Tea (rec.drink.tea) Discussion relating to tea, the world's second most consumed beverage (after water), made by infusing or boiling the leaves of the tea plant (C. sinensis or close relatives) in water.

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  #41 (permalink)   Report Post  
Michael Plant
 
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Default Chinese tea vs. Japanese tea

Sean 4/28/04


> DLG wrote:
>> I think I got a strong habit in Chinese tea drinking, and don't think
>> I could be able to give comprehensive comments on Japanese tea. I
>> think one could easily find some difference after a brief research.

>
> Like Rich, I've lived in Japan (but never China) and so got into the
> habit of drinking Japanese green tea. (I'll have to check out
> mellowmonk.com). About the only Chinese green tea that I've tried
> (knowingly, that is) yielded an almost brown infusion from dark green
> leaves. I thought it was either a misrepresentation, or a style of
> green tea that's more popular among the Chinese. I've heard that green
> tea isn't that popular in China (though I'm not disputing that they
> produce some fine ones, and I don't want to get into a
> Chinese-vs.-Japanese-green tea debate) but it is ironic that even in
> Japan most of the mass-market green teas, whether bagged, loose, or
> ready to drink, come from China now. That according to the proprieter
> of a Japanese market I visit occasionally -- for sake, natto,
> shishamo, and all the other wonderful things from Japan I can't seem
> to live without since moving back to the States.



Sean,

Regarding the "Chinese-vs-Japanese debate, I say No contest in the sense of
"why contest?" I enjoy Japanese and Chinese greens, with my experience and
overall preference leaning toward the latter. You did not, it sounds like,
experience a good Chinese green tea. Now, at the beginning of May, is your
grand opportunity. I strongly suggest a Bi Lo Chun or a Long Jin (Dragon
Well) of good quality. These, *I* believe, are not that far removed from the
Japanese style. They both offer a visual experience at once stunning and
quieting. You will see. You can treat them as you would a fine Sencha or
even better, if your Chinese tea is of really high quality, as you would a
Gyokuro. If it is difficult for you to get these, please contact me off
line, and I'll try to help.

It is my understanding -- we call for brighter lights here -- that in the
green tea growing regions of China, which my map shows to be extensive,
green tea is preferred. I have it on good authority that Pu-erh is becoming
increasingly popular throughout China, and that in the Fujian, Taiwan, and
maybe Guong Dong areas of China, Oolong is the style of choice.

I read Livio's last post. Like Jesus, in James' epistle....

Michael


  #42 (permalink)   Report Post  
Michael Plant
 
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Default Chinese tea vs. Japanese tea

Sean 4/28/04


> DLG wrote:
>> I think I got a strong habit in Chinese tea drinking, and don't think
>> I could be able to give comprehensive comments on Japanese tea. I
>> think one could easily find some difference after a brief research.

>
> Like Rich, I've lived in Japan (but never China) and so got into the
> habit of drinking Japanese green tea. (I'll have to check out
> mellowmonk.com). About the only Chinese green tea that I've tried
> (knowingly, that is) yielded an almost brown infusion from dark green
> leaves. I thought it was either a misrepresentation, or a style of
> green tea that's more popular among the Chinese. I've heard that green
> tea isn't that popular in China (though I'm not disputing that they
> produce some fine ones, and I don't want to get into a
> Chinese-vs.-Japanese-green tea debate) but it is ironic that even in
> Japan most of the mass-market green teas, whether bagged, loose, or
> ready to drink, come from China now. That according to the proprieter
> of a Japanese market I visit occasionally -- for sake, natto,
> shishamo, and all the other wonderful things from Japan I can't seem
> to live without since moving back to the States.



Sean,

Regarding the "Chinese-vs-Japanese debate, I say No contest in the sense of
"why contest?" I enjoy Japanese and Chinese greens, with my experience and
overall preference leaning toward the latter. You did not, it sounds like,
experience a good Chinese green tea. Now, at the beginning of May, is your
grand opportunity. I strongly suggest a Bi Lo Chun or a Long Jin (Dragon
Well) of good quality. These, *I* believe, are not that far removed from the
Japanese style. They both offer a visual experience at once stunning and
quieting. You will see. You can treat them as you would a fine Sencha or
even better, if your Chinese tea is of really high quality, as you would a
Gyokuro. If it is difficult for you to get these, please contact me off
line, and I'll try to help.

It is my understanding -- we call for brighter lights here -- that in the
green tea growing regions of China, which my map shows to be extensive,
green tea is preferred. I have it on good authority that Pu-erh is becoming
increasingly popular throughout China, and that in the Fujian, Taiwan, and
maybe Guong Dong areas of China, Oolong is the style of choice.

I read Livio's last post. Like Jesus, in James' epistle....

Michael


  #43 (permalink)   Report Post  
Sean McEntee
 
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Default Chinese tea vs. Japanese tea

crymad wrote:
>What exactly do you mean by "mass-market" loose tea? Loose tea
>available in groceries and department stores? Because this tea is

most
>assuredly Japanese in origin.


By "mass market" I was referring to the major brands sold by big
Japanese food companies, as opposed to teas available only regionally
or in high-priced specialty shops. A lot of the lower-priced teas are
from China and only packaged in Japan: The Japanese address on the
package may just mean that the company's offices are headquartered
there. Just as many teas sold as "Shizuoka teas" were grown elsewhere
and processed (or maybe even only packaged) at a plant in Shizuoka.
(And just as a lot of wines bearing the name "Napa" weren't made
there, only "cellared" in Napa.) I'm sure there is a long list of
"specs"--color and shape of the leaves and whatnot--that the Japanese
company hands over to the processor, the same as if they were having
memory chips made.

Mind you, I'm not trying to cast aspersions on a tea just because it's
from China; in fact, the best greens this wide world may very well
come from there. But it is a shame that the big companies that sell
tea in Japan are putting small growers out of business there by
switching to Chinese sources as a cost-saving measure.

Michael Plant wrote:
> Regarding the "Chinese-vs-Japanese debate, I say No contest in the

sense of
> "why contest?" I enjoy Japanese and Chinese greens, with my experience and
> overall preference leaning toward the latter. You did not, it sounds like,
> experience a good Chinese green tea.


You're right. I was simply revealing my ignorance with regard to the
popularity of green tea among the Chinese, as well as my own limited
experience with their greens. Thank you kindly for the
recommendations; I believe I'll begin by seeking out a few at one of
the Asian markets in the area. Ah, but the world of green tea is such
a wide and diverse one!
  #44 (permalink)   Report Post  
Sean McEntee
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chinese tea vs. Japanese tea

crymad wrote:
>What exactly do you mean by "mass-market" loose tea? Loose tea
>available in groceries and department stores? Because this tea is

most
>assuredly Japanese in origin.


By "mass market" I was referring to the major brands sold by big
Japanese food companies, as opposed to teas available only regionally
or in high-priced specialty shops. A lot of the lower-priced teas are
from China and only packaged in Japan: The Japanese address on the
package may just mean that the company's offices are headquartered
there. Just as many teas sold as "Shizuoka teas" were grown elsewhere
and processed (or maybe even only packaged) at a plant in Shizuoka.
(And just as a lot of wines bearing the name "Napa" weren't made
there, only "cellared" in Napa.) I'm sure there is a long list of
"specs"--color and shape of the leaves and whatnot--that the Japanese
company hands over to the processor, the same as if they were having
memory chips made.

Mind you, I'm not trying to cast aspersions on a tea just because it's
from China; in fact, the best greens this wide world may very well
come from there. But it is a shame that the big companies that sell
tea in Japan are putting small growers out of business there by
switching to Chinese sources as a cost-saving measure.

Michael Plant wrote:
> Regarding the "Chinese-vs-Japanese debate, I say No contest in the

sense of
> "why contest?" I enjoy Japanese and Chinese greens, with my experience and
> overall preference leaning toward the latter. You did not, it sounds like,
> experience a good Chinese green tea.


You're right. I was simply revealing my ignorance with regard to the
popularity of green tea among the Chinese, as well as my own limited
experience with their greens. Thank you kindly for the
recommendations; I believe I'll begin by seeking out a few at one of
the Asian markets in the area. Ah, but the world of green tea is such
a wide and diverse one!
  #45 (permalink)   Report Post  
crymad
 
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Default Chinese tea vs. Japanese tea



Sean McEntee wrote:
>
> crymad wrote:
> >What exactly do you mean by "mass-market" loose tea? Loose tea
> >available in groceries and department stores? Because this tea is

> most
> >assuredly Japanese in origin.

>
> By "mass market" I was referring to the major brands sold by big
> Japanese food companies, as opposed to teas available only regionally
> or in high-priced specialty shops. A lot of the lower-priced teas are
> from China and only packaged in Japan: The Japanese address on the
> package may just mean that the company's offices are headquartered
> there.


Please give an example of a major brand of loose tea sold by a big
Japanese food company.

--crymad


  #46 (permalink)   Report Post  
crymad
 
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Default Chinese tea vs. Japanese tea



Sean McEntee wrote:
>
> crymad wrote:
> >What exactly do you mean by "mass-market" loose tea? Loose tea
> >available in groceries and department stores? Because this tea is

> most
> >assuredly Japanese in origin.

>
> By "mass market" I was referring to the major brands sold by big
> Japanese food companies, as opposed to teas available only regionally
> or in high-priced specialty shops. A lot of the lower-priced teas are
> from China and only packaged in Japan: The Japanese address on the
> package may just mean that the company's offices are headquartered
> there.


Please give an example of a major brand of loose tea sold by a big
Japanese food company.

--crymad
  #47 (permalink)   Report Post  
Blair P. Houghton
 
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Default Chinese tea vs. Japanese tea

crymad > wrote:
>Please give an example of a major brand of loose tea sold by a big
>Japanese food company.


Major here or major in Japan?

--Blair
"Doesn't Lipton do Japanese teas?"
  #48 (permalink)   Report Post  
Blair P. Houghton
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chinese tea vs. Japanese tea

crymad > wrote:
>Please give an example of a major brand of loose tea sold by a big
>Japanese food company.


Major here or major in Japan?

--Blair
"Doesn't Lipton do Japanese teas?"
  #49 (permalink)   Report Post  
Nigel at Teacraft
 
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Default Chinese tea vs. Japanese tea

crymad > wrote in message >...

> Please give an example of a major brand of loose tea sold by a big
> Japanese food company.


Mitsui, for one, have set up many Japanese style tea factories in
China using Japanese clones, Japanese steaming method of enzyme
inactivation, Japanese process equipment (now made in China) and
produce Japanese style tea for import into Japan.

Nigel at Teacraft
  #50 (permalink)   Report Post  
Nigel at Teacraft
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chinese tea vs. Japanese tea

crymad > wrote in message >...

> Please give an example of a major brand of loose tea sold by a big
> Japanese food company.


Mitsui, for one, have set up many Japanese style tea factories in
China using Japanese clones, Japanese steaming method of enzyme
inactivation, Japanese process equipment (now made in China) and
produce Japanese style tea for import into Japan.

Nigel at Teacraft


  #51 (permalink)   Report Post  
crymad
 
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Default Chinese tea vs. Japanese tea



Nigel at Teacraft wrote:
>
> crymad > wrote in message >...
>
> > Please give an example of a major brand of loose tea sold by a big
> > Japanese food company.

>
> Mitsui, for one, have set up many Japanese style tea factories in
> China using Japanese clones, Japanese steaming method of enzyme
> inactivation, Japanese process equipment (now made in China) and
> produce Japanese style tea for import into Japan.


Does Mitsui/Nittoh sell retail loose-leaf green tea? I'm not aware of
any. I'm digging through the Mitsui company homepage trying to get a
breakdown of their product offerings, but the links aren't working
properly for me at the moment.

That Chinese tea is imported into Japan is indisputable, though. Here
is an article discussing the topic:

http://www.lookjapan.com/LBsc/02SeptFacts.htm

According to the article, Japan had a 2001 domestic green tea production
of a little over 90,000 tons. Imported green tea from China that year
totaled 17,700 tons. Of that 17,700 tons, approximately 8000 tons were
used in the production of prepackaged tea drinks -- tea beverages in
bottles and cans. Which leaves us with 10,000 tons unaccountable for;
the article hints that some of this Chinese product is probably used as
filler for mixing with domestic tea to keep prices down. The dining
industry is another possible endpoint for some of this Chinese tea,
either mixed or uncut, but the article doesn't address this.

At any rate, to suggest that Japan is awash in washi bags of Chinese tea
posing as domestic beauties to be sold off to unsuspecting consumers is
preposterous.

--crymad
  #52 (permalink)   Report Post  
crymad
 
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Default Chinese tea vs. Japanese tea



Nigel at Teacraft wrote:
>
> crymad > wrote in message >...
>
> > Please give an example of a major brand of loose tea sold by a big
> > Japanese food company.

>
> Mitsui, for one, have set up many Japanese style tea factories in
> China using Japanese clones, Japanese steaming method of enzyme
> inactivation, Japanese process equipment (now made in China) and
> produce Japanese style tea for import into Japan.


Does Mitsui/Nittoh sell retail loose-leaf green tea? I'm not aware of
any. I'm digging through the Mitsui company homepage trying to get a
breakdown of their product offerings, but the links aren't working
properly for me at the moment.

That Chinese tea is imported into Japan is indisputable, though. Here
is an article discussing the topic:

http://www.lookjapan.com/LBsc/02SeptFacts.htm

According to the article, Japan had a 2001 domestic green tea production
of a little over 90,000 tons. Imported green tea from China that year
totaled 17,700 tons. Of that 17,700 tons, approximately 8000 tons were
used in the production of prepackaged tea drinks -- tea beverages in
bottles and cans. Which leaves us with 10,000 tons unaccountable for;
the article hints that some of this Chinese product is probably used as
filler for mixing with domestic tea to keep prices down. The dining
industry is another possible endpoint for some of this Chinese tea,
either mixed or uncut, but the article doesn't address this.

At any rate, to suggest that Japan is awash in washi bags of Chinese tea
posing as domestic beauties to be sold off to unsuspecting consumers is
preposterous.

--crymad
  #53 (permalink)   Report Post  
cc
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chinese tea vs. Japanese tea


"crymad" > wrote in message

> Does Mitsui/Nittoh sell retail loose-leaf green tea?


They do, prepacked leaves in supermarkets and more often combinis. For the
equivalent product, they are not cheaper than the specialty shops. I don't
believe they cheat on the origine. In loose leaves, Chinese teas (sold as
Chinese) tend to be more expensive than Japanese ones.
The price of Japanese teas has droped a lot because of deflation. The
lower-end loose leaves you get in discount shops are sold 200yen per 100 g,
and sometimes less. They are grown and produced in Uji (I know people from
there, they are not running a fictionnal tea plantation for tourists). Not
all Japanese production is top grade gyokuro. The cheaper teas you can get,
if you are really counting your yens are lower-end "made in Japan"
houji-cha, kona-cha and genmaicha (it's written on some packs that the
popcorns are grown in China).

I guess Mitsui and Suntory are producing tea in China mostly because they
aim the Chinese market and maybe global exports (shrinking Japanese market
is not worth the effort). And there, their interest is to sell "Japanese
style tea" to differenciate from competitors.

> According to the article, Japan had a 2001 domestic green tea production
> of a little over 90,000 tons. Imported green tea from China that year
> totaled 17,700 tons. Of that 17,700 tons, approximately 8000 tons were
> used in the production of prepackaged tea drinks -- tea beverages in
> bottles and cans. Which leaves us with 10,000 tons unaccountable for;


Chinese tea is sold for itself. I don't know when you left Japan, Crymad,
but at least in cities, the taste of people has evoluated and lifestyle for
food and drinks is getting internationalized. People are used to foreign
imports, half of them from China. It is done openly.
Local supermarkets offer a choice of wulongs, flower teas, tuo chas and now
greens too are getting very popular. Of course, department stores always had
Chinese tea corners and they are specialty shops of Chinese products. In the
last ten years, a number of Asian tea rooms have opened averywhere, and they
also sell Chinese teas of average to top categories. For me, it's getting
easier everyday to shop for top-grade Chinese teas.

In your figure, do they consider wulong and puer as green ? In many stores
they do, they classify "kocha" and "sencha" (on shelves, on receipts), I
suspect they count the same way. In such case 10, 000 tons seems little, but
I don't know the share of Taiwan. I think globally, the amount of Chinese
teas (Taiwan + China) is equivalent to that of Japanese teas.

But there is no "false Japanese tea" here. Anyway, it's a classical hoax.
Also heard it about rice (that is supposed to be mass-produced in Australia
and relabelled in Japan), about artisanal silk hand-made kimonos imported
from Taiwan mass-factories, all hand-made potteries or objects being false
cheapies, etc. That was probably published in a cheap tourist guidebook.
Tons of foreigners just arrived in Japan tell you that.
It's not that fraud doesn't exist in Japan, there are cases regularly, like
anywhere else on earth. But massive "cheating" on quality products, I think
the Japanese consumers would be the last ones to allow it.

Kuri

  #54 (permalink)   Report Post  
cc
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chinese tea vs. Japanese tea


"crymad" > wrote in message

> Does Mitsui/Nittoh sell retail loose-leaf green tea?


They do, prepacked leaves in supermarkets and more often combinis. For the
equivalent product, they are not cheaper than the specialty shops. I don't
believe they cheat on the origine. In loose leaves, Chinese teas (sold as
Chinese) tend to be more expensive than Japanese ones.
The price of Japanese teas has droped a lot because of deflation. The
lower-end loose leaves you get in discount shops are sold 200yen per 100 g,
and sometimes less. They are grown and produced in Uji (I know people from
there, they are not running a fictionnal tea plantation for tourists). Not
all Japanese production is top grade gyokuro. The cheaper teas you can get,
if you are really counting your yens are lower-end "made in Japan"
houji-cha, kona-cha and genmaicha (it's written on some packs that the
popcorns are grown in China).

I guess Mitsui and Suntory are producing tea in China mostly because they
aim the Chinese market and maybe global exports (shrinking Japanese market
is not worth the effort). And there, their interest is to sell "Japanese
style tea" to differenciate from competitors.

> According to the article, Japan had a 2001 domestic green tea production
> of a little over 90,000 tons. Imported green tea from China that year
> totaled 17,700 tons. Of that 17,700 tons, approximately 8000 tons were
> used in the production of prepackaged tea drinks -- tea beverages in
> bottles and cans. Which leaves us with 10,000 tons unaccountable for;


Chinese tea is sold for itself. I don't know when you left Japan, Crymad,
but at least in cities, the taste of people has evoluated and lifestyle for
food and drinks is getting internationalized. People are used to foreign
imports, half of them from China. It is done openly.
Local supermarkets offer a choice of wulongs, flower teas, tuo chas and now
greens too are getting very popular. Of course, department stores always had
Chinese tea corners and they are specialty shops of Chinese products. In the
last ten years, a number of Asian tea rooms have opened averywhere, and they
also sell Chinese teas of average to top categories. For me, it's getting
easier everyday to shop for top-grade Chinese teas.

In your figure, do they consider wulong and puer as green ? In many stores
they do, they classify "kocha" and "sencha" (on shelves, on receipts), I
suspect they count the same way. In such case 10, 000 tons seems little, but
I don't know the share of Taiwan. I think globally, the amount of Chinese
teas (Taiwan + China) is equivalent to that of Japanese teas.

But there is no "false Japanese tea" here. Anyway, it's a classical hoax.
Also heard it about rice (that is supposed to be mass-produced in Australia
and relabelled in Japan), about artisanal silk hand-made kimonos imported
from Taiwan mass-factories, all hand-made potteries or objects being false
cheapies, etc. That was probably published in a cheap tourist guidebook.
Tons of foreigners just arrived in Japan tell you that.
It's not that fraud doesn't exist in Japan, there are cases regularly, like
anywhere else on earth. But massive "cheating" on quality products, I think
the Japanese consumers would be the last ones to allow it.

Kuri

  #55 (permalink)   Report Post  
crymad
 
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Default Chinese tea vs. Japanese tea



cc wrote:
>
> "crymad" > wrote in message
>
> > Does Mitsui/Nittoh sell retail loose-leaf green tea?

>
> They do, prepacked leaves in supermarkets and more often combinis. For the
> equivalent product, they are not cheaper than the specialty shops.


This is loose tea that must be prepared in a tea pot, and not tea bags?

> > According to the article, Japan had a 2001 domestic green tea production
> > of a little over 90,000 tons. Imported green tea from China that year
> > totaled 17,700 tons. Of that 17,700 tons, approximately 8000 tons were
> > used in the production of prepackaged tea drinks -- tea beverages in
> > bottles and cans. Which leaves us with 10,000 tons unaccountable for;

>
> Chinese tea is sold for itself. I don't know when you left Japan, Crymad,
> but at least in cities, the taste of people has evoluated and lifestyle for
> food and drinks is getting internationalized.


I left Japan just a few years ago. Is Chinese tea really that much more
popular now?

>
> In your figure, do they consider wulong and puer as green ?


That is a good question. I kind of doubt it, though, as the article
addressed foreign equivalents to Japanese tea.

>
> But there is no "false Japanese tea" here. Anyway, it's a classical hoax.
> Also heard it about rice (that is supposed to be mass-produced in Australia
> and relabelled in Japan), about artisanal silk hand-made kimonos imported
> from Taiwan mass-factories, all hand-made potteries or objects being false
> cheapies, etc. That was probably published in a cheap tourist guidebook.
> Tons of foreigners just arrived in Japan tell you that.
> It's not that fraud doesn't exist in Japan, there are cases regularly, like
> anywhere else on earth. But massive "cheating" on quality products, I think
> the Japanese consumers would be the last ones to allow it.


My thoughts exactly. Chinese tea has found its way into bottles and
cans, and perhaps even into low-grade tea as filler. But quality tea,
the kind we here on this group concern ourselves with, remains home
grown.

By the way, Kuri, are you Japanese?

--crymad


  #56 (permalink)   Report Post  
crymad
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chinese tea vs. Japanese tea



cc wrote:
>
> "crymad" > wrote in message
>
> > Does Mitsui/Nittoh sell retail loose-leaf green tea?

>
> They do, prepacked leaves in supermarkets and more often combinis. For the
> equivalent product, they are not cheaper than the specialty shops.


This is loose tea that must be prepared in a tea pot, and not tea bags?

> > According to the article, Japan had a 2001 domestic green tea production
> > of a little over 90,000 tons. Imported green tea from China that year
> > totaled 17,700 tons. Of that 17,700 tons, approximately 8000 tons were
> > used in the production of prepackaged tea drinks -- tea beverages in
> > bottles and cans. Which leaves us with 10,000 tons unaccountable for;

>
> Chinese tea is sold for itself. I don't know when you left Japan, Crymad,
> but at least in cities, the taste of people has evoluated and lifestyle for
> food and drinks is getting internationalized.


I left Japan just a few years ago. Is Chinese tea really that much more
popular now?

>
> In your figure, do they consider wulong and puer as green ?


That is a good question. I kind of doubt it, though, as the article
addressed foreign equivalents to Japanese tea.

>
> But there is no "false Japanese tea" here. Anyway, it's a classical hoax.
> Also heard it about rice (that is supposed to be mass-produced in Australia
> and relabelled in Japan), about artisanal silk hand-made kimonos imported
> from Taiwan mass-factories, all hand-made potteries or objects being false
> cheapies, etc. That was probably published in a cheap tourist guidebook.
> Tons of foreigners just arrived in Japan tell you that.
> It's not that fraud doesn't exist in Japan, there are cases regularly, like
> anywhere else on earth. But massive "cheating" on quality products, I think
> the Japanese consumers would be the last ones to allow it.


My thoughts exactly. Chinese tea has found its way into bottles and
cans, and perhaps even into low-grade tea as filler. But quality tea,
the kind we here on this group concern ourselves with, remains home
grown.

By the way, Kuri, are you Japanese?

--crymad
  #57 (permalink)   Report Post  
cc
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chinese tea vs. Japanese tea


"crymad" > wrote in message

> > > Does Mitsui/Nittoh sell retail loose-leaf green tea?

> >
> > They do, prepacked leaves in supermarkets and more often combinis. For

the
> > equivalent product, they are not cheaper than the specialty shops.

>
> This is loose tea that must be prepared in a tea pot, and not tea bags?


Loose or bags or instant. Even "junk" brands give the choice. As anyway most
people will use a teapot regardless it's bagged or not, and they can fill
non-weaven bags with the loose leaves.
Mistui is not a major in real tea. I was looking for it today, no shop in
the area has that brand. I don't remember where I've seen it, they are
probably linked with a chain of combinis.

> I left Japan just a few years ago. Is Chinese tea really that much more
> popular now?


There are 2 things : about 4 or 5 years ago, the barriers to Chinese imports
of food have disappeared. In 6 month time, 30 to 60% of supermarket/market
products have been from China and labelled as such -after a little cheating
at the start. At the same time, Western style discount supermarket have
opened. Also the average price of food have drop of 50% (tons of shotengai
shops and little farms made bankrupcy...). In Osaka, the change was
spectacular. There was before and after. The people that would say "I buy
only Japanese products." seem to have disappeared or they moved to live in
the woods. You can no longer expect selling an ordinary product more
expensive just because it's written "made in Japan" on it. Now, expensive
products have to be special in quality.

The other reason is everything linked to Chinese culture is extremely
fashionable. That also came in the last 5 years. NHK education channel
proposes more Chinese culture programs than ever (several ones about tea).
Eikaiwa industry propose Chinese conversation classes. Even universities had
to increase the number of classes of Chinese as the students asked it.
"Asian cafes" (specialised in Chinese tea) are opening in trendy
areas -while the number of Japanese tearooms is dropping (I'm not sure many
are left outside historical tourists area like in Kyoto or Nara).
Also, if you browse the internet, you will find that doing exclusively
Japanese tea ceremony is now a bit alt-modish. The young tea students still
learn it -I'm talking about those that are serious in their interest for tea
not the posers that kill time expensively- but they also study about other
teas to become "tea sommelier". A bit like flower-arrangement has stolen
most
of the students from dusty ikebana schools. Of course, Chinese teas and
serving manners are a major part of the new tea studies.

> By the way, Kuri, are you Japanese?


No, I'm French. I've lived in Osaka for about 7 years.
Where are your relatives from ? Could they send you Shincha ?
I've heard about that "anti-terrorist law" on TV the other day. It is an
American domestic law
to control imports, and the Japanese don't seem to have decided what to do.
Several post-office directors interviewed said they didn't know how to
register people or couldn't do it. They didn't say if they accepted the
parcels anyway and if the US customs accepted or rejected them.
This week, I'm enjoying the Kagoshima Nouveau (I guess the boat from China
delivers there first, so it arrives earlier). I'll get of the new Uji this
week-end, and also a new crystal pot to observe the beautiful color of the
leaves.

Kuri

  #58 (permalink)   Report Post  
cc
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chinese tea vs. Japanese tea


"crymad" > wrote in message

> > > Does Mitsui/Nittoh sell retail loose-leaf green tea?

> >
> > They do, prepacked leaves in supermarkets and more often combinis. For

the
> > equivalent product, they are not cheaper than the specialty shops.

>
> This is loose tea that must be prepared in a tea pot, and not tea bags?


Loose or bags or instant. Even "junk" brands give the choice. As anyway most
people will use a teapot regardless it's bagged or not, and they can fill
non-weaven bags with the loose leaves.
Mistui is not a major in real tea. I was looking for it today, no shop in
the area has that brand. I don't remember where I've seen it, they are
probably linked with a chain of combinis.

> I left Japan just a few years ago. Is Chinese tea really that much more
> popular now?


There are 2 things : about 4 or 5 years ago, the barriers to Chinese imports
of food have disappeared. In 6 month time, 30 to 60% of supermarket/market
products have been from China and labelled as such -after a little cheating
at the start. At the same time, Western style discount supermarket have
opened. Also the average price of food have drop of 50% (tons of shotengai
shops and little farms made bankrupcy...). In Osaka, the change was
spectacular. There was before and after. The people that would say "I buy
only Japanese products." seem to have disappeared or they moved to live in
the woods. You can no longer expect selling an ordinary product more
expensive just because it's written "made in Japan" on it. Now, expensive
products have to be special in quality.

The other reason is everything linked to Chinese culture is extremely
fashionable. That also came in the last 5 years. NHK education channel
proposes more Chinese culture programs than ever (several ones about tea).
Eikaiwa industry propose Chinese conversation classes. Even universities had
to increase the number of classes of Chinese as the students asked it.
"Asian cafes" (specialised in Chinese tea) are opening in trendy
areas -while the number of Japanese tearooms is dropping (I'm not sure many
are left outside historical tourists area like in Kyoto or Nara).
Also, if you browse the internet, you will find that doing exclusively
Japanese tea ceremony is now a bit alt-modish. The young tea students still
learn it -I'm talking about those that are serious in their interest for tea
not the posers that kill time expensively- but they also study about other
teas to become "tea sommelier". A bit like flower-arrangement has stolen
most
of the students from dusty ikebana schools. Of course, Chinese teas and
serving manners are a major part of the new tea studies.

> By the way, Kuri, are you Japanese?


No, I'm French. I've lived in Osaka for about 7 years.
Where are your relatives from ? Could they send you Shincha ?
I've heard about that "anti-terrorist law" on TV the other day. It is an
American domestic law
to control imports, and the Japanese don't seem to have decided what to do.
Several post-office directors interviewed said they didn't know how to
register people or couldn't do it. They didn't say if they accepted the
parcels anyway and if the US customs accepted or rejected them.
This week, I'm enjoying the Kagoshima Nouveau (I guess the boat from China
delivers there first, so it arrives earlier). I'll get of the new Uji this
week-end, and also a new crystal pot to observe the beautiful color of the
leaves.

Kuri

  #59 (permalink)   Report Post  
Space Cowboy
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chinese tea vs. Japanese tea

Hey Kuri,

I enjoy your insights from Japan. A crystal teapot, that's something I never seen.

Jim

"cc" > wrote in message >...
snip ...
> This week, I'm enjoying the Kagoshima Nouveau (I guess the boat from China
> delivers there first, so it arrives earlier). I'll get of the new Uji this
> week-end, and also a new crystal pot to observe the beautiful color of the
> leaves.
>
> Kuri

  #60 (permalink)   Report Post  
Space Cowboy
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chinese tea vs. Japanese tea

Hey Kuri,

I enjoy your insights from Japan. A crystal teapot, that's something I never seen.

Jim

"cc" > wrote in message >...
snip ...
> This week, I'm enjoying the Kagoshima Nouveau (I guess the boat from China
> delivers there first, so it arrives earlier). I'll get of the new Uji this
> week-end, and also a new crystal pot to observe the beautiful color of the
> leaves.
>
> Kuri



  #61 (permalink)   Report Post  
crymad
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chinese tea vs. Japanese tea



cc wrote:
>
> "crymad" > wrote in message
>
> > By the way, Kuri, are you Japanese?

>
> No, I'm French. I've lived in Osaka for about 7 years.
> Where are your relatives from ? Could they send you Shincha ?


My wife's family is in the heart of Kyushu tea country. Sadly, they
haven't been able to send us any tea this year.

> I've heard about that "anti-terrorist law" on TV the other day. It is an
> American domestic law
> to control imports, and the Japanese don't seem to have decided what to do.
> Several post-office directors interviewed said they didn't know how to
> register people or couldn't do it. They didn't say if they accepted the
> parcels anyway and if the US customs accepted or rejected them.


Yes, these postal difficulties are the cause of our tealessness.
Apparently, homemade foodstuffs are not subject to these "anti-terroist"
postal regulations. The hard part is just getting my wife's family to
lie on the customs declaration forms.

> This week, I'm enjoying the Kagoshima Nouveau (I guess the boat from China
> delivers there first, so it arrives earlier).


Haha. Those unscrupulous tea companies have to keep up appearances. It
is still Japan, after all.

--crymad
  #62 (permalink)   Report Post  
crymad
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chinese tea vs. Japanese tea



cc wrote:
>
> "crymad" > wrote in message
>
> > By the way, Kuri, are you Japanese?

>
> No, I'm French. I've lived in Osaka for about 7 years.
> Where are your relatives from ? Could they send you Shincha ?


My wife's family is in the heart of Kyushu tea country. Sadly, they
haven't been able to send us any tea this year.

> I've heard about that "anti-terrorist law" on TV the other day. It is an
> American domestic law
> to control imports, and the Japanese don't seem to have decided what to do.
> Several post-office directors interviewed said they didn't know how to
> register people or couldn't do it. They didn't say if they accepted the
> parcels anyway and if the US customs accepted or rejected them.


Yes, these postal difficulties are the cause of our tealessness.
Apparently, homemade foodstuffs are not subject to these "anti-terroist"
postal regulations. The hard part is just getting my wife's family to
lie on the customs declaration forms.

> This week, I'm enjoying the Kagoshima Nouveau (I guess the boat from China
> delivers there first, so it arrives earlier).


Haha. Those unscrupulous tea companies have to keep up appearances. It
is still Japan, after all.

--crymad
  #65 (permalink)   Report Post  
The Snowfish.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chinese tea vs. Japanese tea

crymad > wrote in message >...
> DLG wrote:
>
> > About Chinese tea v.s. Japanese tea, I never been to Japan and seldom
> > drink Japanese tea, so I won't comment on this, but I lived in China
> > longer than Rich lived in Japan, and began to drink Chinese tea almost
> > 15 years ago, so I know what I have been drinking, and what to drink
> > according to different situations.

>
> Seldom drink Japanese tea? Please do comment on this. What about
> Japanese tea finds you indifferent?
>
> --crymad


THey shold make an anime/samurai battle bettween the two teas:

J.Tea: (draws sward) BANISH YOUR SELF FROM MY LAND!
C.Tea: (says quetly) You talk big but you've got nothing.
J.Tea: (raises sward into the air) I'LL AVENGE MY FATHER!!!
C.Tea: (draws sward then bursts into flame) HA! Your skill is weak!
You have nothing!
(SNIP: they fight)
J.Tea: (bleading and lying on the ground) Kill me you coward.
C.Tea: (says casualy) I'd hate to kill you. You see... you're my
brother!!!
J.Tea: (close up of eye) No... No.. you're not.
C.Tea: (close up on smiling mouth) I am. (close up on C.Tea sward)
Didnt you notice the sward i hold....
J.Tea: (Clenches teeth and says quietly) you killed him...(louder) YOU
KILLED HIM!.. (quiet) I will break you.
(J.Tea grabs the ground with one hand. He waits then stands up and
raises his sward)
J.Tea: (close up on eye) I see your soul and you've got nothing.


  #66 (permalink)   Report Post  
The Snowfish.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chinese tea vs. Japanese tea

crymad > wrote in message >...
> DLG wrote:
>
> > About Chinese tea v.s. Japanese tea, I never been to Japan and seldom
> > drink Japanese tea, so I won't comment on this, but I lived in China
> > longer than Rich lived in Japan, and began to drink Chinese tea almost
> > 15 years ago, so I know what I have been drinking, and what to drink
> > according to different situations.

>
> Seldom drink Japanese tea? Please do comment on this. What about
> Japanese tea finds you indifferent?
>
> --crymad


THey shold make an anime/samurai battle bettween the two teas:

J.Tea: (draws sward) BANISH YOUR SELF FROM MY LAND!
C.Tea: (says quetly) You talk big but you've got nothing.
J.Tea: (raises sward into the air) I'LL AVENGE MY FATHER!!!
C.Tea: (draws sward then bursts into flame) HA! Your skill is weak!
You have nothing!
(SNIP: they fight)
J.Tea: (bleading and lying on the ground) Kill me you coward.
C.Tea: (says casualy) I'd hate to kill you. You see... you're my
brother!!!
J.Tea: (close up of eye) No... No.. you're not.
C.Tea: (close up on smiling mouth) I am. (close up on C.Tea sward)
Didnt you notice the sward i hold....
J.Tea: (Clenches teeth and says quietly) you killed him...(louder) YOU
KILLED HIM!.. (quiet) I will break you.
(J.Tea grabs the ground with one hand. He waits then stands up and
raises his sward)
J.Tea: (close up on eye) I see your soul and you've got nothing.
  #67 (permalink)   Report Post  
crymad
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chinese tea vs. Japanese tea



Andy Marshall wrote:
>
> Crymad -
> Please enlighten me (and my Kumamoto-ken wife) where is Kyushu tea country?


If you go by production tonnage, the Kyushu's real tea country is down
at the tip, in Kagoshima. We were just a bit northwest from your wife's
home, in Saga.

--crymad
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crymad
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chinese tea vs. Japanese tea



Andy Marshall wrote:
>
> Crymad -
> Please enlighten me (and my Kumamoto-ken wife) where is Kyushu tea country?


If you go by production tonnage, the Kyushu's real tea country is down
at the tip, in Kagoshima. We were just a bit northwest from your wife's
home, in Saga.

--crymad
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