Fairly often when I am trying to figure out the right brewing
parameters for a tea, I get a cup that is too much of something, but I
can't always tell whether it's too strong or bitter.

Is there some way I can learn how to tell the difference?

I think I can recognize when it's gotten very bitter, because of the
"bite". But when it's only slightly bitter, I have difficult
distinguishing that from just too strong.

Also, some of the strong blacks, like Assams, have a taste that is (to
me) a lot like bitter even when brewed for very short times.

Is it true that bitterness only occurs from steeping too long? I would
think that no tea would be bitter in a 30 second steep no matter how
much leaf is used. Is that right?

What I have done so far is try two more cups -- one at double the time
and one at half the time. That usually makes it clear. But I'd like to
learn to tell better just from tasting.

Prof Wonmug > writes:

> Fairly often when I am trying to figure out the right brewing
> parameters for a tea, I get a cup that is too much of something, but I
> can't always tell whether it's too strong or bitter.
>
> Is there some way I can learn how to tell the difference?

I'm not sure what "too strong" would mean if the liquor is neither too
bitter nor too astringent.

> I think I can recognize when it's gotten very bitter, because of the
> "bite". But when it's only slightly bitter, I have difficult
> distinguishing that from just too strong.
>
> Also, some of the strong blacks, like Assams, have a taste that is (to
> me) a lot like bitter even when brewed for very short times.
>
> Is it true that bitterness only occurs from steeping too long? I would
> think that no tea would be bitter in a 30 second steep no matter how
> much leaf is used. Is that right?

Not for me, at least. Last week I made some Assam that was too harsh
for me in 15 seconds. Too much leaf.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

On 18 Oct 2009 16:36:04 -0400, Lewis Perin > wrote:

>Prof Wonmug > writes:
>
>> Fairly often when I am trying to figure out the right brewing
>> parameters for a tea, I get a cup that is too much of something, but I
>> can't always tell whether it's too strong or bitter.
>>
>> Is there some way I can learn how to tell the difference?

Maybe I am looking for a difference that doesn't exist.

I have done tests where I brewed a tea at a low strength (<1g/cup) for
a long time (>5 min) and got a cup that seemed to me to be both weak
and bitter.

On the other hand, in trying some suggestions here for much more leaf
(3-5g/cup) for short times (10-30 seconds), I've gotten a cup that did
not have any of that biting bitterness, but was too strong.

Unless I'm way off base, I think I can detect the different when it's
extreme. The problem is when I brew something at medium strength for
medium time. If it's off, I can't always tell whether I should reduce
the amoubnt of leaf or the time.

>I'm not sure what "too strong" would mean if the liquor is neither too
>bitter nor too astringent.

I think I can detect astringency.

>> I think I can recognize when it's gotten very bitter, because of the
>> "bite". But when it's only slightly bitter, I have difficult
>> distinguishing that from just too strong.
>>
>> Also, some of the strong blacks, like Assams, have a taste that is (to
>> me) a lot like bitter even when brewed for very short times.
>>
>> Is it true that bitterness only occurs from steeping too long? I would
>> think that no tea would be bitter in a 30 second steep no matter how
>> much leaf is used. Is that right?
>
>Not for me, at least. Last week I made some Assam that was too harsh
>for me in 15 seconds. Too much leaf.

By "harsh" do you mean "bitter"?

On Oct 18, 6:12*pm, Prof Wonmug > wrote:
> On 18 Oct 2009 16:36:04 -0400, Lewis Perin > wrote:
>
> >Prof Wonmug > writes:
>
> >> Fairly often when I am trying to figure out the right brewing
> >> parameters for a tea, I get a cup that is too much of something, but I
> >> can't always tell whether it's too strong or bitter.
>
> >> Is there some way I can learn how to tell the difference?
>
> Maybe I am looking for a difference that doesn't exist.
>
> I have done tests where I brewed a tea at a low strength (<1g/cup) for
> a long time (>5 min) and got a cup that seemed to me to be both weak
> and bitter.
>
> On the other hand, in trying some suggestions here for much more leaf
> (3-5g/cup) for short times (10-30 seconds), I've gotten a cup that did
> not have any of that biting bitterness, but was too strong.
>
> Unless I'm way off base, I think I can detect the different when it's
> extreme. The problem is when I brew something at medium strength for
> medium time. If it's off, I can't always tell whether I should reduce
> the amoubnt of leaf or the time.
>
> >I'm not sure what "too strong" would mean if the liquor is neither too
> >bitter nor too astringent.
>
> I think I can detect astringency.
>
> >> I think I can recognize when it's gotten very bitter, because of the
> >> "bite". But when it's only slightly bitter, I have difficult
> >> distinguishing that from just too strong.
>
> >> Also, some of the strong blacks, like Assams, have a taste that is (to
> >> me) a lot like bitter even when brewed for very short times.
>
> >> Is it true that bitterness only occurs from steeping too long? I would
> >> think that no tea would be bitter in a 30 second steep no matter how
> >> much leaf is used. Is that right?
>
> >Not for me, at least. *Last week I made some Assam that was too harsh
> >for me in 15 seconds. *Too much leaf.
>
> By "harsh" do you mean "bitter"?

The basic steps, of approx. 1tsp of leaf to about 6oz. of water is
where to start almost always when unfamiliar. Then change time and
water temp to adjust. For a black tea go with boil or just off boil
water, start at 15 seconds. Go to 30, 45, etc. until you hit the sweet
spot for you.

There is no magic to this all, I think you are making it more
difficult than it needs to be... and some teas just will never be for
you. Assams are usually drunk with milk and or sugar/honey... if you
aren't up for that, then move to a new tea.

- Dominic

Prof Wonmug > writes:

> On 18 Oct 2009 16:36:04 -0400, Lewis Perin > wrote:
>
> >Prof Wonmug > writes:
> >> [...]
> >> I think I can recognize when it's gotten very bitter, because of the
> >> "bite". But when it's only slightly bitter, I have difficult
> >> distinguishing that from just too strong.
> >>
> >> Also, some of the strong blacks, like Assams, have a taste that is (to
> >> me) a lot like bitter even when brewed for very short times.
> >>
> >> Is it true that bitterness only occurs from steeping too long? I would
> >> think that no tea would be bitter in a 30 second steep no matter how
> >> much leaf is used. Is that right?
> >
> >Not for me, at least. Last week I made some Assam that was too harsh
> >for me in 15 seconds. Too much leaf.
>
> By "harsh" do you mean "bitter"?

Both, in this case

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html
recent addition: chayun

"Dominic T." > writes:

> [...]
> The basic steps, of approx. 1tsp of leaf to about 6oz. of water is
> where to start almost always when unfamiliar.

Sorry, but I really don't think it's this simple. One teaspoon of CTC
tea, which is extremely dense, is a *lot*. One teaspoon of a fluffy
whole leaf tea that hasn't been twisted or rolled, like some
leaf-and-a-bud white teas, can be barely enough to scent the water
it's steeped in. If you want a default starting place, the weight of
the leaves, not their volume, is what you need.

It's true that, with experience, a scale may not be necessary, but
only if you've become practiced at eyeballing the approximate weight
of the leaves you have in front of you no matter how they've been
manufactured.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

I think too much leaf means strong. I thing too much time means
bitter. One of the taste sensations is bitter. Try some Bakers
chocolate. I encounter bitter almost daily in Chinese greens. I
simply judge bitter by the tongue, throat, stomach. Ive had Samovar
tea that was cooked for hours that was strong and not bitter even when
diluted. Im on my last sips of a multiple infusion of Darjeeling
which causes my eyes to squint. It is not bitter or strong but more
like a chalky taste. I think tea taste is so sufficiently complex it
can only be appreciated and not analyzed. The Indians dont mess
around with Assam. They drink it as Chai. If you want to play around
with strong and bitter buy some British blends.

Jim

On Oct 18, 11:11 am, Prof Wonmug > wrote:
> Fairly often when I am trying to figure out the right brewing
> parameters for a tea, I get a cup that is too much of something, but I
> can't always tell whether it's too strong or bitter.
>
> Is there some way I can learn how to tell the difference?
>
> I think I can recognize when it's gotten very bitter, because of the
> "bite". But when it's only slightly bitter, I have difficult
> distinguishing that from just too strong.
>
> Also, some of the strong blacks, like Assams, have a taste that is (to
> me) a lot like bitter even when brewed for very short times.
>
> Is it true that bitterness only occurs from steeping too long? I would
> think that no tea would be bitter in a 30 second steep no matter how
> much leaf is used. Is that right?
>
> What I have done so far is try two more cups -- one at double the time
> and one at half the time. That usually makes it clear. But I'd like to
> learn to tell better just from tasting.

On Oct 19, 9:26*am, Lewis Perin > wrote:
> "Dominic T." > writes:
> > [...]
> > The basic steps, of approx. 1tsp of leaf to about 6oz. of water is
> > where to start almost always when unfamiliar.
>
> Sorry, but I really don't think it's this simple. *One teaspoon of CTC
> tea, which is extremely dense, is a *lot*. *One teaspoon of a fluffy
> whole leaf tea that hasn't been twisted or rolled, like some
> leaf-and-a-bud white teas, can be barely enough to scent the water
> it's steeped in. *If you want a default starting place, the weight of
> the leaves, not their volume, is what you need.
>
> It's true that, with experience, a scale may not be necessary, but
> only if you've become practiced at eyeballing the approximate weight
> of the leaves you have in front of you no matter how they've been
> manufactured.
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin /

Believe me I understand what you are saying, but I think the 1
teaspoon number is a good starting point still. I understand it varies
by leaf, but the average teabag contains about 2g of tea in it...
which is about a teaspoon for most unscientific reasonings. I see
people use 6g or more sometimes in brewing a cup of tea, I rarely see
someone brewing with too little such as only 1g or less. So the
concept of 1 teaspoon is valid... maybe not actually getting out a
teaspoon and measuring but the idea itself - even if he did actually
use a teaspoon in this case, I think he'd be OK. There has to be a
base to begin experimenting with. Once he tries 1 teaspoon and boiling
or near boil water and progresses through the 15 seconds up to a
minute or so brewings, I'd imagine one cup will stand out as the
"best". If it happens to be that none do or if it is that first 15
second steep cup, then I would say to halve the amount of leaf and go
through the steeps again.

The point I was trying to get at is that each tea requires a free-form
approach. The concept of a baseline of 1 tsp of leaf to 6 oz. water
and varying time upwards, is sound IMO... it's not the end, it is a
baseline to start. Once you dial in the baseline, then you have
somewhere to experiment from.

- Dominic

Prof Wonmug wrote:
> Fairly often when I am trying to figure out the right brewing
> parameters for a tea, I get a cup that is too much of something, but I
> can't always tell whether it's too strong or bitter.
>
> Is there some way I can learn how to tell the difference?
>
> I think I can recognize when it's gotten very bitter, because of the
> "bite". But when it's only slightly bitter, I have difficult
> distinguishing that from just too strong.

One thing to try is diluting the brewed tea with hot water. If the tea
is too strong you'll make two cups of good tea from one strong one.
The Russians make tea by diluting a concentrate (lots of leaves in a bit
of water) with hot water from a samovar.

> Also, some of the strong blacks, like Assams, have a taste that is (to
> me) a lot like bitter even when brewed for very short times.
>
> Is it true that bitterness only occurs from steeping too long? I would
> think that no tea would be bitter in a 30 second steep no matter how
> much leaf is used. Is that right?

Some teas have a natural bitterness, because some tea-drinkers prefer a
somewhat bitter cup. If you don't like it, pick another tea.

On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:29:53 +0200, Peter Roozemaal
> wrote:

>Prof Wonmug wrote:
>> Fairly often when I am trying to figure out the right brewing
>> parameters for a tea, I get a cup that is too much of something, but I
>> can't always tell whether it's too strong or bitter.
>>
>> Is there some way I can learn how to tell the difference?
>>
>> I think I can recognize when it's gotten very bitter, because of the
>> "bite". But when it's only slightly bitter, I have difficult
>> distinguishing that from just too strong.
>
>One thing to try is diluting the brewed tea with hot water. If the tea
>is too strong you'll make two cups of good tea from one strong one.
>The Russians make tea by diluting a concentrate (lots of leaves in a bit
>of water) with hot water from a samovar.

I've experimented with that a bit, but I need to try it again. The
problem that I found was that diluting the liquor amkes it weaker, but
it also diminishes the bitterness. I think I need to educate my palate
to be able to tell the difference between bitter (the kind that occirs
from steeping too long) and too strong.

>> Also, some of the strong blacks, like Assams, have a taste that is (to
>> me) a lot like bitter even when brewed for very short times.
>>
>> Is it true that bitterness only occurs from steeping too long? I would
>> think that no tea would be bitter in a 30 second steep no matter how
>> much leaf is used. Is that right?
>
>Some teas have a natural bitterness, because some tea-drinkers prefer a
>somewhat bitter cup. If you don't like it, pick another tea.

Some teas have more of a bite than others, to be sure. I was about to
discard that Assam, but I tried Dominic's suggestion of going all the
way down to a 15 second steep and I was able to find a set of
parameters that are not bad at all.

Of course, it's also possible that my tastes are changing. There are a
lot of food that I like know that I didn't 20 years ago and
vice-versa.

Prof Wonmug wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:29:53 +0200, Peter Roozemaal
> > wrote:
>
>> Prof Wonmug wrote:
>>> Also, some of the strong blacks, like Assams, have a taste that is (to
>>> me) a lot like bitter even when brewed for very short times.
>>>
>>> Is it true that bitterness only occurs from steeping too long? I would
>>> think that no tea would be bitter in a 30 second steep no matter how
>>> much leaf is used. Is that right?
>> Some teas have a natural bitterness, because some tea-drinkers prefer a
>> somewhat bitter cup. If you don't like it, pick another tea.
>
> Some teas have more of a bite than others, to be sure. I was about to
> discard that Assam, but I tried Dominic's suggestion of going all the
> way down to a 15 second steep and I was able to find a set of
> parameters that are not bad at all.

I tried a Ceylon a few months ago and while it was possible to brew
acceptable pots of tea, it was pale in comparison with a Yunnan or
Keemun. (You can't extract from the leaves what is not there.) I usually
have better experiences with Assams producing a malty or "tobaccoish" brew.
>
> Of course, it's also possible that my tastes are changing. There are a
> lot of food that I like know that I didn't 20 years ago and
> vice-versa.

Being aware of what you're eating and drinking and discussing it makes
you grow. And there is a natural tendency to prefer less sweet foods
when you grow older.

On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 11:19:23 +0200, Peter Roozemaal
> wrote:

>Prof Wonmug wrote:
>> On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:29:53 +0200, Peter Roozemaal
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Prof Wonmug wrote:
>>>> Also, some of the strong blacks, like Assams, have a taste that is (to
>>>> me) a lot like bitter even when brewed for very short times.
>>>>
>>>> Is it true that bitterness only occurs from steeping too long? I would
>>>> think that no tea would be bitter in a 30 second steep no matter how
>>>> much leaf is used. Is that right?
>>> Some teas have a natural bitterness, because some tea-drinkers prefer a
>>> somewhat bitter cup. If you don't like it, pick another tea.
>>
>> Some teas have more of a bite than others, to be sure. I was about to
>> discard that Assam, but I tried Dominic's suggestion of going all the
>> way down to a 15 second steep and I was able to find a set of
>> parameters that are not bad at all.
>
>I tried a Ceylon a few months ago and while it was possible to brew
>acceptable pots of tea, it was pale in comparison with a Yunnan or
>Keemun. (You can't extract from the leaves what is not there.) I usually
>have better experiences with Assams producing a malty or "tobaccoish" brew.
>>
>> Of course, it's also possible that my tastes are changing. There are a
>> lot of food that I like know that I didn't 20 years ago and
>> vice-versa.
>
>Being aware of what you're eating and drinking and discussing it makes
>you grow. And there is a natural tendency to prefer less sweet foods
>when you grow older.

That's for sure. When I was a kid, we used to pour so much sugar on
our Cheerios, that there would be a sugary sludge in the bottom of the
bowl that we would drink at the end. That was the best part. It makes
me gag just to think about it now. ;-)

This was before sweetened cereals, but I bet we would have added sugar
to sweetened cereals, too.

On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 15:20:41 -0700 (PDT), "Dominic T."
> wrote:

>On Oct 18, 6:12*pm, Prof Wonmug > wrote:
>> On 18 Oct 2009 16:36:04 -0400, Lewis Perin > wrote:
>>
>> >Prof Wonmug > writes:
>>
>> >> Fairly often when I am trying to figure out the right brewing
>> >> parameters for a tea, I get a cup that is too much of something, but I
>> >> can't always tell whether it's too strong or bitter.
>>
>> >> Is there some way I can learn how to tell the difference?
>>
>> Maybe I am looking for a difference that doesn't exist.
>>
>> I have done tests where I brewed a tea at a low strength (<1g/cup) for
>> a long time (>5 min) and got a cup that seemed to me to be both weak
>> and bitter.
>>
>> On the other hand, in trying some suggestions here for much more leaf
>> (3-5g/cup) for short times (10-30 seconds), I've gotten a cup that did
>> not have any of that biting bitterness, but was too strong.
>>
>> Unless I'm way off base, I think I can detect the different when it's
>> extreme. The problem is when I brew something at medium strength for
>> medium time. If it's off, I can't always tell whether I should reduce
>> the amoubnt of leaf or the time.
>>
>> >I'm not sure what "too strong" would mean if the liquor is neither too
>> >bitter nor too astringent.
>>
>> I think I can detect astringency.
>>
>> >> I think I can recognize when it's gotten very bitter, because of the
>> >> "bite". But when it's only slightly bitter, I have difficult
>> >> distinguishing that from just too strong.
>>
>> >> Also, some of the strong blacks, like Assams, have a taste that is (to
>> >> me) a lot like bitter even when brewed for very short times.
>>
>> >> Is it true that bitterness only occurs from steeping too long? I would
>> >> think that no tea would be bitter in a 30 second steep no matter how
>> >> much leaf is used. Is that right?
>>
>> >Not for me, at least. *Last week I made some Assam that was too harsh
>> >for me in 15 seconds. *Too much leaf.
>>
>> By "harsh" do you mean "bitter"?
>
>The basic steps, of approx. 1tsp of leaf to about 6oz. of water is
>where to start almost always when unfamiliar. Then change time and
>water temp to adjust. For a black tea go with boil or just off boil
>water, start at 15 seconds. Go to 30, 45, etc. until you hit the sweet
>spot for you.

Dominic,

I just wanted to thank you for these tips. I was brewing most teas way
too strong and way too long. Since you posted this, I've been trying
much less leaf and much shorter steep times. The results are
remarkable. I've even been able to reclaim a couple of teas that I had
given up on.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your experience.

I also discovered that I was mistakenly calling some pots "too weak"
when they were actually too strong. Some teas with some parameters
produce a taste that, for lack of a better work, seem "hollow" or
"empty" to me. Having used that label, I concluded that they were too
weak and spent most of my time testing more leaf and longer times,
which actually made the situation worse.

On Nov 21, 3:30*pm, Prof Wonmug > wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 15:20:41 -0700 (PDT), "Dominic T."
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> >On Oct 18, 6:12*pm, Prof Wonmug > wrote:
> >> On 18 Oct 2009 16:36:04 -0400, Lewis Perin > wrote:
>
> >> >Prof Wonmug > writes:
>
> >> >> Fairly often when I am trying to figure out the right brewing
> >> >> parameters for a tea, I get a cup that is too much of something, but I
> >> >> can't always tell whether it's too strong or bitter.
>
> >> >> Is there some way I can learn how to tell the difference?
>
> >> Maybe I am looking for a difference that doesn't exist.
>
> >> I have done tests where I brewed a tea at a low strength (<1g/cup) for
> >> a long time (>5 min) and got a cup that seemed to me to be both weak
> >> and bitter.
>
> >> On the other hand, in trying some suggestions here for much more leaf
> >> (3-5g/cup) for short times (10-30 seconds), I've gotten a cup that did
> >> not have any of that biting bitterness, but was too strong.
>
> >> Unless I'm way off base, I think I can detect the different when it's
> >> extreme. The problem is when I brew something at medium strength for
> >> medium time. If it's off, I can't always tell whether I should reduce
> >> the amoubnt of leaf or the time.
>
> >> >I'm not sure what "too strong" would mean if the liquor is neither too
> >> >bitter nor too astringent.
>
> >> I think I can detect astringency.
>
> >> >> I think I can recognize when it's gotten very bitter, because of the
> >> >> "bite". But when it's only slightly bitter, I have difficult
> >> >> distinguishing that from just too strong.
>
> >> >> Also, some of the strong blacks, like Assams, have a taste that is (to
> >> >> me) a lot like bitter even when brewed for very short times.
>
> >> >> Is it true that bitterness only occurs from steeping too long? I would
> >> >> think that no tea would be bitter in a 30 second steep no matter how
> >> >> much leaf is used. Is that right?
>
> >> >Not for me, at least. *Last week I made some Assam that was too harsh
> >> >for me in 15 seconds. *Too much leaf.
>
> >> By "harsh" do you mean "bitter"?
>
> >The basic steps, of approx. 1tsp of leaf to about 6oz. of water is
> >where to start almost always when unfamiliar. Then change time and
> >water temp to adjust. For a black tea go with boil or just off boil
> >water, start at 15 seconds. Go to 30, 45, etc. until you hit the sweet
> >spot for you.
>
> Dominic,
>
> I just wanted to thank you for these tips. I was brewing most teas way
> too strong and way too long. Since you posted this, I've been trying
> much less leaf and much shorter steep times. The results are
> remarkable. I've even been able to reclaim a couple of teas that I had
> given up on.
>
> Anyway, thanks for sharing your experience.
>
> I also discovered that I was mistakenly calling some pots "too weak"
> when they were actually too strong. Some teas with some parameters
> produce a taste that, for lack of a better work, seem "hollow" or
> "empty" to me. Having used that label, I concluded that they were too
> weak and spent most of my time testing more leaf and longer times,
> which actually made the situation worse.

You're very welcome, I wasn't just being a pain... I'm really glad it
helped.

- Dominic

"Prof Wonmug" > wrote in message ...
> On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 15:20:41 -0700 (PDT), "Dominic T."
> > wrote:
>
>>On Oct 18, 6:12 pm, Prof Wonmug > wrote:
>>> On 18 Oct 2009 16:36:04 -0400, Lewis Perin > wrote:
>>>
>>> >Prof Wonmug > writes:
>>>
>>> >> Fairly often when I am trying to figure out the right brewing
>>> >> parameters for a tea, I get a cup that is too much of something, but I
>>> >> can't always tell whether it's too strong or bitter.
>>>
>>> >> Is there some way I can learn how to tell the difference?
>>>
>>> Maybe I am looking for a difference that doesn't exist.
>>>
>>> I have done tests where I brewed a tea at a low strength (<1g/cup) for
>>> a long time (>5 min) and got a cup that seemed to me to be both weak
>>> and bitter.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, in trying some suggestions here for much more leaf
>>> (3-5g/cup) for short times (10-30 seconds), I've gotten a cup that did
>>> not have any of that biting bitterness, but was too strong.
>>>
>>> Unless I'm way off base, I think I can detect the different when it's
>>> extreme. The problem is when I brew something at medium strength for
>>> medium time. If it's off, I can't always tell whether I should reduce
>>> the amoubnt of leaf or the time.
>>>
>>> >I'm not sure what "too strong" would mean if the liquor is neither too
>>> >bitter nor too astringent.
>>>
>>> I think I can detect astringency.
>>>
>>> >> I think I can recognize when it's gotten very bitter, because of the
>>> >> "bite". But when it's only slightly bitter, I have difficult
>>> >> distinguishing that from just too strong.
>>>
>>> >> Also, some of the strong blacks, like Assams, have a taste that is (to
>>> >> me) a lot like bitter even when brewed for very short times.
>>>
>>> >> Is it true that bitterness only occurs from steeping too long? I would
>>> >> think that no tea would be bitter in a 30 second steep no matter how
>>> >> much leaf is used. Is that right?
>>>
>>> >Not for me, at least. Last week I made some Assam that was too harsh
>>> >for me in 15 seconds. Too much leaf.
>>>
>>> By "harsh" do you mean "bitter"?
>>
>>The basic steps, of approx. 1tsp of leaf to about 6oz. of water is
>>where to start almost always when unfamiliar. Then change time and
>>water temp to adjust. For a black tea go with boil or just off boil
>>water, start at 15 seconds. Go to 30, 45, etc. until you hit the sweet
>>spot for you.
>
> Dominic,
>
> I just wanted to thank you for these tips. I was brewing most teas way
> too strong and way too long. Since you posted this, I've been trying
> much less leaf and much shorter steep times. The results are
> remarkable. I've even been able to reclaim a couple of teas that I had
> given up on.

It's a sort of amazing revelation, for I thought that what I have given up on
can't have any saving grace except for being a trash, for you can't pull out
no matter how much you tried any from what is not there in the first place.

What we are seeking here is a tea which gives tea taste and tea smell,
which 'whiffs' you no sooner than you open the package.

But you say you have been able to recover the 'impossible'.
Would you please kindly give us more detail, so we can know
what is done and how it is done.

>
> Anyway, thanks for sharing your experience.
>
> I also discovered that I was mistakenly calling some pots "too weak"
> when they were actually too strong. Some teas with some parameters
> produce a taste that, for lack of a better work, seem "hollow" or
> "empty" to me. Having used that label, I concluded that they were too
> weak and spent most of my time testing more leaf and longer times,
> which actually made the situation worse.

On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 13:14:50 +0900, "chance" >
wrote:

>
>"Prof Wonmug" > wrote in message ...
>> On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 15:20:41 -0700 (PDT), "Dominic T."
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>On Oct 18, 6:12 pm, Prof Wonmug > wrote:
>>>> On 18 Oct 2009 16:36:04 -0400, Lewis Perin > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >Prof Wonmug > writes:
>>>>
>>>> >> Fairly often when I am trying to figure out the right brewing
>>>> >> parameters for a tea, I get a cup that is too much of something, but I
>>>> >> can't always tell whether it's too strong or bitter.
>>>>
>>>> >> Is there some way I can learn how to tell the difference?
>>>>
>>>> Maybe I am looking for a difference that doesn't exist.
>>>>
>>>> I have done tests where I brewed a tea at a low strength (<1g/cup) for
>>>> a long time (>5 min) and got a cup that seemed to me to be both weak
>>>> and bitter.
>>>>
>>>> On the other hand, in trying some suggestions here for much more leaf
>>>> (3-5g/cup) for short times (10-30 seconds), I've gotten a cup that did
>>>> not have any of that biting bitterness, but was too strong.
>>>>
>>>> Unless I'm way off base, I think I can detect the different when it's
>>>> extreme. The problem is when I brew something at medium strength for
>>>> medium time. If it's off, I can't always tell whether I should reduce
>>>> the amoubnt of leaf or the time.
>>>>
>>>> >I'm not sure what "too strong" would mean if the liquor is neither too
>>>> >bitter nor too astringent.
>>>>
>>>> I think I can detect astringency.
>>>>
>>>> >> I think I can recognize when it's gotten very bitter, because of the
>>>> >> "bite". But when it's only slightly bitter, I have difficult
>>>> >> distinguishing that from just too strong.
>>>>
>>>> >> Also, some of the strong blacks, like Assams, have a taste that is (to
>>>> >> me) a lot like bitter even when brewed for very short times.
>>>>
>>>> >> Is it true that bitterness only occurs from steeping too long? I would
>>>> >> think that no tea would be bitter in a 30 second steep no matter how
>>>> >> much leaf is used. Is that right?
>>>>
>>>> >Not for me, at least. Last week I made some Assam that was too harsh
>>>> >for me in 15 seconds. Too much leaf.
>>>>
>>>> By "harsh" do you mean "bitter"?
>>>
>>>The basic steps, of approx. 1tsp of leaf to about 6oz. of water is
>>>where to start almost always when unfamiliar. Then change time and
>>>water temp to adjust. For a black tea go with boil or just off boil
>>>water, start at 15 seconds. Go to 30, 45, etc. until you hit the sweet
>>>spot for you.
>>
>> Dominic,
>>
>> I just wanted to thank you for these tips. I was brewing most teas way
>> too strong and way too long. Since you posted this, I've been trying
>> much less leaf and much shorter steep times. The results are
>> remarkable. I've even been able to reclaim a couple of teas that I had
>> given up on.
>
>It's a sort of amazing revelation, for I thought that what I have given up on
>can't have any saving grace except for being a trash, for you can't pull out
>no matter how much you tried any from what is not there in the first place.
>
>What we are seeking here is a tea which gives tea taste and tea smell,
>which 'whiffs' you no sooner than you open the package.
>
>But you say you have been able to recover the 'impossible'.
>Would you please kindly give us more detail, so we can know
>what is done and how it is done.

I'm not sure what more I can say. I was brewing several teas too
strong and too long. I am now using much less leaf and much shorter
steep times. I don't recall saying anything about the 'impossible'.