Tea (rec.drink.tea) Discussion relating to tea, the world's second most consumed beverage (after water), made by infusing or boiling the leaves of the tea plant (C. sinensis or close relatives) in water.

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  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Melinda
 
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Default Tea masters

In my tea journey thus far I have heard time and again from various and
sundry places that this person or that person is a tea master, or in at
least one case a "tea sommeliere" (sp?). Now I think I know that there are
Japanese schools with actual programs of study that teach one how to do the
Japanese tea ceremony (and I think there's more than one, is that right?)
but when it comes to other terms I wonder if there's any kind of
standardization. I suppose it depends on the accrediting institution in the
Western model but I'm not sure what it would depend on in the Chinese model.
Does anyone have any knowledge in this area (i.e. who the main "Chinese tea
masters" are, where they are actually located, whom they have taught outside
China, etc.) If there is no lineage at the very least then I fear that
anyone practically can call themselves a tea master once they know the
basics of gung fu and then they use that as a marketing tool. When I hear
someone claim to be a master and they're selling tea...I am cautious, which
is OK, but I am curious what others think beyond that.

Melinda

--
"I know. You know I know. I know you know I know. We know Henry knows,
and Henry knows we know it."

We're a knowledgeable family." ::smiles:: -Geoffrey, Lion in Winter


  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Archer
 
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Marketing will never cease to overwhelm actual credentials. How many
health professionals have we heard calling themselves doctors only to
discover that they're referring to their doctoral work?

In Japan, walk into a neighborhood bar and practically everyone is
calling each other "sensei" after a few drinks.

The People's Republic of China certifies individuals as Tea Masters. I
believe there are over ten individuals with this verifiable credential
now. However, this certification is rewarded at ages under 80 years.
Some would understandably argue that age is a serious criteria for
being recognized as a tea master considering the immense breadth of
true tea alone (3000 varieties from one species of plant).

Historically, tea culture after Occidental contact has been a dance of
misinformation and monopolization. I think that if someone is claiming
to have connections with a tea master or claims to be a tea master,
then it is safe to assume that they are at least trying to qualify the
level of serious interest the person in question has for cha.

There are at least a few schools of Chanoyu (Japanese tea ceremony)
practice. Recall that a master of chanoyu may be more cognizant of
aesthetics, protocol, wabi-sabi, etc. than of tea.

Being a tea sommelier simply means you can make a damn good cuppa tea
in a restaurant or hotel setting. Many tea sommeliers are responsible
for ordering and training at their place of employ. However as all of
us know, there are many ways to acquire great whole leaf tea via the
internet. Not necessarily brain surgery.

At least in my neck of the woods (or desert, as it were - Tucson,
Arizona), I know that ZhuPing of Seven Cups Fine Chinese Teas
<http://www.sevencups.com/>, is an actual Chinese-government-certified
Tea Master. She herself - middle-aged - admits that she has tremendous
amounts still to learn.

  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Falky foo
 
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I hereby proclaim myself Tea Master(R).


"Melinda" > wrote in message
...
> In my tea journey thus far I have heard time and again from various and
> sundry places that this person or that person is a tea master, or in at
> least one case a "tea sommeliere" (sp?). Now I think I know that there are
> Japanese schools with actual programs of study that teach one how to do

the


  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Melinda
 
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"Archer" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Marketing will never cease to overwhelm actual credentials. How many
> health professionals have we heard calling themselves doctors only to
> discover that they're referring to their doctoral work?
>


Very true, very true.


> In Japan, walk into a neighborhood bar and practically everyone is
> calling each other "sensei" after a few drinks.


LOL!!


>
> The People's Republic of China certifies individuals as Tea Masters. I
> believe there are over ten individuals with this verifiable credential
> now. However, this certification is rewarded at ages under 80 years.
> Some would understandably argue that age is a serious criteria for
> being recognized as a tea master considering the immense breadth of
> true tea alone (3000 varieties from one species of plant).
>


Are you saying here that a true tea master should be over 80 years old? And
how long would a person have to actually study...after all, someone who's 80
but has been learning about tea since they were a child would possibly be
more knowledgeable than someone who's 80 who's been studying since they were
60.


> Historically, tea culture after Occidental contact has been a dance of
> misinformation and monopolization. I think that if someone is claiming
> to have connections with a tea master or claims to be a tea master,
> then it is safe to assume that they are at least trying to qualify the
> level of serious interest the person in question has for cha.
>


Mmm...maybe. Or they are trying to portray themselves in a light that will
draw customers.

> There are at least a few schools of Chanoyu (Japanese tea ceremony)
> practice. Recall that a master of chanoyu may be more cognizant of
> aesthetics, protocol, wabi-sabi, etc. than of tea.


Again, true, which is one reason why I have had not so much interest in
Chanoyu. I am personally at this time mroe interested in tea than in the
things surrounding tea...ettiquette, tableware, etc.

>
> Being a tea sommelier simply means you can make a damn good cuppa tea
> in a restaurant or hotel setting. Many tea sommeliers are responsible
> for ordering and training at their place of employ. However as all of
> us know, there are many ways to acquire great whole leaf tea via the
> internet. Not necessarily brain surgery.


::nod:: So it's a hospitality term then.

>
> At least in my neck of the woods (or desert, as it were - Tucson,
> Arizona), I know that ZhuPing of Seven Cups Fine Chinese Teas
> <http://www.sevencups.com/>, is an actual Chinese-government-certified
> Tea Master. She herself - middle-aged - admits that she has tremendous
> amounts still to learn.
>


Yes, I don't think anyone could ever claim truthfully to know everything
about tea. Thank you for your input here.

Melinda


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Melinda
 
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Lol!! You are the pu master Falky...after Mike Petro and about 15 other
people

Melinda

--
"I know. You know I know. I know you know I know. We know Henry knows,
and Henry knows we know it."

We're a knowledgeable family." ::smiles:: -Geoffrey, Lion in Winter



"Falky foo" > wrote in message
news
>I hereby proclaim myself Tea Master(R).
>
>
> "Melinda" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In my tea journey thus far I have heard time and again from various and
>> sundry places that this person or that person is a tea master, or in at
>> least one case a "tea sommeliere" (sp?). Now I think I know that there
>> are
>> Japanese schools with actual programs of study that teach one how to do

> the
>
>





  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mike Petro
 
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Melinda wrote:
> Lol!! You are the pu master Falky...after Mike Petro and about 15 other
> people
>
> Melinda



For the record, although I do realize this was all in jest, I do not
consider myself a Master of anything. I am but an Aprentice when it
comes to Pu-erh, and even less than that when it comes to tea in
general. Every time I *think* I am starting to understnad something
another layer of the onion is revealed, and another, and another.....

The Chinese are a very complex and facinating people, their culture and
tradiitons must be understood to a large degree if you really want to
learn about pu-erh, or Chinese tea in general.

Mike
http://www.pu-erh.net`

  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mydnight
 
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I've often seen various certificates put up around teashops, but I have
yet to ask exactly what they are. I know one of them is a license to
open a shop, but the others usually look like some sort of accrediation
or a reward for something. Then again, it's easy to get such things
off of ebay these days. heh

My question would be who exactly can give the title of "Tea Master"
anyway?

  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Austin Hodge
 
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Since my wife is mentioned here I think maybe try to stir the mud a
little bit and see if I can make it a little more confusing. I was
recently in a factory in Yunnan and because I'm American I was shown a
certification from a group called something like the Association Of
American Tea Masters. It was a bit faded and looked hand done. It was
an appropriate award since it was awarded to the factory that developed
the wonderful sweet Yunnan Black tea in the 1930's. Surely they were
masters. On closer inspection I found the faded signature of Roy Fong,
the owner of Imperial Tea Court in San Francisco's Chinatown, from
1995. Even if he is a self proclaimed master, and I'm not sure where
his title comes from, but surely he is a master because he a been a
great teacher of tea and tea culture in San Francisco, and even if he
is in business, there is no doubt that he is a respected teacher. In
it's simplest since a master is someone that has gained enough
knowledge to teach a subject, and there are students that learn
something, right or wrong from them. I Guangdong province, my wife as
her certificate so that she can teach tea and tea culture primarily to
tea house workers, and can ask pay for doing so based on the
certification. She didn't attend a formal school, though there are
some around China and Taiwan, with more being opened all the time, that
do provide a good education, mostly in tea culture, but rather she took
and passed a test. There are two university's that I know of that offer
PhD in tea science. There are a lot of graduates that safely be called
masters, and there are those in the tea community that have gained the
respect of their peers that are called masters, some of these are very
old, smoke cigarettes and can beat me up the stairs. The person that
said that no knows everything about tea is certainly correct. The
Chinese say you can study tea all of your life and not learn the names
of the teas. Usually people like me that sell tea are called merchants
not masters, but I don't think it matters tea much. The tea does all of
the talking and if you like what your drinking it's good tea and if you
don't it's not, at least for you. I loved the irony of finding Roy
Fong's award and love him for giving it and caring so much about the
tea, even if he is a merchant.

  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Melinda
 
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Yes of course it was meant as teasing Mike...no offense was meant. And I
know that you know that...well, see my sig, lol...

Melinda

--
"I know. You know I know. I know you know I know. We know Henry knows,
and Henry knows we know it."

We're a knowledgeable family." ::smiles:: -Geoffrey, Lion in Winter


"Mike Petro" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
>
> Melinda wrote:
>> Lol!! You are the pu master Falky...after Mike Petro and about 15 other
>> people
>>
>> Melinda

>
>
> For the record, although I do realize this was all in jest, I do not
> consider myself a Master of anything. I am but an Aprentice when it
> comes to Pu-erh, and even less than that when it comes to tea in
> general. Every time I *think* I am starting to understnad something
> another layer of the onion is revealed, and another, and another.....
>
> The Chinese are a very complex and facinating people, their culture and
> tradiitons must be understood to a large degree if you really want to
> learn about pu-erh, or Chinese tea in general.
>
> Mike
> http://www.pu-erh.net`
>





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Space Cowboy
 
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Bruce Lee is often paraphrased "the only thing a black belt is good for
is strangling someone". You want a professional working on your car,
electrical, plumbing but you don't need a master for your teapot.
Teacher/student is an oriental concept. It even applies to the
academic circles. I recently saw a CCTV segment about a modern
historian on Chinese astronomy who is popular in the media was the only
student his teacher accepted in the past thirty years.

Jim

Michael Plant wrote:
> Austin 5/30/05
>
>
>
> [snipped some interesting detail to get to the meat...]
>
> >. The tea does all of
> > the talking and if you like what your drinking it's good tea and if you
> > don't it's not, at least for you.

>
> [more snippage]
>
>
> Austin, I think in these words you are most in synch with my own thoughts,
> and you hit on the great truths (he says, patting himself on the back as
> well). Like Melinda and others, I'm somewhat sceptical of "teasmasters," not
> to mention the concept. I happily seek out and drink tea with those whose
> experience is vaster than mine, and I reserve my more worshipful poses for
> the tea itself.
>
> Michael


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Scott Dorsey
 
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Mydnight > wrote:
>I've often seen various certificates put up around teashops, but I have
>yet to ask exactly what they are. I know one of them is a license to
>open a shop, but the others usually look like some sort of accrediation
>or a reward for something. Then again, it's easy to get such things
>off of ebay these days. heh
>
>My question would be who exactly can give the title of "Tea Master"
>anyway?


I can. I have a Gestetner press and I can make certificates that look just
as good as anyone's. Just send me all your money. If you act now, you also
get this "yixing" glazed teapot made in Mexico, and that's not all! You also
get this wonderful gold-and-red wall hanging that says "So stupid that I
don't know what this means" in Chinese. So act now! Operators are standing
by!
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mydnight
 
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Can you get me certificates from The University of Phoenix Online too?
Yes!!!

  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mydnight
 
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My favorite quote from him was, "you use a belt to keep your pants up."
I often would quote that to my Taekwondo students.

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Marlene Wood
 
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To be honest, that last item sounds kind of fun...I know some people I'd
like to give that to!
"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...
> Mydnight > wrote:
>>I've often seen various certificates put up around teashops, but I have
>>yet to ask exactly what they are. I know one of them is a license to
>>open a shop, but the others usually look like some sort of accrediation
>>or a reward for something. Then again, it's easy to get such things
>>off of ebay these days. heh
>>
>>My question would be who exactly can give the title of "Tea Master"
>>anyway?

>
> I can. I have a Gestetner press and I can make certificates that look
> just
> as good as anyone's. Just send me all your money. If you act now, you
> also
> get this "yixing" glazed teapot made in Mexico, and that's not all! You
> also
> get this wonderful gold-and-red wall hanging that says "So stupid that I
> don't know what this means" in Chinese. So act now! Operators are
> standing
> by!
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."





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Rufus T. Firefly
 
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In Japan there are a number of places where you can study with lots of
middle-aged women about Western tea, Chinese tea, or Japanese tea. The
most widely known is probably Le Picier (which oddly enough means
"grocer" - the Japanese owner wanted to open a European imported food
shop but got stuck with tea, luckily for Japan) with their school at
the head office in Sendagaya, I think. They have some decent sounding
programs, but will not pronounce you a somellier upon completion. They
might let you work there, though. The closest thing to what should be a
somellier that I have found knew less about tea than little old me,
which is excessively sad. He was the head of the Lipton owned tea room
in the Prince Hotel next to Tokyo Tower. Nice guy, though.

Rufus Firefly
USA (since April)

  #17 (permalink)   Report Post  
kuri
 
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"Melinda" > wrote in message

> In my tea journey thus far I have heard time and again from various and
> sundry places that this person or that person is a tea master, or in at
> least one case a "tea sommeliere" (sp?). Now I think I know that there are
> Japanese schools with actual programs of study that teach one how to do

the
> Japanese tea ceremony (and I think there's more than one, is that right?)


A *sommelier* , sommeliere for a woman, is by the original definition a
person that studied efficiently (during 5 years mini) the process of
wine-making, blending, cupping, visited producing areas, got the
knowledge/experience to be able to select producers, select among that
different sorts and levels of quality, storing (changing bottles, etc),
checking the aging, giving advice on serving and matching with food, writing
comments to advise the drinker and ....accessorily do the serving and
comment themselves in the restaurant. A large part of their job is in the
cellar or outside at shopping/cupping and visiting vineyards, many work more
at advising businesses than doing the waiter-sommelier. The Japanese are
very good at it, 20 years ago, they had zero sommelier, now they have the
highest population of assistant-sommelier and several world champions.

All that to say, there are people doing a comparable job for tea : get the
teas from producers, do the storing, check freshness, make blends, and
advise about how to drink a given tea. Their is no standard name for the job
as far as I know , so in Japan they sometimes say sommelier. They get
trainings and certifications from tea trade associations or professional
schools related to agriculture, business or food-drink industry.
Those that read Japanese should check : "boku ha nihoncha no sommelier"
(="I'am a Japanese tea sommelier") by Masamitsu Takau (ISBN 4-480-87744-4).
I've learnt a lot at reading it. This man is in the tea business and gives
lecture about the different Japanese teas (history, production areas and
techniques
, grades, how to serve them).
There are competitions for tea professionnals, so those that get many prizes
tend to be considered as masters.

The "tea ceremony masters" belong to *schools* that are organised like
churches (yes, there are several ones) with the masters at the top choosing
their successors on social/cultural/leadership/relations/wealth
criteria. They don't have fixed programs nor formal examinations...and
about tea, they restrict their knowledge about serving macha traditionnally.
Korea tea ceremony is similarly organised.

Kuri


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