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| Tea (rec.drink.tea) Discussion relating to tea, the world's second most consumed beverage (after water), made by infusing or boiling the leaves of the tea plant (C. sinensis or close relatives) in water. |
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Caffeine and Puer
Hi guys,
Having a cup of tea is so soothing and fulfilling for me it is not wonder that I want to drink it all the time. I never thought caffeine bothered me much until having sleeping problems when I took a cup late. My question is how do Puerhs stack up on the caffeine scale on subsequent brewings? It seems as if sub brew should be lower in caff but what do you guys think? I havent tried drinking it later like at night because of the sleep issue. And since puers are very different from one another would the caff level be different too? I received a sample of silver needles that was so robust and more complex and deep than I remember SN being. After a cup and subsequent brewings of those leaves I was up half the night. I didnt feel anxious just not sleepy. Thus I am trying to find the tea that I may sleep on. Thanks for the feedback! Jenn |
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On 28 Sep 2005 14:23:29 -0700, "Jenn" > wrote:
>Hi guys, >Having a cup of tea is so soothing and fulfilling for me it is not >wonder that I want to drink it all the time. I never thought caffeine >bothered me much until having sleeping problems when I took a cup late. > >My question is how do Puerhs stack up on the caffeine scale on >subsequent brewings? It seems as if sub brew should be lower in caff >but what do you guys think? I havent tried drinking it later like at >night because of the sleep issue. And since puers are very different >from one another would the caff level be different too? >I received a sample of silver needles that was so robust and more >complex and deep than I remember SN being. After a cup and subsequent >brewings of those leaves I was up half the night. I didnt feel anxious >just not sleepy. >Thus I am trying to find the tea that I may sleep on. >Thanks for the feedback! >Jenn Puerh has roughly the same amount of caffeine as most other teas. See http://users.argolink.net/purfarms/komchem/teacaff.HTM I don my fire proof suite and step out once again to say that most of the caffeine comes out in the first few steeps. A long rinse, which is traditional, removes much of the caffeine because it is highly water soluble. Now since a good puerh can stand up to many steeps you can start with a tea in the afternoon, throw out the rinse, get a some caffeine early on and then by evening you essentially have a tea that is very low in caffeine. Puerh is unique in that it also is capable of inducing a phenomena called qi. Many will mistake qi for a caffeine buzz but it is really not. It is a type of energy often spoken of in Chinese medicine. Mike Petro http://www.pu-erh.net http://us.gutea.com/ (mirror in China) |
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Jenn, It depends on what pu'er you are asking about. Generally, 2 main categories: Cooked and uncooked pu'ers. Cooked pu'er, 2 broad subcategories: 1. Hydro-thermal fermented and post dry storage. This pu'er contains a small trace of caffeine still. The heat generated during the hydro-thermal fermentation stage would have evaporated large amount of caffeine, leaving a small amount of it in the tea. 2. Hydro-thermal fermented and post wet storage. This pu'er contains almost no trace of caffeine, as the caffeine structure is completely broken down. But this tea needs some getting used to, as most don't like its musty earthy loamy peaty taste. Uncooked pu'er generally contains higher amount of caffeine, again 2 subcategories: 1. Slightly fermented 2. Unfermented, this one has the highest caffeine content. When I drink this, I sleep about 3 hours a night. If you are unsure of the tea, take Mike's advice and rinse out the pu'er. Pu'er, whether cooked or uncooked, usually tastes the best from the 3rd round onwards anyways. :") Danny "Jenn" > wrote in message oups.com... > Hi guys, > Having a cup of tea is so soothing and fulfilling for me it is not > wonder that I want to drink it all the time. I never thought caffeine > bothered me much until having sleeping problems when I took a cup late. > > My question is how do Puerhs stack up on the caffeine scale on > subsequent brewings? It seems as if sub brew should be lower in caff > but what do you guys think? I havent tried drinking it later like at > night because of the sleep issue. And since puers are very different > from one another would the caff level be different too? > I received a sample of silver needles that was so robust and more > complex and deep than I remember SN being. After a cup and subsequent > brewings of those leaves I was up half the night. I didnt feel anxious > just not sleepy. > Thus I am trying to find the tea that I may sleep on. > Thanks for the feedback! > Jenn > |
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samarkand wrote: > If you are unsure of the tea, take Mike's advice and rinse out the pu'er. > Pu'er, whether cooked or uncooked, usually tastes the best from the 3rd > round onwards anyways. I've actually gotten to like the first infusion of the stuff Teavana sells. I used to pour the first two down the sink, but now I drink everything save the initial rinse. stePH -- GoogleGroups licks balls. |
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snip
> Puerh is unique in that it also is capable of inducing a phenomena > called qi. Many will mistake qi for a caffeine buzz but it is really > not. It is a type of energy often spoken of in Chinese medicine. In fact, to my understanding, it *is* a Chinese word *for* "energy." It is used in the Chinese for such words as electricity. Not to demystify it, but from my discussions with Chinese folks, it appears to be a word in need of demystifying. Qi has also been the brunt of sarcastic jokes in some quarters, especially in reference to those empty-your-wallet-and-sell-your-first-born Pu'erhs of great age which might taste like nothing at all, but "you're not paying for the taste; it's all about the qi." (Smile when you say that, boy.) Michael |
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Thanks because that is what I wanted to know. From yalls experiences
(Yoda said experience is the best teacher) But I have spent may half slept nights cause I wanted that cup. (some may say Jonesin') I can drink Puer oh say 4pm and just have that cup till I go to bed. This is a most grand choice.I may do that tonight. That last late cup of Bai Hao made me jittery last night too. (But is was a new order and I HAD to taste it) see how I am??? About Unfermented, Maybe why some white teas are high in stimulation? Or maybe because theyre buds????? Not sure bout the qi tho Is it just with Puers? I get a sense of well being with most tea I drink and I drink alot of oolongs. But some puers, I just MUST keep brewing till I cannot go any further or am floating away with fluid intake.... Thanks all of you I am, going to choose my puer for this pm now. In the meantime I continue to taste these small bags of oolong, Ming Xian(wow) Shan ling Xi (Like a flower cup) Shi Zuo(a mellow cup with depth and ripe flavor). God I am in heaven! Oh one more thing are there oolong type teas made like puers? I heard of an aged oolong in an orange or other citus? I have heard of the puer in pomelo..... Just asking cause you guys may just know about this. To paraphrase a statement Gerry once made My life aint worth a hoot till I have some! Jenn |
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"Jenn" > writes:
> [...] > About Unfermented, Maybe why some white teas are high in stimulation? > Or maybe because theyre buds????? Exactly: buds have more caffeine than mature leaves. > [...] > Oh one more thing are there oolong type teas made like puers? Yes: http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcar...ase=you+zi+cha /Lew --- Lew Perin / http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html |
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WNW wrote this review back in December 2001:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.f...1?dmode=source Which jives with what I know that it is an aged oolong stuffed in Pomelo which absorbs some sweetness. AFAIK aged oolong is just repeated quarterly refiring for about a year to enhance the oxidation. No matter what definition you give to the Pu it is at least fermented. Okay I forked out the bucks for a golden melon based on a certain recommendation. Jim PS: Does anyone know what happened to Neal? Lewis Perin wrote: > > Oh one more thing are there oolong type teas made like puers? > > Yes: > > http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcar...ase=you+zi+cha > > /Lew > --- > Lew Perin / > http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html |
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Space 9/29/05
> WNW wrote this review back in December 2001: > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.f...8b9a91?dmode=s > ource > > Which jives with what I know that it is an aged oolong stuffed in > Pomelo which absorbs some sweetness. AFAIK aged oolong is just > repeated quarterly refiring for about a year to enhance the oxidation. > No matter what definition you give to the Pu it is at least fermented. > > Okay I forked out the bucks for a golden melon based on a certain > recommendation. > > Jim > > PS: Does anyone know what happened to Neal? To me, what you say makes good sense. Just a word on "Oolong," though. It's undoubtedly more (or perhaps less) than quarterly firings. By definition, isn't it a tea that is neither green (completely un-oxidized) or a red (completely oxidized), but rather a tea that is partially oxidized to any degree? Neal is ensconced at his place, working on many projects, and fulfilling his many responsibilities while drink a number of teas. Michael |
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Oolong is by definition some degree of oxidation. I tried to give one
definition of 'aged oolong' which is more than sitting around aging gracefully unlike Pu'er which gets geriatric naturally, supposedly. When I see a moniker like 'aged oolong' the warning flags go up. AFAIK it is tea that doesn't sell and is 'enhanced' by repeated firings which takes on a new note that one markets as 'aged'. It has been described here as a process to wake up old teas that sit on the shelf too long especially oolongs. I see a guy on Ebay buying teas with a similar id that WNW used here. I guess if you are cutting stones and feeding cows teas you don't like there is not much time left in the day. Jim Michael Plant wrote: > Space 9/29/05 > > > AFAIK aged oolong is just > > repeated quarterly refiring for about a year to enhance the oxidation. ....I whack me... > To me, what you say makes good sense. Just a word on "Oolong," though. It's > undoubtedly more (or perhaps less) than quarterly firings. By definition, > isn't it a tea that is neither green (completely un-oxidized) or a red > (completely oxidized), but rather a tea that is partially oxidized to any > degree? |
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I see what you mean about the "aged Oolongs," and I tend to agree in the
short term. Tea goes stale, give it a blast in the furnace, and voila, expensive Oolong, very rare, get it while you can. But, truly aged Oolong -- say over 10 years -- can be different, and quite nice. I had some 50 year old WuYi which tasted sweet and pleasingly woody on top of its oolong qualities. I guess feeding cows all that lousy tea would keep you busy. I suspect cows these days would want nothing but the best. Michael Space 9/30/05 > Oolong is by definition some degree of oxidation. I tried to give one > definition of 'aged oolong' which is more than sitting around aging > gracefully unlike Pu'er which gets geriatric naturally, supposedly. > When I see a moniker like 'aged oolong' the warning flags go up. AFAIK > it is tea that doesn't sell and is 'enhanced' by repeated firings which > takes on a new note that one markets as 'aged'. It has been described > here as a process to wake up old teas that sit on the shelf too long > especially oolongs. I see a guy on Ebay buying teas with a similar id > that WNW used here. I guess if you are cutting stones and feeding cows > teas you don't like there is not much time left in the day. > > Jim > > Michael Plant wrote: >> Space 9/29/05 >> >>> AFAIK aged oolong is just >>> repeated quarterly refiring for about a year to enhance the oxidation. > ...I whack me... >> To me, what you say makes good sense. Just a word on "Oolong," though. It's >> undoubtedly more (or perhaps less) than quarterly firings. By definition, >> isn't it a tea that is neither green (completely un-oxidized) or a red >> (completely oxidized), but rather a tea that is partially oxidized to any >> degree? > |
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I wished my Wuyi Yan tea from the early seventies would age gracefully.
It's been the past few years I've developed a taste for rock tea like Shui Xian and those tins from the seventies,eighties,nineties taste the same as today. My experience with storing tea is slow the deterioration from the elements but the taste doesn't improve with age even loose Poo Nee. I've never had a WuYi as you describe even a YunWu. There was a lot of the best Neal didn't like which he feed to his cows. At least he could fork out the money and admit he didn't like it. Jim Michael Plant wrote: > I see what you mean about the "aged Oolongs," and I tend to agree in the > short term. Tea goes stale, give it a blast in the furnace, and voila, > expensive Oolong, very rare, get it while you can. But, truly aged Oolong -- > say over 10 years -- can be different, and quite nice. I had some 50 year > old WuYi which tasted sweet and pleasingly woody on top of its oolong > qualities. > > I guess feeding cows all that lousy tea would keep you busy. I suspect cows > these days would want nothing but the best. > > Michael > > > > Space 9/30/05 > > > > Oolong is by definition some degree of oxidation. I tried to give one > > definition of 'aged oolong' which is more than sitting around aging > > gracefully unlike Pu'er which gets geriatric naturally, supposedly. |
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[Jim]
> I wished my Wuyi Yan tea from the early seventies would age gracefully. > It's been the past few years I've developed a taste for rock tea like > Shui Xian and those tins from the seventies,eighties,nineties taste the > same as today. My experience with storing tea is slow the > deterioration from the elements but the taste doesn't improve with age > even loose Poo Nee. I've never had a WuYi as you describe even a > YunWu. There was a lot of the best Neal didn't like which he feed to > his cows. At least he could fork out the money and admit he didn't > like it. [Michael] The aged Oolongs are, as you mentioned earlier, refired regularly along the way. The 50 year old was a unique tea. I've never tasted anythng like it before or since. |
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Michael Plant > writes:
> Lewis 9/29/05 > > > "Jenn" > writes: > > > >> [...] > >> About Unfermented, Maybe why some white teas are high in stimulation? > >> Or maybe because theyre buds????? > > > > Exactly: buds have more caffeine than mature leaves. > > > >> [...] > >> Oh one more thing are there oolong type teas made like puers? > > > > Yes: > > > > http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcar...ase=you+zi+cha > > Let's take this a bit further. A Pu'erh can be "raw" (green) or "cooked" > (oxidized/fermented) when it enters the aging process in its cake (bing), > brick (feng), That's "fang", by the way. > or bird nest (tuo) form. Surely there are variations in the degree > of cookedness in the leaf on the way to storage, and thus anything > in the middle would be an "Oolong" by definition, right? "Cookedness"? You mean oxidation before firing, right? If so, yes, but usually "cooked" means the tea hanging around damp and warm for a while to accelerate - simulate? - the microbial action that takes longer with raw pu'er. > Except that once the tea enters true poo production, it's Pu'erh not > Oolong. In the case of the tea stuffed pomelo that babelcarp speaks > of, I take it the actual tea therein is/was Oolong? But, something > deep inside me says that ultimately it tea can be Oolong or tea can > be Pu'erh, but it's got to make up its mind and claim its allegance > at the end. I think your question makes more sense if you generalize it: the use of the fruit skin as container during microbial aging seems, well, superficial. The real question, I think, is: can you make pu'er - or, less restrictively, hei cha - by starting with oolong or even black/red tea, or do those nice germs insist on green tea? /Lew --- Lew Perin / http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html |
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Wow I guess so. It must have been from some private stock. I can't
imagine a commercial company doing this for 50 years and deciding it was time to recoup their labor and storage cost by the whims of the market place. From what I understand repeated firings don't work for old teas that have initially sit too long so my old ShuiXian wouldn't benefit. Didn't someone mention they had good luck with improving the taste of new oolongs they baked or fired. Jim Michael Plant wrote: > [Jim] > > I wished my Wuyi Yan tea from the early seventies would age gracefully. > [Michael] > The aged Oolongs are, as you mentioned earlier, refired regularly along the > way. The 50 year old was a unique tea. I've never tasted anythng like it > before or since. |
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>> Let's take this a bit further. A Pu'erh can be "raw" (green) or "cooked" >> (oxidized/fermented) when it enters the aging process in its cake (bing), >> brick (feng), > > That's "fang", by the way. Thank you, yes it is. GRRRrrrr. > >> or bird nest (tuo) form. Surely there are variations in the degree >> of cookedness in the leaf on the way to storage, and thus anything >> in the middle would be an "Oolong" by definition, right? > > "Cookedness"? You mean oxidation before firing, right? If so, yes, > but usually "cooked" means the tea hanging around damp and warm for a > while to accelerate - simulate? - the microbial action that takes > longer with raw pu'er. God. I thought it was just yet another word opposite "raw." My bad. > >> Except that once the tea enters true poo production, it's Pu'erh not >> Oolong. In the case of the tea stuffed pomelo that babelcarp speaks >> of, I take it the actual tea therein is/was Oolong? But, something >> deep inside me says that ultimately it tea can be Oolong or tea can >> be Pu'erh, but it's got to make up its mind and claim its allegance >> at the end. > > I think your question makes more sense if you generalize it: the use > of the fruit skin as container during microbial aging seems, well, > superficial. The real question, I think, is: can you make pu'er - or, > less restrictively, hei cha - by starting with oolong or even > black/red tea, or do those nice germs insist on green tea? Something is wrong here -- I think. Oxidized leaf goes into the making of shu, and unoxidized leaf into sheng. Isn't that right? If it isn't I withdraw myself form the august body. The damp blanket fakery is something completely different. At least, that what I *thought*. The question for me was, Can you start with a semi-oxidized leaf instead of either fully or un-? Michael |
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snip
[Jim] > From what I understand repeated firings don't work for > old teas that have initially sit too long so my old ShuiXian wouldn't > benefit. Didn't someone mention they had good luck with improving the > taste of new oolongs they baked or fired. [Michael] Jim, give it a try. Just fire away in a wok or whatever. See what happens. Report back. |
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I'll let others refire their teas and report back about how great they
taste. One of these days when I get bored ... Hum wonder if it would do any good for the taste of wet storage Pu without waiting thirty years? Jim Michael Plant wrote: > snip > > [Jim] > > From what I understand repeated firings don't work for > > old teas that have initially sit too long so my old ShuiXian wouldn't > > benefit. Didn't someone mention they had good luck with improving the > > taste of new oolongs they baked or fired. > > [Michael] > Jim, give it a try. Just fire away in a wok or whatever. See what happens. > Report back. |
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>"Cookedness"? You mean oxidation before firing, right? If so, yes, >but usually "cooked" means the tea hanging around damp and warm for a >while to accelerate - simulate? - the microbial action that takes >longer with raw pu'er. The process of "cooking" puerh is called Wo Dui and involves taking mao-cha and wetting it down and "piling" it up. The process is very similar to composting, much like a compost pile "cooks" so do the puerh leaves. This post fermentation (aka microbial oxidation) process is very carefully controlled and the results are a more mellow and significantly darker tea. While it does remove the harshness of the young mao-cha, the end results do not compare to a well aged green. There is a tremendous amount of microbial action during this pseudo composting phase, so much so that a good airing out and a few years of aging is required to remove the microbial flavors. See http://tinyurl.com/dq53v for more info. >> Except that once the tea enters true poo production, it's Pu'erh not >> Oolong. In the case of the tea stuffed pomelo that babelcarp speaks >> of, I take it the actual tea therein is/was Oolong? But, something >> deep inside me says that ultimately it tea can be Oolong or tea can >> be Pu'erh, but it's got to make up its mind and claim its allegance >> at the end. I have seen both teas stuffed into a pomelo skin, however the majority seem to be oolongs. In Western stores these teas are often sold with puerhs because the vendors don't know where else to put them. Western vendors often mistakenly consider anything compressed to be in the puerh category. The taste between pomelo oolong and pomelo puerh is quite different though. >I think your question makes more sense if you generalize it: the use >of the fruit skin as container during microbial aging seems, well, >superficial. The real question, I think, is: can you make pu'er - or, >less restrictively, hei cha - by starting with oolong or even >black/red tea, or do those nice germs insist on green tea? I am not familiar with the making of Oolong, but I do know that Oolong is NOT puerh, the raw materials are very different. Puerh is made from the leaf of the Yunnan Big Leaf Tea Trees (Yunnan Da Ye). The production of authentic oolong teas is restricted to a few geographic regions of China and Taiwan, NOT Yunnan nor the Yunnan Da Ye species. Mike Petro http://www.pu-erh.net http://us.gutea.com/ (mirror in China) |
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>Something is wrong here -- I think. Oxidized leaf goes into the making of >shu, and unoxidized leaf into sheng. Isn't that right? Yes, you are correct, though I prefer the term "fermentation" to oxidation. >The question for me was, Can you start with a semi-oxidized leaf instead of >either fully or un-? Hmmm, interesting concept, in other words can you take old dead tea and compost it into puerh. I have never heard of such a thing. My suspicion is that it would deteriorate rather than ferment if you attempted this. Mike Petro http://www.pu-erh.net http://us.gutea.com/ (mirror in China) |
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Mike Petro wrote: > >Something is wrong here -- I think. Oxidized leaf goes into the making of > >shu, and unoxidized leaf into sheng. Isn't that right? > > Yes, you are correct, though I prefer the term "fermentation" to > oxidation. > > >The question for me was, Can you start with a semi-oxidized leaf instead of > >either fully or un-? > > Hmmm, interesting concept, in other words can you take old dead tea > and compost it into puerh. I have never heard of such a thing. My > suspicion is that it would deteriorate rather than ferment if you > attempted this. > > Mike Petro > http://www.pu-erh.net > http://us.gutea.com/ (mirror in China) Forgive me if this was already said, but believe oxidization and fermentation are two different things. Oxidization is what happens to apples or other fruits, as well as tea leaves, when you leave them exposed to oxygen for a while (I don't know what exact chemical process is involved), while fermentation is any process in which microbials process elements in a substence, such as yeast in beer, or I think, puer, although oxidization also takes place in raw puer as it ages. This is largely speculation on my part. Any ideas? Nico |
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Mike Petro > wrote:
> I am not familiar with the making of Oolong, but I do know that Oolong > is NOT puerh, the raw materials are very different. Puerh is made from > the leaf of the Yunnan Big Leaf Tea Trees (Yunnan Da Ye). The > production of authentic oolong teas is restricted to a few geographic > regions of China and Taiwan, NOT Yunnan nor the Yunnan Da Ye species. To confuse things, Pu Erh is a county in Yunnan which gave its name to the tea. Oolong does grow there - I've had one sample - and so it could be called Pu Erh oolong in the same way that one could have a still red Champagne. Even more confusingly, Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pu-erh) says: "Cooked (shu bing) This tea is manipulated to accelerate the ageing process. Also known as Mutual or Oolong." I've never heard of either term. Mike, what do you think? Rick. |
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Rick Chappell wrote: > Mike Petro > wrote: > > > I am not familiar with the making of Oolong, but I do know that Oolong > > is NOT puerh, the raw materials are very different. Puerh is made from > > the leaf of the Yunnan Big Leaf Tea Trees (Yunnan Da Ye). The > > production of authentic oolong teas is restricted to a few geographic > > regions of China and Taiwan, NOT Yunnan nor the Yunnan Da Ye species. > > To confuse things, Pu Erh is a county in Yunnan which gave its name to > the tea. Oolong does grow there - I've had one sample - and so it > could be called Pu Erh oolong in the same way that one could have a > still red Champagne. Yes, and Pu'er is also a town as well. However puerh is not grown there. The town was the main trading center for mao-cha years ago and thats how puerh got it's name. I had no idea there was an oolong from there. Is it made from a large leaf variety? I know little about oolongs other than some of them are quite good. > Even more confusingly, Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pu-erh) > says: > "Cooked (shu bing) This tea is manipulated to accelerate the ageing > process. Also known as Mutual or Oolong." I've never heard of either > term. Mike, what do you think? Hmm, now that "known as Mutual or Oolong" thing is something I have never heard of before. The downside of Wikipedia is that anybody can edit the Wikipedia, even if they arent sure of their facts. On the other hand they could be right??? Does whoever made that statement frequent this group? If so can you please elaborate? Mike http://www.pu-erh.net |
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"Mike Petro" > writes:
> Rick Chappell wrote: > > [...] > > Even more confusingly, Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pu-erh) > > says: > > "Cooked (shu bing) This tea is manipulated to accelerate the ageing > > process. Also known as Mutual or Oolong." I've never heard of either > > term. Mike, what do you think? > > Hmm, now that "known as Mutual or Oolong" thing is something I have > never heard of before. The downside of Wikipedia is that anybody can > edit the Wikipedia, even if they arent sure of their facts. On the > other hand they could be right??? Does whoever made that statement > frequent this group? If so can you please elaborate? I'm innocent of that Wikipedia entry, but I just looked at it, and the section with the "Mutual or Oolong" reference has a couple of other odd ideas: - implying that pu'er is always bingcha; - calling green pu'er qing rather than sheng. /Lew --- Lew Perin / http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html |
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> > "Cooked (shu bing) This tea is manipulated to accelerate the ageing
> > process. Also known as Mutual or Oolong." I've never heard of either > > term. Might be a misprint for a midwestern insurance company. (Sorry - too much Drum Mountain Clouds & Mist, and now I'm free-associating.) |
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Caffeine and Puer (and oolong and such)
Space Cowboy wrote: > Didn't someone mention they had good luck with improving the > taste of new oolongs they baked or fired. I've been getting some $2.49/250g Ceylon green tea sold under the name "Alghazaleen" from a Lebanese-owned market. As is, this stuff is drab. But stir-roast it in a dry skillet over med-low heat on top of the stove for about 5 minutes, and it becomes something worth drinking -- not delicate by any means, but the deep toasty greeniness is really good after eating strong-flavored foods. --crymad |
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Caffeine and Puer (and oolong and such)
crymad > writes:
> Space Cowboy wrote: > > Didn't someone mention they had good luck with improving the taste > > of new oolongs they baked or fired. > > I've been getting some $2.49/250g Ceylon green tea sold under the > name "Alghazaleen" from a Lebanese-owned market. As is, this > stuff is drab. But stir-roast it in a dry skillet over med-low > heat on top of the stove for about 5 minutes, and it becomes > something worth drinking -- not delicate by any means, but the > deep toasty greeniness is really good after eating strong-flavored > foods. Do you think the improvement is from freshening the tea - teas like this are often badly packed - or did you turn it into Ceylon houjicha? /Lew --- Lew Perin / http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html |
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Caffeine and Puer (and oolong and such)
crymad wrote: > > > Space Cowboy wrote: > >> Didn't someone mention they had good luck with improving the taste of >> new oolongs they baked or fired. > > > I've been getting some $2.49/250g Ceylon green tea sold under the > name "Alghazaleen" from a Lebanese-owned market. As is, this > stuff is drab. But stir-roast it in a dry skillet over med-low > heat on top of the stove for about 5 minutes, and it becomes > something worth drinking -- not delicate by any means, but the > deep toasty greeniness is really good after eating strong-flavored > foods. Should probably add, brewed at about 180 for 60 seconds or so. --crymad |
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Caffeine and Puer (and oolong and such)
Lewis Perin wrote: > crymad > writes: > >> I've been getting some $2.49/250g Ceylon green tea sold under >> the name "Alghazaleen" from a Lebanese-owned market. As is, >> this stuff is drab. But stir-roast it in a dry skillet over >> med-low heat on top of the stove for about 5 minutes, and it >> becomes something worth drinking -- not delicate by any >> means, but the deep toasty greeniness is really good after >> eating strong-flavored foods. > > > Do you think the improvement is from freshening the tea - teas > like this are often badly packed - or did you turn it into > Ceylon houjicha? Maybe a little of both, but the pan-roasting is very light, with no color change in the tea at all. Regarding the packaging, it comes in a sealed mylar-type bag inside a box. I believe it might be the Akbar Green Tea sold under a different brand. You can find pics online of the Akbar product line easily. --crymad |
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Caffeine and Puer (and oolong and such)
The Alghazaleen label from Akbar Brothers is for middle east
distribution. The Akbar label is for other international distribution. They are located in Sri Lanka www.akbar.com. I go head hunting for the 500g tin canisters with latched tops and raised brand lettering. One of the classier commercial tins especially the Akbar Red Garnet with raised Russian Akbar brand. I can tell you the tin prices aren't much more than penny/gram. I don't know what you mean by drab but I've never tasted any Ceylon green I liked commercial or estate. It is bitter without being astringent. I'd bet it is some last salvage harvest. I'll pan fry some Hedley's and Alghazalean(another sp) in the morning and report back next week. If this works then I'll never have to buy green tea again. You can usually find something of the following in middle east stores: http://www.cihan.com/food.htm Jim crymad wrote: > Space Cowboy wrote: > > Didn't someone mention they had good luck with improving the > > taste of new oolongs they baked or fired. > > I've been getting some $2.49/250g Ceylon green tea sold under the > name "Alghazaleen" from a Lebanese-owned market. As is, this > stuff is drab. But stir-roast it in a dry skillet over med-low > heat on top of the stove for about 5 minutes, and it becomes > something worth drinking -- not delicate by any means, but the > deep toasty greeniness is really good after eating strong-flavored > foods. > > --crymad |
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Caffeine and Puer (and oolong and such)
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Oolong and Such (and the Hojicha scammaroo)
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Caffeine and Puer (and oolong and such)
Oops forgot I'll be in and out of town for most of this week. The
experiment will have to wait. I found some unopened Alghazalean and Alwazah Ceylon green tea from the last century over the weekend. I also came across an open generic Arabic labeled bag of green tea from the same time period. Surprising it still had moderate bitter taste with warmth from throat to stomach without singeing the hairs on the neck. I was surprised because I took no special care in storing this one. Jim Space Cowboy wrote: ....I delete me... > I don't know what you mean by drab but I've > never tasted any Ceylon green I liked commercial or estate. It is > bitter without being astringent. I'd bet it is some last salvage > harvest. I'll pan fry some Hedley's and Alghazalean(another sp) in the > morning and report back next week. > Jim > > crymad wrote: > > Space Cowboy wrote: > > > Didn't someone mention they had good luck with improving the > > > taste of new oolongs they baked or fired. > > > > I've been getting some $2.49/250g Ceylon green tea sold under the > > name "Alghazaleen" from a Lebanese-owned market. As is, this > > stuff is drab. But stir-roast it in a dry skillet over med-low > > heat on top of the stove for about 5 minutes, and it becomes > > something worth drinking -- not delicate by any means, but the > > deep toasty greeniness is really good after eating strong-flavored > > foods. > > > > --crymad |
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Oolong and Such (and the Hojicha scammaroo)
"Michael Plant" > wrote in message ... > Lewis 10/14/05 snip > Houjicha is stem only, no? Thus he can't turn leaf into houjicha no > matter > how roasty he tries. Here's a thought: Once upon a time, buttermilk and > skim milk were dirt cheap because they were thought of as the by-products > of > cream and butter &c. Nowadays, at least in NYC, you pay full scalper's > rates > for the buttermilk, skim milk, milk, cream, and butter. Now, please tell > me > where I'm going with this. That's right! The houjicha scammaroo. > > Michael > I *think* you are thinking of kukicha, which I believe is mostly stems or stalks. Hojicha I believe is mostly leaf, with maybe a little stalk. http://sencha.com/houjicha.html http://sencha.com/kukicha.html |
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Oolong and Such (and the Hojicha scammaroo)
Doug Hazen, /17/05
> > "Michael Plant" > wrote in message > ... >> Lewis 10/14/05 > snip >> Houjicha is stem only, no? Thus he can't turn leaf into houjicha no >> matter >> how roasty he tries. Here's a thought: Once upon a time, buttermilk and >> skim milk were dirt cheap because they were thought of as the by-products >> of >> cream and butter &c. Nowadays, at least in NYC, you pay full scalper's >> rates >> for the buttermilk, skim milk, milk, cream, and butter. Now, please tell >> me >> where I'm going with this. That's right! The houjicha scammaroo. >> >> Michael >> > > I *think* you are thinking of kukicha, which I believe is mostly stems or > stalks. Hojicha I believe is mostly leaf, with maybe a little stalk. Yes, I was wrong. You are right. That's that. My mistake. Michael |
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Oolong and Such (and the Hojicha scammaroo)
On 2005-10-18, Michael Plant > wrote:
> Yes, I was wrong. You are right. That's that. My mistake. Well some of them (like Ito En's) are extremely stemmy... http://www.itoen.com/leaf/index.cfm?sp=product&ID=20 In fact, this one appears to be entirely stems: http://www.itoen.com/leaf/index.cfm?sp=product&ID=21 N. |
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Oolong and Such (and the Hojicha scammaroo)
Natarajan 10/18/05
> On 2005-10-18, Michael Plant > wrote: >> Yes, I was wrong. You are right. That's that. My mistake. > > Well some of them (like Ito En's) are extremely stemmy... > http://www.itoen.com/leaf/index.cfm?sp=product&ID=20 > > In fact, this one appears to be entirely stems: > http://www.itoen.com/leaf/index.cfm?sp=product&ID=21 Only God can redeem me, but Natarajan Krishnaswami has vindicated me. Quite good enough for the moment, and for all I know tantamount to the same thing.. Thanks, N. Michael |
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Oolong and Such (and the Hojicha scammaroo)
On 2005-10-19, Michael Plant > wrote:
> Only God can redeem me, but Natarajan Krishnaswami has vindicated me. > Quite good enough for the moment, and for all I know tantamount to the same > thing.. Thanks, N. I call it "grace"! Or maybe just pedantry. Who can tell these days? N., drinking kukicha |
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