Tea (rec.drink.tea) Discussion relating to tea, the world's second most consumed beverage (after water), made by infusing or boiling the leaves of the tea plant (C. sinensis or close relatives) in water.

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Default 10 Teas to Start With

As a followup to the brewing basics post I recently made, this one
attempts to offer a solid foundation in the teas themselves. This is
from my blog (http://teasphere.wordpress.com - not a plug, simply
there for aggregators and sites which scrape these posts and use them
as their own). While many here may not require such basic information,
I am very interested in hearing thoughts and additions/changes that
others would include in their list of 10 teas to start a new tea
journey with:



Now that we have covered some basics of brewing, we need to lay some
ground work on determining just what teas to brew. There are thousands
of types of tea and even within a specific type of tea there can be
hundreds of variations, it can be daunting. Today we’ll try to compile
a list of 10 teas that cover a wide enough spectrum that will quickly
show you what types and characteristics of tea you, personally, enjoy
and which you do not. This will allow you to explore with some
confidence from that point without simply relying on luck. So let’s
get to it:

1.) Ceylon – Smooth and generally mellow, this tea is probably the
closest to the standard teabag many are familiar with but a nice
upgrade in flavor and quality. It is a fairly rich taste with a very
slight bit of astringency and bitterness.

2.) Sencha – A Japanese green tea that is very light, bright, and
refreshing. This is a true green tea in every sense of the word and
miles apart from what is often sold as “green tea” in most stores.

3.) Long Jing – A very popular Chinese green tea with a bright and
almost “nutty” flavor. This is a nice contrast to Sencha and showcases
a different side of green tea. Also known as Dragonwell.

4.) Shui Xian – This oolong tea is often associated with tea served in
Chinese restaurants. It is a nice basic introduction to oolongs and
isn’t that radical a departure from many of the flavors of standard
teabags, but the medium fermentation and roasting adds complexity.
Also known as Shui Hsien, or water sprite.

5.) Tie Guan Yin – A greener oolong with a slightly floral aroma and
flavor. The split in oolongs generally runs along the more roasted/
fermented/fruity lines such as Shui Xian and the greener/floral ones
like this tea. Again comparing this to the Shui Xian should yield a
personal affinity towards one or the other, many enjoy both. Also
known as Tie Kuan Yin, or Iron Goddess of Mercy.

6.) Silver Needles – White tea is often shrouded in mystery and
mystique, but it is really just minimally processed tea leaf that
isn’t roasted or fermented, just dried. It is delicate and often has a
sweetness. Also known as Bai Hao Yinzhen, or Yin Zhen.

7.) Keemun – A black tea in the Chinese style which is rich, sweet,
and full-bodied. This would be a great introduction tea for coffee
lovers since it is not as subtle as many of the others. Some keemuns
exhibit a smokey flavor which some may find desirable.

8.) Darjeeling – Sometimes referred to as “The Champagne of Teas” this
Indian tea exhibits a wonderful array of flavors from sweet to nutty
to grape-ish muscatel notes. Within this one category almost anyone
can find at least one or two specific teas that matches their
preferences. This type alone could be an entire lifelong pursuit, so
try a few different ones in this category before making an assessment.

9.) Jasmine Green – I’ve included this option in the list to offer an
idea of what flavored tea is really about. Almost all low-end tea and
widely available tea is so heavily flavored and imbalanced that many
have lost sight of the fact that the tea itself is the star. A
delicate jasmine scent added to a quality green tea is a nice balance
and gateway between the overpowered offerings in most cafes and the
ultimate goal of the unadorned beauty of the leaf itself. Jasmine
pearls are often the best choice in this type of tea.

10.) Puer – This is the single-malt Scotch and cigar of tea. It is
highly prized and often aged for many years, and has a dedicated
following of devotees. If you like earthy, smoky, and oaky flavors in
your wines or enjoy the aforementioned Scotch and cigar, this may be a
tea for you. If this doesn’t sound like your style you can skip this
one altogether or at least try one to say you experienced it. Again,
this is a complex group and requires quite a bit of initiative to dig
into properly, there are a number of great resources on the web for
those interested however. Sometimes spelled puerh or pu-erh.

These 10 teas certainly won’t show you everything tea has to offer,
but it will cover a very wide breadth of styles and flavors that will
act as a springboard to further exploration and enjoyment. Feel free
to ask questions and post comments and most importantly, Have Fun!

- Dominic
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I would say walk into any tea shoppe and buy any tea that meets your
fancy. Trust your instincts. I would point out each tea stands on
its own in taste. There arent any must have teas. It is more
important to explore than worry about pedigree. So if you live near a
TEAVANA or any tea shoppe make them show you every tea they have and
only walk away with one purchase. Do this enough times and youll get
a sense of what is what. I would say let the bottom line be your
guide. There is no correlation between tea taste and price. Walk
into any Indian, Arabic, Chinese store and buy any tea you see on the
shelf. The next time you are in a discount store like TJMax check the
closeout shelves. The rest of the world drinks cheap tea. It is as
good as anyplace to start. If I had a tea shoppe it would have a
roulette wheel with the names of tea. Tea taste is a gamble for those
starting out.

Jim

PS As an immediate criticism you dont tie your teas to your brewing
table. Even if you did what Darjeeling grade are you talking about
for example black,oolong,green. If Im from HongKong I only drink
heavy roasted TGY with dimsum. Sushi sencha taste different than what
you described. This type of analysis can be applied to every tea you
listed. I think your approach is fundamentally flawed. It wouldnt
work in any tea shoppe I know. Southerners know their iced tea, the
British their blends, the Russians their Ceylons, the politicos their
teabags in other words the best place to start is with what they THINK
they know. And if they take cream and sugar with their coffee they
already are consummate tea experts.

On Oct 22, 9:12 am, "Dominic T." > wrote:
> As a followup to the brewing basics post I recently made, this one
> attempts to offer a solid foundation in the teas themselves. This is
> from my blog (http://teasphere.wordpress.com- not a plug, simply
> there for aggregators and sites which scrape these posts and use them
> as their own). While many here may not require such basic information,
> I am very interested in hearing thoughts and additions/changes that
> others would include in their list of 10 teas to start a new tea
> journey with:
>
> Now that we have covered some basics of brewing, we need to lay some
> ground work on determining just what teas to brew. There are thousands
> of types of tea and even within a specific type of tea there can be
> hundreds of variations, it can be daunting. Today we’ll try to compile
> a list of 10 teas that cover a wide enough spectrum that will quickly
> show you what types and characteristics of tea you, personally, enjoy
> and which you do not. This will allow you to explore with some
> confidence from that point without simply relying on luck. So let’s
> get to it:
>
> 1.) Ceylon – Smooth and generally mellow, this tea is probably the
> closest to the standard teabag many are familiar with but a nice
> upgrade in flavor and quality. It is a fairly rich taste with a very
> slight bit of astringency and bitterness.
>
> 2.) Sencha – A Japanese green tea that is very light, bright, and
> refreshing. This is a true green tea in every sense of the word and
> miles apart from what is often sold as “green tea” in most stores.
>
> 3.) Long Jing – A very popular Chinese green tea with a bright and
> almost “nutty” flavor. This is a nice contrast to Sencha and showcases
> a different side of green tea. Also known as Dragonwell.
>
> 4.) Shui Xian – This oolong tea is often associated with tea served in
> Chinese restaurants. It is a nice basic introduction to oolongs and
> isn’t that radical a departure from many of the flavors of standard
> teabags, but the medium fermentation and roasting adds complexity.
> Also known as Shui Hsien, or water sprite.
>
> 5.) Tie Guan Yin – A greener oolong with a slightly floral aroma and
> flavor. The split in oolongs generally runs along the more roasted/
> fermented/fruity lines such as Shui Xian and the greener/floral ones
> like this tea. Again comparing this to the Shui Xian should yield a
> personal affinity towards one or the other, many enjoy both. Also
> known as Tie Kuan Yin, or Iron Goddess of Mercy.
>
> 6.) Silver Needles – White tea is often shrouded in mystery and
> mystique, but it is really just minimally processed tea leaf that
> isn’t roasted or fermented, just dried. It is delicate and often has a
> sweetness. Also known as Bai Hao Yinzhen, or Yin Zhen.
>
> 7.) Keemun – A black tea in the Chinese style which is rich, sweet,
> and full-bodied. This would be a great introduction tea for coffee
> lovers since it is not as subtle as many of the others. Some keemuns
> exhibit a smokey flavor which some may find desirable.
>
> 8.) Darjeeling – Sometimes referred to as “The Champagne of Teas” this
> Indian tea exhibits a wonderful array of flavors from sweet to nutty
> to grape-ish muscatel notes. Within this one category almost anyone
> can find at least one or two specific teas that matches their
> preferences. This type alone could be an entire lifelong pursuit, so
> try a few different ones in this category before making an assessment.
>
> 9.) Jasmine Green – I’ve included this option in the list to offer an
> idea of what flavored tea is really about. Almost all low-end tea and
> widely available tea is so heavily flavored and imbalanced that many
> have lost sight of the fact that the tea itself is the star. A
> delicate jasmine scent added to a quality green tea is a nice balance
> and gateway between the overpowered offerings in most cafes and the
> ultimate goal of the unadorned beauty of the leaf itself. Jasmine
> pearls are often the best choice in this type of tea.
>
> 10.) Puer – This is the single-malt Scotch and cigar of tea. It is
> highly prized and often aged for many years, and has a dedicated
> following of devotees. If you like earthy, smoky, and oaky flavors in
> your wines or enjoy the aforementioned Scotch and cigar, this may be a
> tea for you. If this doesn’t sound like your style you can skip this
> one altogether or at least try one to say you experienced it. Again,
> this is a complex group and requires quite a bit of initiative to dig
> into properly, there are a number of great resources on the web for
> those interested however. Sometimes spelled puerh or pu-erh.
>
> These 10 teas certainly won’t show you everything tea has to offer,
> but it will cover a very wide breadth of styles and flavors that will
> act as a springboard to further exploration and enjoyment. Feel free
> to ask questions and post comments and most importantly, Have Fun!
>
> - Dominic

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On Oct 23, 10:28*am, Space Cowboy > wrote:
> I would say walk into any tea shoppe and buy any tea that meets your
> fancy. *Trust your instincts. *I would point out each tea stands on
> its own in taste. *There arent any must have teas. *It is more
> important to explore than worry about pedigree. *So if you live near a
> TEAVANA or any tea shoppe make them show you every tea they have and
> only walk away with one purchase. *Do this enough times and youll get
> a sense of what is what. *I would say let the bottom line be your
> guide. *There is no correlation between tea taste and price. *Walk
> into any Indian, Arabic, Chinese store and buy any tea you see on the
> shelf. *The next time you are in a discount store like TJMax check the
> closeout shelves. *The rest of the world drinks cheap tea. *It is as
> good as anyplace to start. *If I had a tea shoppe it would have a
> roulette wheel with the names of tea. *Tea taste is a gamble for those
> starting out.
>
> Jim
>
> PS *As an immediate criticism you dont tie your teas to your brewing
> table. *Even if you did what Darjeeling grade are you talking about
> for example black,oolong,green. *If Im from HongKong I only drink
> heavy roasted TGY with dimsum. *Sushi sencha taste different than what
> you described. *This type of analysis can be applied to every tea you
> listed. *I think your approach is fundamentally flawed. *It wouldnt
> work in any tea shoppe I know. *Southerners know their iced tea, the
> British their blends, the Russians their Ceylons, the politicos their
> teabags in other words the best place to start is with what they THINK
> they know. *And if they take cream and sugar with their coffee they
> already are consummate tea experts.


I understand what you are saying, but I think you may be missing what
I was aiming for. When I started into tea I did essentially what you
state, but without even knowing that there are different types of
oolongs (roasted, floral, green, etc.) so I would buy oolongs based on
no real foundation and be disappointed when as soon as the hot water
hit the leaf and I would be met with a flowery bouquet. I had wasted
money, time, and tea. To just have been told that some oolongs are
flowery and some are not and a couple names to look out for would have
helped tremendously. To know that Sencha and Dragonwell are both
"green teas" but quite different is similarly helpful, I know because
I had this conversation with a family member (and the confusion and
question came from them because of a trip to Teavanna).

I titled it 10 teas to start with, with the goal of listing 10 teas
that cover almost all of the different flavors and styles tea has to
offer. So with the purchase of even just 10 samples of one of each of
these for say a total of $10-20 from a site like Upton tea a person
could experience a wide array of tea that would help them pinpoint
which areas they want to delve into further, and which they can set
aside for the moment.

Chances are if they have any attraction to say a sencha (even a basic
one) they will then explore that realm with a bit more confidence and
understanding instead of continuing to buy Chinese greens looking for
a taste that will never be there. (again, from personal experience
something a friend had been doing)

We sometimes lose sight of what exactly a person just venturing into
tea *today* has to contend with. It's quite a lot more than I suspect
you are assuming, there is a lot of misinformation, flavored teas,
teas selling for very high prices in grocery stores claiming to be
"the best" with names of gyokuro and puerh and others on them but
offering next to nothing of the real thing.

I had not thought of directly relating the teas in the list to the
brewing primer because I assumed too much and you are correct that I
should state where something like Ceylon or DJ fits in. I had expected
the two pieces of information to be separate guides for separate uses.
I will look into connecting the dots... I had planned on writing more
specific and detailed brewing guides successively to help flesh out
the basic guide in time.

I appreciate you comments and I know it can be hard for us to step
back and see through new eyes (especially since when many of us were
starting out the Internet didn't exist, and tea was a different animal
in the U.S.).

- Dominic

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I was really worried you would take what I said the wrong way which
you didnt. I think the biggest mistake 'today' people feel they have
to make the right choice. I think curiosity more important than
knowledge. And if tea ever becomes established in this country sadly
it will come from multicultural diversity. I have a new mantra, if
you can make coffee you can make tea. I had a relevation last night
there is no reason I couldnt percolate shu. Im going to try to find a
nofrills percolator this weekend. I imagine if I do it right it would
taste like Louisianne with Chickory. It has been 'percolating' in my
subconscious since I tasted some cooked in a yixing pot which I
reported. I have other teas in mind.

Jim

PS Sure people talking too you or me might get better advice than they
ever could from anywhere else including a tea shoppe or the Internet.
Or maybe not. I like to think one function of this NG the Dear Abby
of tea advice.

On Oct 23, 9:31 am, "Dominic T." > wrote:
> On Oct 23, 10:28 am, Space Cowboy > wrote:
>
>
>
> > I would say walk into any tea shoppe and buy any tea that meets your
> > fancy. Trust your instincts.

....drink Lipton while waiting for your Upton samples...

> I understand what you are saying, but I think you may be missing what
> I was aiming for. When I started into tea I did essentially what you
> state, but without even knowing that there are different types of
> oolongs (roasted, floral, green, etc.) so I would buy oolongs based on
> no real foundation and be disappointed when as soon as the hot water
> hit the leaf and I would be met with a flowery bouquet. I had wasted
> money, time, and tea. To just have been told that some oolongs are
> flowery and some are not and a couple names to look out for would have
> helped tremendously. To know that Sencha and Dragonwell are both
> "green teas" but quite different is similarly helpful, I know because
> I had this conversation with a family member (and the confusion and
> question came from them because of a trip to Teavanna).
>
> I titled it 10 teas to start with, with the goal of listing 10 teas
> that cover almost all of the different flavors and styles tea has to
> offer. So with the purchase of even just 10 samples of one of each of
> these for say a total of $10-20 from a site like Upton tea a person
> could experience a wide array of tea that would help them pinpoint
> which areas they want to delve into further, and which they can set
> aside for the moment.
>
> Chances are if they have any attraction to say a sencha (even a basic
> one) they will then explore that realm with a bit more confidence and
> understanding instead of continuing to buy Chinese greens looking for
> a taste that will never be there. (again, from personal experience
> something a friend had been doing)
>
> We sometimes lose sight of what exactly a person just venturing into
> tea *today* has to contend with. It's quite a lot more than I suspect
> you are assuming, there is a lot of misinformation, flavored teas,
> teas selling for very high prices in grocery stores claiming to be
> "the best" with names of gyokuro and puerh and others on them but
> offering next to nothing of the real thing.
>
> I had not thought of directly relating the teas in the list to the
> brewing primer because I assumed too much and you are correct that I
> should state where something like Ceylon or DJ fits in. I had expected
> the two pieces of information to be separate guides for separate uses.
> I will look into connecting the dots... I had planned on writing more
> specific and detailed brewing guides successively to help flesh out
> the basic guide in time.
>
> I appreciate you comments and I know it can be hard for us to step
> back and see through new eyes (especially since when many of us were
> starting out the Internet didn't exist, and tea was a different animal
> in the U.S.).
>
> - Dominic


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On Oct 23, 1:01*pm, Space Cowboy > wrote:
> I was really worried you would take what I said the wrong way which
> you didnt. *I think the biggest mistake 'today' people feel they have
> to make the right choice. *I think curiosity more important than
> knowledge. *And if tea ever becomes established in this country sadly
> it will come from multicultural diversity. *I have a new mantra, if
> you can make coffee you can make tea. *I had a relevation last night
> there is no reason I couldnt percolate shu. Im going to try to find a
> nofrills percolator this weekend. *I imagine if I do it right it would
> taste like Louisianne with Chickory. *It has been 'percolating' in my
> subconscious since I tasted some cooked in a yixing pot which I
> reported. *I have other teas in mind.
>
> Jim
>
> PS Sure people talking too you or me might get better advice than they
> ever could from anywhere else including a tea shoppe or the Internet.
> Or maybe not. *I like to think one function of this NG the Dear Abby
> of tea advice.


No worries, I'm a big boy, I just wanted to make sure that
conceptually we were on the same page. I'm not claiming there is "one"
DJ or "one" Sencha, just that the concept of Sencha and Darjeeling
should be out there and in people's minds as they explore. The thing I
hear a lot now is that people believe since the tea section at their
supermarket has exploded ten-fold they think that that surely must be
every type of tea and quality available. Some are expensive, some are
cheap, some are exotic sounding, etc. and they truly believe that is a
full selection... I can't really blame them either because many parts
of the globe are covered and the prices vary wildly and it is a large
number of offerings. When I was starting out the most exotic tea I had
bought was a box of "Chinese Restaurant Tea" in a red and black box by
Kame that I found in the Asian section of the local supermarket.
Outside of that the tea "world" consisted of what I could find in the
ethnic markets of Pittsburgh, which seemed vast and endless compared
to the supermarket... none of it was really any good, but I didn't
have the Internet or anyone else to turn to really at the time for any
questions or help. It's basically the same today, just more confusing
and complex. My only hope is to cover a decent range of flavors and
styles in 10 teas.

I'd be happy to hear if anyone thinks I have left out a specific
flavor-profile or style that I am lacking in this list.

- Dominic



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On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 08:12:33 -0700 (PDT), "Dominic T."
> wrote:

>As a followup to the brewing basics post I recently made, this one
>attempts to offer a solid foundation in the teas themselves. This is
>from my blog (http://teasphere.wordpress.com - not a plug, simply
>there for aggregators and sites which scrape these posts and use them
>as their own). While many here may not require such basic information,
>I am very interested in hearing thoughts and additions/changes that
>others would include in their list of 10 teas to start a new tea
>journey with:
>
>
>
>Now that we have covered some basics of brewing, we need to lay some
>ground work on determining just what teas to brew. There are thousands
>of types of tea and even within a specific type of tea there can be
>hundreds of variations, it can be daunting. Today we’ll try to compile
>a list of 10 teas that cover a wide enough spectrum that will quickly
>show you what types and characteristics of tea you, personally, enjoy
>and which you do not. This will allow you to explore with some
>confidence from that point without simply relying on luck. So let’s
>get to it:
>
>1.) Ceylon – Smooth and generally mellow, this tea is probably the
>closest to the standard teabag many are familiar with but a nice
>upgrade in flavor and quality. It is a fairly rich taste with a very
>slight bit of astringency and bitterness.
>
>2.) Sencha – A Japanese green tea that is very light, bright, and
>refreshing. This is a true green tea in every sense of the word and
>miles apart from what is often sold as “green tea” in most stores.
>
>3.) Long Jing – A very popular Chinese green tea with a bright and
>almost “nutty” flavor. This is a nice contrast to Sencha and showcases
>a different side of green tea. Also known as Dragonwell.
>
>4.) Shui Xian – This oolong tea is often associated with tea served in
>Chinese restaurants. It is a nice basic introduction to oolongs and
>isn’t that radical a departure from many of the flavors of standard
>teabags, but the medium fermentation and roasting adds complexity.
>Also known as Shui Hsien, or water sprite.
>
>5.) Tie Guan Yin – A greener oolong with a slightly floral aroma and
>flavor. The split in oolongs generally runs along the more roasted/
>fermented/fruity lines such as Shui Xian and the greener/floral ones
>like this tea. Again comparing this to the Shui Xian should yield a
>personal affinity towards one or the other, many enjoy both. Also
>known as Tie Kuan Yin, or Iron Goddess of Mercy.
>
>6.) Silver Needles – White tea is often shrouded in mystery and
>mystique, but it is really just minimally processed tea leaf that
>isn’t roasted or fermented, just dried. It is delicate and often has a
>sweetness. Also known as Bai Hao Yinzhen, or Yin Zhen.
>
>7.) Keemun – A black tea in the Chinese style which is rich, sweet,
>and full-bodied. This would be a great introduction tea for coffee
>lovers since it is not as subtle as many of the others. Some keemuns
>exhibit a smokey flavor which some may find desirable.
>
>8.) Darjeeling – Sometimes referred to as “The Champagne of Teas” this
>Indian tea exhibits a wonderful array of flavors from sweet to nutty
>to grape-ish muscatel notes. Within this one category almost anyone
>can find at least one or two specific teas that matches their
>preferences. This type alone could be an entire lifelong pursuit, so
>try a few different ones in this category before making an assessment.
>
>9.) Jasmine Green – I’ve included this option in the list to offer an
>idea of what flavored tea is really about. Almost all low-end tea and
>widely available tea is so heavily flavored and imbalanced that many
>have lost sight of the fact that the tea itself is the star. A
>delicate jasmine scent added to a quality green tea is a nice balance
>and gateway between the overpowered offerings in most cafes and the
>ultimate goal of the unadorned beauty of the leaf itself. Jasmine
>pearls are often the best choice in this type of tea.
>
>10.) Puer – This is the single-malt Scotch and cigar of tea. It is
>highly prized and often aged for many years, and has a dedicated
>following of devotees. If you like earthy, smoky, and oaky flavors in
>your wines or enjoy the aforementioned Scotch and cigar, this may be a
>tea for you. If this doesn’t sound like your style you can skip this
>one altogether or at least try one to say you experienced it. Again,
>this is a complex group and requires quite a bit of initiative to dig
>into properly, there are a number of great resources on the web for
>those interested however. Sometimes spelled puerh or pu-erh.
>
>These 10 teas certainly won’t show you everything tea has to offer,
>but it will cover a very wide breadth of styles and flavors that will
>act as a springboard to further exploration and enjoyment. Feel free
>to ask questions and post comments and most importantly, Have Fun!
>
>- Dominic


I have tried several of your suggestions regarding brewing techniques
and always found them helpful. You have obviously put a lot of work
into understanding tea.

It would be very helpful to me if you care to post links to specific
teas that are good examples of the ones in your Top Ten list above.

I have been buying from Upton. When I do a search on their site for
the names in your list (Ceylon, Sencha), I get dozens of teas. A
search for "Shui Xian" gets zero hits, but either "Shui" or "Xian"
alone, gets a few.

If you have time to include specific teas from Upton, I would
appreciate it. I'll check other vendors, too, but I have a gift
certificate for Upton that I haven't used up.

Thanks
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On Oct 30, 2:32*pm, Prof Wonmug > wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 08:12:33 -0700 (PDT), "Dominic T."
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> >As a followup to the brewing basics post I recently made, this one
> >attempts to offer a solid foundation in the teas themselves. This is
> >from my blog (http://teasphere.wordpress.com- not a plug, simply
> >there for aggregators and sites which scrape these posts and use them
> >as their own). While many here may not require such basic information,
> >I am very interested in hearing thoughts and additions/changes that
> >others would include in their list of 10 teas to start a new tea
> >journey with:

>
> >Now that we have covered some basics of brewing, we need to lay some
> >ground work on determining just what teas to brew. There are thousands
> >of types of tea and even within a specific type of tea there can be
> >hundreds of variations, it can be daunting. Today we’ll try to compile
> >a list of 10 teas that cover a wide enough spectrum that will quickly
> >show you what types and characteristics of tea you, personally, enjoy
> >and which you do not. This will allow you to explore with some
> >confidence from that point without simply relying on luck. So let’s
> >get to it:

>
> >1.) Ceylon – Smooth and generally mellow, this tea is probably the
> >closest *to the standard teabag many are familiar with but a nice
> >upgrade in flavor and quality. It is a fairly rich taste with a very
> >slight bit of astringency and bitterness.

>
> >2.) Sencha – A Japanese green tea that is very light, bright, and
> >refreshing. This is a true green tea in every sense of the word and
> >miles apart from what is often sold as “green tea” in most stores.

>
> >3.) Long Jing – A very popular Chinese green tea with a bright and
> >almost “nutty” flavor. This is a nice contrast to Sencha and showcases
> >a different side of green tea. Also known as Dragonwell.

>
> >4.) Shui Xian – This oolong tea is often associated with tea served in
> >Chinese restaurants. It is a nice basic introduction to oolongs and
> >isn’t that radical a departure from many of the flavors of standard
> >teabags, but the medium fermentation and roasting adds complexity.
> >Also known as Shui Hsien, or water sprite.

>
> >5.) Tie Guan Yin – A greener oolong with a slightly floral aroma and
> >flavor. The split in oolongs generally runs along the more roasted/
> >fermented/fruity lines such as Shui Xian and the greener/floral ones
> >like this tea. Again comparing this to the Shui Xian should yield a
> >personal affinity towards one or the other, many enjoy both. Also
> >known as Tie Kuan Yin, or Iron Goddess of Mercy.

>
> >6.) Silver Needles – White tea is often shrouded in mystery and
> >mystique, but it is really just minimally processed tea leaf that
> >isn’t roasted or fermented, just dried. It is delicate and often has a
> >sweetness. Also known as Bai Hao Yinzhen, or Yin Zhen.

>
> >7.) Keemun – A black tea in the Chinese style which is rich, sweet,
> >and full-bodied. This would be a great introduction tea for coffee
> >lovers since it is not as subtle as many of the others. Some keemuns
> >exhibit a smokey flavor which some may find desirable.

>
> >8.) Darjeeling – Sometimes referred to as “The Champagne of Teas” this
> >Indian tea exhibits a wonderful array of flavors from sweet to nutty
> >to grape-ish muscatel notes. Within this one category almost anyone
> >can find at least one or two specific teas that matches their
> >preferences. This type alone could be an entire lifelong pursuit, so
> >try a few different ones in this category before making an assessment.

>
> >9.) Jasmine Green – I’ve included this option in the list to offer an
> >idea of what flavored tea is really about. Almost all low-end tea and
> >widely available tea is so heavily flavored and imbalanced that many
> >have lost sight of the fact that the tea itself is the star. A
> >delicate jasmine scent added to a quality green tea is a nice balance
> >and gateway between the overpowered offerings in most cafes and the
> >ultimate goal of the unadorned beauty of the leaf itself. Jasmine
> >pearls are often the best choice in this type of tea.

>
> >10.) Puer – This is the single-malt Scotch and cigar of tea. It is
> >highly prized and often aged for many years, and has a dedicated
> >following of devotees. If you like earthy, smoky, and oaky flavors in
> >your wines or enjoy the aforementioned Scotch and cigar, this may be a
> >tea for you. If this doesn’t sound like your style you can skip this
> >one altogether or at least try one to say you experienced it. Again,
> >this is a complex group and requires quite a bit of initiative to dig
> >into properly, there are a number of great resources on the web for
> >those interested however. Sometimes spelled puerh or pu-erh.

>
> >These 10 teas certainly won’t show you everything tea has to offer,
> >but it will cover a very wide breadth of styles and flavors that will
> >act as a springboard to further exploration and enjoyment. Feel free
> >to ask questions and post comments and most importantly, Have Fun!

>
> >- Dominic

>
> I have tried several of your suggestions regarding brewing techniques
> and always found them helpful. You have obviously put a lot of work
> into understanding tea.
>
> It would be very helpful to me if you care to post links to specific
> teas that are good examples of the ones in your Top Ten list above.
>
> I have been buying from Upton. When I do a search on their site for
> the names in your list (Ceylon, Sencha), I get dozens of teas. A
> search for "Shui Xian" gets zero hits, but either "Shui" or "Xian"
> alone, gets a few.
>
> If you have time to include specific teas from Upton, I would
> appreciate it. I'll check other vendors, too, but I have a gift
> certificate for Upton that I haven't used up.
>
> Thanks


Thank you for the kind words, I'm truly glad you find it helpful, that
is my main goal. Just like initially I really was trying to be helpful
in discouraging the super-rigid "parameters," not bashing the
scientific method or those who prefer structure. As I alluded to then,
I am an IT/scientific guy myself so I do understand the desire or
"need" but tea is even better when not constrained to those same
constructs. And if it is how you personally enjoy your tea, then go
for it, I'd be amazed however that if after time and familiarity grows
that those hard and fast parameters don't go out the window.

So, on to your questions... Upton's is one of my last resorts when it
comes to tea (I swear I'm not just antagonizing you personally, you
can read the archives They often have quality and freshness issues.
Their leaf is rarely beautiful and whole and the freshness is always
barely passable... but that is because a number of the teas I drink
stand out best when fresh and good quality. Some teas it is less
affected and Upton's can be OK for. My suggestion would be to buy the
sample sizes of one of each on the list (I think they all can be found
at Upton's) For any category with a ton of options, pick the cheapest,
one in the middle pricewise, and the most expensive of the category.
Upton's will have decent Ceylon, Darjeeling, Keemun, and TGY, they
even have some loose puer which isn't so hot but will give you the
idea. I have never tried their Long Jing/Dragonwell, and their sencha
yamato is borderline passable.They do not carry shui xian as such, but
their standard/fine/choicest oolongs are closest in approximation, I'd
go with maybe the middle one.

Teaspring.com is probably the best balance of price to quality you
will find for many of these teas (they are Chinese tea only so no
Ceylon, Darjeeling, or Sencha). After you use up your gift card, and
start narrowing down what you liked and disliked, have a similar go at
them with teaspring. They too offer samples (but they tend to be a bit
more expensive, however contain more tea, than Upton's samples.

From there you should have some key favorites nailed down, then you
can explore since there are so many variations and choices and have
fun learning about that type of tea. Then move on to some of the more
expensive but high-quality offerings from specialty vendors since you
know what you'll be buying.

I truly hope this helps and feel free to post any questions or if you
need help choosing one tea over another from Upton's. Myself and
others here will likely have tried it or know enough to point you in
the right direction.

Enjoy!
- Dominic
  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.drink.tea
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 100
Default 10 Teas to Start With

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:33:22 -0700 (PDT), "Dominic T."
> wrote:

>On Oct 30, 2:32*pm, Prof Wonmug > wrote:
>> On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 08:12:33 -0700 (PDT), "Dominic T."
>>
>>
>>
>> > wrote:
>> >As a followup to the brewing basics post I recently made, this one
>> >attempts to offer a solid foundation in the teas themselves. This is
>> >from my blog (http://teasphere.wordpress.com- not a plug, simply
>> >there for aggregators and sites which scrape these posts and use them
>> >as their own). While many here may not require such basic information,
>> >I am very interested in hearing thoughts and additions/changes that
>> >others would include in their list of 10 teas to start a new tea
>> >journey with:

>>
>> >Now that we have covered some basics of brewing, we need to lay some
>> >ground work on determining just what teas to brew. There are thousands
>> >of types of tea and even within a specific type of tea there can be
>> >hundreds of variations, it can be daunting. Today we’ll try to compile
>> >a list of 10 teas that cover a wide enough spectrum that will quickly
>> >show you what types and characteristics of tea you, personally, enjoy
>> >and which you do not. This will allow you to explore with some
>> >confidence from that point without simply relying on luck. So let’s
>> >get to it:

>>
>> >1.) Ceylon – Smooth and generally mellow, this tea is probably the
>> >closest *to the standard teabag many are familiar with but a nice
>> >upgrade in flavor and quality. It is a fairly rich taste with a very
>> >slight bit of astringency and bitterness.

>>
>> >2.) Sencha – A Japanese green tea that is very light, bright, and
>> >refreshing. This is a true green tea in every sense of the word and
>> >miles apart from what is often sold as “green tea” in most stores.

>>
>> >3.) Long Jing – A very popular Chinese green tea with a bright and
>> >almost “nutty” flavor. This is a nice contrast to Sencha and showcases
>> >a different side of green tea. Also known as Dragonwell.

>>
>> >4.) Shui Xian – This oolong tea is often associated with tea served in
>> >Chinese restaurants. It is a nice basic introduction to oolongs and
>> >isn’t that radical a departure from many of the flavors of standard
>> >teabags, but the medium fermentation and roasting adds complexity.
>> >Also known as Shui Hsien, or water sprite.

>>
>> >5.) Tie Guan Yin – A greener oolong with a slightly floral aroma and
>> >flavor. The split in oolongs generally runs along the more roasted/
>> >fermented/fruity lines such as Shui Xian and the greener/floral ones
>> >like this tea. Again comparing this to the Shui Xian should yield a
>> >personal affinity towards one or the other, many enjoy both. Also
>> >known as Tie Kuan Yin, or Iron Goddess of Mercy.

>>
>> >6.) Silver Needles – White tea is often shrouded in mystery and
>> >mystique, but it is really just minimally processed tea leaf that
>> >isn’t roasted or fermented, just dried. It is delicate and often has a
>> >sweetness. Also known as Bai Hao Yinzhen, or Yin Zhen.

>>
>> >7.) Keemun – A black tea in the Chinese style which is rich, sweet,
>> >and full-bodied. This would be a great introduction tea for coffee
>> >lovers since it is not as subtle as many of the others. Some keemuns
>> >exhibit a smokey flavor which some may find desirable.

>>
>> >8.) Darjeeling – Sometimes referred to as “The Champagne of Teas” this
>> >Indian tea exhibits a wonderful array of flavors from sweet to nutty
>> >to grape-ish muscatel notes. Within this one category almost anyone
>> >can find at least one or two specific teas that matches their
>> >preferences. This type alone could be an entire lifelong pursuit, so
>> >try a few different ones in this category before making an assessment.

>>
>> >9.) Jasmine Green – I’ve included this option in the list to offer an
>> >idea of what flavored tea is really about. Almost all low-end tea and
>> >widely available tea is so heavily flavored and imbalanced that many
>> >have lost sight of the fact that the tea itself is the star. A
>> >delicate jasmine scent added to a quality green tea is a nice balance
>> >and gateway between the overpowered offerings in most cafes and the
>> >ultimate goal of the unadorned beauty of the leaf itself. Jasmine
>> >pearls are often the best choice in this type of tea.

>>
>> >10.) Puer – This is the single-malt Scotch and cigar of tea. It is
>> >highly prized and often aged for many years, and has a dedicated
>> >following of devotees. If you like earthy, smoky, and oaky flavors in
>> >your wines or enjoy the aforementioned Scotch and cigar, this may be a
>> >tea for you. If this doesn’t sound like your style you can skip this
>> >one altogether or at least try one to say you experienced it. Again,
>> >this is a complex group and requires quite a bit of initiative to dig
>> >into properly, there are a number of great resources on the web for
>> >those interested however. Sometimes spelled puerh or pu-erh.

>>
>> >These 10 teas certainly won’t show you everything tea has to offer,
>> >but it will cover a very wide breadth of styles and flavors that will
>> >act as a springboard to further exploration and enjoyment. Feel free
>> >to ask questions and post comments and most importantly, Have Fun!

>>
>> >- Dominic

>>
>> I have tried several of your suggestions regarding brewing techniques
>> and always found them helpful. You have obviously put a lot of work
>> into understanding tea.
>>
>> It would be very helpful to me if you care to post links to specific
>> teas that are good examples of the ones in your Top Ten list above.
>>
>> I have been buying from Upton. When I do a search on their site for
>> the names in your list (Ceylon, Sencha), I get dozens of teas. A
>> search for "Shui Xian" gets zero hits, but either "Shui" or "Xian"
>> alone, gets a few.
>>
>> If you have time to include specific teas from Upton, I would
>> appreciate it. I'll check other vendors, too, but I have a gift
>> certificate for Upton that I haven't used up.
>>
>> Thanks

>
>Thank you for the kind words, I'm truly glad you find it helpful, that
>is my main goal. Just like initially I really was trying to be helpful
>in discouraging the super-rigid "parameters," not bashing the
>scientific method or those who prefer structure. As I alluded to then,
>I am an IT/scientific guy myself so I do understand the desire or
>"need" but tea is even better when not constrained to those same
>constructs. And if it is how you personally enjoy your tea, then go
>for it, I'd be amazed however that if after time and familiarity grows
>that those hard and fast parameters don't go out the window.


(sigh) You just had to get one more shot in. I wonder who really is
the rigid one...

>So, on to your questions... Upton's is one of my last resorts when it
>comes to tea (I swear I'm not just antagonizing you personally, you
>can read the archives They often have quality and freshness issues.
>Their leaf is rarely beautiful and whole and the freshness is always
>barely passable... but that is because a number of the teas I drink
>stand out best when fresh and good quality. Some teas it is less
>affected and Upton's can be OK for. My suggestion would be to buy the
>sample sizes of one of each on the list (I think they all can be found
>at Upton's) For any category with a ton of options, pick the cheapest,
>one in the middle pricewise, and the most expensive of the category.
>Upton's will have decent Ceylon, Darjeeling, Keemun, and TGY, they
>even have some loose puer which isn't so hot but will give you the
>idea. I have never tried their Long Jing/Dragonwell, and their sencha
>yamato is borderline passable.They do not carry shui xian as such, but
>their standard/fine/choicest oolongs are closest in approximation, I'd
>go with maybe the middle one.
>
>Teaspring.com is probably the best balance of price to quality you
>will find for many of these teas (they are Chinese tea only so no
>Ceylon, Darjeeling, or Sencha). After you use up your gift card, and
>start narrowing down what you liked and disliked, have a similar go at
>them with teaspring. They too offer samples (but they tend to be a bit
>more expensive, however contain more tea, than Upton's samples.


Teaspring is a curious site. I'll take your word that they have great
tea. The website does not inspire confidence. Lots of typos and the
recommendations look generic and canned.

The brewing recs for the Shui Xian, for example, say,

"Steep tea leaves in hot water at 100°c (212°F) for 1 minute for the
first and second brewing. Gradually increase steeping time and
temperature for subsequent brewing."

It's too bad they don't tell me how to gradually increase the
temperature above 212F. Maybe it needs to be brewed in a pressurized
room. ;-)

Some of the reviews are downright goofy. The very first reviewer of
Yunnan Gold says,

"This is a fine pu erh has the typical taste..."

I guess not all of their customers are connoisseurs.

Anyway, I'll try 3-4 of their teas. They have a couple that I already
have from Upton. I'll brew them side-by-side and see if I can tell any
difference. It's possible that I'm too obtuse (or rigid?) to notice
anything but gross differences.

>From there you should have some key favorites nailed down, then you
>can explore since there are so many variations and choices and have
>fun learning about that type of tea. Then move on to some of the more
>expensive but high-quality offerings from specialty vendors since you
>know what you'll be buying.
>
>I truly hope this helps and feel free to post any questions or if you
>need help choosing one tea over another from Upton's. Myself and
>others here will likely have tried it or know enough to point you in
>the right direction.
>
>Enjoy!
>- Dominic

  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.drink.tea
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,096
Default 10 Teas to Start With

On Oct 31, 11:56*am, Prof Wonmug > wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:33:22 -0700 (PDT), "Dominic T."
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> >On Oct 30, 2:32*pm, Prof Wonmug > wrote:
> >> On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 08:12:33 -0700 (PDT), "Dominic T."

>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >As a followup to the brewing basics post I recently made, this one
> >> >attempts to offer a solid foundation in the teas themselves. This is
> >> >from my blog (http://teasphere.wordpress.com-not a plug, simply
> >> >there for aggregators and sites which scrape these posts and use them
> >> >as their own). While many here may not require such basic information,
> >> >I am very interested in hearing thoughts and additions/changes that
> >> >others would include in their list of 10 teas to start a new tea
> >> >journey with:

>
> >> >Now that we have covered some basics of brewing, we need to lay some
> >> >ground work on determining just what teas to brew. There are thousands
> >> >of types of tea and even within a specific type of tea there can be
> >> >hundreds of variations, it can be daunting. Today we’ll try to compile
> >> >a list of 10 teas that cover a wide enough spectrum that will quickly
> >> >show you what types and characteristics of tea you, personally, enjoy
> >> >and which you do not. This will allow you to explore with some
> >> >confidence from that point without simply relying on luck. So let’s
> >> >get to it:

>
> >> >1.) Ceylon – Smooth and generally mellow, this tea is probably the
> >> >closest *to the standard teabag many are familiar with but a nice
> >> >upgrade in flavor and quality. It is a fairly rich taste with a very
> >> >slight bit of astringency and bitterness.

>
> >> >2.) Sencha – A Japanese green tea that is very light, bright, and
> >> >refreshing. This is a true green tea in every sense of the word and
> >> >miles apart from what is often sold as “green tea” in most stores..

>
> >> >3.) Long Jing – A very popular Chinese green tea with a bright and
> >> >almost “nutty” flavor. This is a nice contrast to Sencha and showcases
> >> >a different side of green tea. Also known as Dragonwell.

>
> >> >4.) Shui Xian – This oolong tea is often associated with tea served in
> >> >Chinese restaurants. It is a nice basic introduction to oolongs and
> >> >isn’t that radical a departure from many of the flavors of standard
> >> >teabags, but the medium fermentation and roasting adds complexity.
> >> >Also known as Shui Hsien, or water sprite.

>
> >> >5.) Tie Guan Yin – A greener oolong with a slightly floral aroma and
> >> >flavor. The split in oolongs generally runs along the more roasted/
> >> >fermented/fruity lines such as Shui Xian and the greener/floral ones
> >> >like this tea. Again comparing this to the Shui Xian should yield a
> >> >personal affinity towards one or the other, many enjoy both. Also
> >> >known as Tie Kuan Yin, or Iron Goddess of Mercy.

>
> >> >6.) Silver Needles – White tea is often shrouded in mystery and
> >> >mystique, but it is really just minimally processed tea leaf that
> >> >isn’t roasted or fermented, just dried. It is delicate and often has a
> >> >sweetness. Also known as Bai Hao Yinzhen, or Yin Zhen.

>
> >> >7.) Keemun – A black tea in the Chinese style which is rich, sweet,
> >> >and full-bodied. This would be a great introduction tea for coffee
> >> >lovers since it is not as subtle as many of the others. Some keemuns
> >> >exhibit a smokey flavor which some may find desirable.

>
> >> >8.) Darjeeling – Sometimes referred to as “The Champagne of Teas” this
> >> >Indian tea exhibits a wonderful array of flavors from sweet to nutty
> >> >to grape-ish muscatel notes. Within this one category almost anyone
> >> >can find at least one or two specific teas that matches their
> >> >preferences. This type alone could be an entire lifelong pursuit, so
> >> >try a few different ones in this category before making an assessment..

>
> >> >9.) Jasmine Green – I’ve included this option in the list to offer an
> >> >idea of what flavored tea is really about. Almost all low-end tea and
> >> >widely available tea is so heavily flavored and imbalanced that many
> >> >have lost sight of the fact that the tea itself is the star. A
> >> >delicate jasmine scent added to a quality green tea is a nice balance
> >> >and gateway between the overpowered offerings in most cafes and the
> >> >ultimate goal of the unadorned beauty of the leaf itself. Jasmine
> >> >pearls are often the best choice in this type of tea.

>
> >> >10.) Puer – This is the single-malt Scotch and cigar of tea. It is
> >> >highly prized and often aged for many years, and has a dedicated
> >> >following of devotees. If you like earthy, smoky, and oaky flavors in
> >> >your wines or enjoy the aforementioned Scotch and cigar, this may be a
> >> >tea for you. If this doesn’t sound like your style you can skip this
> >> >one altogether or at least try one to say you experienced it. Again,
> >> >this is a complex group and requires quite a bit of initiative to dig
> >> >into properly, there are a number of great resources on the web for
> >> >those interested however. Sometimes spelled puerh or pu-erh.

>
> >> >These 10 teas certainly won’t show you everything tea has to offer,
> >> >but it will cover a very wide breadth of styles and flavors that will
> >> >act as a springboard to further exploration and enjoyment. Feel free
> >> >to ask questions and post comments and most importantly, Have Fun!

>
> >> >- Dominic

>
> >> I have tried several of your suggestions regarding brewing techniques
> >> and always found them helpful. You have obviously put a lot of work
> >> into understanding tea.

>
> >> It would be very helpful to me if you care to post links to specific
> >> teas that are good examples of the ones in your Top Ten list above.

>
> >> I have been buying from Upton. When I do a search on their site for
> >> the names in your list (Ceylon, Sencha), I get dozens of teas. A
> >> search for "Shui Xian" gets zero hits, but either "Shui" or "Xian"
> >> alone, gets a few.

>
> >> If you have time to include specific teas from Upton, I would
> >> appreciate it. I'll check other vendors, too, but I have a gift
> >> certificate for Upton that I haven't used up.

>
> >> Thanks

>
> >Thank you for the kind words, I'm truly glad you find it helpful, that
> >is my main goal. Just like initially I really was trying to be helpful
> >in discouraging the super-rigid "parameters," not bashing the
> >scientific method or those who prefer structure. As I alluded to then,
> >I am an IT/scientific guy myself so I do understand the desire or
> >"need" but tea is even better when not constrained to those same
> >constructs. And if it is how you personally enjoy your tea, then go
> >for it, I'd be amazed however that if after time and familiarity grows
> >that those hard and fast parameters don't go out the window.

>
> (sigh) You just had to get one more shot in. I wonder who really is
> the rigid one...
>
>
>
>
>
> >So, on to your questions... Upton's is one of my last resorts when it
> >comes to tea (I swear I'm not just antagonizing you personally, you
> >can read the archives They often have quality and freshness issues.
> >Their leaf is rarely beautiful and whole and the freshness is always
> >barely passable... but that is because a number of the teas I drink
> >stand out best when fresh and good quality. Some teas it is less
> >affected and Upton's can be OK for. My suggestion would be to buy the
> >sample sizes of one of each on the list (I think they all can be found
> >at Upton's) For any category with a ton of options, pick the cheapest,
> >one in the middle pricewise, and the most expensive of the category.
> >Upton's will have decent Ceylon, Darjeeling, Keemun, and TGY, they
> >even have some loose puer which isn't so hot but will give you the
> >idea. I have never tried their Long Jing/Dragonwell, and their sencha
> >yamato is borderline passable.They do not carry shui xian as such, but
> >their standard/fine/choicest oolongs are closest in approximation, I'd
> >go with maybe the middle one.

>
> >Teaspring.com is probably the best balance of price to quality you
> >will find for many of these teas (they are Chinese tea only so no
> >Ceylon, Darjeeling, or Sencha). After you use up your gift card, and
> >start narrowing down what you liked and disliked, have a similar go at
> >them with teaspring. They too offer samples (but they tend to be a bit
> >more expensive, however contain more tea, than Upton's samples.

>
> Teaspring is a curious site. I'll take your word that they have great
> tea. The website does not inspire confidence. Lots of typos and the
> recommendations look generic and canned.
>
> The brewing recs for the Shui Xian, for example, say,
>
> "Steep tea leaves in hot water at 100°c (212°F) for 1 minute for the
> first and second brewing. Gradually increase steeping time and
> temperature for subsequent brewing."
>
> It's too bad they don't tell me how to gradually increase the
> temperature above 212F. Maybe it needs to be brewed in a pressurized
> room. ;-)
>
> Some of the reviews are downright goofy. The very first reviewer of
> Yunnan Gold says,
>
> "This is a fine pu erh has the typical taste..."
>
> I guess not all of their customers are connoisseurs.
>
> Anyway, I'll try 3-4 of their teas. They have a couple that I already
> have from Upton. I'll brew them side-by-side and see if I can tell any
> difference. It's possible that I'm too obtuse (or rigid?) to notice
> anything but gross differences.
>
>
>
> >From there you should have some key favorites nailed down, then you
> >can explore since there are so many variations and choices and have
> >fun learning about that type of tea. Then move on to some of the more
> >expensive but high-quality offerings from specialty vendors since you
> >know what you'll be buying.

>
> >I truly hope this helps and feel free to post any questions or if you
> >need help choosing one tea over another from Upton's. Myself and
> >others here will likely have tried it or know enough to point you in
> >the right direction.

>
> >Enjoy!
> >- Dominic


haha, fair enough. Yeah, Teaspring doesn't always seem like it would
be a solid site, but the owner is very nice and has good
communication. Ignore the reviews and suggestions mostly, I have had
some issue with them as well as far as the descriptions go. Never with
the tea. It is probably the best balance of price to performance in
tea online. Think of it as the mid-point in quality, which is great
for daily drinking teas. It's not on the list but their Huo Shan Huang
Ya (yellow tea) is excellent. One time it was so fresh it almost
bowled me over when I opened it up. It's like a lighter green tea with
sweet/corn notes that I love, but it goes stale quickly so I only
order it in smaller amounts.

A direct comparison is great, and will really show you the
differences. Don't accelerate it too much though, explore in this
price/quality range and then eventually work upwards. It really will
allow you to detect the sometimes very subtle differences in good to
great tea. If you don't spend enough time with the lower and mid
ranges you'll miss out.

Recently I wanted to start exploring black teas/red teas in more depth
since it isn't an area I delve into often. I started at Teaspring and
ordered one or two of each in the ones I was looking to check out (If
there were a lot I grabbed the lowest priced one and the highest) Then
worked through them one or two a day and over a week or two, immersing
myself in them only. Then noting the few that I liked, then I went on
to explore those some more. Out of probably 12 teas only one really
stuck and I'll add it to my stable... one (rou gui) was a letdown from
them totally and I'll buy elsewhere before making a judgement. That's
just my way of tackling this task, it works the best for me and I
think it ends up being the most practical and budget friendly.

And there are times when I have a really rare/special/new tea that I
break out my little thermometer and digital scale so that all has it's
place to be sure. I really would love to hear how it goes and what you
end up liking/disliking, I think it would be helpful to everyone not
just me.

- Dominic
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Default 10 Teas to Start With

On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:17:40 -0700 (PDT), "Dominic T."
> wrote:

>On Oct 31, 11:56*am, Prof Wonmug > wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:33:22 -0700 (PDT), "Dominic T."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > wrote:
>> >On Oct 30, 2:32*pm, Prof Wonmug > wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 08:12:33 -0700 (PDT), "Dominic T."

>>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >As a followup to the brewing basics post I recently made, this one
>> >> >attempts to offer a solid foundation in the teas themselves. This is
>> >> >from my blog (http://teasphere.wordpress.com-not a plug, simply
>> >> >there for aggregators and sites which scrape these posts and use them
>> >> >as their own). While many here may not require such basic information,
>> >> >I am very interested in hearing thoughts and additions/changes that
>> >> >others would include in their list of 10 teas to start a new tea
>> >> >journey with:

>>
>> >> >Now that we have covered some basics of brewing, we need to lay some
>> >> >ground work on determining just what teas to brew. There are thousands
>> >> >of types of tea and even within a specific type of tea there can be
>> >> >hundreds of variations, it can be daunting. Today we’ll try to compile
>> >> >a list of 10 teas that cover a wide enough spectrum that will quickly
>> >> >show you what types and characteristics of tea you, personally, enjoy
>> >> >and which you do not. This will allow you to explore with some
>> >> >confidence from that point without simply relying on luck. So let’s
>> >> >get to it:

>>
>> >> >1.) Ceylon – Smooth and generally mellow, this tea is probably the
>> >> >closest *to the standard teabag many are familiar with but a nice
>> >> >upgrade in flavor and quality. It is a fairly rich taste with a very
>> >> >slight bit of astringency and bitterness.

>>
>> >> >2.) Sencha – A Japanese green tea that is very light, bright, and
>> >> >refreshing. This is a true green tea in every sense of the word and
>> >> >miles apart from what is often sold as “green tea” in most stores.

>>
>> >> >3.) Long Jing – A very popular Chinese green tea with a bright and
>> >> >almost “nutty” flavor. This is a nice contrast to Sencha and showcases
>> >> >a different side of green tea. Also known as Dragonwell.

>>
>> >> >4.) Shui Xian – This oolong tea is often associated with tea served in
>> >> >Chinese restaurants. It is a nice basic introduction to oolongs and
>> >> >isn’t that radical a departure from many of the flavors of standard
>> >> >teabags, but the medium fermentation and roasting adds complexity.
>> >> >Also known as Shui Hsien, or water sprite.

>>
>> >> >5.) Tie Guan Yin – A greener oolong with a slightly floral aroma and
>> >> >flavor. The split in oolongs generally runs along the more roasted/
>> >> >fermented/fruity lines such as Shui Xian and the greener/floral ones
>> >> >like this tea. Again comparing this to the Shui Xian should yield a
>> >> >personal affinity towards one or the other, many enjoy both. Also
>> >> >known as Tie Kuan Yin, or Iron Goddess of Mercy.

>>
>> >> >6.) Silver Needles – White tea is often shrouded in mystery and
>> >> >mystique, but it is really just minimally processed tea leaf that
>> >> >isn’t roasted or fermented, just dried. It is delicate and often has a
>> >> >sweetness. Also known as Bai Hao Yinzhen, or Yin Zhen.

>>
>> >> >7.) Keemun – A black tea in the Chinese style which is rich, sweet,
>> >> >and full-bodied. This would be a great introduction tea for coffee
>> >> >lovers since it is not as subtle as many of the others. Some keemuns
>> >> >exhibit a smokey flavor which some may find desirable.

>>
>> >> >8.) Darjeeling – Sometimes referred to as “The Champagne of Teas” this
>> >> >Indian tea exhibits a wonderful array of flavors from sweet to nutty
>> >> >to grape-ish muscatel notes. Within this one category almost anyone
>> >> >can find at least one or two specific teas that matches their
>> >> >preferences. This type alone could be an entire lifelong pursuit, so
>> >> >try a few different ones in this category before making an assessment.

>>
>> >> >9.) Jasmine Green – I’ve included this option in the list to offer an
>> >> >idea of what flavored tea is really about. Almost all low-end tea and
>> >> >widely available tea is so heavily flavored and imbalanced that many
>> >> >have lost sight of the fact that the tea itself is the star. A
>> >> >delicate jasmine scent added to a quality green tea is a nice balance
>> >> >and gateway between the overpowered offerings in most cafes and the
>> >> >ultimate goal of the unadorned beauty of the leaf itself. Jasmine
>> >> >pearls are often the best choice in this type of tea.

>>
>> >> >10.) Puer – This is the single-malt Scotch and cigar of tea. It is
>> >> >highly prized and often aged for many years, and has a dedicated
>> >> >following of devotees. If you like earthy, smoky, and oaky flavors in
>> >> >your wines or enjoy the aforementioned Scotch and cigar, this may be a
>> >> >tea for you. If this doesn’t sound like your style you can skip this
>> >> >one altogether or at least try one to say you experienced it. Again,
>> >> >this is a complex group and requires quite a bit of initiative to dig
>> >> >into properly, there are a number of great resources on the web for
>> >> >those interested however. Sometimes spelled puerh or pu-erh.

>>
>> >> >These 10 teas certainly won’t show you everything tea has to offer,
>> >> >but it will cover a very wide breadth of styles and flavors that will
>> >> >act as a springboard to further exploration and enjoyment. Feel free
>> >> >to ask questions and post comments and most importantly, Have Fun!

>>
>> >> >- Dominic

>>
>> >> I have tried several of your suggestions regarding brewing techniques
>> >> and always found them helpful. You have obviously put a lot of work
>> >> into understanding tea.

>>
>> >> It would be very helpful to me if you care to post links to specific
>> >> teas that are good examples of the ones in your Top Ten list above.

>>
>> >> I have been buying from Upton. When I do a search on their site for
>> >> the names in your list (Ceylon, Sencha), I get dozens of teas. A
>> >> search for "Shui Xian" gets zero hits, but either "Shui" or "Xian"
>> >> alone, gets a few.

>>
>> >> If you have time to include specific teas from Upton, I would
>> >> appreciate it. I'll check other vendors, too, but I have a gift
>> >> certificate for Upton that I haven't used up.

>>
>> >> Thanks

>>
>> >Thank you for the kind words, I'm truly glad you find it helpful, that
>> >is my main goal. Just like initially I really was trying to be helpful
>> >in discouraging the super-rigid "parameters," not bashing the
>> >scientific method or those who prefer structure. As I alluded to then,
>> >I am an IT/scientific guy myself so I do understand the desire or
>> >"need" but tea is even better when not constrained to those same
>> >constructs. And if it is how you personally enjoy your tea, then go
>> >for it, I'd be amazed however that if after time and familiarity grows
>> >that those hard and fast parameters don't go out the window.

>>
>> (sigh) You just had to get one more shot in. I wonder who really is
>> the rigid one...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >So, on to your questions... Upton's is one of my last resorts when it
>> >comes to tea (I swear I'm not just antagonizing you personally, you
>> >can read the archives They often have quality and freshness issues.
>> >Their leaf is rarely beautiful and whole and the freshness is always
>> >barely passable... but that is because a number of the teas I drink
>> >stand out best when fresh and good quality. Some teas it is less
>> >affected and Upton's can be OK for. My suggestion would be to buy the
>> >sample sizes of one of each on the list (I think they all can be found
>> >at Upton's) For any category with a ton of options, pick the cheapest,
>> >one in the middle pricewise, and the most expensive of the category.
>> >Upton's will have decent Ceylon, Darjeeling, Keemun, and TGY, they
>> >even have some loose puer which isn't so hot but will give you the
>> >idea. I have never tried their Long Jing/Dragonwell, and their sencha
>> >yamato is borderline passable.They do not carry shui xian as such, but
>> >their standard/fine/choicest oolongs are closest in approximation, I'd
>> >go with maybe the middle one.

>>
>> >Teaspring.com is probably the best balance of price to quality you
>> >will find for many of these teas (they are Chinese tea only so no
>> >Ceylon, Darjeeling, or Sencha). After you use up your gift card, and
>> >start narrowing down what you liked and disliked, have a similar go at
>> >them with teaspring. They too offer samples (but they tend to be a bit
>> >more expensive, however contain more tea, than Upton's samples.

>>
>> Teaspring is a curious site. I'll take your word that they have great
>> tea. The website does not inspire confidence. Lots of typos and the
>> recommendations look generic and canned.
>>
>> The brewing recs for the Shui Xian, for example, say,
>>
>> "Steep tea leaves in hot water at 100°c (212°F) for 1 minute for the
>> first and second brewing. Gradually increase steeping time and
>> temperature for subsequent brewing."
>>
>> It's too bad they don't tell me how to gradually increase the
>> temperature above 212F. Maybe it needs to be brewed in a pressurized
>> room. ;-)
>>
>> Some of the reviews are downright goofy. The very first reviewer of
>> Yunnan Gold says,
>>
>> "This is a fine pu erh has the typical taste..."
>>
>> I guess not all of their customers are connoisseurs.
>>
>> Anyway, I'll try 3-4 of their teas. They have a couple that I already
>> have from Upton. I'll brew them side-by-side and see if I can tell any
>> difference. It's possible that I'm too obtuse (or rigid?) to notice
>> anything but gross differences.
>>
>>
>>
>> >From there you should have some key favorites nailed down, then you
>> >can explore since there are so many variations and choices and have
>> >fun learning about that type of tea. Then move on to some of the more
>> >expensive but high-quality offerings from specialty vendors since you
>> >know what you'll be buying.

>>
>> >I truly hope this helps and feel free to post any questions or if you
>> >need help choosing one tea over another from Upton's. Myself and
>> >others here will likely have tried it or know enough to point you in
>> >the right direction.

>>
>> >Enjoy!
>> >- Dominic

>
>haha, fair enough. Yeah, Teaspring doesn't always seem like it would
>be a solid site, but the owner is very nice and has good
>communication. Ignore the reviews and suggestions mostly, I have had
>some issue with them as well as far as the descriptions go. Never with
>the tea. It is probably the best balance of price to performance in
>tea online. Think of it as the mid-point in quality, which is great
>for daily drinking teas. It's not on the list but their Huo Shan Huang
>Ya (yellow tea) is excellent. One time it was so fresh it almost
>bowled me over when I opened it up. It's like a lighter green tea with
>sweet/corn notes that I love, but it goes stale quickly so I only
>order it in smaller amounts.
>
>A direct comparison is great, and will really show you the
>differences. Don't accelerate it too much though, explore in this
>price/quality range and then eventually work upwards. It really will
>allow you to detect the sometimes very subtle differences in good to
>great tea. If you don't spend enough time with the lower and mid
>ranges you'll miss out.
>
>Recently I wanted to start exploring black teas/red teas in more depth
>since it isn't an area I delve into often. I started at Teaspring and
>ordered one or two of each in the ones I was looking to check out (If
>there were a lot I grabbed the lowest priced one and the highest) Then
>worked through them one or two a day and over a week or two, immersing
>myself in them only. Then noting the few that I liked, then I went on
>to explore those some more. Out of probably 12 teas only one really
>stuck and I'll add it to my stable... one (rou gui) was a letdown from
>them totally and I'll buy elsewhere before making a judgement. That's
>just my way of tackling this task, it works the best for me and I
>think it ends up being the most practical and budget friendly.
>
>And there are times when I have a really rare/special/new tea that I
>break out my little thermometer and digital scale so that all has it's
>place to be sure. I really would love to hear how it goes and what you
>end up liking/disliking, I think it would be helpful to everyone not
>just me.
>
>- Dominic


Would you care to suggest a few teas from Teaspring? I haven't had
much luck with blacks so far, so I think I'll concentrate on greens
and oolongs. Maybe three greens and three oolongs. Specific teas would
be great.

If it helps, I tend to like milder flavors. I have a strong aversion
for bitter. I cannot tolerate coffee or beer. I prefer red wine to
white, but not much of either, and fish or chicken to red meat (so I
end up drinking red wine with fish).

If you suggest some, I'll try them and report back.

BTW: You keep talking about stale tea. I looked at a dozen teas on
Teaspring and all of them said they were harvested in 2008 to 2006. I
would expect to consume a tea in a year or so.


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On Oct 31, 8:21*pm, Prof Wonmug > wrote:
> Would you care to suggest a few teas from Teaspring? I haven't had
> much luck with blacks so far, so I think I'll concentrate on greens
> and oolongs. Maybe three greens and three oolongs. Specific teas would
> be great.
>
> If it helps, I tend to like milder flavors. I have a strong aversion
> for bitter. I cannot tolerate coffee or beer. I prefer red wine to
> white, but not much of either, and fish or chicken to red meat (so I
> end up drinking red wine with fish).
>
> If you suggest some, I'll try them and report back.
>
> BTW: You keep talking about stale tea. I looked at a dozen teas on
> Teaspring and all of them said they were harvested in 2008 to 2006. I
> would expect to consume a tea in a year or so.


I really wanted to stay away from naming specific teas to allow for
each individual to just go with what they were drawn to naturally
within those categories, but since you asked I'll say that of their
greens I enjoy (and would fit your likes): Bi Lo Chun, Long Jing,
Jasmine Pearls, and Zhu Ye Qing. As well as the Huo Shan Huang Ya I
mentioned earlier which is a yellow tea, but wonderful and mild and
sweet and like a green. I have tried and not liked teaspring's Tai
Ping Hou Kui and the Huang Shan Mao Feng. Again, I think it is just
the site that doesn't always get updated because I have had some very
fresh teas from them... I have had one order of bi lo chun and one
order of Huo Shan Huang Ya that were not very fresh... but those were
two instances in over 10+ orders.

My wife loves Teaspring's Shui Xian, I find it a little lacking but
still a very good example. The Yunnan Gold is good, malty and a little
sweet. The Long Jing Huang Pao is my favorite black tea from them, but
expensive and it is an odd flavor reminiscent of over-ripe funky
fruit... so that may not be for everyone. I can't say how their Keemun
is because I have not ordered that from them. Same for the flowery/
green oolong... they aren't a favorite of mine so I don't regularly
order them at all. Most of the last ones I had were from Stephane
Erler's Tea Masters Blog, and while they were super quality, I still
didn't find much to like.

Hopefully that helps (I do know I just re-mentioned many of the names
from the list, but I don't want to steer you too much) If Teaspring
offers more than one in any of those mentioned, you can be safe going
with the least expensive of each category, or splurge if something
catches your eye. It is an individual process and the 10 teas listed
really are just a selection of teas that cover most of the specific
flavors found in tea in the least number of teas possible.

- Dominic
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On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 06:19:58 -0800 (PST), "Dominic T."
> wrote:

>On Oct 31, 8:21*pm, Prof Wonmug > wrote:
>> Would you care to suggest a few teas from Teaspring? I haven't had
>> much luck with blacks so far, so I think I'll concentrate on greens
>> and oolongs. Maybe three greens and three oolongs. Specific teas would
>> be great.
>>
>> If it helps, I tend to like milder flavors. I have a strong aversion
>> for bitter. I cannot tolerate coffee or beer. I prefer red wine to
>> white, but not much of either, and fish or chicken to red meat (so I
>> end up drinking red wine with fish).
>>
>> If you suggest some, I'll try them and report back.
>>
>> BTW: You keep talking about stale tea. I looked at a dozen teas on
>> Teaspring and all of them said they were harvested in 2008 to 2006. I
>> would expect to consume a tea in a year or so.

>
>I really wanted to stay away from naming specific teas to allow for
>each individual to just go with what they were drawn to naturally


That's like a novice carpenter asking a journeyman what tools they
should buy for a starter set. The journeyman says, "Well, you'll need
a hammer, a drill, a set of screwdrivers, a level, etc..." The novice
goes to the hardware store and is overwhelmed by the choices for each
tool. He goes back to the journeyman and says, "They had 50 hammers,
30 drills, hundreds of screwdrivers, etc. Can you recommend a specific
tool for the type of carpentry I want to learn to do?" The journeyman
says, "I want you to experience the journey, so just buy whatever you
are drawn to."

>within those categories, but since you asked I'll say that of their
>greens I enjoy (and would fit your likes): Bi Lo Chun, Long Jing,
>Jasmine Pearls, and Zhu Ye Qing. As well as the Huo Shan Huang Ya I
>mentioned earlier which is a yellow tea, but wonderful and mild and
>sweet and like a green. I have tried and not liked teaspring's Tai
>Ping Hou Kui and the Huang Shan Mao Feng. Again, I think it is just
>the site that doesn't always get updated because I have had some very
>fresh teas from them... I have had one order of bi lo chun and one
>order of Huo Shan Huang Ya that were not very fresh... but those were
>two instances in over 10+ orders.
>
>My wife loves Teaspring's Shui Xian, I find it a little lacking but
>still a very good example. The Yunnan Gold is good, malty and a little
>sweet. The Long Jing Huang Pao is my favorite black tea from them, but
>expensive and it is an odd flavor reminiscent of over-ripe funky
>fruit... so that may not be for everyone. I can't say how their Keemun
>is because I have not ordered that from them. Same for the flowery/
>green oolong... they aren't a favorite of mine so I don't regularly
>order them at all. Most of the last ones I had were from Stephane
>Erler's Tea Masters Blog, and while they were super quality, I still
>didn't find much to like.
>
>Hopefully that helps (I do know I just re-mentioned many of the names
>from the list, but I don't want to steer you too much) If Teaspring
>offers more than one in any of those mentioned, you can be safe going
>with the least expensive of each category, or splurge if something
>catches your eye. It is an individual process and the 10 teas listed
>really are just a selection of teas that cover most of the specific
>flavors found in tea in the least number of teas possible.


Thanks for the specific recommendations. Very helpful. I appreciate
it.

Unfortunately, the TeaSpring website was a complete disaster. It is
riddled with bugs. I created an account and started adding teas to my
shopping cart. At some point, it created a second shopping cart, so
that I had teas in two places. Sometimes I would see one cart,
sometimes the other.

After I got all of the teas in one cart, I tried to checkout. I was
presented with the new user screen. I had to log in again.

When I finally got all of the information entered and clicked Make
Payment, I was told that my credit card was rejected. I use that card
all the time. It's perfectly good.

Backing up, I discovered that the program did not fill in my compelte
address, even though I provided all of that information when I created
my account. I reentered it manually, but the credit card was rejected
again.

This website is not ready for prime time.

Do you have another vendor to recommend? Maybe one with a working
website?
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On Nov 2, 12:17*pm, Prof Wonmug > wrote:
> On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 06:19:58 -0800 (PST), "Dominic T."
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> >On Oct 31, 8:21*pm, Prof Wonmug > wrote:
> >> Would you care to suggest a few teas from Teaspring? I haven't had
> >> much luck with blacks so far, so I think I'll concentrate on greens
> >> and oolongs. Maybe three greens and three oolongs. Specific teas would
> >> be great.

>
> >> If it helps, I tend to like milder flavors. I have a strong aversion
> >> for bitter. I cannot tolerate coffee or beer. I prefer red wine to
> >> white, but not much of either, and fish or chicken to red meat (so I
> >> end up drinking red wine with fish).

>
> >> If you suggest some, I'll try them and report back.

>
> >> BTW: You keep talking about stale tea. I looked at a dozen teas on
> >> Teaspring and all of them said they were harvested in 2008 to 2006. I
> >> would expect to consume a tea in a year or so.

>
> >I really wanted to stay away from naming specific teas to allow for
> >each individual to just go with what they were drawn to naturally

>
> That's like a novice carpenter asking a journeyman what tools they
> should buy for a starter set. The journeyman says, "Well, you'll need
> a hammer, a drill, a set of screwdrivers, a level, etc..." The novice
> goes to the hardware store and is overwhelmed by the choices for each
> tool. He goes back to the journeyman and says, "They had 50 hammers,
> 30 drills, hundreds of screwdrivers, etc. Can you recommend a specific
> tool for the type of carpentry I want to learn to do?" The journeyman
> says, "I want you to experience the journey, so just buy whatever you
> are drawn to."
>
>
>
> >within those categories, but since you asked I'll say that of their
> >greens I enjoy (and would fit your likes): Bi Lo Chun, Long Jing,
> >Jasmine Pearls, and Zhu Ye Qing. As well as the Huo Shan Huang Ya I
> >mentioned earlier which is a yellow tea, but wonderful and mild and
> >sweet and like a green. I have tried and not liked teaspring's Tai
> >Ping Hou Kui and the Huang Shan Mao Feng. Again, I think it is just
> >the site that doesn't always get updated because I have had some very
> >fresh teas from them... I have had one order of bi lo chun and one
> >order of Huo Shan Huang Ya that were not very fresh... but those were
> >two instances in over 10+ orders.

>
> >My wife loves Teaspring's Shui Xian, I find it a little lacking but
> >still a very good example. The Yunnan Gold is good, malty and a little
> >sweet. The Long Jing Huang Pao is my favorite black tea from them, but
> >expensive and it is an odd flavor reminiscent of over-ripe funky
> >fruit... so that may not be for everyone. I can't say how their Keemun
> >is because I have not ordered that from them. Same for the flowery/
> >green oolong... they aren't a favorite of mine so I don't regularly
> >order them at all. Most of the last ones I had were from Stephane
> >Erler's Tea Masters Blog, and while they were super quality, I still
> >didn't find much to like.

>
> >Hopefully that helps (I do know I just re-mentioned many of the names
> >from the list, but I don't want to steer you too much) If Teaspring
> >offers more than one in any of those mentioned, you can be safe going
> >with the least expensive of each category, or splurge if something
> >catches your eye. It is an individual process and the 10 teas listed
> >really are just a selection of teas that cover most of the specific
> >flavors found in tea in the least number of teas possible.

>
> Thanks for the specific recommendations. Very helpful. I appreciate
> it.
>
> Unfortunately, the TeaSpring website was a complete disaster. It is
> riddled with bugs. I created an account and started adding teas to my
> shopping cart. At some point, it created a second shopping cart, so
> that I had teas in two places. Sometimes I would see one cart,
> sometimes the other.
>
> After I got all of the teas in one cart, I tried to checkout. I was
> presented with the new user screen. I had to log in again.
>
> When I finally got all of the information entered and clicked Make
> Payment, I was told that my credit card was rejected. I use that card
> all the time. It's perfectly good.
>
> Backing up, I discovered that the program did not fill in my compelte
> address, even though I provided all of that information when I created
> my account. I reentered it manually, but the credit card was rejected
> again.
>
> This website is not ready for prime time.
>
> Do you have another vendor to recommend? Maybe one with a working
> website?


Honestly I have never had such issues with their website... what
browser are you using. I order all the time with Firefox. Really there
is no good alternative for Chinese teas of the level of quality for
the price. I promise you, I trusted Daniel enough that the tea for my
wedding came from him... and was outstanding.

I understand your comment on the journeyman/hammer analogy... but just
the same, I guarantee the tools you pick out day one (even if handed
an exact list) will not be the tools you are using in your second
year. You will have different likes/dislikes/feel/looks/etc. than even
a "master" carpenter and those will change and transform over time.
The reason I say to go with your gut when there is a choice to be
made, is that within those categories the variance is fairly subtle,
so if one leaps out at you for some reason (shape, color, price,
whatever) it will be fine, and the fact that *you* had some connection
with it instead of just picking up a shopping list verbatim from
someone else adds some personal attachment that otherwise wouldn't be
there. When you really define what you like and don't like then we can
offer more exact reference points and teas to shoot for. Just like the
blind choice of a framing hammer, a ball peen, and a waffle head of a
novice will all pound a nail into a board.

It's all about personal growth and experience and your own journey, I
am not trying to take you down a pre-recorded tourist trap attraction
with stops at A, B, and C. I don't herd well, and I would never herd
someone else. My journey had many years of terrible tea and no outside
help and a lot of disappointment and floundering with very few magical
moments, many would have given up, I'm just stubborn and persisted.
Later on as I wanted a better aha! to boo! ratio and still didn't have
a guide or help, I would turn to reading up on the particular area the
tea came from and tried to get a handle on the history and providence
which would often result in if even still a mediocre cup a cup that I
understood and "felt" more which added a bit to the taste in the mind.

- Dominic
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Default 10 Teas to Start With

Dont buy any teas from a website that cant sell you any. You read
that Homer Simpson syllogism correctly. Your trouble with websites is
just beginning. Youre better off driving to a tea shoppe across town,
across state, across country every 6 months to stock up. I dont
consider it unreasonable for a $200 round trip to SF Chinatown by air
from where I live. Youll learn more in one day than $200 worth of
website guessing. Hey I was in Teavana the other day and didnt get
accosted by any employee. The store was empty. They have $6 8oz
double wall classes like my $12 Pavina. I cant find a cheap
percolator for my puers. Theyre all in the $50+ range.

Jim

On Nov 2, 10:17 am, Prof Wonmug > wrote:
> On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 06:19:58 -0800 (PST), "Dominic T."
>
> >I really wanted to stay away from naming specific teas to allow for
> >each individual to just go with what they were drawn to naturally

>
> That's like a novice carpenter asking a journeyman what tools they
> should buy for a starter set. The journeyman says, "Well, you'll need
> a hammer, a drill, a set of screwdrivers, a level, etc..." The novice
> goes to the hardware store and is overwhelmed by the choices for each
> tool. He goes back to the journeyman and says, "They had 50 hammers,
> 30 drills, hundreds of screwdrivers, etc. Can you recommend a specific
> tool for the type of carpentry I want to learn to do?" The journeyman
> says, "I want you to experience the journey, so just buy whatever you
> are drawn to."
>
>
>
> >within those categories, but since you asked I'll say that of their
> >greens I enjoy (and would fit your likes): Bi Lo Chun, Long Jing,
> >Jasmine Pearls, and Zhu Ye Qing. As well as the Huo Shan Huang Ya I
> >mentioned earlier which is a yellow tea, but wonderful and mild and
> >sweet and like a green. I have tried and not liked teaspring's Tai
> >Ping Hou Kui and the Huang Shan Mao Feng. Again, I think it is just
> >the site that doesn't always get updated because I have had some very
> >fresh teas from them... I have had one order of bi lo chun and one
> >order of Huo Shan Huang Ya that were not very fresh... but those were
> >two instances in over 10+ orders.

>
> >My wife loves Teaspring's Shui Xian, I find it a little lacking but
> >still a very good example. The Yunnan Gold is good, malty and a little
> >sweet. The Long Jing Huang Pao is my favorite black tea from them, but
> >expensive and it is an odd flavor reminiscent of over-ripe funky
> >fruit... so that may not be for everyone. I can't say how their Keemun
> >is because I have not ordered that from them. Same for the flowery/
> >green oolong... they aren't a favorite of mine so I don't regularly
> >order them at all. Most of the last ones I had were from Stephane
> >Erler's Tea Masters Blog, and while they were super quality, I still
> >didn't find much to like.

>
> >Hopefully that helps (I do know I just re-mentioned many of the names
> >from the list, but I don't want to steer you too much) If Teaspring
> >offers more than one in any of those mentioned, you can be safe going
> >with the least expensive of each category, or splurge if something
> >catches your eye. It is an individual process and the 10 teas listed
> >really are just a selection of teas that cover most of the specific
> >flavors found in tea in the least number of teas possible.

>
> Thanks for the specific recommendations. Very helpful. I appreciate
> it.
>
> Unfortunately, the TeaSpring website was a complete disaster. It is
> riddled with bugs. I created an account and started adding teas to my
> shopping cart. At some point, it created a second shopping cart, so
> that I had teas in two places. Sometimes I would see one cart,
> sometimes the other.
>
> After I got all of the teas in one cart, I tried to checkout. I was
> presented with the new user screen. I had to log in again.
>
> When I finally got all of the information entered and clicked Make
> Payment, I was told that my credit card was rejected. I use that card
> all the time. It's perfectly good.
>
> Backing up, I discovered that the program did not fill in my compelte
> address, even though I provided all of that information when I created
> my account. I reentered it manually, but the credit card was rejected
> again.
>
> This website is not ready for prime time.
>
> Do you have another vendor to recommend? Maybe one with a working
> website?

  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
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Default 10 Teas to Start With

On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 16:40:31 -0800 (PST), "Dominic T."
> wrote:

>On Nov 2, 12:17*pm, Prof Wonmug > wrote:
>> On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 06:19:58 -0800 (PST), "Dominic T."
>>
>>
>>
>> > wrote:
>> >On Oct 31, 8:21*pm, Prof Wonmug > wrote:
>> >> Would you care to suggest a few teas from Teaspring? I haven't had
>> >> much luck with blacks so far, so I think I'll concentrate on greens
>> >> and oolongs. Maybe three greens and three oolongs. Specific teas would
>> >> be great.

>>
>> >> If it helps, I tend to like milder flavors. I have a strong aversion
>> >> for bitter. I cannot tolerate coffee or beer. I prefer red wine to
>> >> white, but not much of either, and fish or chicken to red meat (so I
>> >> end up drinking red wine with fish).

>>
>> >> If you suggest some, I'll try them and report back.

>>
>> >> BTW: You keep talking about stale tea. I looked at a dozen teas on
>> >> Teaspring and all of them said they were harvested in 2008 to 2006. I
>> >> would expect to consume a tea in a year or so.

>>
>> >I really wanted to stay away from naming specific teas to allow for
>> >each individual to just go with what they were drawn to naturally

>>
>> That's like a novice carpenter asking a journeyman what tools they
>> should buy for a starter set. The journeyman says, "Well, you'll need
>> a hammer, a drill, a set of screwdrivers, a level, etc..." The novice
>> goes to the hardware store and is overwhelmed by the choices for each
>> tool. He goes back to the journeyman and says, "They had 50 hammers,
>> 30 drills, hundreds of screwdrivers, etc. Can you recommend a specific
>> tool for the type of carpentry I want to learn to do?" The journeyman
>> says, "I want you to experience the journey, so just buy whatever you
>> are drawn to."
>>
>>
>>
>> >within those categories, but since you asked I'll say that of their
>> >greens I enjoy (and would fit your likes): Bi Lo Chun, Long Jing,
>> >Jasmine Pearls, and Zhu Ye Qing. As well as the Huo Shan Huang Ya I
>> >mentioned earlier which is a yellow tea, but wonderful and mild and
>> >sweet and like a green. I have tried and not liked teaspring's Tai
>> >Ping Hou Kui and the Huang Shan Mao Feng. Again, I think it is just
>> >the site that doesn't always get updated because I have had some very
>> >fresh teas from them... I have had one order of bi lo chun and one
>> >order of Huo Shan Huang Ya that were not very fresh... but those were
>> >two instances in over 10+ orders.

>>
>> >My wife loves Teaspring's Shui Xian, I find it a little lacking but
>> >still a very good example. The Yunnan Gold is good, malty and a little
>> >sweet. The Long Jing Huang Pao is my favorite black tea from them, but
>> >expensive and it is an odd flavor reminiscent of over-ripe funky
>> >fruit... so that may not be for everyone. I can't say how their Keemun
>> >is because I have not ordered that from them. Same for the flowery/
>> >green oolong... they aren't a favorite of mine so I don't regularly
>> >order them at all. Most of the last ones I had were from Stephane
>> >Erler's Tea Masters Blog, and while they were super quality, I still
>> >didn't find much to like.

>>
>> >Hopefully that helps (I do know I just re-mentioned many of the names
>> >from the list, but I don't want to steer you too much) If Teaspring
>> >offers more than one in any of those mentioned, you can be safe going
>> >with the least expensive of each category, or splurge if something
>> >catches your eye. It is an individual process and the 10 teas listed
>> >really are just a selection of teas that cover most of the specific
>> >flavors found in tea in the least number of teas possible.

>>
>> Thanks for the specific recommendations. Very helpful. I appreciate
>> it.
>>
>> Unfortunately, the TeaSpring website was a complete disaster. It is
>> riddled with bugs. I created an account and started adding teas to my
>> shopping cart. At some point, it created a second shopping cart, so
>> that I had teas in two places. Sometimes I would see one cart,
>> sometimes the other.
>>
>> After I got all of the teas in one cart, I tried to checkout. I was
>> presented with the new user screen. I had to log in again.
>>
>> When I finally got all of the information entered and clicked Make
>> Payment, I was told that my credit card was rejected. I use that card
>> all the time. It's perfectly good.
>>
>> Backing up, I discovered that the program did not fill in my compelte
>> address, even though I provided all of that information when I created
>> my account. I reentered it manually, but the credit card was rejected
>> again.
>>
>> This website is not ready for prime time.
>>
>> Do you have another vendor to recommend? Maybe one with a working
>> website?

>
>Honestly I have never had such issues with their website... what
>browser are you using. I order all the time with Firefox. Really there
>is no good alternative for Chinese teas of the level of quality for
>the price. I promise you, I trusted Daniel enough that the tea for my
>wedding came from him... and was outstanding.
>
>I understand your comment on the journeyman/hammer analogy... but just
>the same, I guarantee the tools you pick out day one (even if handed
>an exact list) will not be the tools you are using in your second
>year. You will have different likes/dislikes/feel/looks/etc. than even
>a "master" carpenter and those will change and transform over time.


Of course. Beginners have different needs than experts. But that is
not my point.

>The reason I say to go with your gut when there is a choice to be
>made, is that within those categories the variance is fairly subtle,
>so if one leaps out at you for some reason (shape, color, price,
>whatever) it will be fine, and the fact that *you* had some connection
>with it instead of just picking up a shopping list verbatim from
>someone else adds some personal attachment that otherwise wouldn't be
>there.


A beginner's gut is often useless and sometimes dangerous. A shopping
list can be a tremendous aid.

>When you really define what you like and don't like then we can
>offer more exact reference points and teas to shoot for. Just like the
>blind choice of a framing hammer, a ball peen, and a waffle head of a
>novice will all pound a nail into a board.
>
>It's all about personal growth and experience and your own journey, I
>am not trying to take you down a pre-recorded tourist trap attraction
>with stops at A, B, and C. I don't herd well, and I would never herd
>someone else. My journey had many years of terrible tea and no outside
>help and a lot of disappointment and floundering with very few magical
>moments, many would have given up, I'm just stubborn and persisted.


It almost sounds like you want everyone to suffer as you did. My
mother used to say that if it was good enough for her it was good
enough for me. Nevermind that she was raised in the horse and buggy
days.

>Later on as I wanted a better aha! to boo! ratio and still didn't have
>a guide or help, I would turn to reading up on the particular area the
>tea came from and tried to get a handle on the history and providence
>which would often result in if even still a mediocre cup a cup that I
>understood and "felt" more which added a bit to the taste in the mind.


I find it amusing that you are protecting me from you. Did you have a
bad experience with nuns in your youth? I don't herd well, either, as
you might have guessed. I asked which hammer to buy. I am perfectly
capable of looking at the other hammers and maybe buying another one
that "catches me eye". But I will have the exact hammer recommended by
a master carpenter. If the one that "caught my eye" doesn't work so
well, I'll have the right one handy to compare and learn. Otherwise, I
go back to the store and see what else "catches my ignorant eye" or
just give up. I really don't want to learn by trial and error when
perfectly good (and, apparently, hard-earned) expertise is available.


  #16 (permalink)   Report Post  
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Default 10 Teas to Start With

On Nov 3, 11:35*am, Prof Wonmug > wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 16:40:31 -0800 (PST), "Dominic T."
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> >On Nov 2, 12:17*pm, Prof Wonmug > wrote:
> >> On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 06:19:58 -0800 (PST), "Dominic T."

>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >On Oct 31, 8:21*pm, Prof Wonmug > wrote:
> >> >> Would you care to suggest a few teas from Teaspring? I haven't had
> >> >> much luck with blacks so far, so I think I'll concentrate on greens
> >> >> and oolongs. Maybe three greens and three oolongs. Specific teas would
> >> >> be great.

>
> >> >> If it helps, I tend to like milder flavors. I have a strong aversion
> >> >> for bitter. I cannot tolerate coffee or beer. I prefer red wine to
> >> >> white, but not much of either, and fish or chicken to red meat (so I
> >> >> end up drinking red wine with fish).

>
> >> >> If you suggest some, I'll try them and report back.

>
> >> >> BTW: You keep talking about stale tea. I looked at a dozen teas on
> >> >> Teaspring and all of them said they were harvested in 2008 to 2006. I
> >> >> would expect to consume a tea in a year or so.

>
> >> >I really wanted to stay away from naming specific teas to allow for
> >> >each individual to just go with what they were drawn to naturally

>
> >> That's like a novice carpenter asking a journeyman what tools they
> >> should buy for a starter set. The journeyman says, "Well, you'll need
> >> a hammer, a drill, a set of screwdrivers, a level, etc..." The novice
> >> goes to the hardware store and is overwhelmed by the choices for each
> >> tool. He goes back to the journeyman and says, "They had 50 hammers,
> >> 30 drills, hundreds of screwdrivers, etc. Can you recommend a specific
> >> tool for the type of carpentry I want to learn to do?" The journeyman
> >> says, "I want you to experience the journey, so just buy whatever you
> >> are drawn to."

>
> >> >within those categories, but since you asked I'll say that of their
> >> >greens I enjoy (and would fit your likes): Bi Lo Chun, Long Jing,
> >> >Jasmine Pearls, and Zhu Ye Qing. As well as the Huo Shan Huang Ya I
> >> >mentioned earlier which is a yellow tea, but wonderful and mild and
> >> >sweet and like a green. I have tried and not liked teaspring's Tai
> >> >Ping Hou Kui and the Huang Shan Mao Feng. Again, I think it is just
> >> >the site that doesn't always get updated because I have had some very
> >> >fresh teas from them... I have had one order of bi lo chun and one
> >> >order of Huo Shan Huang Ya that were not very fresh... but those were
> >> >two instances in over 10+ orders.

>
> >> >My wife loves Teaspring's Shui Xian, I find it a little lacking but
> >> >still a very good example. The Yunnan Gold is good, malty and a little
> >> >sweet. The Long Jing Huang Pao is my favorite black tea from them, but
> >> >expensive and it is an odd flavor reminiscent of over-ripe funky
> >> >fruit... so that may not be for everyone. I can't say how their Keemun
> >> >is because I have not ordered that from them. Same for the flowery/
> >> >green oolong... they aren't a favorite of mine so I don't regularly
> >> >order them at all. Most of the last ones I had were from Stephane
> >> >Erler's Tea Masters Blog, and while they were super quality, I still
> >> >didn't find much to like.

>
> >> >Hopefully that helps (I do know I just re-mentioned many of the names
> >> >from the list, but I don't want to steer you too much) If Teaspring
> >> >offers more than one in any of those mentioned, you can be safe going
> >> >with the least expensive of each category, or splurge if something
> >> >catches your eye. It is an individual process and the 10 teas listed
> >> >really are just a selection of teas that cover most of the specific
> >> >flavors found in tea in the least number of teas possible.

>
> >> Thanks for the specific recommendations. Very helpful. I appreciate
> >> it.

>
> >> Unfortunately, the TeaSpring website was a complete disaster. It is
> >> riddled with bugs. I created an account and started adding teas to my
> >> shopping cart. At some point, it created a second shopping cart, so
> >> that I had teas in two places. Sometimes I would see one cart,
> >> sometimes the other.

>
> >> After I got all of the teas in one cart, I tried to checkout. I was
> >> presented with the new user screen. I had to log in again.

>
> >> When I finally got all of the information entered and clicked Make
> >> Payment, I was told that my credit card was rejected. I use that card
> >> all the time. It's perfectly good.

>
> >> Backing up, I discovered that the program did not fill in my compelte
> >> address, even though I provided all of that information when I created
> >> my account. I reentered it manually, but the credit card was rejected
> >> again.

>
> >> This website is not ready for prime time.

>
> >> Do you have another vendor to recommend? Maybe one with a working
> >> website?

>
> >Honestly I have never had such issues with their website... what
> >browser are you using. I order all the time with Firefox. Really there
> >is no good alternative for Chinese teas of the level of quality for
> >the price. I promise you, I trusted Daniel enough that the tea for my
> >wedding came from him... and was outstanding.

>
> >I understand your comment on the journeyman/hammer analogy... but just
> >the same, I guarantee the tools you pick out day one (even if handed
> >an exact list) will not be the tools you are using in your second
> >year. You will have different likes/dislikes/feel/looks/etc. than even
> >a "master" carpenter and those will change and transform over time.

>
> Of course. Beginners have different needs than experts. But that is
> not my point.
>
> >The reason I say to go with your gut when there is a choice to be
> >made, is that within those categories the variance is fairly subtle,
> >so if one leaps out at you for some reason (shape, color, price,
> >whatever) it will be fine, and the fact that *you* had some connection
> >with it instead of just picking up a shopping list verbatim from
> >someone else adds some personal attachment that otherwise wouldn't be
> >there.

>
> A beginner's gut is often useless and sometimes dangerous. A shopping
> list can be a tremendous aid.
>
> >When you really define what you like and don't like then we can
> >offer more exact reference points and teas to shoot for. Just like the
> >blind choice of a framing hammer, a ball peen, and a waffle head of a
> >novice will all pound a nail into a board.

>
> >It's all about personal growth and experience and your own journey, I
> >am not trying to take you down a pre-recorded tourist trap attraction
> >with stops at A, B, and C. I don't herd well, and I would never herd
> >someone else. My journey had many years of terrible tea and no outside
> >help and a lot of disappointment and floundering with very few magical
> >moments, many would have given up, I'm just stubborn and persisted.

>
> It almost sounds like you want everyone to suffer as you did. My
> mother used to say that if it was good enough for her it was good
> enough for me. Nevermind that she was raised in the horse and buggy
> days.
>
> >Later on as I wanted a better aha! to boo! ratio and still didn't have
> >a guide or help, I would turn to reading up on the particular area the
> >tea came from and tried to get a handle on the history and providence
> >which would often result in if even still a mediocre cup a cup that I
> >understood and "felt" more which added a bit to the taste in the mind.

>
> I find it amusing that you are protecting me from you. Did you have a
> bad experience with nuns in your youth? I don't herd well, either, as
> you might have guessed. I asked which hammer to buy. I am perfectly
> capable of looking at the other hammers and maybe buying another one
> that "catches me eye". But I will have the exact hammer recommended by
> a master carpenter. If the one that "caught my eye" doesn't work so
> well, I'll have the right one handy to compare and learn. Otherwise, I
> go back to the store and see what else "catches my ignorant eye" or
> just give up. I really don't want to learn by trial and error when
> perfectly good (and, apparently, hard-earned) expertise is available.


I think you are seeing this all far more adversarial than it is in
reality. If you notice I've typed pages of information here for you
and spent a lot of time compiling the initial list... I have nothing
to gain. I already enjoy tea, I know much of what I like, I get no
commission from teaspring or Uptons. I spend all this time and effort
in the hopes of helping others like yourself, and have for a number of
years.

I am saving you the failures and much of the trials by giving you 10
specific teas/categories to start with. I have been telling you that
as long as you buy any one tea in each of those categories you will be
miles ahead from someone who is just left to their own devices. If
there was some true pronounced difference or specific need then I'd
name specific teas, there isn't. In these categories they all more or
less are the same with subtle differences or characteristics. If you
went with Teaspring and ordered samples of the cheapest tea in each of
these 10 categories regardless of what it was, you will end up
perfectly fine and with a very good understanding of the differences.
If in one particular category something catches your eye or a
description/photo looks appealing... go for it. That's all I'm
saying.

At some point you either have to trust me in my effort to help, not
just you but anyone who would read my list, and trust that no matter
what you pick it won't make a groundbreaking difference even totally
blind... or don't. I'm telling you my only goal is to help, and to
save time, frustration, and money... not mine, yours. Not everything
is black and white and rigid and scientific, just let go a bit and
relax and enjoy the trip. There's no finish line, there is no
destination, it's just tea.

- Dominic
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Default 10 Teas to Start With

On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 16:40:31 -0800 (PST), "Dominic T."
> wrote:

>On Nov 2, 12:17*pm, Prof Wonmug > wrote:
>> On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 06:19:58 -0800 (PST), "Dominic T."
>>
>>
>>
>> > wrote:
>> >On Oct 31, 8:21*pm, Prof Wonmug > wrote:
>> >> Would you care to suggest a few teas from Teaspring? I haven't had
>> >> much luck with blacks so far, so I think I'll concentrate on greens
>> >> and oolongs. Maybe three greens and three oolongs. Specific teas would
>> >> be great.

>>
>> >> If it helps, I tend to like milder flavors. I have a strong aversion
>> >> for bitter. I cannot tolerate coffee or beer. I prefer red wine to
>> >> white, but not much of either, and fish or chicken to red meat (so I
>> >> end up drinking red wine with fish).

>>
>> >> If you suggest some, I'll try them and report back.

>>
>> >> BTW: You keep talking about stale tea. I looked at a dozen teas on
>> >> Teaspring and all of them said they were harvested in 2008 to 2006. I
>> >> would expect to consume a tea in a year or so.

>>
>> >I really wanted to stay away from naming specific teas to allow for
>> >each individual to just go with what they were drawn to naturally

>>
>> That's like a novice carpenter asking a journeyman what tools they
>> should buy for a starter set. The journeyman says, "Well, you'll need
>> a hammer, a drill, a set of screwdrivers, a level, etc..." The novice
>> goes to the hardware store and is overwhelmed by the choices for each
>> tool. He goes back to the journeyman and says, "They had 50 hammers,
>> 30 drills, hundreds of screwdrivers, etc. Can you recommend a specific
>> tool for the type of carpentry I want to learn to do?" The journeyman
>> says, "I want you to experience the journey, so just buy whatever you
>> are drawn to."
>>
>>
>>
>> >within those categories, but since you asked I'll say that of their
>> >greens I enjoy (and would fit your likes): Bi Lo Chun, Long Jing,
>> >Jasmine Pearls, and Zhu Ye Qing. As well as the Huo Shan Huang Ya I
>> >mentioned earlier which is a yellow tea, but wonderful and mild and
>> >sweet and like a green. I have tried and not liked teaspring's Tai
>> >Ping Hou Kui and the Huang Shan Mao Feng. Again, I think it is just
>> >the site that doesn't always get updated because I have had some very
>> >fresh teas from them... I have had one order of bi lo chun and one
>> >order of Huo Shan Huang Ya that were not very fresh... but those were
>> >two instances in over 10+ orders.

>>
>> >My wife loves Teaspring's Shui Xian, I find it a little lacking but
>> >still a very good example. The Yunnan Gold is good, malty and a little
>> >sweet. The Long Jing Huang Pao is my favorite black tea from them, but
>> >expensive and it is an odd flavor reminiscent of over-ripe funky
>> >fruit... so that may not be for everyone. I can't say how their Keemun
>> >is because I have not ordered that from them. Same for the flowery/
>> >green oolong... they aren't a favorite of mine so I don't regularly
>> >order them at all. Most of the last ones I had were from Stephane
>> >Erler's Tea Masters Blog, and while they were super quality, I still
>> >didn't find much to like.

>>
>> >Hopefully that helps (I do know I just re-mentioned many of the names
>> >from the list, but I don't want to steer you too much) If Teaspring
>> >offers more than one in any of those mentioned, you can be safe going
>> >with the least expensive of each category, or splurge if something
>> >catches your eye. It is an individual process and the 10 teas listed
>> >really are just a selection of teas that cover most of the specific
>> >flavors found in tea in the least number of teas possible.

>>
>> Thanks for the specific recommendations. Very helpful. I appreciate
>> it.
>>
>> Unfortunately, the TeaSpring website was a complete disaster. It is
>> riddled with bugs. I created an account and started adding teas to my
>> shopping cart. At some point, it created a second shopping cart, so
>> that I had teas in two places. Sometimes I would see one cart,
>> sometimes the other.
>>
>> After I got all of the teas in one cart, I tried to checkout. I was
>> presented with the new user screen. I had to log in again.
>>
>> When I finally got all of the information entered and clicked Make
>> Payment, I was told that my credit card was rejected. I use that card
>> all the time. It's perfectly good.
>>
>> Backing up, I discovered that the program did not fill in my compelte
>> address, even though I provided all of that information when I created
>> my account. I reentered it manually, but the credit card was rejected
>> again.
>>
>> This website is not ready for prime time.
>>
>> Do you have another vendor to recommend? Maybe one with a working
>> website?

>
>Honestly I have never had such issues with their website... what
>browser are you using. I order all the time with Firefox. Really there
>is no good alternative for Chinese teas of the level of quality for
>the price.


PS: Price is not a major concern. Tea isn't that expensive. Is there
another tea vendor that is, in your opinion, equal to or better than
TeaSpring?
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