Tea (rec.drink.tea) Discussion relating to tea, the world's second most consumed beverage (after water), made by infusing or boiling the leaves of the tea plant (C. sinensis or close relatives) in water.

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  #61 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 13-08-2008, 04:37 AM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Tap Water VS Bottled Water

On Aug 8, 1:15 pm, "Dominic T." wrote:

Almost all bottled water comes from those very same taps you find
troublesome just around the country. They filter the water and bottle
it. You can do the very same.
- Dominic


Where did you get this information from?
Answer: Plucked From Air. No one could ever know this without first
working for EVERY bottled water company on the planet.

ALMOST ALL ..
So where does the rest come from? Funny how you leave as many
questions as those you respond to.

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Old 13-08-2008, 04:49 AM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Tap Water VS Bottled Water

On Aug 12, 8:34*pm, Derek wrote:

Wrong again squirt. You've obviously never did the experiment or lie
because the balloon in the gaseous state is less than 5% water.


You're confusing "quantity" with "volume."


No, I meant quantity. After the balloon is emptied of water, less than
5% of the original water is left over and the balloon is full of ?
Answer the ?

I'm just getting tired.


Ok honest confession, but are you always this tired? Somebody get him
a doctor.
Not enough clean air is my first prognosis.
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Old 13-08-2008, 12:24 PM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Tap Water VS Bottled Water

While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Tuesday, August 12,
2008, rolled initiative and posted the following:

On Aug 12, 8:34*pm, Derek wrote:

Wrong again squirt. You've obviously never did the experiment or lie
because the balloon in the gaseous state is less than 5% water.


You're confusing "quantity" with "volume."


No, I meant quantity. After the balloon is emptied of water, less than
5% of the original water is left over and the balloon is full of ?
Answer the ?


That is a COMPLETELY different proposition than the one you wrote
previously. "[T]he balloon in the gaseous state is less than 5% water"
is not the same as "less than 5% of the original water is left over."
Please stick to a point rather than "correcting" me by changing the
issue.

In answer to your question, the balloon on the flask (we didn't use a
kettle) is not a closed system. We recovered less water than we boiled
because much of it pushed its way through the porous rubber of the
balloon. (Ever noticed that helium balloon shrink? It's because they
leak, not because helium gets more dense.)

The balloon eventually inverted under air pressure and was "sucked"
into the flask because there was less water and air in the system
after the experiment.

All of this is tangential to the point I'm challenging. Boiling water
does not cause it to "shed oxygen." Both oxygen and hydrogen are
highly reactive and quickly bond back together. That's why elecrolysis
requires two separate capturing vessels (as well as a catalyst).

Certainly, boiling water "frees" dissolved gasses that were in the
water. But their volume is significantly less than the volume of the
water in which they were previously dissolved.

I'm just getting tired.


Ok honest confession, but are you always this tired? Somebody get him
a doctor.
Not enough clean air is my first prognosis.


Actually, it was just late.

--
Derek

It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any
to just sit there with a dumb look on your face.
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Old 13-08-2008, 01:11 PM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Tap Water VS Bottled Water

Derek:

I think that no matter what way you put it, this is a losing argument,
the details will never get through his tinfoil hat and spark that
moment of comprehension...

Steve:

Out of curiosity - where are your facts cited from regarding pollution
rates of cars vs. ships? Can you please point me to the scientific
studies showing the reduction in pollution rates of hybrid cars, taking
into account the carbon costs of the production of these vehicles? You
insult others for not backing themselves up, so please do so yourself.

On 2008-08-13 07:24:16 -0400, Derek said:

While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Tuesday, August 12,
2008, rolled initiative and posted the following:

On Aug 12, 8:34*pm, Derek wrote:

Wrong again squirt. You've obviously never did the experiment or lie
because the balloon in the gaseous state is less than 5% water.

You're confusing "quantity" with "volume."


No, I meant quantity. After the balloon is emptied of water, less than
5% of the original water is left over and the balloon is full of ?
Answer the ?


That is a COMPLETELY different proposition than the one you wrote
previously. "[T]he balloon in the gaseous state is less than 5% water"
is not the same as "less than 5% of the original water is left over."
Please stick to a point rather than "correcting" me by changing the
issue.

In answer to your question, the balloon on the flask (we didn't use a
kettle) is not a closed system. We recovered less water than we boiled
because much of it pushed its way through the porous rubber of the
balloon. (Ever noticed that helium balloon shrink? It's because they
leak, not because helium gets more dense.)

The balloon eventually inverted under air pressure and was "sucked"
into the flask because there was less water and air in the system
after the experiment.

All of this is tangential to the point I'm challenging. Boiling water
does not cause it to "shed oxygen." Both oxygen and hydrogen are
highly reactive and quickly bond back together. That's why elecrolysis
requires two separate capturing vessels (as well as a catalyst).

Certainly, boiling water "frees" dissolved gasses that were in the
water. But their volume is significantly less than the volume of the
water in which they were previously dissolved.

I'm just getting tired.


Ok honest confession, but are you always this tired? Somebody get him
a doctor.
Not enough clean air is my first prognosis.


Actually, it was just late.



--
Cheers

Mike

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Old 13-08-2008, 09:18 PM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Tap Water VS Bottled Water

On Aug 13, 5:11*am, Mike Morton wrote:
Derek:

I think that no matter what way you put it, this is a losing argument,
the details will never get through his tinfoil hat and spark that
moment of comprehension...


Mike:

When I said let someone else take over the debate, I didn't mean
another slanderous empty argument troll take over.


Steve:

Out of curiosity - where are your facts cited from regarding pollution
rates of cars vs. ships? *Can you please point me to the scientific *
studies showing the reduction in pollution rates of hybrid cars, taking
into account the carbon costs of the production of these vehicles?


Mike:

Pure logic for one. Critical thinking for two. Opening my eyes for
three. Plug in the known data:

Using the west coast for example, how many ships are there? (ballpark
is good enough). Go to a busy harbor and guesstimate. 50? 100? How
many harbors are there? 100 down the west coast tops. 100X100=10,000
tops. How many cars are there (ballpark). In Los Angeles county, there
are more than one car per person! 5,000,000 cars. How many cars in
western states? Why the struggle with this? Grade two math.

You insult others for not backing themselves up, so please do so yourself..


Grow a pair of eyes and count the insults thrown at me vs ones thrown
back.


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Old 14-08-2008, 03:32 AM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Tap Water VS Bottled Water

On Aug 13, 5:49*pm, Derek wrote:
While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Wednesday, August
13, 2008, rolled initiative and posted the
following:

On Aug 13, 5:11*am, Mike Morton wrote:


SNIP

You insult others for not backing themselves up, so please do so yourself.


Grow a pair of eyes and count the insults thrown at me vs ones thrown
back.


I have gone to great effort to have a civil discussion, and have
avoided intentional insult in response to replies I don't like.


Short memory.

In
fact, I've actually spent time looking up facts and figures to make
sure that I got them right rather than pulling them out of some faded
memory.


Confirmed.


You, on the other hand, have not done likewise. So playing the
insulted victim seems like a case of a pot not looking in the mirror
before commenting on the kettle's sooty exterior.


Oh contrar, you've yet to answer one of my questions. I'll try one
last time. What's in the balloon after the water is allowed to strain
off?

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Old 14-08-2008, 03:38 AM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Tap Water VS Bottled Water

While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Wednesday, August
13, 2008, rolled initiative and posted the
following:

On Aug 13, 5:49*pm, Derek wrote:
While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Wednesday, August
13, 2008, rolled initiative and posted the
following:

On Aug 13, 5:11*am, Mike Morton wrote:


SNIP

You insult others for not backing themselves up, so please do so yourself.


Grow a pair of eyes and count the insults thrown at me vs ones thrown
back.


I have gone to great effort to have a civil discussion, and have
avoided intentional insult in response to replies I don't like.


Short memory.


Actually, it's rather long. I inherited my father's ability to hold
grudges.

In
fact, I've actually spent time looking up facts and figures to make
sure that I got them right rather than pulling them out of some faded
memory.


Confirmed.


You, on the other hand, have not done likewise. So playing the
insulted victim seems like a case of a pot not looking in the mirror
before commenting on the kettle's sooty exterior.


Oh contrar, you've yet to answer one of my questions. I'll try one
last time. What's in the balloon after the water is allowed to strain
off?


You're avoiding the issue. I never suggested that someone reading this
group doesn't have the brains to be insulted. Care to guess who wrote
that statement and to whom it was directed?

If you strain the condensed water out of the balloon, you've got an
empty balloon. But even that isn't the answer to your question about
why only 5% of the water remains.

I answered that question. Whether or not you can be bothered to read
my answer is up to you.

--
Derek

Communism is like one big phone company. (Lenny Bruce)
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Old 14-08-2008, 06:05 AM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Tap Water VS Bottled Water

On Aug 13, 7:38*pm, Derek wrote:

I have gone to great effort to have a civil discussion, and have
avoided intentional insult in response to replies I don't like.


Short memory.


Actually, it's rather long. I inherited my father's ability to hold
grudges.


I see that. Too bad he didn't give you a few "just answer the
question" genes. And where did you get your ADD gene from?

Oh contrar, you've yet to answer one of my questions. I'll try one
last time. What's in the balloon after the water is allowed to strain
off?


You're avoiding the issue. I never suggested that someone reading this
group doesn't have the brains to be insulted. Care to guess who wrote
that statement and to whom it was directed?


Truth hurts huh. One insult? Want me to got back and log all the
others thrown at me? I don't have the time.

If you strain the condensed water out of the balloon, you've got an
empty balloon. But even that isn't the answer to your question about
why only 5% of the water remains.


No, the balloon was still full. Can't you read or is it your short
term memory at work?

I answered that question. Whether or not you can be bothered to read
my answer is up to you.


I did, and nope, not even a half effort. Straight "Fs". Good work.

Like I said, I'll wait for someone else to handle a man's job.
Evidently not too many who have read this thread disagree with me.


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Old 14-08-2008, 01:00 PM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Tap Water VS Bottled Water

While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Thursday, August
14, 2008, rolled initiative and posted the
following:

On Aug 13, 7:38*pm, Derek wrote:

I have gone to great effort to have a civil discussion, and have
avoided intentional insult in response to replies I don't like.


Short memory.


Actually, it's rather long. I inherited my father's ability to hold
grudges.


I see that. Too bad he didn't give you a few "just answer the
question" genes. And where did you get your ADD gene from?


Considering that you're argument in this discussion has wandered
through various ideas rather than staying focused, I'd like to suggest
that you stay away from accusations of ADD.

Oh contrar, you've yet to answer one of my questions. I'll try one
last time. What's in the balloon after the water is allowed to strain
off?


You're avoiding the issue. I never suggested that someone reading this
group doesn't have the brains to be insulted. Care to guess who wrote
that statement and to whom it was directed?


Truth hurts huh. One insult? Want me to got back and log all the
others thrown at me? I don't have the time.


I am not responsible for what others have "thrown" at you. Neither
does the misbehavior of others taint my response.

If you strain the condensed water out of the balloon, you've got an
empty balloon. But even that isn't the answer to your question about
why only 5% of the water remains.


No, the balloon was still full. Can't you read or is it your short
term memory at work?


Then we're talking about two different experiments. If you've actually
read what I wrote, you could have noted this already.

I answered that question. Whether or not you can be bothered to read
my answer is up to you.


I did, and nope, not even a half effort. Straight "Fs". Good work.


If I was wrong, then tell me why. Repeatedly declaring that my
description is incorrect doesn't make it true.

I'm willing to admit being wrong when it's proven so. Declaring it to
be so, however, isn't proof.

Like I said, I'll wait for someone else to handle a man's job.
Evidently not too many who have read this thread disagree with me.


Silence from others does not prove their agreement with you. In fact,
the only comments posted by others in the discussion between you and I
have been disparaging of you, not of me.

--
Derek

A rolling stone gathers momentum.


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Old 14-08-2008, 04:14 PM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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On Aug 14, 5:00*am, Derek wrote:
I see that. Too bad he didn't give you a few "just answer the
question" genes. And where did you get your ADD gene from?


Considering that you're argument in this discussion has wandered
through various ideas rather than staying focused,


I've been very focused .. that is until I have to address your every
miander.

I'd like to suggest
that you stay away from accusations of ADD.


Once you stay away from miandering sure. It's a focused response.

Truth hurts huh. One insult? Want me to got back and log all the
others thrown at me? I don't have the time.


I am not responsible for what others have "thrown" at you. Neither
does the misbehavior of others taint my response.


I does subtley if you can see yourself from other's eyes. Subtley as
in the way you're being converted to see the reality of my argument
lol.
It's difficult not to throw in a few appropriate insults your way on
occasion. At least you cannot knock me for being accurate.

Then we're talking about two different experiments. If you've actually
read what I wrote, you could have noted this already.


Later troll. Let someone else take up the challenge. Your well is dry.
Meanwhile do the balloon test for yourself.
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Old 14-08-2008, 05:41 PM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Tap Water VS Bottled Water

While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Thursday, August
14, 2008, rolled initiative and posted the
following:

On Aug 14, 5:00*am, Derek wrote:
I see that. Too bad he didn't give you a few "just answer the
question" genes. And where did you get your ADD gene from?


Considering that you're argument in this discussion has wandered
through various ideas rather than staying focused,


I've been very focused .. that is until I have to address your every
miander.


And yet, you've still not answered the question I first posed. You
responded with a reference about a junior high experiment. But you
haven't yet explained how a physical reaction could have produced an
outcome only capable by a chemical reaction.

I'd like to suggest
that you stay away from accusations of ADD.


Once you stay away from miandering sure. It's a focused response.


If I've been meandering, it's because I've been following you.

Truth hurts huh. One insult? Want me to got back and log all the
others thrown at me? I don't have the time.


I am not responsible for what others have "thrown" at you. Neither
does the misbehavior of others taint my response.


I does subtley if you can see yourself from other's eyes. Subtley as
in the way you're being converted to see the reality of my argument
lol.


Asserting it doesn't make it so. Assuming it is there doesn't make it
so. And the reality is you still haven't answered the question I asked
at the very beginning of our interaction.

You've danced around it and expected me to answer it for you.

It's difficult not to throw in a few appropriate insults your way on
occasion. At least you cannot knock me for being accurate.


You've already been proven to misrepresent others' statements and
twist them to your benefit. Accuracy hasn't been your strong suit.

Then we're talking about two different experiments. If you've actually
read what I wrote, you could have noted this already.


Later troll. Let someone else take up the challenge. Your well is dry.
Meanwhile do the balloon test for yourself.


You've made a claim that you're unwilling, or unable, to support. If
you will not answer the question, it suggests that you actually cannot
support your argument.

You may call me a troll, if you like. It still doesn't mean you know
what you're writing about.

--
Derek

"Genius without education is like silver in the mine." -- Benjamin
Franklin
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Old 14-08-2008, 07:23 PM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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On Aug 14, 9:41*am, Derek wrote:
I've been very focused .. that is until I have to address your every
miander.


And yet, you've still not answered the question I first posed. You
responded with a reference about a junior high experiment. But you
haven't yet explained how a physical reaction could have produced an
outcome only capable by a chemical reaction.


Still can't explain away the balloon full of air huh? Not surprised.

Once you stay away from miandering sure. It's a focused response.


If I've been meandering, it's because I've been following you.


RTFLAO!

I does subtley if you can see yourself from other's eyes. Subtley as
in the way you're being converted to see the reality of my argument
lol.


Asserting it doesn't make it so.


No assertions, test results young lad. Where's your data?

Assuming it is there doesn't make it
so. And the reality is you still haven't answered the question I asked
at the very beginning of our interaction.


Get busy.


You've danced around it and expected me to answer it for you.


Yeah I got "dance to the music" on my ipod. Psych.


It's difficult not to throw in a few appropriate insults your way on
occasion. At least you cannot knock me for being accurate.


Bla bla bla do the test and put the trollisms aside until you do.


You've already been proven to misrepresent others' statements and
twist them to your benefit. Accuracy hasn't been your strong suit.


more bla

Meanwhile do the balloon test for yourself.


You've made a claim that you're unwilling, or unable, to support. If
you will not answer the question, it suggests that you actually cannot
support your argument.


Do the bloody test and shut up.


You may call me a troll, if you like. It still doesn't mean you know
what you're writing about.


That's what you are.

"Genius without education is like silver in the mine."


Agree. Sharpen those drill bits and load the explosives. Do the ballon
test. BFN.
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Old 15-08-2008, 12:06 AM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Tap Water VS Bottled Water

While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Thursday, August
14, 2008, rolled initiative and posted the
following:

On Aug 14, 9:41*am, Derek wrote:
I've been very focused .. that is until I have to address your every
miander.


And yet, you've still not answered the question I first posed. You
responded with a reference about a junior high experiment. But you
haven't yet explained how a physical reaction could have produced an
outcome only capable by a chemical reaction.


Still can't explain away the balloon full of air huh? Not surprised.


Still can't explain how you get a chemical reaction result from a
physical reaction, huh?

Once you stay away from miandering sure. It's a focused response.


If I've been meandering, it's because I've been following you.


RTFLAO!

I does subtley if you can see yourself from other's eyes. Subtley as
in the way you're being converted to see the reality of my argument
lol.


Asserting it doesn't make it so.


No assertions, test results young lad. Where's your data?

Assuming it is there doesn't make it
so. And the reality is you still haven't answered the question I asked
at the very beginning of our interaction.


Get busy.


Doing what? Your work for you?

You've danced around it and expected me to answer it for you.


Yeah I got "dance to the music" on my ipod. Psych.


It's difficult not to throw in a few appropriate insults your way on
occasion. At least you cannot knock me for being accurate.


Bla bla bla do the test and put the trollisms aside until you do.


Answer my original question and prove me wrong, and I'll do the test
following your specifications.

You've already been proven to misrepresent others' statements and
twist them to your benefit. Accuracy hasn't been your strong suit.


more bla


Condescending toward my assertion doesn't make it wrong.


Meanwhile do the balloon test for yourself.


You've made a claim that you're unwilling, or unable, to support. If
you will not answer the question, it suggests that you actually cannot
support your argument.


Do the bloody test and shut up.


See above.

You may call me a troll, if you like. It still doesn't mean you know
what you're writing about.


That's what you are.

"Genius without education is like silver in the mine."


Agree. Sharpen those drill bits and load the explosives. Do the ballon
test. BFN.


What's the problem? Are you incapable of answering my original
question? All else in this thread stems from your assertion that steam
is air. Answer my question and prove me wrong.

But answer it directly. This isn't Athens and you're not Socrates.

--
Derek

"Curiosity is one of the permanent and certain characteristics of a
vigorous mind." -- Samuel Johnson
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Old 15-08-2008, 01:32 AM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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On Aug 14, 4:06*pm, Derek wrote:

Still can't explain away the balloon full of air huh? Not surprised.


Still can't explain how you get a chemical reaction result from a
physical reaction, huh?


No. Neither can you.


Doing what? Your work for you?

No lazy ass. I've done it. Get those eyes checked.


Bla bla bla do the test and put the trollisms aside until you do.


Answer my original question and prove me wrong, and I'll do the test
following your specifications.


When? 2012?

more bla


Condescending toward my assertion doesn't make it wrong.


Instead of wasting your life away typing, go to Michaels for a
balloon.

You may call me a troll, if you like. It still doesn't mean you know
what you're writing about.


That's what you are.


Proof positive.

What's the problem? Are you incapable of answering my original
question? All else in this thread stems from your assertion that steam
is air. Answer my question and prove me wrong.


I posted the (only) original question.

But answer it directly. This isn't Athens and you're not Socrates.


Do your test and you'll answer it for yourself. And stop wasting time
here.



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