Tea (rec.drink.tea) Discussion relating to tea, the world's second most consumed beverage (after water), made by infusing or boiling the leaves of the tea plant (C. sinensis or close relatives) in water.

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Old 17-12-2009, 06:19 PM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Can Black Tea Just Be Black Tea?

On Dec 17, 12:04*pm, niisonge wrote:
Here's the link in Chinese to the article that prompted this
discussion in the first place:

http://www.chanertea.com%2Ftrends.asp%3Fid%3D235

I suppose the question they really want to know, is what are all you
cool tea peeps/tea connoisseurs willing to accept as the English for
"hei cha".

Proposed suggestions include:
1. hei cha
2. dark tea
3. fu tea (note: a new name meaning "happiness")
4. return to original, direct chinese tranlation: black tea
5. don't know/care


Honestly, I say you should use the term "Hei Cha" as-is in such cases.
It's better than some made up name, and has history and tradition.
Otherwise stick to Black Tea or if necessary begin to use Red Tea in
cases where it fits. I just know that "Red Tea" might conjure images
of Rooibos, or some other type of tisane. People have access to the
Internet and if they are interested they will look into it. I know a
few people who have bought a box of Pu-Erh teabags from the grocery
shelf but then came to me when they didn't like it and wanted to know
if I knew of it... when I ask why they bought it, almost invariably
they say "it sounded exotic."

- Dominic

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Old 17-12-2009, 07:09 PM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Can Black Tea Just Be Black Tea?

Honestly, I say you should use the term "Hei Cha" as-is in such cases.
It's better than some made up name, and has history and tradition.


Ok, does everyone agree on "Hei Cha"?

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Old 17-12-2009, 08:00 PM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Can Black Tea Just Be Black Tea?

Youre back to square one. It wont be lost on some unscrupulous vendor
hei cha means black tea in Chinese. That is the stuff he sells at a
cheaper price. Im more of a fermented fan dropping the post. Some
consumer will wonder about pre fermentation. You cant really say it
is mao cha. If that consumer ever wonders what happens to sheng over
the long hall tell them it matures or ages.

Jim

On Dec 17, 12:09 pm, niisonge wrote:
Honestly, I say you should use the term "Hei Cha" as-is in such cases.
It's better than some made up name, and has history and tradition.


Ok, does everyone agree on "Hei Cha"?

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Old 17-12-2009, 08:38 PM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Can Black Tea Just Be Black Tea?

niisonge writes:

Honestly, I say you should use the term "Hei Cha" as-is in such cases.
It's better than some made up name, and has history and tradition.


Ok, does everyone agree on "Hei Cha"?


It's OK by me. It doesn't distort reality, and, while it's opaque to
most Westerners, so was Oolong alias Wulong once upon a time.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html
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Old 18-12-2009, 02:02 AM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Can Black Tea Just Be Black Tea?

niisonge,

I was going to suggest "heicha" before reading the rest of the postings. I
guess we are all great minds! After reading the rest, I still think this is
the best choice. As already mentioned, it has the advantage of being the (or
at least "an") actual Chinese term,

I know one US vendor who is already using "dark tea" - I believe most or all
of what he is calling that is fu tea.

Trying to re-claim "black tea" is totally a lost cause, and would only breed
confusion.

I thought "fu tea" was a specific kind of heicha
(http://www.generationtea.com/store/p...e6c0d34727a2c),
so I wouldn't think that would be a good generic name.

D.

"niisonge" wrote in message
...
Here's the link in Chinese to the article that prompted this
discussion in the first place:

http://www.chanertea.com%2Ftrends.asp%3Fid%3D235

I suppose the question they really want to know, is what are all you
cool tea peeps/tea connoisseurs willing to accept as the English for
"hei cha".

Proposed suggestions include:
1. hei cha
2. dark tea
3. fu tea (note: a new name meaning "happiness")
4. return to original, direct chinese tranlation: black tea
5. don't know/care





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Old 18-12-2009, 02:42 AM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Can Black Tea Just Be Black Tea?

On 2009-12-17, niisonge wrote:
For post-fermented tea ? Brown tea. Let them use western naming
according to the colour of the liquor.
If they don't want to adopt western naming, just let them struggle
with naming in western market. Simple as that.


Brown tea ... I'll see how that goes. How about Grey tea?

As for naming in the western market, there is also the option to
reclaim the name "black tea". But let's see how that goes.


I think that's too potentially confusing. For puer, at least, I think
just calling it puer is best, especially since at what point sheng puer
is considered hei cha is, AFAIK, still up for debate.

As far as other post-fermented teas, I don't think there's a huge demand
for them here, and presumably the people who want them know what to call
them.

--
Multi-lingual forum for Chinese and Japanese tea and teawa
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Old 18-12-2009, 03:26 AM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Can Black Tea Just Be Black Tea?

I was going to suggest "heicha" before reading the rest of the postings. I
guess we are all great minds! After reading the rest, I still think this is
the best choice. As already mentioned, it has the advantage of being the (or
at least "an") actual Chinese term,


That's right. I suggested they use the term "hei cha". Or at least
"hei tea". Add a new word to the English lexicon. I'm sure there will
be more about this discussion later. Let's see what they have to say
in China.

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Old 18-12-2009, 03:29 AM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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As far as other post-fermented teas, I don't think there's a huge demand
for them here, and presumably the people who want them know what to call
them.


Yeah, they want to market Hunan “hei cha", they just haven't decided
how to best describe the tea category yet.

On another note, it seems "fermented tea" as opposed to "oxidized tea"
is just a touchy subject in China as it is here.
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Old 18-12-2009, 01:26 PM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Why is that. The difference is apparent.

Jim

On Dec 17, 8:29 pm, niisonge wrote

On another note, it seems "fermented tea" as opposed to "oxidized tea"
is just a touchy subject in China as it is here.


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Old 18-12-2009, 02:28 PM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Can Black Tea Just Be Black Tea?

although it's a bit late: 'chinese black tea' i think, the same way i
make distincions between chinese and japanese green tea.

i'm thinking in spanish, and 'jeicha' (we don't have the english h
pronunciation) doesn't sound serious to me. anyway here we mostly have
english or french franchises, so maybe this kind of tea won't reach
here...
here red tea is both rooibos and puerh, depending on the day. and
couriously there are some places (cafeterías) that changed the black
english average teabags for puerh teabags, and there is no choice for
other kinds...
(just a comment from the periphery)

kind regards,
bonifacio barrio hijosa
http://worldoftea.iespana.es/


On Dec 17, 2:07*pm, niisonge wrote:
Chinese vendors are having a discussion over translating the Chinese
tea type "black tea" into English. For so long, what Chinese call "red
tea" has always been called "black tea" in the West. Now, when they
want to market black tea, ie., post-fermented tea, they don't know
exactly what to call it.

Some suggested using the word "dark tea". But others in China don't
like the idea; since it doesn't fully describe the color black, and
has too many other connotations.

I tried looking for synonyms for "black" but none seem to be suitable.

Are there any alternatives? What would be an acceptable name to
describe "Chinese black tea" in the West?




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Old 18-12-2009, 06:30 PM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Why is that. *The difference is apparent.

In China, they always say (in books, and common speech) "fermented
tea" as opposed to "oxidized tea". But tea teachers are quick to point
out the difference between real fermentation and the process of
oxidation that tea goes under.

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Old 19-12-2009, 03:04 PM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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When I look at the Chinese pages Ive always wondered why sometimes
they incorrectly use fermented and red tea seemingly in the same
sentence when they should use oxidized. I like the word. I think it
gives the correct connotation that something is happening at the
microbe level. It is used in the culinary West to describe what
happens to certain food products like wine and cheese. Everybody
understands yeast.

Jim

On Dec 18, 11:30 am, niisonge wrote:
Why is that. The difference is apparent.


In China, they always say (in books, and common speech) "fermented
tea" as opposed to "oxidized tea". But tea teachers are quick to point
out the difference between real fermentation and the process of
oxidation that tea goes under.

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Old 19-12-2009, 10:28 PM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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In China, they always say (in books, and common speech) "fermented
tea" as opposed to "oxidized tea". But tea teachers are quick to point
out the difference between real fermentation and the process of
oxidation that tea goes under.- Hide quoted text -


Yeah, I like the term fermented better than oxidized. Fermented is a
good food word. Oxidized has negative connotations with food. Potatoes
get oxidized. Apples get oxidized. Ferment is better, IMO.
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Old 21-12-2009, 02:21 PM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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You really have me chasing my tea tail now. I thought you initially
meant the Chinese were using the term fermentation incorrectly when
they meant oxidized. Now youre saying they use it interchangeably
with oxidized. Slicing a potato or apple will change oxidized colors
in a short time. Given enough time it will ferment like moonshine
mash or hard apple cider.

Jim

On Dec 19, 3:28 pm, niisonge wrote:
In China, they always say (in books, and common speech) "fermented
tea" as opposed to "oxidized tea". But tea teachers are quick to point
out the difference between real fermentation and the process of
oxidation that tea goes under.- Hide quoted text -


Yeah, I like the term fermented better than oxidized. Fermented is a
good food word. Oxidized has negative connotations with food. Potatoes
get oxidized. Apples get oxidized. Ferment is better, IMO.

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Old 21-12-2009, 03:09 PM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Now youre saying they use it interchangeably
with oxidized.


Yeah, when it comes to tea, they do use ferment do use ferment and
oxidized somehwat interchangeably, as a way to describe fermentation.
But...when talking about tea types, they exclusively use ferment and/
or degree of "fermentation".


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