"Doug Hazen, Jr." wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I hesitate to jump in with any recommendations, given the Puer expertise and
> experience here, but ... "fools rush in" and all that.
>
> First, I personally wouldn't buy Puer selling for less than $10 a 1/4 pound
> / 100 gms. For a little more money, you'll have a much better chance of
> getting a decent tea.

> Though I've only had samples packages of each, both Imperial Tea Court's
> "Superior Puerh" black loose-leaf
> (http://www.imperialtea.com/AB1002000...roduct_ID=91&C
> ategory_ID=21) [...] seemed pretty decent.

Would you other Puerh fanciers agree with this assessment? Is Imperial
Tea's "Superior Puerh" a decent offering?

--crymad

Lewis Perin wrote:
>
> Sorry, I wasn't being completely serious. It's this character flaw of
> mine: I just can't bring myself to use smileys. Also, I thought I was
> being clever by referring to Crymad's "tea product" epithet. I'll try
> to be good in the future.

"Puerh - The Velveeta of Teas"

--crymad

Lewis Perin wrote:
>
> Sorry, I wasn't being completely serious. It's this character flaw of
> mine: I just can't bring myself to use smileys. Also, I thought I was
> being clever by referring to Crymad's "tea product" epithet. I'll try
> to be good in the future.

"Puerh - The Velveeta of Teas"

--crymad

Lew,

On the one hand, I wasn't completely serious either. On the other hand, you
were obviously too clever for me, since I didn't pick up your reference. Ah,
well - more brain cells dying every day; maybe I need to drink more tea.

Doug


"Lewis Perin" > wrote in message
news
> "Doug Hazen, Jr." > writes:
>
> > [...]
> >
> > If you're interested enough, I would urge you to give Puers an
> > adequate chance. IOW: a) don't buy the cheap crap, and b) try at
> > least 3 or 4 (or 5) before giving up. Some people take to 'em
> > immediately, but they can grow on you, too, though I suppose there
> > are also some poor souls who never learn to love them. While the
> > esteemed Mr. Perin's asssertion that "All other tea products are
> > girly-teas" is not actually true, it *is* true that most other teas
> > aren't as good as *good* Puer.
>
> Sorry, I wasn't being completely serious. It's this character flaw of
> mine: I just can't bring myself to use smileys. Also, I thought I was
> being clever by referring to Crymad's "tea product" epithet. I'll try
> to be good in the future.
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin /
> http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Lew,

On the one hand, I wasn't completely serious either. On the other hand, you
were obviously too clever for me, since I didn't pick up your reference. Ah,
well - more brain cells dying every day; maybe I need to drink more tea.

Doug


"Lewis Perin" > wrote in message
news
> "Doug Hazen, Jr." > writes:
>
> > [...]
> >
> > If you're interested enough, I would urge you to give Puers an
> > adequate chance. IOW: a) don't buy the cheap crap, and b) try at
> > least 3 or 4 (or 5) before giving up. Some people take to 'em
> > immediately, but they can grow on you, too, though I suppose there
> > are also some poor souls who never learn to love them. While the
> > esteemed Mr. Perin's asssertion that "All other tea products are
> > girly-teas" is not actually true, it *is* true that most other teas
> > aren't as good as *good* Puer.
>
> Sorry, I wasn't being completely serious. It's this character flaw of
> mine: I just can't bring myself to use smileys. Also, I thought I was
> being clever by referring to Crymad's "tea product" epithet. I'll try
> to be good in the future.
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin /
> http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

"Melinda" > wrote in message
om...
> I just realized today that another reason I may be having a hard time
> with the puer I do have is that I may be brewing it way too strong. I
> don't have a scale so I have been eyeballing it. I brewed it a little
> lighter today and didn't mind it so much.

I also agree you need to be careful with the time and amount until you know
the tea. Some black Puers you can steep seemingly indefinitely, others not,
and I suspect (though I don't know for sure) that green Puers are MUCH more
susceptible to over-steeping. You could probably steep the black Large Leaf
Puer from Shan Shui I mentioned for 12 or 15 minutes (maybe even more), and
it would still be fine. Other Puers I've had would I think be undrinkable
after that long, and might even start eating through the pot.

> month I am hoping to get more samples of assams as I am still
> searching for one that really knocks my socks off. Need to restock my

If you find that Assam, please let us know. I found one that came close at
SpecialTeas, then of course they ran out, and haven't gotten in this year's
crop yet (which of course may not be as good as last year's - sigh). I
haven't found one as good yet.

> keemun. I want to get some honeybush for evenings (I know not tea, no
> caffeine though).

I kinda sorta like honeybush for evenings too. But it's a long long way from
tea, unfortunately.

Doug

"Melinda" > wrote in message
om...
> I just realized today that another reason I may be having a hard time
> with the puer I do have is that I may be brewing it way too strong. I
> don't have a scale so I have been eyeballing it. I brewed it a little
> lighter today and didn't mind it so much.

I also agree you need to be careful with the time and amount until you know
the tea. Some black Puers you can steep seemingly indefinitely, others not,
and I suspect (though I don't know for sure) that green Puers are MUCH more
susceptible to over-steeping. You could probably steep the black Large Leaf
Puer from Shan Shui I mentioned for 12 or 15 minutes (maybe even more), and
it would still be fine. Other Puers I've had would I think be undrinkable
after that long, and might even start eating through the pot.

> month I am hoping to get more samples of assams as I am still
> searching for one that really knocks my socks off. Need to restock my

If you find that Assam, please let us know. I found one that came close at
SpecialTeas, then of course they ran out, and haven't gotten in this year's
crop yet (which of course may not be as good as last year's - sigh). I
haven't found one as good yet.

> keemun. I want to get some honeybush for evenings (I know not tea, no
> caffeine though).

I kinda sorta like honeybush for evenings too. But it's a long long way from
tea, unfortunately.

Doug

In article >, Michael Plant wrote:
> However, my Hong Kong back to China commemorative requires a
> hacksaw, a hammer, and super strength to get a workable piece.

Heh, I have one (two, even) for which the best tools for removing
chunks are a wood chisel and a rubber mallet. (Have to be careful not
to scar the counter....)


N.

> If the knife shreads and tears, it's not a good instrument to pry at the
> Pu-erh, IMO. The idea is to wedge, wriggle, and wiggle from an edge so as
> not to harm the leaves.

Mike,

I have a feeling that if a puerh is not a whole leaf variety but rather a
broken leaf (Like Dai bamboo) it is better not to further break the
break-off piece. It actually prolongs the extraction during the coarse of
several steeps and makes them less contrast. To my surprise it stayed intact
(more or less) through 4 steeps and fell apart only later. That made my
first steeps less intense and my late steeps stronger and more consistent
with the earlier. To break it off I carefilly insert a sharp knife couple of
times along the line that I want to break it off and carefully detach the
piece. It comes off the cake pretty solid. I also noticed that this way it
is also less sensitive to hotter steeps probably because the inner part is
not getting skolded right away.
I guess the whole leaf cakes do not require this for obvious reasons. Also
the whole leaf cake won't hold on in one piece for a long time anyway.

Just an observation.

Sasha.

> If the knife shreads and tears, it's not a good instrument to pry at the
> Pu-erh, IMO. The idea is to wedge, wriggle, and wiggle from an edge so as
> not to harm the leaves.

Mike,

I have a feeling that if a puerh is not a whole leaf variety but rather a
broken leaf (Like Dai bamboo) it is better not to further break the
break-off piece. It actually prolongs the extraction during the coarse of
several steeps and makes them less contrast. To my surprise it stayed intact
(more or less) through 4 steeps and fell apart only later. That made my
first steeps less intense and my late steeps stronger and more consistent
with the earlier. To break it off I carefilly insert a sharp knife couple of
times along the line that I want to break it off and carefully detach the
piece. It comes off the cake pretty solid. I also noticed that this way it
is also less sensitive to hotter steeps probably because the inner part is
not getting skolded right away.
I guess the whole leaf cakes do not require this for obvious reasons. Also
the whole leaf cake won't hold on in one piece for a long time anyway.

Just an observation.

Sasha.

"Natarajan Krishnaswami" > wrote in message

> Heh, I have one (two, even) for which the best tools for removing
> chunks are a wood chisel and a rubber mallet. (Have to be >careful not
> to scar the counter....)

That seems complicated.
I use a cork screw, the simple model in shape of T. It is always possible to
find a little hole to attack the block and then you just turn the tool to
get deeper. When you pull it out, small blocks of tea come with it. No
strength is needed.
I had tried the ice-pick and mallet before, and that didn't work for me.

Kuri

Natarajan 9/23/04


> In article >, Michael Plant wrote:
>> However, my Hong Kong back to China commemorative requires a
>> hacksaw, a hammer, and super strength to get a workable piece.
>
> Heh, I have one (two, even) for which the best tools for removing
> chunks are a wood chisel and a rubber mallet. (Have to be careful not
> to scar the counter....)
>
>
> N.

For serious divisioning of this tea, a band saw is recommended. Talk to me
about how you find its taste and style.
M

Alex digy.com9/23/04


>> If the knife shreads and tears, it's not a good instrument to pry at the
>> Pu-erh, IMO. The idea is to wedge, wriggle, and wiggle from an edge so as
>> not to harm the leaves.
>
> Mike,
>
> I have a feeling that if a puerh is not a whole leaf variety but rather a
> broken leaf (Like Dai bamboo) it is better not to further break the
> break-off piece. It actually prolongs the extraction during the coarse of
> several steeps and makes them less contrast. To my surprise it stayed intact
> (more or less) through 4 steeps and fell apart only later. That made my
> first steeps less intense and my late steeps stronger and more consistent
> with the earlier. To break it off I carefilly insert a sharp knife couple of
> times along the line that I want to break it off and carefully detach the
> piece. It comes off the cake pretty solid. I also noticed that this way it
> is also less sensitive to hotter steeps probably because the inner part is
> not getting skolded right away.
> I guess the whole leaf cakes do not require this for obvious reasons. Also
> the whole leaf cake won't hold on in one piece for a long time anyway.
>
> Just an observation.

And a good one, I'd say. I did a similar thing yesterday, noting that the
HKbtC pieces waited until later steeps to come apart completely. Speaking of
which I'm not entirely sure that I'm not harming my teas' potential by using
the particular pot I dedicated to Pu-erh. While the tea tastes good and
smells fine in cup, there is a "funky" smell from the pot itself sometimes
that disturbs me. This pot is about 8 ounces, and is made of what appears to
be rather porous clay, probably at a lower firing, judging from the "clunk"
as opposed to "clink" of the tapped surface. It's a factory production. I
had bought it new and used it for Pu-erhs most of its life. This is a bit
discouraging.

Michael

/23/04

>
> "Natarajan Krishnaswami" > wrote in message
>
>> Heh, I have one (two, even) for which the best tools for removing
>> chunks are a wood chisel and a rubber mallet. (Have to be >careful not
>> to scar the counter....)
>
> That seems complicated.
> I use a cork screw, the simple model in shape of T. It is always possible to
> find a little hole to attack the block and then you just turn the tool to
> get deeper. When you pull it out, small blocks of tea come with it. No
> strength is needed.
> I had tried the ice-pick and mallet before, and that didn't work for me.

Kuri,

I'm going to examine the brick again, but it looks impervious to such
treatment.

Michael

crymad > writes:

> "Doug Hazen, Jr." wrote:
> > [...]
> > First, I personally wouldn't buy Puer selling for less than $10 a
> > 1/4 pound / 100 gms. For a little more money, you'll have a much
> > better chance of getting a decent tea.
>
> > Though I've only had samples packages of each, both Imperial Tea Court's
> > "Superior Puerh" black loose-leaf
> > (http://www.imperialtea.com/AB1002000...roduct_ID=91&C
> > ategory_ID=21) [...] seemed pretty decent.
>
> Would you other Puerh fanciers agree with this assessment?

As a rule of thumb, yes, but sometimes I get lucky in New York's
Chinatown with a penny-a-gram Puerh.

> Is Imperial Tea's "Superior Puerh" a decent offering?

Sorry, haven't tried it.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

crymad > writes:

> "Doug Hazen, Jr." wrote:
> > [...]
> > First, I personally wouldn't buy Puer selling for less than $10 a
> > 1/4 pound / 100 gms. For a little more money, you'll have a much
> > better chance of getting a decent tea.
>
> > Though I've only had samples packages of each, both Imperial Tea Court's
> > "Superior Puerh" black loose-leaf
> > (http://www.imperialtea.com/AB1002000...roduct_ID=91&C
> > ategory_ID=21) [...] seemed pretty decent.
>
> Would you other Puerh fanciers agree with this assessment?

As a rule of thumb, yes, but sometimes I get lucky in New York's
Chinatown with a penny-a-gram Puerh.

> Is Imperial Tea's "Superior Puerh" a decent offering?

Sorry, haven't tried it.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

> While the tea tastes good and
> smells fine in cup, there is a "funky" smell from the pot itself sometimes
> that disturbs me. This pot is about 8 ounces, and is made of what appears
> to
> be rather porous clay, probably at a lower firing, judging from the
> "clunk"
> as opposed to "clink" of the tapped surface. It's a factory production. I
> had bought it new and used it for Pu-erhs most of its life. This is a bit
> discouraging.

There are so few things in life that one can afford to just get rid of if
one's expectations are not met, that if you have even slightiest dislike of
your chahu - throw the damn thing away and treat yourself to a better one.
Or boil it for couple of hours and see if it helps, if you are frugal, as a
true New Yorker should be (or a tinkerer). My guess you may have mold in
large-pore chahus. NYT is a humid place and mold has a better chance there.
BTW - its not precisely the topic, buy you may be interested to know what I
was told by serious yixing people in China. The true test of yixing zisha
pot short of chemical tests is the fact that yixing pot before it was ever
used has a sort of metallic clank. After it is brought to contact with water
the clank "muffles" a bit. If no such difference can be noted, suspicion
should arise. It is also interesting to know that zisha means not "purple
clay" but "purple sandstone" and raw zisha is a piece of clayey sandstone
that needs to be broken and crushed first. These quartz sand particles that
are very uniform in size are responsible for zisha's special porous
qualities and mecahnical sturdiness. Because of that, a large-pore pot most
probably cannot be made of yixing zisha. Your pot is probably made of other
variaties of red clays of China (there are several).

Sasha.

> While the tea tastes good and
> smells fine in cup, there is a "funky" smell from the pot itself sometimes
> that disturbs me. This pot is about 8 ounces, and is made of what appears
> to
> be rather porous clay, probably at a lower firing, judging from the
> "clunk"
> as opposed to "clink" of the tapped surface. It's a factory production. I
> had bought it new and used it for Pu-erhs most of its life. This is a bit
> discouraging.

There are so few things in life that one can afford to just get rid of if
one's expectations are not met, that if you have even slightiest dislike of
your chahu - throw the damn thing away and treat yourself to a better one.
Or boil it for couple of hours and see if it helps, if you are frugal, as a
true New Yorker should be (or a tinkerer). My guess you may have mold in
large-pore chahus. NYT is a humid place and mold has a better chance there.
BTW - its not precisely the topic, buy you may be interested to know what I
was told by serious yixing people in China. The true test of yixing zisha
pot short of chemical tests is the fact that yixing pot before it was ever
used has a sort of metallic clank. After it is brought to contact with water
the clank "muffles" a bit. If no such difference can be noted, suspicion
should arise. It is also interesting to know that zisha means not "purple
clay" but "purple sandstone" and raw zisha is a piece of clayey sandstone
that needs to be broken and crushed first. These quartz sand particles that
are very uniform in size are responsible for zisha's special porous
qualities and mecahnical sturdiness. Because of that, a large-pore pot most
probably cannot be made of yixing zisha. Your pot is probably made of other
variaties of red clays of China (there are several).

Sasha.

> While the tea tastes good and
> smells fine in cup, there is a "funky" smell from the pot itself sometimes
> that disturbs me. This pot is about 8 ounces, and is made of what appears
> to
> be rather porous clay, probably at a lower firing, judging from the
> "clunk"
> as opposed to "clink" of the tapped surface. It's a factory production. I
> had bought it new and used it for Pu-erhs most of its life. This is a bit
> discouraging.

There are so few things in life that one can afford to just get rid of if
one's expectations are not met, that if you have even slightiest dislike of
your chahu - throw the damn thing away and treat yourself to a better one.
Or boil it for couple of hours and see if it helps, if you are frugal, as a
true New Yorker should be (or a tinkerer). My guess you may have mold in
large-pore chahus. NYT is a humid place and mold has a better chance there.
BTW - its not precisely the topic, buy you may be interested to know what I
was told by serious yixing people in China. The true test of yixing zisha
pot short of chemical tests is the fact that yixing pot before it was ever
used has a sort of metallic clank. After it is brought to contact with water
the clank "muffles" a bit. If no such difference can be noted, suspicion
should arise. It is also interesting to know that zisha means not "purple
clay" but "purple sandstone" and raw zisha is a piece of clayey sandstone
that needs to be broken and crushed first. These quartz sand particles that
are very uniform in size are responsible for zisha's special porous
qualities and mecahnical sturdiness. Because of that, a large-pore pot most
probably cannot be made of yixing zisha. Your pot is probably made of other
variaties of red clays of China (there are several).

Sasha.

Lewis Perin wrote:
>
> crymad > writes:
>
> > "Doug Hazen, Jr." wrote:
> > > [...]
> > > First, I personally wouldn't buy Puer selling for less than $10 a
> > > 1/4 pound / 100 gms. For a little more money, you'll have a much
> > > better chance of getting a decent tea.
> >
> > > Though I've only had samples packages of each, both Imperial Tea Court's
> > > "Superior Puerh" black loose-leaf
> > > (http://www.imperialtea.com/AB1002000...roduct_ID=91&C
> > > ategory_ID=21) [...] seemed pretty decent.
> >
> > Would you other Puerh fanciers agree with this assessment?
>
> As a rule of thumb, yes, but sometimes I get lucky in New York's
> Chinatown with a penny-a-gram Puerh.

Well, the sample you kindly sent me some time back was surely not this
penny-Puerh, was it?

>
> > Is Imperial Tea's "Superior Puerh" a decent offering?
>
> Sorry, haven't tried it.

I have. I remember my impressions as if it were just yesterday...

"Foul stuff, all. In fact, had I drunk them without knowing what was
being
offered, I would have been hard-pressed to say they were teas.
Infusions of roots or bark, perhaps scooped from a dark moist pile well
on its way to decomposition, but not tea. Maybe tea isn't the point for
Puerh -- tea leaves are simply the vehicle for carrying that aged,
mummified flavor the Chinese have such an appreciation for. But for
someone like myself who prizes the delicate freshness of Japanese
greens, Puerh is an evil perversion of what tea should be."

I do wish to stop holding forth on my disdain for Puerh. But since this
newsgroup of late feels like a Puerh pep rally, I really have no choice.

--crymad

Lewis Perin wrote:
>
> crymad > writes:
>
> > "Doug Hazen, Jr." wrote:
> > > [...]
> > > First, I personally wouldn't buy Puer selling for less than $10 a
> > > 1/4 pound / 100 gms. For a little more money, you'll have a much
> > > better chance of getting a decent tea.
> >
> > > Though I've only had samples packages of each, both Imperial Tea Court's
> > > "Superior Puerh" black loose-leaf
> > > (http://www.imperialtea.com/AB1002000...roduct_ID=91&C
> > > ategory_ID=21) [...] seemed pretty decent.
> >
> > Would you other Puerh fanciers agree with this assessment?
>
> As a rule of thumb, yes, but sometimes I get lucky in New York's
> Chinatown with a penny-a-gram Puerh.

Well, the sample you kindly sent me some time back was surely not this
penny-Puerh, was it?

>
> > Is Imperial Tea's "Superior Puerh" a decent offering?
>
> Sorry, haven't tried it.

I have. I remember my impressions as if it were just yesterday...

"Foul stuff, all. In fact, had I drunk them without knowing what was
being
offered, I would have been hard-pressed to say they were teas.
Infusions of roots or bark, perhaps scooped from a dark moist pile well
on its way to decomposition, but not tea. Maybe tea isn't the point for
Puerh -- tea leaves are simply the vehicle for carrying that aged,
mummified flavor the Chinese have such an appreciation for. But for
someone like myself who prizes the delicate freshness of Japanese
greens, Puerh is an evil perversion of what tea should be."

I do wish to stop holding forth on my disdain for Puerh. But since this
newsgroup of late feels like a Puerh pep rally, I really have no choice.

--crymad

crymad > writes:

> Lewis Perin wrote:
> >
> > crymad > writes:
> >
> > > "Doug Hazen, Jr." wrote:
> > > > [...]
> > > > First, I personally wouldn't buy Puer selling for less than
> > > > $10 a 1/4 pound / 100 gms. For a little more money, you'll
> > > > have a much better chance of getting a decent tea.
> > >
> > > > Though I've only had samples packages of each, both Imperial
> > > > Tea Court's "Superior Puerh" black loose-leaf
> > > > (http://www.imperialtea.com/AB1002000...roduct_ID=91&C
> > > > ategory_ID=21) [...] seemed pretty decent.
> > >
> > > Would you other Puerh fanciers agree with this assessment?
> >
> > As a rule of thumb, yes, but sometimes I get lucky in New York's
> > Chinatown with a penny-a-gram Puerh.
>
> Well, the sample you kindly sent me some time back was surely not this
> penny-Puerh, was it?

No, I sent you something I think is much better: Silk Road's green Dai
Bamboo Puerh.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

crymad > writes:

> Lewis Perin wrote:
> >
> > crymad > writes:
> >
> > > "Doug Hazen, Jr." wrote:
> > > > [...]
> > > > First, I personally wouldn't buy Puer selling for less than
> > > > $10 a 1/4 pound / 100 gms. For a little more money, you'll
> > > > have a much better chance of getting a decent tea.
> > >
> > > > Though I've only had samples packages of each, both Imperial
> > > > Tea Court's "Superior Puerh" black loose-leaf
> > > > (http://www.imperialtea.com/AB1002000...roduct_ID=91&C
> > > > ategory_ID=21) [...] seemed pretty decent.
> > >
> > > Would you other Puerh fanciers agree with this assessment?
> >
> > As a rule of thumb, yes, but sometimes I get lucky in New York's
> > Chinatown with a penny-a-gram Puerh.
>
> Well, the sample you kindly sent me some time back was surely not this
> penny-Puerh, was it?

No, I sent you something I think is much better: Silk Road's green Dai
Bamboo Puerh.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Alex digy.com9/23/04


>> While the tea tastes good and
>> smells fine in cup, there is a "funky" smell from the pot itself sometimes
>> that disturbs me. This pot is about 8 ounces, and is made of what appears
>> to
>> be rather porous clay, probably at a lower firing, judging from the
>> "clunk"
>> as opposed to "clink" of the tapped surface. It's a factory production. I
>> had bought it new and used it for Pu-erhs most of its life. This is a bit
>> discouraging.
>
> There are so few things in life that one can afford to just get rid of if
> one's expectations are not met, that if you have even slightiest dislike of
> your chahu - throw the damn thing away and treat yourself to a better one.

Buhu. I only mentioned it because I *do* indeed like my chahu. It's round as
a baseball and suggestive of a lotus flower bud. The fat little feet and the
largish upturned spout are elephantine. The only thing I don't know is
whether the lotus flower is the mother or the father.

> Or boil it for couple of hours and see if it helps, if you are frugal, as a
> true New Yorker should be (or a tinkerer). My guess you may have mold in
> large-pore chahus. NYT is a humid place and mold has a better chance there.
> BTW - its not precisely the topic, buy you may be interested to know what I
> was told by serious yixing people in China. The true test of yixing zisha
> pot short of chemical tests is the fact that yixing pot before it was ever
> used has a sort of metallic clank. After it is brought to contact with water
> the clank "muffles" a bit. If no such difference can be noted, suspicion
> should arise.

Aha. So, it's *not* the metalic clink, but the **change** to a clunk after
water meets the pot. I take it both the pre- and post-water test is done on
a completely dry pot, right? Very interesting indeed.

>It is also interesting to know that zisha means not "purple
> clay" but "purple sandstone" and raw zisha is a piece of clayey sandstone
> that needs to be broken and crushed first. These quartz sand particles that
> are very uniform in size are responsible for zisha's special porous
> qualities and mecahnical sturdiness. Because of that, a large-pore pot most
> probably cannot be made of yixing zisha. Your pot is probably made of other
> variaties of red clays of China (there are several).

It was made in Taiwan in a factory. It is not handworked, I'm sure. It is
humble, just like you and me, Sasha.

Michael

Alex digy.com9/23/04


>> While the tea tastes good and
>> smells fine in cup, there is a "funky" smell from the pot itself sometimes
>> that disturbs me. This pot is about 8 ounces, and is made of what appears
>> to
>> be rather porous clay, probably at a lower firing, judging from the
>> "clunk"
>> as opposed to "clink" of the tapped surface. It's a factory production. I
>> had bought it new and used it for Pu-erhs most of its life. This is a bit
>> discouraging.
>
> There are so few things in life that one can afford to just get rid of if
> one's expectations are not met, that if you have even slightiest dislike of
> your chahu - throw the damn thing away and treat yourself to a better one.

Buhu. I only mentioned it because I *do* indeed like my chahu. It's round as
a baseball and suggestive of a lotus flower bud. The fat little feet and the
largish upturned spout are elephantine. The only thing I don't know is
whether the lotus flower is the mother or the father.

> Or boil it for couple of hours and see if it helps, if you are frugal, as a
> true New Yorker should be (or a tinkerer). My guess you may have mold in
> large-pore chahus. NYT is a humid place and mold has a better chance there.
> BTW - its not precisely the topic, buy you may be interested to know what I
> was told by serious yixing people in China. The true test of yixing zisha
> pot short of chemical tests is the fact that yixing pot before it was ever
> used has a sort of metallic clank. After it is brought to contact with water
> the clank "muffles" a bit. If no such difference can be noted, suspicion
> should arise.

Aha. So, it's *not* the metalic clink, but the **change** to a clunk after
water meets the pot. I take it both the pre- and post-water test is done on
a completely dry pot, right? Very interesting indeed.

>It is also interesting to know that zisha means not "purple
> clay" but "purple sandstone" and raw zisha is a piece of clayey sandstone
> that needs to be broken and crushed first. These quartz sand particles that
> are very uniform in size are responsible for zisha's special porous
> qualities and mecahnical sturdiness. Because of that, a large-pore pot most
> probably cannot be made of yixing zisha. Your pot is probably made of other
> variaties of red clays of China (there are several).

It was made in Taiwan in a factory. It is not handworked, I'm sure. It is
humble, just like you and me, Sasha.

Michael

Alex digy.com9/23/04


>> While the tea tastes good and
>> smells fine in cup, there is a "funky" smell from the pot itself sometimes
>> that disturbs me. This pot is about 8 ounces, and is made of what appears
>> to
>> be rather porous clay, probably at a lower firing, judging from the
>> "clunk"
>> as opposed to "clink" of the tapped surface. It's a factory production. I
>> had bought it new and used it for Pu-erhs most of its life. This is a bit
>> discouraging.
>
> There are so few things in life that one can afford to just get rid of if
> one's expectations are not met, that if you have even slightiest dislike of
> your chahu - throw the damn thing away and treat yourself to a better one.

Buhu. I only mentioned it because I *do* indeed like my chahu. It's round as
a baseball and suggestive of a lotus flower bud. The fat little feet and the
largish upturned spout are elephantine. The only thing I don't know is
whether the lotus flower is the mother or the father.

> Or boil it for couple of hours and see if it helps, if you are frugal, as a
> true New Yorker should be (or a tinkerer). My guess you may have mold in
> large-pore chahus. NYT is a humid place and mold has a better chance there.
> BTW - its not precisely the topic, buy you may be interested to know what I
> was told by serious yixing people in China. The true test of yixing zisha
> pot short of chemical tests is the fact that yixing pot before it was ever
> used has a sort of metallic clank. After it is brought to contact with water
> the clank "muffles" a bit. If no such difference can be noted, suspicion
> should arise.

Aha. So, it's *not* the metalic clink, but the **change** to a clunk after
water meets the pot. I take it both the pre- and post-water test is done on
a completely dry pot, right? Very interesting indeed.

>It is also interesting to know that zisha means not "purple
> clay" but "purple sandstone" and raw zisha is a piece of clayey sandstone
> that needs to be broken and crushed first. These quartz sand particles that
> are very uniform in size are responsible for zisha's special porous
> qualities and mecahnical sturdiness. Because of that, a large-pore pot most
> probably cannot be made of yixing zisha. Your pot is probably made of other
> variaties of red clays of China (there are several).

It was made in Taiwan in a factory. It is not handworked, I'm sure. It is
humble, just like you and me, Sasha.

Michael

Another term I've seen is zishayao 'purple sand kiln'. Yixing is also
known for insulative property. I've seen Yixing pots of 30oz for
about $100. Yixing pottery also includes vases and urns but not
affordable.

Jim

"Alex Chaihorsky" > wrote in message .com>...
> It is also interesting to know that zisha means not "purple
> clay" but "purple sandstone" and raw zisha is a piece of clayey sandstone
> that needs to be broken and crushed first. These quartz sand particles that
> are very uniform in size are responsible for zisha's special porous
> qualities and mecahnical sturdiness. Because of that, a large-pore pot most
> probably cannot be made of yixing zisha. Your pot is probably made of other
> variaties of red clays of China (there are several).
>
> Sasha.

Another term I've seen is zishayao 'purple sand kiln'. Yixing is also
known for insulative property. I've seen Yixing pots of 30oz for
about $100. Yixing pottery also includes vases and urns but not
affordable.

Jim

"Alex Chaihorsky" > wrote in message .com>...
> It is also interesting to know that zisha means not "purple
> clay" but "purple sandstone" and raw zisha is a piece of clayey sandstone
> that needs to be broken and crushed first. These quartz sand particles that
> are very uniform in size are responsible for zisha's special porous
> qualities and mecahnical sturdiness. Because of that, a large-pore pot most
> probably cannot be made of yixing zisha. Your pot is probably made of other
> variaties of red clays of China (there are several).
>
> Sasha.

Lewis 9/24/04

> crymad > writes:
>
>> Lewis Perin wrote:
>>>
>>> crymad > writes:
>>>
>>>> "Doug Hazen, Jr." wrote:
>>>>> [...]
>>>>> First, I personally wouldn't buy Puer selling for less than
>>>>> $10 a 1/4 pound / 100 gms. For a little more money, you'll
>>>>> have a much better chance of getting a decent tea.
>>>>
>>>>> Though I've only had samples packages of each, both Imperial
>>>>> Tea Court's "Superior Puerh" black loose-leaf
>>>>> (http://www.imperialtea.com/AB1002000...&Product_ID=91
>>>>> &C
>>>>> ategory_ID=21) [...] seemed pretty decent.
>>>>
>>>> Would you other Puerh fanciers agree with this assessment?
>>>
>>> As a rule of thumb, yes, but sometimes I get lucky in New York's
>>> Chinatown with a penny-a-gram Puerh.
>>
>> Well, the sample you kindly sent me some time back was surely not this
>> penny-Puerh, was it?
>
> No, I sent you something I think is much better: Silk Road's green Dai
> Bamboo Puerh.


Lew,

You sent him SRT DBP, and he didn't love it? What is wrong with him? He is
beyond redemption. Send him to re-education camp.

Pu-erh!
Pu-erh!!

PU-ERH
*PU-ERH*

Hip, hip
HARRAH

Michael

Lewis 9/24/04

> crymad > writes:
>
>> Lewis Perin wrote:
>>>
>>> crymad > writes:
>>>
>>>> "Doug Hazen, Jr." wrote:
>>>>> [...]
>>>>> First, I personally wouldn't buy Puer selling for less than
>>>>> $10 a 1/4 pound / 100 gms. For a little more money, you'll
>>>>> have a much better chance of getting a decent tea.
>>>>
>>>>> Though I've only had samples packages of each, both Imperial
>>>>> Tea Court's "Superior Puerh" black loose-leaf
>>>>> (http://www.imperialtea.com/AB1002000...&Product_ID=91
>>>>> &C
>>>>> ategory_ID=21) [...] seemed pretty decent.
>>>>
>>>> Would you other Puerh fanciers agree with this assessment?
>>>
>>> As a rule of thumb, yes, but sometimes I get lucky in New York's
>>> Chinatown with a penny-a-gram Puerh.
>>
>> Well, the sample you kindly sent me some time back was surely not this
>> penny-Puerh, was it?
>
> No, I sent you something I think is much better: Silk Road's green Dai
> Bamboo Puerh.


Lew,

You sent him SRT DBP, and he didn't love it? What is wrong with him? He is
beyond redemption. Send him to re-education camp.

Pu-erh!
Pu-erh!!

PU-ERH
*PU-ERH*

Hip, hip
HARRAH

Michael

I never heard of puerh teas until now. I am going to find some to try
out. I came in to talk about gunpowder tea. I work in a gun range an
know what will open your tea. the new ruger 204 that goes 4225 feet per
second should make a explosion of leaves.

I may be acting silly. but I will be back to this ng. I don't have a
yak horn(yet) but I am going for that tea

I never heard of puerh teas until now. I am going to find some to try
out. I came in to talk about gunpowder tea. I work in a gun range an
know what will open your tea. the new ruger 204 that goes 4225 feet per
second should make a explosion of leaves.

I may be acting silly. but I will be back to this ng. I don't have a
yak horn(yet) but I am going for that tea

I bough the puerh tea and it is very drinkable. some times serch new
grops pays off.

thank you for enlightening me.

Michael Plant wrote:
>
> Lewis 9/24/04
>
> > crymad > writes:
> >
> >>
> >> Well, the sample you kindly sent me some time back was surely not this
> >> penny-Puerh, was it?
> >
> > No, I sent you something I think is much better: Silk Road's green Dai
> > Bamboo Puerh.
>
> Lew,
>
> You sent him SRT DBP, and he didn't love it?

My comments were that it was categorically the least disagreeable Puerh
I had ever tasted. As for love, I'm not always looking for life-long
commitment with teas. But wouldn't even go on a second date with Puerh.

> What is wrong with him? He is
> beyond redemption. Send him to re-education camp.

Yes, Puerh camp. With damp, moldy lodgings, unwashed clothes, and rank
outhouses.

--crymad

Michael Plant wrote:
> ...I'm not entirely sure that I'm not harming my teas' potential by using
> the particular pot I dedicated to Pu-erh. While the tea tastes good and
> smells fine in cup, there is a "funky" smell from the pot itself sometimes
> that disturbs me. This pot is about 8 ounces, and is made of what appears
to
> be rather porous clay, probably at a lower firing, judging from the
"clunk"
> as opposed to "clink" of the tapped surface. It's a factory production. I
> had bought it new and used it for Pu-erhs most of its life. This is a bit
> discouraging.

I certainly wouldn't discard a piece of pottery just because it smells. As
Sasha says, you can boil it for sterility, unless the relevant bugs crept in
from a Yellowstone hotsping or a deep-ocean thermal vent. If you want to
clean out the pores complete, just let it sit with warm, dilute bleach for
an hour. Then boil it in dilute tea solution to neutralize any residual
bleach, and start again.

If the bad smell isn't actually affecting the taste of tea, who cares
anyway? All true gastronomes know that the finest taste in the world is
durian, whose accompanying smell may be the worst: a living (though it
smells long-dead) embodiment of Taoist perfection.

-DM

Michael Plant wrote:
> ...I'm not entirely sure that I'm not harming my teas' potential by using
> the particular pot I dedicated to Pu-erh. While the tea tastes good and
> smells fine in cup, there is a "funky" smell from the pot itself sometimes
> that disturbs me. This pot is about 8 ounces, and is made of what appears
to
> be rather porous clay, probably at a lower firing, judging from the
"clunk"
> as opposed to "clink" of the tapped surface. It's a factory production. I
> had bought it new and used it for Pu-erhs most of its life. This is a bit
> discouraging.

I certainly wouldn't discard a piece of pottery just because it smells. As
Sasha says, you can boil it for sterility, unless the relevant bugs crept in
from a Yellowstone hotsping or a deep-ocean thermal vent. If you want to
clean out the pores complete, just let it sit with warm, dilute bleach for
an hour. Then boil it in dilute tea solution to neutralize any residual
bleach, and start again.

If the bad smell isn't actually affecting the taste of tea, who cares
anyway? All true gastronomes know that the finest taste in the world is
durian, whose accompanying smell may be the worst: a living (though it
smells long-dead) embodiment of Taoist perfection.

-DM

Dog Ma /25/04
reply w/o spam

> Michael Plant wrote:
>> ...I'm not entirely sure that I'm not harming my teas' potential by using
>> the particular pot I dedicated to Pu-erh. While the tea tastes good and
>> smells fine in cup, there is a "funky" smell from the pot itself sometimes
>> that disturbs me. This pot is about 8 ounces, and is made of what appears
> to
>> be rather porous clay, probably at a lower firing, judging from the
> "clunk"
>> as opposed to "clink" of the tapped surface. It's a factory production. I
>> had bought it new and used it for Pu-erhs most of its life. This is a bit
>> discouraging.
>
> I certainly wouldn't discard a piece of pottery just because it smells. As
> Sasha says, you can boil it for sterility, unless the relevant bugs crept in
> from a Yellowstone hotsping or a deep-ocean thermal vent. If you want to
> clean out the pores complete, just let it sit with warm, dilute bleach for
> an hour. Then boil it in dilute tea solution to neutralize any residual
> bleach, and start again.
>
> If the bad smell isn't actually affecting the taste of tea, who cares
> anyway? All true gastronomes know that the finest taste in the world is
> durian, whose accompanying smell may be the worst: a living (though it
> smells long-dead) embodiment of Taoist perfection.
>
> -DM
>
>
Here's the deal: Completely dry, the inside of the pot smells fresh and
fine. Leaves of most damp green Pu-erhs within it smell as they should;
however, the wet leaves of others smell strangely funky. Undoubtedly it's
the nature of the leaves. Call off the search. Crisis averted. Seriously, I
am/was (overly) concerned because some pretty extravagent (sp?) Pu-erhs are
being brewed therein, and it's the only Pu-erh pot I've got. At the moment.
And, as I said, it's a personal friend of mine.

I doubt very much that the true gastronomes you mention above would consider
the smell of durian in any way bad. Durian smells as durian is meant to
smell. Just god's way of separating the men from the boys. Obviously, bleach
is OK since you recommended it. Nonetheless something within me baulks.

Listening to Fischer-Dieskau sing Mahler's renditions of Ruekert and
drinking Tea Gallery's Espresso Oolong. There are times when both are
perfect, and this is the time.

Michael

Oh Falky you don't say! I broke the mammoth tusk the last time I used it on
a fossilized golden melon pu'er!

:")

Danny
"Falky foo" > wrote in message
. com...
> I hear yak horn reacts badly with all sorts of tea. Experts recommend
> chunks of fossilized mammoth tusk.
>
>
>
> "samarkand" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi Melinda,
> >
> > I'm not sure how others feel about using an oyster knife on pu'er, but I
> > personally refrain from using steel or metal object to break open my
> pu'er.
> > I use a yak's horn to crack open the pu'er into larger pieces, and a
> > japanese chopstick (wooden, unlacquered) to wriggle loose the leaves.
> >
> > "Melinda" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > OK, I bought a tuo cha (mini) from Upton awhile back and that was
> > > fairly smooth, and right now what I have in the kitchen is a tuo cha
> > > from my local Asian market that is...well, lemme just say that I'm
> > > really not GETTING this whole Puer love thing. Could someone
> > > (::cough:: Mike and Michael::cough: (or more than one someone) who
> > > is knowledgeable recommend specifically to me a type (name, where to
> > > get, specifics) that will be the best "introduction" to the world of
> > > puer for me..I want to try again but I want to know that what I'm
> > > drinking is representative of puer as a whole before I just bag it and
> > > decide puer isn't for me. Something that's financially reasonable
> > > would be nice (like under $10 or so? Under $15?) I really want to give
> > > this a fair shake since I hear others' enjoyment of it. I'm not
> > > positive what kind of puer I have from the Asia market...it was
> > > inexpensive of course, and in a green and white box.
> > >
> > > Oh BTW, I found that an oyster knife seems to work well to break
> > > chunks off...I seem to remember reading that someone was looking for a
> > > way to do that.
> > >
> > > Thanks very much for helping out the puer newbie.
> > >
> > > Melinda
> >
> >
>
>

"crymad" > wrote in message
...
> Would a Japanese box lathe for dried bonito work? The blades on some
> can be adjusted, so you're not limited to producing only paper thin
> shavings. A drawer under the blade collects the shavings and slides out
> for easy retrieval. A lovely artifact for all object fetishists.
>
> I'm compelled to ask, though: If drinking Puerh demands brute strength
> and hand tools, is it really something to be exalted? Seriously.
>
> --crymad

Oh yes, I wonder about that too, along with deep sea fishing - braving all
that harsh elements to get fish! & the tedious process a french chef has to
work through to get the stock just right! Or the number of laborious years
a sushi apprentice has to endure before he is allowed to wield the knife! Or
the untiring search for something one really enjoys! Hmm...to each his own
ambrosia or poison, isn't it?

"crymad" > wrote in message
...
> Would a Japanese box lathe for dried bonito work? The blades on some
> can be adjusted, so you're not limited to producing only paper thin
> shavings. A drawer under the blade collects the shavings and slides out
> for easy retrieval. A lovely artifact for all object fetishists.
>
> I'm compelled to ask, though: If drinking Puerh demands brute strength
> and hand tools, is it really something to be exalted? Seriously.
>
> --crymad

Oh yes, I wonder about that too, along with deep sea fishing - braving all
that harsh elements to get fish! & the tedious process a french chef has to
work through to get the stock just right! Or the number of laborious years
a sushi apprentice has to endure before he is allowed to wield the knife! Or
the untiring search for something one really enjoys! Hmm...to each his own
ambrosia or poison, isn't it?