Hi everyone,

A friend of mine just came back from a visit to China. He had with him
the coolest tea drinking decanter/glass thingy. It was a like a single
serving thermos, all glass with a metal strainer built into the top.
Pop off the metal strainer, pour in your hot water and tea leaves, put
the strainer back in place and then screw on a lid. After setting long
enough just drink right from decanter/glass.

Anyone see such things about on the net and can point me to a link or
two? Would appreciate any comments.

Cheers,
Eric

Search for Tea thermos on Ebay. Yellow Mountain imports sells them.

Melinda

--
"I know. You know I know. I know you know I know. We know Henry knows,
and Henry knows we know it."
We're a knowledgeable family." ::smiles:: -Geoffrey, Lion in Winter
"Eric" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hi everyone,
>
> A friend of mine just came back from a visit to China. He had with him
> the coolest tea drinking decanter/glass thingy. It was a like a single
> serving thermos, all glass with a metal strainer built into the top.
> Pop off the metal strainer, pour in your hot water and tea leaves, put
> the strainer back in place and then screw on a lid. After setting long
> enough just drink right from decanter/glass.
>
> Anyone see such things about on the net and can point me to a link or
> two? Would appreciate any comments.
>
> Cheers,
> Eric
>

"Eric" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hi everyone,
>
> A friend of mine just came back from a visit to China. He had with him
> the coolest tea drinking decanter/glass thingy. It was a like a single
> serving thermos, all glass with a metal strainer built into the top.
> Pop off the metal strainer, pour in your hot water and tea leaves, put
> the strainer back in place and then screw on a lid. After setting long
> enough just drink right from decanter/glass.
>
> Anyone see such things about on the net and can point me to a link or
> two? Would appreciate any comments.
>
> Cheers,
> Eric

If you don't want to buy off of eBay:

http://www.ymimports.com/ProductInfo.aspx?id=497894.

It's great for multi-infusion teas. I use water below 140 degrees F because
there's a longer steep since the tea leaves aren't removed before drinking.

--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

>> A friend of mine just came back from a visit to China. He had with him
>> the coolest tea drinking decanter/glass thingy. It was a like a single
>> serving thermos, all glass with a metal strainer built into the top.
>> Pop off the metal strainer, pour in your hot water and tea leaves, put
>> the strainer back in place and then screw on a lid. After setting long
>> enough just drink right from decanter/glass.
>>
>> Anyone see such things about on the net and can point me to a link or
>> two? Would appreciate any comments.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Eric
>
> If you don't want to buy off of eBay:
> http://www.ymimports.com/ProductInfo.aspx?id=497894.
> It's great for multi-infusion teas. I use water below 140 degrees F because
> there's a longer steep since the tea leaves aren't removed before drinking.

I use mine with water cooled to below room temperature. This gives green tea
a chance to slowly infuse as I travel. I just refill it now and again as I
move about. It's a great summer travel thing. Mine has a painting on the
glass wall, and phoney diamonds embedded into the guilded pastic top. It's
perfectly ugly in a perfect sort of way.

Michael

Thanks folks ... this is very much the idea of what I was looking for.

With the one referenced in the link, being a plastic based container,
does that detract from the look and feel of it over a glass container?
Does the bottle show scratches? The one I saw originally from China was
glass.

Cheers,
Eric

I really doubt that it was glass unless it was double-walled.
Some of the plastics they use are very dense and look and feel almost like
glass. The single-walled are almost exclusively plastic, only WangZi
double -walled are tempered glass (and they are expensive too).
Double-walled have quite a gap between the walls so you can easily see the
"internal glass" "hanging" there. I say that because if you ask for
double-walled and the vendor does not have it he will nod-nod-nod and offer
you one with thick walls which may look like it is double-walled but it
ain't. Beware! Again the trick is to look at the bottom part - the
double -walled is also double-walled on the bottom and it looks like there
is another glass hanging in the air inside. The only factory that I am aware
of that makes true double-walled is Wan Zi (Wan = King Zi = Son).

I know this 'cause I have several and I broke several too.

Sasha.


"Eric" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Thanks folks ... this is very much the idea of what I was looking for.
>
> With the one referenced in the link, being a plastic based container,
> does that detract from the look and feel of it over a glass container?
> Does the bottle show scratches? The one I saw originally from China was
> glass.
>
> Cheers,
> Eric
>

Yes, your right! The one I was looking at from China was indeed
doubled walled. I'm sorry I forgot to make that clear in my original
description. I know it was double walled because I was looking at it
closely, inside and from bottom.

Did you like you glass version better than a plastic variety?

Cheers,
Eric

I forgot to ask you, Sasha ... where did you get your glass ones?

Thanks,
Eric

I liked the double-walled glass version very much. It did keep the brew hot
for quite a time.
I got it in Beijing. After I broke it (dropped on the hard floor) I wanted a
replacement, but all my attempts to buy it in the US failed. Also you
can't but them at a street corner, I bought mine in a gift shop inside
Beijing International Hotel (the one with rotating restaurant on the top).
It was 80 Yuan. They also have a hologram on the top that is dark normally
and "develops" into an image of a deer when the liquid is hot. Nice since
you can't tell by just touching the outer wall. Kitschy, though.. (as almost
everything there)

Sasha.

"Eric" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>I forgot to ask you, Sasha ... where did you get your glass ones?
>
> Thanks,
> Eric
>

"Michael Plant" > wrote in message
...
>
> > If you don't want to buy off of eBay:
> > http://www.ymimports.com/ProductInfo.aspx?id=497894.
> > It's great for multi-infusion teas. I use water below 140 degrees F
because
> > there's a longer steep since the tea leaves aren't removed before
drinking.
>
> I use mine with water cooled to below room temperature. This gives green
tea
> a chance to slowly infuse as I travel. I just refill it now and again as I
> move about. It's a great summer travel thing. Mine has a painting on the
> glass wall, and phoney diamonds embedded into the guilded pastic top. It's
> perfectly ugly in a perfect sort of way.

Yes, lower temp for longer steep.

Have you tried using water from a drinking fountain since that water's
usually chilled?

--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

"Eric" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Thanks folks ... this is very much the idea of what I was looking for.
>
> With the one referenced in the link, being a plastic based container,
> does that detract from the look and feel of it over a glass container?

Funny, I'm so used to plastic for water bottles, travel mugs, and the like
that I never thought about it. I do use a glass mug so...yes, it's
different, but not as cheap-feeling as my travel mug and certainly not as
plasticy as my water bottle. The tea traveler's got more heft to it
and...and...well, I just like it better.

> Does the bottle show scratches?

Since it's plastic, I s'pose it will if I get rough with it. I got mine
about 7 months ago and haven't knocked it around or banged it against
anything much so it still looks good.

>The one I saw originally from China was glass.

Sorry, I don't know of any Chinese glass tea travelers, just this one.

--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

11/3/05


> Thanks folks ... this is very much the idea of what I was looking for.
>
> With the one referenced in the link, being a plastic based container,
> does that detract from the look and feel of it over a glass container?
> Does the bottle show scratches? The one I saw originally from China was
> glass.
>
> Cheers,
> Eric
>

Eric,

I like the feel and weight of glass. But, on the other hand, I broke three
of these, so there *is* a trade off. Truthfully, I don't think the plastic
would be a problem at all. What are the prices of these things nowadays?

Michael

Alex igy.net11/3/05


> I really doubt that it was glass unless it was double-walled.
> Some of the plastics they use are very dense and look and feel almost like
> glass. The single-walled are almost exclusively plastic, only WangZi
> double -walled are tempered glass (and they are expensive too).
> Double-walled have quite a gap between the walls so you can easily see the
> "internal glass" "hanging" there. I say that because if you ask for
> double-walled and the vendor does not have it he will nod-nod-nod and offer
> you one with thick walls which may look like it is double-walled but it
> ain't. Beware! Again the trick is to look at the bottom part - the
> double -walled is also double-walled on the bottom and it looks like there
> is another glass hanging in the air inside. The only factory that I am aware
> of that makes true double-walled is Wan Zi (Wan = King Zi = Son).
>
> I know this 'cause I have several and I broke several too.
>
> Sasha.


Hey, I thought were talking about the double walled sort. I wouldn't go for
the single walled. They don't make it. But, if they are plastic, they'll
make it longer than my doubled walled type, which, as I mentioned
previously, I have a graveyard full of.

Sasha, what about the Dostoyevski translation question? Did you read the
New Yorker article on this? As a yout, I read the Garnett translations, and
thought D's prose was pretty smooth, but it turns out, according to the
article, that the style I was actually enjoying was Victorian and Garnett.
I'm trying to find top flight translations of his novels.

Michael

11/3/05


> I forgot to ask you, Sasha ... where did you get your glass ones?
>
> Thanks,
> Eric
>

I'm not Sasha, I'm Michael.
I got mine in a Chinese "department store" in New York City called "The
Great Wall" on Canal Street just off the corner of Broadway. Sasha, what
about it?

Michael

11/4/05

>
> "Michael Plant" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>> If you don't want to buy off of eBay:
>>> http://www.ymimports.com/ProductInfo.aspx?id=497894.
>>> It's great for multi-infusion teas. I use water below 140 degrees F
> because
>>> there's a longer steep since the tea leaves aren't removed before
> drinking.
>>
>> I use mine with water cooled to below room temperature. This gives green
> tea
>> a chance to slowly infuse as I travel. I just refill it now and again as I
>> move about. It's a great summer travel thing. Mine has a painting on the
>> glass wall, and phoney diamonds embedded into the guilded pastic top. It's
>> perfectly ugly in a perfect sort of way.
>
> Yes, lower temp for longer steep.
>
> Have you tried using water from a drinking fountain since that water's
> usually chilled?

Yes, and to good effect.
Michael

BTW, I see I have quite a string of posts this morning on rfdt. This, by the
grace of God and for the weal of the tea drinking world, will be the last.

Michael Plant wrote:


> Hey, I thought were talking about the double walled sort. I wouldn't go for
> the single walled. They don't make it. But, if they are plastic, they'll
> make it longer than my doubled walled type, which, as I mentioned
> previously, I have a graveyard full of.

I bought the plastic "Best Chinese THERMOS Tea Pot Teapot in
China" on eBay 7-8 months ago for $9.99 from the vendor (Yellow
Mountain) mentioned up-thread, and I've found it to be a
perfectly handy alternative brewing device. Although I'm usually
reluctant to use plastic containers for tea, this one tolerates
high temps very well without imparting any plastic-y tastes to
the liquor. No drips or leaks, either -- as long as the top is
screwed on properly.

> Sasha, what about the Dostoyevski translation question? Did you read the
> New Yorker article on this? As a yout, I read the Garnett translations, and
> thought D's prose was pretty smooth, but it turns out, according to the
> article, that the style I was actually enjoying was Victorian and Garnett.
> I'm trying to find top flight translations of his novels.

I'm not Sasha, I can't read Russian, and I haven't seen the New
Yorker article you're referring to, but I've been a Dostoevsky
aficionada for 40+ years and can highly recommend the translation
team of Richard Pevear and Larissa Volokhonsky. Their
English-language texts are splendid, and although Constance
Garnett's work is reliably solid, the Pevear-Volokhonsky
renditions are beautifully literary in their own right/write.
The duo has also produced an excellent translation of (among
other works) Bulgakov's "The Master and Margarita," in case
you're interested.

Ourania link.net11/4/05


> Michael Plant wrote:
>
>
>> Hey, I thought were talking about the double walled sort. I wouldn't go for
>> the single walled. They don't make it. But, if they are plastic, they'll
>> make it longer than my doubled walled type, which, as I mentioned
>> previously, I have a graveyard full of.
>
> I bought the plastic "Best Chinese THERMOS Tea Pot Teapot in
> China" on eBay 7-8 months ago for $9.99 from the vendor (Yellow
> Mountain) mentioned up-thread, and I've found it to be a
> perfectly handy alternative brewing device. Although I'm usually
> reluctant to use plastic containers for tea, this one tolerates
> high temps very well without imparting any plastic-y tastes to
> the liquor. No drips or leaks, either -- as long as the top is
> screwed on properly.
>
>> Sasha, what about the Dostoyevski translation question? Did you read the
>> New Yorker article on this? As a yout, I read the Garnett translations, and
>> thought D's prose was pretty smooth, but it turns out, according to the
>> article, that the style I was actually enjoying was Victorian and Garnett.
>> I'm trying to find top flight translations of his novels.
>
> I'm not Sasha, I can't read Russian, and I haven't seen the New
> Yorker article you're referring to, but I've been a Dostoevsky
> aficionada for 40+ years and can highly recommend the translation
> team of Richard Pevear and Larissa Volokhonsky. Their
> English-language texts are splendid, and although Constance
> Garnett's work is reliably solid, the Pevear-Volokhonsky
> renditions are beautifully literary in their own right/write.
> The duo has also produced an excellent translation of (among
> other works) Bulgakov's "The Master and Margarita," in case
> you're interested.

Yes, thanks muchly, I'm very interested. Curiously, the author of the
article wrote that the Garnett translations clean up much of the rough edge
that Dostoyevski purposely placed into the prose, the mouths of his
narrators, while the Pevear-Volokhonsky versions maintain the rougher spirit
of the original. So, it's interesting to hear you refer to their
translations as beautifully literary. Did Dostoyevski drink tea? That is
the question. Why? That being the second question. Because without that
question *somebody* is sure to call us on irelevance and send us packing to
Dostoyevski.net. But, we'll refuse to go, right?

I'm about to embark on some Stone Orchard Scented Luk On (Liu An?) supplied
to a friend of mine by another friend of ours. So, here goes nothing.

Michael

Michael Plant wrote:

> Yes, thanks muchly, I'm very interested. Curiously, the author of the
> article wrote that the Garnett translations clean up much of the rough edge
> that Dostoyevski purposely placed into the prose, the mouths of his
> narrators, while the Pevear-Volokhonsky versions maintain the rougher spirit
> of the original. So, it's interesting to hear you refer to their
> translations as beautifully literary.

To me, "beautifully literary" doesn't in any way imply smooth or
cleaned up text, but rather refers to the translators' ability to
render the English-language prose in an artful (as well as
faithful) style. And it's the "rougher spirit" (I'd describe it
as "unmediated spirit") that I so appreciate in the
Pevear-Volokhonsky translations.

Did Dostoyevski drink tea? That is the question.

Yes, he did, and his characters drank tea, as well. In fact, in
"Notes from Underground" the narrator says something like, "The
world can go to hell as long as I can always have my tea," a
sentiment I'm sure many of us share.

Why? That being the second question.

Because he was a man of profound complexity and obviously good taste.

> I'm about to embark on some Stone Orchard Scented Luk On (Liu An?) supplied
> to a friend of mine by another friend of ours. So, here goes nothing.

I'm enjoying an aged bao zhong myself. I hope your nothing was
something.

Ourania link.net11/4/05


> Michael Plant wrote:
>
>> Yes, thanks muchly, I'm very interested. Curiously, the author of the
>> article wrote that the Garnett translations clean up much of the rough edge
>> that Dostoyevski purposely placed into the prose, the mouths of his
>> narrators, while the Pevear-Volokhonsky versions maintain the rougher spirit
>> of the original. So, it's interesting to hear you refer to their
>> translations as beautifully literary.
>
> To me, "beautifully literary" doesn't in any way imply smooth or
> cleaned up text, but rather refers to the translators' ability to
> render the English-language prose in an artful (as well as
> faithful) style. And it's the "rougher spirit" (I'd describe it
> as "unmediated spirit") that I so appreciate in the
> Pevear-Volokhonsky translations.

I shall get my hands on "The Possessed" and "The Idiot" in their translation
for a leisurely rereading. Thanks, I appreciate your astute comments.
>
> Did Dostoyevski drink tea? That is the question.
>
> Yes, he did, and his characters drank tea, as well. In fact, in
> "Notes from Underground" the narrator says something like, "The
> world can go to hell as long as I can always have my tea," a
> sentiment I'm sure many of us share.
>
> Why? That being the second question.
>
> Because he was a man of profound complexity and obviously good taste.
>
>> I'm about to embark on some Stone Orchard Scented Luk On (Liu An?) supplied
>> to a friend of mine by another friend of ours. So, here goes nothing.
>
> I'm enjoying an aged bao zhong myself. I hope your nothing was
> something.

Later for the nothing-something. Now, about that "aged" Bao Zhong: I would
have thought we have here a bit of a contradiction in terms. To me -- I know
there are other species -- a Bao Zhong ought to be only slightly oxidized,
be emerald green in dry and wet leaf, have a lovely mouth feel, and carry
the delicacy of melon or cucumber flowers. The finish should be long and
smooth and refreshing. Could it be that "aged Bao Zhong" is the "invention"
of a vendor who forgot to take it out of storage, and didn't want to chuck
it? More seriously, I'd never heard of aged Bao Zhong. I have however heard
of Bao Zhongs oxidized at or even over 50%. I think little of them.

I can see where excellent Bao Zhong is difficult to produce, given the
narrow window of its delicate melon flower fragrance and taste; I can also
therefore see how "they" would want us to adapt the dregs and left overs of
their failed productions. (I need an attitude adjustment, I know.)

Best,
Michael

Here is a doubled walled see through glass or plastic. It doesn't say.

http://www.thejoyofteaonline.com/

Jim

Eric wrote:
> Yes, your right! The one I was looking at from China was indeed
> doubled walled. I'm sorry I forgot to make that clear in my original
> description. I know it was double walled because I was looking at it
> closely, inside and from bottom.
>
> Did you like you glass version better than a plastic variety?
>
> Cheers,
> Eric

Michael Plant wrote:

> I shall get my hands on "The Possessed" and "The Idiot" in their translation
> for a leisurely rereading. Thanks, I appreciate your astute comments.

Unless you don't care for the novel itself, I recommend reading
their translation of "The Brothers Karamazov" first. It's
stunning, not only as a translation, but of course as a
masterpiece by Dostoyevski, as well.

> Later for the nothing-something. Now, about that "aged" Bao Zhong: I would
> have thought we have here a bit of a contradiction in terms. To me -- I know
> there are other species -- a Bao Zhong ought to be only slightly oxidized,
> be emerald green in dry and wet leaf, have a lovely mouth feel, and carry
> the delicacy of melon or cucumber flowers. The finish should be long and
> smooth and refreshing. Could it be that "aged Bao Zhong" is the "invention"
> of a vendor who forgot to take it out of storage, and didn't want to chuck
> it? More seriously, I'd never heard of aged Bao Zhong. I have however heard
> of Bao Zhongs oxidized at or even over 50%. I think little of them.

No, I'm the forgetful ager who inadvertently allowed ~100g of
perfectly fine Spring '02 Bao Zhong to remain undrunk and hidden
in the back a tea cabinet for 3-1/2 years. I'm surprised by its
acquired depth and body, though -- the delicacy having been
replaced by an incipient fermentation similar to that of a
youthful green pu-erh in its third or fourth year. A happy find,
all in all.

Ourania link.net11/5/05


> Michael Plant wrote:
>
>> I shall get my hands on "The Possessed" and "The Idiot" in their translation
>> for a leisurely rereading. Thanks, I appreciate your astute comments.
>
> Unless you don't care for the novel itself, I recommend reading
> their translation of "The Brothers Karamazov" first. It's
> stunning, not only as a translation, but of course as a
> masterpiece by Dostoyevski, as well.

We're talking about rereads using different translations, though.
Nonetheless, who could disagree about the Brothers K?
>
>> Later for the nothing-something. Now, about that "aged" Bao Zhong: I would
>> have thought we have here a bit of a contradiction in terms. To me -- I know
>> there are other species -- a Bao Zhong ought to be only slightly oxidized,
>> be emerald green in dry and wet leaf, have a lovely mouth feel, and carry
>> the delicacy of melon or cucumber flowers. The finish should be long and
>> smooth and refreshing. Could it be that "aged Bao Zhong" is the "invention"
>> of a vendor who forgot to take it out of storage, and didn't want to chuck
>> it? More seriously, I'd never heard of aged Bao Zhong. I have however heard
>> of Bao Zhongs oxidized at or even over 50%. I think little of them.
>
> No, I'm the forgetful ager who inadvertently allowed ~100g of
> perfectly fine Spring '02 Bao Zhong to remain undrunk and hidden
> in the back a tea cabinet for 3-1/2 years. I'm surprised by its
> acquired depth and body, though -- the delicacy having been
> replaced by an incipient fermentation similar to that of a
> youthful green pu-erh in its third or fourth year. A happy find,
> all in all.

Wow. Impressive. Good for you. Fortuitous accident, indeed.

Michael

"Michael Plant" > wrote in message
...
> 11/4/05
>
> >
> > "Michael Plant" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >>> If you don't want to buy off of eBay:
> >>> http://www.ymimports.com/ProductInfo.aspx?id=497894.
> >>> It's great for multi-infusion teas. I use water below 140 degrees F
> > because
> >>> there's a longer steep since the tea leaves aren't removed before
> > drinking.
> >>
> >> I use mine with water cooled to below room temperature. This gives
green
> > tea
> >> a chance to slowly infuse as I travel. I just refill it now and again
as I
> >> move about. It's a great summer travel thing. Mine has a painting on
the
> >> glass wall, and phoney diamonds embedded into the guilded pastic top.
It's
> >> perfectly ugly in a perfect sort of way.
> >
> > Yes, lower temp for longer steep.
> >
> > Have you tried using water from a drinking fountain since that water's
> > usually chilled?
>
> Yes, and to good effect.

Thanks, I'll have to try it then, myself.

> Michael
>
> BTW, I see I have quite a string of posts this morning on rfdt. This, by
the
> grace of God and for the weal of the tea drinking world, will be the last.

Why? What did I miss?


--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

"Michael Plant" > wrote in message
...
> 11/3/05
>
>
> > Thanks folks ... this is very much the idea of what I was looking for.
> >
> > With the one referenced in the link, being a plastic based container,
> > does that detract from the look and feel of it over a glass container?
> > Does the bottle show scratches? The one I saw originally from China was
> > glass.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Eric
> >
>
> Eric,
>
> I like the feel and weight of glass. But, on the other hand, I broke three
> of these, so there *is* a trade off. Truthfully, I don't think the plastic
> would be a problem at all. What are the prices of these things nowadays?
>
> Michael


$10.00


--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

Michael -

I am a wrong guy to ask about Dostoevsky translations. Reading it in Russian
is the only thing on this planet that makes me suicidal. Every *&^king time.
When my wife and daughter used to go visit some friends that I do not like
very much for a week or longer they would hide all our Dostoevsky books in
my library (I am dead serious!). After just being alone for two-three days I
usually open "Brothers Karamazov" and a day later find myself all day in bed
thinking dark thoughts.
Dostoevsky is a very Russian writer. I say that as a non-Russian (or rather
non-Slavic Russian). English language, I am sure, cannot bare that much
guilt and sadness and desperation. I once (many years ago) was
reading-translating Dostoevsky in bed to a young English girl I was in love
with, who asked me in a trembling voice after a while how can I not cry when
I read this? I said that a current hydraulic situation does not allow a male
organism to shed even a tiny drop of a liquid. She called me a cynical
monster and an evil beast. Much later she told me that precisely at that
moment she realized that she will love me forever and that she will never
marry me.
Fyodor Michailovitch does strange things to people.

Majority of translations work from Russian into English is just a re-write
of a story into mediocre English. Exceptions are rare but spectacular. The
above mentioned Pevear - Volkonsky translations are my favorite. While my
daughter was 14 she asked me to introduce her to serious Russian literature
and I decided to do it seriously. There is an excellent Russian book "Master
and Margarita" by M. Bulgakov that is rare in the sense that it gives
equally as much pleasure and food for thought for both simple and
sophisticated minds. I happen to know many passages by heart and I cited
them to her (beautiful prose easy to remember almost as poetry) and made her
remember them by heart. Then we went to the B&N and I asked her to choose
among 4 or 5 translations the one she would feel fit the passages she knows
best. Her choice (and mine, independently) was Pevear - Volkonsky.

There is another guy (Paul... I forgot his last name although I met him
several times) from Oxford or Cambridge or both, he must be about 80 now and
he translated many works by Tolstoy in the most excellent, precise and
humorous way.

One of the most interesting and extremely and profoundly prophetic work of
FMD is rarely discussed in the West "The Devils". You may like it.

Sasha.






"Michael Plant" > wrote in message
...
> Ourania link.net11/5/05
>
>
>> Michael Plant wrote:
>>
>>> I shall get my hands on "The Possessed" and "The Idiot" in their
>>> translation
>>> for a leisurely rereading. Thanks, I appreciate your astute comments.
>>
>> Unless you don't care for the novel itself, I recommend reading
>> their translation of "The Brothers Karamazov" first. It's
>> stunning, not only as a translation, but of course as a
>> masterpiece by Dostoyevski, as well.
>
> We're talking about rereads using different translations, though.
> Nonetheless, who could disagree about the Brothers K?
>>
>>> Later for the nothing-something. Now, about that "aged" Bao Zhong: I
>>> would
>>> have thought we have here a bit of a contradiction in terms. To me -- I
>>> know
>>> there are other species -- a Bao Zhong ought to be only slightly
>>> oxidized,
>>> be emerald green in dry and wet leaf, have a lovely mouth feel, and
>>> carry
>>> the delicacy of melon or cucumber flowers. The finish should be long and
>>> smooth and refreshing. Could it be that "aged Bao Zhong" is the
>>> "invention"
>>> of a vendor who forgot to take it out of storage, and didn't want to
>>> chuck
>>> it? More seriously, I'd never heard of aged Bao Zhong. I have however
>>> heard
>>> of Bao Zhongs oxidized at or even over 50%. I think little of them.
>>
>> No, I'm the forgetful ager who inadvertently allowed ~100g of
>> perfectly fine Spring '02 Bao Zhong to remain undrunk and hidden
>> in the back a tea cabinet for 3-1/2 years. I'm surprised by its
>> acquired depth and body, though -- the delicacy having been
>> replaced by an incipient fermentation similar to that of a
>> youthful green pu-erh in its third or fourth year. A happy find,
>> all in all.
>
> Wow. Impressive. Good for you. Fortuitous accident, indeed.
>
> Michael
>
>

Alex gy.com11/11/05


> Michael -
>
> I am a wrong guy to ask about Dostoevsky translations. Reading it in Russian
> is the only thing on this planet that makes me suicidal. Every *&^king time.
> When my wife and daughter used to go visit some friends that I do not like
> very much for a week or longer they would hide all our Dostoevsky books in
> my library (I am dead serious!). After just being alone for two-three days I
> usually open "Brothers Karamazov" and a day later find myself all day in bed
> thinking dark thoughts.

Yes, I know what you mean. That's why he remains my favorite author next to
Joyce.

> Dostoevsky is a very Russian writer. I say that as a non-Russian (or rather
> non-Slavic Russian). English language, I am sure, cannot bare that much
> guilt and sadness and desperation. I once (many years ago) was
> reading-translating Dostoevsky in bed to a young English girl I was in love
> with, who asked me in a trembling voice after a while how can I not cry when
> I read this? I said that a current hydraulic situation does not allow a male
> organism to shed even a tiny drop of a liquid. She called me a cynical
> monster and an evil beast. Much later she told me that precisely at that
> moment she realized that she will love me forever and that she will never
> marry me.
> Fyodor Michailovitch does strange things to people.

Have you read Hardy?
>
> Majority of translations work from Russian into English is just a re-write
> of a story into mediocre English. Exceptions are rare but spectacular. The
> above mentioned Pevear - Volkonsky translations are my favorite.

I've chosen them for the latest re-reads.

>While my
> daughter was 14 she asked me to introduce her to serious Russian literature
> and I decided to do it seriously. There is an excellent Russian book "Master
> and Margarita" by M. Bulgakov that is rare in the sense that it gives
> equally as much pleasure and food for thought for both simple and
> sophisticated minds.

If you do say so yourself?

>I happen to know many passages by heart and I cited
> them to her (beautiful prose easy to remember almost as poetry) and made her
> remember them by heart. Then we went to the B&N and I asked her to choose
> among 4 or 5 translations the one she would feel fit the passages she knows
> best. Her choice (and mine, independently) was Pevear - Volkonsky.

Cool.
>
> There is another guy (Paul... I forgot his last name although I met him
> several times) from Oxford or Cambridge or both, he must be about 80 now and
> he translated many works by Tolstoy in the most excellent, precise and
> humorous way.
>
> One of the most interesting and extremely and profoundly prophetic work of
> FMD is rarely discussed in the West "The Devils". You may like it.

Ah, such a light hearted and simple minded little read. So *** and tripping.
Jeez. But, yes, it's next on my list in fact. (I'm partial to The Idiot.The
prince is so like myself. (Yuk.)

Seriously Sasha, your posts are always a delight.

Michael

"Michael Plant" > wrote in message
...
> Alex gy.com11/11/05
>
>
>> Michael -
>>
>> I am a wrong guy to ask about Dostoevsky translations. Reading it in
>> Russian
>> is the only thing on this planet that makes me suicidal. Every *&^king
>> time.
>> When my wife and daughter used to go visit some friends that I do not
>> like
>> very much for a week or longer they would hide all our Dostoevsky books
>> in
>> my library (I am dead serious!). After just being alone for two-three
>> days I
>> usually open "Brothers Karamazov" and a day later find myself all day in
>> bed
>> thinking dark thoughts.
>
> Yes, I know what you mean. That's why he remains my favorite author next
> to
> Joyce.

Well, Joyce for me is a lithmus test. If an English speaking person does not
like Joyce, he should be arrested and lie-detectored as a possible Russian
spy. If a non-English speaking person likes Joyce - he is a liar and a
pretentious literary snob.

>
>> Dostoevsky is a very Russian writer. I say that as a non-Russian (or
>> rather
>> non-Slavic Russian). English language, I am sure, cannot bare that much
>> guilt and sadness and desperation. I once (many years ago) was
>> reading-translating Dostoevsky in bed to a young English girl I was in
>> love
>> with, who asked me in a trembling voice after a while how can I not cry
>> when
>> I read this? I said that a current hydraulic situation does not allow a
>> male
>> organism to shed even a tiny drop of a liquid. She called me a cynical
>> monster and an evil beast. Much later she told me that precisely at that
>> moment she realized that she will love me forever and that she will never
>> marry me.
>> Fyodor Michailovitch does strange things to people.
>
> Have you read Hardy?

If you mean Thomas Hardy, yes and no. I tried "Tess of D'Something" and the
language killed me. However he is the author of one of my favourite
aphorizms (which actually get a second meaning in light of current Scooter
Libby-Miller scandal :
"A lover without indiscretion is no lover at all".

>>
>> Majority of translations work from Russian into English is just a
>> re-write
>> of a story into mediocre English. Exceptions are rare but spectacular.
>> The
>> above mentioned Pevear - Volkonsky translations are my favorite.
>
> I've chosen them for the latest re-reads.
>
>>While my
>> daughter was 14 she asked me to introduce her to serious Russian
>> literature
>> and I decided to do it seriously. There is an excellent Russian book
>> "Master
>> and Margarita" by M. Bulgakov that is rare in the sense that it gives
>> equally as much pleasure and food for thought for both simple and
>> sophisticated minds.
>
> If you do say so yourself?

I do not think I understood that remark of yours. Remember I am just a poor
imm. No speak English good.

>
>>I happen to know many passages by heart and I cited
>> them to her (beautiful prose easy to remember almost as poetry) and made
>> her
>> remember them by heart. Then we went to the B&N and I asked her to choose
>> among 4 or 5 translations the one she would feel fit the passages she
>> knows
>> best. Her choice (and mine, independently) was Pevear - Volkonsky.
>
> Cool.
>>
>> There is another guy (Paul... I forgot his last name although I met him
>> several times) from Oxford or Cambridge or both, he must be about 80 now
>> and
>> he translated many works by Tolstoy in the most excellent, precise and
>> humorous way.
>>
>> One of the most interesting and extremely and profoundly prophetic work
>> of
>> FMD is rarely discussed in the West "The Devils". You may like it.
>
> Ah, such a light hearted and simple minded little read. So *** and
> tripping.
> Jeez. But, yes, it's next on my list in fact. (I'm partial to The
> Idiot.The
> prince is so like myself. (Yuk.)

This is one of these little interesting translation thingies. This "prince"
is a bad translation. The Russian word is " knyaz' " and although
historically it is translated into "prince", something in me always cringes
when I read it... Despite the fact that its completely irrelevant for the
story... Knyaz Myshkin is a tragic figure, "Prince" Myshkin is a character
from vaudeville...

>
> Seriously Sasha, your posts are always a delight.

Catching every possibility to bask in the setting rays of my First Amendment
rights.

Sasha.

>
> Michael
>
>

I had to read the Tess D' thing for class. Do you know the name of
Tess's baby? Toci
(I believe we are now off topic.)
Diane wrote:
> In article > ,
> "Alex Chaihorsky" > wrote:
>
> > > Have you read Hardy?
> >
> > If you mean Thomas Hardy, yes and no. I tried "Tess of D'Something" and the
> > language killed me.
>
> On the other hand, I love Thomas Hardy's novels and stories. Haven't had
> a chance to read the poetry.
> --
> Web site: http://www.slywy.com/
> Message board: http://www.slywy.com/phpBB2/
> Journal: http://slywy.diaryland.com/

Diane > wrote:
> "Alex Chaihorsky" > wrote:
>
>> Well, Joyce for me is a lithmus test. If an English speaking person does not
>> like Joyce, he should be arrested and lie-detectored as a possible Russian
>> spy.
>
>I don't like Joyce. Sue me.

When I was about twelve, I tried very hard to read Ulysses because I had
been told it was dirty. I was unable to make head or tail of it, and went
away thinking I was missing something.

Years later, in grad school, I tried reading it again. And I _still_
couldn't make head or tail of it.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Michael's astute comments interleft (interleaved?) below in response to
Sasha's extraordinary wit and literary wisdom.

>>> Michael -
>>>
>>> I am a wrong guy to ask about Dostoevsky translations. Reading it in
>>> Russian
>>> is the only thing on this planet that makes me suicidal. Every *&^king
>>> time.
>>> When my wife and daughter used to go visit some friends that I do not
>>> like
>>> very much for a week or longer they would hide all our Dostoevsky books
>>> in
>>> my library (I am dead serious!). After just being alone for two-three
>>> days I
>>> usually open "Brothers Karamazov" and a day later find myself all day in
>>> bed
>>> thinking dark thoughts.
>>
>> Yes, I know what you mean. That's why he remains my favorite author next
>> to
>> Joyce.
>
> Well, Joyce for me is a lithmus test. If an English speaking person does not
> like Joyce, he should be arrested and lie-detectored as a possible Russian
> spy. If a non-English speaking person likes Joyce - he is a liar and a
> pretentious literary snob.

I hate to admit it, but I have come to the same conclusion; Japanese and
Swiss German speakers should not be allowed to read Joyce. Who's kidding
whom, right?
>
>>> Dostoevsky is a very Russian writer. I say that as a non-Russian (or
>>> rather
>>> non-Slavic Russian). English language, I am sure, cannot bare that much
>>> guilt and sadness and desperation. I once (many years ago) was
>>> reading-translating Dostoevsky in bed to a young English girl I was in
>>> love
>>> with, who asked me in a trembling voice after a while how can I not cry
>>> when
>>> I read this? I said that a current hydraulic situation does not allow a
>>> male
>>> organism to shed even a tiny drop of a liquid. She called me a cynical
>>> monster and an evil beast. Much later she told me that precisely at that
>>> moment she realized that she will love me forever and that she will never
>>> marry me.
>>> Fyodor Michailovitch does strange things to people.
>>
>> Have you read Hardy?
>
> If you mean Thomas Hardy, yes and no. I tried "Tess of D'Something" and the
> language killed me. However he is the author of one of my favourite
> aphorizms (which actually get a second meaning in light of current Scooter
> Libby-Miller scandal :
> "A lover without indiscretion is no lover at all".

Apparently nobody told this to the Brothers K. It coulda saved 'em a heap
o'trouble.

>>> Majority of translations work from Russian into English is just a
>>> re-write
>>> of a story into mediocre English. Exceptions are rare but spectacular.
>>> The
>>> above mentioned Pevear - Volkonsky translations are my favorite.
>>
>> I've chosen them for the latest re-reads.
>>
>>> While my
>>> daughter was 14 she asked me to introduce her to serious Russian
>>> literature
>>> and I decided to do it seriously. There is an excellent Russian book
>>> "Master
>>> and Margarita" by M. Bulgakov that is rare in the sense that it gives
>>> equally as much pleasure and food for thought for both simple and
>>> sophisticated minds.
>>
>> If you do say so yourself?
>
> I do not think I understood that remark of yours. Remember I am just a poor
> imm. No speak English good.

Just a friendly way of suggesting you are bragging about your daughter,
which of course, from what you say, you should.

>>> I happen to know many passages by heart and I cited
>>> them to her (beautiful prose easy to remember almost as poetry) and made
>>> her
>>> remember them by heart. Then we went to the B&N and I asked her to choose
>>> among 4 or 5 translations the one she would feel fit the passages she
>>> knows
>>> best. Her choice (and mine, independently) was Pevear - Volkonsky.
>>
>> Cool.
>>>
>>> There is another guy (Paul... I forgot his last name although I met him
>>> several times) from Oxford or Cambridge or both, he must be about 80 now
>>> and
>>> he translated many works by Tolstoy in the most excellent, precise and
>>> humorous way.
>>>
>>> One of the most interesting and extremely and profoundly prophetic work
>>> of
>>> FMD is rarely discussed in the West "The Devils". You may like it.
>>
>> Ah, such a light hearted and simple minded little read. So *** and
>> tripping.
>> Jeez. But, yes, it's next on my list in fact. (I'm partial to The
>> Idiot.The
>> prince is so like myself. (Yuk.)
>
> This is one of these little interesting translation thingies. This "prince"
> is a bad translation. The Russian word is " knyaz' " and although
> historically it is translated into "prince", something in me always cringes
> when I read it... Despite the fact that its completely irrelevant for the
> story... Knyaz Myshkin is a tragic figure, "Prince" Myshkin is a character
> from vaudeville...

You are commenting on the difference between the original vis-a-vis the
English translation in general? Sad. There is a caracaturish thing
happening, but I hope the feeling of the translation isn't that far amiss.

>> Seriously Sasha, your posts are always a delight.

> Catching every possibility to bask in the setting rays of my First Amendment
> rights.

Setting rays, yes. I intend to spend my own twilight years away, so I can
watch democracy's dissolution from afar.

I had decided to add a relevating tea comment here, but thought better of
it.

Michael

11/12/05


> In article > ,
> "Alex Chaihorsky" > wrote:
>
>>> Have you read Hardy?
>>
>> If you mean Thomas Hardy, yes and no. I tried "Tess of D'Something" and the
>> language killed me.
>
> On the other hand, I love Thomas Hardy's novels and stories. Haven't had
> a chance to read the poetry.

These are both problems you will have to deal with yourself, Diane. Can't
help you, despite your pleas. Sorry.
Michael

11/12/05


> I had to read the Tess D' thing for class. Do you know the name of
> Tess's baby? Toci
> (I believe we are now off topic.)

Shhhhh! At least we're not fighting.
Michael
PS: Forgot. I'll look it up tonight, unless somebody comes up with the name.

Scott /12/05

> Diane > wrote:
>> "Alex Chaihorsky" > wrote:
>>
>>> Well, Joyce for me is a lithmus test. If an English speaking person does not
>>> like Joyce, he should be arrested and lie-detectored as a possible Russian
>>> spy.
>>
>> I don't like Joyce. Sue me.
>
> When I was about twelve, I tried very hard to read Ulysses because I had
> been told it was dirty. I was unable to make head or tail of it, and went
> away thinking I was missing something.
>
> Years later, in grad school, I tried reading it again. And I _still_
> couldn't make head or tail of it.

Seriously Scott, it's a day in the life, and not that hidden. They prowl
around Dublin, meet, pee together, and split. The dirty parts are good
literature, and that's always a downer for prurience. Sorry.

Michael

> --scott

"Michael Plant" > wrote in message
...
>
> Michael's astute comments interleft (interleaved?) below in response to
> Sasha's extraordinary wit and literary wisdom.
>
>>>> Michael -
>>>>
>>>> I am a wrong guy to ask about Dostoevsky translations. Reading it in
>>>> Russian
>>>> is the only thing on this planet that makes me suicidal. Every *&^king
>>>> time.
>>>> When my wife and daughter used to go visit some friends that I do not
>>>> like
>>>> very much for a week or longer they would hide all our Dostoevsky books
>>>> in
>>>> my library (I am dead serious!). After just being alone for two-three
>>>> days I
>>>> usually open "Brothers Karamazov" and a day later find myself all day
>>>> in
>>>> bed
>>>> thinking dark thoughts.
>>>
>>> Yes, I know what you mean. That's why he remains my favorite author next
>>> to
>>> Joyce.
>>
>> Well, Joyce for me is a lithmus test. If an English speaking person does
>> not
>> like Joyce, he should be arrested and lie-detectored as a possible
>> Russian
>> spy. If a non-English speaking person likes Joyce - he is a liar and a
>> pretentious literary snob.
>
> I hate to admit it, but I have come to the same conclusion; Japanese and
> Swiss German speakers should not be allowed to read Joyce. Who's kidding
> whom, right?

Precisely!. I love to torture these people by pretending (they started it!)
to be impressed and asking them about the details. Oh, the pure sadistic joy
of it!. I think English speaking rapists must be taught serious Joyce
courses and then given a chance to talk Joyce with German professors. They
would never go back!


>>
>>>> Dostoevsky is a very Russian writer. I say that as a non-Russian (or
>>>> rather
>>>> non-Slavic Russian). English language, I am sure, cannot bare that much
>>>> guilt and sadness and desperation. I once (many years ago) was
>>>> reading-translating Dostoevsky in bed to a young English girl I was in
>>>> love
>>>> with, who asked me in a trembling voice after a while how can I not cry
>>>> when
>>>> I read this? I said that a current hydraulic situation does not allow a
>>>> male
>>>> organism to shed even a tiny drop of a liquid. She called me a cynical
>>>> monster and an evil beast. Much later she told me that precisely at
>>>> that
>>>> moment she realized that she will love me forever and that she will
>>>> never
>>>> marry me.
>>>> Fyodor Michailovitch does strange things to people.
>>>
>>> Have you read Hardy?
>>
>> If you mean Thomas Hardy, yes and no. I tried "Tess of D'Something" and
>> the
>> language killed me. However he is the author of one of my favourite
>> aphorizms (which actually get a second meaning in light of current
>> Scooter
>> Libby-Miller scandal :
>> "A lover without indiscretion is no lover at all".
>
> Apparently nobody told this to the Brothers K. It coulda saved 'em a heap
> o'trouble.

Ha! Really - HA!
Rarely I have such a pleasure from a comment made by another living person
(My own are obvious exception.)
I think this comment of yours makes it to a highest level of perfectly
cynical but strangely kind kind, an unusually perfect style combination of
Russian hopeless tragic tone and a dry, optimistic English humour. One of
a pure ikebana quality.
The usage of "coulda and heap o'trouble" inserts some red-blooded
Americanism here and it all gets multidimentional and sparkly at once!.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart! It made my week!

Makes me sad, though, that my knowledge of English is still too awkwardly -
you and I could have spent a nice evening once or twice a month doing
this... I miss that...


>
>>>> Majority of translations work from Russian into English is just a
>>>> re-write
>>>> of a story into mediocre English. Exceptions are rare but spectacular.
>>>> The
>>>> above mentioned Pevear - Volkonsky translations are my favorite.
>>>
>>> I've chosen them for the latest re-reads.
>>>
>>>> While my
>>>> daughter was 14 she asked me to introduce her to serious Russian
>>>> literature
>>>> and I decided to do it seriously. There is an excellent Russian book
>>>> "Master
>>>> and Margarita" by M. Bulgakov that is rare in the sense that it gives
>>>> equally as much pleasure and food for thought for both simple and
>>>> sophisticated minds.
>>>
>>> If you do say so yourself?
>>
>> I do not think I understood that remark of yours. Remember I am just a
>> poor
>> imm. No speak English good.
>
> Just a friendly way of suggesting you are bragging about your daughter,
> which of course, from what you say, you should.

I am one of these rare fathers that beat the shit out of their kids but at
the same time state openly that they reached and exceeded my wildest
expectations. I am still a very strikt and short-tempered Dad, but I also
admit that what is relevant to me is not that I am proud of my 18 years old,
but that she is proud of me.

>
>>>> I happen to know many passages by heart and I cited
>>>> them to her (beautiful prose easy to remember almost as poetry) and
>>>> made
>>>> her
>>>> remember them by heart. Then we went to the B&N and I asked her to
>>>> choose
>>>> among 4 or 5 translations the one she would feel fit the passages she
>>>> knows
>>>> best. Her choice (and mine, independently) was Pevear - Volkonsky.
>>>
>>> Cool.
>>>>
>>>> There is another guy (Paul... I forgot his last name although I met him
>>>> several times) from Oxford or Cambridge or both, he must be about 80
>>>> now
>>>> and
>>>> he translated many works by Tolstoy in the most excellent, precise and
>>>> humorous way.
>>>>
>>>> One of the most interesting and extremely and profoundly prophetic work
>>>> of
>>>> FMD is rarely discussed in the West "The Devils". You may like it.
>>>
>>> Ah, such a light hearted and simple minded little read. So *** and
>>> tripping.
>>> Jeez. But, yes, it's next on my list in fact. (I'm partial to The
>>> Idiot.The
>>> prince is so like myself. (Yuk.)
>>
>> This is one of these little interesting translation thingies. This
>> "prince"
>> is a bad translation. The Russian word is " knyaz' " and although
>> historically it is translated into "prince", something in me always
>> cringes
>> when I read it... Despite the fact that its completely irrelevant for the
>> story... Knyaz Myshkin is a tragic figure, "Prince" Myshkin is a
>> character
>> from vaudeville...
>
> You are commenting on the difference between the original vis-a-vis the
> English translation in general? Sad. There is a caracaturish thing
> happening, but I hope the feeling of the translation isn't that far amiss.

It most probably just seem that way to a Russian speaker. See, there is a
difference how I see English translations and how you see them.
There is a caricaturistic thing there, and it should be. But the spectra of
tragic tones in Russian and in English are soo -oo different. We should to
discuss that in person.


>
>>> Seriously Sasha, your posts are always a delight.
>
>> Catching every possibility to bask in the setting rays of my First
>> Amendment
>> rights.
>
> Setting rays, yes. I intend to spend my own twilight years away, so I can
> watch democracy's dissolution from afar.

Have a capsule of cyanide handy. 'Cause it won't let you just watch. It
never does. And this one will also go with a huge bang. My estimates - no
less that 2-3 megatonn altogether.

>
> I had decided to add a relevating tea comment here, but thought better of
> it.

And I am grateful for that.

Sasha.

>
> Michael
>
>
>
>