Tea (rec.drink.tea) Discussion relating to tea, the world's second most consumed beverage (after water), made by infusing or boiling the leaves of the tea plant (C. sinensis or close relatives) in water.

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Old 21-01-2005, 12:05 AM
Tom Koeppl
 
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Default bergamot

earl grey tea has bergamot in it. what is it ? where does it come
from.? why was it used?
does it have other uses? history? a recent post stated that very hot
water ruins the bergamot taste. Is this true.?


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Old 21-01-2005, 01:03 AM
Mike Petro
 
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On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 18:05:39 -0600, (Tom Koeppl)
cast caution to the wind and posted:

earl grey tea has bergamot in it. what is it ? where does it come
from.? why was it used?
does it have other uses? history? a recent post stated that very hot
water ruins the bergamot taste. Is this true.?


Here is a quote from
http://www.foodreference.com/html/fbergamotorange.html

"Oil of bergamot is extracted from the peel of the bergamot orange
(Citrus bergamia or Citrus aurantium bergamia), a small pear shaped
sour orange which is cultivated today mostly in southern Italy."

As for very hot water ruining the taste, I have not experienced that
myself but I will do some experimentation with lower temps. I have
traditionally always use boiling water with what I thought were good
results.

Here are some history links.
http://www.secretkingdom.com/folklore.asp?ID=5
http://www.barrys-tea.com/articles/e...y_history.html
http://www.twinings.com/en_int/histo...on/moretea.asp

This site has information, reviews, and ratings of most of the
commercially available blends. http://www.concentric.net/~Dusted/ Its
a great place to start organizing an Earl Grey Taste Test. I am
partial towards the Eastern Shore brand myself.



Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net
remove the "filter" in my email address to reply
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Old 21-01-2005, 02:27 AM
Bluesea
 
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"Tom Koeppl" wrote in message
...
earl grey tea has bergamot in it. what is it ?


Oil of bergamot

where does it come
from.?


Peel of the bergamot, a citrus fruit.

why was it used?


Because it tastes good and smells wonderful?

does it have other uses? history? a recent post stated that very hot
water ruins the bergamot taste. Is this true.?


I don't see how as I've had various Earl Greys (Bigelow's, Twinings, Upton's
decaf, original, extra, and rooibos) all made with boiling water. I believe
you're referring to Renee's post about how her BB seems to overheat her
morning Earl Grey and kill the bergamot which would have more to do with
retained/sustained heat than it does with simply making a brew using very
hot or even boiling water.

--
~~Bluesea~~
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Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.


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Old 21-01-2005, 02:46 AM
Bluesea
 
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"Mike Petro" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 18:05:39 -0600, (Tom Koeppl)
cast caution to the wind and posted:

earl grey tea has bergamot in it. what is it ? where does it come
from.? why was it used?
does it have other uses? history? a recent post stated that very hot
water ruins the bergamot taste. Is this true.?


Here is a quote from
http://www.foodreference.com/html/fbergamotorange.html

"Oil of bergamot is extracted from the peel of the bergamot orange
(Citrus bergamia or Citrus aurantium bergamia), a small pear shaped
sour orange which is cultivated today mostly in southern Italy."

As for very hot water ruining the taste, I have not experienced that
myself but I will do some experimentation with lower temps. I have
traditionally always use boiling water with what I thought were good
results.

Here are some history links.
http://www.secretkingdom.com/folklore.asp?ID=5
http://www.barrys-tea.com/articles/e...y_history.html
http://www.twinings.com/en_int/histo...on/moretea.asp

This site has information, reviews, and ratings of most of the
commercially available blends. http://www.concentric.net/~Dusted/ Its
a great place to start organizing an Earl Grey Taste Test. I am
partial towards the Eastern Shore brand myself.


Kewl links.

Since I've discovered that I don't cotton to Earl Grey teas with other than
a China black or green tea base, I've eliminated sampling those made w/
Ceylon and Assam 'cause I already know that I'd rather pour them down the
drain.

--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.


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Old 21-01-2005, 10:25 AM
Bluesea
 
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Default


"Mike Petro" wrote in message
...

Here are some history links.
http://www.secretkingdom.com/folklore.asp?ID=5
http://www.barrys-tea.com/articles/e...y_history.html
http://www.twinings.com/en_int/histo...on/moretea.asp


From
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache...%22+tea&hl=en:

"Many legends surround the traditional English tea, Earl Grey. The most
popular story recounts that Charles Earl Grey upon a visit to China was
given the recipe and carried it back to England. One thing most tea books
agree on - is this story is hogwash. Not only have the Chinese never been
Earl Grey drinkers, but also Charles Grey never visited China. The origin of
Earl Grey has many theories however, no matter what its origins; whether
welcome visitor or illegal immigrant, Earl Grey is now a British
institution."

Since I like Earl Grey made with a China black base, I prefer the version in
which it was one of Grey's diplomats who received the tea from the mandarin
because he was seeking to influence trade relations or simply upon the
conclusion of a successful diplomatic mission even though it conflicts with
the Chinese never having been drinkers of Earl Grey since it's not totally
inconceivable. According to
http://www.museums.org.za/bio/plants...ae/citrus.htm:

"Citrus aurantium (Seville, Bergamot or Sour Orange)
Hybrid between Pummelo Citrus grandis and Mandarin Citrus reticulata.
Bergamot is sometimes placed in a separate species Citrus bergamia, but is
otherwise considered to be a variety of Citrus aurantium. Citrus aurantium
orginated in China and seems to have entered the written record there by 300
BC. It is recorded from Japan by about 100 AD. By about 100 BC, Sour Orange
seeds appear to have reached Rome. In China and Japan, Sour Orange is not
usually eaten raw but used for: (1) making marmalade and candied peel; (2)
producing essential oils for use in soaps and perfume; and (3) scenting tea
using the flower buds. Bergamot yields neroli oil from the flowers which is
used in perfumery (e.g. in Eau de Cologne), and Bergamot oil which is the
substance added to Earl Grey tea to give it that distinctive flavour."

And according to
http://www.holistic.com/holistic/lea...?OpenDocument:

"The most famous of all flavored teas is of course Earl Grey, created for
the Prime Minister of England in the 1830s and flavored with the pear-shaped
orange of Canton, China."

So there!

--
~~Bluesea~~ "It's TRUE...I seen it on the Internet!"
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.




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Old 24-01-2005, 12:25 AM
Salmonella
 
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Bergamot is perhaps the most common scent in perfumery, it has been said
that the majority of perfume blends contain at least some oil of bergamot.
The other truism is that when one considers the second most common scent
(sandalwood), the vast majority of perfume blends certainly contain one, the
other, or both. The classic cologne (that gave the name "eau de cologne"
or "kolnisch wasser" to watered-down perfume) is 4711, over 200 years old
and made in Cologne (actually Koln, with an umlaut or dieresis, in German).
4711 has been made at Glockengasse 4711 in Cologne since the 1700s by
Muelhens. It positively reeks of bergamot, and when I was growing up in a
French town in Louisiana in the 1950s, 4711 was much beloved of my various
maiden aunts. I remember thinking of it as a rather old fashioned cologne,
used by women and by men as well (as an after shave lotion. The blend of
bergamot and rosemary was not originated by Muelhens, however; there is
definitely an account of a similar product at the court of Marie de Medicis
under the name aqua hungarica {Hungarian water}, and much later Napoleon I
is said to have been exceedingly partial to bergamot cologne. Supposedly
Guerlain's Imperiale was made up by them for Napoleon III. Imperiale is
much more refined than 4711, and much more expensive. There are other
versions as well, by other manufacturers. Bourbon Orleans Perfumes in New
Orleans has been selling their version since 1840 as "Napoleon's secret
formulation from his own personal apothecary." This may or may nor be true.
You can buy some and make your own judgment.

Salmonella

"Tom Koeppl" wrote in message
...
earl grey tea has bergamot in it. what is it ? where does it come
from.? why was it used?
does it have other uses? history? a recent post stated that very hot
water ruins the bergamot taste. Is this true.?



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Old 24-01-2005, 12:42 AM
Mike Petro
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I use the essential oil in soap making as well. Bergamot, Sandalwood,
and Eucalyptus have developed into my most used oils as well as some
Lavender for the Ladies. I have dabbled in making cologne but I have
never been satisfied with how long my scents lasted through the day.

Mike


On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 18:25:47 -0600, "Salmonella"
cast caution to the wind and posted:

Bergamot is perhaps the most common scent in perfumery, it has been said
that the majority of perfume blends contain at least some oil of bergamot.
The other truism is that when one considers the second most common scent
(sandalwood), the vast majority of perfume blends certainly contain one, the
other, or both. The classic cologne (that gave the name "eau de cologne"
or "kolnisch wasser" to watered-down perfume) is 4711, over 200 years old
and made in Cologne (actually Koln, with an umlaut or dieresis, in German).
4711 has been made at Glockengasse 4711 in Cologne since the 1700s by
Muelhens. It positively reeks of bergamot, and when I was growing up in a
French town in Louisiana in the 1950s, 4711 was much beloved of my various
maiden aunts. I remember thinking of it as a rather old fashioned cologne,
used by women and by men as well (as an after shave lotion. The blend of
bergamot and rosemary was not originated by Muelhens, however; there is
definitely an account of a similar product at the court of Marie de Medicis
under the name aqua hungarica {Hungarian water}, and much later Napoleon I
is said to have been exceedingly partial to bergamot cologne. Supposedly
Guerlain's Imperiale was made up by them for Napoleon III. Imperiale is
much more refined than 4711, and much more expensive. There are other
versions as well, by other manufacturers. Bourbon Orleans Perfumes in New
Orleans has been selling their version since 1840 as "Napoleon's secret
formulation from his own personal apothecary." This may or may nor be true.
You can buy some and make your own judgment.

Salmonella

"Tom Koeppl" wrote in message
...
earl grey tea has bergamot in it. what is it ? where does it come
from.? why was it used?
does it have other uses? history? a recent post stated that very hot
water ruins the bergamot taste. Is this true.?



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Old 24-01-2005, 03:21 AM
Salmonella
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I should also add that Caswell-Massey's version of a bergamot
cologne--"Number 6"--was used by George Washington, and given by him as a
gift to the Marquis de Lafayette. They have the receipts to prove it.
Beyond that, my in the 1970s I recall buying a gift set from 4711 for a
Christmas present for my wife; it contained a bottle of Cologne and a jar of
bergamot marmalade. I combined that with some Earl Grey tea, and I remember
putting on the card, "have a bergamesque Christmas." Ellen thought it was
very witty at the time. The marmalade was quite bitter, I recall, and
thick, though not any thicker and not any more bitter than English Seville
orange marmalade. I learned later that "bergamot" is not related to the
Italian place-name "Bergamo", nor is it related to the herb also called
bergamot. The bitter orange is properly pronounced berg-a-maht, and not
berg-a-moh. Apparently, the word "bergamot" is derived from the Turkish
"beg armodi". There are people who do eat bergamots, apparently with great
relish. The Italian firm called more or less "Bova Essences" has been
selling the bergamot oil to perfumers and others for years, and now they
seem to be making a liqueur, which I have not had. The Turks and other
folks from the Balkans have been making bergamot marmalade it seems. You may
find it in groceries in the United States that carry Bulgarian or Turkish
preserves, It is usually labeled something like "bitter green orange
marmalade." It is as the label says, and I assure you, an acquired taste.

Salmonella


"Mike Petro" wrote in message
...
I use the essential oil in soap making as well. Bergamot, Sandalwood,
and Eucalyptus have developed into my most used oils as well as some
Lavender for the Ladies. I have dabbled in making cologne but I have
never been satisfied with how long my scents lasted through the day.

Mike


On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 18:25:47 -0600, "Salmonella"
cast caution to the wind and posted:

Bergamot is perhaps the most common scent in perfumery, it has been said
that the majority of perfume blends contain at least some oil of bergamot.
The other truism is that when one considers the second most common scent
(sandalwood), the vast majority of perfume blends certainly contain one,
the
other, or both. The classic cologne (that gave the name "eau de cologne"
or "kolnisch wasser" to watered-down perfume) is 4711, over 200 years old
and made in Cologne (actually Koln, with an umlaut or dieresis, in
German).
4711 has been made at Glockengasse 4711 in Cologne since the 1700s by
Muelhens. It positively reeks of bergamot, and when I was growing up in a
French town in Louisiana in the 1950s, 4711 was much beloved of my various
maiden aunts. I remember thinking of it as a rather old fashioned
cologne,
used by women and by men as well (as an after shave lotion. The blend of
bergamot and rosemary was not originated by Muelhens, however; there is
definitely an account of a similar product at the court of Marie de
Medicis
under the name aqua hungarica {Hungarian water}, and much later Napoleon I
is said to have been exceedingly partial to bergamot cologne. Supposedly
Guerlain's Imperiale was made up by them for Napoleon III. Imperiale is
much more refined than 4711, and much more expensive. There are other
versions as well, by other manufacturers. Bourbon Orleans Perfumes in New
Orleans has been selling their version since 1840 as "Napoleon's secret
formulation from his own personal apothecary." This may or may nor be
true.
You can buy some and make your own judgment.

Salmonella

"Tom Koeppl" wrote in message
...
earl grey tea has bergamot in it. what is it ? where does it come
from.? why was it used?
does it have other uses? history? a recent post stated that very hot
water ruins the bergamot taste. Is this true.?





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Old 24-01-2005, 03:34 AM
Bluesea
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Derek" wrote in message ...

Nope. Earl Charles Grey, Whig party, Prime Minister of England from
1830 to 1834.

"It was while he was prime minister, that by act of law the East India
Company lost its monopoly on China trade which was mostly in tea.
Ironic that the name of the prime minister to King William IV is best
known around the world for a blend of Indian and Sri Lankans tea
delicately scented with the citrus flavour of bergamot. The recipe for
"Earl Grey" is said to have been given by a Chinese man to a British
soldier during the Opium War (1839-42) in gratitude for saving his
live. Another version story has a Chinese mandarin friend of the Earl
giving him the recipe."

From: http://www.britannia.com/gov/primes/prime26.html


The first story is unlikely because there's a stretch to how it got to be so
popular with the Earl.

The second story is unlikely if one believes the Twinings' story. From
http://www.twinings.com/en_int/histo...n/moretea.asp:

"According to popular legend, the blend was a gift from a grateful Chinese
mandarin. It seems that an envoy sent to China by Earl Grey did the mandarin
a good turn (he may have saved the mandarin’s life, the details are
unknown).

When the mandarin’s tasty gift began to run out, Earl Grey asked his tea
merchants, Twinings, to match it for him. Twinings unique blend was the Grey
family’s long-standing favourite. When guests inquired about it, they were
directed to Twinings on the Strand, where they would ask for Earl Grey’s tea
by name."


Interestingly enough, Twinings and Jacksons used to argue (until Twinings
acquired Jacksons in 1990) about which first developed the Earl Grey tea.
They wouldn't have had to develop a recipe if they'd had the original
Chinese recipe which, BTW, I'm confident would have used China black tea and
not the China, Darjeeling, Ceylon, and hint of Lapsang souchong that
Twinings uses.

OTOH, Jacksons claims that it's held the original recipe ever since the Earl
gave it to them. From
http://www.jacksons-of-piccadilly.co...ough_time5.asp

or, http://tinyurl.com/5homl:

"Robert Jackson & Company has held the original recipe since 1830 when the
2nd Earl Grey entrusted it to George Charlton a partner of Robert Jackson &
Co. This blend was said to be the 'perfection of black China tea' and 'for
flavours it is unsurpassed'. Jacksons remain sole proprietors of this
original formula, which remains unaltered today. There are many imitations
but none to match Jacksons' original Earl Grey's blend."


--
~~Bluesea~~ feeling thirsty
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.




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