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A bush in my pot
I just got around to trying a commercial brand of Green Jade Oolong
from Good Young Co located in Taiwan available in various local Asian markets. I also have in their Traditional Taiwan Premium Tea series A-Li-Shan and Dong Ding which I haven't tried. This came in a nice big box with cord handle. Inside was a tea tin with a seal and inside that a gold color vacuum sealed foil sealed bag. The price $15/250g/8oz while my local tea shoppe sells a Pouchong version $10/60g/2oz. The infusion color of both is a noticeable yellow. The shoppe version has a better taste. The shelf version has a better aroma. The first thing you notice about this tea is the clunking sound the big knots from traditional hand rolling make hitting the bottom of the glass pot. The biggest surprise of all the infusion reveals consistent stems of tea with large whole leaves of two and three each. It was enough for a botany lecture. I remember one other post with leaves on stems. My biggest surprise of the year so far and certainly in a long time. I can't imagine a bush lasting very long harvested like this. Jim PS: Their A-Li-Shan also has leaves on stems. I haven't opened their Dong Ding. My first impression of A-Li-Shan. One of the few teas where strong taste matches strong aroma. You know you have taste buds when you drink this tea. |
Sounds like a tasty tea at a reasonable price, I'll have to keep an eye
out for that. I've had jade oolongs that looked like that, some bigger leaves than others. It's quite interesting to pull out half a shrub from your teapot! Another great thing about those very tightly rolled big leaves is that you can get lots of infusions out of them, greatly reducing the price per FLAVORFUL cup. I love seeing 3/4 of the leaf still tightly rolled after the first infusion, means the next cup will have just as much flavor. |
I infuse till the leaves look like mistletoe. The Green Jade and
A-Li-Shan suspend very nicely. I'm not a big fan of multi infusions but the A-Li-Shan holds up better than the Green Jade. I didn't mention the price of the Good Young Co A-Li-Shan $10/100g. Damn if I didn't notice that my last purchase of Xue Feng TiKuanYin from Chinatown also didn't have some leaves on stems. Not consistent and harder to spot because the leaves infuse on the bottom and you have to swirl the mass back up in the pot to notice. Jim Josh wrote: > Sounds like a tasty tea at a reasonable price, I'll have to keep an eye > out for that. I've had jade oolongs that looked like that, some bigger > leaves than others. It's quite interesting to pull out half a shrub > from your teapot! Another great thing about those very tightly rolled > big leaves is that you can get lots of infusions out of them, greatly > reducing the price per FLAVORFUL cup. I love seeing 3/4 of the leaf > still tightly rolled after the first infusion, means the next cup will > have just as much flavor. |
Their Dong Ding also needs pruning shears. It's as good as any I've
had. All three give magnificent performances in the pot. Jim Space Cowboy wrote: > I just got around to trying a commercial brand of Green Jade Oolong > from Good Young Co located in Taiwan available in various local Asian > markets. ....I delete me.... > The biggest surprise of all the infusion reveals consistent stems of tea > with large whole leaves of two and three each. It was enough for a > botany lecture. I remember one other post with leaves on stems. My > biggest surprise of the year so far and certainly in a long time. I > can't imagine a bush lasting very long harvested like this. > > Jim > > PS: Their A-Li-Shan also has leaves on stems. I haven't opened their > Dong Ding. |
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In article >, Michael Plant wrote:
> I've also had some Oolongs with an inordinate amount of stem . It's curious > that some of these stemmy Oolongs have been more delightful than those more > carefully pruned or plucked. I've been told that sometimes the stems are > left because they have a positive effect on the taste and aroma of the tea. The iron Guan Yin KING from funalliance.com has a lot of stem. Out of curiosity, I plucked off a couple of these stem and nibbled on them. Yum! Who'd've thought wood could be so tasty? This was one of the most delightful (to steal your word) TGYs I've had in a long time (on the greener side), so at the VERY least, the presence of the stem isn't enough to ruin it, and I'd certainly believe it improves the taste/aroma. N. |
On 28 Jan 2005 05:52:13 GMT, Natarajan Krishnaswami >
wrote: >In article >, Michael Plant wrote: >> I've also had some Oolongs with an inordinate amount of stem . It's curious >> that some of these stemmy Oolongs have been more delightful than those more >> carefully pruned or plucked. I've been told that sometimes the stems are >> left because they have a positive effect on the taste and aroma of the tea. > >The iron Guan Yin KING from funalliance.com has a lot of stem. Out of >curiosity, I plucked off a couple of these stem and nibbled on them. >Yum! Who'd've thought wood could be so tasty? This was one of the >most delightful (to steal your word) TGYs I've had in a long time (on >the greener side), so at the VERY least, the presence of the stem >isn't enough to ruin it, and I'd certainly believe it improves the >taste/aroma. Indeed with a more flavorful tea like guan yin wang, but it was also told to me that the more loose stems that exist in a tea, it lowers the overall quality. I remember helping a good friend of mine go through a batch of tie guan yin that had just arrived from Anxi by hand. The job was to find the deepest green pieces of tea, discard the lose stems, and pick off a greater portion of the larger stems. A rewarding experience that took hours. heh. Mydnight -------------------- thus then i turn me from my countries light, to dwell in the solemn shades of an endless night. |
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Time to get out the wood chucker. The stem and leaf pattern in all
three cases is different. The A-Li-Shan looks like leaf on a grape vine, the Green Jade has two leaves which terminate at a node on the stem which has possibly another leaf, and Dong Ding leaf and stem on leaf and stem. I'm wondering how they roll the stem and wither the leaf without breaking it which is what you find in most larger grades. I think it remarkable that there is little or no single or broken leaf. I'm on my 5th pot of Green Jade and finally the taste comes thru to match the aroma. I did let it brew a little longer than normal and added more tea. That infusion is comedy in a pot. The nuggets start on the bottom, slowly rise to the top, and some fall back to the bottom, with all meeting in the middle in a wonderful suspended canopy of leaves and stems. Jim Michael Plant wrote: > Space 1/27/05 > > > > Their Dong Ding also needs pruning shears. It's as good as any I've > > had. All three give magnificent performances in the pot. > > > > Jim > > > > I've also had some Oolongs with an inordinate amount of stem . It's curious > that some of these stemmy Oolongs have been more delightful than those more > carefully pruned or plucked. I've been told that sometimes the stems are > left because they have a positive effect on the taste and aroma of the tea. > I believe it. I haven't bothered to do a comparison tasting yet of stemmed > and non-stemmed versions of the same tea, although it would be pretty simple > to prepare. > > Michael |
"Michael Plant" > wrote in message ... > All well and good, N; but, as you admit, the word "delightful" in reference > to tea was first used by me. So, in the future please get my consent before > using this word. (As for the rest of you, for a small fee, you may use the > word "delightful" in casual conversation.) .... > > Michael > > *See first paragraph. So, how much for using "delightful"? And what about forms of the word, like "delight", or "delighted"? Would I have give you credit every time I used your word? :-) |
I've read that the reason there is stem in these oolongs is because
they often use the entire leaf shoot. The only problem I can think of is that the stems add to the overall weight of the tea. This has got me wondering what 100g of stemmy oolong would weigh if all of the stems were removed. |
StudentA%uKd.98653$Wo.16687@lakeread081/28/05
> > "Michael Plant" > wrote in message > ... >> All well and good, N; but, as you admit, the word "delightful" in > reference >> to tea was first used by me. So, in the future please get my consent > before >> using this word. (As for the rest of you, for a small fee, you may use the >> word "delightful" in casual conversation.) > ... >> >> Michael >> >> *See first paragraph. > > > So, how much for using "delightful"? If you have to ask, you probably can't afford it. > And what about forms of the word, like "delight", or "delighted"? We'll work something out, student. > Would I have give you credit every time I used your word? Of course. But, for the cost of a small planet, I could sell you the rights. Hope this helps. Michael |
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I'm going to say the stem in the three types of Taiwan Tea from Good
Young is no more than 15% by weight. Lots of leaf weight versus stem weight. I'm wondering in this case of leaf on stem is a result of some mechanical harvesting which AFAIK is still only produced by labor. Even if produced by labor I'd say still cheaper than plucking each leaf by hand. I've seen other posts in this thread mentioning stem being a problem in oolong. I've never seen an oolong where I thought broken loose stem was a problem perse. Traditional methods involve plucking and not pruning. I mention these teas as a wonderful example of leaf on stem for your viewing pleasure. I also think an excellent example of price and taste in a commercial tin. Jim Michael Plant wrote: > 1/29/05 > > > > I've read that the reason there is stem in these oolongs is because > > they often use the entire leaf shoot. The only problem I can think of > > is that the stems add to the overall weight of the tea. This has got me > > wondering what 100g of stemmy oolong would weigh if all of the stems > > were removed. > > > > Some vendors do sell the same tea stemmed and de-stemmed. The price of the > later is of course considerably more. > > Michael |
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"Space Cowboy" > wrote in message > Time to get out the wood chucker. The stem and leaf pattern in all > three cases is different. The A-Li-Shan looks like leaf on a grape > vine, the Green Jade has two leaves which terminate at a node on the > stem which has possibly another leaf, and Dong Ding leaf and stem on > leaf and stem. I'm wondering how they roll the stem and wither the > leaf without breaking it They break some, but they select the perfect ones for higher grades, the rest for cheaper grades... > which is what you find in most larger grades. > I think it remarkable that there is little or no single or broken leaf. These were sold to someone else. I prefered the "broken" teas I bought from the wholesalers in Taipei to the unbroken ones I see here. There, they were so fresh and fragrant... Had I been rich, I'd have bought the unbroken fresh ones. And I'd be less happy than I am now (cos' I can still the dream of getting better some day.) Kuri |
I want to say one more thing about the Taiwan Good Young commercial
brand. As I said the package date is 09/20/2003 so just over 4 months on the shelves. I mentioned a gold colored foil vacuum packed. I think it might be nitrogen pack. The foil is actually crinkled around the tea forming a hard lump. When you open the package the tea returns to the normal state. I've only seen one other packaging like this recently from another Chinese commercial vendor. When I first saw it I thought it was a chunk of brick tea. Also my local tea vendor gets his shipments in nitrogen sealed bags quaranteed fresh for three years which is also mentioned on the box. I think the $10/100g is expensive even for Chinatown. So Kuri can you give us some idea in US currency what the good stuff cost in Taiwan? If I lived next to a tea processing plant I'd be happy with the stuff off the floor. If nothing else it would be fresh. Jim kuri wrote: > "Space Cowboy" > wrote in message ....Google never forgets... > > I think it remarkable that there is little or no single or broken leaf. > > These were sold to someone else. > I prefered the "broken" teas I bought from the wholesalers in Taipei to the > unbroken ones I see here. There, they were so fresh and fragrant... Had I > been rich, I'd have bought the unbroken fresh ones. And I'd be less happy > than I am now (cos' I can still the dream of getting better some day.) > > Kuri |
Does anyone know of a bushy TGY on the shelves in Chinatown?
Jim Natarajan Krishnaswami wrote: > The iron Guan Yin KING from funalliance.com has a lot of stem. |
"Space Cowboy" > writes:
> I want to say one more thing about the Taiwan Good Young commercial > brand. As I said the package date is 09/20/2003 so just over 4 months > on the shelves. ....plus one year, by my calculations. > I mentioned a gold colored foil vacuum packed. I think it might be > nitrogen pack. The foil is actually crinkled around the tea forming > a hard lump. Good for them! I don't know if this is universal among high-quality Taiwanese tea manufacturers, but it's pretty common. I couldn't prove this, but I've heard that some teas are packed this way right on the farm. /Lew --- Lew Perin / http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html |
I was looking in ebay last night and some one was offering toasted tea
stems. I did not rember the Ebay number, as I wasn't interested. trying toasted stem may add to our tea smarts |
[Michael Plant]
> My contention was that the stem might not be a problem at all and *might* > add something to the tea. Seems more than reasonable. I'm suspecting that a lot of tea taste and aroma "strength" variations are due less to concentration than to balance. So adding a bit of some notes might relatively suppress or enhance other, more important ones. And as amoebas multiply by dividing, addition can result in subtraction. Adding stems might also result in selective removal of some components by complexation, chemisorption or other mechanisms. Perhaps some adventurer will segregate a twiggy lot, brew both compnents plus the mixture, and report back to us all. -DM |
> [Michael Plant]
>> My contention was that the stem might not be a problem at all and *might* >> add something to the tea. [Dog Ma] > Seems more than reasonable. I'm suspecting that a lot of tea taste and aroma > "strength" variations are due less to concentration than to balance. So > adding a bit of some notes might relatively suppress or enhance other, more > important ones. > > And as amoebas multiply by dividing, addition can result in subtraction. > Adding stems might also result in selective removal of some components by > complexation, chemisorption or other mechanisms. > > Perhaps some adventurer will segregate a twiggy lot, brew both compnents > plus the mixture, and report back to us all. [Michael again] Lew, didn't we once drink a green and herbacious kukicha you had gotten from Ito En or some such place? It was quite good if I recall, and worlds away from the standard roasted stem tea commonly found in grocery stores, as you posted elsewhere. Michael |
It's called Kukicha twig tea. My version you could widdle the ends and
make toothpicks. Absolutely no leaf. Stem is from fine plucking and twig or stalk from coarse plucking. Jim Lewis Perin wrote: > (Tom Koeppl) writes: > > > I was looking in ebay last night and some one was offering toasted tea > > stems. I did not rember the Ebay number, as I wasn't interested. trying > > toasted stem may add to our tea smarts > > You can also buy toasted tea stems cheaply in most grocery stores > catering to Japanese people in the USA, in my experience. > > /Lew > --- > Lew Perin / > http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html |
At least I haven't had to correct any dates on my checks so far this
year. I think this nitrogen packed,filled,vacuum,preservation is popular in the coffee industry. I came across an article the other day that said the Walmart American Choice brand for teabags was from the Charleston, SC plantation. I checked yesterday and all it said was packed in Benton, Arkansas. You'd think it might be more fresh than others. Jim Lewis Perin wrote: > "Space Cowboy" > writes: > > > I want to say one more thing about the Taiwan Good Young commercial > > brand. As I said the package date is 09/20/2003 so just over 4 months > > on the shelves. > > ...plus one year, by my calculations. > > > I mentioned a gold colored foil vacuum packed. I think it might be > > nitrogen pack. The foil is actually crinkled around the tea forming > > a hard lump. > > Good for them! I don't know if this is universal among high-quality > Taiwanese tea manufacturers, but it's pretty common. I couldn't prove > this, but I've heard that some teas are packed this way right on the > farm. > > /Lew > --- > Lew Perin / > http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html |
> [Michael again]
> Lew, didn't we once drink a green and herbacious kukicha you had gotten > from > Ito En or some such place? It was quite good if I recall, and worlds away > from the standard roasted stem tea commonly found in grocery stores, as > you > posted elsewhere. > > Michael > The green kukicha is one of my favorite teas. I usually get it from Den's Teas, but have found it in Japanese grocery stores also. Den's was much better. It's stems and some leaf. A sweet and mellow tea. I tend to lean towards Japanese greens, though I like many Chinese. Blues |
"Space Cowboy" > wrote in message ..>Also my local tea vendor gets his > shipments in nitrogen sealed bags quaranteed fresh for three years There are teas you can keep fresh for maybe one year by freezing them, but you won't keep them 3 years in the state they were when you packed them. > I think the $10/100g is expensive > even for Chinatown. So Kuri can you give us some idea in US currency > what the good stuff cost in Taiwan? Taiwan is not a cheap place. $10/100g does not buy you their premium teas. That's what I paid for third or fourth grades at the wholesaler (that was great for me). They had much cheaper teas, all imported. Tea houses were much more expensive than the wholesalers for all the teas I've compared the prices of. I was told (but did not check myself) that the more expensive teas in the world were in Taiwan, that had aged puers and other aged rarities. In supermarkets, they sold teas for $2 or $3 for 100g, many people drink them daily, that's not bad tea. It's the equivalent of what they export here. As I had to make a choice, I've prefered 50g packs of *not-what-I-get-everyday* to kilos of tea I found "good nothing more". That was what ? 3 years ago, I think. So I don't know how their currency has evolved. Kuri |
Any commercially packed paper product has a minimum shelf life of 1
year with two being the typical. This is the first paper product I've seen with a stated life of three years because of the nitrogen pack. Tea in tins have a minimum shelf life of two years with four typical. Paper has mostly replaced tins because of turnover expected by consumer and cheaper cost. Once the product is opened then the dynamics change. I've got teas easily 5+ years old that have bouquet and flavor. You'll run out of room faster than teas going stale with proper storage. I just got two more commercial teas from Taiwan from a company called Grand Western which is a large food corporation. A decent price at $8/300g for an uninspired Green and TGY. I was intrigued by the Green because that's the first I've seen labeled as such from Taiwan. I was hoping it was a camouflauged pouchong but sadly not the case. The color was a nice green but taste and aroma lackluster. When I run across teas that make me think, are consumers this stupid, when I revisit them later and tweek and twiddle then there might be value with a price. These two are paper products with cellophane packaging and a stated shelf life of two years. Unfortunately I don't know when the clock started ticking. Jim kuri wrote: > "Space Cowboy" > wrote in message > > .>Also my local tea vendor gets his > > shipments in nitrogen sealed bags quaranteed fresh for three years > > There are teas you can keep fresh for maybe one year by freezing them, but > you won't keep them 3 years in the state they were when you packed them. > > > I think the $10/100g is expensive > > even for Chinatown. So Kuri can you give us some idea in US currency > > what the good stuff cost in Taiwan? > > Taiwan is not a cheap place. $10/100g does not buy you their premium teas. > That's what I paid for third or fourth grades at the wholesaler (that was > great for me). They had much cheaper teas, all imported. Tea houses were > much more expensive than the wholesalers for all the teas I've compared the > prices of. I was told (but did not check myself) that the more expensive > teas in the world were in Taiwan, that had aged puers and other aged > rarities. > In supermarkets, they sold teas for $2 or $3 for 100g, many people drink > them daily, that's not bad tea. It's the equivalent of what they export > here. As I had to make a choice, I've prefered 50g packs of > *not-what-I-get-everyday* to kilos of tea I found "good nothing more". > > That was what ? 3 years ago, I think. So I don't know how their currency has > evolved. > > Kuri |
"Space Cowboy" > wrote in message > Any commercially packed paper product has a minimum shelf life of 1 > year with two being the typical. Only very expensive or very grotty shops store products during 1 full year before selling. Even stocking in a warehouse has a cost. Here probably only M. Freres and the old Chinese shops keep such antiquities. There are sweets, cookies, etc, with a "consumer life" of only a few weeks. I don't think any law prevents the maker to shorten the delay to consume a product. And, whatever they write on the package, I don't believe coffee is still fresh more than 2 weeks after being packaged and teas after 1 month to 1 year depending on the type. I know many (most ?) people have never in their life drunk coffee or tea that was not stale, so they like them only stale and look at the date written on the package only because they fear being poisoned if their lipton yellow is too old. I don't think you, or the others posting here, are that sort of person. > Tea in tins have a minimum shelf life of two years with four typical. For commercial brands, it's 6 month warehouse+shelf life, and about 2 years "consumer life". I usually don't buy if there is not 18 months left before "consume before date". > Paper has mostly replaced tins because of turnover expected by consumer > and cheaper cost. In Asia, now foil package is the most common. It protects the tea as well as a tin, it's more flexible (as many sizes are possible) and many people have special tins (or potteries) they refill each time. The teas in paper packages tend to be stuff like houji-cha that you consume in the 2 weeks after buying. Other types of packages (like transparent plastic) unfortunately still exist. > I've got teas easily 5+ years old that have bouquet and flavor. Yes, but compared to the bouquet and flavor they had 5 years ago ? How much is left ? I have kept wulongs I got very fresh during several years (by accident because my place is so messy...) and when I prepared them, several persons said "Oh, your tea is good." and I was angry because it used to be excellent. > You'll run out of room faster than teas going stale with proper > storage. I just got two more commercial teas from Taiwan from a > company called Grand Western which is a large food corporation. A > decent price at $8/300g for an uninspired Green and TGY. I was > intrigued by the Green because that's the first I've seen labeled as > such from Taiwan. They do good Senchas and Chinese style greens. They also produce a macha which is : "not great, I don't use it for tea ceremony, but very good for you if you bake cakes" (according to the lady that sold me some). But I particularly liked 2 of their teas : their "wulong bai hao" (oriental beauty) and their "Dong Ding" very lightly oxidated wulongs. They proposed them to their local consumers and all grades were available. The other teas seemed to me more for exportation, or to offer a variety in fancy stores. Kuri |
In our discount stores I can buy British name brands a bit past expiry
that match in quality the version on the shelves. I don't think stale tea is a commercial problem if proper care in handling. If there is a problem with the expiry date most commercial teas don't have one. Even Lipton Yellow label doesn't use one. Nobody is warehousing tea unless it is puerh in a cave. It's an agricultural commodity based on futures speculation. Commercial companies anticipate demand. The wholesaler pays market premium. I remember auctions in India are once a month. My local tea shoppe turns over his stock every three months with unsold pitched into the discounted potpourri basket. All in all I like the taste of his teas better but freshness isn't a factor. I was at the shoppe recently and tasted organic darjeeling,assam,nilgiri directly from some estates which wasn't thru his wholesale sources. The tea was less than a month old but the darjeeling wasn't any more pungent than opening a tin of Lipton Connoisseur Green label. I don't think anyone here in general consumes all the tea they buy immediately. I'll stack up my unused inventory with anything exposed to the elements or sifted thru my hand in a bazaar. There is no guarantee any local tea from any tea producing country is fresher than what I get an ocean away. I think I might find the Dong Ding and Bai Hao from Grand Western at other stores. I've never seen a commercial version of Bai Hao. It's only been the last year I've seen any commercial Taiwan teas on the shelves. Jim kuri wrote: > "Space Cowboy" > wrote in message > > > Any commercially packed paper product has a minimum shelf life of 1 > > year with two being the typical. > > Only very expensive or very grotty shops store products during 1 full year > before selling. Even stocking in a warehouse has a cost. Here probably only > M. Freres and the old Chinese shops keep such antiquities. > There are sweets, cookies, etc, with a "consumer life" of only a few weeks. > I don't think any law prevents the maker to shorten the delay to consume a > product. And, whatever they write on the package, I don't believe coffee is > still fresh > more than 2 weeks after being packaged and teas after 1 month to 1 year > depending on the type. I know many (most ?) people have never in their life > drunk coffee or tea that was not stale, so they like them only stale and > look at the date written on the package only because they fear being > poisoned if their lipton yellow is too old. I don't think you, or the others > posting here, are that sort of person. > > > Tea in tins have a minimum shelf life of two years with four typical. > > For commercial brands, it's 6 month warehouse+shelf life, and about 2 years > "consumer life". I usually don't buy if there is not 18 months left before > "consume before date". > > > Paper has mostly replaced tins because of turnover expected by consumer > > and cheaper cost. > > In Asia, now foil package is the most common. It protects the tea as well as > a tin, it's more flexible (as many sizes are possible) and many people have > special tins (or potteries) they refill each time. The teas in paper > packages tend to be stuff like houji-cha that you consume in the 2 weeks > after buying. Other types of packages (like transparent plastic) > unfortunately still exist. > > > I've got teas easily 5+ years old that have bouquet and flavor. > > Yes, but compared to the bouquet and flavor they had 5 years ago ? How much > is left ? I have kept wulongs I got very fresh during several years (by > accident because my place is so messy...) and when I prepared them, several > persons said "Oh, your tea is good." and I was angry because it used to be > excellent. > > > You'll run out of room faster than teas going stale with proper > > storage. I just got two more commercial teas from Taiwan from a > > company called Grand Western which is a large food corporation. A > > decent price at $8/300g for an uninspired Green and TGY. I was > > intrigued by the Green because that's the first I've seen labeled as > > such from Taiwan. > > They do good Senchas and Chinese style greens. They also produce a macha > which is : "not great, I don't use it for tea ceremony, but very good for > you if you bake cakes" (according to the lady that sold me some). But I > particularly liked 2 of their teas : their "wulong bai hao" (oriental > beauty) and their "Dong Ding" very lightly oxidated wulongs. They proposed > them to their local consumers and all grades were available. The other teas > seemed to me more for exportation, or to offer a variety in fancy stores. > > Kuri |
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