Recently, there has been an outcry in the media about tea factories
adding various chemicals to nearly every type of food that one can
consume here in China. It's especially hit headlines over in HK, where
they actually take this very seriously. Vegetables, meats, fish,
fruit, and various teas have been called into question about whether it
causes more harm than good to consume.

The most notable accounts of tea being tampered with comes from the
Fujian province; the home of various WuYi Mountain teas and the famous
Tie Guan Yin. Here in Dongguan, the locals have basically turned their
backs on TieGuanYin completely and have switched to Pu'er. Why? As
quoted to me by a merchant friend of mine, [translated] "Most TGY that
people drink [here] has very little REAL TGY flavor because of how much
chemicals are added to make it more valuable." Pu'er tea has also been
in the news in HK because of how dirty the process is to produce the
actual tea. The mostly were talking about Shu Pu which is fine by me
because I only drink big-leaf Sheng now from a private source.

Last night after a lengthy, 3 hour session of tea drinking, I brought
out some decent grade Nong Xiang High Mountain (NXHM) for my Taiwanese
friend to try. He is over 50, and most older people from Taiwan prefer
the strong, earthy sweetness and excellent "hui gan" (residual,
recurring flavor) that the heavily roasted tea can produce. After I
told him what we were going to drink, he turned the tea down flat
citing that fully roasted teas are bad for your health because they use
charcoal in the roasting process. He then also said that nearly ALL
Nong Xiang teas were subjected to charcoal roasting; he especially is
afraid to drink any Dan Cong teas from Guangdong.

This whole thing has saddened me quite a bit. Perhaps these years in
China drinking good teas has been more harmful to my health then
beneficial. The usual criticism against my argument is "oh, well I
know where I get MY teas from; it just must be your low quality teas
that are bad" but to be honest, all of my tea comes from before market
sources and close friends in the industry. I drink teas that most
Chinese don't even get to see in their lifetimes.

The only teas that are without tampering, I have found, are the green
teas that you can find in the Chinese countryside or from factories
that are not famous. Even the farmers in Hangzhou have been known to
paint their teas if the colors are not up to snuff.

Anyway, has anyone heard things like this before? I guess it's not
that easy to get this information unless you have at least a basic
level of Chinese/Cantonese because I've only seen this in
Chinese-medium sources. They wouldn't want this information to escape
to other countries, I suppose.

I do remember reading in an older medical journal that it is common to
add Methyl Salicylate as a flavour enhancer in Ceylon and Sri Lanka.
This is generally a natural chemical from Uva; however, when there is a
shortage, Sri Lanka has been known to add a manuafctured Methyl
Salicylate and other tea flavours without it being required to label
them as such.
There is a great deal of infomation available on the web
chemical/pesticide residues in very high levels in West Lake Green
teas.
Any other information you can garner is gratefully appreciated.
Shen
Mydnight wrote:
> Recently, there has been an outcry in the media about tea factories
> adding various chemicals to nearly every type of food that one can
> consume here in China. It's especially hit headlines over in HK, where
> they actually take this very seriously. Vegetables, meats, fish,
> fruit, and various teas have been called into question about whether it
> causes more harm than good to consume.
>
> The most notable accounts of tea being tampered with comes from the
> Fujian province; the home of various WuYi Mountain teas and the famous
> Tie Guan Yin. Here in Dongguan, the locals have basically turned their
> backs on TieGuanYin completely and have switched to Pu'er. Why? As
> quoted to me by a merchant friend of mine, [translated] "Most TGY that
> people drink [here] has very little REAL TGY flavor because of how much
> chemicals are added to make it more valuable." Pu'er tea has also been
> in the news in HK because of how dirty the process is to produce the
> actual tea. The mostly were talking about Shu Pu which is fine by me
> because I only drink big-leaf Sheng now from a private source.
>
> Last night after a lengthy, 3 hour session of tea drinking, I brought
> out some decent grade Nong Xiang High Mountain (NXHM) for my Taiwanese
> friend to try. He is over 50, and most older people from Taiwan prefer
> the strong, earthy sweetness and excellent "hui gan" (residual,
> recurring flavor) that the heavily roasted tea can produce. After I
> told him what we were going to drink, he turned the tea down flat
> citing that fully roasted teas are bad for your health because they use
> charcoal in the roasting process. He then also said that nearly ALL
> Nong Xiang teas were subjected to charcoal roasting; he especially is
> afraid to drink any Dan Cong teas from Guangdong.
>
> This whole thing has saddened me quite a bit. Perhaps these years in
> China drinking good teas has been more harmful to my health then
> beneficial. The usual criticism against my argument is "oh, well I
> know where I get MY teas from; it just must be your low quality teas
> that are bad" but to be honest, all of my tea comes from before market
> sources and close friends in the industry. I drink teas that most
> Chinese don't even get to see in their lifetimes.
>
> The only teas that are without tampering, I have found, are the green
> teas that you can find in the Chinese countryside or from factories
> that are not famous. Even the farmers in Hangzhou have been known to
> paint their teas if the colors are not up to snuff.
>
> Anyway, has anyone heard things like this before? I guess it's not
> that easy to get this information unless you have at least a basic
> level of Chinese/Cantonese because I've only seen this in
> Chinese-medium sources. They wouldn't want this information to escape
> to other countries, I suppose.

How is roasting with charcoal harmful for you? The charcoal is not in
direct contact with the tea leaves, unlike BBQ-ing meat. No carbon
gets stuck on the leaves, unlike blackened meat, which is supposed to
be unhealthy (black carbon being a carcinogen). Besides, aren't most
nong xiang teas get roasted in electric roaster nowadays?


Shen wrote:
> I do remember reading in an older medical journal that it is common to
> add Methyl Salicylate as a flavour enhancer in Ceylon and Sri Lanka.
> This is generally a natural chemical from Uva; however, when there is a
> shortage, Sri Lanka has been known to add a manuafctured Methyl
> Salicylate and other tea flavours without it being required to label
> them as such.
> There is a great deal of infomation available on the web
> chemical/pesticide residues in very high levels in West Lake Green
> teas.
> Any other information you can garner is gratefully appreciated.
> Shen
> Mydnight wrote:
> > Recently, there has been an outcry in the media about tea factories
> > adding various chemicals to nearly every type of food that one can
> > consume here in China. It's especially hit headlines over in HK, where
> > they actually take this very seriously. Vegetables, meats, fish,
> > fruit, and various teas have been called into question about whether it
> > causes more harm than good to consume.
> >
> > The most notable accounts of tea being tampered with comes from the
> > Fujian province; the home of various WuYi Mountain teas and the famous
> > Tie Guan Yin. Here in Dongguan, the locals have basically turned their
> > backs on TieGuanYin completely and have switched to Pu'er. Why? As
> > quoted to me by a merchant friend of mine, [translated] "Most TGY that
> > people drink [here] has very little REAL TGY flavor because of how much
> > chemicals are added to make it more valuable." Pu'er tea has also been
> > in the news in HK because of how dirty the process is to produce the
> > actual tea. The mostly were talking about Shu Pu which is fine by me
> > because I only drink big-leaf Sheng now from a private source.
> >
> > Last night after a lengthy, 3 hour session of tea drinking, I brought
> > out some decent grade Nong Xiang High Mountain (NXHM) for my Taiwanese
> > friend to try. He is over 50, and most older people from Taiwan prefer
> > the strong, earthy sweetness and excellent "hui gan" (residual,
> > recurring flavor) that the heavily roasted tea can produce. After I
> > told him what we were going to drink, he turned the tea down flat
> > citing that fully roasted teas are bad for your health because they use
> > charcoal in the roasting process. He then also said that nearly ALL
> > Nong Xiang teas were subjected to charcoal roasting; he especially is
> > afraid to drink any Dan Cong teas from Guangdong.
> >
> > This whole thing has saddened me quite a bit. Perhaps these years in
> > China drinking good teas has been more harmful to my health then
> > beneficial. The usual criticism against my argument is "oh, well I
> > know where I get MY teas from; it just must be your low quality teas
> > that are bad" but to be honest, all of my tea comes from before market
> > sources and close friends in the industry. I drink teas that most
> > Chinese don't even get to see in their lifetimes.
> >
> > The only teas that are without tampering, I have found, are the green
> > teas that you can find in the Chinese countryside or from factories
> > that are not famous. Even the farmers in Hangzhou have been known to
> > paint their teas if the colors are not up to snuff.
> >
> > Anyway, has anyone heard things like this before? I guess it's not
> > that easy to get this information unless you have at least a basic
> > level of Chinese/Cantonese because I've only seen this in
> > Chinese-medium sources. They wouldn't want this information to escape
> > to other countries, I suppose.

Mydnight,

I buy teas from Upton and Silk Road and Jing. All these vendors declare
that they have organic teas, which usually means that they were not grown
with pesticides nor processed or "enhanced" with synthetic colors or
preservatives.

Now, are you asserting that the availability of organic teas, as defined
above, is a myth in China? I'm not suggesting that the vendors are lying to
me; I'm saying that, based on your information, the suppliers are lying to
the vendors or somehow bribing or fooling the organizations that certify
"organicness". Is this what you're suggesting?

Regards,
Dean


"Mydnight" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Recently, there has been an outcry in the media about tea factories
> adding various chemicals to nearly every type of food that one can
> consume here in China. It's especially hit headlines over in HK, where
> they actually take this very seriously. Vegetables, meats, fish,
> fruit, and various teas have been called into question about whether it
> causes more harm than good to consume.
>
> The most notable accounts of tea being tampered with comes from the
> Fujian province; the home of various WuYi Mountain teas and the famous
> Tie Guan Yin. Here in Dongguan, the locals have basically turned their
> backs on TieGuanYin completely and have switched to Pu'er. Why? As
> quoted to me by a merchant friend of mine, [translated] "Most TGY that
> people drink [here] has very little REAL TGY flavor because of how much
> chemicals are added to make it more valuable." Pu'er tea has also been
> in the news in HK because of how dirty the process is to produce the
> actual tea. The mostly were talking about Shu Pu which is fine by me
> because I only drink big-leaf Sheng now from a private source.
>
> Last night after a lengthy, 3 hour session of tea drinking, I brought
> out some decent grade Nong Xiang High Mountain (NXHM) for my Taiwanese
> friend to try. He is over 50, and most older people from Taiwan prefer
> the strong, earthy sweetness and excellent "hui gan" (residual,
> recurring flavor) that the heavily roasted tea can produce. After I
> told him what we were going to drink, he turned the tea down flat
> citing that fully roasted teas are bad for your health because they use
> charcoal in the roasting process. He then also said that nearly ALL
> Nong Xiang teas were subjected to charcoal roasting; he especially is
> afraid to drink any Dan Cong teas from Guangdong.
>
> This whole thing has saddened me quite a bit. Perhaps these years in
> China drinking good teas has been more harmful to my health then
> beneficial. The usual criticism against my argument is "oh, well I
> know where I get MY teas from; it just must be your low quality teas
> that are bad" but to be honest, all of my tea comes from before market
> sources and close friends in the industry. I drink teas that most
> Chinese don't even get to see in their lifetimes.
>
> The only teas that are without tampering, I have found, are the green
> teas that you can find in the Chinese countryside or from factories
> that are not famous. Even the farmers in Hangzhou have been known to
> paint their teas if the colors are not up to snuff.
>
> Anyway, has anyone heard things like this before? I guess it's not
> that easy to get this information unless you have at least a basic
> level of Chinese/Cantonese because I've only seen this in
> Chinese-medium sources. They wouldn't want this information to escape
> to other countries, I suppose.
>

DPM wrote:
> Mydnight,
>
> I buy teas from Upton and Silk Road and Jing. All these vendors declare
> that they have organic teas, which usually means that they were not grown
> with pesticides nor processed or "enhanced" with synthetic colors or
> preservatives.

Seems impossible to me unless I am living in a different China then
they are.

> Now, are you asserting that the availability of organic teas, as defined
> above, is a myth in China? I'm not suggesting that the vendors are lying to
> me; I'm saying that, based on your information, the suppliers are lying to
> the vendors or somehow bribing or fooling the organizations that certify
> "organicness". Is this what you're suggesting?

Organic foods are just starting to become popular in HK now. China is
also just starting to pick this up, but there is currently no
organization/governing bodies that certifies a farm organic or not.
All one would have to do would be to get a sticker that says "organic"
on it, put it on their product, and nobody could say different and
there would be no backlash even if they were found out.

To find who the culprit is exactly is extremely difficult and you have
to know a little about the flow of new tea into the market here. First
level is the farmers; you run the risk of them soaking down the crop
with stuff to keep insects from eating the raw leaves. Second level is
the factories; you run the risk of them adding coloring and chemicals
in the processing of the leaves to make the tea look better to the
wholesellers and people in market. Third level is the wholesellers at
market; you run the risk of them further tampering with the tea by
adding coloring or even adding flavoring or scent or recooking tea to
make it fresher. The final level is the vendors whom many take a sort
of no-holds barred view in how to run their shops; you run the risk of
further tampering(especially pu'er), information being withheld about
where the tea came from/what type of tea it is, price gouging, and more
customer service types of things. And, this is extremely simplified.
There are other variations as to how tea gets on the market that are
much more difficult to describe.

I am not saying that your vendors are bad. I met Jing in person once
or twice and drank tea with him. What I am saying is that the concept
of truth in China is relative. As more and more people begin to drink
tea, the more tea that the farmers/factories will try to produce;
vendors/sellers will try to sell. One way to create this output is by
not being organic. So, are you being lied to by some vendors? To be
frank, yes.

"Mydnight" > wrote in
oups.com:

> ... What I am saying is that the concept of truth in China is
> relative. As more and more people begin to drink
> tea, the more tea that the farmers/factories will try to produce;
> vendors/sellers will try to sell. One way to create this output is
> by not being organic. So, are you being lied to by some vendors? To
> be frank, yes.

I have read online tea descriptions where the vendor says something
like "these farmers are too poor to be able to afford pesticides" but
the teas are not sold as organic, which is a neat if despicable trick
-- playing on the fears of the public, implicitly inviting them to
exploit the producers.

Not to get too Marxist, the retail premium for organic produce of all
kinds is an incentive to cheat which is present at all levels of the
production-distribution chain. Not just in China, but universally. The
negative consequences for fraud, if any, are one deterrent factor; if
there really are none, then you would expect more people to do it,
regardless of culture, concepts of truth, or economic status.

Ozzy

China isn't the only country guilty of
pollution,pesticides,additives,misrepresentation. However nothing has
hit the consumer fan yet like a tea version of mad cow disease. Tea is
an agricultural crop and subject to some minimum standard such as you
see printed on boxes of Puer and more from USDA import. You can get
sick but it will probably be from bacteria which is why you should
always boil water for tea and hope pandemic bird flu poop isn't
resistant to boiling water. If you want to be absolutely sure about
organic grow it yourself.

Jim

Mydnight wrote:
> So, are you being lied to by some vendors? To be
> frank, yes.

Space Cowboy > wrote:
>China isn't the only country guilty of
>pollution,pesticides,additives,misrepresentatio n. However nothing has
>hit the consumer fan yet like a tea version of mad cow disease. Tea is
>an agricultural crop and subject to some minimum standard such as you
>see printed on boxes of Puer and more from USDA import. You can get
>sick but it will probably be from bacteria which is why you should
>always boil water for tea and hope pandemic bird flu poop isn't
>resistant to boiling water. If you want to be absolutely sure about
>organic grow it yourself.

There are a bunch of problems. First we have agricultural contamination,
from overuse of agricultural chemicals in the growing process. But then,
more seriously we have deliberate adulteration of the material after
growing.

That deliberate adulteration can include things like dyes to make the
liquor color better, glues to make the shape of the leaves better, and
all sorts of artificial flavourings to make a cheaper leaf taste like
a higher grade tea.

We had similar adulteration problems in the US once upon a time, but it
came to such a head and there was so much bad publicity that the Pure Food
and Drug Act was enacted in 1905. China is basically at the point where
the US was in 1900 or so, and there is an increasing amount of publicity
in China about adulterated food.

What is different between the US in 1900 and China in 2007 is, of course,
the fact that modern technology allows many more options to adulterate food
than were available in 1900. The whole process of making soy sauce from
discarded human hair is actually kind of ingenious if you can think about
it as an industrial process and hide your revulsion at the whole idea.

I predict that there is going to be a big backlash over food adulteration
in China soon, just like there was in the US.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...
> The whole process of making soy sauce from
> discarded human hair is actually kind of ingenious if you can think about
> it as an industrial process and hide your revulsion at the whole idea.

Damn you , Scott!
How can I get this shit out of my head now??!!

Sasha.

Ugh! I googled "soy sauce and human hair" and came up with several
discussions about this and also about other stories: fake baby milk
powder, fake meat, fake steel, fake deadly wines, fake eggs, fake snake
glands...

What amazes me is that, despite these reported incidences, the Chinese
society's memory seems so short and no industry seems to get punished
severely financially so as to force widespread reform. Is it the
Chinese mentality that fake products are a "given" in life...you just
need to be careful? So if you get suckered, it must be your own fault,
stupid.

2 decades or so ago, in mid 1980's the Austrian wine industry suffered
tremendously after it was discovered that several wineries added
diethylene glycol (a component of antifreeze) to lend a sweeter taste
to their ice wines *drumroll for the irony*. The world balked and the
industry suffered tremendous setbacks. Austrian wines are now
garnering much popularity and market share again recently, but
winemakers admit that the effect of the scandal is still felt up to
this day, Personally, I still hear and read people joke about
antifreeze whenever they talk about austrian wines. My point is,
things seem to work very differently in China. "What, your baby died
from fake baby milk? This is outrageous...Da Ma Te! Ai-ya....next
time use Nestlé stuff from Carrefour...it's French, it's safer."

Btw, a day after this thread was started, a mild article on the subject
of food in China in general surfaced in L.A. Times. "Not Much Faith in
Their Food" by Evelyn Iritani (1/23/2007)
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...,6928698.story

Phyll


On Jan 25, 9:20 am, "Alex Chaihorsky" > wrote:
> "Scott Dorsey" > wrote in ...
>
> > The whole process of making soy sauce from
> > discarded human hair is actually kind of ingenious if you can think about
> > it as an industrial process and hide your revulsion at the whole idea.Damn you , Scott!
> How can I get this shit out of my head now??!!
>
> Sasha.

"Mydnight" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> DPM wrote:
>> Mydnight,
>>
>> I buy teas from Upton and Silk Road and Jing. All these vendors declare
>> that they have organic teas, which usually means that they were not grown
>> with pesticides nor processed or "enhanced" with synthetic colors or
>> preservatives.
>
> Seems impossible to me unless I am living in a different China then
> they are.
>

So, if I stick with Japanese or Sri Lankan/Indian/Persian teas I should be
ok? Is this poisoning of the tea leaves exclusive to China?