With very few exceptions (three, actually), all of my Puerh experience has been
black or cooked or whatever you want to call it. That's one reason that it was
great to continue my education in green, uncooked Puerhs with Michael Ryan at
mandjs.com.

He was friendly, returned emails quickly and his suggestions were actually
helpful without trying to upsell me as some of the local shops do. His
selection was varied and he worked with me on the shipping. In fact, since my
order put me between shipping weight classes, he just threw samples in the box
until I got the most bang for my shipping buck.

Opening a big, intercontinental, box of varying shaped Puerh straight from
China is a cool experience all by itself. Including samples, I'm looking at 11
Puerhs, 8 of them green. I've started sampling them in Yixing pots, using ½ as
many grams as ounces of water (boiled at sea level for those interested). I
have been brewing them for 30 sec., 1 minute, and 2 minutes with additional
steepings optional. While this method is helping me to get through them with
enough uniformity and quickly enough to compare them, some of them really
benefit from real gung fu preparation (more leaf & shorter steeps).

I'll try to post some reviews as soon as I can get my palate and vocabulary to
a level that might make them useful.

I have no connection to mandjs.com except as described herein and reading
Michael on the internet.
--Tom
-oo-
""\o~
------------------------------------
"Homo sum, humani nil a me alienum puto."
Terrance

2/2/04



> Opening a big, intercontinental, box of varying shaped Puerh straight from
> China is a cool experience all by itself.

Yes, I love getting those packages.

>Including samples, I'm looking at
> 11 Puerhs, 8 of them green. I've started sampling them in Yixing pots, using
> as many grams as ounces of water (boiled at sea level for those interested).
I> have been brewing them for 30 sec., 1 minute, and 2 minutes with
additional
> steepings optional. While this method is helping me to get through them with
> enough uniformity and quickly enough to compare them, some of them really
> benefit from real gung fu preparation (more leaf & shorter steeps).

I'm happy just hearing about it. Hope you are enjoy them. I gungfu pu-erh,
but some Chinese acquaintances don't. When you finish your samples, you'll
be well enough "educated" to pretty much know what you like.
>
> I'll try to post some reviews as soon as I can get my palate and vocabulary to
> a level that might make them useful.

Palates never stop changing, IMHO. As for vocabulary, please *don't* give
that too much thought; analogy and ideosyncratic description are best, much
better than the "official" word list, again IMHO.
>
> I have no connection to mandjs.com except as described herein and reading
> Michael on the internet.

I have samples of Michael's six Don Cong teas, drinking Wu Dong Bai Yie at
the moment, which is a an experience of note. Anyway, I'm happy.

Michael

"Tom" > wrote in message
...

>.....it was great to continue my education in green, uncooked Puerhs with
Michael Ryan at
> mandjs.com.
>
> He was friendly, returned emails quickly and his suggestions were actually
> helpful without trying to upsell me as some of the local shops do.

I can only second this. His goods are of high quality, and he gives friendly
and good advice.
I got a package from him a few days ago with some absolutely lovely yixing
teapots,
He (or his wife ;-) ) had put in a very nice selection of pu'erh samples
which I
have saved for a tasting session this weekend, something I'm really looking
forward to.

> I have no connection to mandjs.com except as described herein and reading
> Michael on the internet.

Neither do I.

Lars

Lars /5/04


>
> "Tom" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> .....it was great to continue my education in green, uncooked Puerhs with
> Michael Ryan at
>> mandjs.com.
>>
>> He was friendly, returned emails quickly and his suggestions were actually
>> helpful without trying to upsell me as some of the local shops do.
>
> I can only second this. His goods are of high quality, and he gives friendly
> and good advice.
> I got a package from him a few days ago with some absolutely lovely yixing
> teapots,
> He (or his wife ;-) ) had put in a very nice selection of pu'erh samples
> which I
> have saved for a tasting session this weekend, something I'm really looking
> forward to.
>
>> I have no connection to mandjs.com except as described herein and reading
>> Michael on the internet.
>
> Neither do I.
>
> Lars
>
>
>

Lars,

Wow. Which of the teapots did you get, may I ask? I'm very interested to
know how you like them. I'm looking at a couple of dem der (that is,
"those") teapots for myself.

Michael

"Michael Plant" > wrote in message
...
> Lars,
>
> Wow. Which of the teapots did you get, may I ask? I'm very interested to
> know how you like them. I'm looking at a couple of dem der (that is,
> "those") teapots for myself.

If you go to www.mandjs.com and have a look at products>>teapots>>yixing
teapots>>nature, I bought the first two, called 'artisans green zi sha' and
'top grade mixed zhu ni'. While I'm certainly no expert on yixing teapots my
impression of these pots a
1. They are beautiful!
2. The clay and the handywork seems very good
3. They pour perfectly
4. The price is at the same level or maybe a bit higher than other yixing
teapots I've seen or bought earlier that seem to be of lesser quality.

The shipping cost from China isn't much higher than the shipping cost from
the US for me, but that may of course be a consideration for some on this
list.

Lykke til med tekannene!
(Good luck with the teapots!)

Lars

They look beautiful.
Congrats.


>Subject: Puerh Tasting and Vendor Praise
>From: "Lars Mehlum"
>Date: 2/7/2004 2:54 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>
>"Michael Plant" > wrote in message
...
>> Lars,
>>
>> Wow. Which of the teapots did you get, may I ask? I'm very interested to
>> know how you like them. I'm looking at a couple of dem der (that is,
>> "those") teapots for myself.
>
>If you go to www.mandjs.com and have a look at products>>teapots>>yixing
>teapots>>nature, I bought the first two, called 'artisans green zi sha' and
>'top grade mixed zhu ni'. While I'm certainly no expert on yixing teapots my
>impression of these pots a
>1. They are beautiful!
>2. The clay and the handywork seems very good
>3. They pour perfectly
>4. The price is at the same level or maybe a bit higher than other yixing
>teapots I've seen or bought earlier that seem to be of lesser quality.
>
>The shipping cost from China isn't much higher than the shipping cost from
>the US for me, but that may of course be a consideration for some on this
>list.
>
>Lykke til med tekannene!
>(Good luck with the teapots!)
>
>Lars
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--Tom
-oo-
""\o~
------------------------------------
"Homo sum, humani nil a me alienum puto."
Terrance

Michael Plant > wrote in message >...
> Wow. Which of the teapots did you get, may I ask? I'm very interested to
> know how you like them.

Michael,

I've recently got "Laughing Arrow" by Wang Chin Ming from M&J's and
it's absolutely striking work of art. The workmanship and clay are
superb and teapot is full of spirit. Well worth the money. I've been a
patron of Michael Ryan's business for a while now and ALL teapots and
Puerh I've got from him have been great. In case you wonder, my
favorite for now is Xia Guan Tuo Cha Supreme Grade Uncooked 2003 (just
order another 10 kg). If you have any questions please feel free to
contact me here (in forum) or off line (yuri_pragin#comcast.net).

Thanks!

Michael Plant > wrote in message >...
> Wow. Which of the teapots did you get, may I ask? I'm very interested to
> know how you like them.

Michael,

I've recently got "Laughing Arrow" by Wang Chin Ming from M&J's and
it's absolutely striking work of art. The workmanship and clay are
superb and teapot is full of spirit. Well worth the money. I've been a
patron of Michael Ryan's business for a while now and ALL teapots and
Puerh I've got from him have been great. In case you wonder, my
favorite for now is Xia Guan Tuo Cha Supreme Grade Uncooked 2003 (just
order another 10 kg). If you have any questions please feel free to
contact me here (in forum or off line yuri_pragin#comcast.net).

Thanks!

Lars /7/04


>
> "Michael Plant" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Lars,
>>
>> Wow. Which of the teapots did you get, may I ask? I'm very interested to
>> know how you like them. I'm looking at a couple of dem der (that is,
>> "those") teapots for myself.
>
> If you go to www.mandjs.com and have a look at products>>teapots>>yixing
> teapots>>nature, I bought the first two, called 'artisans green zi sha' and
> 'top grade mixed zhu ni'. While I'm certainly no expert on yixing teapots my
> impression of these pots a
> 1. They are beautiful!
> 2. The clay and the handywork seems very good
> 3. They pour perfectly
> 4. The price is at the same level or maybe a bit higher than other yixing
> teapots I've seen or bought earlier that seem to be of lesser quality.
>
> The shipping cost from China isn't much higher than the shipping cost from
> the US for me, but that may of course be a consideration for some on this
> list.
>
> Lykke til med tekannene!
> (Good luck with the teapots!)

Mange tak sku' du have.

The ones you got are really nice: clean, bright, and good quality, it seems.
Hope you enjoy them. Are you going to dedicate them to any particular type
of tea or will they be generalists? (I'm struggling with this issue now.)

Michael

Yuriy 2/8/04


> Michael Plant > wrote in message
> >...
>> Wow. Which of the teapots did you get, may I ask? I'm very interested to
>> know how you like them.
>
> Michael,
>
> I've recently got "Laughing Arrow" by Wang Chin Ming from M&J's and
> it's absolutely striking work of art. The workmanship and clay are
> superb and teapot is full of spirit. Well worth the money. I've been a
> patron of Michael Ryan's business for a while now and ALL teapots and
> Puerh I've got from him have been great. In case you wonder, my
> favorite for now is Xia Guan Tuo Cha Supreme Grade Uncooked 2003 (just
> order another 10 kg). If you have any questions please feel free to
> contact me here (in forum) or off line (yuri_pragin#comcast.net).
>
> Thanks!


So Yuri,

Do you use the 10 kg for one cup, or do you distribute this one over time
and tea? Hee hee. I've seldom thought much of Tuo Chas, although they are
wonderfully convenient, so I'd be askanse (sp?) about this one. Maybe they
are bigger than tuo chas, which are usually truly cup sized?)

I'm on my way to the M&J site to have a look at the WCM LA you mentioned.
I'll talk more with you about this off-group.

Thanks.
Michael

Thanks.

Michael

"Yuriy Pragin" > wrote in message

> Well worth the money. I've been a
> patron of *******'s business for a while now and ALL teapots and
> Puerh I've got from him have been great. In case you wonder, my
> favorite for now is Xia Guan Tuo Cha Supreme Grade Uncooked 2003 (just
> order another 10 kg). If you have any questions please feel free to
> contact me here (in forum)

You've drunk 10 kg of tea ? Or you work as a retailer for ******* ? What
did they say at the custom ?

Kuri

All I can say about personal testimonials in this ng is caveat emptor.
You don't have to be smart to drive a Mercedes just rich. So enjoy
what everybody else is buying and drinking. When I serve tea you'll
never know how much it cost. If you prefer Puerh over Vintage Oolong
you won't be back.

Jim

Space 2/9/04


> All I can say about personal testimonials in this ng is caveat emptor.
> You don't have to be smart to drive a Mercedes just rich. So enjoy
> what everybody else is buying and drinking. When I serve tea you'll
> never know how much it cost. If you prefer Puerh over Vintage Oolong
> you won't be back.
>
> Jim

While I appreciate your comment, I don't necessarily understand your last
line. What's this about Puerh and Vintage Oolong? Was that a reference to
cost of one or the other?

Michael

Yuriy 2/9/04


> (Space Cowboy) wrote in message
> . com>...
>> You don't have to be smart to drive a Mercedes just rich. So enjoy
>> what everybody else is buying and drinking.
>
> I've been asked for my opinion, so I gave it. You are right, you don't
> have to be smart to drive a Mercedes, but hey, I enjoy it none the
> less. The point is not in brand, but in quality. Unfortunately quality
> goods are expensive, so I prefer have less but better quality. I'm
> enjoying what I can afford, do you have a problem with that?


Generally, I want what *for me* is the best, and I'm willing to drink less
and pay more for whatever quantity I can afford, if that is what it takes.
Yuri, I think you hit the nail on the head. Besides, I am personally quite
comfortable with my wealth.

Michael

If you guys don't shutup I'm going to start talking about my Yugo.
Here's a riddle for the Mercedes crowd. I just came back from
visiting a local tea merchant and he pointed out a reputable tea book
no longer in print where the English author said to brew Yinzhen 15
minutes while others would assume the conventional wisdom is multiple
short infusions gongfu method. I think I know why there is some merit
to that statement by the English author. What is your opinion?

Jim

Michael Plant > wrote in message >...
> Yuriy 2/9/04
>
>
> > (Space Cowboy) wrote in message
> > . com>...
> >> You don't have to be smart to drive a Mercedes just rich. So enjoy
> >> what everybody else is buying and drinking.
> >
> > I've been asked for my opinion, so I gave it. You are right, you don't
> > have to be smart to drive a Mercedes, but hey, I enjoy it none the
> > less. The point is not in brand, but in quality. Unfortunately quality
> > goods are expensive, so I prefer have less but better quality. I'm
> > enjoying what I can afford, do you have a problem with that?
>
>
> Generally, I want what *for me* is the best, and I'm willing to drink less
> and pay more for whatever quantity I can afford, if that is what it takes.
> Yuri, I think you hit the nail on the head. Besides, I am personally quite
> comfortable with my wealth.
>
> Michael

(Space Cowboy) writes:

> If you guys don't shutup I'm going to start talking about my Yugo.
> Here's a riddle for the Mercedes crowd. I just came back from
> visiting a local tea merchant and he pointed out a reputable tea book
> no longer in print where the English author said to brew Yinzhen 15
> minutes while others would assume the conventional wisdom is multiple
> short infusions gongfu method. I think I know why there is some merit
> to that statement by the English author. What is your opinion?

I don't have a Mercedes, but I do have an opinion: there's more than
one way to do it.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

(Space Cowboy) wrote in message . com>...
> English author said to brew Yinzhen 15
> minutes while others would assume the conventional wisdom is multiple
> short infusions gongfu method.

Yinzhen or Silver Needle is white tea and should never be used for
Gongfu, so infusion for 15 minutes using warm water sounds quite all
right.

Space 2/10/04


> If you guys don't shutup I'm going to start talking about my Yugo.
> Here's a riddle for the Mercedes crowd. I just came back from
> visiting a local tea merchant and he pointed out a reputable tea book
> no longer in print where the English author said to brew Yinzhen 15
> minutes while others would assume the conventional wisdom is multiple
> short infusions gongfu method. I think I know why there is some merit
> to that statement by the English author. What is your opinion?
>
> Jim

First, I'm not sure whether the comment regarding Yin Zhen gungfu short
infusions is yours or the authors, but it doesn't matter much. Second, you
didn't mention temperature at all. Fifteen minutes in water close to tepid
would be fine. I've done it. It works well. One minute in water close to
boiling temperature would wreck it, **to my taste**. Please reveal the book
and author. If it's expensive enough we of the Mercedes crowd will bounce
out and buy it.

Speaking of which, I disapprove of Mercedes. They are big and awkward and
they imply that you need others with you. My black Porsche is my favorite
car, much better than the BMW. I really don't want room for many people in a
vehicle. It's sort of why I only wear Polo dress shirts. No pockets. If you
have pockets in a shirt, you'd probably put a pen in it. That's what
secretaries are for. Know what I mean?

Drinking a rare Private Reserve Bai Hao at the moment from a private
distributor/collector in Hong Kong. I was only able to get two ounces of it,
but at 1450 British pounds a kilo, that was all I could afford. Is it worth
it. Well, Jim, you never know, but then you'll never know.

BTW, I'd love to have you drop by for tea, but only if you promise to drive
the Yugo. My people need a good laugh.

Michael

I'm going to wait to hear from anybody else before my two cents worth.
Forget Gongfu and assume multiple infusions at some ideal brewing
temperature suggested by tea websites. I think it an interesting
statement contrary to assumed conventional wisdom of at least multiple
infusions. I toss it out as a challenge for the two thumbs up
testimonial crowd of those concerned about quality. Don't be shy my
answer is a guess too.

Jim

(Yuriy Pragin) wrote in message m>...
> (Space Cowboy) wrote in message . com>...
> > English author said to brew Yinzhen 15
> > minutes while others would assume the conventional wisdom is multiple
> > short infusions gongfu method.
>
> Yinzhen or Silver Needle is white tea and should never be used for
> Gongfu, so infusion for 15 minutes using warm water sounds quite all
> right.

I wished there were more guesses. That's what happens when inquiring
minds want to know and it isn't a rehash of old threads and is
contrary too most brewing instructions at the websites. So my simple
answer is 'Aesthetics' which ties in with the author's idea of 15
minutes brewing times for Yinzhen at 185F (which I forgot to mention)
and I'll add a glass pot to support my argument. Obviously we aren't
talking about optimum taste starting with a temperature only suggested
for multiple infusions. The only two others suggesting the same
approach as the author will understand my answer while the singular to
each his own won't. For anybody else it is just a breeze carassing
the scalp.

Jim

(Yuriy Pragin) wrote in message m>...
> (Space Cowboy) wrote in message . com>...
> > English author said to brew Yinzhen 15
> > minutes while others would assume the conventional wisdom is multiple
> > short infusions gongfu method.
>
> Yinzhen or Silver Needle is white tea and should never be used for
> Gongfu, so infusion for 15 minutes using warm water sounds quite all
> right.

That's exactly ((1450*1.85)/1000)*100 times more expensive than my
everyday cuppa or the mathematical approximation it is so expensive,
so rare, you can only guess. I'll take your word the taste is even
better. You can always tell the walking billboards who argue a cheap
BMW is a better car than an expensive Mercedes. They're the same ones
giving testimonials about expensive bargains from websites because
we're too stupid to know the difference between pretender and
contender. I bought a used 73 International Travelall after watching
Al Pacino in Dog Day Afternoon which I used everyday for 20 years. I
let it sit idle for nearly a decade because I was too cheap to buy a
master brake cylinder. One day a surveyor shows up and we put in a
new battery after fixing the brakes and squirting some oil in the
eight cylinders of the 392 he drove it away after starting on the
second crank because we had to reseat the primary and idle jets
because they leaked after the first cranking start. I'm sitting in a
seminar in the late 80's listening to some yahoo blowhard economics
professor explain why IH went out of business. I came up after the
lecture and told him I was still driving one and it was sitting
outside. That ladies and gentlemen is quality without the bucks and
it wasn't in the shop constantly like a Jaguar. So when someone
starts waving the $$$'s in your face and talking about website quality
it is nothing more than admitted self indulgence for the masses.

Jim

Michael Plant > wrote in message >...
> Space 2/10/04
>
>
> > If you guys don't shutup I'm going to start talking about my Yugo.

> Speaking of which, I disapprove of Mercedes. They are big and awkward and
> they imply that you need others with you. My black Porsche is my favorite
> car, much better than the BMW. I really don't want room for many people in a
> vehicle.

> Drinking a rare Private Reserve Bai Hao at the moment from a private
> distributor/collector in Hong Kong. I was only able to get two ounces of it,
> but at 1450 British pounds a kilo, that was all I could afford. Is it worth
> it. Well, Jim, you never know, but then you'll never know.

Tea Companion by Jane Pettigrew. She is going to attend the tea
convention in Los Wages. It's out of print but you can find it on the
Internet. It's in association with Mariage Freres and my impression
nothing more than a fancy catalog with pretty pictures of teas you've
supposedly never seen for example Yinzhen which all of us stock. BTW
I didn't think anybody's favorite website would show up so you can
still place your orders at midnight because the Shopping Cart never
sleeps.

Jim

Michael Plant > wrote in message >...
> Space 2/10/04
>
>
> > If you guys don't shutup I'm going to start talking about my Yugo.
> > Here's a riddle for the Mercedes crowd. I just came back from
> > visiting a local tea merchant and he pointed out a reputable tea book
> > no longer in print where the English author said to brew Yinzhen 15
> > minutes while others would assume the conventional wisdom is multiple
> > short infusions gongfu method. I think I know why there is some merit
> > to that statement by the English author. What is your opinion?
> >
> > Jim
>
> First, I'm not sure whether the comment regarding Yin Zhen gungfu short
> infusions is yours or the authors, but it doesn't matter much. Second, you
> didn't mention temperature at all. Fifteen minutes in water close to tepid
> would be fine. I've done it. It works well. One minute in water close to
> boiling temperature would wreck it, **to my taste**. Please reveal the book
> and author. If it's expensive enough we of the Mercedes crowd will bounce
> out and buy it.

"Michael Plant" > wrote in message
...
> The ones you got are really nice: clean, bright, and good quality, it
seems.
> Hope you enjoy them. Are you going to dedicate them to any particular type
> of tea or will they be generalists? (I'm struggling with this issue now.)
>
I'm going to use the red mixed clay one for formosa oolongs. I haven't
decided what to do with the green one yet, but I need one for Puerh. I'm not
sure if it is the best pot for that kind of tea though. I will think about
it some more. For the moment it is just standing on a shelf in my kitchen,
looking pretty...

Lars


> Michael
>