Hello everyone,

Earthlink has not been posting new messages from
most newsgroups since December 8, so I'm between
a rock and a hard place. I read the "new tea mag"
posts through google, but I'm responding through
my usenet client server, so I *hope* this comes
through. Mike, would you e-mail to let me
know.

I read most of the new mag, having received it
awhile back. I have many criticisms, most too
obvious to mention. Here are my major concerns:

Pictures are not properly captioned, even
where the pictures are as important as or
more important than the text.

In some articles, there is much gracious and
flowery language of tea praise, but at this
point a lack of substance. A person new to
Pu'erh would learn much, an old Pu'erh hand
far less.

The paucity of advertising is a mere function
of the mag's newness; if economically
successful, you will soon see the mag full of
ads. I hope quality and quantity of text is not
compromised.

I was miffed by the tone of the oolong 5
tea review article. My miffedness reflects
my feeling about the mag in general. The
article contained a great deal of unnecessary
text. (I do *not* refer here to Guang's article.
Get good copy editors, and let them have their
way with the text. While some articles are
well written, others are amateurish and
adolescent. Some are overlength. I will
*not* be more specific.

Overall impression: Nicely laid out, in
some cases well written and informative.
The future is probably bright. (BTW, kill
the cute text over picture stuff; it's
impossible to read.)

Here is my understanding of the genesis
of the first issue: It has gone through an
experimental introductory printing, a
copy of which I've got. It will go through
a second printing aimed at a broader
Asian market, and then a third aimed
at the Americas. Between each printing,
editing and redaction will take place. So,
I hope by the time the third printing comes
out, the typos, inappropriate word
choices, syntactic and factual mistakes
that might have crept in are snipped out.
I think objectivity and agressive editing
will make all the difference. Let's just see.

Michael

Michael Plant wrote:

> Here is my understanding of the genesis
> of the first issue: It has gone through an
> experimental introductory printing, a
> copy of which I've got. It will go through
> a second printing aimed at a broader
> Asian market, and then a third aimed
> at the Americas. Between each printing,
> editing and redaction will take place. So,
> I hope by the time the third printing comes
> out, the typos, inappropriate word
> choices, syntactic and factual mistakes
> that might have crept in are snipped out.
> I think objectivity and agressive editing
> will make all the difference. Let's just see.
>
> Michael

Considering that the Chinese version is rarely error free, I find it
highly unlikely that the English version of the magazine will ever be
error free.

MarshalN
http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN

is there really that much to say about tea?

Yes, there is! I think it will surpass wine fairly soon. Think about
it, it has richer history, more varieties. It is as fun as drinking
wine and yet it is none alcoholic (think about the muslims
consumption). The ultimate taste of a pu-erh is decided not just the
breed, but also their manufacturing process. Best of all, even how to
store it can have interesting outcome. The chinese started using pu-erh
as gift (we like to bring a bottle of wine to a house dinner, don't
we?). The list can go on..... so, you think there is nothing to talk
about?

Hee


Zarky Zork wrote:
> is there really that much to say about tea?

> Yes, there is! I think it will surpass wine fairly soon.

I don't think so


Hee wrote:
> Yes, there is! I think it will surpass wine fairly soon. Think about
> it, it has richer history, more varieties. It is as fun as drinking
> wine and yet it is none alcoholic (think about the muslims
> consumption). The ultimate taste of a pu-erh is decided not just the
> breed, but also their manufacturing process. Best of all, even how to
> store it can have interesting outcome. The chinese started using pu-erh
> as gift (we like to bring a bottle of wine to a house dinner, don't
> we?). The list can go on..... so, you think there is nothing to talk
> about?
>
> Hee
>
>
> Zarky Zork wrote:
> > is there really that much to say about tea?

[Hee]
.... I think it will surpass wine fairly soon.

[Phyll]
> I don't think so

[Michael]
I think the point is academic since, given the
amount of talk and buzz in China alone regarding
tea, it's hard to imagine that tea talk hasn't over-
taken wine talk already. Of course my personal
opinion that tea far surpasses wine in subtlety,
complexity, and pure joy of life is in some quarters
arguable, but not in my house.

(I'm broadcasting through Google Groups until
my damnable service brings back usenet. Damn.
This has happened before.)

Sorry for error, Phyll. I'm new at this.

On the flip side of the coin, China is an open ground for various
vinous experimentation. The loud buzz is there, but mostly within the
industry and hasn't really reached the general consumers' radar.
International consultants -- those from France, Italy, USA -- are being
invited or hired to make wine in China and India. The expansion of
market interest in Asia, made a UK-based Decanter magazine (my favorite
wine publication) to launch a Chinese version last year, much like what
the Puerh Teapot magazine is already doing now.

Which brings to a point that I've been wondering about: I wonder if
the Decanter magazine made similar typos and error [as how the Art of
Tea mag has done] when it translated the English article to Chinese
(80% of the first issue was translated from English to Chinese).

Sorry...this is rec.food.drink.TEA


wrote:
> [Hee]
> ... I think it will surpass wine fairly soon.
>
> [Phyll]
> > I don't think so
>
> [Michael]
> I think the point is academic since, given the
> amount of talk and buzz in China alone regarding
> tea, it's hard to imagine that tea talk hasn't over-
> taken wine talk already. Of course my personal
> opinion that tea far surpasses wine in subtlety,
> complexity, and pure joy of life is in some quarters
> arguable, but not in my house.
>
> (I'm broadcasting through Google Groups until
> my damnable service brings back usenet. Damn.
> This has happened before.)
>
> Sorry for error, Phyll. I'm new at this.

Hee wrote:
> Yes, there is! I think it will surpass wine fairly soon. Think about
> it, it has richer history, more varieties. It is as fun as drinking
> wine and yet it is none alcoholic (think about the muslims
> consumption). The ultimate taste of a pu-erh is decided not just the
> breed, but also their manufacturing process. Best of all, even how to
> store it can have interesting outcome. The chinese started using pu-erh
> as gift (we like to bring a bottle of wine to a house dinner, don't
> we?). The list can go on..... so, you think there is nothing to talk
> about?

Hee, sorry to say, I'm with Phyll. I think you're trippin'. The
appeal of specialty teas has a long way to go before it gets beyond
people who (like me) are OCD enough to keep a gaiwan and several small
pots both at home and in the office. Tea and wine both produce a wide
range of flavors and experiences, but wine can be accessed simply by
pulling a cork - there is no need to sweat things like water
temperature, timing, amount of leaf, kind of pot, kind of water ...
think of the guy in 'Sideways' drinking his best bottle out of a
styrofoam cup in a fast-food restaurant.

I don't know about the richer history, either. Oolong, for instance,
is really only 200 years old. Many of the well-known vinyards in
Europe were planted by the Romans and have been in continuous
production for 2000 years. Furthermore, wine is a social lubricant and
relaxant, and tea makes people hyper. I personally appreciate a good
chazui (like the one I am having now) as much or more than being drunk
with my friends, but it was not always thus.

But, I appreciate your enthusiasm.

Alex
Trying to fine-tune my Wuyi technique

kind of reminds me of the old zen master who found a chest full of priceless
treatises on zen written hundreds of years before, and burned them.

there are some things that talking about just doesn't make better.

> kind of reminds me of the old zen master who found a chest full of priceless
> treatises on zen written hundreds of years before, and burned them.

*Phyll slaps his forehead and makes the sound of one hand clapping*


Zarky Zork wrote:
> kind of reminds me of the old zen master who found a chest full of priceless
> treatises on zen written hundreds of years before, and burned them.
>
> there are some things that talking about just doesn't make better.

snip

> Tea and wine both produce a wide
> range of flavors and experiences, but wine can be accessed simply by
> pulling a cork - there is no need to sweat things like water
> temperature, timing, amount of leaf, kind of pot, kind of water ...
> think of the guy in 'Sideways' drinking his best bottle out of a
> styrofoam cup in a fast-food restaurant.

That's just the point (or one of them): Those little
tea rituals are relaxing, and part of the experience.
They're easy, and they enrich. That's why cigarette
smoking is a filthy dirty unnecessary habit, but pipe
smoking is a sacred trust.

> I don't know about the richer history, either. Oolong, for instance,
> is really only 200 years old. Many of the well-known vinyards in
> Europe were planted by the Romans and have been in continuous
> production for 2000 years. Furthermore, wine is a social lubricant and
> relaxant, and tea makes people hyper. I personally appreciate a good
> chazui (like the one I am having now) as much or more than being drunk
> with my friends, but it was not always thus.

Tea eens are relaxing, me thinks. As for the
Romans, it's not a contest after all. I just think
tea's the thing. Swirl wine in your glass and look
at the legs: Pretentious. turn the tea cup so as
to appreciate the subtle hues: Sensitive. I have
spoken.

Michael

> But, I appreciate your enthusiasm.

I appreciate all your collective enthusiasms!

> Trying to fine-tune my Wuyi technique

It's quite a trick, in my view; getting WuYi
right is no easy task. Let us know where
you land with this, please.

Alex wrote:
> Hee wrote:
> > Yes, there is! I think it will surpass wine fairly soon. Think about
> > it, it has richer history, more varieties. It is as fun as drinking
> > wine and yet it is none alcoholic (think about the muslims
> > consumption). The ultimate taste of a pu-erh is decided not just the
> > breed, but also their manufacturing process. Best of all, even how to
> > store it can have interesting outcome. The chinese started using pu-erh
> > as gift (we like to bring a bottle of wine to a house dinner, don't
> > we?). The list can go on..... so, you think there is nothing to talk
> > about?
>
> Hee, sorry to say, I'm with Phyll. I think you're trippin'. The
> appeal of specialty teas has a long way to go before it gets beyond
> people who (like me) are OCD enough to keep a gaiwan and several small
> pots both at home and in the office. Tea and wine both produce a wide
> range of flavors and experiences, but wine can be accessed simply by
> pulling a cork - there is no need to sweat things like water
> temperature, timing, amount of leaf, kind of pot, kind of water ...
> think of the guy in 'Sideways' drinking his best bottle out of a
> styrofoam cup in a fast-food restaurant.
>
> I don't know about the richer history, either. Oolong, for instance,
> is really only 200 years old. Many of the well-known vinyards in
> Europe were planted by the Romans and have been in continuous
> production for 2000 years. Furthermore, wine is a social lubricant and
> relaxant, and tea makes people hyper. I personally appreciate a good
> chazui (like the one I am having now) as much or more than being drunk
> with my friends, but it was not always thus.
>
> But, I appreciate your enthusiasm.
>
> Alex
> Trying to fine-tune my Wuyi technique

While I'm no wine expert, something tells me that winemaking today has
very little resemblence to winemaking in Roman times. To think we are
making it in more or less the same way as 2000 years ago.... I don't
know, it will require a lot of proof which I suspect we do not have.

MarshalN
http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN

Mplant:
> tea's the thing. Swirl wine in your glass and look
> at the legs: Pretentious. turn the tea cup so as
> to appreciate the subtle hues: Sensitive. I have
> spoken.

Oh c'mon...go perform gongfu tea brewing in front of those who don't
care or understand, and they'd probably think you're a pretentious
guy who wastes water and tea leaves. Everything is a ritual developed
from the desire to enjoy a beverage fully. Yes, some folks do come
across snobbish with the swirling, sniffing and gurgling. It takes
experience and social sensitivity to perform all the wine moves with
humility. I always swirl my wine, but only look at the legs and gurgle
when I'm with other winos. Not swirling your wine is akin to
pinching your nose while drinking your tea.

MarshalN:
> While I'm no wine expert, something tells me that winemaking today has
> very little resemblence to winemaking in Roman times. To think we are
> making it in more or less the same way as 2000 years ago.... I don't
> know, it will require a lot of proof which I suspect we do not have.

Very different, indeed. We don't have to go that far back.
Trellising system is fairly new. Vines used to grow wildly off the
ground. Grapes didn't use to reach the level of ripeness that today
grapes are expected to. Every acre of vineyard didn't use to be
divided into subplots depending on sunshine, moisture, temperature,
soil, wine, etc. using a GPS tracking system and infrared satellite
images.

Phyll
http://phyllsheng.blogspot.com
www.winexiles.com


MarshalN wrote:
> Alex wrote:
> > Hee wrote:
> > > Yes, there is! I think it will surpass wine fairly soon. Think about
> > > it, it has richer history, more varieties. It is as fun as drinking
> > > wine and yet it is none alcoholic (think about the muslims
> > > consumption). The ultimate taste of a pu-erh is decided not just the
> > > breed, but also their manufacturing process. Best of all, even how to
> > > store it can have interesting outcome. The chinese started using pu-erh
> > > as gift (we like to bring a bottle of wine to a house dinner, don't
> > > we?). The list can go on..... so, you think there is nothing to talk
> > > about?
> >
> > Hee, sorry to say, I'm with Phyll. I think you're trippin'. The
> > appeal of specialty teas has a long way to go before it gets beyond
> > people who (like me) are OCD enough to keep a gaiwan and several small
> > pots both at home and in the office. Tea and wine both produce a wide
> > range of flavors and experiences, but wine can be accessed simply by
> > pulling a cork - there is no need to sweat things like water
> > temperature, timing, amount of leaf, kind of pot, kind of water ...
> > think of the guy in 'Sideways' drinking his best bottle out of a
> > styrofoam cup in a fast-food restaurant.
> >
> > I don't know about the richer history, either. Oolong, for instance,
> > is really only 200 years old. Many of the well-known vinyards in
> > Europe were planted by the Romans and have been in continuous
> > production for 2000 years. Furthermore, wine is a social lubricant and
> > relaxant, and tea makes people hyper. I personally appreciate a good
> > chazui (like the one I am having now) as much or more than being drunk
> > with my friends, but it was not always thus.
> >
> > But, I appreciate your enthusiasm.
> >
> > Alex
> > Trying to fine-tune my Wuyi technique
>
> While I'm no wine expert, something tells me that winemaking today has
> very little resemblence to winemaking in Roman times. To think we are
> making it in more or less the same way as 2000 years ago.... I don't
> know, it will require a lot of proof which I suspect we do not have.
>
> MarshalN
> http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN

Phyll wrote:
> Yes, some folks do come
> across snobbish with the swirling, sniffing and gurgling.

Especially people who start going on a long lecture on how tea making
is a spiritual experience that......(ahem)


> Very different, indeed. We don't have to go that far back.
> Trellising system is fairly new. Vines used to grow wildly off the
> ground. Grapes didn't use to reach the level of ripeness that today
> grapes are expected to. Every acre of vineyard didn't use to be
> divided into subplots depending on sunshine, moisture, temperature,
> soil, wine, etc. using a GPS tracking system and infrared satellite
> images.

Right, and I'd imagine controlling of fermentation, bottling, etc etc
in the ways we do them today are all rather recent inventions. Most
importantly, the product that we drink today is probably not much like
the wine drunk by folks 300-400 years ago, never mind 2000. I know
this is true for beers, large or small breweries alike.

MarshalN
http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN