I have some bricks of aged 1990 sheng puerh from Taiwan that I flaked
about six months ago and put in yixing ceramic containers to store.
One of the teas (a Menghai region large-leaf puerh) has taken on a
fishy smell, which goes away if I leave the tea out overnight before I
drink it.

My suspicion is that this is because of overactive microorganisms in
an environment without enough oxygen. However these are non-glazed
ceramic containers, which I thought would be appropriate for sheng
puerh tea because they breathe. I know that cooked puerh is best
stored in paper bags; now I'm wondering if that would be more
appropriate for flaked sheng as well--at least an amount for immediate
consumption.

I'm curious, what are your experiences with storing flaked sheng
puerh? Do you just keep it in a brick and flake off whatever you
need? If you flake it, what kind of containers do you use?

Looking forward to your responses.

Danica

On May 18, 10:04 pm, Danica > wrote:
> I have some bricks of aged 1990 sheng puerh from Taiwan that I flaked
> about six months ago and put in yixing ceramic containers to store.
> One of the teas (a Menghai region large-leaf puerh) has taken on a
> fishy smell, which goes away if I leave the tea out overnight before I
> drink it.
>
> My suspicion is that this is because of overactive microorganisms in
> an environment without enough oxygen. However these are non-glazed
> ceramic containers, which I thought would be appropriate for sheng
> puerh tea because they breathe. I know that cooked puerh is best
> stored in paper bags; now I'm wondering if that would be more
> appropriate for flaked sheng as well--at least an amount for immediate
> consumption.
>
> I'm curious, what are your experiences with storing flaked sheng
> puerh? Do you just keep it in a brick and flake off whatever you
> need? If you flake it, what kind of containers do you use?
>
> Looking forward to your responses.
>
> Danica

Imperial Tea Court (in the old San Francisco tearoom), stores their
tasting beengs in a big ole yixing jar. We do get a great deal more
humidity here than you do in LA. I keep my flaked sheng in brown bags,
as well. I've always presumed that brown bags "breathe", as well.
Just thinking: is it possible that the lack of humidity in Southern
California is the culprit? Do you have a humidifier running in your
storage area? Perhaps, the dryness leeches a "fishy"
flavour..............
Shen

On May 18, 10:04 pm, Danica > wrote:
> I have some bricks of aged 1990 sheng puerh from Taiwan that I flaked
> about six months ago and put in yixing ceramic containers to store.
> One of the teas (a Menghai region large-leaf puerh) has taken on a
> fishy smell, which goes away if I leave the tea out overnight before I
> drink it.
>
> My suspicion is that this is because of overactive microorganisms in
> an environment without enough oxygen. However these are non-glazed
> ceramic containers, which I thought would be appropriate for sheng
> puerh tea because they breathe. I know that cooked puerh is best
> stored in paper bags; now I'm wondering if that would be more
> appropriate for flaked sheng as well--at least an amount for immediate
> consumption.
>
> I'm curious, what are your experiences with storing flaked sheng
> puerh? Do you just keep it in a brick and flake off whatever you
> need? If you flake it, what kind of containers do you use?
>
> Looking forward to your responses.
>
> Danica

Hi Danica, does your 1990's sheng have any white dusting that could
indicate mold or fungi from a previous humid storage condition? As
far as I know, certain mold, fungi and bacteria release a fishy
smell. I'm merely guessing, but it is possible that an enclosed
environment accentuates this aroma more *if* they are present. And
that letting the tea "breathe" before consumption -- which is
practiced by some teaists -- reduces this aroma. My worthless 2 cents.

On May 24, 11:28 am, Phyll > wrote:
> On May 18, 10:04 pm, Danica > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I have some bricks of aged 1990 sheng puerh from Taiwan that I flaked
> > about six months ago and put in yixing ceramic containers to store.
> > One of the teas (a Menghai region large-leaf puerh) has taken on a
> > fishy smell, which goes away if I leave the tea out overnight before I
> > drink it.
>
> > My suspicion is that this is because of overactive microorganisms in
> > an environment without enough oxygen. However these are non-glazed
> > ceramic containers, which I thought would be appropriate for sheng
> > puerh tea because they breathe. I know that cooked puerh is best
> > stored in paper bags; now I'm wondering if that would be more
> > appropriate for flaked sheng as well--at least an amount for immediate
> > consumption.
>
> > I'm curious, what are your experiences with storing flaked sheng
> > puerh? Do you just keep it in a brick and flake off whatever you
> > need? If you flake it, what kind of containers do you use?
>
> > Looking forward to your responses.
>
> > Danica
>
> Hi Danica, does your 1990's sheng have any white dusting that could
> indicate mold or fungi from a previous humid storage condition? As
> far as I know, certain mold, fungi and bacteria release a fishy
> smell. I'm merely guessing, but it is possible that an enclosed
> environment accentuates this aroma more *if* they are present. And
> that letting the tea "breathe" before consumption -- which is
> practiced by some teaists -- reduces this aroma. My worthless 2 cents.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

It's usually temperature and humidity that affect tea bacteria growth.
There may be a need to keep it in a cooler place. Airborne yeast can
also really affect tea and can cause a "fishy" smell; but, that
usually needs moisture to grow. I have an older sheng that has some
grey-ish fine fluff on the longer leaves; but, I've actually found
this tasty.
Shen

No mold spots, just that fishy flavor which goes away if I leave it
out overnight. You can taste some next time we get together!

I actually find that leaving sheng morsels exposed to air sometimes
improves their flavor.

On May 24, 11:28 am, Phyll > wrote:
> On May 18, 10:04 pm, Danica > wrote:
>
>
>
> > I have some bricks of aged 1990 sheng puerh from Taiwan that I flaked
> > about six months ago and put in yixing ceramic containers to store.
> > One of the teas (a Menghai region large-leaf puerh) has taken on a
> > fishy smell, which goes away if I leave the tea out overnight before I
> > drink it.
>
> > My suspicion is that this is because of overactive microorganisms in
> > an environment without enough oxygen. However these are non-glazed
> > ceramic containers, which I thought would be appropriate for sheng
> > puerh tea because they breathe. I know that cooked puerh is best
> > stored in paper bags; now I'm wondering if that would be more
> > appropriate for flaked sheng as well--at least an amount for immediate
> > consumption.
>
> > I'm curious, what are your experiences with storing flaked sheng
> > puerh? Do you just keep it in a brick and flake off whatever you
> > need? If you flake it, what kind of containers do you use?
>
> > Looking forward to your responses.
>
> > Danica
>
> Hi Danica, does your 1990's sheng have any white dusting that could
> indicate mold or fungi from a previous humid storage condition? As
> far as I know, certain mold, fungi and bacteria release a fishy
> smell. I'm merely guessing, but it is possible that an enclosed
> environment accentuates this aroma more *if* they are present. And
> that letting the tea "breathe" before consumption -- which is
> practiced by some teaists -- reduces this aroma. My worthless 2 cents.

I've been living with puer for nearly 5 years and I've never observed
any obvious microbial activity. They will air out(months) and change
surface color(years). My climate is so dry it will split wood. The
only description of surface activity I see is in wet humid climates.
I think you will see this for any exposed organics from spores in the
air. Some call that decay. The puer activity supposedly happens over
years, not overnight. If your puer acts like a Chia Pet it has been
doctored or mistreated along the way.

Jim

PS I've looked at Chinese description of the surface bacteria. If
anything it is antibacterial in nature. It has been my contention
that puer fermentation is essentially preservation over time not
change. Yum that tasted good because 30 years ago it tasted good. I
also have 30 year old oxidize teas that haven't changed much in taste
either.

Shen wrote:
> On May 24, 11:28 am, Phyll > wrote:
> > On May 18, 10:04 pm, Danica > wrote:
> > > I have some bricks of aged 1990 sheng puerh from Taiwan that I flaked
> > > about six months ago and put in yixing ceramic containers to store.
> > > One of the teas (a Menghai region large-leaf puerh) has taken on a
> > > fishy smell, which goes away if I leave the tea out overnight before I
> > > drink it.
> >
> > > My suspicion is that this is because of overactive microorganisms in
> > > an environment without enough oxygen. However these are non-glazed
> > > ceramic containers, which I thought would be appropriate for sheng
> > > puerh tea because they breathe. I know that cooked puerh is best
> > > stored in paper bags; now I'm wondering if that would be more
> > > appropriate for flaked sheng as well--at least an amount for immediate
> > > consumption.
> >
> > > I'm curious, what are your experiences with storing flaked sheng
> > > puerh? Do you just keep it in a brick and flake off whatever you
> > > need? If you flake it, what kind of containers do you use?
> >
> > > Looking forward to your responses.
> >
> > > Danica
> >
> > Hi Danica, does your 1990's sheng have any white dusting that could
> > indicate mold or fungi from a previous humid storage condition? As
> > far as I know, certain mold, fungi and bacteria release a fishy
> > smell. I'm merely guessing, but it is possible that an enclosed
> > environment accentuates this aroma more *if* they are present. And
> > that letting the tea "breathe" before consumption -- which is
> > practiced by some teaists -- reduces this aroma. My worthless 2 cents.
>
> It's usually temperature and humidity that affect tea bacteria growth.
> There may be a need to keep it in a cooler place. Airborne yeast can
> also really affect tea and can cause a "fishy" smell; but, that
> usually needs moisture to grow. I have an older sheng that has some
> grey-ish fine fluff on the longer leaves; but, I've actually found
> this tasty.
> Shen

> It has been my contention
> that puer fermentation is essentially preservation over time not
> change. Yum that tasted good because 30 years ago it tasted good. I
> also have 30 year old oxidize teas that haven't changed much in taste
> either.

This has not been my experience. In my experience many (but not all)
sheng puerhs will indeed evolve noticeably over time, but this is only
marginally true for shu. Whether this evolution yields good or bad
results is a culmination of many factors, the three biggest being the
quality of maocha used, the skill in preparing the maocha and the
subsequent compression, and perhaps most of all the care in which it
was stored. If all three of these are hit just right a remarkable
evolution will take place in the tea, hit any one or more wrong and
you can wind up with old swill. Case in point are those 25 year old
PLA bricks floating around for $35, mere aged floor sweepings.

I have to admit though that I am seriously questioning the value of
these old puerhs, even the great ones. I find myself asking "is *any*
tea really worth $5+ per gram"? I am only a working stiff, I do not
have a trust fund or any other such source of endless income. To spend
$50-$100 on a single pot of tea is rather decadent for me, perhaps
once a year or so with friends but still..........

That is why I am aging about 200kg of puerh myself, then hopefully
when I am an old man I will have good tea to drink that only cost a
few $ per bing, plus some square footage of storage. I sure am glad
that I bought most of it about 5 years ago before the recent
puerh(gold) rush. I keep hearing rumors of a stock market crash being
inevitable in China, maybe that will slow things down a bit.

Mike
http://www.pu-erh.net

On May 25, 10:02 am, Mike Petro > wrote:
> > It has been my contention
> > that puer fermentation is essentially preservation over time not
> > change. Yum that tasted good because 30 years ago it tasted good. I
> > also have 30 year old oxidize teas that haven't changed much in taste
> > either.
>
> This has not been my experience. In my experience many (but not all)
> sheng puerhs will indeed evolve noticeably over time, but this is only
> marginally true for shu. Whether this evolution yields good or bad
> results is a culmination of many factors, the three biggest being the
> quality of maocha used, the skill in preparing the maocha and the
> subsequent compression, and perhaps most of all the care in which it
> was stored. If all three of these are hit just right a remarkable
> evolution will take place in the tea, hit any one or more wrong and
> you can wind up with old swill. Case in point are those 25 year old
> PLA bricks floating around for $35, mere aged floor sweepings.
>
> I have to admit though that I am seriously questioning the value of
> these old puerhs, even the great ones. I find myself asking "is *any*
> tea really worth $5+ per gram"? I am only a working stiff, I do not
> have a trust fund or any other such source of endless income. To spend
> $50-$100 on a single pot of tea is rather decadent for me, perhaps
> once a year or so with friends but still..........
>
> That is why I am aging about 200kg of puerh myself, then hopefully
> when I am an old man I will have good tea to drink that only cost a
> few $ per bing, plus some square footage of storage. I sure am glad
> that I bought most of it about 5 years ago before the recent
> puerh(gold) rush. I keep hearing rumors of a stock market crash being
> inevitable in China, maybe that will slow things down a bit.
>
> Mikehttp://www.pu-erh.net

I'm on the same plan - age it now so I'll have something to enjoy when
I'm retired.

Mike, what are your thoughts about humidity? Do you think that those
of us who live in drier climates should be humidifying? I remember
seeing something on your website to the effect that any climate that
is ok for people is ok for pu'er.

On May 25, 10:56 am, Alex > wrote:

> Mike, what are your thoughts about humidity? Do you think that those
> of us who live in drier climates should be humidifying? I remember
> seeing something on your website to the effect that any climate that
> is ok for people is ok for pu'er.

Yes, however there is a lot "collective wisdom" that says that
humidity around 60% or so is good, alternating humidity is theorized
to be even better. High humidity (not wet) for a few months, then dry
for a few months etc. If I lived in the desert I would probably add a
humidifier to the storage room once in a while. However, when I *did*
live in the desert we used evaporative coolers instead of AC, they
actually add some humidity as well as cool, but I wasn't into puerh
back then.

Mike
http://www.pu-erh.net

On May 25, 8:34 am, Mike Petro > wrote:
> On May 25, 10:56 am, Alex > wrote:
>
> > Mike, what are your thoughts about humidity? Do you think that those
> > of us who live in drier climates should be humidifying? I remember
> > seeing something on your website to the effect that any climate that
> > is ok for people is ok for pu'er.
>
> Yes, however there is a lot "collective wisdom" that says that
> humidity around 60% or so is good, alternating humidity is theorized
> to be even better. High humidity (not wet) for a few months, then dry
> for a few months etc. If I lived in the desert I would probably add a
> humidifier to the storage room once in a while. However, when I *did*
> live in the desert we used evaporative coolers instead of AC, they
> actually add some humidity as well as cool, but I wasn't into puerh
> back then.
>
> Mikehttp://www.pu-erh.net

Wow! That sounds like we are nearly perfect here in the Bay Area. I
had been using a humidifier since it's been rather dry this year -
normally we have a decent rainy season. So, generally, we naturally
alternate humidity.
Shen

> I have to admit though that I am seriously questioning the value of these
> old puerhs, even the great ones. I find myself asking "is *any* tea
> really worth $5+ per gram"? I am only a working stiff, I do not have a
> trust fund or any other such source of endless income. To spend $50-$100
> on a single pot of tea is rather decadent for me, perhaps once a year or
> so with friends but still..........

I'm *so* glad you added that last line.
See ya soon.
Michael

On Sat, 26 May 2007 21:48:38 GMT, Michael Plant >
wrote:

>
>> I have to admit though that I am seriously questioning the value of these
>> old puerhs, even the great ones. I find myself asking "is *any* tea
>> really worth $5+ per gram"? I am only a working stiff, I do not have a
>> trust fund or any other such source of endless income. To spend $50-$100
>> on a single pot of tea is rather decadent for me, perhaps once a year or
>> so with friends but still..........
>
>I'm *so* glad you added that last line.
>See ya soon.
>Michael

Soon indeed.....
___________
Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net