it is used as
a base ingredient in Japan's basic cooking stock, dashi.

--crymad

ostaz > wrote:
>> I didn't like gunpowder very much until somebody told me that the
>> second infusion is the best -- I'd only been having the first.
>
>That is very interesting. Are there other teas in which one should throw
>out the 1st infusion?

Any tea when you want to reduce the amount of caffeine you're drinking.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

S. > writes:

> [...]
> I thought pearl tea is gunpowder tea? Is it possible that this other
> box isn't gunpowder that I have? They're both rolled into balls but one
> is whole leaves and the other isn't.

"Pearl tea" is the literal translation for what gunpowder is called in
Chinese.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Lewis Perin wrote:
> S. > writes:
>
> > [...]
> > I thought pearl tea is gunpowder tea? Is it possible that this other
> > box isn't gunpowder that I have? They're both rolled into balls but one
> > is whole leaves and the other isn't.
>
> "Pearl tea" is the literal translation for what gunpowder is called in
> Chinese.

Yes, but there are "pearls" which are large 1/4-1/2" balls rolled by
hand that are not gunpowder.

"That's the amino acids, glutamic ones, to be exact. Japanese tea
has this in spades."

I find it is particularly present in Gyokuro. At first I didn't care
for it, but now I crave it!

"stePH" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> The first steeping hydrates the leaves and lets
> them open up to get a better infusion, so the second through fourth
> cups are very nice.
> I didn't like gunpowder very much until somebody told me that the
> second infusion is the best -- I'd only been having the first.

Hi Steve. Been a while since I had a gunpowder green; finished a carton of
Numi gunpowder over the period of about 2-3 weeks early last year. Never
tried pinhead gunpowder, but since its leaves are small and young I would
assume that it's flavor should be relatively low in astringency.

I can understand why someone would discard the first steep of tea if it
contained too much of something that later steeps wouldn't contain. It
sounds like you do the 2nd steeping of pinhead for improving flavor, instead
of reducing caffeine. So can you describe what's in the first steep of
pinhead that's unpalatable?

"Barky Bark" > wrote in message
. ..
> many people "wash" pu for 30 seconds or so before drinking. Especially
> the
> brick pu.
>

What is it that they don't like about unwashed pu?

unwashed pu can have a slightly metallic taste.

> wrote in message
ps.com...
> "That's the amino acids, glutamic ones, to be exact. Japanese tea
> has this in spades."
>
> I find it is particularly present in Gyokuro. At first I didn't care
> for it, but now I crave it!
Yes, I found it unusual at first. I really crave it now as well. Do all
Japanese oolongs have this characteristic? What other tes in particular
have this?

Pete

sencha and gyokuro taste to me like something I'd scrape from the bottom of
my lawnmower.

Too grassy for me. YMMV

>> many people "wash" pu for 30 seconds or so before drinking. Especially
>> the
>> brick pu.
>>
>
> What is it that they don't like about unwashed pu?

Quoted from another thread:
Well, as I was chipping off a chunk from my Pu Er cake today
for my morning tea, imagine my surprise and delight to find
a little curled white feather sticking out from deep inside
the cake!

I think it's a chicken feather.

Has anyone else found any "surprise bonus gifts" in thier Pu
Er before?

I'm keeping this one. Maybe there's a beak or a foot in
there somewhere! Exciting!

Thanks,
Troy
..

That's a good enough reason for me to wash my pu!

"Knack" > wrote:
>
>"Barky Bark" > wrote in message
...
>> many people "wash" pu for 30 seconds or so before drinking. Especially
>> the
>> brick pu.
>>
>
>What is it that they don't like about unwashed pu?
>
>

Chicken feathers?

--
Email works.

Knack wrote:
> "stePH" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > The first steeping hydrates the leaves and lets
> > them open up to get a better infusion, so the second through fourth
> > cups are very nice.
> > I didn't like gunpowder very much until somebody told me that the
> > second infusion is the best -- I'd only been having the first.
>
> Hi Steve.

Who are you talking to?


> I can understand why someone would discard the first steep of tea if it
> contained too much of something that later steeps wouldn't contain. It
> sounds like you do the 2nd steeping of pinhead for improving flavor, instead
> of reducing caffeine. So can you describe what's in the first steep of
> pinhead that's unpalatable?

Dunno. Not "unpalatable", just tastes heavy and -- not really
pleasant; can't describe it better than that. It's not just that the
leaves aren't opened up yet; I enjoy first infusions of Se Chung oolong
and jasmine pearls which also don't really unfurl until the second
infusion and beyond. But something about the pinhead makes it much
better the second time around.


stePH (not "Steve")
in cup: just finished jasmine pearl from Costco

steve, I'm a big fan of se chung too. Many people here think of it as low-
to mid-grade wulong but to me it's the best I've tasted.

Barky Bark wrote:
> steve, I'm a big fan of se chung too. Many people here think of it as low-
> to mid-grade wulong but to me it's the best I've tasted.

Who is this "Steve" you are talking to?


stePH
in cup: English Breakfast (bulk) from Top Foods

Knack wrote:
> "Barky Bark" > wrote in message
> et...
> > sounds like Chinese superstition to me.
> >
> > I like it but have had to pour out
> > plenty of pots because I got the steep time/amount wrong.
>
> Hi. A sweetner doesn't remove astringency, but I find that it masks it
> somewhat.

Milk takes the edge of astringency far more effectively than
sweeteners. Some may recall I posted about a tin of Wedgwood English
Breakfast that was unbearably astringent even after a short brew; I
managed to finish the tin by having it with a bit of milk.

I don't take sweeteners either, except on rare occasion and only in a
fruit-flavored tea (orange spice, ginger peach, Earl Grey, etc.)


stePH
in cup: English Breakfast (bulk) from TOP Foods

In article >,
Barky Bark > wrote:
>sencha and gyokuro taste to me like something I'd scrape from the bottom of
>my lawnmower.
>
>Too grassy for me. YMMV

They do have that green and grassy flavour. I think it's a nice thing on
a summer day. It's not something I want every day, though.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"ostaz" > writes:

> > wrote in message
> ps.com...
> > "That's the amino acids, glutamic ones, to be exact. Japanese tea
> > has this in spades."
> >
> > I find it is particularly present in Gyokuro. At first I didn't care
> > for it, but now I crave it!
> Yes, I found it unusual at first. I really crave it now as well. Do all
> Japanese oolongs have this characteristic?

Japanese oolongs? Such as?

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Lewis Perin wrote:
>
> Japanese oolongs? Such as?

Umm...Suntory? Duh.

http://www.katagiri.com/ctlg/jpgf/l/l2051.htm

--crymad

"stePH" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Knack wrote:
>> "Barky Bark" > wrote in message
>> et...
>> > sounds like Chinese superstition to me.
>> >
>> > I like it but have had to pour out
>> > plenty of pots because I got the steep time/amount wrong.
>>
>> Hi. A sweetner doesn't remove astringency, but I find that it masks it
>> somewhat.
>
> Milk takes the edge of astringency far more effectively than
> sweeteners. Some may recall I posted about a tin of Wedgwood English
> Breakfast that was unbearably astringent even after a short brew; I
> managed to finish the tin by having it with a bit of milk.

Absolutely. The chemical process is called conjugation. The tannins that
caused the astringency become attached to both fats and proteins in milk and
thus become deactivated. With regards to nutrition there is some debate as
to whether tannins become more or less absorbable in the small intestine
after they have become conjugated with milk. I'm of the belief that at least
some of the flavonoids become more bioavailable when conjugated.

I've found that adding 1/2 teaspoon of finely granulated soy lecithin (a
type of lipid) to a cup of tea also conjugates tannins and removes
astringency. Lecithin is low calorie and slow burning, and also produces
some healthy effects for the cardiovascular system (serum cholesterol
reduction). It also works with choline (a B vitamin) in the body for the
production of acetylcholine, which is necessary for proper function of the
nervous system. It is also an antioxidant.

"stePH" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Barky Bark wrote:
>> steve, I'm a big fan of se chung too. Many people here think of it as
>> low-
>> to mid-grade wulong but to me it's the best I've tasted.
>
> Who is this "Steve" you are talking to?
>

Look what I started (chuckle). Inexplicable. Sorry about that stePH.

"stePH" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Knack wrote:
>> "stePH" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> >
>> > The first steeping hydrates the leaves and lets
>> > them open up to get a better infusion, so the second through fourth
>> > cups are very nice.
>> > I didn't like gunpowder very much until somebody told me that the
>> > second infusion is the best -- I'd only been having the first.
>>
>> Hi Steve.
>
> Who are you talking to?
>
>
>> I can understand why someone would discard the first steep of tea if it
>> contained too much of something that later steeps wouldn't contain. It
>> sounds like you do the 2nd steeping of pinhead for improving flavor,
>> instead
>> of reducing caffeine. So can you describe what's in the first steep of
>> pinhead that's unpalatable?
>
> Dunno. Not "unpalatable", just tastes heavy and -- not really
> pleasant; can't describe it better than that. It's not just that the
> leaves aren't opened up yet; I enjoy first infusions of Se Chung oolong
> and jasmine pearls which also don't really unfurl until the second
> infusion and beyond. But something about the pinhead makes it much
> better the second time around.

Convenience and personal efficiency is an important consideration for my
brews. Seems to me that with so many brands/varieties of green tea available
and with such infinite combinations of steeping time and temperature to
adjust, that you should be able to achieve a flavor very close to the 2nd
steeping of pinhead with a just a single steeping of some other
brand/variety.

Knack wrote:
> "stePH" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > ... But something about the pinhead makes it much
> > better the second time around.
>
> Convenience and personal efficiency is an important consideration for my
> brews. Seems to me that with so many brands/varieties of green tea available
> and with such infinite combinations of steeping time and temperature to
> adjust, that you should be able to achieve a flavor very close to the 2nd
> steeping of pinhead with a just a single steeping of some other
> brand/variety.

Maybe so, but the third and fourth steepings of pinhead are nice as
well. Sometimes even a fifth.


stePH
in cup: Frontier English Breakfast (bulk purchased at Fred Meyer)

Knack wrote:
> I've found that adding 1/2 teaspoon of finely granulated soy lecithin (a
> type of lipid) to a cup of tea also conjugates tannins and removes
> astringency. Lecithin is low calorie and slow burning, and also produces
> some healthy effects for the cardiovascular system (serum cholesterol
> reduction). It also works with choline (a B vitamin) in the body for the
> production of acetylcholine, which is necessary for proper function of the
> nervous system. It is also an antioxidant.

How does it affect flavor? What does it taste like?


stePH
in cup: Frontier English Breakfast (bulk purchased at Fred Meyer)

"Lewis Perin" > wrote in message
news
> "ostaz" > writes:
>
>> > wrote in message
>> ps.com...
>> > "That's the amino acids, glutamic ones, to be exact. Japanese tea
>> > has this in spades."
>> >
>> > I find it is particularly present in Gyokuro. At first I didn't care
>> > for it, but now I crave it!
>> Yes, I found it unusual at first. I really crave it now as well. Do all
>> Japanese oolongs have this characteristic?
>
> Japanese oolongs? Such as?
Sorry, I meant Chinese......it's Tung Ting Oolong ...or something like that!
I bought it at the same time as some really nice Japanese bancha green tea.

Pete

crymad > writes:

> Lewis Perin wrote:
> > Japanese oolongs? Such as?
>
> Umm...Suntory? Duh.
>
> http://www.katagiri.com/ctlg/jpgf/l/l2051.htm

Seriously, if you've tried those pre-brewed oolongs, are they any
good? Any idea where the leaves are from?

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html