Hi,

This is a map of the six famous tea mountains in Yunnan province.
Could someone translate the names? I know the last three characters of
each are ancient tea mountain. The characters are barely legible but
might be recognized by someone familiar with the area. I was expecting
YiWu to be among them but I don't see the characters.

Thanks,
Jim


http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...ixftmchart.jpg

Space Cowboy wrote:
> Hi,
>
> This is a map of the six famous tea mountains in Yunnan province.
> Could someone translate the names? I know the last three characters of
> each are ancient tea mountain. The characters are barely legible but
> might be recognized by someone familiar with the area. I was expecting
> YiWu to be among them but I don't see the characters.
>
> Thanks,
> Jim
>
>
> http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...ixftmchart.jpg
>

It sounds like you are in need of some kind of translation tablet. Hmm,
what would one call something like that..... I wonder.

1, 攸�茶山 You Le Cha Shan
2, 芥��茶山 Jie Zhi Gu Cha Shan
3, è›®ç*–å�¤èŒ¶å±± Man Zhuan Gu Cha Shan
4, 易æ*¦å�¤èŒ¶å±± Yi Wu Gu Cha Shan
5, �登�茶山 Ge Deng Gu Cha Shan
6, 倚帮�茶山 Yi Bang Gu Cha Shan

check this map:
http://www.9654.com/m/yunnan.htm

and check this link, if u have access to GB2312(simplifed Chinese)

and this link, if u have access to GB2312 Simplified Chinese
http://www.a1a.cn/main/barcontent.php?bid=46839

Close but not yet correct Cathy.

No. 2 is Man Zhi, not Jie Zhi. (??). There is an printing error on the
diagram Jim. Check the rest of the book.

No. 4 is Man Sa (??), not Yi Wu (??). In the old mountain series, Yi Wu was
part of Man Sa mountain region, and only in the present is it the main tea
proudcing area.

No. 6 is Yi Bang (??), phonetically correct, but the spelling for Bang is
incorrect.

:")

These six mountains are what is known as the Northside Six Famous Tea
Mountains.

Danny


"NeoCathay" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> 1, ???? You Le Cha Shan
> 2, ????? Jie Zhi Gu Cha Shan
> 3, ????? Man Zhuan Gu Cha Shan
> 4, ????? Yi Wu Gu Cha Shan
> 5, ????? Ge Deng Gu Cha Shan
> 6, ????? Yi Bang Gu Cha Shan
>
> check this map:
> http://www.9654.com/m/yunnan.htm
>

Interesting NeoCathay,

However, if you look at the locations properly, you will find some
discrepancies on the locations of the mountains between what Jim provided
and this other guy provided.

So who's correct?

Danny

"NeoCathay" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> and this link, if u have access to GB2312 Simplified Chinese
> http://www.a1a.cn/main/barcontent.php?bid=46839
>

Oh great, I run the GB2312 url through Google or Babelfish and get the
meaningless translation of the 1st mountain as "The leather ascends the
Cha shan". In the past a GB2312 font set would have been a Stop Sign
since what I really want are the Unicode chinese character values for
the name of the mountain which in this case is four GB2312 Chinese
characters representing leather/ascends/cha/shan. With a little
guessing I cut and paste the corresponding mountain name GB2312 string
¸ï/µÇ/²è/ɽ where I use / to demarcate the two GB2312 bytes
representing each chinese character for illustrative purposes. You
take a hex viewer and determine the string in hex codes is
B8EF/B5C7/B2E8/C9BD. Then you take each hex string and do a GB2312 to
UNICODE lookup using the mapping table at:

http://www.herongyang.com/gb2312/ug_map.html

I'll leave it as an exercise to determine the 3 remaining Unicode
characters beside the tea character (cha) GB2312 B2E8 which is UNICODE
8336 (Hint: Table 22) where you use the Unicode value to see the
character graphically or Web browser font glyph (copy/paste) if you
have the appropriate Unicode character set loaded:

http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...codepoint=8336

Jim

PS: If you have Java or DotNet loaded then it is simple to convert
from any native language set to Unicode using the international
language support routines. In this case the Table mapping was
generated by a Java program. Web browsers Javascript only support
Unicode. I do this for the one person (Lew) who has shown any interest
in the past on the subject.

NeoCathay wrote:
> and this link, if u have access to GB2312 Simplified Chinese
> http://www.a1a.cn/main/barcontent.php?bid=46839

Thanks, Danny. Thank, NeoCathay. I've long suspected nobody could
agree on the names or location for the 6FTM. My map came from TaoBao.
I also understood YiWu to mean a mountain,city,county,area. I liked
the detailed Yunnan map from NeoCathy. I wasn't expecting highways but
horse trails.

Jim

PS: I haven't noticed before but welcome to the group, NeoCathay.

samarkand wrote:
> Interesting NeoCathay,
>
> However, if you look at the locations properly, you will find some
> discrepancies on the locations of the mountains between what Jim provided
> and this other guy provided.
>
> So who's correct?
>
> Danny
>
> "NeoCathay" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > and this link, if u have access to GB2312 Simplified Chinese
> > http://www.a1a.cn/main/barcontent.php?bid=46839

No 4, if you could magnify Jim's picture, you will find why I said
that;

No 6, that's my mistake, thanks for pointing out.

No 4, if you could magnify Jim's picture, you will find why I said
that;

No 6, that's my mistake, thanks for pointing out.

I noticed that printing error too. It would be less confusing if one points
out and amend the error though, don't you think?

The map that Jim provided was from a book written by the boss of 6 Famous
Tea Mountain Tea Company, Ms Ruan.

In the spate of rush publications to meet the tea market demands, proof
reading is sorely lacking.

Danny


"NeoCathay" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> No 4, if you could magnify Jim's picture, you will find why I said
> that;
>
> No 6, that's my mistake, thanks for pointing out.
>

So the names of the 6FTM are correct with the noted proof reading
corrections?

Thanks,
Jim

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...ixftmchart.jpg

samarkand wrote:
> I noticed that printing error too. It would be less confusing if one points
> out and amend the error though, don't you think?
>
> The map that Jim provided was from a book written by the boss of 6 Famous
> Tea Mountain Tea Company, Ms Ruan.
>
> In the spate of rush publications to meet the tea market demands, proof
> reading is sorely lacking.
>
> Danny
>
>
> "NeoCathay" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > No 4, if you could magnify Jim's picture, you will find why I said
> > that;
> >
> > No 6, that's my mistake, thanks for pointing out.

Most of what NeoCathay translated for you are correct, the ones that are
incorrect I have inserted to his thread.

:")

Danny

"Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> So the names of the 6FTM are correct with the noted proof reading
> corrections?
>
> Thanks,
> Jim
>
> http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...ixftmchart.jpg
>
> samarkand wrote:
>> I noticed that printing error too. It would be less confusing if one
>> points
>> out and amend the error though, don't you think?
>>
>> The map that Jim provided was from a book written by the boss of 6 Famous
>> Tea Mountain Tea Company, Ms Ruan.
>>
>> In the spate of rush publications to meet the tea market demands, proof
>> reading is sorely lacking.
>>
>> Danny
>>
>>
>> "NeoCathay" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> >
>> > No 4, if you could magnify Jim's picture, you will find why I said
>> > that;
>> >
>> > No 6, that's my mistake, thanks for pointing out.
>

Looking back it's a minor point but your Chinese character corrections
got lost in non Chinese charset. If you can give me the Pinyin Vowel
Numbers and brief English I can pick it up from there. I can also
handle anything in GB2312 or UNICODE.

Thanks,
Jim

No. 2 is Man Zhi, not Jie Zhi. (??).
No. 4 is Man Sa (??), not Yi Wu (??).
No. 6 is Yi Bang (??), phonetically correct, but the spelling for Bang
is incorrect

samarkand wrote:
> Most of what NeoCathay translated for you are correct, the ones that are
> incorrect I have inserted to his thread.
>
> :")
>
> Danny
>
> "Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > So the names of the 6FTM are correct with the noted proof reading
> > corrections?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jim
> >
> > http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...ixftmchart.jpg
> >
> > samarkand wrote:
> >> I noticed that printing error too. It would be less confusing if one
> >> points
> >> out and amend the error though, don't you think?
> >>
> >> The map that Jim provided was from a book written by the boss of 6 Famous
> >> Tea Mountain Tea Company, Ms Ruan.
> >>
> >> In the spate of rush publications to meet the tea market demands, proof
> >> reading is sorely lacking.
> >>
> >> Danny
> >>
> >>
> >> "NeoCathay" > wrote in message
> >> oups.com...
> >> >
> >> > No 4, if you could magnify Jim's picture, you will find why I said
> >> > that;
> >> >
> >> > No 6, that's my mistake, thanks for pointing out.

Let me try and see if I can work this tricky thing out:

No. 2 is Mang Zhi, not Jie Zhi. (??, not ??).
No. 4 is Man Sa (??), not Yi Wu (??).
No. 6 is Yi Bang (??), phonetically correct, but the spelling for Bang (?)
is incorrect.

"Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Looking back it's a minor point but your Chinese character corrections
> got lost in non Chinese charset. If you can give me the Pinyin Vowel
> Numbers and brief English I can pick it up from there. I can also
> handle anything in GB2312 or UNICODE.
>
> Thanks,
> Jim
>
> No. 2 is Man Zhi, not Jie Zhi. (??).
> No. 4 is Man Sa (??), not Yi Wu (??).
> No. 6 is Yi Bang (??), phonetically correct, but the spelling for Bang
> is incorrect
>
> samarkand wrote:
>> Most of what NeoCathay translated for you are correct, the ones that are
>> incorrect I have inserted to his thread.
>>
>> :")
>>
>> Danny
>>
>> "Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> > So the names of the 6FTM are correct with the noted proof reading
>> > corrections?
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Jim
>> >
>> > http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...ixftmchart.jpg
>> >
>> > samarkand wrote:
>> >> I noticed that printing error too. It would be less confusing if one
>> >> points
>> >> out and amend the error though, don't you think?
>> >>
>> >> The map that Jim provided was from a book written by the boss of 6
>> >> Famous
>> >> Tea Mountain Tea Company, Ms Ruan.
>> >>
>> >> In the spate of rush publications to meet the tea market demands,
>> >> proof
>> >> reading is sorely lacking.
>> >>
>> >> Danny
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "NeoCathay" > wrote in message
>> >> oups.com...
>> >> >
>> >> > No 4, if you could magnify Jim's picture, you will find why I said
>> >> > that;
>> >> >
>> >> > No 6, that's my mistake, thanks for pointing out.
>

No. 2 is Mang Zhi, not Jie Zhi. (??, not ??).
No. 4 is Man Sa (??), not Yi Wu (??).
No. 6 is Yi Bang (??), phonetically correct, but the spelling for Bang (?)
is incorrect.

"samarkand" > wrote in message
...
> Let me try and see if I can work this tricky thing out:
>
> No. 2 is Mang Zhi, not Jie Zhi. (??, not ??).
> No. 4 is Man Sa (??), not Yi Wu (??).
> No. 6 is Yi Bang (??), phonetically correct, but the spelling for Bang (?)
> is incorrect.
>
> "Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> Looking back it's a minor point but your Chinese character corrections
>> got lost in non Chinese charset. If you can give me the Pinyin Vowel
>> Numbers and brief English I can pick it up from there. I can also
>> handle anything in GB2312 or UNICODE.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jim
>>
>> No. 2 is Man Zhi, not Jie Zhi. (??).
>> No. 4 is Man Sa (??), not Yi Wu (??).
>> No. 6 is Yi Bang (??), phonetically correct, but the spelling for Bang
>> is incorrect
>>
>> samarkand wrote:
>>> Most of what NeoCathay translated for you are correct, the ones that are
>>> incorrect I have inserted to his thread.
>>>
>>> :")
>>>
>>> Danny
>>>
>>> "Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
>>> oups.com...
>>> > So the names of the 6FTM are correct with the noted proof reading
>>> > corrections?
>>> >
>>> > Thanks,
>>> > Jim
>>> >
>>> > http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...ixftmchart.jpg
>>> >
>>> > samarkand wrote:
>>> >> I noticed that printing error too. It would be less confusing if one
>>> >> points
>>> >> out and amend the error though, don't you think?
>>> >>
>>> >> The map that Jim provided was from a book written by the boss of 6
>>> >> Famous
>>> >> Tea Mountain Tea Company, Ms Ruan.
>>> >>
>>> >> In the spate of rush publications to meet the tea market demands,
>>> >> proof
>>> >> reading is sorely lacking.
>>> >>
>>> >> Danny
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> "NeoCathay" > wrote in message
>>> >> oups.com...
>>> >> >
>>> >> > No 4, if you could magnify Jim's picture, you will find why I said
>>> >> > that;
>>> >> >
>>> >> > No 6, that's my mistake, thanks for pointing out.
>>
>
>

Sorry, it ain't working...

Danny

"samarkand" > wrote in message
...
> No. 2 is Mang Zhi, not Jie Zhi. (??, not ??).
> No. 4 is Man Sa (??), not Yi Wu (??).
> No. 6 is Yi Bang (??), phonetically correct, but the spelling for Bang (?)
> is incorrect.
>
> "samarkand" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Let me try and see if I can work this tricky thing out:
>>
>> No. 2 is Mang Zhi, not Jie Zhi. (??, not ??).
>> No. 4 is Man Sa (??), not Yi Wu (??).
>> No. 6 is Yi Bang (??), phonetically correct, but the spelling for Bang
>> (?)
>> is incorrect.
>>
>> "Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>>> Looking back it's a minor point but your Chinese character corrections
>>> got lost in non Chinese charset. If you can give me the Pinyin Vowel
>>> Numbers and brief English I can pick it up from there. I can also
>>> handle anything in GB2312 or UNICODE.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Jim
>>>
>>> No. 2 is Man Zhi, not Jie Zhi. (??).
>>> No. 4 is Man Sa (??), not Yi Wu (??).
>>> No. 6 is Yi Bang (??), phonetically correct, but the spelling for Bang
>>> is incorrect
>>>
>>> samarkand wrote:
>>>> Most of what NeoCathay translated for you are correct, the ones that
>>>> are
>>>> incorrect I have inserted to his thread.
>>>>
>>>> :")
>>>>
>>>> Danny
>>>>
>>>> "Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
>>>> oups.com...
>>>> > So the names of the 6FTM are correct with the noted proof reading
>>>> > corrections?
>>>> >
>>>> > Thanks,
>>>> > Jim
>>>> >
>>>> > http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...ixftmchart.jpg
>>>> >
>>>> > samarkand wrote:
>>>> >> I noticed that printing error too. It would be less confusing if one
>>>> >> points
>>>> >> out and amend the error though, don't you think?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The map that Jim provided was from a book written by the boss of 6
>>>> >> Famous
>>>> >> Tea Mountain Tea Company, Ms Ruan.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> In the spate of rush publications to meet the tea market demands,
>>>> >> proof
>>>> >> reading is sorely lacking.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Danny
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> "NeoCathay" > wrote in message
>>>> >> oups.com...
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > No 4, if you could magnify Jim's picture, you will find why I said
>>>> >> > that;
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > No 6, that's my mistake, thanks for pointing out.
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

1，攸� 茶山 You le Cha Shan
2，莽� 茶山 Mang Zhi Cha Shan
2，蛮ç*– 茶山 Man Zhuan Cha Shan
4，蛮撒 茶山 Man Sa Cha Shan
5，�登 茶山 Ge Deng Cha Shan
6，倚邦 茶山 Yi Bang Cha Shan

Thanks for trying, Danny. Everytime I think I understand the Chinese
character sets I don't. My backdoor from GB2312 to UNICODE seems to
work in more than one case. Now if I can find a BIG5 equivalent. I
think it odd that the Chinese gov't bets that a 4k simplified character
set can handle popular media versus the 25k traditional for academics
and literati.

Jim

samarkand wrote:
> Sorry, it ain't working...
>
> Danny
>
> "samarkand" > wrote in message
> ...
> > No. 2 is Mang Zhi, not Jie Zhi. (??, not ??).
> > No. 4 is Man Sa (??), not Yi Wu (??).
> > No. 6 is Yi Bang (??), phonetically correct, but the spelling for Bang (?)
> > is incorrect.
> >
> > "samarkand" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Let me try and see if I can work this tricky thing out:
> >>
> >> No. 2 is Mang Zhi, not Jie Zhi. (??, not ??).
> >> No. 4 is Man Sa (??), not Yi Wu (??).
> >> No. 6 is Yi Bang (??), phonetically correct, but the spelling for Bang
> >> (?)
> >> is incorrect.
> >>
> >> "Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
> >> oups.com...
> >>> Looking back it's a minor point but your Chinese character corrections
> >>> got lost in non Chinese charset. If you can give me the Pinyin Vowel
> >>> Numbers and brief English I can pick it up from there. I can also
> >>> handle anything in GB2312 or UNICODE.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Jim
> >>>
> >>> No. 2 is Man Zhi, not Jie Zhi. (??).
> >>> No. 4 is Man Sa (??), not Yi Wu (??).
> >>> No. 6 is Yi Bang (??), phonetically correct, but the spelling for Bang
> >>> is incorrect
> >>>
> >>> samarkand wrote:
> >>>> Most of what NeoCathay translated for you are correct, the ones that
> >>>> are
> >>>> incorrect I have inserted to his thread.
> >>>>
> >>>> :")
> >>>>
> >>>> Danny

Hi NeoCathay,

No.4...it's the other Man, not this one, though there are several writing
characters over the years for the 'Man' in Man Sa, but it was never the
'Man' that you wrote...

"NeoCathay" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> 1,?? ?? You le Cha Shan
> 2,?? ?? Mang Zhi Cha Shan
> 2,?? ?? Man Zhuan Cha Shan
> 4,?? ?? Man Sa Cha Shan
> 5,?? ?? Ge Deng Cha Shan
> 6,?? ?? Yi Bang Cha Shan
>

No Jim,

NeoCathay should be credited for the effort...I merely fill in the gaps.

Danny


"Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Thanks for trying, Danny. Everytime I think I understand the Chinese
> character sets I don't. My backdoor from GB2312 to UNICODE seems to
> work in more than one case. Now if I can find a BIG5 equivalent. I
> think it odd that the Chinese gov't bets that a 4k simplified character
> set can handle popular media versus the 25k traditional for academics
> and literati.
>
> Jim
>
> samarkand wrote:
>> Sorry, it ain't working...
>>
>> Danny
>>
>> "samarkand" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > No. 2 is Mang Zhi, not Jie Zhi. (??, not ??).
>> > No. 4 is Man Sa (??), not Yi Wu (??).
>> > No. 6 is Yi Bang (??), phonetically correct, but the spelling for Bang
>> > (?)
>> > is incorrect.
>> >
>> > "samarkand" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> Let me try and see if I can work this tricky thing out:
>> >>
>> >> No. 2 is Mang Zhi, not Jie Zhi. (??, not ??).
>> >> No. 4 is Man Sa (??), not Yi Wu (??).
>> >> No. 6 is Yi Bang (??), phonetically correct, but the spelling for Bang
>> >> (?)
>> >> is incorrect.
>> >>
>> >> "Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
>> >> oups.com...
>> >>> Looking back it's a minor point but your Chinese character
>> >>> corrections
>> >>> got lost in non Chinese charset. If you can give me the Pinyin Vowel
>> >>> Numbers and brief English I can pick it up from there. I can also
>> >>> handle anything in GB2312 or UNICODE.
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks,
>> >>> Jim
>> >>>
>> >>> No. 2 is Man Zhi, not Jie Zhi. (??).
>> >>> No. 4 is Man Sa (??), not Yi Wu (??).
>> >>> No. 6 is Yi Bang (??), phonetically correct, but the spelling for
>> >>> Bang
>> >>> is incorrect
>> >>>
>> >>> samarkand wrote:
>> >>>> Most of what NeoCathay translated for you are correct, the ones that
>> >>>> are
>> >>>> incorrect I have inserted to his thread.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> :")
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Danny
>

You filled in the gaps heretofore. I hope NeoCathay will take pity on
me again and do the same when I ask the Chinese character questions.
Sasha has helped in the past. For Lew, you go to Unicode.Org and
download the 26 meg Unihan.txt file and extract the corresponding two
byte national language sets with Unicodes you want. Just beware the
GB2312 codes are in raw decimal row-column format so you add
160(32+168) to each row and column and convert to hex for the text
values. The BIG5 codes are used as is. Basically you take the two
bytes for a Chinese character from a language set, look it up in a
table you extracted from Unihan.txt, and use the corresponding Unicode
value to look up the character using the Unicode website which will
return glyph and Unicode browser representation which you can copy and
paste for Google searches. I'll let you know if there are any special
BUT-IFS for Japanese and Korean when I get to it.

Jim

samarkand wrote:
> No Jim,
>
> NeoCathay should be credited for the effort...I merely fill in the gaps.
>
> Danny
>
>
> "Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> > Thanks for trying, Danny. Everytime I think I understand the Chinese
> > character sets I don't. My backdoor from GB2312 to UNICODE seems to
> > work in more than one case. Now if I can find a BIG5 equivalent. I
> > think it odd that the Chinese gov't bets that a 4k simplified character
> > set can handle popular media versus the 25k traditional for academics
> > and literati.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > samarkand wrote:
> >> Sorry, it ain't working...
> >>
> >> Danny
> >>
> >> "samarkand" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > No. 2 is Mang Zhi, not Jie Zhi. (??, not ??).
> >> > No. 4 is Man Sa (??), not Yi Wu (??).
> >> > No. 6 is Yi Bang (??), phonetically correct, but the spelling for Bang
> >> > (?)
> >> > is incorrect.
> >> >
> >> > "samarkand" > wrote in message
> >> > ...
> >> >> Let me try and see if I can work this tricky thing out:
> >> >>
> >> >> No. 2 is Mang Zhi, not Jie Zhi. (??, not ??).
> >> >> No. 4 is Man Sa (??), not Yi Wu (??).
> >> >> No. 6 is Yi Bang (??), phonetically correct, but the spelling for Bang
> >> >> (?)
> >> >> is incorrect.
> >> >>
> >> >> "Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
> >> >> oups.com...
> >> >>> Looking back it's a minor point but your Chinese character
> >> >>> corrections
> >> >>> got lost in non Chinese charset. If you can give me the Pinyin Vowel
> >> >>> Numbers and brief English I can pick it up from there. I can also
> >> >>> handle anything in GB2312 or UNICODE.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Thanks,
> >> >>> Jim
> >> >>>
> >> >>> No. 2 is Man Zhi, not Jie Zhi. (??).
> >> >>> No. 4 is Man Sa (??), not Yi Wu (??).
> >> >>> No. 6 is Yi Bang (??), phonetically correct, but the spelling for
> >> >>> Bang
> >> >>> is incorrect
> >> >>>
> >> >>> samarkand wrote:
> >> >>>> Most of what NeoCathay translated for you are correct, the ones that
> >> >>>> are
> >> >>>> incorrect I have inserted to his thread.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> :")
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Danny

Yeah, No. 4 should be 漫撒


samarkand wrote:

> Hi NeoCathay,
>
> No.4...it's the other Man, not this one, though there are several writing
> characters over the years for the 'Man' in Man Sa, but it was never the
> 'Man' that you wrote...
>
> "NeoCathay" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> > 1,?? ?? You le Cha Shan
> > 2,?? ?? Mang Zhi Cha Shan
> > 2,?? ?? Man Zhuan Cha Shan
> > 4,?? ?? Man Sa Cha Shan
> > 5,?? ?? Ge Deng Cha Shan
> > 6,?? ?? Yi Bang Cha Shan
> >

Hope this would be the final version
1，攸�
2，莽�
3，蛮ç*–
4，漫撒
5，�登
6，倚邦

Yes it is...though the more acceptable for no.4 Man is without 'water', but
that is ok too, I guess.

:")

"NeoCathay" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hope this would be the final version
> 1,??
> 2,??
> 3,??
> 4,??
> 5,??
> 6,??
>

Hi NeoCathay,

THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jim

Final proof of 6FTM:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...ixftmchart.jpg

1£¬ØüÀÖ You1 Le4
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...codepoint=6538
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...codepoint=4E50
2£¬Ã§Ö¦ Mang3 Zhi1
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...codepoint=83BD
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...codepoint=679D
3£¬Âùש Man2 Zhuan1
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...codepoint=86EE
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...codepoint=7816
4£¬ÂþÈö Man4 Sa1
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...codepoint=6F2B
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...codepoint=6492
5£¬¸ïµÇ Ge2 Deng1
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...codepoint=9769
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...codepoint=767B
6£¬Òаî Yi3 Bang1
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...codepoint=501A
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...codepoint=90A6

NeoCathay wrote:
> Hope this would be the final version
> 1£¬ØüÀÖ
> 2£¬Ã§Ö¦
> 3£¬Âùש
> 4£¬ÂþÈö
> 5£¬¸ïµÇ
> 6£¬Òаî

You r welcome, Jim. Really appreciate your effort in making these
characters right, especially when you not speaking them; Even though
Chinese language is pretty much self-explained, as the nation of Cathay
contains (nowadays) 56 different ethnic groups, the frequently used
character set are still different accross the territory, as u may
remember, even I, as a 1st language speaker, would make mistakes.

"NeoCathay" > writes:

> You r welcome, Jim. Really appreciate your effort in making these
> characters right, especially when you not speaking them; Even though
> Chinese language is pretty much self-explained, as the nation of Cathay
> contains (nowadays) 56 different ethnic groups, the frequently used
> character set are still different accross the territory, as u may
> remember, even I, as a 1st language speaker, would make mistakes.

Could you - or someone else - explain this, please? I'm aware that
some ethnic groups, e.g. the Dai who are so important to Pu'er, have
their own character sets. I'm also aware that different groups
pronounce the same written characters in radically different ways.
But I hadn't heard that different groups use different overlapping
subsets of Chinese characters. Are we talking about ethnic groups
that speak languages that have little similarity to Chinese and use
Chinese characters for historical reasons?

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

I've always been jealous of people who speak English as a second
language. I think they have to be sharper than average even the ones
who take the order in English and fill it in Spanish. Once I got
routed to a help center in India and I'm asked to enunciate more
distinctly. If I'm younger I learn Chinese or Russian and make my
fortune elsewhere. Arabic is also a money maker. Japanese is good for
ordering seafood and French for surrendering. Heyheyhey Carlos Mencia
is funny and all Don Rickles could do on TV is CPO Sharkey. I always
wanted to sit on the front row and be insulted.

Jim

NeoCathay wrote:
> You r welcome, Jim. Really appreciate your effort in making these
> characters right, especially when you not speaking them; Even though
> Chinese language is pretty much self-explained, as the nation of Cathay
> contains (nowadays) 56 different ethnic groups, the frequently used
> character set are still different accross the territory, as u may
> remember, even I, as a 1st language speaker, would make mistakes.

"Space Cowboy" > writes:

> I've always been jealous of people who speak English as a second
> language. I think they have to be sharper than average even the ones
> who take the order in English and fill it in Spanish. Once I got
> routed to a help center in India and I'm asked to enunciate more
> distinctly. If I'm younger I learn Chinese or Russian and make my
> fortune elsewhere. Arabic is also a money maker. Japanese is good for
> ordering seafood and French for surrendering. Heyheyhey Carlos Mencia
> is funny and all Don Rickles could do on TV is CPO Sharkey. I always
> wanted to sit on the front row and be insulted.

Be careful what you wish for, especially around here!

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Well, as I said to Mike before, unless one could have a oveview of
something, information fragment would easily cause loads of confussion.
The key concept to your confussion, I suppose, might be the
defination/knowledge of the nation of Cathay. It is a huge nation of
hybridism with more than 6k yrs of history. If you take this subject
seriously, you know where to turn to, isn't it. Sorry for this kind of
reply, but your question just too big.

This might be the answer you would expect:
As the country was and is too big and still bearing the memory from a
long history of more than 6000 years, different people in different
places speak the same language differently. A comparable example would
be, in Uk, we call a mobile phones a mobile, while is the states, u
call it a cell phone, or Duke in UK is a kind of title which always
associate with certain priviilege, but a normal family name in the
states.

Some of the ethnic group have their own language and still using it,
and some don't, they might had it and lost it passively/actively, but
most of those groups just joined their language to make the whole set
bigger. More than 6k yrs' love, hatred, marriage, and finghting would
allow many things happen.

Lew,

Well, as I said to Mike before, unless one could have a oveview of
something, information fragment would easily cause loads of confussion.

The key concept to your confussion, I suppose, might be the
defination/knowledge of the nation of Cathay. It is a huge nation of
hybridism with more than 6k yrs of history. If you take this subject
seriously, you know where to turn to, isn't it. Sorry for this kind of
reply, but some aspect of your question just too big.

This might be the answer you would expect:
As the country was and is too big and still bearing the memory from a
long history of more than 6000 years, different people in different
places speak the same language differently. A comparable example would
be, in Uk, we call a mobile phones a mobile, while is the states, u
call it a cell phone, or Duke in UK is a kind of title which always
associate with certain priviilege, but a normal family name in the
states; not mentioning all the funny accents accross the states...

Some of the ethnic group have their own language and still using it,
and some don't, they might had it and lost it passively/actively, but
most of those groups just joined their language to make the whole set
bigger, as the nature of a character based language, it has been
very easy for us to do so. More than 6k yrs' love, hatred, marriage,
and finghting could teach people many things.

>>But I hadn't heard that different groups use different overlapping
>>subsets of Chinese characters.
Well, if you hadn't heard of this before, you just heard, again.

Lew,

Well, as I said to Mike before, unless one could have a oveview of
something, information fragment would easily cause loads of confussion.


The key concept to your confussion, I suppose, might be the
language of the nation of Cathay. It is a huge nation of
hybridism with more than 6k yrs of history. If you take this subject
seriously, you know where to turn to, isn't it. Sorry for this kind of
reply, but some aspect of your question just too big.

This might be the answer you would expect:
As the country was and is too big and still bearing the memory from a
long history of more than 6000 years, different people in different
places speak the same language differently. A comparable example would
be, in Uk, we call a mobile phones a mobile, while is the states, u
call it a cell phone, or Duke in UK is a kind of title which always
associate with certain priviilege, but a normal family name in the
states; not mentioning all the funny accents accross uk and the
states...

Some of the ethnic group have their own language and still using them,
and some don't, they might had it and lost it passively/actively, but
most of those groups just joined their language to make the whole set
bigger, as the nature of a character based language, it is not
difficult at all.
More than 6k yrs' love, hatred, marriage, and finghting could teach
people
many things.

>>But I hadn't heard that different groups use different overlapping
>>subsets of Chinese characters. Are we talking about ethnic groups
>>that speak languages that have little similarity to Chinese and use
>>Chinese characters for historical reasons?
Well, if you hadn't heard of this before, you just heard it, again.
Want to prove this?
Ask some people from the north part of China and ask him/her how to
speak and write
the word "fuse" in Chinese, then find somebody from Guangdong or
Hongkong to do
the same thing for you.

Lew,

Well, as I said to Mike before, unless one could have a oveview of
something, information fragment would easily cause loads of confussion.


The key concept to your confussion, I suppose, might be the
knowledge of the my native country. It is a huge nation of
hybridism with more than 6k yrs of history. If you take this subject
seriously, you know where to turn to, isn't it. Sorry for this kind of
reply, but some aspect of your question just too big.

This might be the answer you would expect:
As the country was and is too big and still bearing the memory from a
long history of more than 6000 years, different people in different
places speak the same language differently. A comparable example would
be, in Uk, we call a mobile phones a mobile, while is the states, u
call it a cell phone, or Duke in UK is a kind of title which always
associate with certain priviilege, but a normal family name in the
states; not mentioning all the funny accents accross uk and the
states...

Some of the ethnic group have their own language and still using them,
and some don't, they might had it and lost it passively/actively, but
most of those groups just joined their language to make the whole set
bigger, as the nature of a character based language, it is not
difficult at all. More than 6k yrs' love, hatred, marriage, and
finghting could teach
people many things.

>>But I hadn't heard that different groups use different overlapping
>>subsets of Chinese characters. Are we talking about ethnic groups
>>that speak languages that have little similarity to Chinese and use
>>Chinese characters for historical reasons?
Well, if you hadn't heard of this before, you just heard it, again.

Lew,

Well, as I said to Mike before, unless one could have a oveview of
something, information fragment would easily cause loads of confussion.


The key concept to your confussion, I suppose, might be the
definition of the "Nation of Cathay". It is a huge nation of
hybridism with more than 6k yrs of history. If you take this subject
seriously, you know where to turn to, isn't it. Sorry for this kind of
reply, but some aspect of your question just too big.

This might be the answer you would expect:
As the country was and is too big and still bearing the memory from a
long history of more than 6000 years, different people in different
places speak the same language differently. A comparable example would
be, in Uk, we call a mobile phones a mobile, while is the states, u
call it a cell phone, or Duke in UK is a kind of title which always
associate with certain priviilege, but a normal family name in the
states; not mentioning all the funny accents accross uk and the
states...

Some of the ethnic group have their own language and still using them,
and some don't, they might had it and lost it passively/actively, but
most of those groups just joined their language to make the whole set
bigger, as the nature of a character based language, it is not
difficult at all. More than 6k yrs' love, hatred, marriage, and
finghting could teach
people many things.

>>But I hadn't heard that different groups use different overlapping
>>subsets of Chinese characters. Are we talking about ethnic groups
>>that speak languages that have little similarity to Chinese and use
>>Chinese characters for historical reasons?

Well, if you hadn't heard of this before, you just heard it, again.

Space 12/1/05


> I've always been jealous of people who speak English as a second
> language. I think they have to be sharper than average even the ones
> who take the order in English and fill it in Spanish.

snip

Jim, I'm standing up and applauding your sentiment above. I agree completely
and profoundly. It's no easy matter to learn English, and people struggle
hugely to make even a little progress. As I said to my Spanish teacher last
summer, I had to struggle hard to learn to speak bad Spanish well, and now
I'm struggling to speak good Spanish badly. (This might sound criptic, but
actually it refers to some of the complexities of Spanish grammar and the
order in which they are learned.)

BTW, I am not even attempting to follow the intricacies of the Chinese
character discussion, but I am very interested in the corrected map of the
Pu'erh area.

Michael

Immersion is better than classes. If I had to do it over again I'd
find a gardener or house keeper who could teach me the language. That
fat kid in Spanglish would also learn some so she could apply to
Princeton. Speaking of intricacies I made a breakthrough this week in
processing the different Japanese native language sets
JIS,SHIFT_JIS,EUC-CP to lookup UNICODE values. It is a straight
forward calculation to reduce the language pairs for EUC-JP and JIS to
the KUTEN value (row,column decimal) stored under the JISX0208 column
(misnomer) in the Unihan database. For example the language pairs for
tea EUC-JP=C3E3, JIS=4363 easily reduce to KUTEN=3567. You then use
the KUTEN value to look up the corresponding UNICODE=8336 in Unihan.txt
which you download from Unicode.org. SHIFT_JIS=9283 is the byte pair
for tea. The calculation to reduce it to the intermediate usuable JIS
value is a bit nasty ie you will have to do a shift right bit
manipulation in the calculation. I found a C program on the Internet
that shows the calculation JIS2SJIS and SJIS2JIS. Leave it up to MS to
make life miserable who came up with the scheme for SHIFT_JIS and is
almost universally used in Japanese Web pages. For the curious geeks
you can use 9283 and see the glyph tea character and the corresponding
Unicode value using the MS SHIFT_JIS Charset at:
http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/r.../dbcs/932.mspx
In my case, my Rosetta Stone of tea information can now store any
Chinese or Japanese native language set byte pair strings. You turn
them into UNICODE and use with Google or translate with Babelfish.
Lew's BabelCarp is the online version my Rosetta Stone which is the
main reason I haven't gone public with mine. I came across a Japanese
web page for the academic tea schools in China which I'll chisel into
UNICODE and PINYIN.

Jim

Michael Plant wrote:
> Space 12/1/05
>
>
> > I've always been jealous of people who speak English as a second
> > language. I think they have to be sharper than average even the ones
> > who take the order in English and fill it in Spanish.
>
> snip
>
> Jim, I'm standing up and applauding your sentiment above. I agree completely
> and profoundly. It's no easy matter to learn English, and people struggle
> hugely to make even a little progress. As I said to my Spanish teacher last
> summer, I had to struggle hard to learn to speak bad Spanish well, and now
> I'm struggling to speak good Spanish badly. (This might sound criptic, but
> actually it refers to some of the complexities of Spanish grammar and the
> order in which they are learned.)
>
> BTW, I am not even attempting to follow the intricacies of the Chinese
> character discussion, but I am very interested in the corrected map of the
> Pu'erh area.
>
> Michael

"Space Cowboy" > writes:

> [...]
> Lew's BabelCarp is the online version my Rosetta Stone which is the
> main reason I haven't gone public with mine.

Jim: I would appreciate it if you would acknowledge that Babelcarp is
my effort rather than a "version" of your work.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Your Babelcarp and my Rosetta Stone have nothing to do with each other.
I was giving you kudos and didn't mean to imply what you're
suggesting. The only reason they're in the same sentence is from a
previous post where I noted you can't search using codes from Chinese
or Japanese native language sets just recently added Unicode. If I WAS
going to make the information in my Rosetta Stone available it would be
similar to what you did, simple keyword lookup instead of webpages.
I've been toying around with making the information available through
some automated email processing since I wouldn't have to pay for some
web server. Unfortunately MSN doesn't make available any POP3 and SMTP
and I've never got around to figure out what they require to interface
to their web based email.

Jim

PS: You now have the information available to process CJ language sets
in addition to Unicode. It took some digging which I made available
here. Since I'm here the four Unicode code characters from my Rosetta
Stone meaning Lapsang Souchong or Zhengshan Souchong from the NeoCathay
post don't match the last character on Babelcarp. I'd suggest also
returning the Unihan or Zhongwen link for each Unicode.

Lewis Perin wrote:
> "Space Cowboy" > writes:
>
> > [...]
> > Lew's BabelCarp is the online version my Rosetta Stone which is the
> > main reason I haven't gone public with mine.
>
> Jim: I would appreciate it if you would acknowledge that Babelcarp is
> my effort rather than a "version" of your work.
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin /
> http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html