I have a 1/4 pound bag of Wakamidori Sencha from Holy Mountain. The
leaf looks a lot like grass clippings and there is quite a bit of
powder. Is that how it is supposed to be?

I have a very fine mesh strainer, but quite a bit of sediment gets
through. The liquor is a greenish-yellow color (not the most appealing
color) and quite cloudy. As I get to the bottom of the pot, it gets
quite a bit darker.

It has an unusual taste and it smells a little like a field or a
freshly cut lawn. There is also some odd after taste.

I steeped it at 2.5 g/cup (180 ml) at 170 degrees for 2:00 minutes.

I am going to try it at half that strength and see what happens.

This is probably not one I will buy again unless I find a better way
to prepare it.

Square Peg > writes:

> I have a 1/4 pound bag of Wakamidori Sencha from Holy Mountain. The
> leaf looks a lot like grass clippings and there is quite a bit of
> powder. Is that how it is supposed to be?

Doesn't sound bad to me. Sencha is *different*.

> I have a very fine mesh strainer, but quite a bit of sediment gets
> through. The liquor is a greenish-yellow color (not the most appealing
> color) and quite cloudy. As I get to the bottom of the pot, it gets
> quite a bit darker.

You might come to like the thick texture.

> It has an unusual taste and it smells a little like a field or a
> freshly cut lawn. There is also some odd after taste.
>
> I steeped it at 2.5 g/cup (180 ml) at 170 degrees for 2:00 minutes.
>
> I am going to try it at half that strength and see what happens.

You might want to try it using (at least) the original amount of leaf
but with shorter steeps. Try a first steep of maybe 15 or 30 seconds
and a second steep that's virtually instantaneous. You might actually
like the second steep better. If this tea is really good, you might
get a good third steep, too.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Square Peg wrote:
> I have a 1/4 pound bag of Wakamidori Sencha from Holy Mountain. The
> leaf looks a lot like grass clippings and there is quite a bit of
> powder. Is that how it is supposed to be?
>
> I have a very fine mesh strainer, but quite a bit of sediment gets
> through. The liquor is a greenish-yellow color (not the most appealing
> color) and quite cloudy. As I get to the bottom of the pot, it gets
> quite a bit darker.
>
> It has an unusual taste and it smells a little like a field or a
> freshly cut lawn. There is also some odd after taste.
>
> I steeped it at 2.5 g/cup (180 ml) at 170 degrees for 2:00 minutes.
>
> I am going to try it at half that strength and see what happens.
>
> This is probably not one I will buy again unless I find a better way
> to prepare it.

I never had a japanese green I liked and at
this point I sort of given up on them. It
seems like some people just don't care for
them, although I never tried gyokuro, and
senchas I had were mid-grade.

On 2008-09-13, Lewis Perin > wrote:
> You might come to like the thick texture.

That happened to me.

I was indifferent the first few times I had it. Then, several years
later, I craved the flavor intensely for no particular reason. I got
two from Harney and Sons, and now they rank among my favorite teas
ever (Kagoshima sencha and an ichiban sencha (a Shizuoka fukamushi
cha)).

In fact, I think I'll have some Right Now. Thanks!

N.

Square Peg wrote:
> I steeped it at 2.5 g/cup (180 ml) at 170 degrees for 2:00 minutes.

You might try it rather cooler - say 140F. Some people are astonished at
the difference. To me, 170F will turn most Japanese greens into stewed
spinach: not just loss of many of the delicate and appealing flavor
elements, but the addition of unpleasant new ones.

Once water that hot has been added, re-steeping cooler won't help.
Conversely, one can always increase temperature as the delicate
components are extracted through multiple steeps.

I tend to start most teas rather cooler than is common practice, and
never use boiling water for anything except red tea or later steeps of
Pu-erh. With Japanese and some Chinese greens, my guideline is that
water too hot for a finger-dip is too hot for early brews. Some
co-tasters find this objectionable; others have been delighted by the
base flavors and nuances thus revealed.

FWIW, I've found that better Japanese greens are usually excellent from
the start. Lesser grades typically make a bitter, slightly acrid (but
not unpleasant) first steep, and then deliver two to four very smooth,
well-balanced steeps that decline in intensity but not quality until
little remains. Some Japanese with whom I've worked over there either
throw out the first steep as a rinse, or politely offer it to others.
I've also noticed that they tend to keep adding fresh bags to a
single-cup kyusu until it's getting crowded. I haven't asked, but I'm
guessing that this keeps caffeine levels high while averaging smoothness.

-DM

On 2008-09-14, DogMa > wrote:
> Square Peg wrote:
>> I steeped it at 2.5 g/cup (180 ml) at 170 degrees for 2:00 minutes.
>
> You might try it rather cooler - say 140F. Some people are astonished at
> the difference.

Huh, neat. I'll do that tomorrow. I only tend to like mine (at
160/170F) for twoish infusions at 3-5 minutes each. It'd be nice to
get more.

I tend to like a ratio around 1g leaf per 100mL water.


N.

On 13 Sep 2008 19:38:25 -0400, Lewis Perin > wrote:

>Square Peg > writes:
>
>> I have a 1/4 pound bag of Wakamidori Sencha from Holy Mountain. The
>> leaf looks a lot like grass clippings and there is quite a bit of
>> powder. Is that how it is supposed to be?
>
>Doesn't sound bad to me. Sencha is *different*.
>
>> I have a very fine mesh strainer, but quite a bit of sediment gets
>> through. The liquor is a greenish-yellow color (not the most appealing
>> color) and quite cloudy. As I get to the bottom of the pot, it gets
>> quite a bit darker.
>
>You might come to like the thick texture.

Actually, that's a good way to describe it. I was searching for an
adequate term.

>> It has an unusual taste and it smells a little like a field or a
>> freshly cut lawn. There is also some odd after taste.
>>
>> I steeped it at 2.5 g/cup (180 ml) at 170 degrees for 2:00 minutes.
>>
>> I am going to try it at half that strength and see what happens.
>
>You might want to try it using (at least) the original amount of leaf
>but with shorter steeps.

By "original", do you mean the same amount of leaf as I used above?

>Try a first steep of maybe 15 or 30 seconds
>and a second steep that's virtually instantaneous. You might actually
>like the second steep better. If this tea is really good, you might
>get a good third steep, too.

So,

1. Steep for 15-30 seconds?

2. Steep a second time as short as possible?

I'm using a glass teapot without an infuser. When the time is up. I
pour it through a fine mesh strainer into a cup or thermos, depending
on how much I'm making.

I think 10-15 seconds is about the shortest infusion I can manage, buy
the time I pour the hot water, replace the teapot, get the strainer,
and pour into the cup.

I was also going to try 2:00 minutes at less strength, just to see if
I like it at any strength.

On 14 Sep 2008 00:24:28 GMT, Natarajan Krishnaswami >
wrote:

>On 2008-09-13, Lewis Perin > wrote:
>> You might come to like the thick texture.
>
>That happened to me.
>
>I was indifferent the first few times I had it. Then, several years
>later, I craved the flavor intensely for no particular reason.

Hmmm... You don't suppose they put a little something extra in there
do you? I've heard that Coca-Cola (aka Coke) was not named that by
accident. ;-)

>I got
>two from Harney and Sons, and now they rank among my favorite teas
>ever (Kagoshima sencha and an ichiban sencha (a Shizuoka fukamushi
>cha)).
>
>In fact, I think I'll have some Right Now. Thanks!

de nada

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 03:17:05 GMT, DogMa >
wrote:

>Square Peg wrote:
>> I steeped it at 2.5 g/cup (180 ml) at 170 degrees for 2:00 minutes.
>
>You might try it rather cooler - say 140F. Some people are astonished at
>the difference. To me, 170F will turn most Japanese greens into stewed
>spinach:

Interesting that you say that. That was exactly what I thought of when
I emptied the teapot. It was almost the same color and consistency.

>not just loss of many of the delicate and appealing flavor
>elements, but the addition of unpleasant new ones.

Yep. It did have some odd after taste that I couldn't identify.

>Once water that hot has been added, re-steeping cooler won't help.
>Conversely, one can always increase temperature as the delicate
>components are extracted through multiple steeps.
>
>I tend to start most teas rather cooler than is common practice, and
>never use boiling water for anything except red tea or later steeps of
>Pu-erh. With Japanese and some Chinese greens, my guideline is that
>water too hot for a finger-dip is too hot for early brews. Some
>co-tasters find this objectionable; others have been delighted by the
>base flavors and nuances thus revealed.

What steep times do you use?

Do you keep the temperature at around 140 for subsequent steeps?

Could you fill in a table both for your approach both with and without
a rinse?

Steep Temp Time
1 140 m:ss
2 140 m:ss
3 140 m:ss
...

Steep Temp Time
0 140 m:ss (rinse, discard)
1 140 m:ss
2 140 m:ss
3 140 m:ss
...

Thanks

>FWIW, I've found that better Japanese greens are usually excellent from
>the start. Lesser grades typically make a bitter, slightly acrid (but
>not unpleasant) first steep, and then deliver two to four very smooth,
>well-balanced steeps that decline in intensity but not quality until
>little remains. Some Japanese with whom I've worked over there either
>throw out the first steep as a rinse, or politely offer it to others.
>I've also noticed that they tend to keep adding fresh bags to a
>single-cup kyusu until it's getting crowded. I haven't asked, but I'm
>guessing that this keeps caffeine levels high while averaging smoothness.
>
>-DM

On 14 Sep 2008 03:47:45 GMT, Natarajan Krishnaswami >
wrote:

>On 2008-09-14, DogMa > wrote:
>> Square Peg wrote:
>>> I steeped it at 2.5 g/cup (180 ml) at 170 degrees for 2:00 minutes.
>>
>> You might try it rather cooler - say 140F. Some people are astonished at
>> the difference.
>
>Huh, neat. I'll do that tomorrow. I only tend to like mine (at
>160/170F) for twoish infusions at 3-5 minutes each. It'd be nice to
>get more.
>
>I tend to like a ratio around 1g leaf per 100mL water.

Is this for all teas or just senchas?

I used 2.5g/cup (180 ml), which is about 1.4 g/100mL. I'll try it at
1g/100mL.

Square Peg wrote:
> What steep times do you use?
> Do you keep the temperature at around 140 for subsequent steeps?
> Could you fill in a table both for your approach both with and without
> a rinse?

Sorry; I'm way too lazy to keep track of such information. (And I only
rinse really filthy-looking teas. Hate to miss anything.) Besides,
that's not why I drink tea. Since someone brought up the MBTI, allow me
to refer to Rodger Bailey's LAB profile; some of us prefer "procedures"
and some "options." Or, to paraphrase the immortal words of a fictional
water vole, There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth
doing as simply messing about with pots.

-DM

DogMa > writes:

> Square Peg wrote:
> > I steeped it at 2.5 g/cup (180 ml) at 170 degrees for 2:00 minutes.
>
> You might try it rather cooler - say 140F. Some people are astonished
> at the difference. To me, 170F will turn most Japanese greens into
> stewed spinach: not just loss of many of the delicate and appealing
> flavor elements, but the addition of unpleasant new ones.
>
> Once water that hot has been added, re-steeping cooler won't
> help. Conversely, one can always increase temperature as the delicate
> components are extracted through multiple steeps.

Ah, right; thanks for mentioning this. Brewing the tea cooler will
make it sweeter and less astringent. If there's still a bit of summer
left wherever you are, you might try brewing the tea at room
temperature for maybe ten minutes. The tea will have so little
astringency its texture will be creamy.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Square Peg > writes:

> On 13 Sep 2008 19:38:25 -0400, Lewis Perin > wrote:
>
> >Square Peg > writes:
>
> >> It has an unusual taste and it smells a little like a field or a
> >> freshly cut lawn. There is also some odd after taste.
> >>
> >> I steeped it at 2.5 g/cup (180 ml) at 170 degrees for 2:00 minutes.
> >>
> >> I am going to try it at half that strength and see what happens.
> >
> >You might want to try it using (at least) the original amount of leaf
> >but with shorter steeps.
>
> By "original", do you mean the same amount of leaf as I used above?

Yes.

> >Try a first steep of maybe 15 or 30 seconds
> >and a second steep that's virtually instantaneous. You might actually
> >like the second steep better. If this tea is really good, you might
> >get a good third steep, too.
>
> So,
>
> 1. Steep for 15-30 seconds?
>
> 2. Steep a second time as short as possible?

Yes.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

On 14 Sep 2008 16:46:50 -0400, Lewis Perin > wrote:

>DogMa > writes:
>
>> Square Peg wrote:
>> > I steeped it at 2.5 g/cup (180 ml) at 170 degrees for 2:00 minutes.
>>
>> You might try it rather cooler - say 140F. Some people are astonished
>> at the difference. To me, 170F will turn most Japanese greens into
>> stewed spinach: not just loss of many of the delicate and appealing
>> flavor elements, but the addition of unpleasant new ones.
>>
>> Once water that hot has been added, re-steeping cooler won't
>> help. Conversely, one can always increase temperature as the delicate
>> components are extracted through multiple steeps.
>
>Ah, right; thanks for mentioning this. Brewing the tea cooler will
>make it sweeter and less astringent. If there's still a bit of summer
>left wherever you are, you might try brewing the tea at room
>temperature for maybe ten minutes. The tea will have so little
>astringency its texture will be creamy.

Do recommend increasing the amount of leaf for this method? 3g/cup?
more?

Hi Square Peg,
All those things you mentioned are just the stuff I like about this
tea, that sounds like this shincha Fukamushi this season and the tea
was almost thick and quite a lovely shade of green. But I used 1
standard red plastic teaspoon from tea g (cannot remember but it is a
"tea" spoon. I use 200 ml water 160 degrees. Short infusions . Ahh it
does smelll like a freshly cut lawnbut in a very good way. I remember
brewing it alot, like 3 times at least but the supply was much too low
for how much I loved this one...( I shoud have bought more)
Jenn

On Wed, 8 Oct 2008 20:40:15 -0700 (PDT), Jenn
> wrote:

>Hi Square Peg,
>All those things you mentioned are just the stuff I like about this
>tea, that sounds like this shincha Fukamushi this season and the tea
>was almost thick and quite a lovely shade of green. But I used 1
>standard red plastic teaspoon from tea g (cannot remember but it is a
>"tea" spoon. I use 200 ml water 160 degrees. Short infusions . Ahh it
>does smelll like a freshly cut lawnbut in a very good way. I remember
>brewing it alot, like 3 times at least but the supply was much too low
>for how much I loved this one...( I shoud have bought more)
>Jenn

I just tried a pot at 140F for 15 seconds per various suggestions and
got 3 very good steepings and a 4th that was OK. It was quite good. I
think I need to fiddle with the parameters a bit, but this may be a
good tea. When this bag is finished, I think I'll spring for a really
good top grade sencha and see how that goes.

Square Peg > writes:

> On 14 Sep 2008 16:46:50 -0400, Lewis Perin > wrote:
>
> >DogMa > writes:
> >
> >> Square Peg wrote:
> >> > I steeped it at 2.5 g/cup (180 ml) at 170 degrees for 2:00 minutes.
> >>
> >> You might try it rather cooler - say 140F. Some people are astonished
> >> at the difference. To me, 170F will turn most Japanese greens into
> >> stewed spinach: not just loss of many of the delicate and appealing
> >> flavor elements, but the addition of unpleasant new ones.
> >>
> >> Once water that hot has been added, re-steeping cooler won't
> >> help. Conversely, one can always increase temperature as the delicate
> >> components are extracted through multiple steeps.
> >
> >Ah, right; thanks for mentioning this. Brewing the tea cooler will
> >make it sweeter and less astringent. If there's still a bit of summer
> >left wherever you are, you might try brewing the tea at room
> >temperature for maybe ten minutes. The tea will have so little
> >astringency its texture will be creamy.
>
> Do recommend increasing the amount of leaf for this method? 3g/cup?
> more?

For me, this method doesn't require more leaf than hotter brewing.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

.. When this bag is finished, I think I'll spring for a really
> good top grade sencha and see how that goes.

I snipped,
Hello again square peg,
I have recently (in the last few years) have come to love sencha and I
agree it can be tricky to brew. SOme very kind and knowledgeable
people told me about schincha, which is the first picking of the tiny
shaded leaves of the season.. SO this spring I splurged and bought
some from 2 Japanese tea companies. I did tinker with it and found
it to be a most decent and hardly not astringent as the later picked
sencha. Now I plan to get some every year if I can afford to. I picked
up the fukamushi at hibikian cause I wasn't sure what to get so I
bought several varieties of their spring early greens..
I really really liked that one alot. All these early Japanese greens
are very much well almost like the sea, But very nicely, fragrant and
green and like a nice green meadow freshly cut.
I found like you, lower temps and faster brewings seem to bring out
the flavors I like best.
Jenn

On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 09:43:14 -0700 (PDT), Jenn
> wrote:

>. When this bag is finished, I think I'll spring for a really
>> good top grade sencha and see how that goes.
>
>I snipped,
>Hello again square peg,
>I have recently (in the last few years) have come to love sencha and I
>agree it can be tricky to brew. SOme very kind and knowledgeable
>people told me about schincha, which is the first picking of the tiny
>shaded leaves of the season.. SO this spring I splurged and bought
>some from 2 Japanese tea companies. I did tinker with it and found
>it to be a most decent and hardly not astringent as the later picked
>sencha. Now I plan to get some every year if I can afford to. I picked
>up the fukamushi at hibikian cause I wasn't sure what to get so I
>bought several varieties of their spring early greens..
>I really really liked that one alot. All these early Japanese greens
>are very much well almost like the sea, But very nicely, fragrant and
>green and like a nice green meadow freshly cut.
>I found like you, lower temps and faster brewings seem to bring out
>the flavors I like best.
>Jenn

So many varieties, so little time. ;-)

On 14 Sep 2008 16:46:50 -0400, Lewis Perin > wrote:

>DogMa > writes:
>
>> Square Peg wrote:
>> > I steeped it at 2.5 g/cup (180 ml) at 170 degrees for 2:00 minutes.
>>
>> You might try it rather cooler - say 140F. Some people are astonished
>> at the difference. To me, 170F will turn most Japanese greens into
>> stewed spinach: not just loss of many of the delicate and appealing
>> flavor elements, but the addition of unpleasant new ones.
>>
>> Once water that hot has been added, re-steeping cooler won't
>> help. Conversely, one can always increase temperature as the delicate
>> components are extracted through multiple steeps.
>
>Ah, right; thanks for mentioning this. Brewing the tea cooler will
>make it sweeter and less astringent. If there's still a bit of summer
>left wherever you are, you might try brewing the tea at room
>temperature for maybe ten minutes. The tea will have so little
>astringency its texture will be creamy.

What do you mean by "room temperature"?

I just tried a pot using water from the cold water tap, which was
about 65F. Thinking this might be a bit cooler than "room
temperature", and remembering comments about making "sun tea", which
is allowed to sit in the sun for hours, I let this pot brew for 30
minutes.

The result was quite interesting. It definitely had something of a
"creamy" texture, as you predicted, and absolutely no astringency. I
think there were some flavors that I don't recall from the pots I
brewed at 140F and certainly not at 170F.

But it seemed a bit on the strong side, for me. Did I brew it too
long? I have tried this tea several different ways. The best so far
was 15-30 seconds at 140F. This brew was not bad, but definitely not
as good as those.

Maybe I'll try it at something like 100F for 30-60 seconds. I'd like
to see if I can get that "creamy" texture with the mild sweetness I
got at 140F.

Square Peg > writes:

> On 14 Sep 2008 16:46:50 -0400, Lewis Perin > wrote:
> >[...]
> >Brewing the tea cooler will make it sweeter and less astringent.
> >If there's still a bit of summer left wherever you are, you might
> >try brewing the tea at room temperature for maybe ten minutes. The
> >tea will have so little astringency its texture will be creamy.
>
> What do you mean by "room temperature"?

I'm afraid I don't have a precise answer to that. It depends on the
weather.

> I just tried a pot using water from the cold water tap, which was
> about 65F. Thinking this might be a bit cooler than "room
> temperature", and remembering comments about making "sun tea", which
> is allowed to sit in the sun for hours, I let this pot brew for 30
> minutes.
>
> The result was quite interesting. It definitely had something of a
> "creamy" texture, as you predicted, and absolutely no astringency. I
> think there were some flavors that I don't recall from the pots I
> brewed at 140F and certainly not at 170F.
>
> But it seemed a bit on the strong side, for me. Did I brew it too
> long?

When I brew at room temperature, I usually let the first steep last 15
minutes.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html