good stuff in tea
 

Many notes have been written about the caffeine levels in different
brews but I would like to ask if the good stuff in tea remains in
subsequent brews? I was just thinking that I had brewed a very nice
little cup of Gyokuro last night and then to sleep. This am saw the
little gaiwan with the pretty green leaves and and rebrewed it. It was
mighty fine in taste. I was wondering if all the good poly..
catche..etc things are still there in the brew?
Jenn

good stuff in tea
 

On Apr 7, 3:12*pm, Jenn > wrote:
> Many notes have been written about the caffeine levels in different
> brews but I would like to ask if the good stuff in tea remains in
> subsequent brews? I was just thinking that I had brewed a very nice
> little cup of Gyokuro last night and then to sleep. This am saw the
> little gaiwan with the pretty green leaves and and rebrewed it. It was
> mighty fine in taste. I was wondering if all the good poly..
> catche..etc things are still there in the brew?
> Jenn

There is a tradition in Japan to never drink tea from leaves left over
from the day before. When you ask people why, they say that in the
Edo period (roughly 1600 to 1868), the last "meal" of a condemned
criminal was a cup of tea made from leaves that were left from the day
before! They admit that at night they'll make tea from leaves used
early in the morning, but not stuff that has been waiting
*overnight*. I've met *many* people with this aversion.

good stuff in tea
 

On Apr 7, 12:12*pm, Jenn > wrote:
> Many notes have been written about the caffeine levels in different
> brews but I would like to ask if the good stuff in tea remains in
> subsequent brews? I was just thinking that I had brewed a very nice
> little cup of Gyokuro last night and then to sleep. This am saw the
> little gaiwan with the pretty green leaves and and rebrewed it. It was
> mighty fine in taste. I was wondering if all the good poly..
> catche..etc things are still there in the brew?
> Jenn

Yes. The good stuff is there plus more mold from airborne mold and
fermentation.
Shen

good stuff in tea
 

On Apr 8, 3:12*am, Jenn > wrote:
> Many notes have been written about the caffeine levels in different
> brews but I would like to ask if the good stuff in tea remains in
> subsequent brews? I was just thinking that I had brewed a very nice
> little cup of Gyokuro last night and then to sleep. This am saw the
> little gaiwan with the pretty green leaves and and rebrewed it. It was
> mighty fine in taste. I was wondering if all the good poly..
> catche..etc things are still there in the brew?
> Jenn

According 2 a professor Herve Huang, an environmental cancer
researcher, a tea that is brewed 3 times would have about 90% of its
beneficial contents leeched out. If you brew it only once, we might
assume that only 30% is leeched out, with 70% more in the leaves.

However, he also cautioned that once the leaves are brewed & left
aside, bacteria will fester on the leaves, & some of these might not
be beneficial 2 us.

After you brewed the tea, polyphenols, essential oils, vitamins &
proteins will continue 2 leech from the leaves, if you do not drain
the gaiwan dry, these would leech in2 the water left over in the
gaiwan & aid in oxidizing the leaves while turning the liquor in2 a
bacteria pool. When you brew the tea again, you are drinking from this
full flavored but not so healthy cup of tea. It might taste heavenly
because of all the stuff in it, but it might not be beneficial.

I know of people who leave a gaiwan of brewed leaves in the
refrigerator overnight, I doubt this does any good 2 the tea leaves or
the health, anyway.

Best 2 drink the tea as fresh as it is brewed. You dont want 2 find
out years later that instead of keeping you healthy, tea is killing
you slowly.

Kevo

Pu Ti From Teaspring
 

> I've been meditating for 45 years. That discussion is too lengthy for
> this post. I generally know the history of the teas I buy and cherish
> because I do not have money to throw away. I have spent nearly 45 years
> trying to simplify my life. I was sharing what gong-fu means to me. Of
> course, by now, I know how to do gong-fu. You are most likely looking too
> carefully into words. Let it go. I have. Shen "Slow" is the way my spirit
> moves with gong-fu.


Shen, I appreciate your poetic relationship with the tea you drink. My interest was more mundane. I was simply wondering about the style; that is, the vehicle you use for your meditations, so to speak. There is a common feeling out there that if you use a little pot, fill it with leaf, use real hot water, and steep quickly, you've done Gung Fu. For all I know, that's quite right.
Michael

Pu Ti From Teaspring
 

On Apr 8, 1:59*pm, Michael Plant > wrote:
> > I've been meditating for 45 years. *That discussion is too lengthy for
> > this post. I generally know the history of the teas I buy and cherish
> > because I do not have money to throw away. *I have spent nearly 45 years
> > trying to simplify my life. I was sharing what gong-fu means to me. *Of
> > course, by now, I know how to do gong-fu. You are most likely looking too
> > carefully into words. Let it go. *I have. Shen "Slow" is the way my spirit
> > moves with gong-fu.
>
> Shen, I appreciate your poetic relationship with the tea you drink. My interest was more mundane. I was simply wondering about the style; that is, the vehicle you use for your meditations, so to speak. There is a common feeling out there that if you use a little pot, fill it with leaf, use real hot water, and steep quickly, you've done Gung Fu. For all I know, that's quite right.
> Michael

Michael,
I use a pretty standard gong fu method: I use my rosewood tools to
clear out the spout of the pot and then take my leaves from the
canister using tongs and put them into the leaf display dish and pass
that to my friends or if I'm alone I peruse them myself. I wash out my
cups and rinse the tray, using the water bowl and the wood tongs and
wash out the pot, the aroma cups etc. I then put the leaves into the
pot and wash them. Dump through the tray and steep the leaves. I wait
the necessary amount of time and then pour into the aroma cups which I
sniff and the turn that cup into my small drinking cup (not a gaiwan).
This does take time. It is contemplative for me and meditative as
well. I usually do this in silence.
Roy Fong taught me to do it this way and it's the way I like to do
it.
Truthfully, it is a poetic experience for me. I really don't know if
this is conventional. I've seen gong fu done this way and other ways.
I like it this way.
Shen

Pu Ti From Teaspring
 

On Apr 8, 3:13*pm, Shen > wrote:
> On Apr 8, 1:59*pm, Michael Plant > wrote:
>
> > > I've been meditating for 45 years. *That discussion is too lengthy for
> > > this post. I generally know the history of the teas I buy and cherish
> > > because I do not have money to throw away. *I have spent nearly 45 years
> > > trying to simplify my life. I was sharing what gong-fu means to me. *Of
> > > course, by now, I know how to do gong-fu. You are most likely looking too
> > > carefully into words. Let it go. *I have. Shen "Slow" is the way my spirit
> > > moves with gong-fu.
>
> > Shen, I appreciate your poetic relationship with the tea you drink. My interest was more mundane. I was simply wondering about the style; that is, the vehicle you use for your meditations, so to speak. There is a common feeling out there that if you use a little pot, fill it with leaf, use real hot water, and steep quickly, you've done Gung Fu. For all I know, that's quite right.
> > Michael
>
> Michael,
> I use a pretty standard gong fu method: I use my rosewood tools to
> clear out the spout of the pot and then take my leaves from the
> canister using tongs and put them into the leaf display dish and pass
> that to my friends or if I'm alone I peruse them myself. I wash out my
> cups and rinse the tray, using the water bowl and the wood tongs and
> wash out the pot, the aroma cups etc. I then put the leaves into the
> pot and wash them. Dump through the tray and steep the leaves. I wait
> the necessary amount of time and then pour into the aroma cups which I
> sniff and the turn that cup into my small drinking cup (not a gaiwan).
> This does take time. It is contemplative for me and meditative as
> well. I usually do this in silence.
> Roy Fong taught me to do it this way and it's the way I like to do
> it.
> Truthfully, it is a poetic experience for me. I really don't know if
> this is conventional. I've seen gong fu done this way and other ways.
> I like it this way.
> Shen

I di for get two things: I do use a fair cup, a small pitcher to which
I pour the tea from the pot and then pour the tea from the fair cup
into the smaller tea cups. And, I do ask all my guests, or just
myself, to look at the wet leaves the first go round, as they dance
and unfurl.
As I said, I don't know how "real" this all is or if I'm doing it
exactly right, but wabi-sabi..........
Shen

Pu Ti From Teaspring
 

On 2008-04-09, Shen > wrote:
>
> I di for get two things: I do use a fair cup, a small pitcher to which
> I pour the tea from the pot and then pour the tea from the fair cup
> into the smaller tea cups. And, I do ask all my guests, or just
> myself, to look at the wet leaves the first go round, as they dance
> and unfurl.
> As I said, I don't know how "real" this all is or if I'm doing it
> exactly right, but wabi-sabi..........

I think the kung fu is in the knowledge, skill, patience, and practice,
not the exact method, tools used, or the amount of leaf used. I don't
know that I have any of these things, but they're at least the things
that I would like to strive for.

My understanding (and I've only been doing this for a year or two, and I
think I can continue to learn no matter how long I keep doing it) is
that the point is not "small pot, lots of leaves", but rather to try and
develop an appreciation for the nuances of the differences between
brews, and to understand how to bring out the best in a particular tea
in a particular situation. Even if I'm brewing tea in an airport
terminal with limited or no equipment, there's still an opportunity to
learn something.

w

Pu Ti From Teaspring
 

Shen wrote:
> On Apr 8, 3:13 pm, Shen > wrote:
>> On Apr 8, 1:59 pm, Michael Plant > wrote:
>>
>>>> I've been meditating for 45 years. That discussion is too lengthy for
>>>> this post. I generally know the history of the teas I buy and cherish
>>>> because I do not have money to throw away. I have spent nearly 45 years
>>>> trying to simplify my life. I was sharing what gong-fu means to me. Of
>>>> course, by now, I know how to do gong-fu. You are most likely looking too
>>>> carefully into words. Let it go. I have. Shen "Slow" is the way my spirit
>>>> moves with gong-fu.
>>> Shen, I appreciate your poetic relationship with the tea you drink. My interest was more mundane. I was simply wondering about the style; that is, the vehicle you use for your meditations, so to speak. There is a common feeling out there that if you use a little pot, fill it with leaf, use real hot water, and steep quickly, you've done Gung Fu. For all I know, that's quite right.
>>> Michael
>> Michael,
>> I use a pretty standard gong fu method: I use my rosewood tools to
>> clear out the spout of the pot and then take my leaves from the
>> canister using tongs and put them into the leaf display dish and pass
>> that to my friends or if I'm alone I peruse them myself. I wash out my
>> cups and rinse the tray, using the water bowl and the wood tongs and
>> wash out the pot, the aroma cups etc. I then put the leaves into the
>> pot and wash them. Dump through the tray and steep the leaves. I wait
>> the necessary amount of time and then pour into the aroma cups which I
>> sniff and the turn that cup into my small drinking cup (not a gaiwan).
>> This does take time. It is contemplative for me and meditative as
>> well. I usually do this in silence.
>> Roy Fong taught me to do it this way and it's the way I like to do
>> it.
>> Truthfully, it is a poetic experience for me. I really don't know if
>> this is conventional. I've seen gong fu done this way and other ways.
>> I like it this way.
>> Shen
>
> I di for get two things: I do use a fair cup, a small pitcher to which
> I pour the tea from the pot and then pour the tea from the fair cup
> into the smaller tea cups. And, I do ask all my guests, or just
> myself, to look at the wet leaves the first go round, as they dance
> and unfurl.
> As I said, I don't know how "real" this all is or if I'm doing it
> exactly right, but wabi-sabi..........
> Shen


Shen, I appreciate reading about your method (it helps me to learn
too)...do you use a glass pot to steep in or how do you watch the leaves
unfurl? (I ask because I associate the unfurling leaves with greens in a
glass which is where I have had the most experience of that) Thank you.

Melinda

Pu Ti From Teaspring
 

On Apr 10, 4:14*pm, Melinda > wrote:
> Shen wrote:
> > On Apr 8, 3:13 pm, Shen > wrote:
> >> On Apr 8, 1:59 pm, Michael Plant > wrote:
>
> >>>> I've been meditating for 45 years. *That discussion is too lengthy for
> >>>> this post. I generally know the history of the teas I buy and cherish
> >>>> because I do not have money to throw away. *I have spent nearly 45 years
> >>>> trying to simplify my life. I was sharing what gong-fu means to me. *Of
> >>>> course, by now, I know how to do gong-fu. You are most likely looking too
> >>>> carefully into words. Let it go. *I have. Shen "Slow" is the way my spirit
> >>>> moves with gong-fu.
> >>> Shen, I appreciate your poetic relationship with the tea you drink. My interest was more mundane. I was simply wondering about the style; that is, the vehicle you use for your meditations, so to speak. There is a common feeling out there that if you use a little pot, fill it with leaf, use real hot water, and steep quickly, you've done Gung Fu. For all I know, that's quite right.
> >>> Michael
> >> Michael,
> >> I use a pretty standard gong fu method: I use my rosewood tools to
> >> clear out the spout of the pot and then take my leaves from the
> >> canister using tongs and put them into the leaf display dish and pass
> >> that to my friends or if I'm alone I peruse them myself. I wash out my
> >> cups and rinse the tray, using the water bowl and the wood tongs and
> >> wash out the pot, the aroma cups etc. I then put the leaves into the
> >> pot and wash them. Dump through the tray and steep the leaves. I wait
> >> the necessary amount of time and then pour into the aroma cups which I
> >> sniff and the turn that cup into my small drinking cup (not a gaiwan).
> >> This does take time. It is contemplative for me and meditative as
> >> well. I usually do this in silence.
> >> Roy Fong taught me to do it this way and it's the way I like to do
> >> it.
> >> Truthfully, it is a poetic experience for me. I really don't know if
> >> this is conventional. I've seen gong fu done this way and other ways.
> >> I like it this way.
> >> Shen
>
> > I di for get two things: I do use a fair cup, a small pitcher to which
> > I pour the tea from the pot and then pour the tea from the fair cup
> > into the smaller tea cups. And, I do ask all my guests, or just
> > myself, to look at the wet leaves the first go round, as they dance
> > and unfurl.
> > As I said, I don't know how "real" this all is or if I'm doing it
> > exactly right, but wabi-sabi..........
> > Shen
>
> Shen, I appreciate reading about your method (it helps me to learn
> too)...do you use a glass pot to steep in or how do you watch the leaves
> unfurl? (I ask because I associate the unfurling leaves with greens in a
> glass which is where I have had the most experience of that) Thank you.
>
> Melinda- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I have several cherished and comfortable Yixings and I use a tall
glass or gaiwan for greens.
Shen

Pu Ti From Teaspring
 

On Apr 10, 3:00*am, Will Yardley >
wrote:
> On 2008-04-09, Shen > wrote:
>
> I think the kung fu is in the knowledge, skill, patience, and practice,
> not the exact method, tools used, or the amount of leaf used. I don't
> know that I have any of these things, but they're at least the things
> that I would like to strive for.
>
> My understanding (and I've only been doing this for a year or two, and I
> think I can continue to learn no matter how long I keep doing it) is
> that the point is not "small pot, lots of leaves", but rather to try and
> develop an appreciation for the nuances of the differences between
> brews, and to understand how to bring out the best in a particular tea
> in a particular situation. Even if I'm brewing tea in an airport
> terminal with limited or no equipment, there's still an opportunity to
> learn something.
>
Hi w,

Kung fu is in the knowledge, & also about knowing what you are doing.
There are 2 broadlines of kung fu, which I define as Traditional &
Contemporary. Traditional kung fu enthusiasts claim the style stemmed
from Teochew style, it is all about leisure - the time you can spare,
economy, speed, & strength of tea. Contemporary kung fu is more about
performing art, grace, & appreciation of tea. I must also stress that
these styles are not separated, only that they focus on different
aspects of style.

Whichever style you adopt, or variate on your own, the centre piece is
the tea. The tea, its history, your understanding of it, determines
which vessel is the best 2 draw out the essence of the tea. & from
there, the rest of the set-up, the cups 2 use, the setting, some would
go as far as music & lighting - more contemporary styles. Aroma cups
are part of the contemporary style, but not all tea beg the use of it,
there are teas which do not require aroma cups. A pitcher ensures all
parties get an even strength of the tea, especially so if you are
brewing for parties above 4 persons. The traditional style on the
other hand demands time. The kettle 2 boil the water is small, just
enough for 1 pot. The pot is small, usually enough for 4 cups, the
cups small & just enough for a slurp, the leaves packed in between
50-70% of the pot. The water has 2 be boiling hot, in goes the water
out comes the tea in2 4 cups, fast & furious, unceremonious. If there
are more than 6 persons, the elder ones get 2 drink 1st - the younger
in statues get 2 drink the 2nd round, if it is all friends, those
closer 2 the table gets 2 drink the 1st round...once a round of tea is
done, drinkers kick back & relax, chat or read, letting the strong
flavors of the tea & the nuances play out in the mouth. It might not
be until an hour or so later that it is decided 2 brew another
round...

Tea ceremony in whichever style, strictly adheres 2 several points -
in inadequate translation: Harmony (Appropriateness), Tranquility
(Mindfulness), Truth (Essence), & Transcendence (Knowing), which is
not understanding, but knowing from the heart, from the soul.

kevo

Pu Ti From Teaspring
 

On Apr 11, 7:35 am, Kevo > wrote:
The water has 2 be boiling hot, in goes the water
> out comes the tea in2 4 cups, fast & furious, unceremonious. If there
> are more than 6 persons, the elder ones get 2 drink 1st - the younger
> in statues get 2 drink the 2nd round, if it is all friends, those
> closer 2 the table gets 2 drink the 1st round.


kevo
This daft use of ## in ur txt abt T is 2 much 4 me, I h8 it - so off
putting that of10
I never actually get 2 read your 1derful mails - which rather neg8s
the point of
communicating.
Perhaps I could persevere with translation if I understood the actual
point of it?

Nigel at Teacraft, seeking appropriateness and transcendence, at least

Pu Ti From Teaspring
 

Kevo > writes:

> [...]
> Kung fu is in the knowledge, & also about knowing what you are doing.
> There are 2 broadlines of kung fu, which I define as Traditional &
> Contemporary. Traditional kung fu enthusiasts claim the style stemmed
> from Teochew style, it is all about leisure - the time you can spare,
> economy, speed, & strength of tea.

I'm intrigued by your use of the word "economy". What do you mean here?

> [...]
> The traditional style on the other hand demands time. The kettle 2
> boil the water is small, just enough for 1 pot. The pot is small,
> usually enough for 4 cups, the cups small & just enough for a slurp,
> the leaves packed in between 50-70% of the pot. The water has 2 be
> boiling hot, in goes the water out comes the tea in2 4 cups, fast &
> furious, unceremonious. If there are more than 6 persons, the elder
> ones get 2 drink 1st - the younger in statues get 2 drink the 2nd
> round, if it is all friends, those closer 2 the table gets 2 drink
> the 1st round...once a round of tea is done, drinkers kick back &
> relax, chat or read, letting the strong flavors of the tea & the
> nuances play out in the mouth. It might not be until an hour or so
> later that it is decided 2 brew another round...

That brings up an issue that gets ventilated here from time to time.
If Teochew (Chaozhou) style lets the pot lie around for extended
periods between steeps, and if the pot is crammed with a heavy, wet
mass of previously steeped leaves, the temperature inside the pot will
be far below boiling from the second steep onward.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Pu Ti From Teaspring
 

Lewis Perin wrote:

>
> That brings up an issue that gets ventilated here from time to time.
> If Teochew (Chaozhou) style lets the pot lie around for extended
> periods between steeps, and if the pot is crammed with a heavy, wet
> mass of previously steeped leaves, the temperature inside the pot will
> be far below boiling from the second steep onward.
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin /
> http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

I thought that was the point of pouring the boiling water over the
outside of the pot once the steep had started. I guess it would be
exactly as if the pot has stayed very hot but it would be close wouldn't
it? The pot doesn't heat up instantly of course. but if I'm doing tea
outside I have to do this because it's in the 50's F, if that, where I
am during the day.

Melinda

Pu Ti From Teaspring
 

Melinda > writes:

> Lewis Perin wrote:
>
> > That brings up an issue that gets ventilated here from time to time.
> > If Teochew (Chaozhou) style lets the pot lie around for extended
> > periods between steeps, and if the pot is crammed with a heavy, wet
> > mass of previously steeped leaves, the temperature inside the pot will
> > be far below boiling from the second steep onward.
>
> I thought that was the point of pouring the boiling water over the
> outside of the pot once the steep had started. I guess it would be
> exactly as if the pot has stayed very hot but it would be close
> wouldn't it? The pot doesn't heat up instantly of course. but if I'm
> doing tea outside I have to do this because it's in the 50's F, if
> that, where I am during the day.

I know that's the theory of pouring hot water over the pot, but I'm
skeptical of its effectiveness. For one thing - as I believe DogMa
once noted here - the evaporation of that water on the pot's skin will
*subtract* heat. Also, probably more importantly, during a short
steep how much heat could the poured-over water really add?

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Pu Ti From Teaspring
 

On Apr 11, 6:48*pm, Nigel > wrote
> kevo
> This daft use of ## in ur txt abt T is 2 much 4 me, I h8 it - so off
> putting that of10
> I never actually get 2 read your 1derful mails - which rather neg8s
> the point of
> communicating.
> Perhaps I could persevere with translation if I understood the actual
> point of it?
>
9gel@Tcraft
Datz bcoz i recif mail on my Nokia95 most times. I try 2 keep d
abbreviatns 2 2 n &, thanx 4 showing me more! No nid 2 hurt ur eyes
reading my entries, tho i read ur illuminating 1s, dey r brilliant.


Kevo

Pu Ti From Teaspring
 

On Apr 12, 3:42*am, Lewis Perin > wrote:
> Melinda > writes:
> > Lewis Perin wrote:
>
> > > That brings up an issue that gets ventilated here from time to time.
> > > If Teochew (Chaozhou) style lets the pot lie around for extended
> > > periods between steeps, and if the pot is crammed with a heavy, wet
> > > mass of previously steeped leaves, the temperature inside the pot will
> > > be far below boiling from the second steep onward.
>
> > I thought that was the point of pouring the boiling water over the
> > outside of the pot once the steep had started. I guess it would be
> > exactly as if the pot has stayed very hot but it would be close
> > wouldn't it? The pot doesn't heat up instantly of course. but if I'm
> > doing tea outside I have to do this because it's in the 50's F, if
> > that, where I am during the day.
>
> I know that's the theory of pouring hot water over the pot, but I'm
> skeptical of its effectiveness. *For one thing - as I believe DogMa
> once noted here - the evaporation of that water on the pot's skin will
> *subtract* heat. *Also, probably more importantly, during a short
> steep how much heat could the poured-over water really add?
>
>
Hi Lew

I read what Dogma wrote some time back. The approach is scientific,
but back in rural Chao Zhou, I dont think they have Dogma theory 2
test upon...


Kevo

good stuff in tea
 

"Jenn" > wrote:

> Many notes have been written about the caffeine levels in different
> brews but I would like to ask if the good stuff in tea remains in
> subsequent brews? I was just thinking that I had brewed a very nice
> little cup of Gyokuro last night and then to sleep. This am saw the
> little gaiwan with the pretty green leaves and and rebrewed it. It was
> mighty fine in taste. I was wondering if all the good poly..
> catche..etc things are still there in the brew?

As others have noted, yes, they remain but amounts diminish with
subsequent brewings. I also would not be comfortable with brewing
leaf left over from the previous day, but I drink Sencha daily and
I always make a second infusion about 90 minutes after the first.
The first two steepings are both excellent, but a little different in
flavor. Occasionally I make a third an hour or two after that, but
this third steeping is clearly not as good as the first two.

I'm surprised that if you drink Gyokuro, you aren't normally steeping
the same leaf at least twice. If not, you're missing some good tea.


--
Randy

Pu Ti From Teaspring
 

Kevo > writes:

> On Apr 12, 3:42*am, Lewis Perin > wrote:
> > Melinda > writes:
> > > Lewis Perin wrote:
> >
> > > > That brings up an issue that gets ventilated here from time to time.
> > > > If Teochew (Chaozhou) style lets the pot lie around for extended
> > > > periods between steeps, and if the pot is crammed with a heavy, wet
> > > > mass of previously steeped leaves, the temperature inside the pot will
> > > > be far below boiling from the second steep onward.
> >
> > > I thought that was the point of pouring the boiling water over the
> > > outside of the pot once the steep had started. I guess it would be
> > > exactly as if the pot has stayed very hot but it would be close
> > > wouldn't it? The pot doesn't heat up instantly of course. but if I'm
> > > doing tea outside I have to do this because it's in the 50's F, if
> > > that, where I am during the day.
> >
> > I know that's the theory of pouring hot water over the pot, but I'm
> > skeptical of its effectiveness. *For one thing - as I believe DogMa
> > once noted here - the evaporation of that water on the pot's skin will
> > *subtract* heat. *Also, probably more importantly, during a short
> > steep how much heat could the poured-over water really add?
>
> I read what Dogma wrote some time back. The approach is scientific,
> but back in rural Chao Zhou, I dont think they have Dogma theory 2
> test upon...

I certainly didn't want to suggest that a seventy-year-old guy, for
example, who's been brewing Chaozhou tea Chaozhou style in Chaozhou
all his life doesn't know what he's doing. I was saying that, if he
brews it with as relaxed a steep schedule as you describe, then
keeping the brewing temperature high must not be that important to
him.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

good stuff in tea
 

Actually, I do steep almost all my teas at least 2x. More if I can.
Gyokuro is a special very nice tea that I love to drink late cause it
lulls me into a nice calm state.
But the question was about how many good things in the tea like
theanine, and such on subsequent brewings. I know youall are
obviously concerned for my health and I thank you for that.
Just to let you guys know at the end of the day I ususally put all the
spent leaves into my potted plants outside. Gee, My plants love it. I
dont usually save from day to day but this was an example that made me
think of the things that may flush away with each brewing. I guess
fungus doesnt, thank you.
Oh BTW what teas do you like to drink at night??? Which tea helps you
to relax late at night?
Jenn

Pu Ti From Teaspring
 

On Apr 13, 11:00*pm, Lewis Perin > wrote:
> Kevo > writes:
> > On Apr 12, 3:42*am, Lewis Perin > wrote:
> > > Melinda > writes:
> > > > Lewis Perin wrote:
>
> > > > > That brings up an issue that gets ventilated here from time to time.
> > > > > If Teochew (Chaozhou) style lets the pot lie around for extended
> > > > > periods between steeps, and if the pot is crammed with a heavy, wet
> > > > > mass of previously steeped leaves, the temperature inside the pot will
> > > > > be far below boiling from the second steep onward.
>
> > > > I thought that was the point of pouring the boiling water over the
> > > > outside of the pot once the steep had started. I guess it would be
> > > > exactly as if the pot has stayed very hot but it would be close
> > > > wouldn't it? The pot doesn't heat up instantly of course. but if I'm
> > > > doing tea outside I have to do this because it's in the 50's F, if
> > > > that, where I am during the day.
>
> > > I know that's the theory of pouring hot water over the pot, but I'm
> > > skeptical of its effectiveness. *For one thing - as I believe DogMa
> > > once noted here - the evaporation of that water on the pot's skin will
> > > *subtract* heat. *Also, probably more importantly, during a short
> > > steep how much heat could the poured-over water really add?
>
> > I read what Dogma wrote some time back. The approach is scientific,
> > but back in rural Chao Zhou, I dont think they have Dogma theory 2
> > test upon...
>
> I certainly didn't want to suggest that a seventy-year-old guy, for
> example, who's been brewing Chaozhou tea Chaozhou style in Chaozhou
> all his life doesn't know what he's doing. *I was saying that, if he
> brews it with as relaxed a steep schedule as you describe, then
> keeping the brewing temperature high must not be that important to
> him.
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin /

At 70, he might appreciate a cooler cup of tea...

Kevo

good stuff in tea
 

In article >,
RJP > wrote:
>"Jenn" > wrote:
>
>> Many notes have been written about the caffeine levels in different
>> brews but I would like to ask if the good stuff in tea remains in
>> subsequent brews? I was just thinking that I had brewed a very nice
>> little cup of Gyokuro last night and then to sleep. This am saw the
>> little gaiwan with the pretty green leaves and and rebrewed it. It was
>> mighty fine in taste. I was wondering if all the good poly..
>> catche..etc things are still there in the brew?
>
>As others have noted, yes, they remain but amounts diminish with
>subsequent brewings. I also would not be comfortable with brewing
>leaf left over from the previous day, but I drink Sencha daily and
>I always make a second infusion about 90 minutes after the first.
>The first two steepings are both excellent, but a little different in
>flavor. Occasionally I make a third an hour or two after that, but
>this third steeping is clearly not as good as the first two.
>

What about all the bad stuff in tea, like the heavy metals and the
pesticides?
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

good stuff in tea
 

Hello Scott,
I wonder that too, Maybe we just have to take the good with the bad.
Like not using other possibly harmful chemicals to take out the stuff
we dont want.. .. But I like to think that in this passion of tea
drinking, that As well as getting my "tea fix" any time I want, it is
good for me too.. Well rationalizing is human behavior...
Jenn
Drinking warm matcha, wondering if I will die early because of it, or
live a few extra years because of it... Oh yeah it tastes soo
goodd...

good stuff in tea
 

there are a couple thorough discussion on this topic:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.f...cides&lnk=ol&#

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.f...t=0&scoring=d&

good stuff in tea
 

> What about all the bad stuff in tea, like the heavy metals and the
> pesticides?

To use pesticides or no pesticides is a trade-off in quality. If
you're drinking really good tea, I wouldn't worry about the
pesticides. If pesticides were used on the plants, there probably
wouldn't be much reside on the tea leaves. Why? Because tea is so
gentle. So you could taste the pesticide residue (if there was some)
in the tea.

Sure, they might use pesticides like DDT and benzene hexachloride
(BHC). But if you're drinking good tea, there shouldn't be anything in
there to worry of.

And say, you don't want your teas sprayed with pesticides, (and no
other treatment, like organic) - the tea will suffer in quality. Bugs
will eat the tea plants, and the leaves will deteriorate in quality,
having marks, etc. And this will affect the fragrance and flavor of
the finished product.

So... if you want to enjoy really good tea at a reasonable price,
then, the tea farmers might have to periodically spray the plants to
treat pests.

I wonder what the fresh tea leaves looked like back in the Song
Dynasty. Hmmmm............

good stuff in tea
 

Speaking of good stuff in tea....

Just for fun, I decided to check exactly what some of the pesticides
were used on tea in China.

And the verdict....
It's all good stuff, so drink up!!!

Here's the list:

2005 Maximum Pesticide Residue Allowable Limits for Food Products -
Tea Leaf Guidelines

1. ÁùÁùÁù Lindane 0.2
2. µÎµÎÌé DDT 0.2
3. ÂÈÇè¾Õõ¥ Cypermethrin 20
4. äåÇè¾Õõ¥ Decamethrin 10
5. ÒÒõ£¼×°·Á× Orthene 0.1
6. ɱêÔÁòÁ× Folithion n/a
7. ·úÇèÎì¾Õõ¥ Flucythrinate 20 (red,green tea)
8. ÂȾÕõ¥ Permethrin 20 (red, green tea)
9. ÇèÎì¾Õõ¥ Fenvalerate, Sumicidin n/a
10. ÈýÂÈɱòý´¼ Kelthane n/a
11. ¼×°·Á× Acephatemet, Methamidophos n/a

Notes£º
1. Numbers indicate maximum allowable limits of pesticide residues in
(mg/Kg)
2. n/a: no data available.
3. This standard came into effect on Oct. 1, 2005, effective for 1
year.
4. Don't know what the 2008 standard is, but you can be sure it has
changed since then.
5. Of tea samples tested and more than 24 types of pesticide residues
were found in various samples. No info on what the other pesticides
are.
6. Acephatemet banned from use in China January, 2004.

I will leave you guys to check on your own what each of these
pesticides are, and their potential health effects, etc.
One other point I should make though, is that this is 2005. That's
ancient history now. Now, because of stringent Japanese and EU import
restrictions, the tea business has changed in China, and some of
these pesticides are perhaps no longer used. But even tea farmers
themselves are often not clear which pesticides can be used on tea
plants. And some pesticide containers are sometimes not clearly
marked, or have prohibited ingredients mixed in - which confounds the
problem.

good stuff in tea
 

Someone once said they wished there was an easy way to test for
pesticides in tea. Apparently there is:

http://www.chem17.com/products/show/214321.asp#

good stuff in tea
 

In case you're wondering: mg/Kg is the same as ppm (parts per
million). I'm assuming those tests would be done on dry leaves. If you
made a tea infusion, the residual amounts of pesticides should be
less.

Also, since July, 2003, the EU set limits for pesticide residues in
tea at 0.01 ppm (or 0.01 mg/Kg). It was a much more stringent standard
than what was in in place in China. As a result, some teas for export
did not meet that standard. So that left tea producers who rely on tea
exports to meet the standard.

The 2005 standards above are for tea sales inside Mainland China. Now,
the government and tea prodcuers are working hard to meet the more
stringent standards, like those of the EU. So things can only get
better.

good stuff in tea
 

On Apr 20, 1:31 am, niisonge > wrote:
> Speaking of good stuff in tea....
>
> Just for fun, I decided to check exactly what some of the pesticides
> were used on tea in China.
>
> And the verdict....
> It's all good stuff, so drink up!!!
>
> Here's the list:
>
> 2005 Maximum Pesticide Residue Allowable Limits for Food Products -
> Tea Leaf Guidelines
>
> 1. ÁùÁùÁù Lindane 0.2
> 2. µÎµÎÌé DDT 0.2
> 3. ÂÈÇè¾Õõ¥ Cypermethrin 20
> 4. äåÇè¾Õõ¥ Decamethrin 10
> 5. ÒÒõ£¼×°·Á× Orthene 0.1
> 6. ɱêÔÁòÁ× Folithion n/a
> 7. ·úÇèÎì¾Õõ¥ Flucythrinate 20 (red,green tea)
> 8. ÂȾÕõ¥ Permethrin 20 (red, green tea)
> 9. ÇèÎì¾Õõ¥ Fenvalerate, Sumicidin n/a
> 10. ÈýÂÈɱòý´¼ Kelthane n/a
> 11. ¼×°·Á× Acephatemet, Methamidophos n/a
>
> Notes£º
> 1. Numbers indicate maximum allowable limits of pesticide residues in
> (mg/Kg)
> 2. n/a: no data available.
> 3. This standard came into effect on Oct. 1, 2005, effective for 1
> year.
> 4. Don't know what the 2008 standard is, but you can be sure it has
> changed since then.
> 5. Of tea samples tested and more than 24 types of pesticide residues
> were found in various samples. No info on what the other pesticides
> are.
> 6. Acephatemet banned from use in China January, 2004.
>
> I will leave you guys to check on your own what each of these
> pesticides are, and their potential health effects, etc.
> One other point I should make though, is that this is 2005. That's
> ancient history now. Now, because of stringent Japanese and EU import
> restrictions, the tea business has changed in China, and some of
> these pesticides are perhaps no longer used. But even tea farmers
> themselves are often not clear which pesticides can be used on tea
> plants. And some pesticide containers are sometimes not clearly
> marked, or have prohibited ingredients mixed in - which confounds the
> problem.

Standards in China are questionable compared to requirements here in
the US.
Shen

good stuff in tea
 

> Standards in China are questionable compared to requirements here in
> the US.

It seems it's not about Chinese producers being negligent. It seems,
rather it's a difference in regulations - both inside China, and
internationally. In China, you got federal regulations, provincial
regulations, and even industry regulations. That all makes everything
so complicated and confusing. Then there are international standards
that must be adhered to. So that makes everything different.
Apparently the EU brought on these regulations suddenly, and caught
Chinese producers off-guard. Now, if they want to export, they have to
forget about any Chinese standards, and implement stricter EU
standards.

And it seems that previous standards were internationally recognized
ones. If you look at the Codex Alimentarius, you can see various
standards for pesticide residues:

http://www.fao.org/docrep/meeting/00...e/f2595e11.htm

And here are the MRLs for tea as set in the Codex Alimentarius:
http://www.codexalimentarius.net/mrl...2Fpest_q-e.htm

good stuff in tea
 

On 2008-04-22, niisonge > wrote:

>> Standards in China are questionable compared to requirements here in
>> the US.

> It seems it's not about Chinese producers being negligent. It seems,
> rather it's a difference in regulations - both inside China, and
> internationally. In China, you got federal regulations, provincial
> regulations, and even industry regulations. That all makes everything
> so complicated and confusing. Then there are international standards
> that must be adhered to. So that makes everything different.

Well I think what the person who posted that comment might have been
referring to (at least in part) is the corruption (and ease of forging
documents or lying about a tea's origin) prevalent in China. You're
probably in a better place than I am to tell how true that is, but my
understanding is that it's pretty easy to either forge documents or
bribe officials (or simply mislead them) with the organic regulations in
a lot of parts of China.

As in the US, standards like USDA and the EU standards are a mixed bag.
They are theoretically pretty stringent, which helps a little bit with
ensuring that the standards mean something and that consumers know what
they're getting into, but they favor large producers and make it much
more difficult for small operations to compete. The fact that they
typically require a transitional period where no pesticides are used
helps ensure that there aren't residual pesticides in the ground.

If you're buying locally, it makes sense to know your farmers, and trust
that they're telling you the truth about their farming methods...
however, for those of us in the US buying tea produced in other
countries, that's difficult because the tea passes through a lot of
hands, and any of those people can easily lie or pass on a lie. Even
when buying directly from the producer, and even if you've visited the
place where the tea is grown, it's never really possible to know for
sure unless you're watching the tea every minute of every day.

Unfortunately (and possibly for some of the reasons mentioned), most of
the certified organic tea I've had has not been very tasty. I try to
just go by a tea's taste and how it makes me feel. Also, if there are
bug bites, that's usually a good sign (and for Oriental Beauty, they're
actually necessary).

btw, there have been a couple of long threads about pesticides and
toxins in tea. The two I remember are the two starting with message-ids
om>
. com>. Worth a read for
those who didn't read them the first time around.

Ankit mentioned (in one of those threads) the possibility of doing tests
of samples if anyone wanted to send him some. However, he said they need
about 250g of leaf to do the tests, which definitely dampened my
enthusiasm... most of the teas I like enough to want to test, I don't
want to give up 250g of.

w