Tea (rec.drink.tea) Discussion relating to tea, the world's second most consumed beverage (after water), made by infusing or boiling the leaves of the tea plant (C. sinensis or close relatives) in water.

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Default An invitation and some inf re Space Cowboy

I almost didn't send this message and also thought carefully about
dropping out of RFDT, which would be a big loss for me - I enjoy the
group and am learning so much. I have decided to address the
underlying issue very directly: Space Cowboy. The second part of this
posting is a firm effort to rescue the group from him. I do not intend
to discuss it/him or respond to him; as I stated after his last and
silly attack on me, no reply is needed or merited. But, something
needs to be done and I hope I can help RFDT in this regard.

Message Part 1

I have an interesting and, hope, fun challenge for you, my colleagues
in the delightful exploration of the inexhaustible pleasure of teas. I
am a pygmy in the field and neither knowledgeable nor an industry
expert, but I do have some visibility in the business and academic
fields, where a few people are finding out about my interest in tea
and my forthcoming book. This is resulting in some intriguing new
contacts and opportunities. This message is about one of them, where I
would love your insights and opinions.

Up in New York City, just next to Fifth Avenue, where taking one's
wife shopping can cost about a thousand dollars a block, there is a
hotel with a famous name that has contacted me about putting on some
little showcase events around tea. I meet with the Banqueting Manager
next week. Here's my thinking (By the way, I don't expect to make any
money on this, though should he insist on stuffing hundred dollar
bills into my pocket, I will assuredly not resist him; I am doing this
because it's fun and it will help sell my book; which will earn me
maybe $1.20 a copy. Samuel Johnson famously said that no one but a
blockhead ever wrote except for money - hi, call me Blockhead.)

So, here is the challenge. You have an audience of newbies, You - I -
want them to leave elated and converts. What would you serve them? I
will have the chance to serve them any teas, with plenty of staff in
the black jackets and white gloves. It's a one-time opportunity so I
need to get it right. Again, what would YOU offer?

I've decided to keep it simple and offer just two blacks, two oolong,
two greens, two whites plus a couple of "theatricals."

Here's my current choices, with a few comments as to why:

Black teas:
1. A Darjeeling, obviously, and one that is fragrant and full and
contrasts with any hint of the English Breakfast most of the people
will probably associate with "tea." I'm leaning to either an Ambootia
second flush or Poobong first flush.
2. A Taiwan Lapsong because I simply love it and also because most of
my newbie friends are very struck by how different it is from any tea
they know. I converted my CPA yesterday to whole leaf tea rfom
Celestial Whatevers, when she came to my house to tut-tut about my
record-keeping through a steaming, glow in the dark Lapsang. She
phoned me today to say she stopped at Wegman's on her way home and
bought an Ingenui infuser. So, when my kids ask "Dad, what did you do
to help save the planet?" I can say, I rescued Susan from drinking
lawnmower effusions.
Both my choices are traditional and safe. I thought of a Guranse or
big Assam, instead. I want something that makes the audience forget
about Earl Greys and English Breakfasts. I've excluded Ceylon estate
teas, much as I love them, for that reason.

Oolongs:
3. Iron Goddess, again obviously; safe and good.
4. Golden Lily, mainly for its vibrant appearance and how it expands
in the infuser.
I didn't want anything too light, which led me reluctantly not to
exclude Spring Pouchong. I also wanted to avoid anything too expensive
- a major theme in my book is how inexpensive great teas really are --
so no aged oolong.
I love oolongs, which are the tea most unfamiliar to newbies -- 1% of
total US tea sales? I'm not excited by my choices. Any ideas on some
Wham!!!!! alternatives?

Greens:
5. Gyokuro: the toughest choice of all. I screw up two out of three
attempts to make it and don't know how to ensure a reliable and fresh
supply. No Matcha, for the same reasons. I thought of Houjicha, and
even Genmaicha for its novelty value. Obviously, I need a Japanese
green in the show, especially to wean people off Korean supermarket
sawdust and Indonesian cement powder.
6. Pi Lo Chun: I stayed away from Dragonwell only because I've found
that most of my newbie friends are very disappointed by it - too light
and too grassy. Plus, too many quality/grade problems, and the high
cost of Imperial Dragonwell. Pi Lo Chun seems an "easy" tea to get to
know.

Whites:
7. White Peony: again, easy to enjoy and savor. I kept away from
Silver Needles and Adam's Peak because these are in my opinion teas
that you come to once you have explored the fuller and stronger ones.
8. White Darjeeling, from Poobong. I love this stuff and it's a good
way to end the tasting - where we began, in Darjeeling.

Now, for theatricals. Yixing teapots (I get to take them home; I love
them.). Adagio Ingenui infusers to get across the point that whole
leaf tea is as convenient and easy to use as tea bags. I am clueless
about Japanese teaware but obviously the Gyokuro needs its own special
equipment. I'd welcome recommendations.

A flowery white and a pu-erh for the finale. I don't like most
flavored teas but a Numi Lavender Dream, Pearl Jasmine or the like
sure looks great as its little floret or teaspoon becomes a glass
teapot underwater forest. Then, an affordable pu-ehr - in big cake
form. Master of ceremonies (me) hands cake and knife to nice lady or
gentleman and asks her/him to cut off a slice. Nice l/g fails so out
comes the hammer and chisel. Smash!

So, that's the menu. In addition, I need a good speaker from Fair
Trade/Eco Exchange or the like to talk about the social issues of tea,
an expert with good photos to show about hoofing it up in the
mountains to get great tea, and an industry specialist to talk about
the future of great teas in the U.S. If you know of candidates, I'm
interested. Obviously, I will add to the agenda something about the
Yunnan earthquake and provide an opportunity for the audience to make
a donation; I need advice/contacts on how to do this.

So, that's the idea. If it is of interest to you, I'd love to hear
your own views. I will give full acknowledgement to contributors. If
it does turn out that I make some money out of this, I will ensure
that contributors/speakers get a share of it.

I hope that the group will totally change my agenda and generate a
more interesting list of teas.


Message Part 2

Now, one other point. Always lurking, anonymously and cowardly, with
no profile published even after many years on RFDT, is the paranoid
and very cruel Space Cowboy, whose itchy fingertips are probably ready
to launch yet more vitriol in response to this message. SC is in fact
P--- A---, a Colorado Rockies fan, lover of soccer, superbly
knowledgeable about tea, who has made over the years a few visits to
such sites as alt.sex.movies. P---, what were you thinking of -- snuff
films and ******* powder room kiss scenes and half-open blouse
cleavage!!!!???? His violence of language appears to have begun around
2004, according to the two professional mental health counselors I
asked - legally - to look at his diatribes. I'm the founder of a
little agency that helps victims of domestic violence, so I know the
scary pattern of escalating threats leading to potential real damage;
my advisers think that Space Cowboy is more a danger to himself than
to others but one of them comments that once the threats from a
sociopath start - his verbal symptoms appear to be what is termed
secondary sociopathy - then worry. I have a personal concern here, in
that my web site got hijacked a year ago by a P-- type expert and I
had to put up with hundreds of Space Cowboy equivalent logomania
assaults. I have, on the advice of my website genius, taken my site
down for a week or so, to Cowboy proof it. So, Paul, don't even think
about it. Oh, and be careful on the threats. The last one, about
contacting my publisher to drive me out of "here", crosses the line
between bluster and danger. If I'd sent you my publisher's e-mail
address as you demanded and you'd actually followed through, you would
have committed a Federal crime. To quote approximately from memory one
of my neighbors, who works in a relevant government agency (when you
live 30 miles outside DC, as I do, you have a lot of helpful pals who
work for Fed alphabet soup names to talk to) and to whom I've shown a
few of your rants: "Another Master of the Universe, who thinks he is
the law. We see a hundred ot them, a week. They don't know what they
are doing till an agent turns up on their doorstep." Oh, and please do
read Title 17 of the U.S. Copyright Code before you tell me what I
can't quote and cite from RFTD archives.

After discussions with a number of members of RFDT, I've decided to
make public my findings and concerns because they damage our group,
individually and as a community. There are only 600 or so members and
activity is "medium." It should and could be 1,600 and "heavy." How
many newbies are scared off by what they see? How many really good
contributors withdraw from RFDT? The first Space Cowboy slash and burn
attack that I came across was his vicious and truly weird assault on
the publishers of the Art of Tea magazine, in April as I recall. I
note that they haven't come back. Please do, Guys, it's for me a great
publication, typos and all.

Anyway, back to the NYC event. I would love to hear your
recommendations, will make sure I do not misuse any information/ideas
you give me, and hope that at least a few of you will be my guest at
it. It's not guaranteed to happen, of course, but the probability is
in the 90% range. Should be kinda fun. And it will be fun just to see
if there is any consensus on what to serve newbies.

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Hi Peter,

Please tell us just a little about the population
that will be attending your NYC event so we might
come up with more cogent suggestions. BTW, your
choices for the most part are easy to like, and
sufficiently varied and interesting enough to
hold the day, it seems to me. I have other ideas
if your audience is beyond the introduction to tea
stage.

Good luck. Sounds like a lot of fun!

Michael



> Up in New York City, just next to Fifth Avenue, where taking one's wife
> shopping can cost about a thousand dollars a block, there is a hotel with
> a famous name that has contacted me about putting on some little showcase
> events around tea. I meet with the Banqueting Manager next week. Here's
> my thinking (By the way, I don't expect to make any money on this, though
> should he insist on stuffing hundred dollar bills into my pocket, I will
> assuredly not resist him; I am doing this because it's fun and it will
> help sell my book; which will earn me maybe $1.20 a copy. Samuel Johnson
> famously said that no one but a blockhead ever wrote except for money -
> hi, call me Blockhead.)


> So, here is the challenge. You have an audience of newbies, You - I -
> want them to leave elated and converts. What would you serve them? I
> will have the chance to serve them any teas, with plenty of staff in the
> black jackets and white gloves. It's a one-time opportunity so I need to
> get it right. Again, what would YOU offer?


> I've decided to keep it simple and offer just two blacks, two oolong, two
> greens, two whites plus a couple of "theatricals."


> Here's my current choices, with a few comments as to why:


> Black teas: 1. A Darjeeling, obviously, and one that is fragrant and full
> and contrasts with any hint of the English Breakfast most of the people
> will probably associate with "tea." I'm leaning to either an Ambootia
> second flush or Poobong first flush. 2. A Taiwan Lapsong because I
> simply love it and also because most of my newbie friends are very struck
> by how different it is from any tea they know. I converted my CPA
> yesterday to whole leaf tea rfom Celestial Whatevers, when she came to my
> house to tut-tut about my record-keeping through a steaming, glow in the
> dark Lapsang. She phoned me today to say she stopped at Wegman's on her
> way home and bought an Ingenui infuser. So, when my kids ask "Dad, what
> did you do to help save the planet?" I can say, I rescued Susan from
> drinking lawnmower effusions. Both my choices are traditional and safe.
> I thought of a Guranse or big Assam, instead. I want something that makes
> the audience forget about Earl Greys and English Breakfasts. I've
> excluded Ceylon estate teas, much as I love them, for that reason.


> Oolongs: 3. Iron Goddess, again obviously; safe and good. 4. Golden
> Lily, mainly for its vibrant appearance and how it expands in the infuser.
> I didn't want anything too light, which led me reluctantly not to exclude
> Spring Pouchong. I also wanted to avoid anything too expensive - a major
> theme in my book is how inexpensive great teas really are -- so no aged
> oolong. I love oolongs, which are the tea most unfamiliar to newbies --
> 1% of total US tea sales? I'm not excited by my choices. Any ideas on
> some Wham!!!!! alternatives?


> Greens: 5. Gyokuro: the toughest choice of all. I screw up two out of
> three attempts to make it and don't know how to ensure a reliable and
> fresh supply. No Matcha, for the same reasons. I thought of Houjicha,
> and even Genmaicha for its novelty value. Obviously, I need a Japanese
> green in the show, especially to wean people off Korean supermarket
> sawdust and Indonesian cement powder. 6. Pi Lo Chun: I stayed away from
> Dragonwell only because I've found that most of my newbie friends are very
> disappointed by it - too light and too grassy. Plus, too many
> quality/grade problems, and the high cost of Imperial Dragonwell. Pi Lo
> Chun seems an "easy" tea to get to know.


> Whites: 7. White Peony: again, easy to enjoy and savor. I kept away from
> Silver Needles and Adam's Peak because these are in my opinion teas that
> you come to once you have explored the fuller and stronger ones. 8.
> White Darjeeling, from Poobong. I love this stuff and it's a good way to
> end the tasting - where we began, in Darjeeling.


> Now, for theatricals. Yixing teapots (I get to take them home; I love
> them.). Adagio Ingenui infusers to get across the point that whole leaf
> tea is as convenient and easy to use as tea bags. I am clueless about
> Japanese teaware but obviously the Gyokuro needs its own special
> equipment. I'd welcome recommendations.


> A flowery white and a pu-erh for the finale. I don't like most flavored
> teas but a Numi Lavender Dream, Pearl Jasmine or the like sure looks great
> as its little floret or teaspoon becomes a glass teapot underwater forest.
> Then, an affordable pu-ehr - in big cake form. Master of ceremonies (me)
> hands cake and knife to nice lady or gentleman and asks her/him to cut off
> a slice. Nice l/g fails so out comes the hammer and chisel. Smash!


> So, that's the menu. In addition, I need a good speaker from Fair
> Trade/Eco Exchange or the like to talk about the social issues of tea, an
> expert with good photos to show about hoofing it up in the mountains to
> get great tea, and an industry specialist to talk about the future of
> great teas in the U.S. If you know of candidates, I'm interested.
> Obviously, I will add to the agenda something about the Yunnan earthquake
> and provide an opportunity for the audience to make a donation; I need
> advice/contacts on how to do this.


> So, that's the idea. If it is of interest to you, I'd love to hear your
> own views. I will give full acknowledgement to contributors. If it does
> turn out that I make some money out of this, I will ensure that
> contributors/speakers get a share of it.


> I hope that the group will totally change my agenda and generate a more
> interesting list of teas.


snip
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Hi Michael....

I don't yet know the demographics. I assume most of the attendees will
be tourists, many foreign. They will be couples, and probably over 30
in age. I assume they will largely know very little -- there will be
green tea drinkers aplenty and of course the Earl Grey sufferers. The
as I am sure you recognize but should rename anonymous for now, is
talking about building some marketing and press buzz and maybe I
should think of two types of event, one for newbies and one for semi-
experts. I want to hit New York Magazine if I can - it's weekly,
trendy and very food/drink oriented. It occurs to me that I could also
add a little something about RFDT in whatever package the hotel puts
together.

Just out of curiosity. If you were picking just one tea that for you
is the Nirvana, Joy and Bounce Along the Clouds, what would it be? I
want to send people home with some small samples and they should
include such a special.

regards

Peter





On Jun 6, 7:49 pm, Michael Plant > wrote:
> Hi Peter,
>
> Please tell us just a little about the population
> that will be attending your NYC event so we might
> come up with more cogent suggestions. BTW, your
> choices for the most part are easy to like, and
> sufficiently varied and interesting enough to
> hold the day, it seems to me. I have other ideas
> if your audience is beyond the introduction to tea
> stage.
>
> Good luck. Sounds like a lot of fun!
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
>
> > Up in New York City, just next to Fifth Avenue, where taking one's wife
> > shopping can cost about a thousand dollars a block, there is a hotel with
> > a famous name that has contacted me about putting on some little showcase
> > events around tea. I meet with the Banqueting Manager next week. Here's
> > my thinking (By the way, I don't expect to make any money on this, though
> > should he insist on stuffing hundred dollar bills into my pocket, I will
> > assuredly not resist him; I am doing this because it's fun and it will
> > help sell my book; which will earn me maybe $1.20 a copy. Samuel Johnson
> > famously said that no one but a blockhead ever wrote except for money -
> > hi, call me Blockhead.)
> > So, here is the challenge. You have an audience of newbies, You - I -
> > want them to leave elated and converts. What would you serve them? I
> > will have the chance to serve them any teas, with plenty of staff in the
> > black jackets and white gloves. It's a one-time opportunity so I need to
> > get it right. Again, what would YOU offer?
> > I've decided to keep it simple and offer just two blacks, two oolong, two
> > greens, two whites plus a couple of "theatricals."
> > Here's my current choices, with a few comments as to why:
> > Black teas: 1. A Darjeeling, obviously, and one that is fragrant and full
> > and contrasts with any hint of the English Breakfast most of the people
> > will probably associate with "tea." I'm leaning to either an Ambootia
> > second flush or Poobong first flush. 2. A Taiwan Lapsong because I
> > simply love it and also because most of my newbie friends are very struck
> > by how different it is from any tea they know. I converted my CPA
> > yesterday to whole leaf tea rfom Celestial Whatevers, when she came to my
> > house to tut-tut about my record-keeping through a steaming, glow in the
> > dark Lapsang. She phoned me today to say she stopped at Wegman's on her
> > way home and bought an Ingenui infuser. So, when my kids ask "Dad, what
> > did you do to help save the planet?" I can say, I rescued Susan from
> > drinking lawnmower effusions. Both my choices are traditional and safe.
> > I thought of a Guranse or big Assam, instead. I want something that makes
> > the audience forget about Earl Greys and English Breakfasts. I've
> > excluded Ceylon estate teas, much as I love them, for that reason.
> > Oolongs: 3. Iron Goddess, again obviously; safe and good. 4. Golden
> > Lily, mainly for its vibrant appearance and how it expands in the infuser.
> > I didn't want anything too light, which led me reluctantly not to exclude
> > Spring Pouchong. I also wanted to avoid anything too expensive - a major
> > theme in my book is how inexpensive great teas really are -- so no aged
> > oolong. I love oolongs, which are the tea most unfamiliar to newbies --
> > 1% of total US tea sales? I'm not excited by my choices. Any ideas on
> > some Wham!!!!! alternatives?
> > Greens: 5. Gyokuro: the toughest choice of all. I screw up two out of
> > three attempts to make it and don't know how to ensure a reliable and
> > fresh supply. No Matcha, for the same reasons. I thought of Houjicha,
> > and even Genmaicha for its novelty value. Obviously, I need a Japanese
> > green in the show, especially to wean people off Korean supermarket
> > sawdust and Indonesian cement powder. 6. Pi Lo Chun: I stayed away from
> > Dragonwell only because I've found that most of my newbie friends are very
> > disappointed by it - too light and too grassy. Plus, too many
> > quality/grade problems, and the high cost of Imperial Dragonwell. Pi Lo
> > Chun seems an "easy" tea to get to know.
> > Whites: 7. White Peony: again, easy to enjoy and savor. I kept away from
> > Silver Needles and Adam's Peak because these are in my opinion teas that
> > you come to once you have explored the fuller and stronger ones. 8.
> > White Darjeeling, from Poobong. I love this stuff and it's a good way to
> > end the tasting - where we began, in Darjeeling.
> > Now, for theatricals. Yixing teapots (I get to take them home; I love
> > them.). Adagio Ingenui infusers to get across the point that whole leaf
> > tea is as convenient and easy to use as tea bags. I am clueless about
> > Japanese teaware but obviously the Gyokuro needs its own special
> > equipment. I'd welcome recommendations.
> > A flowery white and a pu-erh for the finale. I don't like most flavored
> > teas but a Numi Lavender Dream, Pearl Jasmine or the like sure looks great
> > as its little floret or teaspoon becomes a glass teapot underwater forest.
> > Then, an affordable pu-ehr - in big cake form. Master of ceremonies (me)
> > hands cake and knife to nice lady or gentleman and asks her/him to cut off
> > a slice. Nice l/g fails so out comes the hammer and chisel. Smash!
> > So, that's the menu. In addition, I need a good speaker from Fair
> > Trade/Eco Exchange or the like to talk about the social issues of tea, an
> > expert with good photos to show about hoofing it up in the mountains to
> > get great tea, and an industry specialist to talk about the future of
> > great teas in the U.S. If you know of candidates, I'm interested.
> > Obviously, I will add to the agenda something about the Yunnan earthquake
> > and provide an opportunity for the audience to make a donation; I need
> > advice/contacts on how to do this.
> > So, that's the idea. If it is of interest to you, I'd love to hear your
> > own views. I will give full acknowledgement to contributors. If it does
> > turn out that I make some money out of this, I will ensure that
> > contributors/speakers get a share of it.
> > I hope that the group will totally change my agenda and generate a more
> > interesting list of teas.

>
> snip- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -



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Default An invitation and some inf re Space Cowboy

On Jun 6, 6:54 pm, pgwk > wrote:
> I almost didn't send this message and also thought carefully about
> dropping out of RFDT, which would be a big loss for me - I enjoy the
> group and am learning so much. I have decided to address the
> underlying issue very directly: Space Cowboy. The second part of this
> posting is a firm effort to rescue the group from him. I do not intend
> to discuss it/him or respond to him; as I stated after his last and
> silly attack on me, no reply is needed or merited. But, something
> needs to be done and I hope I can help RFDT in this regard.
>


I haven't been following this group very closely lately, so I'm not
really sure what this is all about. But I have been hanging out here
for a while, and I don't recall Space Cowboy ever behaving
inappropriately here. On the contrary, he's always been very helpful
and seems to be very knowledgeable.

I don't think this is the appropriate place to be airing personal
vendettas.



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Default An invitation and some inf re Space Cowboy

Agreed. Fair comment. Subject closed. I think, though, you may find
some different perceptions in the group. I'm glad you haven't read
some of the postings.

On Jun 6, 8:07 pm, Fran > wrote:
> On Jun 6, 6:54 pm, pgwk > wrote:
>
> > I almost didn't send this message and also thought carefully about
> > dropping out of RFDT, which would be a big loss for me - I enjoy the
> > group and am learning so much. I have decided to address the
> > underlying issue very directly: Space Cowboy. The second part of this
> > posting is a firm effort to rescue the group from him. I do not intend
> > to discuss it/him or respond to him; as I stated after his last and
> > silly attack on me, no reply is needed or merited. But, something
> > needs to be done and I hope I can help RFDT in this regard.

>
> I haven't been following this group very closely lately, so I'm not
> really sure what this is all about. But I have been hanging out here
> for a while, and I don't recall Space Cowboy ever behaving
> inappropriately here. On the contrary, he's always been very helpful
> and seems to be very knowledgeable.
>
> I don't think this is the appropriate place to be airing personal
> vendettas.





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Default An invitation and some inf re Space Cowboy

On Jun 6, 7:07 pm, pgwk > wrote:
> Hi Michael....
>
> I don't yet know the demographics. I assume most of the attendees will
> be tourists, many foreign. They will be couples, and probably over 30
> in age. I assume they will largely know very little -- there will be
> green tea drinkers aplenty and of course the Earl Grey sufferers. The
> as I am sure you recognize but should rename anonymous for now, is
> talking about building some marketing and press buzz and maybe I
> should think of two types of event, one for newbies and one for semi-
> experts. I want to hit New York Magazine if I can - it's weekly,
> trendy and very food/drink oriented. It occurs to me that I could also
> add a little something about RFDT in whatever package the hotel puts
> together.
>
> Just out of curiosity. If you were picking just one tea that for you
> is the Nirvana, Joy and Bounce Along the Clouds, what would it be? I
> want to send people home with some small samples and they should
> include such a special.
>
> regards
>
> Peter
>
> On Jun 6, 7:49 pm, Michael Plant > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi Peter,

>
> > Please tell us just a little about the population
> > that will be attending your NYC event so we might
> > come up with more cogent suggestions. BTW, your
> > choices for the most part are easy to like, and
> > sufficiently varied and interesting enough to
> > hold the day, it seems to me. I have other ideas
> > if your audience is beyond the introduction to tea
> > stage.

>
> > Good luck. Sounds like a lot of fun!

>
> > Michael

>
> > > Up in New York City, just next to Fifth Avenue, where taking one's wife
> > > shopping can cost about a thousand dollars a block, there is a hotel with
> > > a famous name that has contacted me about putting on some little showcase
> > > events around tea. I meet with the Banqueting Manager next week. Here's
> > > my thinking (By the way, I don't expect to make any money on this, though
> > > should he insist on stuffing hundred dollar bills into my pocket, I will
> > > assuredly not resist him; I am doing this because it's fun and it will
> > > help sell my book; which will earn me maybe $1.20 a copy. Samuel Johnson
> > > famously said that no one but a blockhead ever wrote except for money -
> > > hi, call me Blockhead.)
> > > So, here is the challenge. You have an audience of newbies, You - I -
> > > want them to leave elated and converts. What would you serve them? I
> > > will have the chance to serve them any teas, with plenty of staff in the
> > > black jackets and white gloves. It's a one-time opportunity so I need to
> > > get it right. Again, what would YOU offer?
> > > I've decided to keep it simple and offer just two blacks, two oolong, two
> > > greens, two whites plus a couple of "theatricals."
> > > Here's my current choices, with a few comments as to why:
> > > Black teas: 1. A Darjeeling, obviously, and one that is fragrant and full
> > > and contrasts with any hint of the English Breakfast most of the people
> > > will probably associate with "tea." I'm leaning to either an Ambootia
> > > second flush or Poobong first flush. 2. A Taiwan Lapsong because I
> > > simply love it and also because most of my newbie friends are very struck
> > > by how different it is from any tea they know. I converted my CPA
> > > yesterday to whole leaf tea rfom Celestial Whatevers, when she came to my
> > > house to tut-tut about my record-keeping through a steaming, glow in the
> > > dark Lapsang. She phoned me today to say she stopped at Wegman's on her
> > > way home and bought an Ingenui infuser. So, when my kids ask "Dad, what
> > > did you do to help save the planet?" I can say, I rescued Susan from
> > > drinking lawnmower effusions. Both my choices are traditional and safe.
> > > I thought of a Guranse or big Assam, instead. I want something that makes
> > > the audience forget about Earl Greys and English Breakfasts. I've
> > > excluded Ceylon estate teas, much as I love them, for that reason.
> > > Oolongs: 3. Iron Goddess, again obviously; safe and good. 4. Golden
> > > Lily, mainly for its vibrant appearance and how it expands in the infuser.
> > > I didn't want anything too light, which led me reluctantly not to exclude
> > > Spring Pouchong. I also wanted to avoid anything too expensive - a major
> > > theme in my book is how inexpensive great teas really are -- so no aged
> > > oolong. I love oolongs, which are the tea most unfamiliar to newbies --
> > > 1% of total US tea sales? I'm not excited by my choices. Any ideas on
> > > some Wham!!!!! alternatives?
> > > Greens: 5. Gyokuro: the toughest choice of all. I screw up two out of
> > > three attempts to make it and don't know how to ensure a reliable and
> > > fresh supply. No Matcha, for the same reasons. I thought of Houjicha,
> > > and even Genmaicha for its novelty value. Obviously, I need a Japanese
> > > green in the show, especially to wean people off Korean supermarket
> > > sawdust and Indonesian cement powder. 6. Pi Lo Chun: I stayed away from
> > > Dragonwell only because I've found that most of my newbie friends are very
> > > disappointed by it - too light and too grassy. Plus, too many
> > > quality/grade problems, and the high cost of Imperial Dragonwell. Pi Lo
> > > Chun seems an "easy" tea to get to know.
> > > Whites: 7. White Peony: again, easy to enjoy and savor. I kept away from
> > > Silver Needles and Adam's Peak because these are in my opinion teas that
> > > you come to once you have explored the fuller and stronger ones. 8.
> > > White Darjeeling, from Poobong. I love this stuff and it's a good way to
> > > end the tasting - where we began, in Darjeeling.
> > > Now, for theatricals. Yixing teapots (I get to take them home; I love
> > > them.). Adagio Ingenui infusers to get across the point that whole leaf
> > > tea is as convenient and easy to use as tea bags. I am clueless about
> > > Japanese teaware but obviously the Gyokuro needs its own special
> > > equipment. I'd welcome recommendations.
> > > A flowery white and a pu-erh for the finale. I don't like most flavored
> > > teas but a Numi Lavender Dream, Pearl Jasmine or the like sure looks great
> > > as its little floret or teaspoon becomes a glass teapot underwater forest.
> > > Then, an affordable pu-ehr - in big cake form. Master of ceremonies (me)
> > > hands cake and knife to nice lady or gentleman and asks her/him to cut off
> > > a slice. Nice l/g fails so out comes the hammer and chisel. Smash!
> > > So, that's the menu. In addition, I need a good speaker from Fair
> > > Trade/Eco Exchange or the like to talk about the social issues of tea, an
> > > expert with good photos to show about hoofing it up in the mountains to
> > > get great tea, and an industry specialist to talk about the future of
> > > great teas in the U.S. If you know of candidates, I'm interested.
> > > Obviously, I will add to the agenda something about the Yunnan earthquake
> > > and provide an opportunity for the audience to make a donation; I need
> > > advice/contacts on how to do this.
> > > So, that's the idea. If it is of interest to you, I'd love to hear your
> > > own views. I will give full acknowledgement to contributors. If it does
> > > turn out that I make some money out of this, I will ensure that
> > > contributors/speakers get a share of it.
> > > I hope that the group will totally change my agenda and generate a more
> > > interesting list of teas.

>
> > snip- Hide quoted text -

>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -


One and one tea only- Ceylon, Koslanda Estate. But how can it be
wonderful if there are no choices? Toci

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Default An invitation and some inf re Space Cowboy

With regard to your event:

1. I highly suggest NOT going gyokuro. It's too expensive, it's way
too easy to screw up, and it is more of an acquired taste when brewed
properly. Sencha might be a better option-- it's easier to brew and
more likely to please the inexperienced palatte.

2. I might consider a Wuyi rock oolong (such as Da Hong Pao, Shui
Xian, Rou Gui, etc.) as one of your oolong choices. They are dark and
heavy, which could be a nice contrast to one of the lighter oolongs
you have already selected.

Also, I'm on your side regarding space cowboy. Though he clearly
knows a lot, he can be irritating and unnecessarily harsh to other
posters. You're not the only one who is upset about his behavior.
Still, there's nothing we can do about it as far as I can tell.

-Brent

On Jun 6, 5:18 pm, pgwk > wrote:
> Agreed. Fair comment. Subject closed. I think, though, you may find
> some different perceptions in the group. I'm glad you haven't read
> some of the postings.
>
> On Jun 6, 8:07 pm, Fran > wrote:
>
> > On Jun 6, 6:54 pm, pgwk > wrote:

>
> > > I almost didn't send this message and also thought carefully about
> > > dropping out of RFDT, which would be a big loss for me - I enjoy the
> > > group and am learning so much. I have decided to address the
> > > underlying issue very directly: Space Cowboy. The second part of this
> > > posting is a firm effort to rescue the group from him. I do not intend
> > > to discuss it/him or respond to him; as I stated after his last and
> > > silly attack on me, no reply is needed or merited. But, something
> > > needs to be done and I hope I can help RFDT in this regard.

>
> > I haven't been following this group very closely lately, so I'm not
> > really sure what this is all about. But I have been hanging out here
> > for a while, and I don't recall Space Cowboy ever behaving
> > inappropriately here. On the contrary, he's always been very helpful
> > and seems to be very knowledgeable.

>
> > I don't think this is the appropriate place to be airing personal
> > vendettas.


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Default An invitation and some inf re Space Cowboy

On Jun 6, 9:04 pm, Brent > wrote:
> With regard to your event:
>
> 1. I highly suggest NOT going gyokuro. It's too expensive, it's way
> too easy to screw up, and it is more of an acquired taste when brewed
> properly. Sencha might be a better option-- it's easier to brew and
> more likely to please the inexperienced palatte.
>
> 2. I might consider a Wuyi rock oolong (such as Da Hong Pao, Shui
> Xian, Rou Gui, etc.) as one of your oolong choices. They are dark and
> heavy, which could be a nice contrast to one of the lighter oolongs
> you have already selected.
>
> Also, I'm on your side regarding space cowboy. Though he clearly
> knows a lot, he can be irritating and unnecessarily harsh to other
> posters. You're not the only one who is upset about his behavior.
> Still, there's nothing we can do about it as far as I can tell.
>
> -Brent
>
> On Jun 6, 5:18 pm, pgwk > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Agreed. Fair comment. Subject closed. I think, though, you may find
> > some different perceptions in the group. I'm glad you haven't read
> > some of the postings.

>
> > On Jun 6, 8:07 pm, Fran > wrote:

>
> > > On Jun 6, 6:54 pm, pgwk > wrote:

>
> > > > I almost didn't send this message and also thought carefully about
> > > > dropping out of RFDT, which would be a big loss for me - I enjoy the
> > > > group and am learning so much. I have decided to address the
> > > > underlying issue very directly: Space Cowboy. The second part of this
> > > > posting is a firm effort to rescue the group from him. I do not intend
> > > > to discuss it/him or respond to him; as I stated after his last and
> > > > silly attack on me, no reply is needed or merited. But, something
> > > > needs to be done and I hope I can help RFDT in this regard.

>
> > > I haven't been following this group very closely lately, so I'm not
> > > really sure what this is all about. But I have been hanging out here
> > > for a while, and I don't recall Space Cowboy ever behaving
> > > inappropriately here. On the contrary, he's always been very helpful
> > > and seems to be very knowledgeable.

>
> > > I don't think this is the appropriate place to be airing personal
> > > vendettas.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -



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Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 198
Default An invitation and some inf re Space Cowboy

On Jun 6, 3:54 pm, pgwk > wrote:
> I almost didn't send this message and also thought carefully about
> dropping out of RFDT, which would be a big loss for me - I enjoy the
> group and am learning so much. I have decided to address the
> underlying issue very directly: Space Cowboy. The second part of this
> posting is a firm effort to rescue the group from him. I do not intend
> to discuss it/him or respond to him; as I stated after his last and
> silly attack on me, no reply is needed or merited. But, something
> needs to be done and I hope I can help RFDT in this regard.
>
> Message Part 1
>
> I have an interesting and, hope, fun challenge for you, my colleagues
> in the delightful exploration of the inexhaustible pleasure of teas. I
> am a pygmy in the field and neither knowledgeable nor an industry
> expert, but I do have some visibility in the business and academic
> fields, where a few people are finding out about my interest in tea
> and my forthcoming book. This is resulting in some intriguing new
> contacts and opportunities. This message is about one of them, where I
> would love your insights and opinions.
>
> Up in New York City, just next to Fifth Avenue, where taking one's
> wife shopping can cost about a thousand dollars a block, there is a
> hotel with a famous name that has contacted me about putting on some
> little showcase events around tea. I meet with the Banqueting Manager
> next week. Here's my thinking (By the way, I don't expect to make any
> money on this, though should he insist on stuffing hundred dollar
> bills into my pocket, I will assuredly not resist him; I am doing this
> because it's fun and it will help sell my book; which will earn me
> maybe $1.20 a copy. Samuel Johnson famously said that no one but a
> blockhead ever wrote except for money - hi, call me Blockhead.)
>
> So, here is the challenge. You have an audience of newbies, You - I -
> want them to leave elated and converts. What would you serve them? I
> will have the chance to serve them any teas, with plenty of staff in
> the black jackets and white gloves. It's a one-time opportunity so I
> need to get it right. Again, what would YOU offer?
>
> I've decided to keep it simple and offer just two blacks, two oolong,
> two greens, two whites plus a couple of "theatricals."
>
> Here's my current choices, with a few comments as to why:
>
> Black teas:
> 1. A Darjeeling, obviously, and one that is fragrant and full and
> contrasts with any hint of the English Breakfast most of the people
> will probably associate with "tea." I'm leaning to either an Ambootia
> second flush or Poobong first flush.
> 2. A Taiwan Lapsong because I simply love it and also because most of
> my newbie friends are very struck by how different it is from any tea
> they know. I converted my CPA yesterday to whole leaf tea rfom
> Celestial Whatevers, when she came to my house to tut-tut about my
> record-keeping through a steaming, glow in the dark Lapsang. She
> phoned me today to say she stopped at Wegman's on her way home and
> bought an Ingenui infuser. So, when my kids ask "Dad, what did you do
> to help save the planet?" I can say, I rescued Susan from drinking
> lawnmower effusions.
> Both my choices are traditional and safe. I thought of a Guranse or
> big Assam, instead. I want something that makes the audience forget
> about Earl Greys and English Breakfasts. I've excluded Ceylon estate
> teas, much as I love them, for that reason.
>
> Oolongs:
> 3. Iron Goddess, again obviously; safe and good.
> 4. Golden Lily, mainly for its vibrant appearance and how it expands
> in the infuser.
> I didn't want anything too light, which led me reluctantly not to
> exclude Spring Pouchong. I also wanted to avoid anything too expensive
> - a major theme in my book is how inexpensive great teas really are --
> so no aged oolong.
> I love oolongs, which are the tea most unfamiliar to newbies -- 1% of
> total US tea sales? I'm not excited by my choices. Any ideas on some
> Wham!!!!! alternatives?
>
> Greens:
> 5. Gyokuro: the toughest choice of all. I screw up two out of three
> attempts to make it and don't know how to ensure a reliable and fresh
> supply. No Matcha, for the same reasons. I thought of Houjicha, and
> even Genmaicha for its novelty value. Obviously, I need a Japanese
> green in the show, especially to wean people off Korean supermarket
> sawdust and Indonesian cement powder.
> 6. Pi Lo Chun: I stayed away from Dragonwell only because I've found
> that most of my newbie friends are very disappointed by it - too light
> and too grassy. Plus, too many quality/grade problems, and the high
> cost of Imperial Dragonwell. Pi Lo Chun seems an "easy" tea to get to
> know.
>
> Whites:
> 7. White Peony: again, easy to enjoy and savor. I kept away from
> Silver Needles and Adam's Peak because these are in my opinion teas
> that you come to once you have explored the fuller and stronger ones.
> 8. White Darjeeling, from Poobong. I love this stuff and it's a good
> way to end the tasting - where we began, in Darjeeling.
>
> Now, for theatricals. Yixing teapots (I get to take them home; I love
> them.). Adagio Ingenui infusers to get across the point that whole
> leaf tea is as convenient and easy to use as tea bags. I am clueless
> about Japanese teaware but obviously the Gyokuro needs its own special
> equipment. I'd welcome recommendations.
>
> A flowery white and a pu-erh for the finale. I don't like most
> flavored teas but a Numi Lavender Dream, Pearl Jasmine or the like
> sure looks great as its little floret or teaspoon becomes a glass
> teapot underwater forest. Then, an affordable pu-ehr - in big cake
> form. Master of ceremonies (me) hands cake and knife to nice lady or
> gentleman and asks her/him to cut off a slice. Nice l/g fails so out
> comes the hammer and chisel. Smash!
>
> So, that's the menu. In addition, I need a good speaker from Fair
> Trade/Eco Exchange or the like to talk about the social issues of tea,
> an expert with good photos to show about hoofing it up in the
> mountains to get great tea, and an industry specialist to talk about
> the future of great teas in the U.S. If you know of candidates, I'm
> interested. Obviously, I will add to the agenda something about the
> Yunnan earthquake and provide an opportunity for the audience to make
> a donation; I need advice/contacts on how to do this.
>
> So, that's the idea. If it is of interest to you, I'd love to hear
> your own views. I will give full acknowledgement to contributors. If
> it does turn out that I make some money out of this, I will ensure
> that contributors/speakers get a share of it.
>
> I hope that the group will totally change my agenda and generate a
> more interesting list of teas.
>
> Message Part 2
>
> Now, one other point. Always lurking, anonymously and cowardly, with
> no profile published even after many years on RFDT, is the paranoid
> and very cruel Space Cowboy, whose itchy fingertips are probably ready
> to launch yet more vitriol in response to this message. SC is in fact
> P--- A---, a Colorado Rockies fan, lover of soccer, superbly
> knowledgeable about tea, who has made over the years a few visits to
> such sites as alt.sex.movies. P---, what were you thinking of -- snuff
> films and ******* powder room kiss scenes and half-open blouse
> cleavage!!!!???? His violence of language appears to have begun around
> 2004, according to the two professional mental health counselors I
> asked - legally - to look at his diatribes. I'm the founder of a
> little agency that helps victims of domestic violence, so I know the
> scary pattern of escalating threats leading to potential real damage;
> my advisers think that Space Cowboy is more a danger to himself than
> to others but one of them comments that once the threats from a
> sociopath start - his verbal symptoms appear to be what is termed
> secondary sociopathy - then worry. I have a personal concern here, in
> that my web site got hijacked a year ago by a P-- type expert and I
> had to put up with hundreds of Space Cowboy equivalent logomania
> assaults. I have, on the advice of my website genius, taken my site
> down for a week or so, to Cowboy proof it. So, Paul, don't even think
> about it. Oh, and be careful on the threats. The last one, about
> contacting my publisher to drive me out of "here", crosses the line
> between bluster and danger. If I'd sent you my publisher's e-mail
> address as you demanded and you'd actually followed through, you would
> have committed a Federal crime. To quote approximately from memory one
> of my neighbors, who works in a relevant government agency (when you
> live 30 miles outside DC, as I do, you have a lot of helpful pals who
> work for Fed alphabet soup names to talk to) and to whom I've shown a
> few of your rants: "Another Master of the Universe, who thinks he is
> the law. We see a hundred ot them, a week. They don't know what they
> are doing till an agent turns up on their doorstep." Oh, and please do
> read Title 17 of the U.S. Copyright Code before you tell me what I
> can't quote and cite from RFTD archives.
>
> After discussions with a number of members of RFDT, I've decided to
> make public my findings and concerns because they damage our group,
> individually and as a community. There are only 600 or so members and
> activity is "medium." It should and could be 1,600 and "heavy." How
> many newbies are scared off by what they see? How many really good
> contributors withdraw from RFDT? The first Space Cowboy slash and burn
> attack that I came across was his vicious and truly weird assault on
> the publishers of the Art of Tea magazine, in April as I recall. I
> note that they haven't come back. Please do, Guys, it's for me a great
> publication, typos and all.
>
> Anyway, back to the NYC event. I would love to hear your
> recommendations, will make sure I do not misuse any information/ideas
> you give me, and hope that at least a few of you will be my guest at
> it. It's not guaranteed to happen, of course, but the probability is
> in the 90% range. Should be kinda fun. And it will be fun just to see
> if there is any consensus on what to serve newbies.


Dr. Keen,

For new tea drinkers, you may also want to consider these:

Green:
O Anji Baicha: it's naturally "sweet" and highly aromatic.
O Emei Shan Zhuyeqing - also "sweet", aromatic, and can be ricey.
Beautiful looking leaves.
XX Long Jing and Biluochun...I have my reservations. They can taste
green or simply characterless and flat if it's the cheap and low
quality kind.

Black / Red:
- Qimen Hong (malty and can be chocolatey)
- Lapsang Souchong (Ssssmokey!)

Oolong:
Only 2 types of oolong? Why not more? Coffee drinkers will most
likely appreciate the highly roasted kinds.
- Oriental Beauty
- Medium roast Dancong - peachy, fruity, floral aromas, good
aftertaste
- Wuyi Dahongpao / Rougui / Shuixian -- highly frragrant and can be
both masculine and feminine at the same time
- How about Darjeeling and Nepalese oolong's? I know of good sources
in the US.

Good luck with the event.

Phyll

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Default An invitation and some inf re Space Cowboy

Thanks, Brent. I was uneasy about the gyokuro but I also am uneasy
about sencha. I just don't know enough about Japanese teas, where to
get them and how to brew them.

A confession........ I don't know the rock oolongs. Can you give me
the inf to order some to try out. Thanks.

Re Space Cowboy, the only thing we can do is not accept in silence his
malice. I don't wish to start any "vendetta" or whatever. I want to be
able to express myself and hear my colleagues do the same on an
amicable and courteous basis. I opened the topic so that we stop
putting up with him and not saying anything to each other about it.
That's all. Courtesy, thoughtfulness, respect and consideration.....
Without mentioning specific names, that is what I have received in all
my public and private conversations in the RFDT space and I want it to
stay that way.

I am sure that at times I can be a jerk in cyberspace. It happens when
the fingers get ahead of the brain. If I am, I should get an
electronic handslap and will stop. In this new thread I started, there
has not been a single putdown, sneer or snide remark. I am delighted
with the responses and thank you for yours. I don't have to be
defensive about my lack of knowledge and can get the opinion and
advice of someone like yourself who is way out ahead of me on
expertise. I benefit and I hope we build an interesting conversation
that we all enjoy and gain from.

On Jun 6, 9:16 pm, pgwk > wrote:
> On Jun 6, 9:04 pm, Brent > wrote:
>
>
>
> > With regard to your event:

>
> > 1. I highly suggest NOT going gyokuro. It's too expensive, it's way
> > too easy to screw up, and it is more of an acquired taste when brewed
> > properly. Sencha might be a better option-- it's easier to brew and
> > more likely to please the inexperienced palatte.

>
> > 2. I might consider a Wuyi rock oolong (such as Da Hong Pao, Shui
> > Xian, Rou Gui, etc.) as one of your oolong choices. They are dark and
> > heavy, which could be a nice contrast to one of the lighter oolongs
> > you have already selected.

>
> > Also, I'm on your side regarding space cowboy. Though he clearly
> > knows a lot, he can be irritating and unnecessarily harsh to other
> > posters. You're not the only one who is upset about his behavior.
> > Still, there's nothing we can do about it as far as I can tell.

>
> > -Brent

>
> > On Jun 6, 5:18 pm, pgwk > wrote:

>
> > > Agreed. Fair comment. Subject closed. I think, though, you may find
> > > some different perceptions in the group. I'm glad you haven't read
> > > some of the postings.

>
> > > On Jun 6, 8:07 pm, Fran > wrote:

>
> > > > On Jun 6, 6:54 pm, pgwk > wrote:

>
> > > > > I almost didn't send this message and also thought carefully about
> > > > > dropping out of RFDT, which would be a big loss for me - I enjoy the
> > > > > group and am learning so much. I have decided to address the
> > > > > underlying issue very directly: Space Cowboy. The second part of this
> > > > > posting is a firm effort to rescue the group from him. I do not intend
> > > > > to discuss it/him or respond to him; as I stated after his last and
> > > > > silly attack on me, no reply is needed or merited. But, something
> > > > > needs to be done and I hope I can help RFDT in this regard.

>
> > > > I haven't been following this group very closely lately, so I'm not
> > > > really sure what this is all about. But I have been hanging out here
> > > > for a while, and I don't recall Space Cowboy ever behaving
> > > > inappropriately here. On the contrary, he's always been very helpful
> > > > and seems to be very knowledgeable.

>
> > > > I don't think this is the appropriate place to be airing personal
> > > > vendettas.- Hide quoted text -

>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -





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Default An invitation and some inf re Space Cowboy

Dr. Keen,

For new tea drinkers, you may also want to consider these:

Green:
O Anji Baicha: it's naturally "sweet" and highly aromatic.
O Emei Shan Zhuyeqing - also "sweet", aromatic, and can be ricey.
Beautiful looking leaves.
XX Long Jing and Biluochun...I have my reservations. They can taste
green or simply characterless and flat if it's the cheap and low
quality kind.

Black / Red:
- Qimen Hong (malty and can be chocolatey)
- Lapsang Souchong (Ssssmokey!)

Oolong:
Only 2 types of oolong? Why not more? Coffee drinkers will most
likely appreciate the highly roasted kinds.
- Oriental Beauty
- Medium roast Dancong - peachy, fruity, floral aromas, good
aftertaste
- Wuyi Dahongpao / Rougui / Shuixian -- highly frragrant and can be
both masculine and feminine at the same time
- How about Darjeeling and Nepalese oolong's? I know of good sources
in the US.

Pu'er:
Have you found any candidate yet? If not I may have a few that you
might be interested in.

Good luck with the event.

Phyll

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Default An invitation and some inf re Space Cowboy

Hi Phyll

Please keep feeding me the information. I will order the teas you
mention. Can you please send, via provate e-mail, the names of
recommended suppliers.

I thought hard and long about going beyond just two oolongs. Maybe I
should make it four.

I don't know the Anji Baicha... It sounds just what I am looking for.

I love Oriental Beauty... Is the group consensus that this may be the
best for newbies?

I need Pu'er sources. I hit the Shanghai shops when I was in China
three weeks ago and know that I did not have a clue about what to buy
but still love the el cheapos I came back with.

Thanks, Phyll. I thought this event would be the education of newbies.
It's turning out to be the education of Peter. Now, why is my wife
hiding my credit card?

On Jun 6, 9:43 pm, Phyll > wrote:
> Dr. Keen,
>
> For new tea drinkers, you may also want to consider these:
>
> Green:
> O Anji Baicha: it's naturally "sweet" and highly aromatic.
> O Emei Shan Zhuyeqing - also "sweet", aromatic, and can be ricey.
> Beautiful looking leaves.
> XX Long Jing and Biluochun...I have my reservations. They can taste
> green or simply characterless and flat if it's the cheap and low
> quality kind.
>
> Black / Red:
> - Qimen Hong (malty and can be chocolatey)
> - Lapsang Souchong (Ssssmokey!)
>
> Oolong:
> Only 2 types of oolong? Why not more? Coffee drinkers will most
> likely appreciate the highly roasted kinds.
> - Oriental Beauty
> - Medium roast Dancong - peachy, fruity, floral aromas, good
> aftertaste
> - Wuyi Dahongpao / Rougui / Shuixian -- highly frragrant and can be
> both masculine and feminine at the same time
> - How about Darjeeling and Nepalese oolong's? I know of good sources
> in the US.
>
> Pu'er:
> Have you found any candidate yet? If not I may have a few that you
> might be interested in.
>
> Good luck with the event.
>
> Phyll



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On 2007-06-07, Brent > wrote:

> Also, I'm on your side regarding space cowboy. Though he clearly
> knows a lot, he can be irritating and unnecessarily harsh to other
> posters. You're not the only one who is upset about his behavior.


To me, he just doesn't make sense. I haven't found the stuff he says
rude - just nonsensical and a little bit loon-ish.

> Still, there's nothing we can do about it as far as I can tell.


It's called a killfile... plonk him, and let it be done with. If your
newsreader doesn't support one, get one that does. If you use Google
Groups (it looks like you might), you could look into this:
http://www.penney.org/ggkiller.html

w

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I think Oriental Beauty could be a great choice (good call Phyll!).
As a bonus, you could use that and a light oolong to show the vast
spectrum of the oolong tea category, since I'm sure there are a lot of
people who think oolong is a distinct type.

-Brent

On Jun 6, 6:53 pm, pgwk > wrote:
> Hi Phyll
>
> Please keep feeding me the information. I will order the teas you
> mention. Can you please send, via provate e-mail, the names of
> recommended suppliers.
>
> I thought hard and long about going beyond just two oolongs. Maybe I
> should make it four.
>
> I don't know the Anji Baicha... It sounds just what I am looking for.
>
> I love Oriental Beauty... Is the group consensus that this may be the
> best for newbies?
>
> I need Pu'er sources. I hit the Shanghai shops when I was in China
> three weeks ago and know that I did not have a clue about what to buy
> but still love the el cheapos I came back with.
>
> Thanks, Phyll. I thought this event would be the education of newbies.
> It's turning out to be the education of Peter. Now, why is my wife
> hiding my credit card?
>
> On Jun 6, 9:43 pm, Phyll > wrote:
>
> > Dr. Keen,

>
> > For new tea drinkers, you may also want to consider these:

>
> > Green:
> > O Anji Baicha: it's naturally "sweet" and highly aromatic.
> > O Emei Shan Zhuyeqing - also "sweet", aromatic, and can be ricey.
> > Beautiful looking leaves.
> > XX Long Jing and Biluochun...I have my reservations. They can taste
> > green or simply characterless and flat if it's the cheap and low
> > quality kind.

>
> > Black / Red:
> > - Qimen Hong (malty and can be chocolatey)
> > - Lapsang Souchong (Ssssmokey!)

>
> > Oolong:
> > Only 2 types of oolong? Why not more? Coffee drinkers will most
> > likely appreciate the highly roasted kinds.
> > - Oriental Beauty
> > - Medium roast Dancong - peachy, fruity, floral aromas, good
> > aftertaste
> > - Wuyi Dahongpao / Rougui / Shuixian -- highly frragrant and can be
> > both masculine and feminine at the same time
> > - How about Darjeeling and Nepalese oolong's? I know of good sources
> > in the US.

>
> > Pu'er:
> > Have you found any candidate yet? If not I may have a few that you
> > might be interested in.

>
> > Good luck with the event.

>
> > Phyll



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"pgwk" > wrote in message
ps.com...

<SNIP>
> I need Pu'er sources. I hit the Shanghai shops when I was in China
> three weeks ago and know that I did not have a clue about what to buy
> but still love the el cheapos I came back with.

<SNIP>
I have been using Yunnan Sourcing LLC and Awoono Pu-erh Tea shop, both eBay
stores, for a lot of my recent pu'er purchases. They have a wide selection -
although not a lot of particularly long aged. I find myself acquiring a
lot of cooked Tuo Cha recently as I find they all have a distinctive sweet
finish (why, I really haven't been able to determine, but the sweetness is
distinct). Both of these 'stores' prices I find reasonable and their
delivery service all the way down here to Australia has been faultless. Most
recently I have been drinking a 2000 Phoenix cooked Tuo Cha from Awoono and
am about to order their 2003 Phoenix Golden Tips Tuo Cha which I expect to
be sweeter still.

Perhaps you may like to consider some cooked Tuo Cha (because of their
sweetness and reasonable price point) as an introduction to a different type
of pu'er. When I introduce pu'er to my friends I tend to find they accept
the new and 'unusual' taste more readily when I acclimatise their taste
buds with the sweeter Tuo Cha.

Also good luck with the venture.
Cheers
Mal
Oz




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On 2007-06-06, pgwk > wrote:

> So, here is the challenge. You have an audience of newbies, You - I -
> want them to leave elated and converts. What would you serve them? I
> will have the chance to serve them any teas, with plenty of staff in
> the black jackets and white gloves. It's a one-time opportunity so I
> need to get it right. Again, what would YOU offer?


> I've decided to keep it simple and offer just two blacks, two oolong,
> two greens, two whites plus a couple of "theatricals."


Well just keep in mind that everyone has different tastes; I've often
been surprised by the teas that people like (and don't like), so try not
to have too strong a preconceived notion of what someone's going to
like.

You also might want to have some herbal tisanes of some sort for people
who don't do caffeine.

And if most people are going to be trying most of the teas, you'd want
to think about the order you serve them in.

> Here's my current choices, with a few comments as to why:


Darjeeling - might be interesting to do one that's not a "true"
black - one of the estate first flushes that's more like an oolong. But
that would be very similar to an Oriental Beauty.

> Oolongs:
> 3. Iron Goddess, again obviously; safe and good.


Not to be too nit-picky, but in my understanding, "goddess" is a kind of
poor translation; Guan Yin is a particular bodhisattva, which is not
really the same thing as a goddess, though that might be the closest
translation to English. Tie Guan Yin most likely refers to an iron
statue of the bodhisattva "Guan Yin". You'll see it translated various
ways

I think this is a good choice; my suggestion is a medium to dark roast
one, rather than a greener one.

Since I think you said you're in NYC, I would strongly recommend that
you go visit Tea Gallery, if you haven't already - Michael and Winnie
can probably recommend (and sell you) some good teas, and on top of
that, might be willing to either speak or recommend someone who can.
Even if you don't want to use them as your only source, I think you'd be
well advised to talk to them about the event you're planning.
http://theteagallery.com/

Rather than a full cake of an "affordable" pu'erh, you might try to find
a smaller piece of a less affordable, but better cake.

w

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"pgwk" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> Hi Phyll
>
> Please keep feeding me the information. I will order the teas you
> mention. Can you please send, via provate e-mail, the names of
> recommended suppliers.
>
> I thought hard and long about going beyond just two oolongs. Maybe I
> should make it four.
>
> I don't know the Anji Baicha... It sounds just what I am looking for.
>
> I love Oriental Beauty... Is the group consensus that this may be the
> best for newbies?
>
> I need Pu'er sources. I hit the Shanghai shops when I was in China
> three weeks ago and know that I did not have a clue about what to buy
> but still love the el cheapos I came back with.


<<<<SNIP>>>

jingteashop.com has a raw 2000 Hai Wan Gu Hua Cha that I think would be an
easy introduction to Puerh. It has some age to it and is smooth with a
sweet finish. The price is pretty reasonable considering it's a 400g bing.
The only problem is, you won't need a hammer to break it up. It comes apart
quite nicely. The advantage is you can get mostly whole leaves.

You also might want to consider a nice Keemun. After my first taste, I
couldn't go back to what I knew previously as black tea.

I'd agree, if you want to include a Japanese tea, Sencha may be a better
choice than Gyokuro. I don't have a lot of Gyokuro experience, but found
Sencha easier to get "right" and easier to take a liking to.

But then again, so much of this is personal taste, so I'm not even sure if
anything I've said is even worth two cents. Lucky for you, it's free!

Blues


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I only have one comment regarding SC. I for one can agree with your
original comments, as I did feel the brunt of his abuse when I first
arrived to RFDT. He pushed me to a breaking point, where I sent him
an email directly with some harsh words that were very out of
character for me. During that time, I did get notification that
someone was attempting to access admin sections of my site. I have no
way of knowing who it was, but I assumed it was him or another
technically inclined angry RFDT member. I don't like getting that
angry, but when attacked, one must defend themselves or forever be a
victim of abuse. Had it not been for the kind emails I received from
Brent, Mike, Peter, & Shen I would have definitely given up on the
group and left for good. I'm happy I stuck with it though. You guys
are like an encyclopedia about tea. Some postings go way over my
head, but I'm learning a lot here.

Desirea


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Default An invitation and some inf re Space Cowboy

You're the one who needs a life vest. You still haven't given me your
publisher contact info. That was for my lawyers who say you seem to
have deep pockets. I don't hide behind anything I say anywhere. My
instant psycho babble analysis of you passive-aggressive with latent
homosexual tendencies. You play the victim milking it for all it's
worth and you follow guys around on the Internet.

Jim

PS You're damn lucky I can't get the MAC hooked up to the Internet
and my current network card can only handle a few bytes at a time.
Who is your ghost writer? You're still a lazy ass.

pgwk wrote:
> I almost didn't send this message and also thought carefully about
> dropping out of RFDT, which would be a big loss for me - I enjoy the
> group and am learning so much. I have decided to address the
> underlying issue very directly: Space Cowboy. The second part of this
> posting is a firm effort to rescue the group from him. I do not intend
> to discuss it/him or respond to him; as I stated after his last and
> silly attack on me, no reply is needed or merited. But, something
> needs to be done and I hope I can help RFDT in this regard.


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On Jun 7, 10:31 am, Space Cowboy > wrote:
> You're the one who needs a life vest. You still haven't given me your
> publisher contact info. That was for my lawyers who say you seem to
> have deep pockets. I don't hide behind anything I say anywhere. My
> instant psycho babble analysis of you passive-aggressive with latent
> homosexual tendencies. You play the victim milking it for all it's
> worth and you follow guys around on the Internet.
>
> Jim
>
> PS You're damn lucky I can't get the MAC hooked up to the Internet
> and my current network card can only handle a few bytes at a time.
> Who is your ghost writer? You're still a lazy ass.
>
> pgwk wrote:
> > I almost didn't send this message and also thought carefully about
> > dropping out of RFDT, which would be a big loss for me - I enjoy the
> > group and am learning so much. I have decided to address the
> > underlying issue very directly: Space Cowboy. The second part of this
> > posting is a firm effort to rescue the group from him. I do not intend
> > to discuss it/him or respond to him; as I stated after his last and
> > silly attack on me, no reply is needed or merited. But, something
> > needs to be done and I hope I can help RFDT in this regard.


Honestly you could possibly be well served by maybe just trying to
ease up a bit. What kick do you get out of being so odd and biting? It
always appears as someone trying to be/sound/act so highly intelligent
and above others when in reality it is easy to distinguish those with
the real knowledge and the true essence of tea. And sadly they are
some of the quietest members of this NG.

You do have the ability to actually contribute and be helpful, you
just choose not to. That always bothers me, but I will say that I'm
not so sure pgwk is doing much better. I've worked as a writer, and a
post like this just emphasizes the fact that he maybe should not be
writing a book at this stage and also should rethink this promotional
tea tasting until he has the knowledge and true passion inside to know
implicitly and completely what to serve and how to go about it.

What this newsgroup was and what it currently is are two different
things. I'd much rather have fun, active, yet retreaded conversations
and answering the common newbie questions over a stark barren
wasteland of technical talk and arguments. I also think that as with
any endeavor there is a fine line between actually enjoying something
and obsession. Knowing yourself and those boundaries is something I
have always been good at and anytime I notice the scales tipping to
the obsession side, I make sure I slow down, step back, and get back
on track.

Balance is what life is all about, and truly both SC and pgwk should
take a serious look at themselves and try to regain some balance. I
know these are probably wasted words, but in the small chance it might
fire off a neuron or two even for a second it's worth it. Else, just
flame me and feel good about your lofty perch.

- Dominic



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Hi Dominic....

No, no flaming and no reply, just withdrawal. I'd hoped I was
contrbuting to the group through my invitations, but......... Life
really is too short for all this.

Anyone still interested in the NYC event or the bibliography, which is
going well, please contact me by private e-mail. As for the book, I
have at least informed you all of the references and no one has to
read it, after all.

This was the first Usenet group I have been on. Definitely a unique
experience.

On Jun 7, 11:16 am, "Dominic T." > wrote:
> On Jun 7, 10:31 am, Space Cowboy > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > You're the one who needs a life vest. You still haven't given me your
> > publisher contact info. That was for my lawyers who say you seem to
> > have deep pockets. I don't hide behind anything I say anywhere. My
> > instant psycho babble analysis of you passive-aggressive with latent
> > homosexual tendencies. You play the victim milking it for all it's
> > worth and you follow guys around on the Internet.

>
> > Jim

>
> > PS You're damn lucky I can't get the MAC hooked up to the Internet
> > and my current network card can only handle a few bytes at a time.
> > Who is your ghost writer? You're still a lazy ass.

>
> > pgwk wrote:
> > > I almost didn't send this message and also thought carefully about
> > > dropping out of RFDT, which would be a big loss for me - I enjoy the
> > > group and am learning so much. I have decided to address the
> > > underlying issue very directly: Space Cowboy. The second part of this
> > > posting is a firm effort to rescue the group from him. I do not intend
> > > to discuss it/him or respond to him; as I stated after his last and
> > > silly attack on me, no reply is needed or merited. But, something
> > > needs to be done and I hope I can help RFDT in this regard.

>
> Honestly you could possibly be well served by maybe just trying to
> ease up a bit. What kick do you get out of being so odd and biting? It
> always appears as someone trying to be/sound/act so highly intelligent
> and above others when in reality it is easy to distinguish those with
> the real knowledge and the true essence of tea. And sadly they are
> some of the quietest members of this NG.
>
> You do have the ability to actually contribute and be helpful, you
> just choose not to. That always bothers me, but I will say that I'm
> not so sure pgwk is doing much better. I've worked as a writer, and a
> post like this just emphasizes the fact that he maybe should not be
> writing a book at this stage and also should rethink this promotional
> tea tasting until he has the knowledge and true passion inside to know
> implicitly and completely what to serve and how to go about it.
>
> What this newsgroup was and what it currently is are two different
> things. I'd much rather have fun, active, yet retreaded conversations
> and answering the common newbie questions over a stark barren
> wasteland of technical talk and arguments. I also think that as with
> any endeavor there is a fine line between actually enjoying something
> and obsession. Knowing yourself and those boundaries is something I
> have always been good at and anytime I notice the scales tipping to
> the obsession side, I make sure I slow down, step back, and get back
> on track.
>
> Balance is what life is all about, and truly both SC and pgwk should
> take a serious look at themselves and try to regain some balance. I
> know these are probably wasted words, but in the small chance it might
> fire off a neuron or two even for a second it's worth it. Else, just
> flame me and feel good about your lofty perch.
>
> - Dominic- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -



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On Jun 6, 11:11 pm, Will Yardley >
wrote:

> If you use Google
> Groups (it looks like you might), you could look into this:http://www.penney.org/ggkiller.html


Thanks a bunch for this. I have been looking for a Google killfile for
a long time. My Agent newsreader has it built in but Google has never
had that option. Again THANKS

Mike
http://www.pu-erh.net


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On Jun 7, 10:16 am, "Dominic T." > wrote:
> On Jun 7, 10:31 am, Space Cowboy > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > You're the one who needs a life vest. You still haven't given me your
> > publisher contact info. That was for my lawyers who say you seem to
> > have deep pockets. I don't hide behind anything I say anywhere. My
> > instant psycho babble analysis of you passive-aggressive with latent
> > homosexual tendencies. You play the victim milking it for all it's
> > worth and you follow guys around on the Internet.

>
> > Jim

>
> > PS You're damn lucky I can't get the MAC hooked up to the Internet
> > and my current network card can only handle a few bytes at a time.
> > Who is your ghost writer? You're still a lazy ass.

>
> > pgwk wrote:
> > > I almost didn't send this message and also thought carefully about
> > > dropping out of RFDT, which would be a big loss for me - I enjoy the
> > > group and am learning so much. I have decided to address the
> > > underlying issue very directly: Space Cowboy. The second part of this
> > > posting is a firm effort to rescue the group from him. I do not intend
> > > to discuss it/him or respond to him; as I stated after his last and
> > > silly attack on me, no reply is needed or merited. But, something
> > > needs to be done and I hope I can help RFDT in this regard.

>
> Honestly you could possibly be well served by maybe just trying to
> ease up a bit. What kick do you get out of being so odd and biting? It
> always appears as someone trying to be/sound/act so highly intelligent
> and above others when in reality it is easy to distinguish those with
> the real knowledge and the true essence of tea. And sadly they are
> some of the quietest members of this NG.
>
> You do have the ability to actually contribute and be helpful, you
> just choose not to. That always bothers me, but I will say that I'm
> not so sure pgwk is doing much better. I've worked as a writer, and a
> post like this just emphasizes the fact that he maybe should not be
> writing a book at this stage and also should rethink this promotional
> tea tasting until he has the knowledge and true passion inside to know
> implicitly and completely what to serve and how to go about it.
>
> What this newsgroup was and what it currently is are two different
> things. I'd much rather have fun, active, yet retreaded conversations
> and answering the common newbie questions over a stark barren
> wasteland of technical talk and arguments. I also think that as with
> any endeavor there is a fine line between actually enjoying something
> and obsession. Knowing yourself and those boundaries is something I
> have always been good at and anytime I notice the scales tipping to
> the obsession side, I make sure I slow down, step back, and get back
> on track.
>
> Balance is what life is all about, and truly both SC and pgwk should
> take a serious look at themselves and try to regain some balance. I
> know these are probably wasted words, but in the small chance it might
> fire off a neuron or two even for a second it's worth it. Else, just
> flame me and feel good about your lofty perch.
>
> - Dominic- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


Space has a wide variety of interests outside of tea as represented by
his profile. Here on thi group, he's tea involved. Peter is first of
all a writer; not all tea lovers have that skill. Toci

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On Jun 6, 5:07 pm, Fran > wrote:
> On Jun 6, 6:54 pm, pgwk > wrote:
>
> > I almost didn't send this message and also thought carefully about
> > dropping out of RFDT, which would be a big loss for me - I enjoy the
> > group and am learning so much. I have decided to address the
> > underlying issue very directly: Space Cowboy. The second part of this
> > posting is a firm effort to rescue the group from him. I do not intend
> > to discuss it/him or respond to him; as I stated after his last and
> > silly attack on me, no reply is needed or merited. But, something
> > needs to be done and I hope I can help RFDT in this regard.

>
> I haven't been following this group very closely lately, so I'm not
> really sure what this is all about. But I have been hanging out here
> for a while, and I don't recall Space Cowboy ever behaving
> inappropriately here. On the contrary, he's always been very helpful
> and seems to be very knowledgeable.
>
> I don't think this is the appropriate place to be airing personal
> vendettas.


Perhaps you should read the posts of the past month. They are
vitriolic, aggressive, threatening and pointless rants expressed in
some need to have the last word, no matter the spiteful language.
Peter is not the only one attacked. Many, many of us seem to provoke
these outrageous posts. I am sure, too, many newbies and less active
posters are intimidated by Jim's "flaming" tirades.
And, as far as I am concerned, this is hardly a vendetta. If a
member's site is sabotaged and is feeling at risk because of the
behavior of another member, this needs to be addressed.
I, for one, am very grateful for the "heads up!". Being knowledgeable
about tea is no excuse for horrific behavior.
Peter's contributions are thoughtful and I would hate to see him drop
out.
Shen

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On Jun 6, 6:04 pm, Brent > wrote:
> With regard to your event:
>
> 1. I highly suggest NOT going gyokuro. It's too expensive, it's way
> too easy to screw up, and it is more of an acquired taste when brewed
> properly. Sencha might be a better option-- it's easier to brew and
> more likely to please the inexperienced palatte.
>
> 2. I might consider a Wuyi rock oolong (such as Da Hong Pao, Shui
> Xian, Rou Gui, etc.) as one of your oolong choices. They are dark and
> heavy, which could be a nice contrast to one of the lighter oolongs
> you have already selected.
>
> Also, I'm on your side regarding space cowboy. Though he clearly
> knows a lot, he can be irritating and unnecessarily harsh to other
> posters. You're not the only one who is upset about his behavior.
> Still, there's nothing we can do about it as far as I can tell.
>
> -Brent
>
> On Jun 6, 5:18 pm, pgwk > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Agreed. Fair comment. Subject closed. I think, though, you may find
> > some different perceptions in the group. I'm glad you haven't read
> > some of the postings.

>
> > On Jun 6, 8:07 pm, Fran > wrote:

>
> > > On Jun 6, 6:54 pm, pgwk > wrote:

>
> > > > I almost didn't send this message and also thought carefully about
> > > > dropping out of RFDT, which would be a big loss for me - I enjoy the
> > > > group and am learning so much. I have decided to address the
> > > > underlying issue very directly: Space Cowboy. The second part of this
> > > > posting is a firm effort to rescue the group from him. I do not intend
> > > > to discuss it/him or respond to him; as I stated after his last and
> > > > silly attack on me, no reply is needed or merited. But, something
> > > > needs to be done and I hope I can help RFDT in this regard.

>
> > > I haven't been following this group very closely lately, so I'm not
> > > really sure what this is all about. But I have been hanging out here
> > > for a while, and I don't recall Space Cowboy ever behaving
> > > inappropriately here. On the contrary, he's always been very helpful
> > > and seems to be very knowledgeable.

>
> > > I don't think this is the appropriate place to be airing personal
> > > vendettas.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

I would suggest a simple Mao Feng and a LongJing.
In regard to blacks/reds, I agree with Phyll. A good, Yunnan golden
whose chocolate, toasty, malt/scotchy flavours are easily
distinguishable.
Bai Hoa oolong, for sure. Or a reliable Da Hoa Pong (with the good old
red robe story that accompanies it). And a Dan Cong.
As far as a pu-erh, sheng silver needles or silver buds are very
gently palatable and an inexpensive shu or shu toucha can be a jumping-
off spot from which pu-erh interest can stem. Lots of good sources:
HouDe's in the country, of course and Pu-erh Shop, although not as
quality oriented. In China, Yunnan Sourcing or Dragoin Tea House (both
eBay).
I always think of Spring oolong Pouchong as a "yellow tea".
Shen



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Default An invitation and some inf re Space Cowboy

On Jun 7, 7:31 am, Space Cowboy > wrote:
> You're the one who needs a life vest. You still haven't given me your
> publisher contact info. That was for my lawyers who say you seem to
> have deep pockets. I don't hide behind anything I say anywhere. My
> instant psycho babble analysis of you passive-aggressive with latent
> homosexual tendencies. You play the victim milking it for all it's
> worth and you follow guys around on the Internet.
>
> Jim
>
> PS You're damn lucky I can't get the MAC hooked up to the Internet
> and my current network card can only handle a few bytes at a time.
> Who is your ghost writer? You're still a lazy ass.
>
>
>
> pgwk wrote:
> > I almost didn't send this message and also thought carefully about
> > dropping out of RFDT, which would be a big loss for me - I enjoy the
> > group and am learning so much. I have decided to address the
> > underlying issue very directly: Space Cowboy. The second part of this
> > posting is a firm effort to rescue the group from him. I do not intend
> > to discuss it/him or respond to him; as I stated after his last and
> > silly attack on me, no reply is needed or merited. But, something
> > needs to be done and I hope I can help RFDT in this regard.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -


Jim,
You've gone way off the deep end here. Cut it out! Your bitterness,
egocentricity and childish name-calling is irrelevant and
reprehensible and has nothing to do with the topic of this group -
tea. Can you kindly attempt to contain you hostility and comment only
in regard to tea?
Grow up!
Shen

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On Jun 7, 12:25 pm, pgwk > wrote:
> Hi Dominic....
>
> No, no flaming and no reply, just withdrawal. I'd hoped I was
> contrbuting to the group through my invitations, but......... Life
> really is too short for all this.
>
> Anyone still interested in the NYC event or the bibliography, which is
> going well, please contact me by private e-mail. As for the book, I
> have at least informed you all of the references and no one has to
> read it, after all.
>
> This was the first Usenet group I have been on. Definitely a unique
> experience.
>
> On Jun 7, 11:16 am, "Dominic T." > wrote:
>
> > On Jun 7, 10:31 am, Space Cowboy > wrote:

>
> > > You're the one who needs a life vest. You still haven't given me your
> > > publisher contact info. That was for my lawyers who say you seem to
> > > have deep pockets. I don't hide behind anything I say anywhere. My
> > > instant psycho babble analysis of you passive-aggressive with latent
> > > homosexual tendencies. You play the victim milking it for all it's
> > > worth and you follow guys around on the Internet.

>
> > > Jim

>
> > > PS You're damn lucky I can't get the MAC hooked up to the Internet
> > > and my current network card can only handle a few bytes at a time.
> > > Who is your ghost writer? You're still a lazy ass.

>
> > > pgwk wrote:
> > > > I almost didn't send this message and also thought carefully about
> > > > dropping out of RFDT, which would be a big loss for me - I enjoy the
> > > > group and am learning so much. I have decided to address the
> > > > underlying issue very directly: Space Cowboy. The second part of this
> > > > posting is a firm effort to rescue the group from him. I do not intend
> > > > to discuss it/him or respond to him; as I stated after his last and
> > > > silly attack on me, no reply is needed or merited. But, something
> > > > needs to be done and I hope I can help RFDT in this regard.

>
> > Honestly you could possibly be well served by maybe just trying to
> > ease up a bit. What kick do you get out of being so odd and biting? It
> > always appears as someone trying to be/sound/act so highly intelligent
> > and above others when in reality it is easy to distinguish those with
> > the real knowledge and the true essence of tea. And sadly they are
> > some of the quietest members of this NG.

>
> > You do have the ability to actually contribute and be helpful, you
> > just choose not to. That always bothers me, but I will say that I'm
> > not so sure pgwk is doing much better. I've worked as a writer, and a
> > post like this just emphasizes the fact that he maybe should not be
> > writing a book at this stage and also should rethink this promotional
> > tea tasting until he has the knowledge and true passion inside to know
> > implicitly and completely what to serve and how to go about it.

>
> > What this newsgroup was and what it currently is are two different
> > things. I'd much rather have fun, active, yet retreaded conversations
> > and answering the common newbie questions over a stark barren
> > wasteland of technical talk and arguments. I also think that as with
> > any endeavor there is a fine line between actually enjoying something
> > and obsession. Knowing yourself and those boundaries is something I
> > have always been good at and anytime I notice the scales tipping to
> > the obsession side, I make sure I slow down, step back, and get back
> > on track.

>
> > Balance is what life is all about, and truly both SC and pgwk should
> > take a serious look at themselves and try to regain some balance. I
> > know these are probably wasted words, but in the small chance it might
> > fire off a neuron or two even for a second it's worth it. Else, just
> > flame me and feel good about your lofty perch.

>
> > - Dominic- Hide quoted text -

>
> > - Show quoted text -


I fear that you may be missing some of my point though, it appears
that while you have done a lot of research online and some travel,
that you haven't really "lived" what tea is all about.

How can I explain? Feelings, moods, history, nationality, religion,
people... that is what tea is really about. Not whether your water is
from the finest artesian well or heated to the nearest .001 degree and
steeped for the exact millisecond which is recorded in a logbook.

It also seems like you are trying to cover too broad of an area in
your tea as well, which is causing you to falter... which would happen
to anyone attempting to do what you are.

I can brew Gyokuro properly almost every time, why? because I've taken
my lumps and ruined a lot of expensive tea and sat and watched those
more skilled than I, and worked at it... and this is for almost every
different Gyokuro not just learn one and they all come easy. And even
then year to year it can change. This isn't to brag but to make a
point. How about going one of two ways (I normally do not offer advice
to help someone in a business pursuit unless I'm gaining something,
but I will here):

1. Just give a quick overview of each tea region and a little about
it, with a brewing of one specific type in their style.

2. Cover one region only. India, China, Japan, etc.

Everything would become easier, your guests would get more out of it,
and you would too. I fear this is the same problem your book may face.
As someone who has worked as an editor I've seen this a million and
one times. Focus on what you know very well, distill it down to the
core, and cover that and that only.

If you are weak in Japanese culture and tea, don't cover it. Defer to
some good texts or resources. Don't know Pu-Erh, don't try to, mention
it and again defer to proper resources. Giving people second-hand
knowledge with no insight of your own is useless and even damaging.

What happens is someone *will* know, call you on it, and that's the
end of your credibility and your book sales. This is your first
experience with Usenet for sure, it is also a fairly amateur way of
approaching a book and a demonstration so I'm guessing this is new
territory for you too. Simplify, stick to what you know, and know
well, and knock it out of the park. Your guests will thank you, rather
than be confused and overwhelmed.

That's the most free advice I've ever given out to anyone with a
financial gain involved, and there is a reason I chose to do so... so
maybe don't brush it off and actually think about it.

- Dominic

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On Jun 7, 12:25 pm, pgwk > wrote:
> Hi Dominic....
>
> No, no flaming and no reply, just withdrawal.


One last thing, well maybe two, don't withdrawal from me or anyone.
You stuck yourself out there, withdrawal is defeat... you put yourself
out there now stand by it and engage those around you. This isn't a
run-by-posting.

The second is to expound on one area I wasn't clear on in my post
above, you may even want to focus on just one type of tea. Say Oolong,
and speak and brew just that in some different incarnations. From
green/flowery to heavy roasted. You've still taken your customers on a
journey, a focused and coherent journey, and that will cause them to
want to learn more or branch out from there on their own terms with
your book and the new found Internet resources at their fingertips.
Just plant the seed, don't try to plant it, water it, grow it,
harvest, package, and deliver it all in a too short period.

- Dominic


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pgwk je napisal:
> I almost didn't send this message and also thought carefully about
> dropping out of RFDT, which would be a big loss for me - I enjoy the
> group and am learning so much. I have decided to address the
> underlying issue very directly: Space Cowboy. The second part of this
> posting is a firm effort to rescue the group from him. I do not intend
> to discuss it/him or respond to him; as I stated after his last and
> silly attack on me, no reply is needed or merited. But, something
> needs to be done and I hope I can help RFDT in this regard.
>
> Message Part 1
>
> I have an interesting and, hope, fun challenge for you, my colleagues
> in the delightful exploration of the inexhaustible pleasure of teas. I
> am a pygmy in the field and neither knowledgeable nor an industry
> expert, but I do have some visibility in the business and academic
> fields, where a few people are finding out about my interest in tea
> and my forthcoming book. This is resulting in some intriguing new
> contacts and opportunities. This message is about one of them, where I
> would love your insights and opinions.
>
> Up in New York City, just next to Fifth Avenue, where taking one's
> wife shopping can cost about a thousand dollars a block, there is a
> hotel with a famous name that has contacted me about putting on some
> little showcase events around tea. I meet with the Banqueting Manager
> next week. Here's my thinking (By the way, I don't expect to make any
> money on this, though should he insist on stuffing hundred dollar
> bills into my pocket, I will assuredly not resist him; I am doing this
> because it's fun and it will help sell my book; which will earn me
> maybe $1.20 a copy. Samuel Johnson famously said that no one but a
> blockhead ever wrote except for money - hi, call me Blockhead.)
>
> So, here is the challenge. You have an audience of newbies, You - I -
> want them to leave elated and converts. What would you serve them? I
> will have the chance to serve them any teas, with plenty of staff in
> the black jackets and white gloves. It's a one-time opportunity so I
> need to get it right. Again, what would YOU offer?
>
> I've decided to keep it simple and offer just two blacks, two oolong,
> two greens, two whites plus a couple of "theatricals."
>
> Here's my current choices, with a few comments as to why:
>
> Black teas:
> 1. A Darjeeling, obviously, and one that is fragrant and full and
> contrasts with any hint of the English Breakfast most of the people
> will probably associate with "tea." I'm leaning to either an Ambootia
> second flush or Poobong first flush.
> 2. A Taiwan Lapsong because I simply love it and also because most of
> my newbie friends are very struck by how different it is from any tea
> they know. I converted my CPA yesterday to whole leaf tea rfom
> Celestial Whatevers, when she came to my house to tut-tut about my
> record-keeping through a steaming, glow in the dark Lapsang. She
> phoned me today to say she stopped at Wegman's on her way home and
> bought an Ingenui infuser. So, when my kids ask "Dad, what did you do
> to help save the planet?" I can say, I rescued Susan from drinking
> lawnmower effusions.
> Both my choices are traditional and safe. I thought of a Guranse or
> big Assam, instead. I want something that makes the audience forget
> about Earl Greys and English Breakfasts. I've excluded Ceylon estate
> teas, much as I love them, for that reason.
>
> Oolongs:
> 3. Iron Goddess, again obviously; safe and good.
> 4. Golden Lily, mainly for its vibrant appearance and how it expands
> in the infuser.
> I didn't want anything too light, which led me reluctantly not to
> exclude Spring Pouchong. I also wanted to avoid anything too expensive
> - a major theme in my book is how inexpensive great teas really are --
> so no aged oolong.
> I love oolongs, which are the tea most unfamiliar to newbies -- 1% of
> total US tea sales? I'm not excited by my choices. Any ideas on some
> Wham!!!!! alternatives?
>
> Greens:
> 5. Gyokuro: the toughest choice of all. I screw up two out of three
> attempts to make it and don't know how to ensure a reliable and fresh
> supply. No Matcha, for the same reasons. I thought of Houjicha, and
> even Genmaicha for its novelty value. Obviously, I need a Japanese
> green in the show, especially to wean people off Korean supermarket
> sawdust and Indonesian cement powder.
> 6. Pi Lo Chun: I stayed away from Dragonwell only because I've found
> that most of my newbie friends are very disappointed by it - too light
> and too grassy. Plus, too many quality/grade problems, and the high
> cost of Imperial Dragonwell. Pi Lo Chun seems an "easy" tea to get to
> know.
>
> Whites:
> 7. White Peony: again, easy to enjoy and savor. I kept away from
> Silver Needles and Adam's Peak because these are in my opinion teas
> that you come to once you have explored the fuller and stronger ones.
> 8. White Darjeeling, from Poobong. I love this stuff and it's a good
> way to end the tasting - where we began, in Darjeeling.
>
> Now, for theatricals. Yixing teapots (I get to take them home; I love
> them.). Adagio Ingenui infusers to get across the point that whole
> leaf tea is as convenient and easy to use as tea bags. I am clueless
> about Japanese teaware but obviously the Gyokuro needs its own special
> equipment. I'd welcome recommendations.
>
> A flowery white and a pu-erh for the finale. I don't like most
> flavored teas but a Numi Lavender Dream, Pearl Jasmine or the like
> sure looks great as its little floret or teaspoon becomes a glass
> teapot underwater forest. Then, an affordable pu-ehr - in big cake
> form. Master of ceremonies (me) hands cake and knife to nice lady or
> gentleman and asks her/him to cut off a slice. Nice l/g fails so out
> comes the hammer and chisel. Smash!
>
> So, that's the menu. In addition, I need a good speaker from Fair
> Trade/Eco Exchange or the like to talk about the social issues of tea,
> an expert with good photos to show about hoofing it up in the
> mountains to get great tea, and an industry specialist to talk about
> the future of great teas in the U.S. If you know of candidates, I'm
> interested. Obviously, I will add to the agenda something about the
> Yunnan earthquake and provide an opportunity for the audience to make
> a donation; I need advice/contacts on how to do this.
>
> So, that's the idea. If it is of interest to you, I'd love to hear
> your own views. I will give full acknowledgement to contributors. If
> it does turn out that I make some money out of this, I will ensure
> that contributors/speakers get a share of it.
>
> I hope that the group will totally change my agenda and generate a
> more interesting list of teas.
>
>
> Message Part 2
>
> Now, one other point. Always lurking, anonymously and cowardly, with
> no profile published even after many years on RFDT, is the paranoid
> and very cruel Space Cowboy, whose itchy fingertips are probably ready
> to launch yet more vitriol in response to this message. SC is in fact
> P--- A---, a Colorado Rockies fan, lover of soccer, superbly
> knowledgeable about tea, who has made over the years a few visits to
> such sites as alt.sex.movies. P---, what were you thinking of -- snuff
> films and ******* powder room kiss scenes and half-open blouse
> cleavage!!!!???? His violence of language appears to have begun around
> 2004, according to the two professional mental health counselors I
> asked - legally - to look at his diatribes. I'm the founder of a
> little agency that helps victims of domestic violence, so I know the
> scary pattern of escalating threats leading to potential real damage;
> my advisers think that Space Cowboy is more a danger to himself than
> to others but one of them comments that once the threats from a
> sociopath start - his verbal symptoms appear to be what is termed
> secondary sociopathy - then worry. I have a personal concern here, in
> that my web site got hijacked a year ago by a P-- type expert and I
> had to put up with hundreds of Space Cowboy equivalent logomania
> assaults. I have, on the advice of my website genius, taken my site
> down for a week or so, to Cowboy proof it. So, Paul, don't even think
> about it. Oh, and be careful on the threats. The last one, about
> contacting my publisher to drive me out of "here", crosses the line
> between bluster and danger. If I'd sent you my publisher's e-mail
> address as you demanded and you'd actually followed through, you would
> have committed a Federal crime. To quote approximately from memory one
> of my neighbors, who works in a relevant government agency (when you
> live 30 miles outside DC, as I do, you have a lot of helpful pals who
> work for Fed alphabet soup names to talk to) and to whom I've shown a
> few of your rants: "Another Master of the Universe, who thinks he is
> the law. We see a hundred ot them, a week. They don't know what they
> are doing till an agent turns up on their doorstep." Oh, and please do
> read Title 17 of the U.S. Copyright Code before you tell me what I
> can't quote and cite from RFTD archives.
>
> After discussions with a number of members of RFDT, I've decided to
> make public my findings and concerns because they damage our group,
> individually and as a community. There are only 600 or so members and
> activity is "medium." It should and could be 1,600 and "heavy." How
> many newbies are scared off by what they see? How many really good
> contributors withdraw from RFDT? The first Space Cowboy slash and burn
> attack that I came across was his vicious and truly weird assault on
> the publishers of the Art of Tea magazine, in April as I recall. I
> note that they haven't come back. Please do, Guys, it's for me a great
> publication, typos and all.
>
> Anyway, back to the NYC event. I would love to hear your
> recommendations, will make sure I do not misuse any information/ideas
> you give me, and hope that at least a few of you will be my guest at
> it. It's not guaranteed to happen, of course, but the probability is
> in the 90% range. Should be kinda fun. And it will be fun just to see
> if there is any consensus on what to serve newbies.



Are you a real person, pgwk? Or, maybe, are you for real?

Espacio gaucho is the USENET fundamentalist with a tea obssession -
aren't we all? So, keep up the good work SC.

Goran

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On Jun 7, 3:49 pm, "Dominic T." > wrote:
> On Jun 7, 12:25 pm, pgwk > wrote:
>

Oh dear. I guess I should reply to this message, but quickly and
simply. Yes, it's a defeat, definitely, but to pursue the metaphor
it's a defeat in a war not worth fighting. Just as it's a huge mistake
to respond to an obscene phone caller or to stand up to a drunk in a
bar looking for a punch up, it does not make sense to engage in a
conversation built on anonymous attack. You don't know who I am, what
I do, what I've published, or even what my book is actually about; you
know zilch about it, zilch. Is it possible that I've thought about the
issues you raise, that in fact I know quite a bit about tea but am
sensibly and respectfully deferring to the extraordinary depth and
breadth of knowledge in the group? Don't you think I may be smart
enough to ensure professionals handle the "event?"

It's quite possible that your instincts are correct and that I an
incompetent amateur and the book will be a dud. Maybe. Maybe not. But,
regardless, why on earth should I engage in discussion with you? I
note the arrival of "Goran" with insults, asking if I am a real
person. I think I am. I note, too, the fact that none of the attackers
provide profiles of themselves. That gives them - you and Goran - the
advantage of anonymity. I am not anonymous. You may, if you wish,
check me out on Google, Amazon, Scholar Google, and once I put my site
back up, on Peterkeen.com.

I probably made a mistake taking on SC. So be it. But, for the record,
over thirty members of RFDT have contacted me over the past two months
about his behavior, with some evidence of efforts to attack their
sites, clear evidence of his removing Google archived messages, and
some non-RFDT messages that are literally perverse. I'd hoped to
defuse his damage. You mentioned that many of the best contributors to
the group are the quietest. Agreed, and more than a few of those are
quiet because thay've been hammered by your friend.

So, yes, an admission of defeat..... I'm intrigued about what you guys
get out of all this. It's not a pyschology that I can understand.

Can we both simply discontinue communication between us, please.



>
>
>
> > Hi Dominic....

>
> > No, no flaming and no reply, just withdrawal. I'd hoped I was
> > contrbuting to the group through my invitations, but......... Life
> > really is too short for all this.

>
> > Anyone still interested in the NYC event or the bibliography, which is
> > going well, please contact me by private e-mail. As for the book, I
> > have at least informed you all of the references and no one has to
> > read it, after all.

>
> > This was the first Usenet group I have been on. Definitely a unique
> > experience.

>
> > On Jun 7, 11:16 am, "Dominic T." > wrote:

>
> > > On Jun 7, 10:31 am, Space Cowboy > wrote:

>
> > > > You're the one who needs a life vest. You still haven't given me your
> > > > publisher contact info. That was for my lawyers who say you seem to
> > > > have deep pockets. I don't hide behind anything I say anywhere. My
> > > > instant psycho babble analysis of you passive-aggressive with latent
> > > > homosexual tendencies. You play the victim milking it for all it's
> > > > worth and you follow guys around on the Internet.

>
> > > > Jim

>
> > > > PS You're damn lucky I can't get the MAC hooked up to the Internet
> > > > and my current network card can only handle a few bytes at a time.
> > > > Who is your ghost writer? You're still a lazy ass.

>
> > > > pgwk wrote:
> > > > > I almost didn't send this message and also thought carefully about
> > > > > dropping out of RFDT, which would be a big loss for me - I enjoy the
> > > > > group and am learning so much. I have decided to address the
> > > > > underlying issue very directly: Space Cowboy. The second part of this
> > > > > posting is a firm effort to rescue the group from him. I do not intend
> > > > > to discuss it/him or respond to him; as I stated after his last and
> > > > > silly attack on me, no reply is needed or merited. But, something
> > > > > needs to be done and I hope I can help RFDT in this regard.

>
> > > Honestly you could possibly be well served by maybe just trying to
> > > ease up a bit. What kick do you get out of being so odd and biting? It
> > > always appears as someone trying to be/sound/act so highly intelligent
> > > and above others when in reality it is easy to distinguish those with
> > > the real knowledge and the true essence of tea. And sadly they are
> > > some of the quietest members of this NG.

>
> > > You do have the ability to actually contribute and be helpful, you
> > > just choose not to. That always bothers me, but I will say that I'm
> > > not so sure pgwk is doing much better. I've worked as a writer, and a
> > > post like this just emphasizes the fact that he maybe should not be
> > > writing a book at this stage and also should rethink this promotional
> > > tea tasting until he has the knowledge and true passion inside to know
> > > implicitly and completely what to serve and how to go about it.

>
> > > What this newsgroup was and what it currently is are two different
> > > things. I'd much rather have fun, active, yet retreaded conversations
> > > and answering the common newbie questions over a stark barren
> > > wasteland of technical talk and arguments. I also think that as with
> > > any endeavor there is a fine line between actually enjoying something
> > > and obsession. Knowing yourself and those boundaries is something I
> > > have always been good at and anytime I notice the scales tipping to
> > > the obsession side, I make sure I slow down, step back, and get back
> > > on track.

>
> > > Balance is what life is all about, and truly both SC and pgwk should
> > > take a serious look at themselves and try to regain some balance. I
> > > know these are probably wasted words, but in the small chance it might
> > > fire off a neuron or two even for a second it's worth it. Else, just
> > > flame me and feel good about your lofty perch.

>
> > > - Dominic- Hide quoted text -

>
> > > - Show quoted text -

>
> I fear that you may be missing some of my point though, it appears
> that while you have done a lot of research online and some travel,
> that you haven't really "lived" what tea is all about.
>
> How can I explain? Feelings, moods, history, nationality, religion,
> people... that is what tea is really about. Not whether your water is
> from the finest artesian well or heated to the nearest .001 degree and
> steeped for the exact millisecond which is recorded in a logbook.
>
> It also seems like you are trying to cover too broad of an area in
> your tea as well, which is causing you to falter... which would happen
> to anyone attempting to do what you are.
>
> I can brew Gyokuro properly almost every time, why? because I've taken
> my lumps and ruined a lot of expensive tea and sat and watched those
> more skilled than I, and worked at it... and this is for almost every
> different Gyokuro not just learn one and they all come easy. And even
> then year to year it can change. This isn't to brag but to make a
> point. How about going one of two ways (I normally do not offer advice
> to help someone in a business pursuit unless I'm gaining something,
> but I will here):
>
> 1. Just give a quick overview of each tea region and a little about
> it, with a brewing of one specific type in their style.
>
> 2. Cover one region only. India, China, Japan, etc.
>
> Everything would become easier, your guests would get more out of it,
> and you would too. I fear this is the same problem your book may face.
> As someone who has worked as an editor I've seen this a million and
> one times. Focus on what you know very well, distill it down to the
> core, and cover that and that only.
>
> If you are weak in Japanese culture and tea, don't cover it. Defer to
> some good texts or resources. Don't know Pu-Erh, don't try to, mention
> it and again defer to proper resources. Giving people second-hand
> knowledge with no insight of your own is useless and even damaging.
>
> What happens is someone *will* know, call you on it, and that's the
> end of your credibility and your book sales. This is your first
> experience with Usenet for sure, it is also a fairly amateur way of
> approaching a book and a demonstration so I'm guessing this is new
> territory for you too. Simplify, stick to what you know, and know
> well, and knock it out of the park. Your guests will thank you, rather
> than be confused and overwhelmed.
>
> That's the most free advice I've ever given out to anyone with a
> financial gain involved, and there is a reason I chose to do so... so
> maybe don't brush it off and actually think about it.
>
> - Dominic- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -





  #31 (permalink)   Report Post  
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Posts: 397
Default An invitation and some inf re Space Cowboy

On Jun 7, 1:12 pm, wrote:
> pgwk je napisal:
>
>
>
> > I almost didn't send this message and also thought carefully about
> > dropping out of RFDT, which would be a big loss for me - I enjoy the
> > group and am learning so much. I have decided to address the
> > underlying issue very directly: Space Cowboy. The second part of this
> > posting is a firm effort to rescue the group from him. I do not intend
> > to discuss it/him or respond to him; as I stated after his last and
> > silly attack on me, no reply is needed or merited. But, something
> > needs to be done and I hope I can help RFDT in this regard.

>
> > Message Part 1

>
> > I have an interesting and, hope, fun challenge for you, my colleagues
> > in the delightful exploration of the inexhaustible pleasure of teas. I
> > am a pygmy in the field and neither knowledgeable nor an industry
> > expert, but I do have some visibility in the business and academic
> > fields, where a few people are finding out about my interest in tea
> > and my forthcoming book. This is resulting in some intriguing new
> > contacts and opportunities. This message is about one of them, where I
> > would love your insights and opinions.

>
> > Up in New York City, just next to Fifth Avenue, where taking one's
> > wife shopping can cost about a thousand dollars a block, there is a
> > hotel with a famous name that has contacted me about putting on some
> > little showcase events around tea. I meet with the Banqueting Manager
> > next week. Here's my thinking (By the way, I don't expect to make any
> > money on this, though should he insist on stuffing hundred dollar
> > bills into my pocket, I will assuredly not resist him; I am doing this
> > because it's fun and it will help sell my book; which will earn me
> > maybe $1.20 a copy. Samuel Johnson famously said that no one but a
> > blockhead ever wrote except for money - hi, call me Blockhead.)

>
> > So, here is the challenge. You have an audience of newbies, You - I -
> > want them to leave elated and converts. What would you serve them? I
> > will have the chance to serve them any teas, with plenty of staff in
> > the black jackets and white gloves. It's a one-time opportunity so I
> > need to get it right. Again, what would YOU offer?

>
> > I've decided to keep it simple and offer just two blacks, two oolong,
> > two greens, two whites plus a couple of "theatricals."

>
> > Here's my current choices, with a few comments as to why:

>
> > Black teas:
> > 1. A Darjeeling, obviously, and one that is fragrant and full and
> > contrasts with any hint of the English Breakfast most of the people
> > will probably associate with "tea." I'm leaning to either an Ambootia
> > second flush or Poobong first flush.
> > 2. A Taiwan Lapsong because I simply love it and also because most of
> > my newbie friends are very struck by how different it is from any tea
> > they know. I converted my CPA yesterday to whole leaf tea rfom
> > Celestial Whatevers, when she came to my house to tut-tut about my
> > record-keeping through a steaming, glow in the dark Lapsang. She
> > phoned me today to say she stopped at Wegman's on her way home and
> > bought an Ingenui infuser. So, when my kids ask "Dad, what did you do
> > to help save the planet?" I can say, I rescued Susan from drinking
> > lawnmower effusions.
> > Both my choices are traditional and safe. I thought of a Guranse or
> > big Assam, instead. I want something that makes the audience forget
> > about Earl Greys and English Breakfasts. I've excluded Ceylon estate
> > teas, much as I love them, for that reason.

>
> > Oolongs:
> > 3. Iron Goddess, again obviously; safe and good.
> > 4. Golden Lily, mainly for its vibrant appearance and how it expands
> > in the infuser.
> > I didn't want anything too light, which led me reluctantly not to
> > exclude Spring Pouchong. I also wanted to avoid anything too expensive
> > - a major theme in my book is how inexpensive great teas really are --
> > so no aged oolong.
> > I love oolongs, which are the tea most unfamiliar to newbies -- 1% of
> > total US tea sales? I'm not excited by my choices. Any ideas on some
> > Wham!!!!! alternatives?

>
> > Greens:
> > 5. Gyokuro: the toughest choice of all. I screw up two out of three
> > attempts to make it and don't know how to ensure a reliable and fresh
> > supply. No Matcha, for the same reasons. I thought of Houjicha, and
> > even Genmaicha for its novelty value. Obviously, I need a Japanese
> > green in the show, especially to wean people off Korean supermarket
> > sawdust and Indonesian cement powder.
> > 6. Pi Lo Chun: I stayed away from Dragonwell only because I've found
> > that most of my newbie friends are very disappointed by it - too light
> > and too grassy. Plus, too many quality/grade problems, and the high
> > cost of Imperial Dragonwell. Pi Lo Chun seems an "easy" tea to get to
> > know.

>
> > Whites:
> > 7. White Peony: again, easy to enjoy and savor. I kept away from
> > Silver Needles and Adam's Peak because these are in my opinion teas
> > that you come to once you have explored the fuller and stronger ones.
> > 8. White Darjeeling, from Poobong. I love this stuff and it's a good
> > way to end the tasting - where we began, in Darjeeling.

>
> > Now, for theatricals. Yixing teapots (I get to take them home; I love
> > them.). Adagio Ingenui infusers to get across the point that whole
> > leaf tea is as convenient and easy to use as tea bags. I am clueless
> > about Japanese teaware but obviously the Gyokuro needs its own special
> > equipment. I'd welcome recommendations.

>
> > A flowery white and a pu-erh for the finale. I don't like most
> > flavored teas but a Numi Lavender Dream, Pearl Jasmine or the like
> > sure looks great as its little floret or teaspoon becomes a glass
> > teapot underwater forest. Then, an affordable pu-ehr - in big cake
> > form. Master of ceremonies (me) hands cake and knife to nice lady or
> > gentleman and asks her/him to cut off a slice. Nice l/g fails so out
> > comes the hammer and chisel. Smash!

>
> > So, that's the menu. In addition, I need a good speaker from Fair
> > Trade/Eco Exchange or the like to talk about the social issues of tea,
> > an expert with good photos to show about hoofing it up in the
> > mountains to get great tea, and an industry specialist to talk about
> > the future of great teas in the U.S. If you know of candidates, I'm
> > interested. Obviously, I will add to the agenda something about the
> > Yunnan earthquake and provide an opportunity for the audience to make
> > a donation; I need advice/contacts on how to do this.

>
> > So, that's the idea. If it is of interest to you, I'd love to hear
> > your own views. I will give full acknowledgement to contributors. If
> > it does turn out that I make some money out of this, I will ensure
> > that contributors/speakers get a share of it.

>
> > I hope that the group will totally change my agenda and generate a
> > more interesting list of teas.

>
> > Message Part 2

>
> > Now, one other point. Always lurking, anonymously and cowardly, with
> > no profile published even after many years on RFDT, is the paranoid
> > and very cruel Space Cowboy, whose itchy fingertips are probably ready
> > to launch yet more vitriol in response to this message. SC is in fact
> > P--- A---, a Colorado Rockies fan, lover of soccer, superbly
> > knowledgeable about tea, who has made over the years a few visits to
> > such sites as alt.sex.movies. P---, what were you thinking of -- snuff
> > films and ******* powder room kiss scenes and half-open blouse
> > cleavage!!!!???? His violence of language appears to have begun around
> > 2004, according to the two professional mental health counselors I
> > asked - legally - to look at his diatribes. I'm the founder of a
> > little agency that helps victims of domestic violence, so I know the
> > scary pattern of escalating threats leading to potential real damage;
> > my advisers think that Space Cowboy is more a danger to himself than
> > to others but one of them comments that once the threats from a
> > sociopath start - his verbal symptoms appear to be what is termed
> > secondary sociopathy - then worry. I have a personal concern here, in
> > that my web site got hijacked a year ago by a P-- type expert and I
> > had to put up with hundreds of Space Cowboy equivalent logomania
> > assaults. I have, on the advice of my website genius, taken my site
> > down for a week or so, to Cowboy proof it. So, Paul, don't even think
> > about it. Oh, and be careful on the threats. The last one, about
> > contacting my publisher to drive me out of "here", crosses the line
> > between bluster and danger. If I'd sent you my publisher's e-mail
> > address as you demanded and you'd actually followed through, you would
> > have committed a Federal crime. To quote approximately from memory one
> > of my neighbors, who works in a relevant government agency (when you
> > live 30 miles outside DC, as I do, you have a lot of helpful pals who
> > work for Fed alphabet soup names to talk to) and to whom I've shown a
> > few of your rants: "Another Master of the Universe, who thinks he is
> > the law. We see a hundred ot them, a week. They don't know what they
> > are doing till an agent turns up on their doorstep." Oh, and please do
> > read Title 17 of the U.S. Copyright Code before you tell me what I
> > can't quote and cite from RFTD archives.

>
> > After discussions with a number of members of RFDT, I've decided to
> > make public my findings and concerns because they damage our group,
> > individually and as a community. There are only 600 or so members and
> > activity is "medium." It should and could be 1,600 and "heavy." How
> > many newbies are scared off by what they see? How many really good
> > contributors withdraw from RFDT? The first Space Cowboy slash and burn
> > attack that I came across was his vicious and truly weird assault on
> > the publishers of the Art of Tea magazine, in April as I recall. I
> > note that they haven't come back. Please do, Guys, it's for me a great
> > publication, typos and all.

>
> > Anyway, back to the NYC event. I would love to hear your
> > recommendations, will make sure I do not misuse any information/ideas
> > you give me, and hope that at least a few of you will be my

>
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


This is your first post. Did you jump in here to talk about tea or add
fuel to the fire?
S

  #32 (permalink)   Report Post  
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Senior Member
 
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 198
Default An invitation and some inf re Space Cowboy

Urgh, I hate to get in the middle of someone else's
quarrel...especially when it seems to be among intellectual
juggernauts.

Although Dominic's words have a grain of wisdom in it, I suspect a lot
of presumptions were made about who pgwk is or is not. The following
is taken from Chadao, written by our dear Prof. Corax, on the summary
background of the poster we know as pgwk. I do not know Dr. Keen
personally, and so the following is only second-hand information, but
I highly doubt that it is dangerous or damaging.

To quote:

[[EDITOR'S NOTE: We are fortunate to be able to present here the full
text of a plenary address delivered last week at the 2007
International Tea Exposition in Liyang, China, by Peter Keen, Chairman
of Keen Innovations. Dr Keen works globally, as a professor, adviser
to senior management in business and government organizations, author,
executive educator, and public speaker. He has held faculty positions
at Harvard, MIT, Stanford, Duke, Fordham and Wharton in the United
States and Delft, Oxford, The London Business School, and Stockholm in
Europe. He is the author of almost 30 books, mostly in the field of
business innovation. His next book, however, Great Teas for Everyday
Pleasure, is on a subject of central interest to readers of this blog;
it is due out later this year. For more information on Dr Keen, see
peterkeen.com.]]

End quote.

  #33 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Posts: 2
Default An invitation and some inf re Space Cowboy


Shen je napisal:
> On Jun 7, 1:12 pm, wrote:
> > pgwk je napisal:
> >
> >
> >
> > > I almost didn't send this message and also thought carefully about
> > > dropping out of RFDT, which would be a big loss for me - I enjoy the
> > > group and am learning so much. I have decided to address the
> > > underlying issue very directly: Space Cowboy. The second part of this
> > > posting is a firm effort to rescue the group from him. I do not intend
> > > to discuss it/him or respond to him; as I stated after his last and
> > > silly attack on me, no reply is needed or merited. But, something
> > > needs to be done and I hope I can help RFDT in this regard.

> >
> > > Message Part 1

> >
> > > I have an interesting and, hope, fun challenge for you, my colleagues
> > > in the delightful exploration of the inexhaustible pleasure of teas. I
> > > am a pygmy in the field and neither knowledgeable nor an industry
> > > expert, but I do have some visibility in the business and academic
> > > fields, where a few people are finding out about my interest in tea
> > > and my forthcoming book. This is resulting in some intriguing new
> > > contacts and opportunities. This message is about one of them, where I
> > > would love your insights and opinions.

> >
> > > Up in New York City, just next to Fifth Avenue, where taking one's
> > > wife shopping can cost about a thousand dollars a block, there is a
> > > hotel with a famous name that has contacted me about putting on some
> > > little showcase events around tea. I meet with the Banqueting Manager
> > > next week. Here's my thinking (By the way, I don't expect to make any
> > > money on this, though should he insist on stuffing hundred dollar
> > > bills into my pocket, I will assuredly not resist him; I am doing this
> > > because it's fun and it will help sell my book; which will earn me
> > > maybe $1.20 a copy. Samuel Johnson famously said that no one but a
> > > blockhead ever wrote except for money - hi, call me Blockhead.)

> >
> > > So, here is the challenge. You have an audience of newbies, You - I -
> > > want them to leave elated and converts. What would you serve them? I
> > > will have the chance to serve them any teas, with plenty of staff in
> > > the black jackets and white gloves. It's a one-time opportunity so I
> > > need to get it right. Again, what would YOU offer?

> >
> > > I've decided to keep it simple and offer just two blacks, two oolong,
> > > two greens, two whites plus a couple of "theatricals."

> >
> > > Here's my current choices, with a few comments as to why:

> >
> > > Black teas:
> > > 1. A Darjeeling, obviously, and one that is fragrant and full and
> > > contrasts with any hint of the English Breakfast most of the people
> > > will probably associate with "tea." I'm leaning to either an Ambootia
> > > second flush or Poobong first flush.
> > > 2. A Taiwan Lapsong because I simply love it and also because most of
> > > my newbie friends are very struck by how different it is from any tea
> > > they know. I converted my CPA yesterday to whole leaf tea rfom
> > > Celestial Whatevers, when she came to my house to tut-tut about my
> > > record-keeping through a steaming, glow in the dark Lapsang. She
> > > phoned me today to say she stopped at Wegman's on her way home and
> > > bought an Ingenui infuser. So, when my kids ask "Dad, what did you do
> > > to help save the planet?" I can say, I rescued Susan from drinking
> > > lawnmower effusions.
> > > Both my choices are traditional and safe. I thought of a Guranse or
> > > big Assam, instead. I want something that makes the audience forget
> > > about Earl Greys and English Breakfasts. I've excluded Ceylon estate
> > > teas, much as I love them, for that reason.

> >
> > > Oolongs:
> > > 3. Iron Goddess, again obviously; safe and good.
> > > 4. Golden Lily, mainly for its vibrant appearance and how it expands
> > > in the infuser.
> > > I didn't want anything too light, which led me reluctantly not to
> > > exclude Spring Pouchong. I also wanted to avoid anything too expensive
> > > - a major theme in my book is how inexpensive great teas really are --
> > > so no aged oolong.
> > > I love oolongs, which are the tea most unfamiliar to newbies -- 1% of
> > > total US tea sales? I'm not excited by my choices. Any ideas on some
> > > Wham!!!!! alternatives?

> >
> > > Greens:
> > > 5. Gyokuro: the toughest choice of all. I screw up two out of three
> > > attempts to make it and don't know how to ensure a reliable and fresh
> > > supply. No Matcha, for the same reasons. I thought of Houjicha, and
> > > even Genmaicha for its novelty value. Obviously, I need a Japanese
> > > green in the show, especially to wean people off Korean supermarket
> > > sawdust and Indonesian cement powder.
> > > 6. Pi Lo Chun: I stayed away from Dragonwell only because I've found
> > > that most of my newbie friends are very disappointed by it - too light
> > > and too grassy. Plus, too many quality/grade problems, and the high
> > > cost of Imperial Dragonwell. Pi Lo Chun seems an "easy" tea to get to
> > > know.

> >
> > > Whites:
> > > 7. White Peony: again, easy to enjoy and savor. I kept away from
> > > Silver Needles and Adam's Peak because these are in my opinion teas
> > > that you come to once you have explored the fuller and stronger ones.
> > > 8. White Darjeeling, from Poobong. I love this stuff and it's a good
> > > way to end the tasting - where we began, in Darjeeling.

> >
> > > Now, for theatricals. Yixing teapots (I get to take them home; I love
> > > them.). Adagio Ingenui infusers to get across the point that whole
> > > leaf tea is as convenient and easy to use as tea bags. I am clueless
> > > about Japanese teaware but obviously the Gyokuro needs its own special
> > > equipment. I'd welcome recommendations.

> >
> > > A flowery white and a pu-erh for the finale. I don't like most
> > > flavored teas but a Numi Lavender Dream, Pearl Jasmine or the like
> > > sure looks great as its little floret or teaspoon becomes a glass
> > > teapot underwater forest. Then, an affordable pu-ehr - in big cake
> > > form. Master of ceremonies (me) hands cake and knife to nice lady or
> > > gentleman and asks her/him to cut off a slice. Nice l/g fails so out
> > > comes the hammer and chisel. Smash!

> >
> > > So, that's the menu. In addition, I need a good speaker from Fair
> > > Trade/Eco Exchange or the like to talk about the social issues of tea,
> > > an expert with good photos to show about hoofing it up in the
> > > mountains to get great tea, and an industry specialist to talk about
> > > the future of great teas in the U.S. If you know of candidates, I'm
> > > interested. Obviously, I will add to the agenda something about the
> > > Yunnan earthquake and provide an opportunity for the audience to make
> > > a donation; I need advice/contacts on how to do this.

> >
> > > So, that's the idea. If it is of interest to you, I'd love to hear
> > > your own views. I will give full acknowledgement to contributors. If
> > > it does turn out that I make some money out of this, I will ensure
> > > that contributors/speakers get a share of it.

> >
> > > I hope that the group will totally change my agenda and generate a
> > > more interesting list of teas.

> >
> > > Message Part 2

> >
> > > Now, one other point. Always lurking, anonymously and cowardly, with
> > > no profile published even after many years on RFDT, is the paranoid
> > > and very cruel Space Cowboy, whose itchy fingertips are probably ready
> > > to launch yet more vitriol in response to this message. SC is in fact
> > > P--- A---, a Colorado Rockies fan, lover of soccer, superbly
> > > knowledgeable about tea, who has made over the years a few visits to
> > > such sites as alt.sex.movies. P---, what were you thinking of -- snuff
> > > films and ******* powder room kiss scenes and half-open blouse
> > > cleavage!!!!???? His violence of language appears to have begun around
> > > 2004, according to the two professional mental health counselors I
> > > asked - legally - to look at his diatribes. I'm the founder of a
> > > little agency that helps victims of domestic violence, so I know the
> > > scary pattern of escalating threats leading to potential real damage;
> > > my advisers think that Space Cowboy is more a danger to himself than
> > > to others but one of them comments that once the threats from a
> > > sociopath start - his verbal symptoms appear to be what is termed
> > > secondary sociopathy - then worry. I have a personal concern here, in
> > > that my web site got hijacked a year ago by a P-- type expert and I
> > > had to put up with hundreds of Space Cowboy equivalent logomania
> > > assaults. I have, on the advice of my website genius, taken my site
> > > down for a week or so, to Cowboy proof it. So, Paul, don't even think
> > > about it. Oh, and be careful on the threats. The last one, about
> > > contacting my publisher to drive me out of "here", crosses the line
> > > between bluster and danger. If I'd sent you my publisher's e-mail
> > > address as you demanded and you'd actually followed through, you would
> > > have committed a Federal crime. To quote approximately from memory one
> > > of my neighbors, who works in a relevant government agency (when you
> > > live 30 miles outside DC, as I do, you have a lot of helpful pals who
> > > work for Fed alphabet soup names to talk to) and to whom I've shown a
> > > few of your rants: "Another Master of the Universe, who thinks he is
> > > the law. We see a hundred ot them, a week. They don't know what they
> > > are doing till an agent turns up on their doorstep." Oh, and please do
> > > read Title 17 of the U.S. Copyright Code before you tell me what I
> > > can't quote and cite from RFTD archives.

> >
> > > After discussions with a number of members of RFDT, I've decided to
> > > make public my findings and concerns because they damage our group,
> > > individually and as a community. There are only 600 or so members and
> > > activity is "medium." It should and could be 1,600 and "heavy." How
> > > many newbies are scared off by what they see? How many really good
> > > contributors withdraw from RFDT? The first Space Cowboy slash and burn
> > > attack that I came across was his vicious and truly weird assault on
> > > the publishers of the Art of Tea magazine, in April as I recall. I
> > > note that they haven't come back. Please do, Guys, it's for me a great
> > > publication, typos and all.

> >
> > > Anyway, back to the NYC event. I would love to hear your
> > > recommendations, will make sure I do not misuse any information/ideas
> > > you give me, and hope that at least a few of you will be my

> >
> > ...
> >
> > read more »- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -

>
> This is your first post. Did you jump in here to talk about tea or add
> fuel to the fire?
> S



Tea.

BTW - You're asking ME if I'm here to to talk about tea or what? This
particular thread is all except tea-centric!

Goran

  #34 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.drink.tea
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 397
Default An invitation and some inf re Space Cowboy

On Jun 7, 3:41 pm, Phyll > wrote:
> Urgh, I hate to get in the middle of someone else's
> quarrel...especially when it seems to be among intellectual
> juggernauts.
>
> Although Dominic's words have a grain of wisdom in it, I suspect a lot
> of presumptions were made about who pgwk is or is not. The following
> is taken from Chadao, written by our dear Prof. Corax, on the summary
> background of the poster we know as pgwk. I do not know Dr. Keen
> personally, and so the following is only second-hand information, but
> I highly doubt that it is dangerous or damaging.
>
> To quote:
>
> [[EDITOR'S NOTE: We are fortunate to be able to present here the full
> text of a plenary address delivered last week at the 2007
> International Tea Exposition in Liyang, China, by Peter Keen, Chairman
> of Keen Innovations. Dr Keen works globally, as a professor, adviser
> to senior management in business and government organizations, author,
> executive educator, and public speaker. He has held faculty positions
> at Harvard, MIT, Stanford, Duke, Fordham and Wharton in the United
> States and Delft, Oxford, The London Business School, and Stockholm in
> Europe. He is the author of almost 30 books, mostly in the field of
> business innovation. His next book, however, Great Teas for Everyday
> Pleasure, is on a subject of central interest to readers of this blog;
> it is due out later this year. For more information on Dr Keen, see
> peterkeen.com.]]
>
> End quote.


Thank you, Phyll.

  #35 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Posts: 161
Default An invitation and some inf re Space Cowboy

What follows is probably redundant; might take me a while to read all
the posted responses.

> Black teas:
> 1. A Darjeeling
> 2. A Taiwan Lapsong


To me, lapsang souchong is mostly about the smoke, and goes along with
lychee and osmanthus-flavored types: good, but not tea. It's really
moving in another dimension (added flavoring) to do this. If I had
three, I'd do a Keemun mao feng, a new/old style high-ferment, aromatic
Darjeeling (I've recommended one purveyor here recently) and a Yunnan
gold. (Two, I'd drop the Keemun.) Black tea that isn't black - a nice
touch, and introduces the tippiness proposition for "Far Too Good For
Ordinary People" and that whole system, as well as the 2L+B for "fine"
tea vs. stems & seeds for wild-arbor Puerh.

In that vein, since good green Puerh is relatively inaccessible as to
price, technique and taste, what about merging the Black and Puerh into
Black/Red? The three above would go well with a decent cooked looseleaf
Puerh.

> Oolongs:
> 3. Iron Goddess


Personally, I would (and often do in tastings) drop the old TGY.
Instead, as others have said, a really peachy dan cong with long,
perfect leaves, and a fisted Anxi oolong of high roast and strong fragrance.

> Greens:


I agree with those who say that a less-fragile sencha might be safer.

> Whites:
> 7. White Peony: again, easy to enjoy and savor. I kept away from
> Silver Needles ...... and it's a good
> way to end the tasting - where we began, in Darjeeling.


I try to move from lighter to heavier, and from fragrance-intensive to
taste/mouthfeel-intensive teas. For me, that usually means
white-green-oolong-black/red. So you could preserve the bookends. But
I'd go with the silver needles, followed by the white peony. A tea with
no color, delicate but very focused aroma and mild taste is a great way,
in my experience, to bring the mind into resonance with tasting. If you
want to fill the white slot with a Puerh silver needles, tea Gallery's
2004 special cake (still available a couple of months back when I bought
another) is the best I've ever tasted, and would go well before a White
Peony.

> Anyway, back to the NYC event. ... hope that at least a few of you will be my guest at it.


Will you be posting dates? Some of us live away from NYC, but get there
occasionally.

How will you handle snacks? Aside from the palate-clearing and
something-to-play-with aspects, keeping blood sugar stable can be
important in a serious tasting.

Hope it goes well-

DM


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Default An invitation and some inf re Space Cowboy

You guys are so helpful..........

Re the snacks..... No cucumber sandwiches!!!! What little nibbles help
cleanse the palate? I thought of very light French cheeses and
cornichons. A Bucheron? Caprice des Dieux? I get your point which is
to engage their tastebuds. By the way, we are now talking about 350
people in the Ballroom --scares me a little since I ain't the world's
greatest organizer, but the hotel seems relaxed.

It's looking like September -- the hotel wants to mobilize their
marketing and media coverage and that takes time.

I cannot express enough my admiration and appreciation for the
response of people like you to my messages.

peter


On Jun 7, 10:31 pm, DogMa > wrote:
> What follows is probably redundant; might take me a while to read all
> the posted responses.
>
> > Black teas:
> > 1. A Darjeeling
> > 2. A Taiwan Lapsong

>
> To me, lapsang souchong is mostly about the smoke, and goes along with
> lychee and osmanthus-flavored types: good, but not tea. It's really
> moving in another dimension (added flavoring) to do this. If I had
> three, I'd do a Keemun mao feng, a new/old style high-ferment, aromatic
> Darjeeling (I've recommended one purveyor here recently) and a Yunnan
> gold. (Two, I'd drop the Keemun.) Black tea that isn't black - a nice
> touch, and introduces the tippiness proposition for "Far Too Good For
> Ordinary People" and that whole system, as well as the 2L+B for "fine"
> tea vs. stems & seeds for wild-arbor Puerh.
>
> In that vein, since good green Puerh is relatively inaccessible as to
> price, technique and taste, what about merging the Black and Puerh into
> Black/Red? The three above would go well with a decent cooked looseleaf
> Puerh.
>
> > Oolongs:
> > 3. Iron Goddess

>
> Personally, I would (and often do in tastings) drop the old TGY.
> Instead, as others have said, a really peachy dan cong with long,
> perfect leaves, and a fisted Anxi oolong of high roast and strong fragrance.
>
> > Greens:

>
> I agree with those who say that a less-fragile sencha might be safer.
>
> > Whites:
> > 7. White Peony: again, easy to enjoy and savor. I kept away from
> > Silver Needles ...... and it's a good
> > way to end the tasting - where we began, in Darjeeling.

>
> I try to move from lighter to heavier, and from fragrance-intensive to
> taste/mouthfeel-intensive teas. For me, that usually means
> white-green-oolong-black/red. So you could preserve the bookends. But
> I'd go with the silver needles, followed by the white peony. A tea with
> no color, delicate but very focused aroma and mild taste is a great way,
> in my experience, to bring the mind into resonance with tasting. If you
> want to fill the white slot with a Puerh silver needles, tea Gallery's
> 2004 special cake (still available a couple of months back when I bought
> another) is the best I've ever tasted, and would go well before a White
> Peony.
>
> > Anyway, back to the NYC event. ... hope that at least a few of you will be my guest at it.

>
> Will you be posting dates? Some of us live away from NYC, but get there
> occasionally.
>
> How will you handle snacks? Aside from the palate-clearing and
> something-to-play-with aspects, keeping blood sugar stable can be
> important in a serious tasting.
>
> Hope it goes well-
>
> DM



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Default An invitation and some inf re Space Cowboy

On Jun 7, 8:05 pm, pgwk > wrote:
> You guys are so helpful..........
>
> Re the snacks..... No cucumber sandwiches!!!! What little nibbles help
> cleanse the palate? I thought of very light French cheeses and
> cornichons. A Bucheron? Caprice des Dieux? I get your point which is
> to engage their tastebuds. By the way, we are now talking about 350
> people in the Ballroom --scares me a little since I ain't the world's
> greatest organizer, but the hotel seems relaxed.
>
> It's looking like September -- the hotel wants to mobilize their
> marketing and media coverage and that takes time.
>
> I cannot express enough my admiration and appreciation for the
> response of people like you to my messages.
>
> peter
>
> On Jun 7, 10:31 pm, DogMa > wrote:
>
>
>
> > What follows is probably redundant; might take me a while to read all
> > the posted responses.

>
> > > Black teas:
> > > 1. A Darjeeling
> > > 2. A Taiwan Lapsong

>
> > To me, lapsang souchong is mostly about the smoke, and goes along with
> > lychee and osmanthus-flavored types: good, but not tea. It's really
> > moving in another dimension (added flavoring) to do this. If I had
> > three, I'd do a Keemun mao feng, a new/old style high-ferment, aromatic
> > Darjeeling (I've recommended one purveyor here recently) and a Yunnan
> > gold. (Two, I'd drop the Keemun.) Black tea that isn't black - a nice
> > touch, and introduces the tippiness proposition for "Far Too Good For
> > Ordinary People" and that whole system, as well as the 2L+B for "fine"
> > tea vs. stems & seeds for wild-arbor Puerh.

>
> > In that vein, since good green Puerh is relatively inaccessible as to
> > price, technique and taste, what about merging the Black and Puerh into
> > Black/Red? The three above would go well with a decent cooked looseleaf
> > Puerh.

>
> > > Oolongs:
> > > 3. Iron Goddess

>
> > Personally, I would (and often do in tastings) drop the old TGY.
> > Instead, as others have said, a really peachy dan cong with long,
> > perfect leaves, and a fisted Anxi oolong of high roast and strong fragrance.

>
> > > Greens:

>
> > I agree with those who say that a less-fragile sencha might be safer.

>
> > > Whites:
> > > 7. White Peony: again, easy to enjoy and savor. I kept away from
> > > Silver Needles ...... and it's a good
> > > way to end the tasting - where we began, in Darjeeling.

>
> > I try to move from lighter to heavier, and from fragrance-intensive to
> > taste/mouthfeel-intensive teas. For me, that usually means
> > white-green-oolong-black/red. So you could preserve the bookends. But
> > I'd go with the silver needles, followed by the white peony. A tea with
> > no color, delicate but very focused aroma and mild taste is a great way,
> > in my experience, to bring the mind into resonance with tasting. If you
> > want to fill the white slot with a Puerh silver needles, tea Gallery's
> > 2004 special cake (still available a couple of months back when I bought
> > another) is the best I've ever tasted, and would go well before a White
> > Peony.

>
> > > Anyway, back to the NYC event. ... hope that at least a few of you will be my guest at it.

>
> > Will you be posting dates? Some of us live away from NYC, but get there
> > occasionally.

>
> > How will you handle snacks? Aside from the palate-clearing and
> > something-to-play-with aspects, keeping blood sugar stable can be
> > important in a serious tasting.

>
> > Hope it goes well-

>
> > DM- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -


Cheese and tea - yucky
Try simple wheat meal crackers - slightly sweet with not too spicy or
fruity flavours. Spicy, or fruity disguise the flavour of the teas and
cheese coats the taste buds (especially in women) and distorts the
taste of the tea.
We just did a tasting with Roy Fong of current greens and Grace served
two buns - one baked sweet/coconutty and a very mild, steamed
barbecued pork bun. Personally, I like not-very-sweet "red crystal"
bean steamed buns with tea.
Shen

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Default An invitation and some inf re Space Cowboy

pgwk wrote:
.... By the way, we are now talking about 350
> people in the Ballroom --scares me a little since I ain't the world's
> greatest organizer, but the hotel seems relaxed.


There are some very capable and personable tea folks in and around NYC,
including several on this very list. Perhaps you or the venue would like
to recruit a dozen or so roving assistants, who could keep an eye on the
mob and make small suggestions? People would feel more involved and
taken care of, as in seminar vs. lecture. And for those helpers
(probably volunteers) who are in the business, it mightn't be amiss for
them to have cards available for those who connect with them.

-DM
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Default An invitation and some inf re Space Cowboy

On Jun 7, 6:11 pm, pgwk > wrote:
> On Jun 7, 3:49 pm, "Dominic T." > wrote:> On Jun 7, 12:25 pm, pgwk > wrote:
>
> Oh dear. I guess I should reply to this message, but quickly and
> simply. Yes, it's a defeat, definitely, but to pursue the metaphor
> it's a defeat in a war not worth fighting.


I believe you have missed the point of almost everything I was trying
to say. Space Cowboy is not a friend of mine, nor was I defending him
in any way... I simply addressed the fact that both of you are
similarly out of balance here. And I wasn't speaking about withdrawing
from Space Cowboy was defeat, but from myself or others who may want
to open up discussion instead of firing and ducking for cover.

I hide behind nothing, and in fact use my full name quite clearly in
my profile... if that's hiding then I guess I'm the worst ever.

I do know exactly who you are and your background, and I also can
read. Your question posed to this group was one of someone who is
unsure of a number of key areas of tea and showed a lack of personal
passion being put into this endeavor if you can't come up with teas
and talking points to meet this task. If I had to give a talk today,
and I have on tea in numerous settings, I could come up with a list,
talking points, and be 100% sure of my skill in brewing them
properly.

Being intelligent, and a businessman, do nothing and mean nothing in
the world of tea except for your ability to maybe make a buck or two
(or many)from your endeavor. That doesn't make it right or proper.

I really have no dog in this fight, I was fully aware of who you were
and also knew you'd do what you wanted anyhow because you are too far
above listening and critically looking at yourself due to the swelling
of your own head. I also knew that my words would be wasted and read
and spun in your own head, just as Space Cowboy. So in the end, best
of luck, have at it... and with your wealth of knowledge, money, and
resources surely you can manage this on your own. Unless internet
reading, money and resources aren't all that matter here. I suspect
you'll find out.

And lastly, your ignorance of Usenet, Japanese tea, Pu-erh, Rock
Oolongs, and a few other areas were all stated by none other than
yourself... so how could I have possibly made the mistake of believing
your own words?

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